GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13  (Read 1903 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline PeteWaldo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by grace through faith
    • View Profile
The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« on: Mon Dec 14, 2015 - 13:13:13 »
Few elements in the book of Revelation have received more attention than the "beast" of Revelation chapter 13. This is the infamous "The" "Antichrist" of some future someday for futurists, while partial-preterists generally figure it to have been some 1st century figure like Nero, as having fulfilled the prophecy during that century.

But what might we discover if we apply the third, all but forgotten traditional historicist approach to prophecy, of those great men of God of the Reformation, and as available evidence suggests was the approach of the church up until the eschatologies of futurism and partial-preterism began to come into vogue during the 19th century.

Some that seem to believe they have it all figured out proclaim such as:
"If we want God's interpretation of a matter, the only sound hermeneutic for finding out what He means by what He has inspired written, is to ask Him. We do that by evaluating His Word in comparison to itself. In other words, reading His Word, in the light of His Word. The Bible then becomes its own interpreter and even dictionary."

I couldn't agree more with that sentiment but can church leaders really reconsider their prior indoctrination, or are those words more akin to a wishful hollow unctuous platitude, proclaimed while pressing palms together and gazing skyward?

The methodology of hermeneutics is a powerful tool that is used in the study of literature, poetry and even legal documents, but in the study of scripture perhaps more than anywhere else. Letting scripture define and explain scripture. So what can we discover about this "beast" of Revelation 13 when we apply the methodology of hermeneutics, within the traditional historicist approach to prophecy?

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

So the dragon, Satan, gave this "beast" his "seat" (and power and authority). When we search for an adjacent hermeneutic for the term "leopard", we find Rev 13 is the only such reference in the New Testament, but when we check the Old we find 5 more references, two of which seem most interesting. Particularly in the book of Daniel, where we not only find a leopard, but we find it in the same context of the figurative language of a prophetic dream, along with a bear and lion as well! Now that's hitting the hermeneutic jackpot!

Daniel 7:3  And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
Daniel 7:4  The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings...
Daniel 7:5  And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear...
Daniel 7:6  After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard...

Daniel also describes a fourth beast as:

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth.....
Wow! So we not only find three of the very same figures, but in the same chapter Daniel's prophecy defines a "beast" as a "kingdom", when used in that figurative language!

Dan 7:19 .....and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
So Daniel's prophecy also assigns the masculine gender to those kingdom "beasts".

No shortage of both Christian and Jewish scholars understand those figures to represent the successive ancient kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and the fourth beast as the Roman Empire, that unfolded in Daniel's future.

So in Revelation we find a composite leopard-bear-lion "beast" kingdom, of which Satan gives "him" his seat. What countries occupy the seats today, that those ancient kingdoms did?

Babylon = Iraq
Medo-Persia = Iran
Greece = Syria-Lebanon


While those countries and various sects of Islam may have theological and political differences, and separate national sovereignty, they are all perfectly united spiritually through the false prophet Muhammad and his Quran. The "sign" that Muhammad "wrought" before his Islamic kingdom "beast". As a result each and every follower of Muhammad is an antichrist as an article of their faith because they must deny and even blaspheme the Son of God, and are even taught that to profess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even to pray in Jesus' name, would be to commit the single most "heinous" and only unforgivable sin ("shirk") in the false prophet Muhammad's kingdom. That's 1.5 billion antichrists - 1/4 of mankind in the world today.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Last I checked percentages were at: Iraq 97%, Iran 98%, Syria/Lebanon 90%/60% Islamic. However based on what I have heard lately the Christians have virtually been wiped out in Syria.



Muhammad's followers fight and slay God's people because they are commanded to:

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Surah 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an

Satan, the ruler of the kingdoms of this world, gave the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom beast his power and authority as well, as is made conspicuous through not only 1400 years of Islamic history, but through the murder, mayhem and misery perpetrated by true, fundamental, orthodox followers of Muhammad around much of the world today.
However through an ethnographic hermeneutic, we find that the prophet John's whole "world" has already been consumed by the "beast". Since outside of the tiny little strip of land of Israel, where the rights of Jews, Christians and other non-Muslim Arabs as well as Muslims, are protected by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State, a near unanimity of the rest of the Middle East carries the name of the beast - Islam - suggesting that the mark of the beast may be a fulfilled prophecy!

Strong's (partial def): world
New Testament Greek Definition:
3625 oikoumene {oy-kou-men'-ay}
1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in
distinction from the lands of the barbarians

1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire



Another interesting use of the term "leopard" is in: 
Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Remember, the Revelation 13:2 beast is "as a leopard".
Individual Muslims can, and do indeed change, as evidenced by over 6 million Muslims coming to Jesus Christ every year in Africa alone.
However anybody that knows anything about Islam, knows it is impossible to change the Quran or Hadith - Islam can't change its spots - since it has been made obvious for all to see, that the ultimate arbiters of Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast" will always be the most evil and murderous among Muhammad's followers, armed with a beheading knife in one hand will being perfectly supported by their Quran and Hadith in the other. If someone were foolish enough to propose changes in Islam's books, it would result in a death sentence for any Islamic scholar that was so clueless and apostate as to even suggest such a thing.
Whether al-Qaeda, the Taliban, The Islamic State, Boko Haram or whichever even more black-hearted and reprobate group arrives in the future, those most willing to murder others in cold blood will obviously be the ultimate arbiters of the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast".

AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

It would seem that sound exegesis through the methodology of hermeneutics, within the traditional historicist approach to prophecy, paints a bulls eye in the middle of Muhammad's back as THE false prophet of the book of Revelation. Yet some among the indoctrinated remain so hermeneutically challenged as to pluck separate terms like beast, little horn, man of sin and antichrist out of their context, and then lump them altogether as if they were all intended to all mean the same thing! But perhaps that was prophesied too!

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

If this thread gored your particular eschatological ox, it is certainly open to presentation of a more hermeneutically sound exegesis, regarding the identity of the "beast" of Revelation 13:2.
« Last Edit: Tue Dec 15, 2015 - 09:47:17 by PeteWaldo »

Christian Forums and Message Board

The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« on: Mon Dec 14, 2015 - 13:13:13 »

Offline PeteWaldo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by grace through faith
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #1 on: Tue Jan 19, 2016 - 07:56:30 »
Back on November 17th RB made the following unambiguous flat charge:

You come here and teach that the beast of Revelation is the Islamic religion, which you will never be able to prove with using only the scriptures.


While I didn't make the case using "only the scriptures", in this thread I made a hermeneutically reasonably sound case through scripture using an adjacent hermeneutic, in conjunction with a widely held understanding among Jews as well as Christians regarding the identities of Daniel's 4 kingdom "beasts". Both passages written in the figurative language of prophetic dreams while even using three of the very same figures. Shouldn't we let scripture explain and define scripture?
From the time I posted this thread over a month ago, rather than RB weighing in with a more hermeneutically sound exegesis all it seems to have been greeted with is crickets chirping, in spite of his flat declaration I quoted.
RB, how does your "beast" relate to a leopard, bear and lion?
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-beast-revelation/msg1055001317/#msg1055001317
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 19, 2016 - 08:24:50 by PeteWaldo »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #1 on: Tue Jan 19, 2016 - 07:56:30 »

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #2 on: Wed Jan 20, 2016 - 08:55:05 »
Back on November 17th RB made the following unambiguous flat charge:
Peter it is only unclear to the person who is without understanding. The Islamic religion is not the beast of Revelation~in order for one to even begin to teach such a doctrine, he must and does depend heavily on extra-biblical information to support such a baseless doctrine.  Peter you asked:
Quote
Shouldn't we let scripture explain and define scripture?
We should indeed and only scriptures, which you confessed that you did not:
Quote
While I didn't make the case using "only the scriptures", in this thread I made a hermeneutically reasonably sound case through scripture using an adjacent hermeneutic
Adjacent hermeneutics could be anything that one desires to use in order to convince others of a truth that they so strongly believe, regardless of what God gives witness to. I agree that the Islamic religion is part of the whore of Mystery Babylon, yet far from being the most dangerous as far as using deceptive means, and being the main one that Daniel spoke of from chapter 7 to 12; Christ warned us of from Matthew 24; Paul from 2nd Thessalonians 2; and John from 1st John 2; and Revelation. 
Quote
Both passages written in the figurative language of prophetic dreams while even using three of the very same figures.
Peter, that is why we must take Jesus' and Paul's and John from 1st John, and their interpretations of those highly symbolic  words and use that as a landmark for our interpretations. You have ask me to explain what it is to be a Amill Idealist/spiritual. Allow me to do that first. Augustine would be considered today to be just that, His views changed as he got older to the Spiritual interpretation~See his articles on Revelation Chapter twenty...... Way ahead of his time for sure.  This view is the least favorite and the most hated.  This view does not allow for outside sources to be bought into scriptures, believing we have a complete revelation from heaven as the only source needed to explain those highly symbolic words from holy men of old.  We believe that the Spirit of God uses his word to enlighten his servant to its hidden truths. The reason why this system is mocked is that men trust history more than the Spirit of God for illumination; and by using outside source, they can trust in their natural abilities to allow the scriptures to make sense, than trusting in God alone to open one's heart by searching in the scriptures of truth. They have yet to fully trust the truth that scriptures interprets scriptures~interpretations belong to God, not man, as holy Joseph said~
Quote
Genesis 40:8~And they said unto him, We have dreamed a dream, and there is no interpreter of it. And Joseph said unto them, Do not interpretations belong to God? tell me them, I pray you."
Wise men know where to find the interpretation of visions and highly symbolic language.
Quote
Daniel 2:17-22~"Then Daniel went to his house, and made the thing known to Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, his companions: That they would desire mercies of the God of heaven concerning this secret; that Daniel and his fellows should not perish with the rest of the wise men of Babylon. Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven. Daniel answered and said, Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are his: And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: He revealeth the deep and secret things: he knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him."
An Idealist, or spiritualist, seeks their understanding from the scriptures alone, and reject all theories of man seeking to use extra-biblical means to teach doctrines. We believe that ALL TRUTHS are hidden in the scriptures, and until we can make all scriptures flow in perfect harmony, then we can never be sure that we have truth~ but when do, then that gives us confidence that what we believe is the TRUTH OF THE SCRIPTURES. In other words~we believe scriptures interprets scriptures, period! If one is seeking for an biblical interpretation then God has it in his word preserved for us....THERE we must go and find it, as one would seek for hide treasure.             
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 20, 2016 - 08:59:40 by RB »

Offline PeteWaldo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by grace through faith
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #3 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 05:56:14 »
Quote
Shouldn't we let scripture explain and define scripture?
We should indeed and only scriptures, which you confessed that you did not:

My friend I read a lot of words, and suggestion that you use scripture to help you define and understand scripture, yet I didn't notice any reference as to why John's beast is described as a composite leopard, bear or lion while one of Daniel's visions uses these very same 3 figures.

A curious question. Do you believe that apostate Christianity is the only subject of the book of Revelation?
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 06:20:02 by PeteWaldo »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #3 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 05:56:14 »

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 06:24:53 »
Peter, before I will come to Revelation thirteen, I am gong to start where Christ started, and left for the church to guide them in understanding Daniel and other prophetic teaching that was to follow after him given by Paul and John. In Matthew twenty four we have the very same teaching as we find in Revelation thirteen, while each use different similitude's, smiles, etc. Let us glean from Matthew 24 first. and allow the scriptures to reveal to us the truth hidden in in the scriptures concerning the latter days of this world.
Quote
Matthew 24:1,2~"And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples cam to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.  Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
We need not to be long with these verses and we will not.  We do have a literal temple and buildings under consideration.  Jesus said plainly that all that they are looking at~that there is a day coming when one stone shall not be left upon another.  We have no reason to believe that it shall not be so, exactly as Jesus spoke those words. There shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

First, this did not happen in 70. A.D. as many claim when this was fulfilled.  It did not happen.  Nevertheless, it will be totally fulfilled just as Jesus spoke.  When Jesus returns back to this earth in that day, in flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of of our Lord Jesus Christ: they shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power.  Both the wicked and their dream world will be totally destroyed, by the Almighty power of the Son of God; and in that day there shall be not one stone left upon another, that shall not be thrown down.  The Romans and what they did to the Jews and their city, can not even be compared to this day, not even close, regardless how men may try to convince you otherwise~not even close!

Anyone can use Google, and see for themselves that even until this very day, some of the old Jewish temple still stands, with many stones upon another.  Ever heard of the Western wall, or wailing wall? Sure you have.  In spite of this, some men still believes that this was fulfilled in 70 A.D.~go figure!

Quote
Matthew 24:3 ~"And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and the end of the world?"

Peter and James, John and Andrew, came and ask Jesus three questions.  1. Tell us, when shall these things be?  2.  What shall be the sign of thy coming?  3.  And the end of the world?

