The Mark of the Beast His Name and the Number of His Name

[Eccl12:13]

Why ask since you believe the Lord is limited to trumps of judgment, or to even one appearing?

I do believe God is limited to the time frame and events HE has set forth.  Just as God said the following;

Gen.9
[11] And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Now we know God could flood the earth again, but He said He would not do it again, so He won't.  Why?

Tit.1
[2] In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Since God can't lie we know He CANNOT return until ALL that was said would happen actually happens.  He even goes on to say the following;

Luke 24
[44] And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


So EVERYTHING that was ever written, MUST happen withing the time periods given.

So when it says;

2 Thes.2
[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The coming of the Lord and the gathering of the saints, SHALL NOT COME, until the man of sin, the Abomination of Desolation, is revealed, then it means just that!

Jesus WILL NOT return until the AOD is made known.

And when the bible says it will be on the following trumpet;

1 Cor.15
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Then we can be assured, Jesus WILL NOT return before (six) trumpets have sounded.

Now if you believe Jesus is going to go back on His word, sobeit.  But the God I serve CANNOT LIE!  He gave it to His disciples to say He can't return before the AOD is made know, so that's that.

Like I said......just ONE verse showing Jesus returns BEORE the tribulation period is what I'm looking for.


Because if it can't be found...........well.... .......



.

[BondServant]

ummm, the man of sin is not the abomination of desolation.

As for the rest, I agree.

Though for the record, the question never has been about what Jesus said, but what about man says about His words...

In Christ,
KP

[Eccl12:13]

ummm, the man of sin is not the abomination of desolation.

KP

Let's read what the bible has to say about it.  Let's look at the event mentioned and the description given about the son of perdition.  Then let's search the scriptures to see if we can find the SAME event and another person described the SAME way.  Let's read;

2 Thes.2
[1] Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

The event is the 2nd coming of the Lord AND the gathering of the saints.  So these two events will happen at the SAME TIME.

[3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Paul then warns us that day, the 2nd coming of the Lord, WILL NOT happen until the son of perditions has been made known.  Now let's look at the description given for the son of perdition;

[4] Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

So the son of perdition:

 - opposeth all that is called God.
 - exalteth himself above all that is called God.
 - sees himself as God.
 - sits in the temple of God.
 - is made known BEFORE the 2nd coming of Jesus.

Now where did Paul get such an accurate discription?  Let's find out.

Let's see if we can find anyone else described in this manner;

Matt.24

[3] ...Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

So Jesus, himself, tells us that the Abomination of Desolation (AOD), spoken of by Daniel, will stand in the holy place.  The holy place being God's temple, located in Jersalem.  And also that this AOD will be made known BEFORE His return.  So Paul must have taken Jesus advice and read the book of Daniel to find out about this guy.  Let's do the same;

Dan 11:31. And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Now to be perfectly honest, the above verse is a little vague, but there is some information we can use to find out more. What we can make out of this verse is that, (1) the abomination that maketh desolate will be placed, or set up somewhere, (2) the sanctuary will be polluted, and (3) the daily sacrifice will be taken away. Let’s search the scriptures, like it instructs us, and find more information.

If we read a little above, in verse 27, we find that the abomination being spoken of is actually one of two kings;

Dan 11:27. And both of these kings hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time of the appointed.

We now know that the AOD is referred to as a ‘king’ . Let’s continue past the 31st verse to verse 36, still speaking about the AOD, and find what Daniel has to say about this ‘king’.

Dan 11:36. And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt
himself, and magnify himself above every god, and he shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished:

37. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women,
nor any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

Now we are learning a little more information about this AOD. We now know that he will do whatever he will, or have complete control, and that he will exalt and magnify himself above all gods.

Let's compare what we just learned to the person called the "son of perdition":


OT: Dan 11:36. “…and he shall exalt himself…above every god…”
NT: II Thes 2:3. “…and exalteth himself above all that is called God…”
OT: Dan 11:37. “…for he shall magnify himself above all.”
NT: II Thes 2:4. “…shewing himself that he is God.”

