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Offline JohnDB

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THe Mark
« on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 09:30:56 »
We have heard it all...well...we believe that we have heard it all.

And that is the reason for this thread.

The Mark of the Beast is something that every Christian wants to avoid...we don't want to accidentily get one. We are cautious about tattoos, inplanted microchips, Social Security numbers and the like.

So...in keeping with scripture what and why do you believe that the Mark of the Beast will be or is.

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THe Mark
« on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 09:30:56 »

Offline Giver

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 09:50:28 »
We have heard it all...well...we believe that we have heard it all.

And that is the reason for this thread.

The Mark of the Beast is something that every Christian wants to avoid...we don't want to accidentily get one. We are cautious about tattoos, inplanted microchips, Social Security numbers and the like.

So...in keeping with scripture what and why do you believe that the Mark of the Beast will be or is.

I am not sure what you are asking. 

I will give you what Jesus told me years ago and just recently.

Years ago Jesus told me a time was coming soon when man would suffer more than he has ever suffered. I was to give a word and leave.  Out of that word a community would grow.  He wanted a place of safety for his people.

Jesus has also given me visions that, if I am not wrong, show me going with Jesus holding my hand, into the battle with the antichrist, a battle in which I am killed.

Recently Jesus told me the antichrist was in the world.  I asked him if it was the antichrist, and he said yes.

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 09:50:28 »

Offline JohnDB

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 10:06:48 »

I am not sure what you are asking. 
[/quote]

What is the Mark of the Beast?

Offline OldDad

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 10:12:54 »
I don't know - but from Scripture, I don't see that we can take one "accidentally" or get one without knowing what it is and what it is for.

Personally, I don;t see God holding us responsible if at some future date our SSN got "turned into" THE mark.


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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 10:12:54 »

Offline Giver

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 11:01:15 »

I am not sure what you are asking. 

What is the Mark of the Beast?Here is A little bit of information that I picked up along the way about the Smart Card.  The number six divides the Chip that holds the bar code into different sections.  So the chip contains 666.   The idea of these chips is to be implanted in people.  I guess that would leave a mark.  Also the idea of the chip is if one doesn’t have a chip implanted they can’t buy or sell. 
[/quote]

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 11:01:15 »



Offline Will i am

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 18:16:22 »
First off, What is the beast?
The beast is a kingdom. How?
Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth KINGDOM upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Where?
Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon (SATAN) gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
leopard=Greece (Syria and Lebanon)
bear=Medo-Persia (Iran)
lion=Babylon (Iraq)
The beast comes out of these three. What do we see today coming out of these countries and spreading? ISLAM.

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

What does ISLAM teach about 666?
They teach that "GOD made His Messenger a witness with the letter Qaf and the number 666."
THE BELOW WRITING IS WHAT THEY TEACH.
Only one letter can easily destroy the disbelievers, hypocrites and idol worshipers and increase their sadness.
Only one letter can easily guide the sincere and intelligent one in the right path by GOD`s will.

The number 666 is highly publicized all over the world and it is associated with evil and danger.
However, it is not what it seems. It was a Satanic trick.
The trick was to prevent the people approaching the 666.
Satan knew that the 666 is the book of GOD and the people should be kept away from it.
According to his plan, he placed a bad image to the number 666.
The number 666 mentioned in the book of Revelation 13:18 is a part of a satanic scheme
to hypnotise the minds of Christians. It is intended to cast fear and evil.
The reason is to create the negative prejudice in the minds of the people
when they witness the number 666, the truth.
The truth is that This Quran is the 666 , The Book from The Lord of the Universe.
THE ABOVE WRITING IS WHAT THEY TEACH.

I think it's fair to say that's an antichrist teaching. A strong spirit of antichrist.

ISLAM teaches taking over the whole world, and crushing it under the will of allah and so far they're doing a pretty good job.

Is the mark physical or spiritual? I believe it is spiritual. Israel will be sealed, Christians will be sealed and the rest take the mark, that is, being conquered and giving in to Islam.

The Muslims built the Dome of the Rock in 688A.D., where they thought the Ark of the Covenant used to be in Israel, but missed it by 300 ft.. From that time till now, there's been a plaque on the outside and the inside that reads,

"O you People of the Book, overstep not bounds in your religion, and of God speak only the truth.  The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, is only an apostle of God, and his Word which he conveyed unto Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from him.  Believe therefore in God and his apostles, and say not Three.  It will be better for you.  God is only one God.  Far be it from his glory that he should have a son."

So, in conclusion so far by what I see, the mark is Islam.








Offline Yukerboy

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 20:13:22 »
I don't know - but from Scripture, I don't see that we can take one "accidentally" or get one without knowing what it is and what it is for.

Personally, I don;t see God holding us responsible if at some future date our SSN got "turned into" THE mark.



Agreed completely.   ::amen!::

Offline JohnDB

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 20:25:20 »
but your reply there Yukerboy has nothing to do with scripture. (except the part about the beast being the kingdom...)

The kingdom could also be democracy (in the same vein as what you are professing...it is a religion in it's own right)

and that has more biblical evidense (the collective thoughts of men) of being a mark of the beast...

Or

Gnosticsm has another good chance. King Solomon took in 666 talents of Gold each year from doing precisely what God said the King of Israel was not supposed to do.
And in that thought line Gnosticism promotes just that. Doing what you know you shouldn't because Jesus will forgive you anyway. ..there is an Edom/Esau tie in with this as well.

I don't see Islam being the mark of the beast...there are too many other more biblical approaches to this.

But it was a nice try...kinda

Offline Yukerboy

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 20:33:24 »
but your reply there Yukerboy has nothing to do with scripture. (except the part about the beast being the kingdom...)

The kingdom could also be democracy (in the same vein as what you are professing...it is a religion in it's own right)

and that has more biblical evidense (the collective thoughts of men) of being a mark of the beast...

Or

Gnosticsm has another good chance. King Solomon took in 666 talents of Gold each year from doing precisely what God said the King of Israel was not supposed to do.
And in that thought line Gnosticism promotes just that. Doing what you know you shouldn't because Jesus will forgive you anyway. ..there is an Edom/Esau tie in with this as well.

I don't see Islam being the mark of the beast...there are too many other more biblical approaches to this.