Here is where men begin to twist the scriptures and corrupt God's sacred word to fit their own desired interpretation.  When shall not one stone be left upon another?  Whatever was said between them that is not recorded in the scriptures we do not know, and neither do we need to know~but this we do know: they knew that Christ was teaching them things concerning the end of this world.

World means world, for there are no reasons for us to believe anything other than that.  We are not force to consider any other meaning than its common use of the word, there is no reason to do so anywhere within this discourse. For anyone to try to teach  that the word world means the Jewish system of worship will not find any support in this discourse.  The Jewish system of worship and world are two different things that have no similarity whatsoever.  But, above that, for anyone to think that Peter, John, James and Andrew would use the word world in the sense of the Jewish system of worship coming to and end~would be giving them much more light than they had at this time in understanding of spiritual truths.   People need to consider Acts ten and Acts fifteen if they believe otherwise.  All of the young church at that time was going to go through a reformation of their religion in just a few short days, months, and years, as the Gentiles begin to flow into the church of Jesus Christ, to be part of the promises of Abraham through Jesus Christ.  Even though it was indeed true, that the temple and their form of worship was going to end, shorty, this is hidden from them for a few more years.  Beside, all that follows in this chapter and chapter twenty five prove how the word world must be understood, which is the strongest proof. There will be signs given by Christ, starting at verse five of this chapter concerning what shall take place in the latter days just before Christ's second coming. 


Quote
Matthew 24:4~"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you."And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you."

Before our Lord said one word, he first gave to his disciples and to us a very sober warning.  Take heed that no man deceive you.  Is this warning for us, or should believe that it was only for the disciples and their generation? Mark 13:37 will answer that question for us~ Read it.

Paul in 2 Thess. 2 when speaking on the very same subject, did exactly what Jesus did~before starting his teaching concerning what shall take place just before Christ's coming, he said the very same words that Jesus did.
Quote
2 Thessalonians 2:3a"Let no man deceive you by any means:..."
This is a very timely warning for us to heed.  There are so many ways that the devil labors to deceive us on this so important doctrine.  Between Christ and Paul both warning us not to be deceive, we see a co-determination effort under the guidance of the Spirit of God to prepare us to withstand the effort of false prophets to turn us away from God giving truth concerning what shall come to pass in the latter days just before Jesus' coming back to receive us unto himself. 

Both Matthew 24 and 2 Thess. 2 are speaking of the same period of time, which is the little season when the devil shall be loose from being restrained, and shall be turned loose upon the world of God haters, who believe not the truth, but have pleasure in unrighteousness~and a time when God's elect shall be overcome by them, but not destroyed.

Quote
Matthew 24:5~"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."

That is why Christ said what he did in verse four, that we must take heed that no man deceives us~as Paul added, by any means. Many, yes many shall come!  For anyone to take these warnings in Matthew 24 and stamp them FULFILLED 70 A.D.! are one of those many ways that men can leave God's elect deceived and unprepared for the evil days that are coming just before the coming of Jesus Christ to gather his people unto himself.

Let Jesus and his apostles be our witness, and not man, as to when many false prophets shall arise and deceive many.  Believers look to the word of God for their doctrine; while others trust in Josephus for their biblical source of information and trust.  They can have him and his apostate spirit, give us the word of God only for the foundation upon which we shall build our faith upon.

Our faith is in the word of God, not from outside source, of what is properly called~"extra-biblical poison and lies~because, any teachings outside of the scriptures that some use as truth and a confirmation of what they believe, can be at best, mixed with error, with maybe some truth, maybe. We must beware of men, who try to use extra-biblical source to teach bible doctrine.  Why would one do so, and why would they need to do so?  I think some know the answer to that question. Let all men, who are disciples indeed, step forth and prove it, by using only the scriptures are their source for bible doctrine.  Let others believe in fables if they desire to do so, but true children of God live by every word of God, period.

Many SHALL come~ To these words agree the apostle John and what he and other apostles taught.
Quote
1 John 2:2:18~"Little children, it is the last time: and ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

This scripture among others, proves what John received from Jesus' teachings from Matthew 24;  and he in turned taught others~that is: that in the last days of the last time (for there are no more dispensational periods after the one in which we are now living, from Christ's birth to the end of the world!) that antichrist, or the man of sin, or false prophet, all of which are one and the same shall come. 

Even in John's generation there were many false prophets/man of sin/antichrists, but, in the days leading up to the coming of Jesus Christ, they would increase greatly. It will be the time when God removes his restraint upon the devil, and allow him his freedom of using his power greater than at any time in the history of this world. He will go forth to deceive those men and women who have not the seal of God in their foreheads; men who have sold themselves to do wickedly; whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb from the foundation of the world.

Many shall come~When Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, the day of Christ (which he referred to as the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him~2 Thess. 2:1) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.  Paul had reference to the time at the end of this world, just before the coming of Jesus Christ, that the professing church of Jesus Christ shall fall away from the love of the truth, for a love of pleasure, and unrighteousness.

The phrase: man of sin is a collective noun, which can be scriptural defined as all men who live under the power of sin~these men shall reign in the temple of God, just before the coming of Jesus Christ.  God's true children will flee from the professing churches, when they begin to see and know that the abomination of desolation sits/stands where it ought not to stand!  Read Mark 13:14. Paul learned these things while in Arabia where he was taught many truths by revelation of Jesus Christ.  This is his own testimony of what he learned what he preached to others~ Galatians 1:11-17  What Paul taught us from 2 Thess. 2; and John from 1 John and Revelation are the same truths that we shall see from Matthew 24 and John Revelation specially 13, 17 and 18 .  Why should they not be? 

In MY NAME~In the last days of this world, known in the scriptures as the little season, men shall come preaching in the name of Jesus Christ.  The evil spirit of antichrist does not deny Jesus Christ~by no means! The name of Jesus flows freely from their lips. But, it is another Jesus, another spirit, preaching another gospel. They will tell you that Jesus loves you just as you are, even the sodomites~just as  they are! Their message is that Jesus died for every single person, and that he has done all that he can do to save you, the rest is up to you! With this Jesus, it is all about love, he hates divisions, and those that cause them.  Doctrine is not important to this Jesus, it is all about love and peace.  It is all about love and praise, causal dressing, living, and preaching!

These folk have forsaken the old paths, the old songs of Zion, mourners bench and praying in the Holy Ghost, for a praise band, that could almost be equal to most rock concerts! The False prophets stand on the sideline, as cheerleaders, as they labor to work their worshipers into a frenzy devilish spirit, which they call: worshiping God in the Spirit.  It is indeed worshiping in the spirit, but the spirit of antichrist, not of God! It is against the word of God.  But, they would never know that, since they very seldom use the word of God as their source of truth.  Everything is now done on a big screen before them, and the blinded puppets follow the blind guide, instead of the word of God. There are not a few of these people, but many.   But, it is not just limited to these, but to all, who have no love for the truth of the holy scriptures, yet profess that sacred name whereby we are called. That is one reason why Paul said these words: 2 Timothy 3:1a~"This know also, that in the last days, perilous times SHALL COME......." Saying, I am Christ~These false prophets have one thing correct: Jesus is indeed Christ.  Jesus is not saying that these false prophets will make claims to be Christ, for that would deceive at most, only a handful of lunatics at best~but these false prophets would deceived many. I could name many false prophets that have deceived multitudes of people, all which would fall under the meaning of antichrist, man of sin, abomination of desolation:  The Popes, prosperity preachers of the twenty first century, The Billy Graham crusades of the twenty first century has been used to deceived many into believing that all is well with their souls, base upon a one time confession~and so many more. But the Jesus that these preach is not the Jesus that true believers are trusting in for their salvation.  It is a different as night and day.  I have limited myself so as not to mention as many names as I really know to be, but will leave it to the reader to be convinced themselves. It is indeed a sad time in this world's history, and expect it to be much worst, specially for those few who are willing to be sold out to God and his word.  There are only a handful of these type of people left in this world.

And shall deceive MANY~ These are sobering and fearful words.  Better to consider them now, then to hear Christ say: "Depart from me, ye workers of iniquity!"

There might have been a time in this world when one could have just wander into a place of worship, and hear the true gospel preached; or, at least one preaching in the fear of God, base upon the light that he had;  but, I beleive those days are long gone. There is hardly a place where the scriptures alone are loved, fear and preached from.  I am not saying there are none, but will say this, there will not be a large place where one could find many of the true elect there. This world is indeed full of religious folk, no question, just not many God fearing believers in one place. 

These words spoken by Christ will be fulfilled just as he said that they would be.  These things mentioned in verses 5-30 are signs pointing to the days in which Jesus shall return again.  They are very obvious in our own days, only they shall get worse, not better.  Later..........
 

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #4 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 06:24:53 »



Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #5 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 06:30:42 »
A curious question. Do you believe that apostate Christianity is the only subject of the book of Revelation?
Peter, it IS the main focus, along with God's judgment upon them. IF there is any consolation for you, then Islam with it evil Antichrist spirit, are part of those that shall be judged. But, dear sir, the danger is so much more subtle than what you see or think.
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 06:38:21 by RB »

Offline PeteWaldo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by grace through faith
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #6 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 06:44:12 »
Peter, it IS the main focus, along with God's judgment upon them. IF there is any consolation for you, then Islam with it evil Antichrist spirit, are part of those that shall be judged. But, dear sir, the danger is so much more subtle than what you see or think.

If this was an answer to my question, and apostate Christianity (and punishment thereof) is the "main focus", then what else does the book of Revelation focus on?

Before spending my time wading through another blizzard of copy and pasted words, I did a ctrl-f search and didn't happen to find the words "lion", "bear" or "leopard" in your reply.

Could you please at least make a little effort to post a concise and substantive response to my query.

..... I didn't notice any reference as to why John's beast is described as a composite leopard, bear or lion while one of Daniel's visions uses these very same 3 figures.

You claim you use only scripture, but then you seem to turn around and throw the most germane relationship in scripture, right out the window.
Doesn't your "idealist" bible have an Old Testament?
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 07:29:54 by PeteWaldo »

Offline PeteWaldo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by grace through faith
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #7 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 07:11:16 »
Adjacent hermeneutics could be anything that one desires to use in order to convince others of a truth that they so strongly believe, regardless of what God gives witness to.

But you dithered on doing exactly as you described - and not surprisingly - considering the short shrift you paid to hermeneutics. And shouldn't you of all people, who claim to use only scripture to understand scripture, find more value in the science of hermeneutics than anyone else?

Far from your denigration of of it, hermeneutics is a scientific methodology used in the study of everything from literature to poetry to legal documents and more than anything else, the scholarly study of scripture.

The only way we can understand a term, the meaning of which may seem elusive or ambiguous in our subject verse, is to search for the term elsewhere in scripture to see what we might learn from additional uses of the term. Before the convenience and speed of computers, that is of course what the concordance in the back of our bibles was used for.

In the case of an adjacent hermeneutic, we first look for the term in proximity to where we found it, then in the same chapter, then the same book, then the same Testament, and then search the other Testament, to study all of the uses of the term. While at the same time the contexts of the passages that share the term must be taken into consideration, for example as to whether they are literal passages, or are figurative passages penned in figurative language.

In the case of John's leopard-bear-lion beast, we not only find the very same 3 figures used in a single chapter in the book of Daniel, but we also find the term "beast" defined as a kingdom. Both passages are also in the same context of the figurative language of prophetic a dream/vision.
That is hitting the hermeneutic jackpot, yet you, who claim to use only scripture, throw that stunning relationship right out the window.
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 07:26:55 by PeteWaldo »

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #8 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 07:28:02 »
If this was an answer to my question, and apostate Christianity is the "main focus", then what else does it focus on?
Peter, WHY NOT start where Christ left off at, that he deemed so important to make it his last exhortation to the church, before leaving this earth? Whatever I copy and paste, ARE MY OWN WORDS that I have prepared before hand! I have a 70 page outline on Mystery Babylon that I personally put together, and whenever I have something to say on that subject, yes I may very well copy and paste, but for the most part I shoot from hip based upon over forty plus years of studying. It is impossible to jump into Revelation without first using scriptures in the gospel and the epistles. We use many OT scriptures, especially when dealing with Mystery Babylon, for it begin there and ends in Revelation. Jesus' discourse in Matthew 24, explains Daniel 7-9 almost in totality ! Is it because you do not desire to hear the truth on the subject, but only desire to push your extra-biblical prophetic teaching concerning Mohammed/Muslin/Islamic teaching into Revelation?   Well, sir, it will not fit. Matthew 24; 2 Thess 2; 1st John 2; proves otherwise. There is a progressive revelation of truth from the beginning to the end of the scriptures, and you desire to start at the end, and force your corrupt teaching therein. You are a natural Jew by your own confession, and your hatred of Islam is greater than your love for TRUTH, let us be honest.     
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 08:23:26 by RB »

Offline PeteWaldo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by grace through faith
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #9 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 08:20:40 »
If this was an answer to my question, and apostate Christianity is the "main focus", then what else does it focus on?
Peter, WHY NOT start where Christ left off at, that he deemed so important to make it his last exhortation to the church, before leaving this earth?