Again let’s go back to the book of Daniel for more information about the AOD.

Dan 7:21. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed
against them.

Dan 7:25. And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall
wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws.

Now let's read some in the book of Revelation;

Rev 13:6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme
his name,…

Rev 13:7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to
overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues,
and nations.

Let’s compare the two again:

OT: Dan 7:21. “…the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed
against them.”
NT: Rev 13:7. “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to
overcome them…”
OT: Dan 11:36. “…And the king shall do according to his will…”
NT: Rev 13:7. “…and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues,
and nations…”
OT: Dan 7:25. “…And he shall speak great words against the most High.…”
NT: Rev 13:6. “… And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God…”

So the person spoken of in Rev. is descibed the same as the one Daniel tells us about.  And that same person is described just as the one Paul tells us about.  Just how many people in the bible fit this description?

Let's look at one last detail.  Let's look at the event that follows after the AOD is revealed;

Dan.7
[21] I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
[22] Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

So the AOD was in power until Jesus returned.  Now let's go back to hear what thus said Paul;

2 Thes.2
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

So the Lord will destroy this guy when He returns also.

At this point we can say, without a doubt, the person we have been describing in the OT and NT is the same person.

For there can be only ONE person that will do ALL of the following:

(1) exalt himself above all that is called God,
(2) make war with the saints and prevail against them,
(3) do according to his will, and
(4) have power over ALL kindreds, tongues and nations.
(5) will be destroyed when Jesus returns

The person we have been describing is the “Abomination of Desolation” Jesus warned us about in the 24th chapter of Matthew.


.

[BondServant]

I'm sorry, but that is no proof.  I can take a few words from all over the Bible and make it say whatever I want.

When you actually read the scriptures in context, the Bible states that the man of lawlessness (son of perdition) will exalt himself above God and set up the abomination of desolation.  I am curious as to why you only quote select phrases.  Let's look at the passages, ok?

26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.  The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'  In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

29 "At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. 30 Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.  31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

The "son of perdition" will set up the abomination of desolation in the Temple, but he is not the abomination itself.

In Christ,
KP

[Eccl12:13]

When you actually read the scriptures in context, the Bible states that the man of lawlessness (son of perdition) will exalt himself above God and set up the abomination of desolation. 

KP

So, according to YOUR logic, there will be TWO people doing the SAME thing!

Paul tells us this about the "son of perdition";

 - opposeth all that is called God.
 - exalteth himself above all that is called God.
 - sees himself as God.
 - sits in the temple of God.
 - is made known BEFORE the 2nd coming of Jesus.


And Daniel tells us this about the "Abomination of Desolation";

 -  and he shall exalt himself…above every god
 -  he shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods
 -  for he shall magnify himself above all
 -  shewing himself that he is God
-   is placed in the sanctuary
 
My question to you is a simple one;

Does Paul's "son of perdition" do ALL of those things mentioned above, BEFORE or AFTER Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation"

Please provide book, chapter and verse for that.  Thank you!



.

[BondServant]

When you actually read the scriptures in context, the Bible states that the man of lawlessness (son of perdition) will exalt himself above God and set up the abomination of desolation. 

KP

So, according to YOUR logic, there will be TWO people doing the SAME thing!

Negative, ghostrider, that is not what I have said.

Daniel refers to the AOD as a THING, not a person.  Please read the scriptures I posted, and please stop putting words in my mouth.

Thank you.

In Christ,
KP

[Eccl12:13]

Daniel refers to the AOD as a THING, not a person. 

Dan 11:27. And both of these kings hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time of the appointed.


So now we know that the abomination of desolation is referred to as a ‘king’ . Now let’s continue past the 31st verse to verse 36, still speaking about the abomination of desolation, and find what Daniel has to say about this ‘king’.

Dan 11:36. And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and he shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished:

So now we know the AOD is a "king" and NOT a "Thing"!

