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Author Topic: The Judgment Seat of Christ  (Read 5338 times)

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Offline larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #140 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 11:53:50 »

I think the question has been answered many times.  You just don't like the answer.  He is in control.  He, like the Father, is sovereign and all power and authority has been given Him in heaven and on earth (Matt 28:18).

The problem arises when you say something that leaves an opening for a reply, and i don't remember if i answered you, or who, and i answer it again. Let me try this.

Act 7:55  But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, (Is Jesus on His throne here?)

Rom 8:34  Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (Does Jesus do this while exercising His all power and authority?)

Eph 1:20  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Col 3:1  If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
 
In Rev 4:2 Jesus receives His own throne, and is surrounded by 24 elders, and has 4 living ones in the midst of His throne according to Rev 4:6; are you a part of either one? If not, why? I don’t think I have asked you this before.

Will you be a part of the great multitude that comes to Jesus out of great tribulation since you missed being present with Jesus when He received His own throne? It appears you missed any opportunity of being caught up to be with Christ pre-trib huh?
When do you think the tribulation begins since you believe Jesus received His own throne when He was resurrected? Since Jesus judges us while we are in these bodies, and He is seen by John after His death walking in the midst of the candlesticks (churches). (Rev 2:1). Where are we at in the scheme of things to come hereafter, and just what do you think John is to write of the viewpoint of things which are? (Rev 1:19) Will John be shown things which are, and describe them prior to describing the things which will be hereafter?

Since judgment begins at the house of God (1 Pet 4:17), and we are a part of the Church, do you think John saw Jesus walking among the churches in 95 A.D., or bringing about the things to occur hereafter we read of in Rev 4:1.

Thanks.

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #140 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 11:53:50 »

Online 4WD

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #141 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 12:39:46 »
Act 7:55  But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, (Is Jesus on His throne here?)
Does God sit?  Does God stand?  Does Jesus?  Does God have a right hand? Or a left?  What does any of that really mean?

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #141 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 12:39:46 »

Offline larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #142 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 12:47:39 »

Does God sit?  Does God stand?  Does Jesus?  Does God have a right hand? Or a left?  What does any of that really mean?

I think it's the power of God, but maybe you can run your knowledge of it by me. I believe that our Savior is acting as our meadiator in this present age of the Church, and I do not believe He has received His own throne, or will until the Lord's Day at the end of this present time. Gimme your best shot at this.


Online 4WD

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #143 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 13:14:01 »
Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Not will be given; but rather has been given.

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #143 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 13:14:01 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #144 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 14:31:58 »

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Not will be given; but rather has been given.


You are right, but has Jesus taken that all power as some suggest? What do you think of the following scripture?
Heb 2:8  Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

At this point in time, in your opinion is Jesus actually reigning as King of kings, and Lord of lords? And like I asked another brother, will you be one of the 24 elders or four living ones round about Him when He does? Do you know which churches are those two groups of one company present with Jesus when there is a throne placed in heaven for Jesus in Rev 4:2??

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #144 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 14:31:58 »



Offline lea

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #145 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 18:35:11 »

Revelation 3:
20Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in and dine with him, and he with Me. 21To the one who is victorious, I will grant the right to sit with Me on My throne, just as I overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

22He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

Offline the_sign

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #146 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 19:52:03 »
Good morning The_Sign. The word "Liturgical" means religious to my understanding, and I'm interested what you're saying began 2015 A.D. - 2016 A.D, and your reasoning behind it. Thanks.


The Holy Spirit has sent a key prophecy in the 1500's A.D. in the Roman calendar first, which then leads directly into the counting of the lunar month reckonings of Daniel 12:11 and 12:12.

http://risen-from-the-dead.forumotion.com/t102-century-iv-95#129

http://risen-from-the-dead.forumotion.com/t103-century-v-53

I witnessed the passing of one of the group of the three kings of Persia foretold in Daniel 11:2 in 2009 A.D. and I bear witness to the French prophecy which provides a direct link to that which is foretold in Daniel 12:12, and that specific 1,335th day is Ascension Sunday, May 8, 2016 A.D., which is within the 2015 A.D. - 2016 A.D. Liturgical Year.