Because sound exegesis of a verse, does not begin by dragging a false presumption in from another passage of scripture, and then try to make the verse we are studying try to fit it. If we are going to understand a verse, we have to begin.........with the subject verse, and all of its elements.

Whatever I copy and paste, ARE MY OWN WORDS that I have prepared before hand!

I've certainly harbored no doubts about that my friend. But the reason you want to drown our discussion out with massive panels of copy and paste, while ignoring my queries and questions, is because you cannot make a sound case for your exegesis hermeneutically. You are basically saying, "Well gee, I have this whole inverted pyramid of pile-on presumption that I have cooked up, and am unable to think outside the box I have stuffed myself into." Futurists do the same.

So why don't you try engaging in an exchange rather than ignoring me and sticking your head in your playbook? Could you please revisit my posts and respond to what you have ignored.

I have a 70 page outline on Mystery Babylon that I personally put together, and whenever I have something to say on that subject, yes I may very well copy and paste, but for the most part I shoot from hip base upon over forty plus years of studying. It is impossible to jump into Revelation without using scriptures in the gospel and and epistles . We use many OT scriptures, especially when dealing with Mystery Babylon, for it begin there and ends in Revelation.

I agree with that, as does I would guess, most of the rest of the church. I agree that the subject of the false church/worship is a very significant subject of the book of Revelation covered by the great whore and mystery Babylon (as well as the prophesied "falling away" of Thess etc.), and have written about it myself at length. However I believe it would be absurd for one to even imagine, that all of those colorful words, figures and bifidic chiasms contained in the book of Revelation would be so monochromatic, as to be about a single subject.

Jesus discourse in Matthew 24, explains Daniel 7-9 almost in totality! Is it because you do not desire to hear the truth on the subject,.........

Why don't you set aside your unchristian false characterizations, and act like a grown-up for a change, and go back to offer substantive responses rather than wasting both our time with such as incorrectly guessing at what I do or don't "desire to hear".

........ but only desire to push your extra-biblical prophetic teaching concerning Mohammed/Muslin/Islamic teaching into Revelation?   Well, sir, it will not fit. Matthew 24; 2 Thess 2; 1st John 2; proves otherwise. There is a progressive revelation of truth from the beginning to the end of the scriptures, and you desire to start at the end, and force your corrupt teaching therein.

I start with whatever verse is being discussed. You choose to ignore the verse and run away to an inverted pyramid of pile-on presumption.

While you may fancy yourself to have the authority to make a judgment like "your corrupt teaching", particularly regarding the figurative language of a prophetic dream, the simple fact of the matter is that you don't. Yet you make such flat judgment, even while in repeated epic failure to support your view hermeneutically, or even to engage in a civil exchange.

You may think I am the reason you are so upset, but wouldn't it be safer to suggest that it is your ego driving you to false characterization and accusation, through an inability to advance your view hermeneutically, that is the reason you are actually upset?

You are a natural Jew by your own confession, ......

I am of the seed of Isaac by inheritance, and would be happy to be labeled a Jew as scripture defines, through a circumcision of the heart.
Would you be happy to be labeled a Jew?

...... and your hatred of Islam is greater than your love for TRUTH, let us be honest.

I would suggest that any self-proclaimed Christian that doesn't hate Islam, is either suffering from self-imposed abject ignorance, or isn't a Christian at all.

The "TRUTH" is, you run and hide from scripture, that doesn't fit in with your inverted pyramid of pile-on presumption. And based on your performance here, you wonder why folks don't seem to hold any deference toward the "Idealist" approach to prophecy? For starters it would seem that Idealists apparently have to harbor an abject fear of history, to don as self-imposed blinders.

Why do you suppose Revelation 13 includes the figures of leopard, bear and lion? For us to ignore?
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 08:35:12 by PeteWaldo »

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #10 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 08:35:11 »
I am of the seed of Isaac by inheritance, and would be happy to be labeled a Jew as scripture defines, through a circumcision of the heart. Would you be happy to be labeled a Jew?
Good for you and a good confession, the same here. I thought you had said that you are a natural Jews. Forgive my wrong.
Quote
I would suggest that any self-proclaimed Christian that doesn't hate Islam, is either suffering from self-imposed abject ignorance, or isn't a Christian at all.
Agreed
Quote
Why do you suppose Revelation 13 includes the figures of leopard, bear and lion? For us to ignore?
Brother, not for us to ignore. Okay, I will go diretly Revelation 13 since your post overall was a good post to me, and you agree: 
Quote
I agree with that as does, I would guess, most of the rest of the church. I agree that the subject of the false church/worship is a very significant subject of the book of Revelation covered by the great whore and mystery Babylon (as well as the prophesied "falling away" of Thess), and have written about it myself at length, I am already on the same page
Again, good for you. I have a meeting, but my next post will be for Mr. Peter, fair enough? We are not that far apart to be enemies.

Offline PeteWaldo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by grace through faith
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #11 on: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 08:40:39 »
Again, good for you. I have a meeting, but my next post will be for Mr. Peter, fair enough? We are not that far apart to be enemies.


Since when have we been enemies rather than brethren? Please revisit my first post to you which was the third one that I posted in this forum:
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/a-third-temple/msg1054999123/#msg1054999123

I think you may find yourself not that far apart from lots of folks in this forum, if you didn't launch off with such bluster and unrighteous judgment, throughout so much of your posting. I would recommend you go back through your posting history, and see if you would like to be responded to, in the fashion that you have responded to others.

In regard to additional common ground between the two of us, we both happen to be amillennial, which I think constitutes a pretty small subset of folks in this forum.
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 21, 2016 - 10:31:43 by PeteWaldo »

Offline raggthyme13

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
  • Manna: 10
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #12 on: Fri Jan 22, 2016 - 02:22:29 »
Perhaps you are reading too much into it. The leopard could just mean the beast is fierce and tears into pieces.

Offline PeteWaldo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by grace through faith
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #13 on: Fri Jan 22, 2016 - 16:32:24 »
Perhaps you are reading too much into it. The leopard could just mean the beast is fierce and tears into pieces.

What about the bear and lion? Just more fierce animals? Please devote just 5 minutes to carefully reading the OP if you haven't. It may be a bit belabored, but the "beast" of Revelation 13 is one of the most important and widely recognized, elements discussed from the book of Revelation. Let alone that no shortage of Christians and Jews recognize Daniel's kingdom beasts to be lion=Babylon, bear=MedoPersia and leopard=Syria/Lebanon. Google in quotes "lion bear leopard".

If scripture had left us hanging, rather than offering such a stunningly hermeneutically sound relationship, we might be able to shrug it off. But as the OP explores, scripture didn't leave us hanging. Your post takes me back to when I was a futurist, and any time I came across something that raised some serious questions about what I believed, I would tend to cover it over and pretend I hadn't come across it. So many questions continued to compounded that eventually I was led to overcome futurism. Through the traditional historicist approach to prophecy I use today, the answer to each question winds up adding another thread, to the nearly completely woven tapestry of end-time prophecy.
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 22, 2016 - 16:45:53 by PeteWaldo »

Offline raggthyme13

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
  • Manna: 10
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #14 on: Sat Jan 23, 2016 - 19:11:13 »
We've spoken before on the Preterist forum so I'm sure you know that I don't struggle with futurism anymore. I consider the beast a first century fulfillment for many reasons. One though comes straight from Revelation itself. While Daniel was told to seal up the prophecy as the time was still far off, John was told the exact opposite. I believe it is because the time was truly at hand, as the word says, as opposed to thousands of years in the future (from the time he was shown it).

And I did read the entire OP. Even though I disagree, it was interesting.
« Last Edit: Sat Jan 23, 2016 - 19:34:06 by raggthyme13 »

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #15 on: Wed Jan 27, 2016 - 05:02:28 »
A brief introduction: Peter here's my delayed answer that I promised to give you; thank you kindly for showing godly patience in waiting.  I just ask that you allow me to finish the whole chapter before commenting, which I deem very important to give my understanding of the complete chapter instead of commenting on two or so scriptures within this section of Revelation.  That's who I'm, and the way that God programmed me, sorry if it not what you desire me to do. I try to carefully cover a subject as best as I can when I start to do so. As strange as it may seem, you are he first person that asked me to give my understanding of John's vision of the beast that arises from the sea in Revelation thirteen.  As I began again to ponder this beast, I wanted to cover all bases of my understanding, so I went back to Daniel's four visions and went over them again, and then came back to Revelation and pondered chapters 12-14.  I believe we all must admit that they all go hand in hand, and must be understood as one complete unfolding of a truth revealing the final week of Daniel's seventy weeks prophecy, which the NT prophecy break down the last week into two 3 1/2 years of prophetic revelation from death of Jesus Christ, until his coming again to gather together his virgin wife, that had not defiled herself with women~those that follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth.  Bible prophecy can easily humble us, and the reason being is this: for just as soon as we think we have a pretty solid corner of it, then we understand that maybe we may not; knowing that possibility, it brings us to total dependant upon the Spirit of God, to guide us safely through the mudding waters of what he have learned over the years that is against God's truth, and also to help us to retain what we are convinced to be the truth, so that we ourselves are not continuously being confused, and that we can take what we understand and present the truth in a way that we can give light instead of confusing God's saints even more than what they already are. Brother, I do not believe any one man has perfect truth on Daniel and Revelation, and other related sections that are connected with those two books~but, I do believe we can have a very sound understanding of its overall truths. I have learned over the years that truths come a little here and a little there over a long period of time; and, no one person has it all.  I might add we all will leave this world missing some truths~it's part of our falling nature in having trouble understanding hidden truths....I only wish that it is not so, but by experience and to our sorrow, grief and anguish of spirit, it is so. To believe otherwise is not to be sober minded, but high minded.  Okay my brother, here it is for whatever it is worth to the profit of God's elect and to the glory of our most blessed Lord Jesus I offer my feeble efforts. This is fresh off the press, so to speak.

Quote
Revelation 13:1~"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

"And saw a beast~"John's beast is not a new beast, that just show up in John's day when he pinned this vision that he saw; this beast has been here from the beginning of the nations of this world.  What John sees is the final attempt of this beast to destroy the holy seed and truth from out of Mystery Babylon, that great city that's full of abominations, that both its king's (and we might add.... the real king of Mystery Babylon, the devil himself) and its people are deceived by and are in loved with and serve as their ultimate source of happiness and pleasures

We must first establish two truths: Mystery Babylon and the beast are one;
Quote
Revelation 14:8-10~"And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:"
Mystery Babylon and the beast are one and the same in John's Revelation of Jesus Christ, that we are now considering. Miss this, and one cannot end up with truth concerning the beast of Revelation. Chapter 14~John does not separate Babylon from the beast, but considers them one and same.

Why did John used the word beast to describe Mystery Babylon, that great city, whose king is the angel from the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.  Again, why are the lost called, or, are referred to as "beast" by John here, and by other apostles and prophets elsewhere? Psalm 49:20; 73:22; Titus 1:12; 2nd Peter 2:11-12; and Jude verses 9,10? Even though beast have certain admirable traits that humans do not possess, (strength, speed, etc.) yet one thing they all (both wild beast and the man void of the Spirit of God) have in common is that they all are without true understanding of their purpose of existence, and their Creator~Jehovah God. Beast is a very fitting description of the man void of the Spirit of God, especially more so, are one's empowered by the devil himself to fulfill his evil desires.

"beast rise up out of the sea"~The origin of this beast should not be a problem to discerned, since John said that the beast rise up out of the sea. By comparing Revelation 17:1 with verse 15 of the same chapter and the angel's interpretation of verse one, then we must conclude and understand that the beast arises from all people of this world...wheresoever the many waters of this earth go, there one will find the beast of Revelation, and those who have his mark. Consider:

Quote
Revelation 17:1 and verse 15~"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:...............And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."

"having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns"~Again, we allow scriptures to interpret John's beast seven heads and ten horns for us. Again the angel with John in chapter seventeen explained to John and us, seven heads and ten horns for us, so there's no need to speculate, or listen to man's interpretation, because it's freely given to us.
Quote
Revelation 17:9-13~"And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast."
We know from reading Daniel that mountains represent kingdom's. What I find very interesting concerning these ten kings, is that when the "little horn rises to power, three of these kings fall before him.
Quote
Daniel 7:20~"And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
I take these kings that fell to represent the three most professed Christians nations at that time, which would be America, Great Britain, and Australia, as they too succumb slowly, but surely to the same spirit of the Hellenistic Empire of seeking after natural wisdom, philosophy, pleasure. etc. 

