GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: The Judgment Seat of Christ  (Read 5332 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 395
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #70 on: Sun Apr 15, 2018 - 21:42:30 »
lea  -  Ditto, ditto, ditto. 

I would also bring up the very same texts that prove that the judgment seat of Christ was an event that occurred at the close of those final days involving the fall of Jerusalem.    The predictions of imminence for this event are present in almost every book of the New Testament. 

These texts that you have listed are nothing less than a reflection of the same promise that Christ gave in Matthew 16:27-28: "For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and then He shall reward every man according to his works" (just as stated about the judgment seat of Christ in II Cor. 5:10).  "Verily I say unto you, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."  This of necessity had to occur within the natural lifespan of some of those Christ was speaking to at that moment.  In other words, this particular judgment seat event is long past. 

However, since "we must ALL appear before the judgment seat of Christ...", then this universal requirement in II Cor. 5:10 and Romans 14:10 for ALL mankind to appear would necessarily require that another resurrection and judgment must occur at the close of human history, at a third coming of Christ.  A third coming of Christ is the only way to reconcile the truths found in all these scriptures above.

I would have just a couple slight variations of opinion from your comment.  It was DURING (not after) the 3 1/2 years of the Zealots treading Jerusalem underfoot that the "tenth of the city" fell in the earthquake, and the seven thousand men were killed during the Idumean attack on Jerusalem dated around AD 68.  This was when the two witnesses, the two former high priests Joshua ben Gamaliel and Ananus, were slain in the streets of Jerusalem and their stripped bodies left unburied.  An actual earthquake did occur in Jerusalem that night of the violent storm.  The time span from AD 68 until AD 70 still qualifies as "quickly" following after this earthquake, though, as you have said.

One more thing: it was more than just A SINGLE kingdom that was given to Christ in the Revelation 11:15 verse.  The YLT and KJV translations of this verse claim that it is PLURAL KINGDOMS that were given to Christ then.  I take this to mean that all the demonic powers of the "divine council" were dissolved which had held sway in every one of the nations of the world until that time.  With the devil and his angels thrown into the Lake of Fire that was AD 70 Jerusalem's second death, this was the eradication of demonic evil from the world, and their influence within the nations as evil, fallen members of the divine council.  God destroyed them all, as Isaiah 24 and 27 had long ago predicted that God would do by the end of the siege of Jerusalem. 

This destruction in AD 70 Jerusalem of all the evil, fallen members of the divine council which had exercised deception within the nations will explain just how Daniel's statue made of different metals could SIMULTANEOUSLY all be crushed into dust at the same time, with the wind carrying the dust away, so that it would be found no more.  We know that the Roman empire continued AFTER the AD 70 era, and that the empires of Babylon, the Medes and Persians, and the Greeks had all fallen long BEFORE the AD 70 era.  So it couldn't be those empires themselves that were crushed to dust simultaneously; it had to be the demonic power structure of the divine council that had been working within those nations all along that was crushed by the stone cut without hands. 

We remember that Satan had once boasted to Christ during the 40 days' wilderness temptation that the KINGDOMS (plural) of this world had been given unto him, and that he could give them to whomever he wished (Luke 4:5-7).  These are the KINGDOMS (plural) that became Christ's, once Satan and his angels were destroyed in the Lake of Fire during the AD 70 siege of Jerusalem.   

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #70 on: Sun Apr 15, 2018 - 21:42:30 »

Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5567
  • Manna: 457
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #71 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 12:04:19 »
3 Resurrections said:

>>>once Satan and his angels were destroyed in the Lake of Fire during the AD 70 siege of Jerusalem. <<< 

Satan has not been "destroyed" in the Lake of Fire in 70 AD---I have no idea where you get that idea.  Satan WILL BE bound for
a thousand years in the future--He is presently consigned to this earth and is filled with rage. That is why he attempted to destroy the Jewish
people during WW2---his hate for God's people knows no bounds.  Your theology is really all over the place.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #71 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 12:04:19 »

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6735
  • Manna: 203
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #72 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 13:22:18 »
Satan is bound now. 

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 395
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #73 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 17:14:23 »
fish153  -  Where did I get this idea?  Simple.  And I should hope that my theology would be from "all over the place".  I attempt to base my theology on the ENTIRE body of scripture as a homogenous whole - not a piece here and there taken out of context.

Satan was bound for a literal thousand years that ENDED with the "First Resurrection".  That's a plain fact from Revelation 20:5.

The "First Resurrection" event was when Christ arose from the dead as the FIRST-FRUITS, along with the 144,000 other First-fruits.  That's also a plain fact, since scripture goes to great pains to describe Christ as the "FIRST-begotten from among the dead", the "FIRST-born", and the "FIRST-fruits".  First means first.  There is, and can be, ONLY ONE "First Resurrection" event.  Since the "First Resurrection" event has been history ever since AD 33, then the millennium which ENDED when the "First Resurrection" occurred is ALSO history.  The literal thousand-year millennium has been over since AD 33.

Satan was loosed for a "short time" and a "little season" following the "First Resurrection" in AD 33.  Also a plain fact from Revelation 20:3. 

That "short time" (Rev. 12:12) and "LITTLE season" (Rev. 20:3) when Satan was loosed from being bound is naturally shorter than a "LONG season" which scripture has defined as a duration of 40 years in length for the wilderness wanderings of the nation of Israel after leaving Egypt.   Also a plain fact from Joshua 24:7 ("...ye dwelt in the wilderness a LONG SEASON.")

Therefore, Satan's "little season" of being loosed (less than 40 years after the "First Resurrection" of Christ and the 144,000 First-fruits) lasted only until he and his evil angels were imprisoned in Jerusalem for the duration of the AD 66-AD 70 siege.  A fact from Revelation 18:2.  "EVERY UNCLEAN SPIRIT" - no exceptions - was imprisoned in Jerusalem at that time - a "Great Tribulation" indeed for the inhabitants of Jerusalem during those years.  There has never been worse tribulation than this either before or since then; to have the entire demonic world present in one city for that length of time in order to possess individuals and to torment them.