The Liturgical Year includes the observance of when the church year begins and ends, as well as feast days within it.

Offline soterion

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #147 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 20:19:44 »
Any idea why all usurping nations aren't brought into Jesus' control, and he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power? Let's see, you're saying that Jesus has been working at that now for close to 2000 years?

I will try to answer most of your questions with this longish post. If you have any more questions, just ask.

Is Jesus on His throne at this time?

1. In Psalm 110, Jesus is to sit at God's right hand (v.1), He is to rule until His enemies are made His footstool (v.1), His scepter will be stretched over Zion as He rules in the midst of His enemies (v.2), the people will volunteer in the day of His power (v.3), He will be a priest during this rule (v.4), He will shatter kings and judge the nations, etc. while at God's right hand (vv.5-7).

2. In Psalm 2, Jesus is to be opposed by the rulers (vv.1-3), God in heaven scoffs at their attempts to stop His plan (vv.4-5), God sets up Jesus as King on Zion (vv.6-7), the King is given everything as His possession (v.8), the King will oppose His enemies with a rod of iron (v.9), the people are encouraged to worship the King and to take refuge in Him (vv.10-12).

3. Acts 2:22-36 and 4:24-28 and Hebrews 1:5 & 13 all quote from these two Psalms to describe their having already been fulfilled in Christ.

4. In Psalm 16:8-11, David prophesies of his descendant who will be resurrected to sit on his throne, in fulfillment of the prophecy given in 2 Samuel 7:12-17, according to Peter in Acts 2:22-36. Peter is clear that Jesus has fulfilled these prophecies by His resurrection and ascension to the throne of David. Jesus now exercises that authority over the people of God as King and High Priest.

5. If Christ is presently High Priest, and He is, then He is now seated on David's throne over His kingdom as prophesied and promised. Even Zechariah 6:12-13 describes the fact that the Messiah will rule on the throne in the capacity of both King and Priest. Christ's throne and His priesthood go together and are inseparable.

6. In 1 Corinthians 15:23-28, Christ is to rule until His enemies are made a footstool for His feet. The last enemy is death. When He has abolished all of His enemies, He will deliver the kingdom to God in heaven. Compare your Hebrews 2:8 reference to 1 Corinthians 15:23-28. Christ is currently ruling with all authority. The last enemy to be subjected is death. When He has subjected death and the resurrection of all takes place, then it is the end and He will subject Himself to the One who gave Him all rule and authority.

We have a promise to sit the Messiah on the throne of David, we have David anticipating this and writing of the resurrection of the Messiah and His consequent rule from heaven until His enemies are all conquered, and we have Paul writing that Jesus will reign until His enemies are all conquered at which time He will return to deliver the kingdom up to the Father.

If you acknowledge Jesus is now High Priest, and if you acknowledge that He is now at the right hand of God, then you have to accept the rest of what the Psalms are saying about Him and His rule.

Part of the problem may be with understanding what is meant by the word “throne.” Is it supposed to be defined as a physical chair? No, the throne is a term that refers to the authority over the kingdom. Compare this to Matthew 23:1. The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses. Jesus was not referring to a physical chair, but rather to that position of authority.

Jesus does not have to be described as “sitting” in order to be described as King on His throne. He can be described as standing, walking, whatever. The point is that He has the authority as King and Priest. As High Priest He mediates and as King He rules. Jesus has been doing these since His resurrection and ascension into heaven.

Offline soterion

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #148 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 20:28:04 »
Just when do you suppose Jesus will take that "All power given Him in heaven and earth" of Mt 28:18, and begin "putting down all rule and all authority and power" of 1 Cor 15:24. Will the teaching to the nations dubbed the Great Commission be done during the millennium?