"upon his heads the name of blasphemy"~Upon all of his HEADS the name of blasphemy, which shows that all of these kings in their latter power during the period of Satan being loosed from being restrained by the Spirit of the Living God, they all will be of one mind in their manner of living free of thinking that there is a God in heaven, to whom man must give account of his thoughts and deeds, being created by Him~God is not part of their world, but MAN being lifted up as the supreme wisdom of this world, and man's desires as the ultimate end of his existence. God's doctrines are rejected and despised, and his religion of Salvation from sins and condemnation are for the weak minded and those unable to think for themselves, or defend for themselves, who need such things to trust in, but their wisdom is so much greater than to submit to such pitiful and weak means of seeking happiness from. They consider themselves as the highest source of wisdom under the sun, and they boastfully show it in their living and with their voices. What brought these kings and their nation to this point was the preaching of false prophets who lifted man up to heights, where the holy scriptures do not lift man to! After many years of listening to false prophets speaking of man's inner virtue and worth, they begin to believe it and eventually wanted nothing to do with the God of the holy scriptures! 

Quote
Revelation 13:2~"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Tomorrow...I am NOT going to answer any post until I at least get through verse two, but truly prefer to wait until I'm totally finished. For reading if anyone is interesting I would suggest Daniel chapter seven.
« Last Edit: Wed Jan 27, 2016 - 07:36:35 by RB »

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #16 on: Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 05:02:59 »
Quote
Revelation 13:2,3~"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast." 

The beast from the sea is covered in the first ten verses of Revelation thirteen.

"And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion"~John's beast had the "likeness of" or, the characteristics that we identify these beast with, when they come to our minds of what make them that unique particular beast.  The beast was like unto a leopard, with feet as a bear and a mouth as a lion. As we said  in our post above, John's beast has been here from the beginning of time~this beast is without question derived from Daniel 7, where the lion typified the strong Babylonian empire, the bear typified the ravenous Medo-Persian coalition, and the leopard typified the speed and agility of the Greeks. So here Revelation 13, we have the same wild animals but in reverse order (because John is looking back in time). The mention of these wild beasts shows that Daniel's Fourth Kingdom ~ especially during the great Tribulation, spoken of by both Daniel and Christ will incorporate all the attributes of the preceding three epochs of Daniel's vision.

Since Revelation thirteen is taken straight from Daniel's prophecy, then I think it would be wise to take a journey to Daniel and point out a few things that would better helps us to follow John's prophecy of the same event.   

The Vision of the Four Beasts in Daniel 7, provides critical "additional details" about the four kingdoms revealed first in Nebuchadnezzar's dream recorded in Daniel chapter two. What is very revealing, at least to me, is that in Daniel  chapter seven, the fourth kingdom of his vision, was not the Roman empire, but the last kingdom that shall be here when Christ comes, to destroy Nebuchadnezzar's image, that was STILL here by the way (in one sense) when Christ, the Stone that was cut out of the mountain without hands, comes and destroys. Based upon that revealed truth, and of the additional information provided by Daniel's visions and interpreted by an angel~ the iron of Nebuchadnezzar's image with ten toes that were mixed with clay, could not be the Roman empire, because it is not so in Daniel's visions, which further adds details to Daniel chapter two. Also, the vision of the Ram and the Goat  in Daniel 8, expands on the "little horn" or the end-time Antichrist, introduced in the preceding vision. The Prophecy of the Seventy Weeks in Daniel 9, provides intriguing chronological insights into the Lord's first and second comings, with emphasis on (all of Daniel's visions add emphasis on the same time frame) the final "half week" of end-time desolation in the church, the great falling away, where professors would rather have fables, than truth. I want to come back and give reasons why we believe that the third kingdom in Daniel 2,7, and 8, has prophetic significance in God's biblical prophetic timeline~What nation in the NT typifies the Gentiles nations? Why did Paul always used the term Jews and Greeks as a synonym for the human race. Interesting is it not? Paul never used the expression "the Jews and Romans," despite Rome ruling the know world at that time.  More later.....   
 
« Last Edit: Sat Jan 30, 2016 - 05:14:12 by RB »

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #17 on: Sun Jan 31, 2016 - 06:38:01 »
Daniel's interpretation of king Nebuchadnezzar's dream that he dreamed, and his four visions that he had, and that were explained to him by an angel holds "one" the keys that unlocks the mysteries of Revelation thirteen where we see the fruitrition of the fourth kingdom of Daniel's vision~the very one that Daniel himself was most interested in and that concerned him the most, and also that much trouble him.
Quote
Daniel 7:15-25~"I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever. Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them; Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom. Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of THIS kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

A few thoughts: According to God's biblical timeline of bible prophecy, there has only been three kingdoms ruling this world beginning with Nebuchadnezzar and going to the start of the fourth kingdom which will be the final kingdom whereby the king of fierce countenance rules through nations to successfully work his evil intentions. The first three we all can agree on, for there is no room for disagreement.
Quote
Daniel 7:3-8~"And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things."
By carefully reading Daniel we can know precisely the kingdoms (from Daniel to the end of this world) that shall arise and leave their mark in biblical history. We all know from Daniel that the first kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar's dream was Babylon:
Quote
Daniel 2:36-38~"This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold."
We also know from Daniel chapter eight the two that followed Babylon, and they are:
Quote
Daniel 8:17-21~"So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be. The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia. And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king."
So, now we know the first three kingdoms from Daniel's day until the fourth kingdom arises, which will be the last one. Some interesting thoughts concerning the third king/kingdom that helps us to determine the final king/kingdom.  The great horn between the eye of the third king was broken, and up in it's place came up four horns out of THAT NATION, but with lesser power than the first king/kingdom. The angel said these words:
Quote
Daniel 8:23-25~And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand."
This is Daniel fourth kingdom that we are considering in Revelation 13. When the Grecian kingdom fell and out of that kingdom arose four kingdoms~ (basically covering the entire world...north south, east and west) those four kingdoms out of the Grecian empire took with them their culture, etc.~ that would form the world's thinking and living until the very end of this world when the fourth and finally kingdom completely takes this world over under the power of its king, the devil himself, both religiously, and every way imaginable.

Before going to Revelation to consider the fourth kingdom, allow us to say a few things why the scriptures considers John's beast as the fourth and final kingdom that followed the Grecians, and truly had the same attributes of the first three kingdoms of Daniel's visions ALL in fourth kingdom.

"The Prophetic Significance of the Greeks"~As we have seen, the breaking of the goat's single horn into four represents the dividing of the Grecians empire among four into four kingdoms. However, given the end-time nature of the prophecy ~"for at the time of the end shall be the vision"~ Daniel 8:17.......... we know there's a deeper meaning to these horns, as the following points will confirm: The four horns are said to arise "towards the four winds of heaven." Therefore, by use of this term, we suspect that God is talking in Daniel 8:8 about something that will have worldwide impact. That is, it will not be limited to the Hellenistic realm. Also, in Daniel 8, the four horns continue until "the time of the end" Daniel 8:17. Therefore, they must have special significance beyond the literal divisions of Greece's empire, which continued for only a few centuries after its king's death. In light of these points, one must conclude that the four horns typify more than just the fourfold division of the Greek empire. Accordingly, I believe that they also represent the era of the Gentiles, that begun shortly after this division.  In Daniel 8 the four horns represent all the Gentile powers, or Greek-influenced nations, that have arisen since Greek fell. Importantly, as Daniel 8:17 confirms, these four horns apply all the way to the end of time, meaning that they also incorporate the Fourth Kingdom. Not surprisingly, then, this kingdom is reported in Rev 13:2 to be "like unto a leopard," or like unto the Greeks in character. Thus, in the four horns of the Greek empire, we see a dual fulfilment of prophecy. Historically, the horns typify Greece's divided empire. Spiritually, they typify the nations of the world. The dual fulfilment is fitting. Of all empires, the modern world owes most to Greece, as its achievements – in art, politics, science, technology, philosophy and civics – form the foundation of Western society. Concerning this legacy, Charles Freeman writes:

The Greeks provided the chromosomes of Western civilization. One does not have to idealize the Greeks to sustain that point. Greek ways of exploring the cosmos, defining the problems of knowledge (and what is meant by knowledge itself), creating the language in which such problems are explored, representing the physical world and human society in the arts, defining the nature of value, describing the past, still underlie the Western cultural tradition . . . However, the Greeks went much further than merely to provide a language. They could stand back and assess their language as a means of expressing ideas and of sustaining power and influence . . . The analysis of language was part of an intellectual experience whose range is astonishing. It includes the foundations of political thought, ethics, metaphysics, drama, mathematics, scientific enquiry, including medicine, ways of presenting art, the presentation of the past. These areas were not only mapped out but the fundamental questions which form the core of these subject disciplines were isolated. What is the meaning of existence? What is it to live a good life? Are numbers a purely abstract phenomenon or do they relate to some form of other reality? Is there a world beyond this one that can be grasped through reason? Are there some underlying physical laws that might explain the nature of matter? Is human nature intrinsically good or does it have to be molded by appropriate laws? Are moral values relative to the situation or absolute? . . . The Greeks never shrank from dealing with the mysteries of human existence. [The Greek Achievement, Charles Freeman, Penguin 1999, p.434ff]

The reach of Hellenism also underpinned the spread of the Gospel. This occurred in at least two principal ways. First, the Greek invention of philosophical enquiry permitted a degree of sophistication in religious debate unheard of before then. This allowed the merits of Christianity to be discussed in a reasoned, intellectual way (Acts 17:1-4; 18:4). Second, many nations in that day spoke Greek, owing to the scope of Alexander's conquests. This enabled the New Testament Gospel (written also in Greek) to spread far and wide.

The Jews, Greeks and Romans. That the Greeks typify the Gentile nations is also confirmed in the New Testament writings of Paul:
Quote
1st Corinthians 1:23,24~But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Again:
Quote
Romans 1:16~For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek .
Again:
Quote
Romans 1:16~For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Rome is never mentioned prophetically in Scripture, unlike Babylon, Persia and Greece, all of which are specifically mentioned. This means that the last ancient kingdom of prophetic note in the Bible is Greece.

When we understand that Rome was ultimately a Hellenistic successor state – as were the European empires that followed – we can appreciate why God stopped at the Greeks, and why succeeding empires are considered to be under Greek dominion (or influence). With respect to the Romans, this dominion was evident as early as the third century BC. On this, Frank Walbank writes:

We have not the space here, and it would take us beyond the scope of this study, to look in detail at the manner in which contact with Greece affected all aspects of Roman life from the third century onward. Soldiers returning from eastern campaigns and Greeks coming to Rome as hostages, envoys, detainees, traders, professional men or slaves familiarized the Romans with the Greek language and Greek ways. Doctors and philosophers brought Greek skills and a Greek pattern of education . . . The plunder of cities such as Syracuse or Corinth brought Greek works of art to Rome and whetted the appetites of Roman nobles for more . . . The culture of Greece, both the older classical authors and writers of the contemporary hellenistic world, gave the writers of Rome models and the stimulus to create an indigenous Roman literature. It is impossible to imagine Roman masterpieces of the late republic and early empire without the hellenic element . . . For about three centuries, from the time of Flamininus onwards, most educated Romans were bilingual and open to the full impact of hellenistic culture. Roman philosophy was a part of Greek philosophy, Roman art was developed from Greek forerunners . . . Eventually, with the setting up of the empire, the whole Mediterranean was to coalesce into a single cultural continuum in which many aspects of the hellenistic world lived on, adapted to the provincial organization imposed from Rome. [The Hellenistic World, F.W. Walbank, Fontana 1992. p. 247ff]

In consideration of these facts, we should not underestimate the importance of Greece in God's governance of history, and how the Greek legacy has shaped end-time prophecy. Concerning the Prophetic Significance of the Greeks, I'm indebted to men that have gone on before me whose labors enable me to see the significance of the Greeks, and bible prophecy.  Before leaving Daniel consider:
Quote
Daniel 8:13-14~"Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily (sacrifice), and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden underfoot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. "
If these 2300 days are one year for one day~then we are very close to the end of the world. Of course the day and hour is in the secret will of God Almighty, yet we are not ignorant of the times and seasons! Greece fell around 330, or there about. The transgressions are almost come to the full, if they have not already.  Let us go to Revelation 13.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 31, 2016 - 07:21:31 by RB »

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #18 on: Sun Jan 31, 2016 - 21:14:49 »
RB  -  Just to address your very last point regarding Daniel 8:13-14...

Although Daniel does substitute a day for a year in his 70 Weeks prophecy of Daniel 9, the same substitution cannot and is not made here in Daniel 8:13-14 for the 2,300 days until the sanctuary is cleansed.  Check the context of the LXX.

"And I heard one saint speaking, and a saint said to a certain one speaking, How long shall the vision continue, even the removal of the sacrifice, and the bringing in of the sin of desolation; And how long shall the sanctuary and host be trampled?  And he said to him, Evening and morning there shall be two thousand and three hundred, and then the sanctuary shall be cleansed."