But it was a nice try...kinda

Psssst....think you got the wrong guy.   ::shrug::

Offline JohnDB

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 20:52:53 »
So many adolescents running about the forums these days it is hard to keep them all straight.

Offline Will i am

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #10 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 21:33:22 »
but your reply there Yukerboy has nothing to do with scripture. (except the part about the beast being the kingdom...)

The kingdom could also be democracy (in the same vein as what you are professing...it is a religion in it's own right)

and that has more biblical evidense (the collective thoughts of men) of being a mark of the beast...

Or

Gnosticsm has another good chance. King Solomon took in 666 talents of Gold each year from doing precisely what God said the King of Israel was not supposed to do.
And in that thought line Gnosticism promotes just that. Doing what you know you shouldn't because Jesus will forgive you anyway. ..there is an Edom/Esau tie in with this as well.

I don't see Islam being the mark of the beast...there are too many other more biblical approaches to this.

But it was a nice try...kinda
It's not a nice try...kinda. There is no way you can dismiss Islam in all this, you don't even need the Bible to see that Islam is taking over the whole world, yea, even here in the United States. Where do you see Gnosticism taking over the whole world?
What other religion teaches and embraces 666 as the Truth? Why is our president saying "We are no longer a Christian Nation", but "the U.S. could be the largest Muslim nation in the world", opening the door for a mass exodus of Muslims to come over here. In Britain, why do they have "The Islamic Bank of Britain" all over Britain? and on the teller machine it says "wholly operated in accordance with Sharia’a principles". Why is France being taken over by Muslims? Why is Michigan being taken over by Muslims?  
Let me give you an example of what a Sharia'a principle is,
Surah 24:33 ... Force not your slave-girls to whoredom that ye may seek enjoyment of the life of the world, if they would preserve their chastity. and if one force them, then (unto them), after their compulsion, lo! Allah will be forgiving, Merciful.
So when your slave-girls do not desire chastity pimp them out for gain, but even if you force them, Allah is forgiving.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
WHAT OTHER FASTEST GROWING RELIGION GOES AROUND CUTTING PEOPLES HEADS OFF?

This whole thing is between Jacob and Esau. Do I have to explain that one too?
Come on people, it's time to wake up and stop making the Word of God into some Hollywood movie.

2Ti 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4  And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I can go on and on, to no avail, I'm used to Christians quickly writing me off like I'm some kinda wacko, I'll take that as a compliment, Thank you! Being called ignorant by another Christian brother is walking in love...Oh okay...I see where this site is going.
« Last Edit: Wed Jul 29, 2009 - 16:23:39 by Will i am »

Offline Yukerboy

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #11 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 21:39:19 »
So many adolescents running about the forums these days it is hard to keep them all straight.


At that time Jesus said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.  Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.  Do not be conceited.

That whole Bible thing again....

Offline Rahn

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #12 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 21:41:10 »
Step into the world of the early Christians. What would the seven churches of Asia thought when they read this letter from John? What did they see as the mark. The Romans sought ungodly pleasure. They stood opposed to the early church. It was not in keeping with the god of pleasure, lust, power, or you name it. The mark is what the early Christians saw in pagan Rome. The gods of Rome worshipped the Beast in sexual immorality, political corruption, and greed. (It is no different today.) The Roman empire collasped eventually after immersing itself in years of worshipping false gods. Do some research on Nero, Domitian, Diocletian. They were barbaric. Those who did not bow down to the beast faced persecution.

The US is no different. Any culture that seeks to immerse itself into itself for the sake of itself is a prisoner to itself. Fortunately, there are many in the US (and others) that believe that we cannot live to serve our own ends. Why do we send out so much aid? Why do we do charity work?

The mark of the beast today is in lust, greed, and corruption. When a politician, a minister, or whoever commits an act of unfaithfulness the mark of the beast is imprinting his mark upon society. (Sports figures and police included.) It is unfaithfulness to a vow. There are many who have no parents. Some who have parents are not getting any instruction about a God in Heaven. ( I saw some disturbing news in the paper today. Why would  a mother take the life of her own child?) The woman had no husband. I hate these stories. They seem to be more common.

Offline Will i am

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #13 on: Mon Jul 27, 2009 - 21:49:49 »
Step into the world of the early Christians. What would the seven churches of Asia thought when they read this letter from John? What did they see as the mark. The Romans sought ungodly pleasure. They stood opposed to the early church. It was not in keeping with the god of pleasure, lust, power, or you name it. The mark is what the early Christians saw in pagan Rome. The gods of Rome worshipped the Beast in sexual immorality, political corruption, and greed. (It is no different today.) The Roman empire collasped eventually after immersing itself in years of worshipping false gods. Do some research on Nero, Domitian, Diocletian. They were barbaric. Those who did not bow down to the beast faced persecution.

The US is no different. Any culture that seeks to immerse itself into itself for the sake of itself is a prisoner to itself. Fortunately, there are many in the US (and others) that believe that we cannot live to serve our own ends. Why do we send out so much aid? Why do we do charity work?

The mark of the beast today is in lust, greed, and corruption. When a politician, a minister, or whoever commits an act of unfaithfulness the mark of the beast is imprinting his mark upon society. (Sports figures and police included.) It is unfaithfulness to a vow. There are many who have no parents. Some who have parents are not getting any instruction about a God in Heaven. ( I saw some disturbing news in the paper today. Why would  a mother take the life of her own child?) The woman had no husband. I hate these stories. They seem to be more common.
Wow! A Christian who does not ridicule another Christian to get a point across, REFRESHING! God Bless.

Offline dp

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #14 on: Tue Jul 28, 2009 - 03:51:01 »
Not sure if this is the kind of answer you're looking for, but here it is.

There's many parallels between the Book of Revelation and the Book of Genesis. The "mark of the beast" in Revelation has its first parallel in the Book of Genesis about Cain. When God cast Cain out of Eden, Cain complained that everyone finding him would want to kill him. So God put a mark on Cain lest anyone finding him would kill him. The mark served as Cain's protection.

At the end of Rev.13, we're told that one with understanding is to 'count' the number of the beast. The Greek word for "count" means to enumerate using stones (pebbles). The one Biblical clue many miss, because they start literally counting numbers, is the idea of counting with 'stones'. It's not the actual number 666 that's important to count; it's the ACT of counting 'stones' over a long period of time. The idea is of looking back through history about the origins of the 'mark'.

