Author Topic: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times  (Read 1304 times)

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Offline raptureandendtimes

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The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« on: Fri Dec 20, 2019 - 14:11:17 »
For the Rapture algorithm, critical indicators include increasing “birth pains,” the invasion of Israel, a Middle East peace plan, the rise of the Beast, a one-world government, persecution of Christians, and the Mark of the Beast.
« Last Edit: Sun Jan 19, 2020 - 07:15:41 by Alan »

Offline robycop3

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #1 on: Sat Dec 21, 2019 - 11:29:52 »
  I believe the beast/antichrist will come before Israel is invaded. he will broker a deal between Israel & the Moslems, causing them all to disarm, making Israel "a land of unwalled villages", as Scripture says, making the  beast look like a genius. But the hatred will still be there, & before long, the disarmed diaper heads will offer Russia billions in petrorubles to arm & lead them against Israel.

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #2 on: Mon Dec 23, 2019 - 13:00:59 »
For the Rapture algorithm, critical indicators include increasing “birth pains,” the invasion of Israel, a Middle East peace plan, the rise of the Beast, a one-world government, persecution of Christians, and the Mark of the Beast.

The Rapture is a doctrine of cowards and fools.   The best part is that gullible fools will not EVER reason it out or accept the fact it was invented by an occult purveyor of spiritual rubbish in the mid-19th century.

It is a religious mcguffin of the highest order.   Proof here is that whether one believes rapture rubbish or not makes NO DIFFERENCE in one's spiritual destiny.  Its trashy dogma presented to gullible American protestants so as to promote badly written books and magazine articles.  If a preacher's sermon starts to get boring, all the fool has to do is mention rapture and his comatose congregation will rise up with one voice and say amen. 

A fool can say he believes in the rapture and then go out and lie cheat steal and murder and still compliment himself on his grand appreciation of the gospel. 

I have never in my life encountered such a serious mob of mental midgets as those who believe in the rapture.   They will just as certainly vouch for their coward's fantasy as understand that Jesus once said it wouldn't happen.

"I am NOT asking that You (Father) take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one." - Jesus as quoted in John 17:15

Now rapture fans will immediately tell me I've taken this quote out of context, to which I may reply that a liar's sanctuary is always in lies and in the promotion of lies.  Any truth, even that spoken by Christ Himself, is to be ridiculed and disallowed in favor of the lie.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Offline lea

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jan 13, 2020 - 18:22:54 »
The Rapture is a doctrine of cowards and fools.   The best part is that gullible fools will not EVER reason it out or accept the fact it was invented by an occult purveyor of spiritual rubbish in the mid-19th century.

It is a religious mcguffin of the highest order.   Proof here is that whether one believes rapture rubbish or not makes NO DIFFERENCE in one's spiritual destiny.  Its trashy dogma presented to gullible American protestants so as to promote badly written books and magazine articles.  If a preacher's sermon starts to get boring, all the fool has to do is mention rapture and his comatose congregation will rise up with one voice and say amen. 

A fool can say he believes in the rapture and then go out and lie cheat steal and murder and still compliment himself on his grand appreciation of the gospel. 

I have never in my life encountered such a serious mob of mental midgets as those who believe in the rapture.   They will just as certainly vouch for their coward's fantasy as understand that Jesus once said it wouldn't happen.

"I am NOT asking that You (Father) take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one." - Jesus as quoted in John 17:15

Now rapture fans will immediately tell me I've taken this quote out of context, to which I may reply that a liar's sanctuary is always in lies and in the promotion of lies.  Any truth, even that spoken by Christ Himself, is to be ridiculed and disallowed in favor of the lie.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Such a good laugh from your post here!  Gullible fools who listen to false prophets like Hal Lindsay and Christian Zionists like J.Hagee.

"religious mcguffin"   rofl   ....  Precious.

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jan 13, 2020 - 18:22:54 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline 4WD

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #4 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 05:00:21 »
Such a good laugh from your post here!  Gullible fools who listen to false prophets like Hal Lindsay and Christian Zionists like J.Hagee.

"religious mcguffin"   rofl   ....  Precious.
Actually the whole Preterism/Premillennialism/Postmillennialism McGuffin is a good laugh.