Isaiah 24 prophesied that "after many days" of being gathered and imprisoned, this host of evil angels and the "kings of the earth" (all those ex-high priests of Israel) would all be "found wanting".  That means GONE, in Bible lingo.  Not just "bound", as 4WD is suggesting, but GONE.   The Levitical high priesthood has indeed been gone since AD 70.  Why would the case be any different if God said that this host of evil angels would also be gone at the same time as the high priests?

In addition, "in THAT DAY", Satan the dragon, that crooked serpent, would be SLAIN by God, according to Isaiah 27:1, just after the resurrection described in Isaiah 26:19-21.  A SLAIN dragon and serpent means a DEAD dragon and serpent.  If you happen to have read my comment #18 in the post called "The Cherub that Guarded the Garden, in Eden", I talked about Satan who was the "prince of Tyre" - the anointed cherub that had been in Eden.  God promised to destroy this anointed cherub so that "...NEVER SHALT THOU BE ANY MORE" after this cherub had been turned into ashes.

Satan was indeed destroyed along with his angels in the AD 70 Lake of Fire that was Jerusalem's "Second Death". 

The conditions of the Jewish holocaust which you mention were not instigated by Satan or any other demonic entity.  Those horrific actions, as well as any other genocides perpetrated upon various people groups throughout history, spring solely from the degenerate desires that lie within the hearts of all mankind (Matt 15:19-20b - "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man..." 

You are disregarding the evil that man can dream up on his own.  After the fall, humanity has never been dependent upon the evil angels or Satan to initiate our evil actions.  A fallen Adam sired fallen children.  One kind will always beget after its own kind - also a fact from Job 14:4.  "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?  Not one."

Satan at one time WAS consigned to this earth when he was cast out of heaven to the earth after Christ's ascension in AD 33  (John 12:31 and 14:30).  He WAS loosed for his "short time" then, and WAS filled with great rage at that time.   He WAS walking around like a raging lion during that "little season" after the "First Resurrection" in AD 33, but that less-than-40-years little season of his is looooong gone since AD 70.  You are being spooked by a character that has long since been turned into ashes, according to the fate God decreed for him in Ezekiel 28:17-19 and Isaiah 27:1.

As God promised in numerous other places in scripture, we have been delivered from this major enemy of ours at the time God destined for this.  The remaining enemy we now have to contend with is the one we carry within us as fallen children of Adam's race.  It's actually a more dangerous enemy than Satan or demons could ever have been, because we underestimate our own tendency to wickedness and rebellion. 

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #73 on: Mon Apr 16, 2018 - 17:14:23 »

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4881
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #74 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 03:37:15 »
Satan is bound now.
OR, he could be loosed! Yes, he was bound at the cross and shall be loosed for a little season at the end of this world, just before the coming of Jesus Christ.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #74 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 03:37:15 »



Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4881
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #75 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 03:45:19 »
not a piece here and there taken out of context.
Like you have done in your post. It would take too much of my time today to even attempt to correct what you have posted. We went over this with you a few months ago, but if time allows then maybe I will do so again, or find the thread where we discuss this.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6735
  • Manna: 203
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #76 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 06:38:45 »
OR, he could be loosed! Yes, he was bound at the cross and shall be loosed for a little season at the end of this world, just before the coming of Jesus Christ.
Indeed!!  But, personally, I don't believe we are at that stage yet.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6735
  • Manna: 203
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #77 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 06:43:12 »
fish153  -  Where did I get this idea?  Simple.  And I should hope that my theology would be from "all over the place".  I attempt to base my theology on the ENTIRE body of scripture as a homogenous whole - not a piece here and there taken out of context.

Satan was bound for a literal thousand years that ENDED with the "First Resurrection".  That's a plain fact from Revelation 20:5.

The "First Resurrection" event was when Christ arose from the dead as the FIRST-FRUITS, along with the 144,000 other First-fruits.  That's also a plain fact, since scripture goes to great pains to describe Christ as the "FIRST-begotten from among the dead", the "FIRST-born", and the "FIRST-fruits".  First means first.  There is, and can be, ONLY ONE "First Resurrection" event.  Since the "First Resurrection" event has been history ever since AD 33, then the millennium which ENDED when the "First Resurrection" occurred is ALSO history.  The literal thousand-year millennium has been over since AD 33.

Satan was loosed for a "short time" and a "little season" following the "First Resurrection" in AD 33.  Also a plain fact from Revelation 20:3. 

That "short time" (Rev. 12:12) and "LITTLE season" (Rev. 20:3) when Satan was loosed from being bound is naturally shorter than a "LONG season" which scripture has defined as a duration of 40 years in length for the wilderness wanderings of the nation of Israel after leaving Egypt.   Also a plain fact from Joshua 24:7 ("...ye dwelt in the wilderness a LONG SEASON.")

Therefore, Satan's "little season" of being loosed (less than 40 years after the "First Resurrection" of Christ and the 144,000 First-fruits) lasted only until he and his evil angels were imprisoned in Jerusalem for the duration of the AD 66-AD 70 siege.  A fact from Revelation 18:2.  "EVERY UNCLEAN SPIRIT" - no exceptions - was imprisoned in Jerusalem at that time - a "Great Tribulation" indeed for the inhabitants of Jerusalem during those years.  There has never been worse tribulation than this either before or since then; to have the entire demonic world present in one city for that length of time in order to possess individuals and to torment them.