The mark God put upon Cain is both physical and spiritual, but still not a physical mark like a tatoo or outward appearing mark. It refers to a trait, an advantage, a power to overcome others in this world. The very thing which God put on Cain so he would be protected from others by having the advantage over them. Per Genesis 4, Cain's traits and that of his offspring were unique, because God cursed the ground from Cain, so Cain could not produce the fruits of the ground in abundance (see Gen.4). He couldn't farm, so he built the first city (Enoch), and per Gen.4 his offspring became workers in crafts, metals, etc. They had to do other things to survive.

Is anyone seeing how Cain's mark leads into the 'beast kingdom' idea? We should, because that's the natural result of Cain's mark, its about a given power in this world, an advantage over it.

Luke 16:8-9
8   And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.
(KJV)

How many have often wondered about the meaning of that verse? Obviously these "children of this world" are not those in Christ, because we are "the children of light" in that verse. Our Lord gave us this natural comparison about workers in this world that are not His, in contrast to His people, just like with His Message about the "tares" in Matthew 13, i.e., the "goats", etc. The children of THIS WORLD in their age ("generation") are wiser than God's children. In other words, those who belong to this world have an advantage, like having the mark God put on Cain for protection.

In Revelation 13 we're told about two 'beasts'. The first one is about a kingdom of nations compared to the old beast kingdoms of Daniel 7. But the second beast is about an entity, a false one who serves up the "mark of the beast" as a requirement so all may worship him in place of God.

We have a description in 2 Peter 2 and Jude 1 about the idea of 'beasts' being applied to the children of THIS world...

2 Pet 2:10-14
10   But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11   Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12   But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13   And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14   Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
(KJV)

We would like to think that every soul will come to Christ, but God's Word shows us about some who will not, but are destined to perish (if they don't repent). Some may not like me saying the following, but I'm not going to hide God's Word under a bushel here. God's Word is showing us there is a group of truly wicked workers on this earth, given advantage during the time of this world, and are in very grave danger of perishing. Jude 1 is more revealing about this...

Jude 1:3-4
3   Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4   For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
(KJV)

Jude 1 has a similar rebuke about these children like Peter gave. But here it's unmistakeable that these children of darkness will not repent, and not only that, but "who were before of old ordained to this condemnation". In other words, God has set these up to work the negative on earth. Note how Peter and Jude referred to these as "beasts". The sense is like a wild rabid animal that is dangerous to itself and everything around it. To have peace it must be destroyed.

So the idea of the "mark of the BEAST" is about the children of darkness of THIS world, their ways, and their obedience not to God through His Son, but to the devil. It's about their attempt to establish rule over the whole earth in setting up a false kingdom over all peoples and nations. That's what the previous beast kingdoms of Daniel are a blueprint for, and why those kingdoms are compared to the ten horned beast kingdom in Rev.13:1.

This is also why the "dragon" of Rev.13:11 forward refers to the devil as "another beast", and also in Rev.11:7 about his ascending up out of the bottomless pit to kill God's two witnesses in Jerusalem in the future.

About the 'mark' of the beast (the devil as the ultimate 'beast') being spiritual:

In Rev.9 we are told that the locust army are only allowed to sting those men that don't have God's seal in their foreheads. There's a big clue about the mark also. God has a mark in the last days for His servants, and Satan has his 'mark of the beast' also in the forehead, and right hand (doing works for the beast).

Is God's seal or mark a literal physical mark on the forehead, or is it a spiritual mark IN the forehead. What's inside our forehead? Our brain, our mind.

So the "mark of the beast" of Rev.13 is especially... about WHICH mark you take in the last days prior to Christ's coming. Ezekiel 9 is the prophetic parallel to this also, as God told angels to go into Jerusalem and put an inkhorn mark upon the foreheads of His servants that sigh because of the abominations going on. And those not having that mark were to be slain by the rest of the angels, and they were not to spare women, children, no one without it.

Can this mean the New World Order might still require a physical mark to buy and sell? I say it's still very possible, but that's not the same thing as the above. The true mark of the beast is really about deception, and following the devil and his workers, and their 'beast' system in the last days. Having God's seal is about staying strong in the Faith, waiting for Christ's return to destroy the devil with the brightness of His coming, even to the death of our flesh if need be.

Obviously then, one of the worst things we can do in the last days is to get comfortable with this world, its things and ways. We must prepare to suffer in the future, while waiting for the True Christ to return to end this wicked world age along with the wicked in it.


Offline JohnDB

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #15 on: Tue Jul 28, 2009 - 07:56:27 »
Step into the world of the early Christians. What would the seven churches of Asia thought when they read this letter from John? What did they see as the mark. The Romans sought ungodly pleasure. They stood opposed to the early church. It was not in keeping with the god of pleasure, lust, power, or you name it. The mark is what the early Christians saw in pagan Rome. The gods of Rome worshipped the Beast in sexual immorality, political corruption, and greed. (It is no different today.) The Roman empire collasped eventually after immersing itself in years of worshipping false gods. Do some research on Nero, Domitian, Diocletian. They were barbaric. Those who did not bow down to the beast faced persecution.

I copied up to here. This isn't that bad a line of reasoning up to this point. In fact many preterists see the mark as a branding which was common in those days. Slaves were often branded on their heads or hands to show who owned them. Usually it was reserved for cheif slaves of the household.

The greek word used for Mark in Revelations though is a Greek word used for coin stamping. A parallel (of opposites) can be made with the gold plate/coin/medallion that the priests wore in the Temple that was used to secure their turbans together.

And the "buy or sell" in the passage refers to large volumes; not small. Preterists hold to a belief from history that Rome's largest merchants were required to have a branding (of loyalty to the Caesar) on their heads and their servants on their hands in order to conduct business within the provinces. The Banking system that they also had in those days was completely engulfed in their pantheon of gods.  Any deposits or checks written were engulfed into their worship of gods of silver and gold. Early Christians could/would not use the banking system whatsoever.

I know for a fact that I am unsure at this point as to what the mark will be. Whether it will be a symbolic mark or a physical mark...I am unsure. I have seen plenty of eisogesis on this forum to give credit to whatever pet concept people hold.
So far the preterists have done more homework and stated more as far as an understanding of what was said and how it would be viewed within those days and times.

