Author Topic: The Mark of the Beast, the Name of the Beast or the Number of its Name, and 666  (Read 3983 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9617
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Many Christians reject preterism not because of honest Bible interpretation
My brother that statement is not correct. I'll leave it at that.
Quote
but because of the influence of false teachers who want to entertain and excite their flocks by telling their flocks that the eschatology in the Bible is about today.
True biblical prophecy from the OT starts at the time of John the Baptist and goes to the end of the times of Christ, including his second coming and the resurrection, both of the wicked and righteous at the last day. False bible prophecy is two fold~first it limits most IF ALL prophecy to 70 A.D.~secondly, that teaches that MOST prophecy has to do with Israel after the flesh, and most is yet in the future after the church is secretly removed, etc. etc. Both are false.
Quote
The excuse of anti-preterists to reject preterism is that that the events in the vision in Revelation when taken literally aren't found in history. 
Not so~I can only speak for myself my friend~I reject Preterism because 70 A.D. system/doctrine has not one thread of scriptures in the NT supporting it, not one. Brother, I compare the "secret rapture" teaching with 70 A.D. theory....neither one has ANY SCRIPTURE SUPPORT! Yet both have gained much support in the church in the latter days since around 1800 and forward. My position is ALMOST identical with Augustine who lived late 300 early 400 A.D.~ As far as Revelation goes. Read his teaching on Revelation 20~ IS powerful.
Quote
Preterism is demanded by the Bible. Rev 1: "1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass... for the time is at hand."
My brother, with ALL due respect (and you DO deserve it, based upon many of your good post that I have read) You really do not want to go there with that verse, now do you? If you do, then please let me know, and I will prove that that verse will not support Preterism, but actually will condemn it.
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 10, 2019 - 03:35:52 by RB »

Offline Glorious

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 982
  • Manna: 48
Tertullian wrote:
Quote
Does your post sound as much like gibberish to you as it does to me?

Of course, not! I wrote what I did knowing that many here will not understand. It wasn't an academic exercise, but simple information about a thing that God reveals to whomever He wants.

I deliberately did not give details on how to count, but simply informed that there is a heavenly pattern by which we understand and count all things of God.

Tertullian, you neither know everything about God nor can understand all there are to be understood from scriptures,  do you?  So come down from that high horse and calm down! It is obvious that you cannot understand what I wrote because it is not given for you to do so at this time.

What you cannot understand will sometimes sound like gibberish to you. That is very okay. You can't help that from happening, my friend. But, you can politely ask for explanation if/when you are ready and willing to learn.

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1122
  • Manna: 27
  • That’s 666 YEARS, people.
RB  -  This is in reply to your #28 comment connected to the Zechariah passages.  If we are prompted by a moderator to do so, you could split this off into a separate post devoted to this Zechariah content alone, which might be less restricting.  Based on some of your current comments, I believe the reason you are unable to detect any Preteristic teaching in your NT reading is probably because you, (due to your previous exposure to Tabernacle's influence and your personal choice), appear to have stuck with the KJV-only perspective.  I also never ventured beyond this one version of scripture for the majority of my life, and it crippled my understanding of much of prophetic teaching.  But even with the obscured language that the KJV adopts, there is still plenty to confirm Preteristic teaching in the NT, if one has their eyes open.  For instance, you have never addressed that one simple, obvious text in I Peter 4:7, "But THE END OF ALL THINGS IS AT HAND: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."  If you respond to nothing else of mine in this current comment, I would be interested in how you interpret this "end of all things" being "at hand" when Peter was writing, without creatively redefining what "at hand" means.