Aren't the instructions for this present time those of Mark 16:15 ? And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature, and it was done? Rom 10:18  But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.


Well, you just quoted Romans 10:18 that says "all the earth," and "the ends of the world" have heard. Here are two more passages:

Romans 16:26.
but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith:

Colossians 1:23.
if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister.

The gospel went to all nations and to all creation under heaven in the midst of the first century.

Offline soterion

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #149 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 20:45:55 »
Christ is to rule in the midst of His enemies.

That implies the existence of enemies, and therefore the works of those enemies, during Christ's rule. The passage does not say that His enemies will be removed and then He will rule. In fact, Psalm 110 and 1 Corinthians 15:24-26 tells us that He will rule until He has completely subdued all of His enemies. Then He will deliver the kingdom up to God.

The enemies Christ rules in the midst of are described in Ephesians 6:12. To the extent that we should not define the kingdom of God as being physical and earthly, that is the extent that we should not define our and Christ's enemies as -only- physical and earthly.

The argument that Christ is not ruling as King because He hasn't apparently, or visibly, put down all rule and authority and power is, to me, a mistaken understanding of the scriptures. In addition, it basically says God has never ruled the earth and all who are on it. If we can acknowledge together that God has always been in control, then why not acknowledge that Christ rules now?

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #150 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 21:19:54 »
larry2  -  Just sticking in my two cents here.  You said above that you DO believe that the Savior is currently acting as our mediator in this present age of the church, but that you DON'T believe He has received His own throne yet, and won't until the end of this present time.  To prove this, you are using the Hebrews 2:8 text that you believe says Christ has not got all things put under Him yet. 

There is something wrong with both of these ideas.  In the first place, Christ's position as acting mediator and high priest for us *IS* HIS THRONE...because His throne is the MERCY-SEAT in heaven's temple, where his role as high priest was established the same day He resurrected and ascended to the Father that first day of the week.  Christ already sitting on this mercy-seat throne in heaven as our high priest was a doctrine taught by Peter on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:29-36).  As of that time, Jesus had already been made "Lord and Christ".  All power was already given unto Him at His resurrection and ascension that same day, as Christ plainly told his disciples in the Matthew 28:18 passage.   

As for the Hebrews 2:8 text...this is NOT describing Jesus, without yet having all things put under him.  It is describing the condition of the SAINTS OF GOD at the time Hebrews was written, compared to Adam and Eve's condition, who were originally created to have dominion over all the world and every living thing in it, and told to subdue it (Gen. 1:28).  When this couple yielded obedience to Satan's council to disobey their Creator, they became "servants to sin" (Rom 6:16-17).  Their fallen, degraded status gave Satan the role of "the god of this world".  To help counter Satan's evil influence in this world, as well as that of the evil angels under his control, God set up a "divine council" of righteous angels to operate in this world.  This was in the days of Peleg, when the nations were divided up according to the number of the angels of God (Deut. 32:8).  The righteous angels' delegated task was to implement God's plans for the nations, and to counter the influence of the evil angels operating within the nations of the world.  We see evidences of this conflict in Daniel, between the evil and righteous members of the angelic world opposing each other at that time.

God did not intend this supervision of mankind and the nations by the angelic "divine council" to last forever, though.  He intended to rid this planet of all demonic evil by the close of AD 70.  To accomplish this purpose, God's incarnate Son died and provided the means, so that eventually, "through death, he might DESTROY him that had the power of death, that is, the devil" (Hebrews 2:14), thus relieving mankind of Satan's oppressive, evil influence.  Once this was accomplished by the end of the Old Covenant days, the supervision of the nations by the righteous, angelic "divine council" was no longer a necessity.  Their "job description" changed, as of the close of AD 70.  Instead of the angels acting as God's "divine council" representatives on earth, every saint who had the Holy Spirit residing within them was given the task of "going into all the world to preach the gospel to every creature".  The commission God had given the divine council back in the Old Testament days to affect the nations for good became the "Great Commission" for all the saints of God to participate in, under the New Covenant.   