This is similar to Genesis 1:5.  "...and there was evening and there was morning, the first day."  (Not years.)

This temple "cleansing" took place under Judas Maccabeus in 165 BC.  It was a restoration of the temple that had been desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanes IV.  This Syrian king had trampled the host and the temple ever since he installed an idol of Zeus in the temple and banned the observance of the Jewish religion.  Once the Maccabees had ejected Antiochus' rule by their resistance, Judas Maccabeus restored and re-dedicated this temple, and a feast to honor this event was added to the yearly festival events celebrated by the Jews.  Christ Himself was present in Jerusalem for this "Feast of Dedication" that took place in the winter (John 10:22-23). 

This "2,300 days" is not a prophetic vision that can be used to date the time of the world's end.  (Actually, Dan. 8:17 in the LXX reads "...Understand, son of man: for yet the vision is for an appointed time.")  Nothing at all about the end of human history in this passage.  We are not waiting for a non-existent temple to be cleansed for that time to arrive. 
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 08, 2018 - 10:28:51 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline Jsta Babbler

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
  • Manna: 2
  • Jst a Lost Pilgrim trying to find his way Home
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #19 on: Mon Feb 01, 2016 - 00:30:36 »


God asks Job
Ch.38:1
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge ?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man;
for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.


Job ch 41
1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook?
or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose?
or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
.....
7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons?
or his head with fish spears?
8 Lay thine hand upon him,
remember the battle, do no more.
9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain:
shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
...
10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up:
who then is able to stand before me?


12 I will not conceal his parts, nor his power,
nor his comely proportion.
13 Who can discover the face of his garment?
or who can come to him with his double bridle?

14 Who can open the doors of his face?
his teeth are terrible round about.
15 His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
16 One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17 They are joined one to another,
they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
18 By his neesings a light doth shine,
and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
.....
25 When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid:
by reason of breakings they purify themselves.

( Ahh; Crap thier Drawers, Poop their Panties )
26 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold:
the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.
27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.
28 The arrow cannot make him flee:
slingstones are turned with him into stubble.
29 Darts are counted as stubble:
he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.
30 Sharp stones are under him:
he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.
31 He maketh the deep to boil like a pot:
he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.
32 He maketh a path to shine after him;
one would think the deep to be hoary.

33 Upon earth there is not his like,
who is made without fear.
34 He beholdeth all high things:
he is a king over all the children of pride.



Rev. 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea,
and saw a beast rise up out of the sea,
having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns,
and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.


And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast:
and they worshipped the beast, saying
,
Who is like unto the beast ?
who is able to make war with him ?

1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook?
or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose?
or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
???   ???   ???
 ::frown::
he is a king over all the children of pride.

____________________________________________ ________________________

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling,
and to present you faultless
before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour,
be glory and majesty, dominion and power,
both now and ever. Amen.

 ::eatingpopcorn:
« Last Edit: Mon Feb 01, 2016 - 00:43:45 by Jsta Babbler »

Offline Jsta Babbler

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 73
  • Manna: 2
  • Jst a Lost Pilgrim trying to find his way Home
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #20 on: Mon Feb 01, 2016 - 15:07:32 »
Numbers 21
And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea,
to compass the land of Edom:
and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way.

5 And the people spake against God, and against Moses,
Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness?
for there is no bread, neither is there any water;
and our soul loatheth this light bread.

6 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people,
and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.

7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said,
We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee;
pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us.
And Moses prayed for the people.

8 And the LORD said unto Moses,
Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole:
and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten,
when he looketh upon it, shall live.

9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole,
and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man,
when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived


John 3::10
Jesus answered and said unto him,
Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things
......

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,
even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish,
but have eternal life.



 ::headscratch::
____________________________________________ ____________________________

Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling,
and to present you faultless
before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
To the only wise God our Saviour,
be glory and majesty, dominion and power,
both now and ever. Amen.

 ::eatingpopcorn:

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #21 on: Mon Feb 01, 2016 - 16:44:54 »
This temple "cleansing" took place under Judas Maccabeus in 165 BC, 2,300 days after the high priest Jason, (the "Prince of princes") was deposed by Antiochus in 171 BC (Daniel 8:25).Menelaus, his rival, promised a more substantial bribe to Antiochus than Jason in exchange for having himself appointed high priest in Jason's place.  He was accused by another ex-high priest of robbing the temple to acquire the funds for this bribe, and played a major part in plaguing the faithful Jews in his loyalty to Antiochus Epiphanes. 
I'm going to be short, since I refuse to get sidetrack......concerning your personal thoughts above~I will say to you as the great Reformer Martin Luther said concerning the abominations of the "Relics of the saints" that the RCC uses to make money: "Who truly know if it so?" Once you leave the preserved scriptures of truth, you have left the only source of TRUTH. Now concerning the 2300 days of Daniel eight, I said carefully:
Quote
If these 2300 days are one year for one day~then we are very close to the end of the world. Of course the day and hour is in the secret will of God Almighty, yet we are not ignorant of the times and seasons! Greece fell around 330, or there about. The transgressions are almost come to the full, if they have not already.  Let us go to Revelation 13.
I'm still out on being dogmatic concerning this~but will add this: there is another interpretation that may be closer to the truth than that one, that I did not mentioned in my post, and it is this: The 2300 days of Daniel could very well be 2300 literal days of the Antichrist ruling (NOT a single one, but many) in the final days of the great tribulation period just before this world ends, which you also reject. But, if God wills, then maybe we can consider this more after I'm finished with Revelation thirteen. You can comment all you desire, and I would that you would do so, for I would love to hear your views so we can test both ours and yours with the scriptures.
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 02, 2016 - 07:20:15 by RB »

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #22 on: Tue Feb 02, 2016 - 08:33:44 »
Quote
Revelation 13:1~"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."
Briefly I will cover a couple of points that we have not as of yet covered. 

"having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns,"~In Revelation 12, a more lesser picture of the dynasty of Satan's rule  through those who have his mark in their foreheads and in the right hand~when John saw a dragon with seven heads and ten horns and only seven crowns.
Quote
Revelation 12:3~"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads."
In Revelation 13  the beast had seven heads; ten horns and ten crowns. We believe that toward the latter end of Satan's reign, three of these kings shall fall as they will become the last haven for God's saint to find refuge from the persecution of the Red Dragon. They will be that wilderness where the people of God found some freedom from religious persecution, of the Red Dragon. Remember:
Quote
Daniel 7:20~"And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
As we understand Daniel and Revelation, Satan's seven heads correspond to the following divisions in Biblical Timeline History: The Fall to the Flood; The Flood to Egypt; The Rule of Egypt; Babylon (Daniel's First Kingdom); Medo-Persia (Daniel's Second Kingdom); The Dominion of Greece (Daniel's Third Kingdom, from its first king, and after it was divided, to the end-times); The Kingdom of Iron and Clay~Daniel's end-time Fourth Kingdom. What he have before us in Revelation 13, more information is given concerning the most powerful time ever of Satan's rule. It is when he is loosed during the final years of the Fourth Kingdom (the seventh head of the beast) to arise as the Antichrist~the "eighth" king of Revelation 17:11, who is of the seven, beginning with the fall of Adam and Eve.  The Fourth Kingdom of Daniel is the last kingdom that has materialized into the final kingdom that Satan shall use to make his last attempt to get the world to wonder after him, and to reject and blaspheme Heaven and all that is therein, including God, and his Son Jesus Christ. Satan shall be loosed from God's holy restraint upon him, because of the wickedness and abominations coming to its fullness. Satan shall have power that he's never had before to seduce and to deceive with, as men become lovers of themselves and pleasure more than loving God, truth and righteousness. Matthew 24; 2nd Thess. 2; 2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5...etc. THis beast of Revelation 13, will have all of the attributes of Daniel's beast, but even more stronger then them, since the devil knows that he has but a short time.
Quote
Revelation 13:4~ "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? "
The unsaved worship him simply by leading their normal, sinful lives, without regarding God in all of their thoughts. Men worship the devil, when they refuse to acknowledge God, in their life. Whether or not they will admit it, matters little, it is still true. When people serve the flesh and all of its pleasure that this world has to offer~and encourage their children to do the same, then they in truth end up worshipping devils and offering their children upon altars to evil spirits. Children are started out in sports and other things at such an young age, that is almost unbelievable, and without question unheard of until the last fifty years or so. All their parents are doing are sacrificing their little ones to the spirit of this world. Men of of this world are so convinced that what they have is so wonderful, that in truth it causes them to wonder after the beast. They marvel at its advancements in this and that~they marvel of the security which this world give them, etc.
Quote
Revelation 13:5-7~"And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."
Later     
 
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 02, 2016 - 16:20:22 by RB »

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #23 on: Tue Feb 02, 2016 - 16:15:55 »
RB  -  Here is one simple scripture reference below that proves when the 3rd Greek beast of Daniel 7:6, (the brass kingdom), had already "had its dominion taken away" and was "left to other people" (as Daniel 7:12 and Daniel 2:44 says).  This was to make way for the "dreadful and terrible" 4th beast of Daniel 7:7, (the iron kingdom, which is the same as the leopard/bear/lion beast from the sea in Rev. 13).

Read again the account in Acts 16 regarding the young woman possessed with the spirit of divination and how Paul cast out this spirit.  This city of Philippi is described in Acts 16:12 as the chief city of Macedonia (Greece) and a ROMAN COLONY.  This had been the case ever since the decisive battle of Philippi, when dominion over it was given to Octavian and Antony in 42 BC.

The citizens of Philippi themselves proudly proclaim this in Acts 16:20-21.  "And brought them (Paul and Silas) to the magistrates, saying These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, BEING ROMANS."

Notice, they freely admit to being under Roman law.  Greek culture may have been prevalent in Roman society, but its "dominion had been taken away" (Daniel 7:12) to make way for the iron kingdom of Rome - the beast from the sea in Rev. 13:1-2, with its sequence of 10 crowned emperor horns.
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 07, 2017 - 23:08:40 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline PeteWaldo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by grace through faith
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #24 on: Wed Feb 03, 2016 - 04:26:25 »
As we said  in our post above, John's beast has been here from the beginning of time~this beast is without question derived from Daniel 7, where the lion typified the strong Babylonian empire, the bear typified the ravenous Medo-Persian coalition, and the leopard typified the speed and agility of the Greeks. So here Revelation 13, we have the same wild animals but in reverse order (because John is looking back in time).


You detailed three successive physical empires. Daniel's prophecy being forward-looking toward their fulfillment and John's looking back through time. During John's day the physical Roman Empire occupied the same seat as those ancient kingdoms, as the beast that "is" through John's 1st century eyes. John's prophecy also mentioned a beast that had "not yet come", or to arrive in his future. It may not fit with your desire to abandon hermeneutics to turn around and put your effort into spiritualizing away the obvious to fit your pre-conceived notions, but what physical kingdom conquered the Roman Empire to take possession of the seat that the succession of ancient kingdoms occupied?











I view the beast of Revelation 13 and John's 8 beasts as being more about the physical and historical state of God's people, through an ethnographic perspective, from Egypt through the final foe of God's people in the Holy Land and surrounding areas. With virtually everyone in John's whole "world" today being marked by the name of the beast - Islam.