Isaiah 24 prophesied that "after many days" of being gathered and imprisoned, this host of evil angels and the "kings of the earth" (all those ex-high priests of Israel) would all be "found wanting".  That means GONE, in Bible lingo.  Not just "bound", as 4WD is suggesting, but GONE.   The Levitical high priesthood has indeed been gone since AD 70.  Why would the case be any different if God said that this host of evil angels would also be gone at the same time as the high priests?

In addition, "in THAT DAY", Satan the dragon, that crooked serpent, would be SLAIN by God, according to Isaiah 27:1, just after the resurrection described in Isaiah 26:19-21.  A SLAIN dragon and serpent means a DEAD dragon and serpent.  If you happen to have read my comment #18 in the post called "The Cherub that Guarded the Garden, in Eden", I talked about Satan who was the "prince of Tyre" - the anointed cherub that had been in Eden.  God promised to destroy this anointed cherub so that "...NEVER SHALT THOU BE ANY MORE" after this cherub had been turned into ashes.

Satan was indeed destroyed along with his angels in the AD 70 Lake of Fire that was Jerusalem's "Second Death". 

The conditions of the Jewish holocaust which you mention were not instigated by Satan or any other demonic entity.  Those horrific actions, as well as any other genocides perpetrated upon various people groups throughout history, spring solely from the degenerate desires that lie within the hearts of all mankind (Matt 15:19-20b - "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man..." 

You are disregarding the evil that man can dream up on his own.  After the fall, humanity has never been dependent upon the evil angels or Satan to initiate our evil actions.  A fallen Adam sired fallen children.  One kind will always beget after its own kind - also a fact from Job 14:4.  "Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?  Not one."

Satan at one time WAS consigned to this earth when he was cast out of heaven to the earth after Christ's ascension in AD 33  (John 12:31 and 14:30).  He WAS loosed for his "short time" then, and WAS filled with great rage at that time.   He WAS walking around like a raging lion during that "little season" after the "First Resurrection" in AD 33, but that less-than-40-years little season of his is looooong gone since AD 70.  You are being spooked by a character that has long since been turned into ashes, according to the fate God decreed for him in Ezekiel 28:17-19 and Isaiah 27:1.

As God promised in numerous other places in scripture, we have been delivered from this major enemy of ours at the time God destined for this.  The remaining enemy we now have to contend with is the one we carry within us as fallen children of Adam's race.  It's actually a more dangerous enemy than Satan or demons could ever have been, because we underestimate our own tendency to wickedness and rebellion.

That has to be the most laughable, unintelligent and nonsensical view of history ever to be presented anywhere by anyone.

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 395
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #78 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 07:28:31 »
4WD  -  I appreciate that you are unapologetically bold in your comments, and you're welcome to your own opinion, of course.  But I should also say that what you have offered is the purest form of an ad hominem argument.  Have you nothing of substance to offer that would counter the references I have linked together above, and the interpretation I have laid out?  I know I usually present a lot of material at once, but try bringing up just one point to refute, using a unified list of scriptures to do so - not simply tradition that many of us were steeped in from childhood on this subject.

It never ceases to amaze me how fiercely people wish to defend the CURRENT existence of Satan and his minions in this world.  It's as if I had banned a beloved father from attending a family reunion.  A true "Berean" of scripture would receive this prospect of the world being purged of demonic influence "with all joy", and then go plunge into scripture themselves to diligently prove me right or wrong according to the words of God.

Just a suggestion...   

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 395
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #79 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 07:52:16 »
RB  -  I, too, am borrowing time from a business workload to write.  Got to keep peanut butter on the table, though. 

I do recall when we discussed the definition of the "First Resurrection", if that is what you are referring to.  If I remember correctly, you simultaneously agreed that Christ WAS the "First Resurrection", but then you also stated that this singular event can't really be put on a timeline.  In this way, you attempted to deny that Revelation dates the millennium's END from the day of that "First Resurrection".   Can't agree with you there, brother.  I think Revelation is pretty plain in that regard.  In brief, as I see Revelation presenting it, "The millennium ENDED when Christ ASCENDED, and the devil DESCENDED".  Satan was not BOUND at the cross, but was LOOSED to wreak havoc in the world after Christ's first ascension on resurrection day.

But if we go into a full-scale discussion of that millennium here, we would drift too far from the OP subject of the judgment seat of Christ...

Offline soterion

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3731
  • Manna: 136
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #80 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 08:15:58 »
fish153  -  Where did I get this idea?  Simple.  And I should hope that my theology would be from "all over the place".  I attempt to base my theology on the ENTIRE body of scripture as a homogenous whole - not a piece here and there taken out of context.

Satan was bound for a literal thousand years that ENDED with the "First Resurrection".  That's a plain fact from Revelation 20:5.


When looking at any vision John is writing in Revelation, we should look at the elements, whether events, objects, persons, or time statements, and realize we are reading figures or symbols. You are looking for the thousand years to be literal when you should be looking for what that time span represents. Just like we should look for what the pit and the chains represent, since they are not literal physical objects.

Offline soterion

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3731
  • Manna: 136
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #81 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 08:22:14 »
OR, he could be loosed! Yes, he was bound at the cross and shall be loosed for a little season at the end of this world, just before the coming of Jesus Christ.

I have to place the binding of Satan in Rev 20 to coincide with the end of the beast and false prophet at the end of chapter 19, meaning that the binding of Satan was the end of the persecution of the church by the beast.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6735
  • Manna: 203
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #82 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 09:04:13 »
But I should also say that what you have offered is the purest form of an ad hominem argument.  Have you nothing of substance to offer that would counter the references I have linked together above, and the interpretation I have laid out?
Just a suggestion...   
That was not an ad hominem argument.  I did not attack you.  I attacked the "laughable, unintelligent and nonsensical view of history" that you present. 