Either way, the question remains;

Does Paul's "son of perdition" do ALL of those things mentioned above, BEFORE or AFTER Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation"


Please provide book, chapter and verse for that.  Thank you!



.

[BondServant]

Daniel refers to the AOD as a THING, not a person. 

Dan 11:27. And both of these kings hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time of the appointed.


So now we know that the abomination of desolation is referred to as a ‘king’ . Now let’s continue past the 31st verse to verse 36, still speaking about the abomination of desolation, and find what Daniel has to say about this ‘king’.

No, we don't.  That is not what the Bible says.  Let's read the whole passage, ok?

25 "With a large army he will stir up his strength and courage against the king of the South. The king of the South will wage war with a large and very powerful army, but he will not be able to stand because of the plots devised against him. 26 Those who eat from the king's provisions will try to destroy him; his army will be swept away, and many will fall in battle. 27 The two kings, with their hearts bent on evil, will sit at the same table and lie to each other, but to no avail, because an end will still come at the appointed time. 28 The king of the North will return to his own country with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant. He will take action against it and then return to his own country.

 29 "At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. 30 Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.

 31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

 33 "Those who are wise will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by the sword or be burned or captured or plundered. 34 When they fall, they will receive a little help, and many who are not sincere will join them. 35 Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.

Notice "his forces will rise up."  Then "they [his forces] will set up the abomination..."

When you the Bible in its entirety, you can get the true meaning.  The king turns his back on the covenant, his forces desecrate the temple and set up the abomination.  The king and the abomination are seperate.   It is right there in black and white.

In Christ,
KP

[Eccl12:13]

Daniel refers to the AOD as a THING, not a person. 

Dan 11:27. And both of these kings hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time of the appointed.


So now we know that the abomination of desolation is referred to as a ‘king’ . Now let’s continue past the 31st verse to verse 36, still speaking about the abomination of desolation, and find what Daniel has to say about this ‘king’.

No, we don't.  That is not what the Bible says.  Let's read the whole passage, ok?

25 "With a large army he will stir up his strength and courage against the king of the South. The king of the South will wage war with a large and very powerful army, but he will not be able to stand because of the plots devised against him. 26 Those who eat from the king's provisions will try to destroy him; his army will be swept away, and many will fall in battle. 27 The two kings, with their hearts bent on evil, will sit at the same table and lie to each other, but to no avail, because an end will still come at the appointed time. 28 The king of the North will return to his own country with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant. He will take action against it and then return to his own country.

 29 "At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. 30 Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.

 31 "His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

 33 "Those who are wise will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by the sword or be burned or captured or plundered. 34 When they fall, they will receive a little help, and many who are not sincere will join them. 35 Some of the wise will stumble, so that they may be refined, purified and made spotless until the time of the end, for it will still come at the appointed time.

Notice "his forces will rise up."  Then "they [his forces] will set up the abomination..."

When you the Bible in its entirety, you can get the true meaning.  The king turns his back on the covenant, his forces desecrate the temple and set up the abomination.  The king and the abomination are seperate.   It is right there in black and white.

In Christ,
KP

A lot was said, but the question STILL was not answered;

The question remains;

Does Paul's "son of perdition" do ALL of the following;

 - opposeth all that is called God.
 - exalteth himself above all that is called God.
 - sees himself as God.
 - sits in the temple of God.
 - is made known BEFORE the 2nd coming of Jesus.

Before or After Daniel's "Abomination of Desolation" does this;

 -  and he shall exalt himself…above every god
 -  he shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods
 -  for he shall magnify himself above all
 -  shewing himself that he is God
-   is placed in the sanctuary


Please provide book, chapter and verse for that.  Thank you!


.

[BondServant]

What are you talking about?  The question is are the anti-Christ and abomination the same thing or different.  I quote the scripture that shows they are different.

In Christ,
KP

[Eccl12:13]

What are you talking about?  The question is are the anti-Christ and abomination the same thing or different.  I quote the scripture that shows they are different.