Strong's (abbreviated): world
New Testament Greek Definition:
3625 oikoumene {oy-kou-men'-ay}
1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in
distinction from the lands of the barbarians
1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/could-the-mark-of-the-beast-be-a-prophecy-that-is-already-fulfilled-by-islam/



While I understand the scarlet beast described later in Revelation, deals more with the spiritual condition of mankind and subjects such as false worship and worldliness of men, throughout that same period.
« Last Edit: Wed Feb 03, 2016 - 06:56:28 by PeteWaldo »

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #25 on: Thu Feb 04, 2016 - 05:04:07 »
RB  -  Here is one simple scripture reference below that proves when the 3rd Greek beast of Daniel 7:6, (the brass kingdom), had already "had its dominion taken away" and was "left to other people" (as Daniel 7:12 and Daniel 2:44 says).  This was to make way for the "dreadful and terrible" 4th beast of Daniel 7:7, (the iron kingdom, which is the same as the leopard/bear/lion beast from the sea in Rev. 13). Read again the account in Acts 16 regarding the young woman possessed with the spirit of divination and how Paul cast out this spirit.  This city of Philippi is described in Acts 16:12 as the chief city of Macedonia (Greece) and a ROMAN COLONY.  This had been the case ever since the decisive battle of Philippi, when dominion over it was given to Octavian and Antony in 42 BC. The citizens of Philippi themselves proudly proclaim this in Acts 16:20-21.  "And brought them (Paul and Silas) to the magistrates, saying These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, And teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, BEING ROMANS."Notice, they freely admit to being under Roman law.  Greek culture may have been prevalent in Roman society, but its "dominion had been taken away" (Daniel 7:12) to make way for the iron kingdom of Rome - the beast from the sea in Rev. 13:1-2, with its sequence of 10 crowned emperor horns.
This is true, and I believe this as well, that Greece's dominion under its first king (Alexander the great, so they say) was taken way, and in its place it was divided toward the four winds of heaven, or world wide~yet that fourth kingdom in GOD'S BIBLICAL TIMELINE is not Rome, but the final kingdom under the rule of Red Dragon/Satan. Yes, Rome was in power after Greece, but God did not recognized them as the fourth beast of Daniel 2; 7-12; or Revelation 13; and neither should we! That's the key that unlocks the Mystery of Babylon.... which is this world's system, which includes its all of its false religion, and powers that be, with non-religionist people.  The Greek culture/influence as we mentioned above, is what takes us to the fourth beast of Daniel's vision. Which is what we have in Revelation 13. Peter is correct when he said that the three previous Empire's were physical empire, yet Daniel's fourth beast was diverse from all of the former one's, mainly concerning the little horn which came up among them~which I hope to address very shortly. The point that I want to address next is what Peter brought up, which is a very good point to address and seemly the hardest one, at least from my position. One thing for sure, all camps have hurdles that must be crossed at some point.  Peter said:
Quote
During John's day the physical Roman Empire occupied the same seat as those ancient kingdoms, as the beast that "is" through John's 1st century eyes.
Brother I believe this as well, until only recently when I knew that it would not fit God's timeline of the Biblical powers that be. I'm coming back shortly today and consider the power that "IS"  through John's 1st century understanding. 
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 04, 2016 - 05:08:39 by RB »

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #26 on: Thu Feb 04, 2016 - 14:27:23 »
RB  -  As long as you don't start re-defining what "IS" is!  That starts playing with the dictionary, as some of our politicians have been known to do......

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #27 on: Thu Feb 04, 2016 - 15:30:54 »
RB  -  As long as you don't start re-defining what "IS" is!  That starts playing with the dictionary, as some of our politicians have been known to do......
  3"R"~ How long have you known me? Many years, so you should know that one thing for sure, I refused to play with scriptures, either through using other translations, using the so-called Greek by changing a meaning of a word that will not support my understanding; or, any other means that would allow me to escape dealing honestly with the word of God, as God gave it to us, and preserved the same, according to his promise to us from Psalm 12 and other places...... that's not who I am, now is it? John explains the meaning "is" as he meant it in Revelation 17.
Quote
1st John 2:18~Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
There is the one that IS, but he shall yet come in and with much more fullness than at any period of this world's history! What better person to explain "that IS".
Quote
Revelation 17:8-14~"The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; (does not have his full power, but under God's restraint) and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, (at the time when God restores his power that he lost at the cross, when a stronger than him overcame him) and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, (as they fill their bellies with the lust they shall be in abundance for them)  whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, (OT when Satan ruled this world almost totally, by God's permission of course) and is not, (the prince of this world was cast out at the cross, as far as having total power to deceive the whole world, as he had aforetime done so successfully) and yet is. And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, (mountain are kingdoms in Daniel)on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings (this prove that the mountains are kingdom's): five are fallen, and one is, (The mystery of iniquity that has been here from the very beginning, and was here working against the apostles, just as John said in 1st John 2:18)   and the other is not yet come; (this is when Satan is loose for a little season during the great tribulation spoken of by both Daniel~7-12;  and Christ~Matthew 24; , and Paul~2nd Thess. 2 ) and when he cometh, he must continue a short space (or, a little season of Revelation 20). And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, (the last pitch of Satan to destroy the elect) and is of the seven (Satan has been behind and worked through all of the evil kingdoms that have been here from the fall of man), and goeth into perdition. And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour (little season, short space; five months, etc. all having the same meaning) with the beast. These have one mind, (The MARK of the beast in their foreheads!)  and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."
Who has the wisdom of God and can understand these things?
« Last Edit: Thu Feb 04, 2016 - 15:36:34 by RB »

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #28 on: Thu Feb 04, 2016 - 21:37:02 »
RB  -  Apologies, I should have stuck a smiley icon on my last comment.  It's far too easy for a lame attempt at humor to be misunderstood online.  No offense intended.

I do have some points of agreement with your comment above.  There is no doubt Satan has worked behind and through the evil intentions of kingdoms in an effort to deceive mankind.  I would also agree that the "one mind" operating simultaneously in the ten kings could be the equivalent of the "mark of the beast in their foreheads".  I can also see the 5 months of torment being part of the "short season" and the "little time" - at the very end of the short season, that is. 

But I have to part company with you when you equate Satan with the beast and/or the Antichrist.  Here are two scripture reasons why I believe that to be impossible.  First, they are separated as two distinct objects of homage in Rev. 13:4, "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they (also) worshipped the beast..."(the leopard/bear/lion beast from the sea in Rev. 13:2)  How can Satan give power to the sea beast if he is the beast himself?  For another reference, Rev. 16:13 - there are three unclean spirits coming out of the mouth of the dragon, then out of the mouth of the beast, then out of the mouth of the false prophet (who is the same as the beast out of the earth in Rev. 13:11).  There are three different entities being spoken of here, or they wouldn't be listed separately.

When you state that "mountains are kingdoms in Daniel", you must have read something I haven't, because I can't find that connection anywhere in my reading of Daniel.  What I do see is a double referent going on in Rev. 17:9-10.  The heads are, at the same time, both mountains "and they are also kings..."  It's not that the mountains are representing kings.  The heads represent mountains, and the heads also represent kings (not kingdoms, by the way).  A subtle distinction, but in reading Revelation, misinterpreting the minutiae can send you off in the wrong direction, as we all know very well. 

There is also a point we differ on regarding the occasion and effects of Satan being cast out, but that is too far off topic to cover here. 

If you are interested, I will soon be posting a comment that highlights the differences and characteristics of the three Revelation beasts, (the sea beast, the land beast, and the scarlet beast).  And the red dragon, Satan, isn't the same as any one of them.

Offline RB

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 4860
  • Manna: 288
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #29 on: Fri Feb 05, 2016 - 03:54:54 »
RB  -  Apologies, I should have stuck a smiley icon on my last comment.  It's far too easy for a lame attempt at humor to be misunderstood online.  No offense intended.
Brother, I took no offense. Even if your feathers get ruffled, and in turn, you try to do the same to me..... so be it, that's the nature of the beast as the old saying goes. When people disagree with our understanding (all should be tested), we MUST give others the benefit of the doubt, that they as well, are just seeking truth, which all of God's elect should be diligently doing so constantly. Some men have too much pride about their own personal light and gifts~that they get very upset when someone questions their teaching on a given subject, and you should know very well one person that fit this mold very well, ...(JRC).....but, he's not alone, the world are full of such men! I have been humbled too times over forty two years of trying to understand the holy scriptures, but it has been a wonderful journey, one that I would take in a minute again, with less pride than before, by the help of God's mercy.  Concerning your disagreement:
Quote
But I have to part company with you when you equate Satan with the beast and/or the Antichrist.  Here are two scripture reasons why I believe that to be impossible.  First, they are separated as two distinct objects of homage in Rev. 13:4, "And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they (also) worshipped the beast..."(the leopard/bear/lion beast from the sea in Rev. 13:2)  How can Satan give power to the sea beast if he is the beast himself?  For another reference, Rev. 16:13 - there are three unclean spirits coming out of the mouth of the dragon, then out of the mouth of the beast, then out of the mouth of the false prophet (who is the same as the beast out of the earth in Rev. 13:11).  There are three different entities being spoken of here, or they wouldn't be listed separately.
I have no problem understanding the "seemly dilemma" you are faced with. I will come back and address this and the other one as well.
« Last Edit: Fri Feb 05, 2016 - 06:56:24 by RB »

Offline PeteWaldo

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
  • Saved by grace through faith
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #30 on: Sat Feb 06, 2016 - 07:45:14 »
I didn't notice a reply as to why you concur with the same 3 physical kingdoms, but then go on to throw hermeneutics right out the window and spiritualize away the obvious relationship, that identifies the physical kingdom of the final foe of God's people in John's whole "world" that today occupies the same seat as Daniel's lion, bear and leopard did.
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/the-leopard-bear-lion-'beast'-of-revelation-13/msg1055012318/#msg1055012318

In case you didn't notice the thread at the following link, I believe the exegesis presented in this LBL thread is further reinforced through the matter of fact, undeniable, historical succession, of kingdoms that ruled John's whole "world", of his prophecy about the 8 kings/beasts.

Why do you suppose there have only been crickets chirping on that thread since it was posted?
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/john's-eight-kingsbeasts/
« Last Edit: Sat Feb 06, 2016 - 07:52:02 by PeteWaldo »

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • Manna: 7
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #31 on: Sun Sep 24, 2017 - 18:34:27 »
Just an update on a few particulars relative to this older post:

The "SEAT" (or thronos - throne) which the Dragon gave to the Sea Beast of Rev. 13:2 , along with "power, and great authority" is defined for us in Revelation itself.  The very first time we see the DRAGON'S SEAT mentioned is found in Rev. 2:13.  (The Dragon's Seat is the same as Satan's Seat, since the Dragon is equated with the Devil, and Satan, and that Old Serpent in Rev. 12:9.) 

Speaking to the church at PERGAMOS, Jesus through John says, "I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where SATAN'S SEAT is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where SATAN DWELLETH."  So, Satan dwelled at Pergamos, and his seat was at Pergamos.  This seat of the Dragon / Satan in Pergamos was given to the Sea Beast, along with power and great authority, according to Revelation 13:2.  Just when was this seat handed over?  The entire Pergamum kingdom in Asia was handed over to the Roman republic by King Attalus III in 133 BC.  This dying king knew that he had no heir to leave his kingdom to, and rather than have the kingdom fractured into bloody pieces by warring claimants for the throne, he decided to hand it over in an orderly manner as a bequest to the Roman republic.

Pergamos was the capitol of Asia for a time before the capitol was transferred to Ephesus.  It had multiple temples, and was the first city in the east to become an authorized imperial cult center that honored the emperors as gods.  The healing center at Pergamos, called the Asklepion was visited by the nobility of Rome, built in honor of the god of healing whose symbol was, significantly - a serpent.  It had a library second only to the library at Alexandria, a fabulous theater with 80 rows of seats with a dizzying incline, and most importantly for the book of Revelation, the famous altar of the temple of Zeus.  Google pictures of this altar housed in the Berlin museum where it was relocated, and you will see that the ancient historian that classed it as one of the wonders of the ancient world was not far off-base in his estimation.  This 40 ft. tall altar - "Satan's Seat" -  was where Antipas was martyred, as Revelation 13:2 indicated.

If this Dragon's seat, the altar at Pergamos and the kingdom of Pergamum were given to the Sea Beast, then that Sea Beast had to have been a representation of the Roman empire.  The leopard / bear / lion combination for this Sea Beast merely illustrates how the remnant elements of those 3 other world kingdoms and peoples (Babylonian, Medo-Persian, and Greek) had all been incorporated and subsumed into the Roman empire once it rose to power from a republic to an empire.  Daniel 7:7 LXX calls this 4th Beast (the same as the Sea Beast of Rev. 13) "diverse exceedingly" from the others.  Starting as a republic with a Senate, its style of governance was completely different from the former typical arrangement of the power being ultimately concentrated in one individual.

This Sea Beast is described as having the "mouth of a lion" in Revelation 13:2.  Paul himself claimed that he was "delivered from the lion's mouth" when he was released the first time he was brought before Nero in II Timothy 4:17.  The second time he was brought before the emperor, he was not delivered, and was finally martyred by Nero in AD 67. 

Once this Dragon's Seat in Pergamos had been given to the Sea Beast, its new title then became  "the Seat of the Beast".  We find this "Seat of the Beast" again in Revelation 16:10.  There, the 5th vial is poured out upon this "Seat of the Beast, and his kingdom was darkened;"  If the "Seat of the Beast" was once the Seat of Satan in Pergamos, then this verse means that the kingdom of the (Roman) Sea Beast in the location of what used to be the capitol of the kingdom of Pergamum, (or ASIA in other words), was darkened.  This fits the record we have in the New Testament of the province of ASIA being "darkened".  We know that Paul had once evangelistically covered this entire province of Asia with the gospel, according to Acts 19:10. ("...so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.")  This delightful state of gospel progress did not stay consistent, however.  We have the apostle Paul frankly admitting later in II Timothy 1:15 that "...ALL THEY WHICH ARE IN ASIA BE TURNED AWAY FROM ME..."  This turning away from the gospel which the churches of Asia had formerly embraced is what caused the kingdom of the Sea Beast to be "darkened".