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6735
  • Manna: 203
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #83 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 09:07:11 »
I have to place the binding of Satan in Rev 20 to coincide with the end of the beast and false prophet at the end of chapter 19, meaning that the binding of Satan was the end of the persecution of the church by the beast.
A long post that most probably will not bother to read.  Oh well.....

The Binding of Satan

The first three verses of Revelation 20 describes an event that surely sends a thrill through every Christian’s heart; the binding of Satan.  The text says,

   1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

My Strong conviction is that Jesus bound the devil when he came the first time.  Many find it extremely difficult to accept this idea, mainly because they hear the words ”binding of Satan” and formulate their own idea of what this must mean before they examine the Biblical data.  If Satan is bound, they think, then there should not be any sin or even temptation on the earth.  But sin obviously was not eliminated by Christ’s first coming and is still abundant on the earth today.  Would one not have to be blind to think that Satan is bound in times like these?

The key to understanding the binding of Satan is to pay close attention to what the Bible actually says about it, not only in Rev 20:1-3 but elsewhere in the NT as well.  Regarding the latter we begin with the way Scripture describes the purpose of Christ’s first coming.  Among other things, it is specifically taught that Jesus came to deal with the devil.  1 John 3:8 says,  “The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.”  Among Satan’s works are falsehood and death (John 8:44; Heb 2:14), but Jesus came “to testify to the truth” (John 18:37; see John 8:31-47).  He has already “abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Tim 1:10).

Jesus came not only to destroy Satan’s works but to “destroy” Satan himself.  Hebrews 2:14 clearly states that Jesus came the first time “so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death – that is, the devil”  The word rendered “destroy” by the NIV (katargeo) does not necessarily mean “to annihilate, to abolish  completely.”  Obviously Jesus did not do this to Satan at his first coming.  But the word also can mean “to set aside, to make ineffective, to nullify, to render powerless.”  This is the better understanding here, as in the NASB: Christ come to “render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.”

Either way this is very strong language.  John says Jesus came specifically to destroy the devil’s works;  Hebrews says he came to render the devil powerless.  We must ask, if this is why Jesus came, did he actually accomplish these things or did he fail?  Surely it would be blasphemous to say the latter.  Therefore we conclude that Jesus destroyed Satan’s works and rendered him powerless from “the binding of Satan” in Rev 20:1-3).  If anything, the language of 1 John and Hebrews is even stronger than that of Revelation 20.

What about the expression, “the binding of Satan”?  Does this specific language appear elsewhere in Scripture”  The answer is yes.  In Matt 12:29 (and Mark 3:27) it is used to describe what Jesus was doing during his first advent.  Throughout Jesus earthly ministry he was already limiting Satan’s power, especially through his many victorious encounters with demonic spirits who had taken over people’s bodies.  By casting out demons Jesus was demonstrating his power over Satan’s kingdom; he was winding the chains around the devil’s neck.

Jesus made this very claim in connection with an exorcism recorded in Matt 12:22-30 (see Mark 3:22-27; Luke 11:14-23).  Here Jesus explains that in casting out demons he is not working with Satan but against him.  He uses the illustration of a strong man who is holding people captive in his house, and a stronger man who attacks and overpowers the captor and sets the captives free (Luke 11:21-22).  As he explains in Matt 12:29, “or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry of his property, unless he first binds the strong man?  And then he will plunder his house.”  By casting out demons Jesus was already in the process of binding the devil (the “strong man”) during his earthly ministry.

Jesus also gave his disciples the authority to cast our demons (Matt 10:1).  In Luke 10:1-20 he sent out 70 evangelists with similar authority.  When they returned, they joyfully reported, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name” (Luke 10:17).  Jesus replied, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning” (Luke 10:18).  Satan’s “fall from heaven” here is not his prehistoric, initial sin; it refers to the defeat he was experiencing through Christ’s power at the hands of the disciples at that very time.  This is the same event described symbolically in Rev 12:7-9,

And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon.  The dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.  And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Again this is not Satan’s initial sin, but his defeat at the hands of the Messiah at the latter’s first coming (Rev 12:1-6).

The death blow against Satan was struck in the death and resurrection of Jesus (see Gen 3:15; John 12:31-33; Col 2:15).  On the eve of his crucifixion Jesus announced his imminent mortal combat with the devil (John 14:30).  Through his own death he rendered Satan powerless (Heb 2:14), and through his resurrection the victory was complete.  The risen victor declares, “I am the first and the last, the living One, and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades “ (Rev 1:17-18).  The keys here are the same as ”the key of the abyss” in Rev 20:1.  A key is symbolic of power and authority.  Through his death and resurrection Jesus gained power over the abyss – realm of death, Satan’s proper domain; and with that power he both locks Satan himself in the abyss and rescues those who have been held captive there (Heb 2:15).  Revelation 20:1-3 thus symbolically represents Christ’s present control over Satan and his works, and the consequent limitation of his power.

Some will still be skeptical that “the binding of Satan” has been a reality since Christ’s first coming.  Again this is because they have created their own idea of what this should entail, i.e., the earth should be a perfect place, free from sin and filled with righteousness, peace, and prosperity.  But this is not how things have been.  So how can this be the millennium?  How can we accept the idea that Satan is bound now?  We can do this if we do not jump to unwarranted conclusions about the results of Satan’s binding.  Does the Bible actually say that this binding will result in a paradise-like world?  No.  In fact, Rev 20:3 states very specifically that the single purpose of Satan’s binding is “so that he would not deceive the nations any longer.”