But to return to your Zechariah 13 text.  Thankfully, I know you are a strong proponent of context when it comes to interpretation.  Context is what I am sticking with on this Zechariah 13:8-9 section.  As I said before, it is included in the list of 16 or so events that were ALL predicted to happen concurrently "IN THAT DAY".  This "DAY" is attached quite definitely to the "siege in Judah and Jerusalem" in Zech. 12:2 and Zech. 14:1-2.  There was no siege that was taking place on the day of Pentecost in AD 33.  Neither was Jerusalem being "trampled on" in the day of Pentecost.  Neither were "false prophets passing out of the land" at that point.  Indeed, quite the contrary, since I John 4:1 explicitly states that "many false prophets are gone out into the world" in that "last hour" when "the world was passing away" (I John 2:17-18).  These many false prophets that John mentions are the very ones that passed out of the land of Israel "IN THAT DAY" (Zech. 13:2)

RB, you mention 3 particular Zechariah references in your comment (Zech. 12:10, 13:1-2, and 14:8-9) claiming that all 3 take place on the day of Pentecost.  They don't.  They all take place "IN THAT DAY" - the same day that "the Lord my God shall come and all the saints (holy ones/ angels) with him" (Zech. 14:5).  This coming of the Lord took place "IN THAT DAY" within the same time constraints as the siege described in Zech. 12:2-3 and Zech. 14:1-2.  This is a UNIFIED prophetic message beginning from Zech. 12:1 and ending with Zech. 14:21.  Every listed item in this "burden of Israel" prophecy that lies between these two brackets, (which all share the label of "IN THAT DAY"), cannot be separated from each other without doing violence to the context.

The date for the "siege" in this Zechariah context must be that of AD 70, since the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem had already occurred before Zechariah put pen to parchment.  And it is not a future-to-us siege of Jerusalem either, because the tribes (phule - families in Israel as per Zech. 12:12-14) are no longer a feature of the New Covenant age we are currently in.  Malachi 4:1-5 told us long ago that "the great and dreadful Day of the Lord" would leave "neither root nor branch" of Israel's tribal system that would survive that Day.  All would be burned up.  It matters not who claims ethnic Israelite parentage today.  In God's mind that is immaterial under the New Covenant.

One might argue that there are certain phrases plucked out of this Zechariah prophecy that were given a fulfillment on history's timeline other than AD 70.  I agree, there are two phrases that scripture itself (not me) pulls out and applies additionally to other fulfillments as well.  Those two would be #1), "they shall look on me whom they pierced" (Zech 12:10, fulfilled also in John 19:37 at Christ's crucifixion), and #2), "smite the shepherds and the sheep shall be scattered" (Zech. 13:7, fulfilled also in Matt. 26:31 at Christ's arrest by being changed to shepherd - singular).

 It is God's prerogative when He decides to apply a prophecy to two or more fulfillments if He so chooses.  Many, many times a prophecy has a literal fulfillment at first, with an "ultimate" spiritual fulfillment later, as you have already acknowledged, RB.  I am not at war with the inclusion of Gentiles playing a large part in the "ultimate" fulfillment of much OT prophetical material. It is my job as a student of the Word of God to make sure I am not substituting literal where spiritual is intended and vice versa.  Sometimes both apply, and sometimes multiple literal and/or spiritual applications apply.  This is where I benefit most from hearing views that counter mine, so I can adjust if and where it is needed.

As you have noted, my comments are infused with literal, historic prophetic interpretation, and I do this for a couple of reasons.  First, those who find fault with Preterism typically accuse those who hold to these beliefs of interpreting everything as symbolic or metaphoric, with no emphasis on the literal at all.  I believe there is a place for both the literal as well as the spiritual/symbolic elements of prophecy, and my manner of commenting attempts to illustrate this.  It's all about balance. 

Second, locating prophetic fulfillment on the historic timeline is a matter that is vitally  important to God.  Among many other similar-themed verses in Isaiah, chapter 46:9-11 tells us that it is a hallmark of His very identity as an omniscient God to be able to "call the shots" long before they come to pass.  "...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure'..." 

Jesus told his disciples that the main reason for Him telling future events ahead of time was for the same reason: "And now I have told you before it come to pass, that when it is come to pass, ye might believe."  Each time I am able to identify and connect the dots between a scripture prophecy and when it came to pass on the calendar - not only in OT days, but during the first-century generation before it passed away in AD 70 (I John 2:17-18) - this further increases my trust in scripture's accuracy and God's ability to "do all His pleasure".