If one thinks about it, this II Timothy 1:15 verse about the defection of all the churches in Asia turning away from Paul helps to date the book of Revelation.  At the time Revelation was written, five of the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 were still in a wavering condition, with warnings to REPENT, or their candlestick would be removed.  Then, in II Timothy 1:15, we are told that ALL ASIA had fallen away from Paul's teaching at that time (written just before Paul's execution in AD 67 - II Tim. 3:6, 4:21).  This "darkening" of the Asian province in Rev. 16:11 takes place when they "REPENTED NOT of their deeds".  So, that means that Revelation MUST have been written before the time that II Timothy was written in AD 67, because not all the churches had left Paul's teaching yet as of Revelation's writing.

Quite a lot of Revelation's mysteries can be removed just by letting it define its own terms.  The "SEAT" of Satan the Dragon is just one example.


Offline Fisherking

  • Junior Member
  • **
  • Posts: 13
  • Manna: 0
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #32 on: Thu Sep 28, 2017 - 23:28:22 »
Few elements in the book of Revelation have received more attention than the "beast" of Revelation chapter 13. This is the infamous "The" "Antichrist" of some future someday for futurists, while partial-preterists generally figure it to have been some 1st century figure like Nero, as having fulfilled the prophecy during that century.

But what might we discover if we apply the third, all but forgotten traditional historicist approach to prophecy, of those great men of God of the Reformation, and as available evidence suggests was the approach of the church up until the eschatologies of futurism and partial-preterism began to come into vogue during the 19th century.

Some that seem to believe they have it all figured out proclaim such as:
"If we want God's interpretation of a matter, the only sound hermeneutic for finding out what He means by what He has inspired written, is to ask Him. We do that by evaluating His Word in comparison to itself. In other words, reading His Word, in the light of His Word. The Bible then becomes its own interpreter and even dictionary."

I couldn't agree more with that sentiment but can church leaders really reconsider their prior indoctrination, or are those words more akin to a wishful hollow unctuous platitude, proclaimed while pressing palms together and gazing skyward?

The methodology of hermeneutics is a powerful tool that is used in the study of literature, poetry and even legal documents, but in the study of scripture perhaps more than anywhere else. Letting scripture define and explain scripture. So what can we discover about this "beast" of Revelation 13 when we apply the methodology of hermeneutics, within the traditional historicist approach to prophecy?

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

So the dragon, Satan, gave this "beast" his "seat" (and power and authority). When we search for an adjacent hermeneutic for the term "leopard", we find Rev 13 is the only such reference in the New Testament, but when we check the Old we find 5 more references, two of which seem most interesting. Particularly in the book of Daniel, where we not only find a leopard, but we find it in the same context of the figurative language of a prophetic dream, along with a bear and lion as well! Now that's hitting the hermeneutic jackpot!

Daniel 7:3  And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
Daniel 7:4  The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings...
Daniel 7:5  And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear...
Daniel 7:6  After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard...

Daniel also describes a fourth beast as:

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth.....
Wow! So we not only find three of the very same figures, but in the same chapter Daniel's prophecy defines a "beast" as a "kingdom", when used in that figurative language!

Dan 7:19 .....and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;
So Daniel's prophecy also assigns the masculine gender to those kingdom "beasts".

No shortage of both Christian and Jewish scholars understand those figures to represent the successive ancient kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and the fourth beast as the Roman Empire, that unfolded in Daniel's future.

So in Revelation we find a composite leopard-bear-lion "beast" kingdom, of which Satan gives "him" his seat. What countries occupy the seats today, that those ancient kingdoms did?

Babylon = Iraq
Medo-Persia = Iran
Greece = Syria-Lebanon


While those countries and various sects of Islam may have theological and political differences, and separate national sovereignty, they are all perfectly united spiritually through the false prophet Muhammad and his Quran. The "sign" that Muhammad "wrought" before his Islamic kingdom "beast". As a result each and every follower of Muhammad is an antichrist as an article of their faith because they must deny and even blaspheme the Son of God, and are even taught that to profess that Jesus is the Son of God, or even to pray in Jesus' name, would be to commit the single most "heinous" and only unforgivable sin ("shirk") in the false prophet Muhammad's kingdom. That's 1.5 billion antichrists - 1/4 of mankind in the world today.

Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Last I checked percentages were at: Iraq 97%, Iran 98%, Syria/Lebanon 90%/60% Islamic. However based on what I have heard lately the Christians have virtually been wiped out in Syria.



Muhammad's followers fight and slay God's people because they are commanded to:

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Surah 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an

Satan, the ruler of the kingdoms of this world, gave the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom beast his power and authority as well, as is made conspicuous through not only 1400 years of Islamic history, but through the murder, mayhem and misery perpetrated by true, fundamental, orthodox followers of Muhammad around much of the world today.
However through an ethnographic hermeneutic, we find that the prophet John's whole "world" has already been consumed by the "beast". Since outside of the tiny little strip of land of Israel, where the rights of Jews, Christians and other non-Muslim Arabs as well as Muslims, are protected by the democracy of the Israeli Jewish State, a near unanimity of the rest of the Middle East carries the name of the beast - Islam - suggesting that the mark of the beast may be a fulfilled prophecy!

Strong's (partial def): world
New Testament Greek Definition:
3625 oikoumene {oy-kou-men'-ay}
1a) the portion of the earth inhabited by the Greeks, in
distinction from the lands of the barbarians

1b) the Roman empire, all the subjects of the empire



Another interesting use of the term "leopard" is in: 
Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? [then] may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

Remember, the Revelation 13:2 beast is "as a leopard".
Individual Muslims can, and do indeed change, as evidenced by over 6 million Muslims coming to Jesus Christ every year in Africa alone.
However anybody that knows anything about Islam, knows it is impossible to change the Quran or Hadith - Islam can't change its spots - since it has been made obvious for all to see, that the ultimate arbiters of Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast" will always be the most evil and murderous among Muhammad's followers, armed with a beheading knife in one hand will being perfectly supported by their Quran and Hadith in the other. If someone were foolish enough to propose changes in Islam's books, it would result in a death sentence for any Islamic scholar that was so clueless and apostate as to even suggest such a thing.
Whether al-Qaeda, the Taliban, The Islamic State, Boko Haram or whichever even more black-hearted and reprobate group arrives in the future, those most willing to murder others in cold blood will obviously be the ultimate arbiters of the false prophet Muhammad's Islamic kingdom "beast".

AP - December 06, 2006 MOGADISHU, Somalia - "Residents of a southern Somalia town who do not pray five times a day will be beheaded, an Islamic courts official said Wednesday, adding the edict will be implemented in three days."

It would seem that sound exegesis through the methodology of hermeneutics, within the traditional historicist approach to prophecy, paints a bulls eye in the middle of Muhammad's back as THE false prophet of the book of Revelation. Yet some among the indoctrinated remain so hermeneutically challenged as to pluck separate terms like beast, little horn, man of sin and antichrist out of their context, and then lump them altogether as if they were all intended to all mean the same thing! But perhaps that was prophesied too!

2 Timothy 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

If this thread gored your particular eschatological ox, it is certainly open to presentation of a more hermeneutically sound exegesis, regarding the identity of the "beast" of Revelation 13:2.


OK, to start with you started off very promising, you actually got the biggest key to solving the riddle, then you went off the tracks by trying to fit the Islamic angle in there, you did not continue following your trail of crumbs so to speak. There are others who do the exact same thing with the RCC angle. I can tell you exactly what the seven headed beast is, and it starts exactly where you did, but I followed the tail of clues over many years, and God via the Holy Spirit gave me the answers.

The Beast is not Nero nor can it be Nero, at last not the Revelation Beast that arises out of the Sea. Thus wrong assumptions can [indeed] lead to wrong conclusions, of course. If we are gong to Texas from Kansas and we get on a Northern Interstate route we will not make Texas, that is for sure.

What then is a Beast? Well Daniel showed us, a Beast is in juxtaposition to Israel always, it either Conquers, Enslaves or Rules Israel, we can see that in Daniel ch. 7, the Lion (Babylon) the Bear (Medo-Persia), the Leopard (Greece) and the Fierce Beast or Fourth Kingdom (Rome). All four Conquered/Ruled Israel. The Little Horn is a fifth Beast mentioned in Dan. ch. 7. Some can't see it, but its clearly there, and he arises 2000 or so years after Rome. Now lets look at Rev. 13 and find all five of these Beasts, the last one being a mere MAN. I don't like posting a lot of scriptures but this is needed to clarify.

Rev. 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns (So this Beast has SEVEN Heads not 4 or even 5), and upon his horns ten crowns (10 Future Kings), and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard (Greece) , and his feet were as the feet of a bear (Persia), and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (Babylon): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death (ROME); and his deadly wound was healed (LITTLE HORN/Man): and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him (MAN)?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

OK, lets put this together and see what we have got. We see that John gave us clues as to who the Seven Headed Beast is in Rev. ch 13 (Lion, Bear, Leopard) and in Rev. ch. 17, the 5 Kings who have FALLEN (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia and Greece), the one who IS (Rome), and one who is NOT YET COME (The Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast). (I can clarify if needed why the KINGS are who they are and why they are called KINGS if Needed.)

A Beast is thus understood, Nero could not be a Beast because the Fourth Kingdom Beast was like all the other Beasts of Daniels, they were Kingdoms, not a Kingdom started by ONE MAN who will never pass his Kingdom on to anyone else. (Which is the case for the Anti-Christ, He starts the Kingdom and is the ONLY KING because he dies as the King and his Kingdom is no more Jesus takes over. Amen)

How do we get Egypt and Assyria? Well that's been established, since there are Seven Heads and Five have Fallen before Rome that is rather easy, Egypt and Assyria are the only two that fit the criteria even remotely.

So in Rev. 13 we have the Lion (Babylon), the Bear (Persia), the Leopard (Greece) Rome the Deadly Wound and the Little Horn who when he conquers Jerusalem HEALS the Mortal Wound for 42 Months.

What was the Mortal Wound then? Well of course like the Beast its figurative, of course !! The Beast is Kingdoms who Conquer/Rule over Israel. Egypt enslaved Israel, Assyria took away the 10 Tribes, Babylon took Israel into Bondage, Persia Ruled Israel for a time and set them free, Greece ruled the Holy land and we all know that Rome ruled Israel, taxed them, presided over Jesus' trial and destroyed the city and the temple in 70 AD.

The Israeli people were dispersed all over the world between 70 AD and 125 AD. There can be NO BEAST when there is NO ISRAEL in the land. A Beast rules over Israel, the people. If being a Beast only meant being a large super power(s) then the United States, Russia, China and even England would be a BEAST if a Beast were nations that ruled the Land then the Ottoman Empire (England) and others would be BEASTS. But that is not the case of course, a Beast is a Nation that Rules over the People Israel, while they are a Nation in their land.

According to Ezekiel Israel would be as Dead Men's Bones, then at the End Times they would come Alive again, and that is what happened in 1948, Israel was reborn as a Nation. (Son of Man, can these Bones live again? Thou knowest Lord.....Good answer by Ezekiel.....SMILE)

So Israel is back in the land, ALIVE AGAIN, after almost 2000 years of being dead. Now, and only now can we have a BEAST again !!! The Mortal Wound was not Rome losing power in 125 AD or so, but it was Rome CEASING to be a Beast over Israel in 125 AD, because Israel was no more. The Little Horn arises some 2000 odd years later and once he CONQUERS Jerusalem, he is called what? A BEAST for 42 Months....THINK....Only 42 Months, he is a BEAST only 42 months, he is around much longer, at least Seven Years, probably 10-20 years, but hes a BEAST for only 42 Months, because he Conquers Jerusalem/Israel and its Peoples. (And they FLEE/ARE PROTECTED for the exact same time period, 1260 Days.)

We can clearly see Daniel calls this Little Horn (MAN) a Beast in Dan 7:11 as does John in Rev. 19:20, both times he is cast into HELL.

Dan. 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Rev. 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This LITTLE HORN BEAST is an END TIME BEAST. He is a MAN not a Kingdom per se.

Offline n2thelight

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 779
  • Manna: 34
    • View Profile
Re: The leopard-bear-lion "beast" of Revelation 13
« Reply #33 on: Sat Sep 30, 2017 - 02:56:30 »
God does not deal in fiction, however, He does speak in parables. This is done by Him to hide the truth from the eyes and ears of those people He does not want to see, and hear His message with understanding. This is pointed out in Matthew 13:11-14.

Within Revelation chapter thirteen there is a great deal of symbolism used. It reveals the coming into existence of a one world system, and at the completion of its growth, that world wide system is ruled by Satan the Antichrist, in a religious capacity. In fact, most of the Christian world will actually think that Satan is Jesus Christ. God uses this symbolism so that those who really don't care to study Scripture, will be deceived.