In Christ,
KP

I asked that you direct me to the time when these things would take place.

When does the son of perdition go into the temple to declare himself God and exhalt himself and when does the AOD do the same.

Will they both be in the temple at the same time, or will one go before the other?  And if so which goes first?

That is the question.

.

[BondServant]

The when of each does not matter.  The Bible states quite clearly that the armies of the anti-christ will set up the abomination in the temple.  The two are not one and the same.

In Christ,
KP

[Amo]

“A law of the year 321 ordered tribunals, shops, and workshops to
be closed on the day of the sun, and he [Constantine] sent to the
legions, to be recited upon that day, a form of prayer which could
have been employed by a worshiper of Mithra, of Serapis, or of
Apollo, quite as well as by a Christian believer. This was the official
sanction of the old custom of addressing a prayer to the rising sun.
IN DETERMINING WHAT DAYS SHOULD BE REGARDED AS HOLY,
and in the composition of a prayer for national use, CONSTANTINE
EXERCISED ONE OF THE RIGHTS BELONGING TO HIM AS PONTIFEX
MAXIMUS; and it caused no surprise that he should do this.”
( Duruy - “History of Rome,” chap. 102, part 1:par. 4 from end. )


The text of Constantine's Sunday Law of 321 A.D. is :
"One the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for gain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost. (Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them the second time." Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; translated in History of the Christian Church, Philip Schaff, D.D., (7-vol.ed.) Vol. III, p.380. New York, 1884

Dr. A.Chr. Bang says regarding this Law :
"This Sunday law constituted no real favoratism to Christianity..... It is evident from all his statuatory provisions that the Emperor during the time 313-323 with full consciousness has sought the realisation of his religeous aim: the amalgamation of heathenism and Christianity." Kirken og Romerstaten (The Church and the Roman State) p.256. Christiania, 1879

J. Westbury-Jones, an English writer, speaks thus: “ How such a law would further the designs of Constantine it is not difficult to discover.  It would confer a special honor upon the festival of the Christian church, and it would grant a slight boon to the pagans themselves.  In fact there is nothing in this edict which might not have been written by a pagan.  The law does honor to the pagan deity whom Constantine had adopted as his special patron god, Apollo or the sun [Constantine retained the motto “Soli Invicto” to the end of his life].  The very name of the day lent itself to this ambiguity.  The term Sunday (dies Solis) was in use among Christians as well as heathen.”  (Roman and Christian Imperialism, p. 210)


The retention of the old pagan name of “dies Solis” or “Sunday”, for the weekly Christian festival, is in great measure owing to the union of pagan and Christian sentiment with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects, pagan and Christian alike, as the “venerable day of the sun”.  His decree regulating it’s observance has been justly called a new era in the history of the Lord’s day.  It was his mode of harmonizing the discordant religions of the empire under one common institution. (A. P. Stanely, History of the Eastern Church, p. 184)

 In A.D. 321, to please the bishops of the Catholic Church, he issued an
edict commanding judges, townspeople, and mechanics to rest on Sunday.
Yet in this also his paganism was still manifest, as the edict required rest on
"the venerable day of the sun," and "enjoined the observance, or rather
forbade the public desecration, of Sunday, not under the name of
Sabbatum, or Dies Domini, but under its old astrological and heathen title,
 Dies Solis , familiar to all his subjects, so that the law was as applicable to
the worshipers of Hercules, Apollo, and Mithras, as to the Christians." (History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, sec. 75, par. 5.-Schaff.)   ( The Great Empires of Prophecy by Alonzo Jones page 391 )