As of the time Hebrews was written, the saints were still under subjection to the oversight of the divine council of the righteous angelic world, as well as being oppressed still by demonic evil .  For the saints of God in Hebrews 2:8, their current condition at that time was this: "But NOW we see NOT YET all things put under him" (not yet put under the saints' jurisdiction, that is).  The soon-to-come shift in this state of affairs was predicted by Hebrews 2:5: "For unto the angels hath he NOT put in subjection THE WORLD TO COME (the habitable world), whereof we speak."  Hebrews chapter 1:10-12 had just been speaking about the New Heavens and the New Earth conditions which were coming after the Old Covenant would be shaken and all the physical elements of it removed.   In this New Heaven New Earth condition for the whole habitable world, angels would no longer be acting in a supervisory capacity anymore within the nations: instead, as Daniel 7:22, 27 said, the time would come on when the saints would "possess the kingdom" (vicariously, they would be "kings and priests" through their relationship to Jesus Christ their great high priest, sitting on heaven's throne of the mercy-seat.

Jesus was already "CROWNED with glory and honor" in the view of the Hebrews saints, because it says that "WE SEE JESUS...*CROWNED* with glory and honor" already in that Heb. 2:9.  He was already sitting on the "throne of His glory".  It had been a done deal ever since His resurrection day when He ascended to the Father that first time.

Offline larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #151 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 02:17:02 »
Dear brethren Solterion & 3 Resurrections.

Thanks for your replies. I will certainly go back into study of Heb 2:8 as pertaining to Jesus being spoken here as the captain of our salvation, coming as a son of man, and bringing many sons to glory.

As pertaining to the book of Revelation, I do not see the evidence in scripture, or result of deliverance at this point of the things hereafter of Rev 4:1. I do not see the taking to Himself the 24 elders and 4 living ones of Rev 4:4 & rev 4:6 at this present time. I do read the prophesy of Jesus that says He will receive His own throne in Rev 4:2 on the Lord’s Day.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

Offline soterion

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #152 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 10:56:22 »

 I do read the prophesy of Jesus that says He will receive His own throne in Rev 4:2 on the Lord’s Day.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.
[/size]

Nothing in Revelation 4:2 says that Jesus is receiving His own throne or that this is the Lord's Day. Nothing.

Here are some thoughts that might help us to understand the vision a bit better:

1. Where it says "a throne was standing in heaven," the phrase "was standing" is in the imperfect tense. The imperfect tense refers to past continuous actions. In other words, John saw a throne that had already been standing in heaven. It didn't just start "standing" there, it had been standing there for whatever length of time prior to John seeing it.

2. Where it says "and One sitting on the throne," the word "sitting" is a present participle. The present participle simply refers to continuous, ongoing, or repeated action, without necessarily telling us the time frame of the action except in relation to the main verb in the context. In other words, John saw One sitting on the throne. He had been sitting on it to the extent that the throne had been standing.

The way I have to read Rev 4:2 is that John saw something that had already been going on prior to his receiving the vision. There is a throne in heaven and God sits on it, and John was given to see it in his vision. As far as I am concerned, God has always been sitting on His throne and ruling His creation throughout all history. John didn't see anything "beginning" in that verse.

Oh and, by the way, that's not Jesus on the throne. ::smile::

Offline larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #153 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 12:02:16 »

Nothing in Revelation 4:2 says that Jesus is receiving His own throne or that this is the Lord's Day. Nothing.

Here are some thoughts that might help us to understand the vision a bit better:

1. Where it says "a throne was standing in heaven," the phrase "was standing" is in the imperfect tense. The imperfect tense refers to past continuous actions. In other words, John saw a throne that had already been standing in heaven. It didn't just start "standing" there, it had been standing there for whatever length of time prior to John seeing it.