The question is whether this was actually a result of Christ’s first coming, and the answer is yes.  Satan’s main activity is deception.  John 8:44 says, ‘he is a liar and the father of lies.”  Revelation 12:9 describes him, prior to his defeat at Christ’s first coming, as the one “who deceives the whole world,”  He is the source of lies, false teachings, false religions, and all idolatry.  With the exception of Israel, prior to Christ’s first coming the entire world – all nations as nations – was totally engulfed in Satan’s lies, languishing in darkness (see Rom 1:18-32).  But what happened when Christ came?  He accomplished the works of redemption, thus defeating the devil and his hosts.  The gospel  --  the good news about the saving power of Christ  --  is the gospel truth that dispels Satan’s lies and brings light and life to all the world (2 Tim 1:10),

This is exactly how the risen Jesus described Paul’s mission to the Gentiles, i.e., to the nations: “to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me” (Acts 26:18).  this tells us that prior to the preaching of the gospel, the nations were in darkness; they were the domain of Satan.  But as the gospel has been preached “to all the nations” in obedience to the Great Commission (Luke 24:47; see Matt 28:18-20, Mark 16:15), multitudes “from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues” (rev 7:9) have been delivered from captivity to the devil.  In terms of Rev  20:1-3, the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the chain that binds Satan, so that is not able to deceive the nations any longer.

This does not mean that Satan is doing nothing today.  He still roams about, like a roaring lion, seeking to devour us (1 Pet 5:8).  But Christ has established a safety zone, as it were, a place where Satan has no power.  It is the church, which is the realm over which Christ reigns in his millennial kingship, a haven from the forces of death (Matt 16:18), and “the pillar and support of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15).  Anyone who accepts the truth of the gospel and surrenders to the Lordship of Christ is rescued from captivity to Satan and set free to live beyond the reach of his lying mouth and slashing claws.

The results of Christ’s initial binding of Satan are bestowed on individuals.  When one makes his choice to follow Christ instead of Satan, the almighty power of Jesus Christ binds the devil in reference to that person’s life.  Jesus has already bound the strong man as such; when we preach the gospel and convert individuals, we are in effect plundering the strong man’s house and carrying off his property (Matt 12:29).  Because this has already been done on a worldwide basis, with practically every nation being exposed to Christ’s liberating power to some degree, it can no longer be said that Satan is deceiving the Nations.  Therefore, in terms of Rev 20:1-3,

Offline soterion

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3731
  • Manna: 136
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #84 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 10:19:48 »
4WD,

I did just now read the info you just posted above. That used to be the view I held. It's good stuff.

However, I am sure we can understand that similarity of terminology across different books of the Bible does not necessarily refer to exactly the same thing or event. Some try and make the Day of the Lord and Lord's Day refer to the one and same day across the Bible, when in actuality the term should be understood in each context to see what is being described. The same thing with "coming of the Lord" and similar phraseology. Some try to make the phrase refer to one and the same day (usually the Second Coming) when that doesn't work in all of the various contexts.

I believe the same is true for the binding of Satan in Rev 20. Preceding this binding, in chapter 19, Jesus comes riding a white horse and He stops the beast and the false prophet. This "coming" is not the first advent or the Second Coming, but rather Jesus bringing to an end he who is harming His people. The beast is who had been persecuting the church in the earlier chapters of the book. This is all post resurrection and ascension of Jesus (and post AD 70, 3 Rs). Coinciding with the end of the persecution of the beast is the binding of Satan. Satan is not going to be allowed to raise up another persecutor, for some time.

I don't have a Sword in front of me right now, but I would think that the deception of the peoples against the church had to occur prior to and during the persecutions. By ending the beast and false prophet, and binding Satan from further deceptions, the persecutions will not restart under another "beast."

Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5567
  • Manna: 457
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #85 on: Tue Apr 17, 2018 - 10:26:54 »
3 Resurrections---

I read your post below in amazement. You truly believe that Satan has been destroyed. And yet you ignore history and the Spiritual Warfare that is definitely
taking place.  You have to look closely at the attempted annihilation of the Jews. This wasn't just some evil plan man came up with----no this was a definite
satanic attack.  Satan KNEW that a momentous event was about to take place----and he was attempting to stop it.  If there are no Jews, there can be no Jewish
nation.  World War 2 ended in 1945 and 6 million Jews were destroyed in the process.  Yet, in 1948 the Jews returned to their homeland.

This was a Spiritual battle that was waged. And Satan did his utmost to destroy the Jews. But God's will MUST be done----and Israel formed despite Satan's
attempts to thwart it.  Satan is fully aware that the re-formation of Israel is a direct signal that His end is VERY NEAR. He therefore (in his insanity) attempted
to stop it.

You are blinded 3 Resurrections. You are willingly and willfully accepting a theology that is blatantly false.  Satan is very much alive and active in the world right how---
and Jesus Christ is very close to returning to this planet as He promised.  Satan has YET to be bound for 1000 years. And once He is finally released, shortly there-
after He will be thrown into the Lake of Fire forever.  THIS IS YET FUTURE.

Offline lea

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Manna: 5
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #86 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 18:23:15 »
3 Resurrections---

I read your post below in amazement. You truly believe that Satan has been destroyed. And yet you ignore history and the Spiritual Warfare that is definitely
taking place.  You have to look closely at the attempted annihilation of the Jews. This wasn't just some evil plan man came up with----no this was a definite
satanic attack.  Satan KNEW that a momentous event was about to take place----and he was attempting to stop it.  If there are no Jews, there can be no Jewish
nation.  World War 2 ended in 1945 and 6 million Jews were destroyed in the process.  Yet, in 1948 the Jews returned to their homeland.

This was a Spiritual battle that was waged. And Satan did his utmost to destroy the Jews. But God's will MUST be done----and Israel formed despite Satan's
attempts to thwart it.  Satan is fully aware that the re-formation of Israel is a direct signal that His end is VERY NEAR. He therefore (in his insanity) attempted
to stop it.