The question being: Does this hold true for today?

I don't see (in this country at any rate) anyone being held at gunpoint to give up their real aliegiance to God. It is bought and paid for with so very much less than their lives and they can still use the name...Jesus just can't have pre emminance in their lives.


blituri

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #16 on: Tue Jul 28, 2009 - 12:51:46 »
The word CAIN is based on a MUSICAL NOTE which is a mark?  Jubal taught everyone how to HANDLE musical instruments and the word means WITHOUT AUTHORITY.

While there was a tiny remnant, the mercinary Jews were called a RACE OF VIPER and also a CROOKED RACE which points to the "getting drunk on wine and then singing and listening to music."

Because of musical idolatry at Mount Sinai God abandoned them to the worship of the starry host. The Tribe of Levi against which Jacob issued a warning was the operatives of this old Dionysus worship in Egypt and the Levites were priests.  When that period is called a SHADOW the word defines something totally in error.

The cross was supposed to have shut down that system but the NEW STYLE WORSHIP people have restored this "covenant with death" by restoring the sacrificial music which God called noise.  They say that this cursed covenant with death is now commanded for the churches which have been diverted.  This fits prophecy perfecty. The mark of the beast can have several meanings one is that you notice that lots of them have the plague which can mean running sores or pluck an instrument.  Another clear mark is A NEW STYLE MUSIC OR DRAMA.

THE MARK OF THE BEAST INCLUDES BEING STUNG BY NEW STYLE SINGERS AND DRAMA.

Thêrion  a tragedy in Satyric Drama. In Athens adapting old dithyramb with its chorus of Satyrs, The intensity of the preceding plays was thus relieved, while the chorus of Satyrs and Sileni, the companions of Dionysus, served to indicate the original connection between that divinity and the drama. The dance of the chorus in the satyric drama was called sikinnis or sikinnon, and consisted of a fantastic kind of skipping and jumping

The Satyric Drama (rose up to play) is the:  Sikinnis named after a mymph of Cybele although originally danced in honor of Sabazios. Paul warned about the emasculated danger which points to the effeminate musical priests of Cybele one of the mother of the gods.

    Cybele or Kubebes: CII. Kubêbês . The ‘Great Mother’ goddess of the Phrygians worshipped at Pessinus,
    and identified by the Greeks with Rhea, mother of the gods (cf. iv. 76; Strabo 469), with Aphrodite,
    with Demeter, and with Artemis as the lady of the wild woods. But here she is regarded as a foreign goddess.
    She is the facilitator or organon a musical instrument of Rhea (Eve, Zoe)


    In Revelation 17 she is the same Babylon mother of harlots.  In chapter 18 she uses lusted after fruits
    as speakers, singers (new style) and instrument players. John called the sorcerers who HAD deceived the wholeworld.

You may have noticed that the Zoe Group and other promoters of discording music are calling for the fires to call. An ACU professor wrote a book calling for God's Holy Fire to fall.  It is interested that the incenter starts the song and the similiar Ignis lights the fires.

    Rheia ,  theoi rheia zôontes the gods who live at ease,  melei, kitharis kai aoidê,  zaô , to live,
    zoos to take prisoner, Zoe to get one's living by, scum on milk
    Zaô I. to live, Hom., etc.; elenchiste zôontôn vilest of living men, Od.; zôein kai horan phaos êelioio
    Il.; rheia zôontes living at ease, of the gods, zôsa phlox living fire,


    God turned the Israelites over to worship the starry host including Sabazios, Sabaoth, or Sabbat,
    the god of the Planet Saturn, was better known as Bacchus or Dionysos, and was also styled in Semitic countries
    and it was characterized by phallephoric processions, dances, mourning for the slain divinity

    Those can be microphones or carrying of banners.

    In Plutarch's Convivial Questions, one of the guests claims to be able to prove that the god of the Jews is really
    Dionysus Sabazius, the Barley-god of Thrace and Phrygia; and Tacitus similarly records in his History (v. 5)
     that "some maintain that the rites of the Jews were founded in honour of Dionysus. They were expelled
    from Rome who were "trying to corrupt Roman morals by a pretended cult of Sabazian Jove.
"

    Paul silenced them in Romans 14 so the synagogue or school of the scriptures or "that which is written" could be taught.

Thêrion continued:  III. as a term of reproach, beast, creature, hê mousikê aei ti kainon thêrion tiktei

A.  Mousikos, musical, agônes m. kai gumnikoi  choroi te kai agônes ta mousika music, 

    II. of persons, skilled in music, musical,  poiêtikoi  kuknos [minstrel]  kai alla zôia; peri aulous -
    professional musicians, mousikos kai melôn poêtês, use with singing, skilled in speaking before a mob. Melody, 

    Of the phrase

    mousikê aei ti kainon thêrion tiktei


    A. mousikos
    B. aei always
    C. kainos , N. of new dramas, the representation of the new tragedies,  (Aphrodisias dedicated to Aphrodite (ZOE);
    comedy, sexual love, pleasure, a woman's form of oath, Aster or Venus or ZOE.
    Therion can mean hunting for sexual love.
    D. Tikto mostly of the mother
    E. of Rhea one of the zoogonic or vivific principles


Rev. 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

    Thêraô 1. to hunt or chase wild beasts,

Thêrion continued: OF A POISONOUS ANIMAL

Echidn-a , hê, ( [echis] ) viper,. of a constrictor snake, Act.Ap.28.3: metaph., of a treacherous wife or friend,
of woman, gennêmata echidnôn brood of vipers, term of reproach, in Ev.Matt.3.7.

Echis skorpios êrkôs to kentron ib.52; cf. echidna.

Skorpi-os , ho, scorpion,  'let sleeping dogs lie', Hsch.; hôsper echis ê s. êrkôs to kentron


    METAPHOR OF A ORATOR or music stirring up mental excitement oulawed in Romans 15.
    Enthithemi  stir up wrath, inspire fear, stored up wrath in the heart, inspire fear
    with Chorde or string of a lyre or harp, a musical note. Hard work and practice to
    atain harmony on a harp or flute.
    Harmonia. music in stringing a bow or lyre, musical scale, generally music

    Harmony and rhythm produce the entheast condition. Proclus declared that the choral songs of Olympus
    were adapted to produce ecstasy

Sacrificial noise makers did not make music but "made the lambs dumb before the slaugher." In the Greek they were call PARASITES.
When sacrificial or ritualistid worship ceases as people get smarter, the musicians want to continue their practice. That is why
any singer or player of instruments were called PARASITES because they produced nothing and would do ANYTHING to keep from working.