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #4 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 05:00:21 »



Offline lea

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #5 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 10:38:20 »
Actually the whole Preterism/Premillennialism/Postmillennialism McGuffin is a good laugh.

Sounds like you don't believe we are in the "end times."  Good for you. I agree.

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #6 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 11:38:37 »
Sounds like you don't believe we are in the "end times."  Good for you. I agree.
Not at all.  I agree full well that we are in the end times, which began with Jesus first coming and will end with His second coming at the end of the age.

Offline lea

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #7 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 12:30:54 »
Not at all.  I agree full well that we are in the end times, which began with Jesus first coming and will end with His second coming at the end of the age.

What age would that be? 

 Matthew 24:3-14 (ESV)
Signs of the End of the Age

3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. 5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not alarmed, for this must take place, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are but the beginning of the birth pains.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away[a] and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.


So you think Jesus was speaking to you in that passage about the end of the age instead of the apostles/ disciples?
« Last Edit: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 12:35:11 by lea »

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #8 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 12:41:36 »
Sounds like you don't believe we are in the "end times."  Good for you. I agree.

Curiosity begs that you tell us all what things will be the signs that will make us be in the end times?

Mathew 24:

3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for [a]all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

You do not think we are to the point of saying 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.?

Really?

We always hear of wars and rumors of war. The last rumor was barely a few days ago with POTUS executing that terrorist.

We always hear of  nation rising against nation. That is ongoing especially the mid east. Famines, we hear of those somewhere around the world in the 3rd world countries... pestilences are increasing as we cannot control them. and earthquakes....

First 9 days of 2019 and only in alaska.

Alaska notoriously experiences a lot of seismic activity, and in the first nine days of 2019 has been shaken by 81 earthquakes of a magnitude 2.5 or higher according to the United States Geological Survey. Of these, five have been magnitude 4.5 or higher, with one reaching magnitude 6.1. This huge quake took place 54km south-southwest of Tanaga Volcano on January 5.
https://freedomoutpost.com/2019-81-significant-earthquakes-in-alaska-so-far/

And these are just the beginnings of sorrows.

Just think back to Sodom and Gomorrah. God took them out and spared a handful of people. And they were jusy wanting a little "fun on the side" with the angels.

No transgender people swapping roles in life. No gay marriages. No taking a new born baby and then deciding if it was convenient for the mother to allow it to live.

Gives new meaning to

" “But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.”

For might well be a condemnation of those that get pregnant and bring a child into this sinful world. Maybe.

We are in the end times. For how long I do not know but rest assured if we aren't then we better stop bringing children into a world to face the hellish existence that is only going to get worse.

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #9 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 12:43:28 »
What age would that be? 


Seriously?

The world will never end. But the age that we live will come to an end. If you cannot understand that you need further study

Offline lea

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #10 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 13:19:41 »
Seriously?

The world will never end. But the age that we live will come to an end. If you cannot understand that you need further study

Well, I disagree. First, the "world" we live in will someday end when all the energy from the sun and stars is depleted. It's millions of years away- but technically it will end someday.

Next, we are in the new covenant age, and this age of grace doesn't end.

Lk. 18:
29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times more in this age—and in the age to come, eternal life.”


I suggest studying covenant eschatology. ::nodding::

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #11 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 16:43:52 »
Hi seekingHiswisdom,

We are on the same page as far as this world (the planet itself) not having a scheduled end, but with this current New Covenant Age coming to a concluding point in our future.  I also believe these things are true.

Here is where we differ, though.  You spoke of “the beginning of sorrows” with its “wars and rumors of wars” etc. as applying to the current state of affairs in this present-day world.  That’s not possible.  The context of this part of the Olivet discourse also includes ALONG WITH that “beginning of sorrows” Christ’s warning that “they shall deliver you up to COUNCILS; and IN THE SYNAGOGUES YE SHALL BE BEATEN: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.”  These “councils” Christ was speaking of were connected with the Sanhedrin, and the result of the apostles and disciples being brought before them was that they were beaten in the synagogues for teaching the gospel counter to Judaism, just as it came to pass for the disciples of the early church as recorded in Acts and the epistles.

The “kings and rulers” that Christ said the disciples would have to defend themselves in front of were those such as King Agrippa, Governor Felix and Festus, and eventually the emperor Nero for the apostle Paul. 