Then came Constantine, the best imperial representative of the new
paganism, and  the most devout worshiper of the sun as the supreme and
universal deity, with the avowed purpose, as expressed in his own words,
"First to bring the diverse judgments formed by all nations respecting the
Deity to a condition, as it were, of settled uniformity." In Constantine the
new paganism met its ideal, and the New Platonism -  the apostate,
paganized, sun-worshiping form of Christianity - met its long-wished-for
instrument. In him the two streams met. In him the aspiration of
Elagabalus, the hope of Ammonius Saccas and Clement, of Plotinus and
Origen, and the ambition of the perverse-minded, self-exalted bishops,
were all realized and accomplished - a new, imperial, and universal
religion was created.
 Therefore, "the reign of Constantine the Great forms one of the epochs
in the history of the world. It is the era of the dissolution of the Roman
Empire; the commencement, or rather consolidation, of a kind of Eastern
despotism, with a new capital, a new patriciate, a new constitution, a new
financial system, a new, though as yet imperfect, jurisprudence, and, finally,
a new religion." ( Milman - History of Christianity, book 3, chap. 1, par. 1 )
 The epoch thus formed was the epoch of the papacy; and the new
religion thus created was the PAPAL RELIGION. ( The Great Empires of Prophecy by Alonzo Jones page 361 )

"Our observance of Sunday as the Lord's day is apparently
derived from Mithraism. The argument that has sometimes
been used against this claim, namely, that Sunday was
chosen because of the resurrection on that day, is not well
supported." Gordon J. Laing, "Survivals of Roman Religion,"
p. 148.

"As a solar festival, Sunday was the sacred day of Mithra;
and it is interesting to notice that since Mithra was addressed
as Dominus, 'Lord,' Sunday must have been the 'Lord's Day'
long before the Christian times." A. Weigall, "The Paganism
in Our Christianity," p. 145.


Sunday sacredness came about through the amalgamation of apostate Christianity, and pagan sun worship.  It is an abomination to God.  It’s exaltation within the Roman empire, caused the desolation and fall of the same.  By the fifth century it had almost completely replaced God’s seventh day Sabbath.  By the fifth century also, the decline and fall of the Roman empire was complete. 

When the day of the sun is set up by law, in the place of God’s law, and the day He has commanded, desolation and ruin follow.  It is the abomination of desolation.  When, in the future it is set up again by law, by the power and influence of the church of Rome, with the help of apostate Protestantism, the result will be devastation, and desolation. 

Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) 16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

The word stand in verse 15 of the above means to set up.  This prophecy had a literal and local fulfillment when Rome set up her standard outside of Jerusalem and began the siege of the same, resulting in the devastation and desolation of Jerusalem, and the temple.  It also has a spiritual and world wide fulfillment at the end of time, when the gospel of the kingdom shall have been preached in all the world.  Rome will once again set up her standard, Sunday sacredness, in the entire world.  She will set up the abomination of Sunday sacredness by law, in the place of God’s holy Sabbath.  The result will be the swift and devastating judgments of God, resulting in desolation.  For Sunday sacredness is an abomination to God, and when it is set up in place of His holy Sabbath by law, it becomes the abomination of desolation.

In the old testament, we see that it was an abomination for Israel to take the practices of other nations and religions around them, and incorporate them into their own worship of the true God.  This same thing is still an abomination to God during this new covenant era.  Thus Sunday sacredness is an abomination, having been established through the amalgamation of apostate Christianity, and pagan sun worship.

Deuteronomy 12  29 When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; 30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. 32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Following the example of how other nations worshiped their god’s is an abomination unto the Lord.

Deuteronomy 17  1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God. 2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, 3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Offering and incomplete or blemished sacrifice to the Lord, is an abomination unto the Lord.  Worshiping other god’s, particularly the sun, moon, or stars, is an abomination unto the Lord.


Deuteronomy 18  9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.

It is an abomination for God’s people to learn to do after the people which the Lord has given into their hands.  They should not worship their god’s, or incorporate their practices of worship into their own.


Deuteronomy 32  16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. 18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. 19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. 20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith

Incorporating the practices of other religions into the true religion, is an abomination unto the Lord.