2. Where it says "and One sitting on the throne," the word "sitting" is a present participle. The present participle simply refers to continuous, ongoing, or repeated action, without necessarily telling us the time frame of the action except in relation to the main verb in the context. In other words, John saw One sitting on the throne. He had been sitting on it to the extent that the throne had been standing.

The way I have to read Rev 4:2 is that John saw something that had already been going on prior to his receiving the vision. There is a throne in heaven and God sits on it, and John was given to see it in his vision. As far as I am concerned, God has always been sitting on His throne and ruling His creation throughout all history. John didn't see anything "beginning" in that verse.

Oh and, by the way, that's not Jesus on the throne.
::smile::

Then I reckon I'm glad I don't read the bible as you do. ::smile::

Rev 4:8  And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev 4:11  Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

Joh 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Col 1:15  Who is the image of the invisible God (Is this Jesus?), the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And you say that the One sitting on the throne in Rev 4:2 isn't Jesus?
  ::shrug::

Offline soterion

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #154 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 12:53:02 »

And you say that the One sitting on the throne in Rev 4:2 isn't Jesus? [/size]  ::shrug::

That's exactly right.

Try this:

1. Read Revelation chapters 4 and 5 in one sitting.
2. Identify who is the Lamb

You should be able to see that the Lamb and the One on the throne in 5:4-7 are two different persons. You should also be able to tell from the straight reading of the two chapters that the One sitting on the throne in 5:7 is the same One in 4:2. Of course, it should be easy to see that the Lamb is not sitting on the throne.

The One sitting on the throne in 4:2 and 5:7 has a different identity from the Lamb. If you acknowledge that the Lamb is Jesus, then the One sitting on the throne cannot be Jesus.

So, who could that One be who is sitting on the throne in chapters 4 and 5? The Father, of course. ::smile::

Offline larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #155 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 15:40:09 »

Try this:

1. Read Revelation chapters 4 and 5 in one sitting.
2. Identify who is the Lamb

You should be able to see that the Lamb and the One on the throne in 5:4-7 are two different persons. You should also be able to tell from the straight reading of the two chapters that the One sitting on the throne in 5:7 is the same One in 4:2. Of course, it should be easy to see that the Lamb is not sitting on the throne.

The One sitting on the throne in 4:2 and 5:7 has a different identity from the Lamb. If you acknowledge that the Lamb is Jesus, then the One sitting on the throne cannot be Jesus.

So, who could that One be who is sitting on the throne in chapters 4 and 5? The Father, of course.
::smile::

What throne do you suspect Jesus to ever have, and where will it be? Is there but one throne in heaven?

Rev 4:4  And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:6  And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

Rev 5:6  And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Aren't these two ranks of believers those Jesus comes out of to go to His Father's throne in Rev 5:7?

Rev 5:7  And he (Jesus) came and took the book out of the right hand of him (Our Father) that sat upon the throne. Jesus goes from His newly acquired throne of Rev 4:2 to our Father’s throne in Rev 5:7.

Are you a part of either the 24 elders of Rev 4:4, or 4 living ones of Rev 4:6 if there are special saints caught up prior to the tribulation? There used to be a teaching “Left behind,” is that you if all this has already occurred?

Are these following scriptures uttered by our Lord Jesus?
Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 1:11  Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last:
Rev 1:18  I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Offline soterion

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #156 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 17:28:14 »
What throne do you suspect Jesus to ever have, and where will it be? Is there but one throne in heaven?



http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-judgment-seat-of-christ-99153/msg1055102241/#msg1055102241

Quote

Rev 4:4  And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Rev 4:6  And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

Rev 5:6  And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
Aren't these two ranks of believers those Jesus comes out of to go to His Father's throne in Rev 5:7?

Rev 5:7  And he (Jesus) came and took the book out of the right hand of him (Our Father) that sat upon the throne. Jesus goes from His newly acquired throne of Rev 4:2 to our Father’s throne in Rev 5:7.