You and I will never be brought before the Sanhedrin.  This threat does not exist for believers today, as it did in the days of the early church.  Neither will we be beaten in the synagogues and cast out of them for teaching the gospel contrary to Judaism, for that is not the law of the land with any authority over the public today.

Moreover, anyone who believes that conditions in this world will only get worse and worse until everything finally collapses at the end with Christ’s return is not remembering the optimistic outlook that Christ had for the inevitable progress of the kingdom of God in this world. 

Remember the invisibly-slow, but inevitable growth of the leaven, which the kingdom of God is compared to.  Also the mustard seed that it is compared to, which, contrary to its small size to begin with, ends up becoming the greatest of all herbs.  Likewise the promise that the stone which crushed Daniel’s statue to dust will grow until it fills the world.  And best of all, we have the promise that “of the INCREASE of His government and of His peace THERE SHALL BE NO END.”  Peace between God and increasing numbers of creatures who recognize Him as their Lord will not end, even when this New Covenant Age has come to a close at the final resurrection.

Do we really think that when this New Covenant Age comes to an end at the last judgment that this will have exhausted all of God’s creative abilities?  I don’t think so.  He is perfectly capable of starting another phase of creative work if He so chooses during any ages that follow this one we are currently in.

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #12 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 18:43:29 »
Well, I disagree. First, the "world" we live in will someday end when all the energy from the sun and stars is depleted. It's millions of years away- but technically it will end someday.

Next, we are in the new covenant age, and this age of grace doesn't end.

Lk. 18:
29“Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God 30will fail to receive many times more in this age—and in the age to come, eternal life.”


I suggest studying covenant eschatology. ::nodding::

I suggest you read exactly the words you quoted and explain what it is that tells you that I suggested anything about the age of grace ending other then it ending here on earth?

Jesus said " will fail to receive many times more in this age" ... No argument from me....

Jesus said "and in the age to come, eternal life"... Which says if there is an age to come... the current "this" age will cease.

This age will not continue forever.

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #13 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 19:48:34 »
I suggest you read exactly the words you quoted and explain what it is that tells you that I suggested anything about the age of grace ending other then it ending here on earth?

Jesus said " will fail to receive many times more in this age" ... No argument from me....

Jesus said "and in the age to come, eternal life"... Which says if there is an age to come... the current "this" age will cease.

This age will not continue forever.


Lk 20:34 And Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, 35 but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and to the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage, 36 for they cannot die anymore, because they are equal to angels and are sons of God, being sons[g] of the resurrection.


Jesus was answering the Sadducees , who didn't believe in the Resurrection from the dead.

We ARE in the "age to come" in the Bible.  "This age" or "this present evil age" in Scripture was the Old Covenant age that ended in AD70.

There is "this age" in Scripture and there is "the age to come."
The apostles and disciples were living in the present evil age (present to them).

Jesus came to fulfill the Law but also He was the end of the Law.

The disciples were still in the old covenant age - the "this age" to them.

But the Law and that Old Covenant age passed away and Jew and Gentile in Christ is in the New covenant of grace. This is what the age to come meant/means.

Your approach is off. The "this age" in the Bible is NOT our current age.


1Cor.11:25, In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”


God said the same of the Old Covenant through Moses:
Exodus 24:8
So Moses took the blood, sprinkled it on the people, and said, "This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words."


Jeremiah 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
.



« Last Edit: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 19:51:09 by lea »

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #14 on: Tue Jan 14, 2020 - 21:53:12 »
Hi lea,

Everything you just wrote above is perfectly on target.  That “age to come” truly was the transition to the age when the unshaken kingdom of the New Covenant would finally be standing alone without any leftover rival elements from the Old Covenant to offer competition.

But there is still at the very least one age more AFTER this New Covenant Age comes to a conclusion in our future.   Ephesians 2:7 proves this beyond a doubt.  “That in the AGES (PLURAL) to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.”

This verse was written in roughly AD 62-64, from the perspective of the particular age Paul was then occupying, which was just before the transition to the New Covenant Age in AD 70.  That New Covenant Age was on the brink of being manifested as Paul was writing. 

But according to this Eph. 2:7 verse, Paul was speaking of PLURAL AGES beyond his own OC Age.  Of necessity, this would then require a culmination point for the New Covenant Age, and at least one more (maybe even an ENDLESS future number of ages) that would follow after that soon-coming New Covenant Age.