You are blinded 3 Resurrections. You are willingly and willfully accepting a theology that is blatantly false.  Satan is very much alive and active in the world right how---
and Jesus Christ is very close to returning to this planet as He promised.  Satan has YET to be bound for 1000 years. And once He is finally released, shortly there-
after He will be thrown into the Lake of Fire forever.  THIS IS YET FUTURE.
In the Bible, Satan succeeded, or rather I say God allowed the Jews to be killed by the Romans because she had become the unfaithful wife- the harlot of Babylon. They apostasized and worshiped Roman gods. They rejected and killed their own Messiah.

Scripture tells us several times that Satan's time was "short" and he would be crushed under our feet "shortly."

Evil is still around. Even outside the gates of the New Jerusalem.

It shows that although Satan was thrown in the LOF, his influence can continue.

Modern Israel has nothing to do with any Biblical "holy people!"

God left the building (temple built with hands) almost 2 thousand years ago.

There is only good and evil. And if you can defeat evil, you know that God is on one's side!


Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Manna: 26
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #87 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 12:40:37 »
1 Pt 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Doesn't sound like someone bound in chains to me.

Mt 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Jesus said the devil would be sowing tares until the end of the world, doesn't sound like someone bound by chains to me. 


Offline lea

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Manna: 5
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #88 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 15:00:39 »
Amo said:
Quote
1 Pt 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Your kidding, right?  When did Peter write that statement? Hmm.
Quote

Jesus said the devil would be sowing tares until the end of the world, doesn't sound like someone bound by chains to me. 

Well, it's the end of the "age" not the "world." Some versions make the mistake of using "end of the world!"

 

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 395
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #89 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 16:46:20 »
Amo  -  I would second lea's comment that this I Peter 5:8 verse was written by Peter at a time when the devil had been loosed on earth, "seeking whom he may devour".  It was during that "little season" he had been given between Christ's ascension in AD 33 and AD 66 when "every unclean spirit" was imprisoned in Jerusalem, as Rev. 18:2 foretold.   This "little season" was just before the "completion of the AGE", which, as lea has noted, is NOT the end of the WORLD.  Remember, Peter also told his first-century readers just prior to this verse that "the END OF ALL THINGS IS AT HAND" in I Peter 4:7.   What he meant was that the "completion of the AGE" was "at hand" (meaning present) for that generation.

As for the tares parable, it too was fulfilled in that first-century generation.  We have proof of this by looking at the parallel passage to your Matthew 13:36-43 text.  It is found in Luke 13:24-30 where it talks about the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" taking place for those who would tell the returning Christ that "we have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets."  There is ONLY ONE GENERATION and one nation that has had Jesus personally teach in its streets, and has eaten and drunk at the same table in Jesus' physical presence, and that is the generation of Jews that were contemporary with Jesus' 3 1/2-year ministry.  THIS GENERATION that rejected their prophesied Messiah would be the ones that experienced weeping and gnashing of teeth when they witnessed the resurrection of all the saints and prophets, with themselves thrust out of the kingdom of God.   These "tares" were gathered and burned in the "furnace of fire" in Jerusalem long ago at the completion of that Old Covenant Age.

I would differ with most on this board by saying that the binding of Satan was begun long ago at the time when Solomon's temple foundation was laid.  We have proof of this by checking out Psalm 72 in the LXX.  David prophesied that Solomon "the king's son" would "bring low the false accuser" in Ps. 72:4.  This "false accuser" is Satan, the same "accuser of the brethren" from Revelation 12:10.  God used Solomon to "bring low the false accuser" by launching the golden age of peace for Jerusalem under his reign - the beginning of the millennium of physical temple worship - EXACTLY 1,000 years before Christ's death, resurrection, and ascension in AD 33.  It was BOTH a literal AND a symbolic number of years, and provided the type for the later spiritual anti-type temple made of living stones, with Christ laid down as its foundation stone.


Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Manna: 26
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #90 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 09:07:38 »
You guys are in lala land. Stop making the scriptures say what you want to believe, and accept what they plainly state.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. 6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. 7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

No indication above that this war would end thousands of years before Christ returns again, which event has not transpired as Preterists and their minions falsely claim.




Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Manna: 26
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #91 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 09:15:38 »
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. 10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. 11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The dragon, who is identified as the devil in Rev 12, gives these beasts their power. Tell us when these things have already happened over all the world and then Satan was bound. We must have missed that in history class. No doubt you will claim all the world doesn't mean all the world. Your will change scripture to fit your chosen belief, rather than change your chosen belief to fit with scripture.

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Manna: 26
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #92 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 09:24:08 »

1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Do we not see all such today? Are we not in much later times than the days of the Apostles? What latter times do yo suggest are being referred to above? Are your teachings not a fulfillment of the above prophecy? Yes they are.

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Manna: 26
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #93 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 09:41:06 »
2 Thess 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So according to you all of the above has already happened. Please do explain how and when. There is no more deception and delusion in the world? All are now saved? Satan is not involved in all the deception and delusion present today? BALONY!

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3004
  • Manna: 26
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #94 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 09:46:28 »
If Satan was already bound long ago, shortly after the days of the apostles, then why didn't the apostles tell us about this wonderful time to get out the gospel unhindered by the enemy? Why did they leave us with so many warnings and experiences of battle with him, without informing us of the glorious times just about to come upon us when he would be bound and no longer able to deceive us or anyone else? They did not, because such is not true. To the contrary, such teaching is one of the deceptions they warned of. 

Offline soterion

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3731
  • Manna: 136
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #95 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 09:55:02 »
Amo,

You know that if you ask 100 people to give an interpretation of Revelation, you will get 100 different answers, and each one will be dogmatic about how right he or she is. Each one can be just as wrong as the other, but each will be adamant just the same.