DEMOSTHENES 25. but he makes his way through the market-place like a snake or a scorpion with sting erect, darting hither and thither, on the look-out for someone on whom he can call down disaster or calumny or mischief of some sort, or whom he can terrify till he extorts money from him. He never calls at the barber's or the perfumer's or any other shop in the city. He is implacable, restless, unsociable; he has no charity, no friendliness, none of the feelings of a decent human being; he is attended by those companions whom painters couple with the damned souls in hell--by Malediction, Evil-speaking, Envy, Faction, Dissension.

Jer. 27:9 Therefore hearken not ye to your prophets, nor to your diviners, nor to your dreamers, nor to your enchanters, nor to your sorcerers, which speak unto you, saying, Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon:

Mal. 3:5 And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.

Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev. 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


Offline JohnDB

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #17 on: Tue Jul 28, 2009 - 13:10:01 »
I hadn't heard that musical insturments used in worship were the mark of the beast before...

That is a new one on me...


OK...I need to grab my tinfoil hat before continuing on.


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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #18 on: Tue Jul 28, 2009 - 13:18:51 »
If one is soley locked into scripture in trying to understand what they meant by the Mark of the Beast, then they will never fully grasp the commonly used metaphors used in that era to distingush, and rather plainly I may add, who they were speaking of.

To understand the Bible, their mindset, and what was transpiring, one must really go beyond the Bible or else one will get such answers as Islam, OJ, the Pope, Hitler, or even as seen here on these forums, President Obama.  ::noworries::

Offline dp

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #19 on: Tue Jul 28, 2009 - 13:34:35 »
Maybe we need a tinfoil coat too!

The Biblical idea of the mark of the beast is not that difficult to understand. The idea of a mark (spiritual) in itself is not a bad thing per The Bible, because God marks His people (Ezek.9; Rev.9; Rev.7). With God's people it's called being sealed, and it's a spiritual seal by The Holy Spirit.

If the one world government system comes up with a physical mark, that's different. I wouldn't plan on receiving either a physical or spiritual mark from them, but it's especially a spiritual mark that The Bible is talking about.

We should also remember that king David played the harp, and the Psalms means songs; they were sung.

Everything God has the devil tries to make a copy of and perverts its original use. It's because Satan has always wanted to be God since he first rebelled. And that's what the coming one world government 'beast' system is about. Satan wants to rule in God's place, and most of all, he wants everyone to bow in worship to him in place of God. Per Rev.12:7-9 he and his angels will be booted down to this earth, in person. He's coming here to setup his false kingdom in the last days just prior to Christ's coming to end it.


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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #20 on: Tue Jul 28, 2009 - 14:54:17 »
When the giants or fallen angels came the first time one of the things they taught the simple YOUTH was how to form mixed-sex choirs, make and play instruments, wear sexy clothing and jewelry and that led into sexual and homosexual PLAY just as at Mount Sinai. Jude and others quote The Book of Enoch and Enoch identifies the seduced and seduced with musical instruments which SILENCES the Word of God.

    Christ in Spirit wrote the SPIRITUAL THREAD in the Writing prophets and later the Apostles.
    We are warned by Jacob not to attend the assemblies of the tribe of Levi.
    We are also warned about the "lying pen of the Scribes." Whatever the ABANDONED civil thread writes about itself, God through Samuel warned them that they would enslave them, rob them and lead them into captivity. Christ in the prophets called them ROBBERS and PARASITES.

    Didn't I tell you that Christ in Spirit called Lucifer the "singing and harp playing prostitute in the Garden of Ede." He/she/it was CAST AS PROFANE out of heaven and arrived in the Garden of Eden with his/her wind, string and percussion instruments.

    Cast as Profane is the Hebrew cHALAL which is translated as to "play the flute, steal other's prop;erty, pollute and prostitute." It has the sam meaning as David's PRAISE word which was to "make himselve vile" and the source of the word LUCIFER. You can see the connection is this pasty:

   

    "In pagan traditions, musical instruments are invented by gods or demi-gods, such as titans. In the Bible, credit is assigned to antediluvian patriarchs, for example, the descendants of Cain in Genesis 4:21. There is no other biblical tradition about the invention of musical instruments." (Freedman, David Noel, Bible Review, Summer 1985, p. 51). 

    When Jubal taught people how to HANDLE musical instruments it has a sexual meaning and means in the Bible WITHOUT AUTHORITY

    http://www.piney.com/MuLamech.html

    Speaking of the religious ritual condemned by Amos and others we note that:

    The marzeah had an extremely long history extending at least from the 14th century B.C. through the Roman period. In the 14th century B.C., it was prominently associated with the ancient Canaanite city of Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra), on the coast of Syria...

    The marzeah was a pagan ritual that took the form of a social and religious association... Some scholars regard the funerary marzeah as a feast for--and with--deceased ancestors (or Rephaim, a proper name in the Bible for the inhabitants of Sheol)." (King, Biblical Archaeological Review, Aug, 1988, p. 35, 35)

    "These five elements are:
            (1) reclining or relaxing,
            (2) eating a meat meal,
            (3) singing with harp or other musical accompaniment,
            (4) drinking wine and
            (5) anointing oneself with oil." (King, p. 37).

    "With the wine-drinking (which is the literal meaning of the Hebrew for feasting), went music and dancing." (Heaton, E. W., Everyday Life in Old Testament times, Scribners, p. 93)

    "Worship was form more than substance; consequently, conduct in the marketplace was totally unaffected by worship in the holy place. Amos spoke from the conviction that social justice is an integral part of the Mosaic covenant, which regulates relations not only between God and people, but also among people." (King, p. 44).

    This won't shock the literate who know that because of the MUSICAL IDOLATRY at Mount Sinai God TURNED THEM OVER to worship the starry host.

    "The normal order of events was a meal, followed by a drinking party. Entertainment might include anything from a rhetorcian or philosopher discoursing on some topic, to musical entertainment, to sexual dalliance."