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #15 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 04:30:54 »
What age would that be? 
This age; the age between Christ's first coming and His second coming, which is yet to happen. The following is from Cottrell's book. "The Faith Once For All: Bible Doctrine For Today", published by College Press Publishing Company, Inc..

The question of the manner of Christ’s second coming is this: exactly what will it be like? (See Hoekema, Bible, 171-172.) First we note that his coming will be personal. The risen Lord himself, the same person who was here during his incarnate ministry, will come back to this earth. It will not be just the coming of his spirit or Spirit; it will not be just the triumph of his teachings in the world. At his ascension the angels told his disciples that “this Jesus,” the same one “who has been taken up from you into heaven,” is the one who will return (Acts 1:11). “The Lord Himself will descend from heaven,” says Paul (1 Thess 4:16).

Second, his return will be visible. In this sense it could also be described as literal, bodily, physical, and even audible. This is opposed to all those who say that the second coming will be hidden or secret, or that it will result in just a spiritual presence. That his coming is an appearing (epiphaneia) and a revelation (apokalypsis) underscores its visibility. Hebrews 9:28 says Christ “will appear a second time,” i.e., will become visible, will be seen just as he was the first time. He “will be revealed from heaven” (2 Thess 1:7). Titus 2:11-13 implies that his second coming will be an appearing just as much as his first coming was (Hoekema, Bible, 171-172). As the disciples “were gazing intently” while Jesus was ascending into heaven, the angels said to them, “This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven” (Acts 1:11). The implication that his second coming will be visible is inescapable. Revelation 1:7 clearly says, “Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him.” This same language is used in Matt 24:30: “All the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds.” Emphasizing Christ’s resurrection body, 1 John 3:2 says that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.” See also Col 3:4; Heb 9:28. Surely such teaching rules out all claims that the second coming was or will be somehow just an invisible, spiritual presence of Christ, a view espoused by liberalism (Berkhof, 705) and preterism. A representative of the latter view, John Noe, says, “We need to wean ourselves from the idea that the Presence of Jesus, who is God, must be visible or somehow material” (End Times, 199). Dispensational premillennialism says that the “first” second coming, the one that is supposed to result in the secret rapture according to 1 Thess 4:16, is itself secret and invisible. But the coming portrayed in that text is a literal, physical, eminently public event: “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God.” Three distinct sounds will be heard: Christ’s own voice uttering “a cry of command” (ESV) or “a loud command” (NIV)—see Matt 13:41; 24:31; the voice of an archangel—see Rev 11:15; and a trumpet—see Matt 24:31; 1 Cor 15:52.

In the third place Christ’s coming will be sudden or unexpected. Matthew 24:27 compares it with the instantaneous abruptness of a bolt of lightning: “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be” (see Luke 17:24).7 The comparison of his coming with the coming of a “thief in the night” (1 Thess 5:2) also emphasizes this point: “But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into. You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect” (Luke 12:39-40; see Matt 24:43; 2 Pet 3:10; Rev 3:3; 16:15). The suddenness of his coming will be due in part to our preoccupation with ordinary things (Matt 24:37-41), and in part simply to the fact that the exact time of his coming is unknown: “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone” (Matt 24:36; see 25:13; Mark 13:32-33; Luke 12:40). This is the basis for the many biblical exhortations to be alert and to be ready for the time of his coming: “For this reason you must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will” (Matt 24:44; see Luke 12:40). “Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come” (Mark 13:33; see 13:34-37; Matt 25:13).

A final point is that Christ’s coming will be triumphant and glorious. He will return “on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory” (Matt 24:30). He will come “in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne” as Ruler and Judge of the universe (Matt 25:31). He will be “revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel” (2 Thess 1:7-8). This includes a final, miraculous victory over all his enemies (2 Thess 2:8; Rev 20:9-10), and a celebration of adoring worship from his people, as he comes “to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed” (2 Thess 1:10).

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #16 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 08:47:16 »
This age; the age between Christ's first coming and His second coming, which is yet to happen. The following is from Cottrell's book. "The Faith Once For All: Bible Doctrine For Today", published by College Press Publishing Company, Inc..