Ezra 9  12 Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever. 13 And after all that is come upon us for our evil deeds, and for our great trespass, seeing that thou our God hast punished us less than our iniquities deserve, and hast given us such deliverance as this; 14 Should we again break thy commandments, and join in affinity with the people of these abominations? wouldest not thou be angry with us till thou hadst consumed us, so that there should be no remnant nor escaping?

Practicing the abominations of the nations around them, was the breaking of God’s commandments.  The breaking of God’s commandments is an abomination.  Not just that someone sinned, but that they accepted and believed, and practiced, that which was the breaking of God’s commandments. This is an abomination.   

After Christianity conquered paganism, it turned around and did the same thing the children of Israel did.  It incorporated the ceremonies and practices of the heathen around them, which they had conquered, into it’s own religious practice and worship of the true God.  This is an abomination to God.  Sunday sacredness, among many other practices, came into Christianity in this same manner.  When it is set up by law, by supposed Christians, it is the apex of abominations.  It results in swift judgment from God.

An examination of the book of Ezekiel chapters eight and nine, will reveal a list of abominations committed by the Jews before God sent judgment upon them from Babylon, the kingdom of the north.  This was the first time Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed.  The greatest of the abominations was when those at the temple turned their backs on the same, to worship the rising sun.  So to will God send swift judgment upon the world, and this nation, when the day of the sun is exalted above the day which God commands, by law. 

[Eccl12:13]

The when of each does not matter.  The Bible states quite clearly that the armies of the anti-christ will set up the abomination in the temple.  The two are not one and the same.

In Christ,
KP

So, according to you, we have a description by Paul of a person called the son of perdition AND a description by Daniel of a person called the AOD.  Both are described in the same way.  Both are doing the same things.  Both are revealed BEFORE the coming of the Lord.  Both powers end when Jesus returns......but YOU say these are two different people?

I must ask......are there other readers out there that think the samething?


Is it really possible that the person as told by Paul, the son of perdition; is a DIFFERENT person than the one described by Daniel, the AOD?  Let's look one more time at how BOTH are described;

OT: Dan 11:36. “…and he shall exalt himself…above every god…”
NT: II Thes 2:3. “…and exalteth himself above all that is called God…”
OT: Dan 11:37. “…for he shall magnify himself above all.”
NT: II Thes 2:4. “…shewing himself that he is God.”

and again;

Dan.7
[21] I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
[22] Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
2 Thes.2
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Trust me kpappy.....I'm not trying to convice you.  I just want the readers of this post to see for themselves the comparison between the two and have another point of view other than just yours.

I'm sure I'm not the only one that can see the two are in fact the same.

And YES! The WHEN of each IS important.  If, as you say, they are TWO differnt people, God provides a timeline for the AOD.  IF one event happens before the other it let's us know HOW when and how long the other will last.

But since I know they are one in the same I know WHEN, the Tribulation will be.  I know WHAT will start it.  I know HOW long it will last.  And I know WHEN to flee so that me and my family will not have to go through the Great Tribulation period.

Oh yes.....knowing and doing what we are told is VERY IMPORTANT!

Tell me....will you know WHEN and WHERE to flee to save you and your family?

God has already told us.  Will we do as Jesus said?

"(whoso readeth, let him understand:)"

[BondServant]

The when of each does not matter.  The Bible states quite clearly that the armies of the anti-christ will set up the abomination in the temple.  The two are not one and the same.

In Christ,
KP

So, according to you, we have a description by Paul of a person called the son of perdition AND a description by Daniel of a person called the AOD.  Both are described in the same way.  Both are doing the same things.  Both are revealed BEFORE the coming of the Lord.  Both powers end when Jesus returns......but YOU say these are two different people?

Once again, no.  You are misrepresting what I have said.

The AOD is not a person.

Daniel and Paul describe the same person, the anti-christ.  The anti-christ abolishes the sacrifice and sets up the abmoniation.

I am tired of going around and around like this. I have quote the entire passages on more than one occasion, so I think it is best if we agree to disagree.  I said by the entire passages I have already posted.

In Christ,
KP