    "Plutarch implicitly contrasts a serious dinner featuring a sage as the after-dinner speaker with the other sorts of dinners--where sexual play with the girl flute-players or hetairae was common." (Witherington, Ben, Why Not Idol Meat, Bible Review, June 1994, p. 41-42).

ZOE is LUCIFER and was called "The BEAST and female instructing principle." When she takes over in your church she emasculates the males so that you worship HER who is using the "worship teams" standing in the holy place of church architecture and claiming to lead you into the presence of God.

I can go on and on to show that MUSIC was the MARK on Cain and music MARKED all falls from grace. Music marks your MIND (head) by what you think and that marks your wrist or hands as that which you DO.  Now, in Islam Satan is SHEtan and she feeds you horse stuff and seduces you with musical INSTRUMENTS.  Would he be so stupid that he would force you to get a tattoo on your forehead when he can as SLICK WILLY mark your MIND and your WORK with music which wasl always used to induce a form of madness which shut down your rational or spiritual hemisphere.

Now, pray tell me, why the MASSES will not be enslaved and seduced by LOUD NOISE which God never calls music when the trumpet sounds the end meant TOO LATE.

I think the radical invasion of professional musicians WAS that sound: they even wear names like Zoe (Lucifer the beast) or Halal (make yourself vile) or Acappella (the Pope's castrated musical worship team) or the GOAT SINGERS.


Offline gospel

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #21 on: Tue Jul 28, 2009 - 14:57:50 »
Quote
OK...I need to grab my tinfoil hat before continuing on.

rofl   rofl   rofl

Offline dp

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #22 on: Wed Jul 29, 2009 - 01:15:13 »
I sense a shiller here. Is that possible on a Christian forum?

idiglove

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #23 on: Fri Aug 07, 2009 - 17:26:05 »
Here's a great (short) article that summarizes pretty well what I think.



Don't Take the Mark



In the last book of the Bible is one of the most astounding prophecies of all time. It says a world leader will arise in the "last days" who will try to get everyone on earth to accept a "mark" in their hand or in their forehead, without which they will not be able to buy or sell anything. (Revelation 13:16-17) And through this mark he will be able to control the whole world.

This prophecy was made nearly 2,000 years ago, before the days of paper currency, cheques, credit cards, or microchips. It was unthinkable that any world leader could control the entire population of the world to that extent; and as the world's population has grown many times over since then, it has sounded progressively more impossible over the years. Until now.

"We Have the Technology..."

Computer technology now makes it possible for people to do their shopping with a plastic card that instantly subtracts funds from their bank accounts and deposits them into the accounts of the people they buy from. A tiny microchip the size of a grain of rice on these "smart cards" can record every transaction, as well as holding a huge file of information on the person making the transaction including medical history, police record, address, birthdate, etc.

The technology is also available to implant the microchip under the skin on each person's hand, thus eliminating the possibility that the card could be lost or stolen. The arguments in favour of implementing such technology are overwhelming. It would do everything from wiping out the drug trade (which always deals in cash) to simplifying banking.

But the proponents of microchip implants keep running into opposition from people who are aware of the prophecy referred to at the start of this article. Opposition is highest in those countries where interest in Bible prophecy is highest, most notably in the United States.

The context of the prophecy is that an alliance of nations will eventually rule the world; and one world leader will gain control of that body. This leader will have widespread support, and his policies will result in peace and prosperity for much of the world. But then he will elevate himself to the position of a god, and he will begin a massive slaughter of anyone who refuses to worship him. More people will be killed in this purge than at any previous time in earth's history. (Matthew 24:21-22)

No wonder that people who have studied this prophecy are suspicious of the approaching cashless economy!

But whether they are suspicious or not, the mark will come, and so will the world leader. It has been foretold, and the best that we can do is to stall its implementation. But we have an even more surprising prediction to make, and that is that a great many of the very people who are warning the world about this dictator will one day accept the mark themselves. We will get to this later. But first...

Although there are minor disagreements about endtime prophecies, there is a great deal of agreement with regard to the Mark. After all, it's practically happening in front of our eyes. Banks persistently push people into using cards, whether lobbying for ID cards, offering incentives to switch to plastic, or supporting the latest card fad (e.g. 'Fly Buys'). They have the technology to bring in the Mark right now, but so far they have not been able to get the general public to accept it.

Outsmarting God...

But we are most concerned about are the knee-jerk reactions that so many people have to this and related prophecies.

Through Bullets...

Prophecies are not given so that the initiated can use them to outsmart God. The U.S. militia movement (which has been linked with the Oklahoma City bombing and the Waco, Texas, Branch Davidian cult) has sprung from attempts by Americans to arm themselves against the coming "Anti-Christ" (another name for the coming world leader). They have made the typical American blunder of thinking that weapons can buy them peace and security. Doomsday cults of all sorts have been given a bad name because of assumptions by some that they can fight violence with violence. No amount of weaponry will stop the Antichrist.

Through Bunkers...

But not all who believe a world dictator is coming have turned to violence. Many more have turned to refuges. They stockpile supplies, buy land in the wilderness, learn survival techniques, plan escape routes, build fallout shelters, and just generally dig in, with the aim of toughing it out during the persecution of people who do not take the Mark or in some other way conform with the coming one-world government. Obviously this is much safer than the militaristic approach. But it still misses the point of what the Revelation passage is trying to tell us. In itself this approach is primarily defensive, and as such is selfish. It places one's hope in material provision (the more the better) rather than in a loving God.

And Through Billy Graham

On the other extreme is the ask-Jesus-into-your-heart approach. These people do nothing practical. They get ready to die; but they do little or nothing about changing their present lifestyle. You don't need Bible prophecy to tell you that it is important to get right with God before you die. But if the prophecies are going to be fulfilled in the near future, then there must be something practical that we should be doing to prepare for them now.

Listen to the Lamb!

The answer lies in a broader understanding of prophecy. The full name of the last book of the Bible is The Revelation of Jesus Christ. And the opening verses tell us that it is a revelation given specifically to the servants of Jesus Christ. If you are not ready to serve (i.e. obey) Jesus, you will never find solutions to problems predicted in the Revelation.