This is why you need to read chapters 4 and 5 straight through. You will see that there is no break in the vision, and that the One sitting on the throne in 4:2 remains on the throne throughout the two chapters. Jesus shows up in 5:6-7 in this vision.

Quote

Jesus goes from His newly acquired throne of Rev 4:2...



The Greek says otherwise:

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-judgment-seat-of-christ-99153/msg1055102317/#msg1055102317

Offline larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #157 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 18:14:16 »
Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Not will be given; but rather has been given.


That's right. Can you list the portions of Revelation after Rev 4:1 concerning the hereafter that Jesus has began?

Offline larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #158 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 18:19:53 »
That's exactly right.

Try this:

1. Read Revelation chapters 4 and 5 in one sitting.
2. Identify who is the Lamb

You should be able to see that the Lamb and the One on the throne in 5:4-7 are two different persons. You should also be able to tell from the straight reading of the two chapters that the One sitting on the throne in 5:7 is the same One in 4:2. Of course, it should be easy to see that the Lamb is not sitting on the throne.

The One sitting on the throne in 4:2 and 5:7 has a different identity from the Lamb. If you acknowledge that the Lamb is Jesus, then the One sitting on the throne cannot be Jesus.

So, who could that One be who is sitting on the throne in chapters 4 and 5? The Father, of course.
::smile::

I reckon we'll just have to agree if you can to disagree.

Offline soterion

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #159 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 19:20:58 »
I reckon we'll just have to agree if you can to disagree.

Of course. ::smile::

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #160 on: Sat May 12, 2018 - 06:41:15 »
That's right. Can you list the portions of Revelation after Rev 4:1 concerning the hereafter that Jesus has began?
I don't understand the question.

Offline lea

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #161 on: Sat May 12, 2018 - 08:48:02 »

 After the Jesus (the slain Lamb) had the authority to open the seals, scripture tells us it must all happen soon.
Jesus "finished" it too.  ::clappingoverhead::

Offline larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #162 on: Sat May 12, 2018 - 10:24:14 »

Mat 28:18  And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Not will be given; but rather has been given.



That's right. Can you list the portions of Revelation after Rev 4:1 concerning the hereafter that Jesus has began?


I don't understand the question.


In other words, my understanding of your end times series of events is that Jesus is already on His throne ever since His resurrection. If I’m wrong I apologize.

I responded with the following post URL concerning Jesus having not taken that all power and exercised. When He actually takes it in the hereafter of Rev 4:1, we’ll see His role as King of kings, and all authority and power being put down. In the present view of what’s going on now is Jesus walking among the candlesticks judging the churches.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-judgment-seat-of-christ-99153/msg1055102214/#msg1055102214

If you have a different view, please let me hear it.  Thanks


Offline Amo

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #163 on: Sat May 12, 2018 - 11:07:17 »
Matthew 12
" 28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. 29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house."
Mark3
"27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house."
John 12
28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. 30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. 31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

I believe Jesus.


Why I said:
Are you saying this is not so?

You believe what Jesus said that agrees with your present point I know, but apparently ignore that which He said which does not support the same.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You are denial of the above testimony of Jesus Christ. Satan cannot be bound from tempting the world, and make war with Christ's own and deceive the entire world at the same time. Christ defeated Satan at the cross, but the war between truth and deception continues until the end. All must decide concerning the same.

Online 4WD

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #164 on: Sat May 12, 2018 - 11:24:42 »
In other words, my understanding of your end times series of events is that Jesus is already on His throne ever since His resurrection. If I’m wrong I apologize.
No, since His ascension (Acts 2:32-36).

Offline larry2

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Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #165 on: Sat May 12, 2018 - 12:32:04 »

My understanding of your end times series of events is that Jesus is already on His throne ever since His resurrection.



No, since His ascension (Acts 2:32-36).

And you want to debate the words resurrection, raised, and ascended?

Act 2:32  This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35  Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

Thanks anyway .


 

     
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