Devoting attention to history is merely obedience to God's command in Isaiah 46:9 to "remember the things of old". I can't begin to describe to you how that swells my confidence in an all-seeing, all-knowing God and His Word.  Studying history in conjunction with scripture is so much more than an educational exercise to me.  It is a joy-producing, faith-building, peace-filling, hope-growing, personal encounter with my omniscient Lord.  This is the best way to prepare myself within for the judgments that are falling and will be falling soon on this nation and others.  Simultaneously, I am also taking practical steps as well to prepare before it comes.

Offline Tertullian

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 600
  • Manna: 11
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
My brother, with ALL due respect (and you DO deserve it, based upon many of your good post that I have read) You really do not want to go there with that verse, now do you? If you do, then please let know, and I will prove that that verse will not support Preterism, but actually will condemn it.

Your graciousness does not go unnoticed.  Your claim that no verse supports preterism is very bold.  I would like to see how the opening verses (soon... at hand) of Revelation condemn preterism.

I have only ever seen critics of preterism plead that soon doesn't mean soon:  A thousand years is as a day (a statement of God's patients, not the definition of soon).  God (dishonestly) wants every generation to think these events are imminent.   Or, soon only means that the events will soon be over once they start (a contextually unnatural and pointless reading of soon that can't be applied to "at hand").


At one time, Dispensationalism was the only eschatology I knew.  At that time, the Bible was very cryptic to me.   Now that I accept that soon means soon, the Bible has become much clearer.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline raggthyme13

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 701
  • Manna: 10
My brother, with ALL due respect (and you DO deserve it, based upon many of your good post that I have read) You really do not want to go there with that verse, now do you? If you do, then please let know, and I will prove that that verse will not support Preterism, but actually will condemn it.

Your graciousness does not go unnoticed.  Your claim that no verse supports preterism is very bold.  I would like to see how the opening verses (soon... at hand) of Revelation condemn preterism.

I would be sincerely interested to see that as well.


Quote

At one time, Dispensationalism was the only eschatology I knew.  At that time, the Bible was very cryptic to me.   Now that I accept that soon means soon, the Bible has become much clearer.

My goodness, this is exactly how I feel. Everything was cryptic and shrouded in mystery in the study of end times. As it is on this forum, everyone who sees prophecy yet unfulfilled has a different interpretation of the events that will unfold and it seems that everyone is convinced of his own understanding of these "hidden" things.

I've never read a book from a preterist perspective but when I read that Matthew 24 (cross referencing it with Mark and Luke) can be read exactly how it is written, within the context of the first few verses of the chapter, it really cleared things up for me. Now, I'm not personally convinced that Jesus came back once and will never come again, but all the end times events that people speculate so much about I believe can be explained by the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem first century.

Christian Forums and Message Board


Offline raggthyme13

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 701
  • Manna: 10
Even if you go to Blue Letter Bible and look up this verse, they refer 666 directly to Nero. It can't be denied how his name adds to both 666 and 616, which I feel is pretty strong evidence. I'm convinced by even the small amount of research I've done on the topic. But not everyone is willing to except it, and that's ok. In time, we will all know the truth of the matter.
Dear precious believer, I would "NEVER" allow myself to be convinced through a small amount of research, and especially research! Saints live by every word of God, and if we cannot find scriptural support, then we MUST reject whatever SEEMS to make sense, if what we see is OUTSIDE....EXTRA-BIBLICAL information that is considered by many as equal par with God's testimony of what is truth.  Preterism is such as system, that relies heavily upon HISTORY, and NOT the word of God. Remove history support and its foundation (which is built upon the sand history) Preterism does not stand. God's truth is HIDDEN in the word of God, and there we must go and humble ourselves and beg God for light and understanding of his word, and with patience wait for light from the Spirit of God concerning HIS TRUTH on any given doctrine.