The Revelation features a Lamb and a Beast. The Beast (the final world dictator) appears to have total power over the inhabitants of the earth; but the Lamb (Jesus) conquers the Beast in the end. Unless people are motivated to study and obey the teachings of the Lamb, they will never be able to escape the mark of the Beast. The passage about the mark goes on to say that it is somehow related to the "name of the Beast" or the number of his name, which is 666.

Computer bar codes (like the one on page 56) include three identical pairs of lines at the left, right and centre of the lines representing the number of the product you are buying. These three pairs of lines are slightly longer than the others, and in the most widely used coding system, they are the two lines that represent the number six.

Three sixes keep popping up at each stage of the move toward a cashless society. Bankcard featured three sixes inside of each other (one red, one orange, and one yellow) which supposedly represented the letter 'b'. The Keycard turned the six on its side and said it was a key. (See Revelation 13:16-18)

Wiser than Solomon?

We turned to the Bible to unravel the mystery of the number. Looking for the number 666 elsewhere in the Bible, we found it in I Kings 10:14 where it says the amount of gold that came to King Solomon in one year was 666 talents (about 25 tons!).

The Lamb (Jesus) referred to the events of this same chapter twice in his teachings: once when he said his teachings were greater than Solomon's wisdom, and yet the Queen of Sheba came to hear Solomon's wisdom, giving him all this gold in appreciation (Matthew 12:42); and once when he said that all of Solomon's wealth could not compare with what God could provide for those who would stop working for money and start working for God (Matthew 6:24-30). Jesus obviously expected people to listen to him in preference to Solomon.

The Prostitute and the Bride

Two other characters in The Revelation are a Prostitute, called Babylon (Revelation 17:1-5) and a Bride, called Jerusalem (Revelation 21:1-10). In the Gospels Jesus called this Bride the "kingdom from heaven". And he taught that God would provide the basic needs of anyone whose first goal in life was to promote this kingdom. (Matthew 6:31-33) Babylon as such is not mentioned in the gospels. Instead, Jesus says we have a choice between working for God or working for money. (Matthew 6:24) He says to give God what belongs to God and give Caesar what belongs to Caesar (Matthew 22:19-21), and suggests that money is all that Caesar has been able to create, whereas real wealth comes from his Father. He says that God's children owe the Caesars of the world nothing. (Matthew 17:24-26 KJV)

The greatest achievement of the Babylonian Empire was the invention of money. Throughout the centuries the spirit of Babylon has developed new ways to make it easier for the world's Solomons to move their tons of gold around. The electronic Mark spoken of in The Revelation is just the consummation of it all.

So what do we do?

Our response to the warnings of the Revelation are quite simple. We start obeying Jesus by learning to live by faith right now, working for God rather than working for money. St. John said, "You have heard that the Antichrist will come, but even now there are many antichrists." (I John 2:18) And just as we have heard that the Mark will come, even now there are many 'marks'. (What does Germany call its money?)

If we continue to put our faith in money, and to work for it, we play right into the hands of the Antichrist. We can say we will refuse to take the final mark when it comes, but we will almost certainly use the same excuses for taking it then as we use for disobeying everything else that Jesus said about money now.

Revelation 7:3-8 says that God's people also have a mark, and Jesus refers to this in John 6:27, when he says, "Do not work for the food that perishes." Jesus says our refusal to worry about material needs will set us apart from the rest of the world (Matthew 6:31-33) But the churches say, "We would starve if we took that literally."

Jesus says, "Sell what you own and give to the poor," (Luke 12:33) and they say, "He will forgive us if we don't follow that rule." Jesus says, "If you don't forsake everything that you own, you cannot be one of my followers," (Luke 14:33) and they say, "Times have changed. It won't work in today's world." Jesus says, "Teach others to obey all that I have said," (Matthew 28:19-20) and they say, "Nobody else is doing it, so why should we?"

So when he says, "Whoever receives the mark will feel the full strength of God's wrath," (Revelation 14:9-11) those who boast now that they will never take it will say, "We got away with disobeying everything else Jesus said. Why not ignore this one too."

In Conclusion

To sum it up, there is going to be a world government, and it is going to bring in a universal mark that will greatly improve the efficiency of banking, law enforcement, immigration, and related fields. Eventually the government will turn nasty and will execute literally millions of people. But that could be a long way down the track. In the meantime this new government and the new economic system it institutes is going to be a massive improvement on anything we have at the moment. No matter what anyone does to protest against the Mark, it will still come. Practically everyone will accept it, and you will almost certainly be one of those who does.

The only exceptions will be those who have taken the teachings of Jesus very seriously. If you are not more interested in knowing what Jesus taught than the Queen of Sheba was in knowing the wisdom of Solomon (Remember, she paid tons of gold to hear what he had to say.) then forget about it. You are pretty well destined to take the mark anyway, and you may as well eat, drink, and be merry until the end comes.

Of course if you are interested in following the teachings of Jesus, you can find them in the first four books of the New Testament (The Gospel According to Matthew, The Gospel According to Mark, The Gospel According to Luke, and The Gospel According to John). Study them (and obey them) like your eternal life depends on it. Because it does.

(See also God or Money, and

A Unique Teaching.)

Offline Elaine

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #24 on: Fri Aug 07, 2009 - 18:39:40 »
We have heard it all...well...we believe that we have heard it all.

And that is the reason for this thread.

The Mark of the Beast is something that every Christian wants to avoid...we don't want to accidentally get one. We are cautious about tattoos, in planted microchips, Social Security numbers and the like.

So...in keeping with scripture what and why do you believe that the Mark of the Beast will be or is.


We are careful of tattoos, microchips and SSNs?

I think that the mark of the beast is a mistranslation - I can send you links to explain if you want. 