You are just one of those 100, and so is 3 Resurrections, and so am I. I don't agree with either one of you. ::cool::

Offline lea

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 74
  • Manna: 5
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #96 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 12:52:17 »
Amo  says:
Quote
The dragon, who is identified as the devil in Rev 12, gives these beasts their power. Tell us when these things have already happened over all the world and then Satan was bound. We must have missed that in history class. No doubt you will claim all the world doesn't mean all the world. Your will change scripture to fit your chosen belief, rather than change your chosen belief to fit with scripture
.
History class? The history is that Christ returned over the skies of Jerusalem. Your story is always the same.
You're wasting time posting long segments of scripture.
 
Who said Satan was bound in Rev.12?  The "then known world"- so yes, you just learned something.

I'm blessed. I live each day for God's grace.

At least we can agree  that "we" don't have to fear the second death!  Praise God!

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6735
  • Manna: 203
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #97 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 13:03:29 »
If Satan was already bound long ago, shortly after the days of the apostles, then why didn't the apostles tell us about this wonderful time to get out the gospel unhindered by the enemy? Why did they leave us with so many warnings and experiences of battle with him, without informing us of the glorious times just about to come upon us when he would be bound and no longer able to deceive us or anyone else? They did not, because such is not true. To the contrary, such teaching is one of the deceptions they warned of.
It would help if you bothered to see what the Bible says about the binding of Satan instead of insinuating your own view of it.

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 395
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #98 on: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 00:54:53 »
Amo  -  You might happen to be one of those who do not acknowledge scripture's description of the tendency to deception lurking the human heart since birth, (Ps. 58:3 - "The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.").  If you are one of those that reject this concept, it is probably impossible to admit that any current manifestations of wickedness and deceit committed in this New Covenant Age are credited to MAN ALONE - NOT due to any supposed Satanic or demonic operation in the world. 

I believe the following is the main reason God eradicated the presence of the evil spirit realm from this planet since the close of AD 70: to show mankind just what level of wickedness his own spirit is capable of, even WITHOUT  the devil or demons around to "beguile" him.  It's a humiliating truth: our predisposition to commit evil is every bit as bad or EVEN WORSE than Satan's ever was, because our sins are committed against God's mercy bestowed on us.  Satan and the demonic world were not given the blessings of God's intervening grace, as humans were, so our offenses against God are even more egregious than his.

In your comment #90 above, Amo, the entire text of Revelation 12 that you presented is a repetition of first-century history, encompassing Christ's birth, resurrection, and the loosing of Satan the Dragon after Christ's ascension by his being cast out of heaven into the earth (John 12:31 and 14:30).  It was then that his "short time" of persecuting the church in great wrath after Pentecost began.  This was the time he made war on the resurrected First-fruits remnant of the woman's seed that were raised along with Christ - the 144,000 "remnant" of Matthew 27:52-53 saints.  The history of this persecution period starting in full fury the very day Stephen was martyred is recorded for us in the book of Acts.  Revelation 12 is a synopsis of Acts' history of the flood of early church persecution, including Saul's / Paul's part in it.

In your comment #91, Amo, there is NO WAY this beast empowered by Satan is a future one to us, because of the "seat" or "throne" (thronon) of Satan's which was given to that first beast from the sea.  Revelation tells us that Satan's "seat" was at PERGAMOS (Rev. 2:13).  This idolatrous city was the center of the Pergamum kingdom on the Asian continent, which was GIVEN entirely to the ROMAN REPUBLIC in 133 BC by a dying King Attalus III.  He had no heir to pass his Pergamum kingdom to, and he knew the Roman republic was powerful enough to protect the Pergamum kingdom from descending into civil strife, or from being invaded by enemies. 

Therefore, since the Roman empire exists no more today, which once had this "seat" or "throne" of Satan in Pergamos given to it, this prophecy is on the list of fulfilled ones.  It also means that it was the Roman empire which was represented by the Sea Beast of Rev. 13:1-2.  Under Nero's reign, there were exactly 42 months of heavy persecution (Rev. 13:5-7) launched by the Sea Beast against the Christians.  This "fiery trial" of Christian sufferings that Peter said was then happening to his readers (I Peter 4:12 - written in AD 65) was first launched in late AD 64 after the fire of Rome was blamed on the Christians.

You state that Preterist's claim that "all the world" doesn't mean "all the world".  Well, when one looks at the Greek, there IS a difference between "All the WORLD" (kosmos or oikoumene - which can be either the globe or the known habitable world), and "all that dwell upon the EARTH" (tes ges - which is the "land" of Israel usually).  Revelation 12:12 also makes a distinction when it comes to "the inhabitants of the EARTH" (land of Israel) compared to "the inhabitants...of the SEA" (which usually refers to Gentile countries).  Satan was busy deceiving ALL these inhabitants of the earth AND of the sea in that "short time" of his, from AD 33-66.  I try to follow the Greek whenever the context makes a difference between each of these terms, not just read into it what I want it to say.  In this case, the English is rather generic, compared to the more precise Greek terms.   

And your comment #92 about the timing of " the latter times"... the same "last days" that Peter identified as their own contemporary times when the Spirit was poured out in fulfillment of the Joel prophecy - these "last days" were the same as "these last days" that were then present in Hebrews 1:1-2.  Jude 18 also agrees that the "mockers" predicted by the apostles to come in "the last time" were at that moment already operating among the church in his day. 

The time clock for the "last DAYS" had progressed to "the LAST *HOUR*" by the time I John 2:17-18 was written.  If the countdown had progressed from the "last days" to "the last HOUR" from AD 33 up until John's writing, it stretches all bounds of reason to say that "the last HOUR" should still be pending for almost 2,000 years now - especially when John's revelation said that "the time is AT HAND" (or present) to those he was addressing, for all his written prophecies to be fulfilled.

And your comment #93: I have covered the historic record of fulfillment for this II Thessalonians 2 prediction in a couple posts elsewhere.  One from May 2017 was called "The 'Man of Lawlessness' was a first - century Zealot".  Another was my comment #28 in the post called "Why a new temple is not needed in physical Israel" back in Nov. 2016.  Not sure how you presume we have said that there is "no more deception and delusion in the world", and that "all are now saved".  ???  Never stated either of those things.  As I've said above, Satan's presence is not a prerequisite for deception or sin to occur in the world.  We are equipped to do this ourselves from birth. 