Always a pleasure, RB. But how many humble and contrite men have come diligently seeking wisdom and understanding from our heavenly Father in these things, yet come away with such varying interpretations? I respectfully disagree about looking to historical accounts when studying the Scriptures. Not that they are on par with the holy word in any way, but they should serve to confirm what God has spoken through his apostles and prophets. Consider Isaiah 46:

"Remember the former things long past, For I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, Declaring the end from the beginning, And from ancient times things which have not been done, Saying, My purpose will be established, And I will accomplish all My good pleasure'…"


We can look at Daniel (and the rise and fall of kingdoms, for instance) and compare this with historical accounts to affirm that God did indeed tell him of things not yet done. If history looked completely different from what was written, we'd wonder whether Daniel was a prophet of God at all. Do you see my point?

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9617
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
I kinda know how Donald Trump filled when the media, debate moderators, and all liberals and even some of his own party refused to back him..... ::cryingtears::... Well, please forgive my jesting~the people here are godly people who just disagree~ unlike the people of this world who is giving Trump ---- Not saying that he does not deserve a little of it.  Okay, as my manner is, I'll wait until the morning to answer. I need to go back over 3 "R" post and read it again since I only glanced over it quickly. Much love to all three of you...later.

Offline Tertullian

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 600
  • Manna: 11
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
I've never read a book from a preterist perspective but when I read that Matthew 24 (cross referencing it with Mark and Luke) can be read exactly how it is written, within the context of the first few verses of the chapter, it really cleared things up for me. Now, I'm not personally convinced that Jesus came back once and will never come again, but all the end times events that people speculate so much about I believe can be explained by the events surrounding the destruction of Jerusalem first century.

I've never read a preterist book either, but I have read articles on the internet.

From chapter one of Revelation, there's about ten strong indicators ("soon" is the first) that the book is about the first century.  There's not one indicator to the contrary.   

Futurists will lean on, "7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."  But, coming with clouds is a figure of speech from the Old Testament meaning divine judgment (e.g. Isaiah 19:1).  Indeed, that's what Revelation is about, Jesus coming in the clouds to judge.   This verse says those who pieced him will see him, this is another first century indicator.   All these people died in, or very near, the first century.  What they'd see is the judgement. 

Even if "every eye shall see him" is taken literally, there's no timing indicator.  Nothing about that would give any first century reader the slightest clue that Revelation was about anything after the first century (the first century is ruled out only after the first century passes).  And, if you take that literally, you can't take literally "even those who pierced him", nor can you take literally the other timing indicators.   

Earth in "all kindreds of earth" is a word the Bible uses that can mean just a local area, as in Mat 2:6 where it just means the area of Judea.  Legitimately and literally, this phrase can mean just all the peoples in the region. 

Revelation and Jesus' comments on the destruction of the Temple, is about 70AD.  Any judgement by God can be termed a "coming".  I believe we'll each see Jesus come to get us when we die; not a coming in judgment, but a coming to take us to be with him.   

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9617
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
I'm too tired to post, had a bad night sleeping~I'll  post later maybe if I feel better. I have a PM that I need to answer as well. No rest for the weary. RB

Offline raggthyme13

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 701
  • Manna: 10
I'm too tired to post, had a bad night sleeping~I'll  post later maybe if I feel better. I have a PM that I need to answer as well. No rest for the weary. RB

Hoping you feel better soon, brother!! ::sleepingsoundly::

bornofgod

  • Guest
The mark of the Beast on the hands and forehead of a man is symbolic for the thoughts of God that are converted into the knowledge to teach God's people how to build things ( false gods ) with their human hands.

The Beast started teaching man how to form various shapes in their minds by having them look into the night sky and use imaginary lines to connect the white dots into squares, rectangles, triangles, crosses and shapes for the characters of their written languages and mathematics that is necessary to make plans and measure the earthen materials to build those false gods.