This chapter speaks of two beasts, but when we separate the two beasts, we see one is a political beast, while the second and last beast is a religious beast. The political beast is a political system, and today it is alive and ruling under the name of "One-worldism". It's title is called the "United Nations". It is under the banner of the United Nations, and it's governing agencies the the entire world is getting together; to work for their so-called "peace".

Through the control of the Kenite organization called the "United Nations", peace talks are carried on in China, North Korea, Ireland, the Middle East, Africa, Europe, Haiti, and on and on. There is peace, peace, talked about everywhere, and it is all brought about to draw all nations of the world into, and under the United Nations control, and that of it's agencies. The peace presented by them and their people is not acceptable in any agreement, unless it meets the United Nations agenda.

Revelation 13:1 "And I [John] stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."

This is John's vision, and the sea that John is standing on and the beast is rising out of represents the masses of peoples of the world. This symbol of the "sea" being people is documented in Revelation 17:15. This "sea", or masses of people are looking to this "beast" [political beast] as their peace system. The "seven heads" are seven dominions of the people, or seven continents of this world body; as even the activities and divisions at the North and South Poles are governed through the United Nations Charter. It covers the entire world land masses.

"Horns" are always symbolic of "power". These "ten horns" are ten agencies, or units of power flowing from this beast, or political system. These horns are the Military force, the world health organization, UNICEF for children, the world bank, the world court, and so on. This is very similar to the system of government given in Genesis 11, under Nimrod.

The "Kenites" pulling strings within the United Nations are trying to bypass God, and create their own salvation. The "Ten crowns" are ten men, or heads of large governments, such as President Clinton, Don Majors of England, and men of Russia, China, Japan, and so on. Each of these men are giving their authority over to the United Nations willfully. This is what the war with Iraq was all about, the yielding of sovereignty to the United Nation, which Saddam refuses to do.

That war was a test of all nations to join in, and give their power over to the UN, for the cause of filling the United Nations agenda. The forces that joined against Iraq, are also causing the trading boundries to disappear world wide, and they make up this political beast. We have the one world political system now in position, and in control. The world is now in the process of being divided into its new horns of power, and the divisions will change present boundaries into new dominions of power.

This system, and governmental order is the same as Satan used in the first earth age, as we saw and read in Revelation 12:3 however there are some major differences Notice that in Revelation 12:3 from the first earth age that the seven heads [individuals] wore the seven crowns. where by in this earth age, under the political beast of the United Nations it is not individual rulers that have the crown but the horns of power, the agencies. They exercise their authority by what the agenda of their agencies are.

Revelation 13:2 "And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority."

Though the one world political system is in place and functioning as a governing body, after it is considered reliable, something will come about to bring down that government.

In the Song of Moses" in Deuteronomy 32:5, the "leopard's spots" are shown to be different than that of God's children's spots. The elect of God know their Messiah, where as those who are not sealed in their minds can not tell the difference between the two, Jesus and Satan. This system is controlled in all ways by the leaders, Kenites. Their control is through the four hidden dynasties or hidden governments, which are focused on Economics [banking, trade and industry], Education, Politics, and Religion.

This political beast has the "feet of a bear", and we know that has to be Russia [Esau]. The mouth of the beast is the "mouth of a lion", which will tare it's prey with his lies and deceitfulness. "And the Dragon gave him his power," and we know the Dragon from Revelation 12:9 is Satan. The driving force within "one worldism" is Satan, with the Kenites, Satan's kids, doing the work. As our young men fight for the United Nation's Forces, we know now what the fight is all about.

We also know the Dragon is the force in every agency of the United Nation, and this is allowing us a better understanding why they do what they do. This is why we see them picking, and selecting what they hold dear, while allowing millions of other people to be slaughtered. The Kenites with their satanic agenda sets the course.

Remember also that this one world system is compared to the Babylonian kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar's day. And just as that kingdom was set up by God to discipline the house of Judah, so also this Kenite kingdom of the end times is to test and discipline the people of this time.

Revelation 13:3 "And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

One of the ten countries in the leadership of the beast "were wounded unto death". How does a office, or government of a country die? Of course in that the political system falls apart. That government then comes back to life. Why? The whole world comes to it's defense to prop it's government up. This can done because the whole world is under the same "one world system".

It was the beast that healed it's own wound. It doesn't take to much thinking to see what nation of immense strength fell, and then was propped up by the world wide system of this political beast. Billions of U.S. and British tax dollars went to Russia, as a gift from the world bank [the world system], and not the American people. Other nations also gave in the name of this Satanic system. All the while the beast received the credit for the donation, for the purposes of the agenda of the political beast.

Revelation 13:4 "And they worshipped the dragon which [because he] gave power [his authority] unto the the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The Christian world will also worship Satan [the Antichrist] and his "one world system", because they will think that he is Christ. It is obvious when you watch the news, to see God fearing doctors and nurses, as well as many other humanitarians, and even children all giving of themselves to others around the world, all in the name of this political beast. It is the stamp of the U.N. that gets the praise, not the individual or a nation, before the public.

The leaders of the United Nations, and it's agencies that have "the teeth of the lions." This verse is alive today, and the whole world is looking to this beast [U.N.] for its food, protection, guidance, medical aid, and so on; and even to the newly set of international trade and commerce treaty laws.

The political beast has another head, and it is the head of an religious beast. When the authority behind this political beast arrives on earth, at that time the people of the world will call him "saviour". That authority [in verse two] is Satan, the dragon, and he is cast onto the earth by Michael.

The "head wound" is not to an individual then, but to a "political system". When one of the major players drops out of that system, it will be in serious trouble of ending. We see also that if the system is world wide, no one could make war with it, for their all part of it.

Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power [authority] was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

When Satan has arrived to rule over this beast, or one world system, and out of his mouth will come all sorts of lies and blasphemies. He has power only because he was given that power and authority from God, as we saw in Revelation 9:1. Now note how long it is for: "forty two months". Remember, all times given in days are given to the children of God of the light, while all times given in months or moons pertain to Satan and his system of darkness. Revelation 9:5, 10 let us know that this time has been shortened to five months for the elects sake.

Daniel 8:22-24 tells us that Satan comes in peacefully, and prosperous, and those within his system will have the same prosperity. Who can fight that promise? How much is your soul worth? Satan is not here now, however, when he arrives as the Antichrist, he will offer you to what ever you think your soul is worth.

Revelation 13:6 "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven."

Satan [the Antichrist] is mad and in rage against God, and all who are God's children, as well as the authorities in heaven, and this is because he just got kicked out of heaven. There is only one group of people that will not accept Satan, and that is God's elect. They know what is to come upon the earth, while all others will worship Satan, and be part of his system.

Revelation 13:7 "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nation."

The only war that exists now will be a spiritual war, a war of words, ideas, concepts, and doctrine. This is why we must have our full armor of God on, as recorded in Ephesians 6:10-20. It spells out the type of warfare and the armor necessary. Satan has power over all other peoples of the earth, because he rules the over his one world system. The "elect of God" will be delivered up to Satan's revival for the purpose of conversion.

Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

The whole world will worship the Antichrist [Satan] as Christ, except those "whose names were chosen from before the foundations of this world." They are the "elect" of God. Also in the group to stand against Satan are the 144,000 of chapter seven. The twelve thousand individuals sealed from each tribe of Israel. These are the only ones God will allow to understand the prophecies of the end times.

The elect's names were written in the "book of life" for the stand they took in the first earth age, that time when Satan fell and took one third of angelic souls with him.

Revelation 13:9 "If any man have an ear, let him hear."

If you have the seal of God, or the knowledge and understanding of end time prophecy in your mind, you can stand against Satan [Antichrist].

Revelation 13:10 "He that leadeth into [if any man is for] captivity [he] shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints."

This is the start of the religious beast system, and is the part that will bring most Christians down. This doesn't do much for you, because it's a Hebrew idiom, translated into Greek, and then into English. It loses a lot along the way. It means that those that are destined to go into captivity, shall go captive. Satan will take them, and deceive them, and God will allow it. However, they can, and more then likely will be saved during the teaching of the Millennium age.

Those that are destined to be killed, will be killed. We know the two witnesses are two destined to be killed. God's election are also held captive by almighty God, and they will witness when called to do so. The witnessing will be done by God's holy Spirit flowing through them.

Revelation 13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

This beast coming up out of the earth looks like a Lamb [Jesus Christ], yet he speaks like a dragon; because he is the dragon [Satan]. He claims to be Jesus, and most Christians will believe him. He has plenty of sweet talk, blessings, wealth and what ever valued price you put on your soul, to sell your soul. Have you thought of what price you would put for your soul?

Revelation 13:12 "And he exerciseth all the power [authority] of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

Satan [the Antichrist] uses all the power and authority he has, because it is given to him by God. God allowed the "one worldism" to take place, because it is in God's plan. He gave us that plan, and that is what we are studying now. It is Satan that will cause the wounded political beast, "one world system" to come back together after it falls apart. Then that system, and all the people on the face of the earth will worship Satan. All, except the elect of God, and those sealed in their minds.

Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

Satan will snap his fingers and lightning will come down from heaven. Satan will bring miracles, and supernatural wonders with him, and these wonders are given by God to perform the test the people of the world.

Revelation 13:14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles [signs] which he had power [it was given him] to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

This is the whole object for the great tribulation. "DECEPTION"! Satan is going to make an image of this "one world system" [religious beast] and breath life into system. Their will be something symbolic created within the system that will cause the whole world to bow. This reminds me of the "image" created in Babylon's "one world government" under king Nebuchadnezzar, in Daniel 3. At that time there were only three that would not bow to the image.

Revelation 13:15 "And he had power [it was given unto him] to give life [breath] unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

Satan while sitting in his temple in Jerusalem is given the power to assign his authority to the new religious beast, the "one world system. He has been given the control of all the people on the earth, and he will require them to worship him as god. Satan [the Antichrist] will require their respect, and he will give protection to them and his system. So both the system, and the Antichrist will demand the respect and worship of all people.

This is in reference to the two witnesses that will be killed, for the trouble they caused to Satan, the people of the earth, and Satan's religious system.

The moment the political beast is healed, it becomes a religious order, and set of moral codes and controls. It will be a copy of Christ's kingdom that will follow, however, it is a complete deception, and cheap imitation.

Revelation 13:16 "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"

This is the "Mark of the beast" which is confusing to many today. This mark is in your hand, and in your forehead. Can a electronic chip be put in your hand, and forehead change your beliefs? I don't think so.

"In your hand" is an idiom that means to do Satan's work. You do the work of Satan [the Antichrist] when you bring others to him, or help in his system. This mark in the hand is speaking in a spiritual sense. "In the forehead" is referring to your mind [brain]. Being deceived by Satan in your mind is when you think he is the true Christ, and in ignorance you worship him. No computer chip will condemn you, for it is your faith that you will be judged by.

Revelation 13:17 "And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name."

If you take the "mark of the beast" it is a matter of whether you have studied God's word, or not. The mark is a matter of knowing that two Christ's are that coming, and the fake christ is coming first. If you do not know the difference, you will worship Satan thinking he is the true Christ, and you will be deceived. You will be in this world when the Antichrist controls it. We must all eat to stay alive, However, we will not get your bread through worshipping the Antichrist, or relying on his system. Satan's rule is five months, and God has warned us in in Malachi, that we had better have a store house for this time.

Learn what you must have to fill your needs, and stock up on it. Learn how to barter, and God will protect you. Satan will try to win you over, however, Do not participate in his system.

Revelation 13:18 "Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Wisdom comes from knowledge, and all wisdom is from God, from wisdom comes understanding. We were told to "count the number of the beast". This was written in Greek, and the Greek word means more then counting numbers. You simple can't understand this meaning if you don't understand this Greek word. The word is #5585 in Strong's Greek dictionary, and it means to "calculate by counting the stones that are warn smooth over a long period of time."

What stones? We were told in chapter two, we would receive a new stone with a new name written on it. This word "count" originated from that word "stone" of chapter two of the book of Genesis. These are the only places in the Bible this word for count, or stone is used. So we must enumerate, or calculate these stones worn smooth over a long period of time. "Their rock is not our Rock, and his stones are not our Stones," is what the overcomers will sing, as the "Song of Moses tells us in Deuteronomy 32. God is our Rock, and Satan is the false rock, but which stones are we to count?

The stones are the number of man, that man is Satan, and if you know Satan you will know his children. Those stones are his children [offspring]. The "mark of the beast" number [6-6-6] then is to count, or know Satan's children over a long period of time. They are the "Kenites", the offspring of Cain, who was the child of Satan, through Eve, who was "beguiled in the Garden of Eden".

Jesus said in Revelation 2 and 3 that the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia were the only acceptable churches to Him, because they knew who the Kenites were. The Kenites were "those who said they were Jews, and lied; because they were of the synagogue of Satan". The seven churches are the seven types of churches existing in these last days. Five are not acceptable to God, while the two are.

https://www.theseason.org/revelation/revelation13.htm

 

     
anything