And your comment #94: the apostles gave THAT GENERATION warnings and descriptions of battles with the Satanic realm because those epistles were written when it was still Satan's "short time" and "little season" of being loosed in those days from AD 33-AD 66.  The "armor of God" found in Ephesians 6 (written around AD 62-64) was still needed for Christians to combat "the wiles of the devil" up until he was imprisoned in Jerusalem in Revelation 18:2 and was cast into Jerusalem's Lake of Fire in Revelation 20:10.

The believers in those days were alerted about their soon-coming release from Satan's oppression.  Romans 16:20 (written around AD 60) says that the God of peace would "bruise" or "crush" (suntribo) Satan himself under THEIR feet "SHORTLY".  A time span from AD 60 until Satan's and the devils' imprisonment in Jerusalem in AD 66 qualifies as "shortly".  On the contrary, if Romans 16:20 was referring to a time span of 2,0000-plus years and still counting, that is NOT crushing Satan "SHORTLY", by any stretch of the imagination.  And Paul knew very well what the relative sense of the word "shortly" meant, since he used it in I Timothy 3:14 to say that he wanted to come unto Timothy "shortly" at that time. 

Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5567
  • Manna: 457
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #99 on: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 11:58:31 »
Amo---

Thank you for your posts, and your desire to speak the truth.  You are absolutely correct----Preterism is a great error. It is very obvious that Satan is not
bound or destroyed at this time on earth. That is a yet future event as you have so strongly pointed out.  Scripture is very clear about this. Thanks again and
God bless you.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6735
  • Manna: 203
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #100 on: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 12:13:26 »
It is very obvious that Satan is not bound or destroyed at this time on earth. That is a yet future event as you have so strongly pointed out.  Scripture is very clear about this.
The Binding of Satan at Jesus first coming is a basic amillennial position. Satan is not destroyed at this time, but he is bound.  See my reply #83.  I would direct your attention specifically to the last paragraph.

Offline soterion

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3731
  • Manna: 136
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #101 on: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 12:59:36 »
Amo---

Thank you for your posts, and your desire to speak the truth.  You are absolutely correct----Preterism is a great error. It is very obvious that Satan is not
bound or destroyed at this time on earth. That is a yet future event as you have so strongly pointed out.  Scripture is very clear about this. Thanks again and
God bless you.

If scripture was "very clear" about all of this, there would not be differing understandings of it.

I disagree with the basic Preterism AD 70 stuff, and I disagree with the basic amillennial position and the basic premillennial position. And, I think the veracity of my position is "very clear."

Offline fish153

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5567
  • Manna: 457
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #102 on: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 14:08:43 »
soterion---

I think the Scripture is very clear about this---and Amo was attempting to share that.  The problem is that preterists have their own definitions of words
like "soon" etc,  believing "soon" could not possibly mean 2000 years.  I believe the bible is very clear that Satan is at work during this present
age, and has not been bound or destroyed.  And I think that 95% of Christendom would agree with that.  Sorry, but have to disagree with you there.

Offline TonkaTim

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2183
  • Manna: 57
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #103 on: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 15:50:29 »
The Binding of Satan at Jesus first coming is a basic amillennial position. Satan is not destroyed at this time, but he is bound.  See my reply #83.  I would direct your attention specifically to the last paragraph.


The results of Christ’s initial binding of Satan are bestowed on individuals.  When one makes his choice to follow Christ instead of Satan, the almighty power of Jesus Christ binds the devil in reference to that person’s life.  Jesus has already bound the strong man as such; when we preach the gospel and convert individuals, we are in effect plundering the strong man’s house and carrying off his property (Matt 12:29).  Because this has already been done on a worldwide basis, with practically every nation being exposed to Christ’s liberating power to some degree, it can no longer be said that Satan is deceiving the Nations.  Therefore, in terms of Rev 20:1-3,


4WD, I think you are pretty close & over all I thought that was a pretty good post. But on this last paragraph, I think in John 12 & Revelation 12 we find some verses that should agree with what you are saying. Which takes us to the Cross.

John 12
27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. 30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. 31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Revelation 12
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death


The Cross is the central & most important event in all history. It is the focal point demonstrating God's ulitmate love for his children. Up until the Cross all nations were deceived. So deceived that nations 'cept a remnant of Israel worshiped everything but God. Even that remnant suffered from deception evidenced because the leadership, the priests, the scribes, Sadducees, the Zealots, the Pharisees all had it wrong.

Prior to the Cross, Satan was truly what Jesus called him, the Prince of this World.

At the ascension of Christ, beginning the twelve, we witness the Gospel making it way around the world freeing the captives & robbing the house of the world Prince. Jesus told us the only way that is possible is that he, the strongman, Satan, first must be bound.


Even in Revelation 20, with its marvelous signified imagery, does not say Satan is bound in all things. It says; he can no longer deceive the nations. Well, till the little season.
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 16:03:00 by TonkaTim »

Offline Yomi

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Manna: 0
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The Judgment Seat of Christ
« Reply #104 on: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 16:14:11 »
Judgment Begins With The House of God

1、Christ Does the Work of Judgment With the Truth
2、Why Does God Carry Out a Stage of the Work of Judgment and Purification in the Last Days?
3、How does God's work of judgment during the last days purify and save mankind?
4、What are the outcomes achieved by His work of judgment in the last days? What kind of important significance does it have?
5、What is the consequence and the outcome of the religious world rejecting God's work of judgment in the last days?

If you want to know these.  please click here.
link removed
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 23, 2018 - 16:53:07 by chosenone »

 

     
anything