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #25 on: Fri Aug 07, 2009 - 18:46:52 »
Did someone above just say that the mark of the beast was Sting?  ::bowing::

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #26 on: Fri Aug 07, 2009 - 19:21:41 »
Well, the examples did not paste - figures ---but it so clearly shows how the translators could have screwed up leading for centiries of misinterpretation ---
I'll just post the link so you can see for yourselves.  And remember I didn't make this stuff up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`


203
For example, a popular technique that many students and
scholars have employed in their efforts to decipher the meaning of
666 is the Gematria. The Gematria is a mystical form of numerology
that assigns a numerical value to each letter of any given
name. The sum totals of the letters are then added up, resulting in
the number of that individual’s name.
While intriguing, there are a variety of problems associated
with this approach. The most obvious being that this practice has
been labeled as occultism by many, which is strictly forbidden in
the Bible. Also, one could imagine that almost any name might be
manipulated in some fashion to produce the number 666. For instance,
this method has been used to identify numerous public figures
as the Antichrist, including our own Ronald Reagan, as well
as Mikhail Gorbachev, and even Prince Charles!
An additional problem with the Gematria arises in determining
which language should be used when assigning the numerical values.
Despite the fact that the Gematria is rooted in the Hebrew alphabet,
many scholars believe, for various reasons, that Greek,
Latin, or even English should be applied to solving this particular
riddle. The problems only compound from there.
Faced with the increasingly daunting task of decoding the
number, we pause to consider a key question: Would God tell us in
this verse to “count the number of the beast.

Offline Elaine

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #27 on: Fri Aug 07, 2009 - 19:24:40 »
Here's that link showing how such a huge mistake could so easily have been made...
it's way down like on page 6 maybe...
And don't be thinking I'm some heretic or something -rezara might like this.   :)


http://www.schneblin.com/studies/pdfs/mark_of_the_beast.pdf

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #28 on: Fri Aug 07, 2009 - 19:34:55 »
Quote
    In Plutarch's Convivial Questions, one of the guests claims to be able to prove that the god of the Jews is really
    Dionysus Sabazius, the Barley-god of Thrace and Phrygia; and Tacitus similarly records in his History...

I thought so.

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #29 on: Fri Aug 07, 2009 - 19:40:29 »

    Cast as Profane is the Hebrew cHALAL which is translated as to "play the flute, steal other's prop;erty, pollute and prostitute." It has the sam meaning as David's PRAISE word which was to "make himselve vile" and the source of the word LUCIFER. You can see the connection is this pasty:

   

   
    When Jubal taught people how to HANDLE musical instruments it has a sexual meaning and means in the Bible WITHOUT AUTHORITY

    http://www.piney.com/MuLamech.html

    Speaking of the religious ritual condemned by Amos and others we note that:

    The marzeah had an extremely long history extending at least from the 14th century B.C. through the Roman period. In the 14th century B.C., it was prominently associated with the ancient Canaanite city of Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra), on the coast of Syria...

    The marzeah was a pagan ritual that took the form of a social and religious association... Some scholars regard the funerary marzeah as a feast for--and with--deceased ancestors (or Rephaim, a proper name in the Bible for the inhabitants of Sheol)." (King, Biblical Archaeological Review, Aug,

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Well, now I understand. It was all because of the marzeah.




idiglove

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #30 on: Sat Aug 08, 2009 - 00:19:56 »
I'm sure others may be doing the same in regards to the article I pasted above, but I'm sorry Elaine, I just don't follow the logic in what you posted about the mark somehow mistakenly translates to "in the name of Allah". ::headscratch:: ::headscratch::

If so, what would the significance of no one being able to buy or sell anything without it? (Rev. 13:16-18)

This same question applies to most other interpretations that overlook the significance of that point. SDA's will tell you that it all boils down to what day of the week you attend church---Sunday worship being the mark.

But again, what about NOT being able to buy or sell at all without it?

Offline Elaine

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #31 on: Sat Aug 08, 2009 - 08:30:21 »
I just don't follow the logic in what you posted about the mark somehow mistakenly translates to "in the name of Allah". ::headscratch:: ::headscratch::

If so, what would the significance of no one being able to buy or sell anything without it? (Rev. 13:16-18)

But again, what about NOT being able to buy or sell at all without it?

Good point --I can't remember what all is in that link ---were there not pictures of Moslems with "Allah" written on all their foreheads, crowds of them?    If not, maybe that is what is meant --I dunno ---it was just an interesting link.

Did you see how easily the writing could have been misinterpreted - anyway - I did.

Translation is not as cut and dry as many think, imo.

:)

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #32 on: Sat Aug 08, 2009 - 10:26:33 »
We have heard it all...well...we believe that we have heard it all.

And that is the reason for this thread.

The Mark of the Beast is something that every Christian wants to avoid...we don't want to accidentily get one. We are cautious about tattoos, inplanted microchips, Social Security numbers and the like.

So...in keeping with scripture what and why do you believe that the Mark of the Beast will be or is.


And i thank God i didn't hear anything about this nonsense when i was hearing & studying the word of God! Or wasting my energy on such, when i was getting an academic education!

You don't have to worry about this prophecy anyway JohnDB- it  was completely fulfilled 2,000 yrs. ago.
It was Caesar worship by the unbelieving Jews, just to conform to the empire so they could trade from the temple.
The "mark" is no more literal than the "seal" on God's servants foreheads.

Mark on the head or hand is symbolic for their "thoughts" & "hand" for their "works."

It does not pertain to us in our modern civilized world.

It only makes out Christianity to look like deluded nutjobs to the world we must live in.

Like the 12th of Imam- the Shia Muslims savior prophecy.

It's all fiction today!

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #33 on: Sat Aug 08, 2009 - 13:20:04 »
So Rezar,
 you hold to a completely Preterest view?

So you want to explain then how this particular symbol was understood and explain how this is a completely fulfilled prophesy?

I am not so worried about this particular prophesy...I know my Jesus well...I ain't so easily taken in with things as a mark in order to buy or sell.

Online Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: THe Mark
« Reply #34 on: Mon Aug 10, 2009 - 18:53:38 »
I posted this for another thread, but it seems equally at home here:

An excerpt from the 1903 book The Mysteries of Mithra:

Tertullian also compared the confirmation of his co-religionists
[Mithraists] to the ceremony in which they "signed" the forehead of the
soldier. It appears, however, that the sign or seal impressed
was not, as in the Christian liturgy, an unction, but a mark
burned with a red-hot iron like that applied in the army to
recruits before they were admitted to the oath. This indelible
imprint perpetuated the memory of the solemn engagement by
which the person under vow contracted to serve in that order
of chivalry which Mithraism constituted.

Mithraism was a mystery cult popular with the emperors of Rome which indeed branded a mark into the foreheads of its initiates.  If the author above is quoting Tertullian correctly, it was also a Roman practice to brand recruits into their army in such a way as they impressed them into service and made them sware out their oath.

Hence, the mark could belong properly to that day and age and place where the Roman army forced conscription.