Ever since then, the Beast is worshiped by all God's people and now the Beast minded men who have most of the wealth of the world are demanding the world inhabitants to worship them and all the false gods they build. We know this as the NWO today.

God needed all these false gods built to teach the first witness how they will all be destroyed on the day of the Lord. The other reason the Beast has God's people build false gods was to refine their building techniques until we have the computer technology built with voice recognition software so God could teach me how he was able to convert his thoughts into a computer generated simulation program that we're all a part of.

Offline Tertullian

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 600
  • Manna: 11
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
The mark of the Beast on the hands and forehead of a man is symbolic for the thoughts of God that are converted into the knowledge to teach God's people how to build things ( false gods ) with their human hands.

Get help.

bornofgod

  • Guest
Why would I need help when I'm the eyes, ears and mouth of the Lord? He knows who you are by the lack of knowledge you have to interpret the prophecies correctly. You can't possibly interpret them without him teaching you everything you need to know about the future and how you're created. Most of the prophecies are yet to be fulfilled that were written thousands of years ago. The prophecies about us saints coming to preach the Law of God ( Gospel ) are about completed now but not the day of the Lord or how we will experience life in the New Heaven and Earth. God has revealed a lot of knowledge to me about how we'll live in the next age without Satan and the Beast.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9617
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Get help.
Forgive me for laughing but that's funny! I'm still very much under the weather, be back soon.

Offline raggthyme13

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 701
  • Manna: 10
Get help.
Forgive me for laughing but that's funny! I'm still very much under the weather, be back soon.

My thoughts exactly. I used to think kind of like that back when I was living in sin and experimenting with psychedelics. RB, praying for you to feel well again very soon.

bornofgod

  • Guest
1 John 4
4: Little children, you are of God, and have overcome them; for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.
5: They are of the world, therefore what they say is of the world, and the world listens to them.
6: We are of God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and he who is not of God does not listen to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

1 John 5
19: We know that we are of God, and the whole world is in the power of the evil one.
20: And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, 

Psalm 41
5: My enemies say of me in malice: "When will he die, and his name perish?"
6: And when one comes to see me, he utters empty words, while his heart gathers mischief; when he goes out, he tells it abroad.
7: All who hate me whisper together about me; they imagine the worst for me.

Offline 3 Resurrections

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1122
  • Manna: 27
  • That’s 666 YEARS, people.
A couple of years have gone by since I offered some comments here on cgaviria’s post, and I would like to go on record now as retracting a portion of them.  I have corrected my comments on this subject in other posts where I have spoken on this issue, and I need to do so here as well, for clarity.

On comment #21, I was giving strong support at that time for the “gematria” method that uses the numerical value of the letters to arrive at a name for this Rev. 13 Sea Beast (i. e., Nero = 666).  Although I still believe Nero was the emperor in power as Revelation was being written, I no longer believe gematria is the correct way to extract the meaning from the Six-hundred-sixty-six figure. 

Instead, the “calculation” that John’s readers of that time were expected to do involved “counting” backward in time the total number of 666 YEARS to identify the historical origin of this Sea Beast.  Not only does the number 666 tell us the beginning year when this Beast came into existence, but it also confirms the year in which Revelation was being written.

The detailed description of the Sea Beast we are given in Rev. 13:2 says that the Beast “was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion.”  Anyone having read Daniel 7’s description of the 4 Beast kingdoms will recognize these leopard, bear, and lion features as being the Greek, Medo-Persian, and Babylonian empires respectively.  These also correspond in parallel fashion to the brass (Greek/leopard kingdom), the silver (Medo-Persian/bear kingdom), and the gold (Babylonian/ lion kingdom) in Daniel’s statue made of different metals. 

Since all three of these different beasts’ features of leopard, bear, and lion are blended together within the Rev. 13 Sea Beast, this tells us that the biography of the Sea Beast extended all the way back in time to Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylonian empire.  In other words, it was  666 YEARS prior to John’s writing Revelation that the Sea Beast’s history originated.

We know that Revelation was written just prior to the devastating Laodicean earthquake in AD 60, (Nero’s 7th year as of Oct. AD 54, as Tacitus recorded), because Rev. 3:16 said God was about to pour out judgment on that city as John was writing the Apocalypse.  When we count backwards in time 666 years from that point, we arrive at 607 BC - the very year Nebuchadnezzar deported to Babylon the first group of Jerusalem’s captive nobility (such as Daniel and his 3 young friends). 

607 BC was the first year of their 70-year exile period as well, about which Jeremiah had prophesied.  Any one of John’s readers who were even the slightest bit familiar with Israel’s history as a nation would have been aware of this 607 BC date in Israel’s past, making a “calculation” of the 666 figure quite possible to do, with a little wisdom thrown in.

We are also told in the Rev. 13:18 Sea Beast’s description that it’s number is that of a “A MAN”.  This is exactly how the lion kingdom (Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylonian empire) is described in Daniel 7:4.  The lion was made to “stand upon its feet as A MAN, and A MAN’S HEART was given to it.”  By the time we get to Daniel 7:7’s 4th Beast, (the “dreadful and terrible” one which corresponds to Revelation 13’s Sea Beast), this 4th Beast has a horn with eyes like THE EYES OF MAN, and a MOUTH that speaks (Dan. 7:8).  This is connected to the lion’s mouth of Rev. 13:2, and also Paul’s mention of being delivered from the lion’s mouth in II Tim. 4:17. 

All these human characteristics of A MAN explain why Revelation 13:18 refers to the 666 number as applying to “ A MAN”: it’s Daniel’s STATUE of a man, beginning with the head of gold that represented Nebuchadnezzar’s reign over the Jews that started in 607 BC.

Nero definitely was the emperor in power as John was being written in late AD 59 to early AD 60, but his face was only the most current one representing a Sea Beast that had existed ever since Nebuchadnezzar’s time.  Based on Rev. 13 and Daniel’s prophesies compared with each other, we have no need to revert to the gematria method for interpreting the identification of this Sea Beast.  It was a matter of 666 YEARS of ancient history, up until the time John’s readers first received his letter to them.  This renders the 666 number a non-existent threat for our current generation.



Offline Choir Loft

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 520
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • REPENT - the hour of judgment is upon us
Why must you people always to try to pin any study I've posted to someone? First, if I'm a JW, then if I'm a Muslim, then if I heard Van Impe, then if I heeded Hal Lindsey. I am not affiliated nor associated with any of these. Just study the scriptures objectively as I have, and you will see for yourself that everything I've been posting is sound teaching and harmonizes with scripture.

The native americans are not the second beast of Revelation, as they do not have world influence, and were supplanted by the Americans. Be logical in your reasonings.

Asking Christians to be logical about their prophetic fantasies is like asking a goat to stop butting its head against the wall.

They know nothing of what they speak, but they are certain nonetheless.

Christians presume to know all the answers, but do not understand the question.


With regard to the gibberish they utter they are fools.   
Most of them deny the words of the Tanakh or the requirements of Torah, yet they stupidly presume to understand the deep things of God. 
They do not. 
Most cannot even tell you why it was necessary for Jesus to die on the cross - according to Torah, according to the Law.

They are the weak spiritually inept folk described by the apostle Timothy as -
"always learning but never able to come to the truth." - 2 tim 3:7

The terrible thing about the quest for truth is that you find it.
Remy de Gourmont

The problem with finding the truth is that it will demand action of the one who discovers it.  (book of James)
Most who come to this revelation reject truth and return to their own fantasy. (John 3:19)
Whereupon they die in the sin they have created for themselves. (1 Corinthians 5:5)

I'm not saying Christians are fools for believing in Christ. 

I am saying their arrogant suppositions about almost everything else, including interpretations of the Bible, are more suitable for science fiction and the doctrines of demons than for one who seeks the Kingdom of God.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
« Last Edit: Thu Mar 14, 2019 - 08:27:32 by Choir Loft »

 

     
anything