The question of the manner of Christ’s second coming is this: exactly what will it be like? (See Hoekema, Bible, 171-172.) First we note that his coming will be personal. The risen Lord himself, the same person who was here during his incarnate ministry, will come back to this earth. It will not be just the coming of his spirit or Spirit; it will not be just the triumph of his teachings in the world. At his ascension the angels told his disciples that “this Jesus,” the same one “who has been taken up from you into heaven,” is the one who will return (Acts 1:11). “The Lord Himself will descend from heaven,” says Paul (1 Thess 4:16).

Second, his return will be visible. In this sense it could also be described as literal, bodily, physical, and even audible. This is opposed to all those who say that the second coming will be hidden or secret, or that it will result in just a spiritual presence. That his coming is an appearing (epiphaneia) and a revelation (apokalypsis) underscores its visibility. Hebrews 9:28 says Christ “will appear a second time,” i.e., will become visible, will be seen just as he was the first time. He “will be revealed from heaven” (2 Thess 1:7). Titus 2:11-13 implies that his second coming will be an appearing just as much as his first coming was (Hoekema, Bible, 171-172). As the disciples “were gazing intently” while Jesus was ascending into heaven, the angels said to them, “This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven” (Acts 1:11). The implication that his second coming will be visible is inescapable. Revelation 1:7 clearly says, “Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him.” This same language is used in Matt 24:30: “All the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds.” Emphasizing Christ’s resurrection body, 1 John 3:2 says that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.” See also Col 3:4; Heb 9:28. Surely such teaching rules out all claims that the second coming was or will be somehow just an invisible, spiritual presence of Christ, a view espoused by liberalism (Berkhof, 705) and preterism. A representative of the latter view, John Noe, says, “We need to wean ourselves from the idea that the Presence of Jesus, who is God, must be visible or somehow material” (End Times, 199). Dispensational premillennialism says that the “first” second coming, the one that is supposed to result in the secret rapture according to 1 Thess 4:16, is itself secret and invisible. But the coming portrayed in that text is a literal, physical, eminently public event: “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God.” Three distinct sounds will be heard: Christ’s own voice uttering “a cry of command” (ESV) or “a loud command” (NIV)—see Matt 13:41; 24:31; the voice of an archangel—see Rev 11:15; and a trumpet—see Matt 24:31; 1 Cor 15:52.

In the third place Christ’s coming will be sudden or unexpected. Matthew 24:27 compares it with the instantaneous abruptness of a bolt of lightning: “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be” (see Luke 17:24).7 The comparison of his coming with the coming of a “thief in the night” (1 Thess 5:2) also emphasizes this point: “But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into. You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect” (Luke 12:39-40; see Matt 24:43; 2 Pet 3:10; Rev 3:3; 16:15). The suddenness of his coming will be due in part to our preoccupation with ordinary things (Matt 24:37-41), and in part simply to the fact that the exact time of his coming is unknown: “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone” (Matt 24:36; see 25:13; Mark 13:32-33; Luke 12:40). This is the basis for the many biblical exhortations to be alert and to be ready for the time of his coming: “For this reason you must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will” (Matt 24:44; see Luke 12:40). “Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come” (Mark 13:33; see 13:34-37; Matt 25:13).

A final point is that Christ’s coming will be triumphant and glorious. He will return “on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory” (Matt 24:30). He will come “in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne” as Ruler and Judge of the universe (Matt 25:31). He will be “revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel” (2 Thess 1:7-8). This includes a final, miraculous victory over all his enemies (2 Thess 2:8; Rev 20:9-10), and a celebration of adoring worship from his people, as he comes “to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed” (2 Thess 1:10).


Thank you for posting this reply. I have not yet read this book.

+1

Offline lea

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #17 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 10:28:45 »
Hi lea,

Everything you just wrote above is perfectly on target.  That “age to come” truly was the transition to the age when the unshaken kingdom of the New Covenant would finally be standing alone without any leftover rival elements from the Old Covenant to offer competition.

But there is still at the very least one age more AFTER this New Covenant Age comes to a conclusion in our future.   Ephesians 2:7 proves this beyond a doubt.  “That in the AGES (PLURAL) to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.”

This verse was written in roughly AD 62-64, from the perspective of the particular age Paul was then occupying, which was just before the transition to the New Covenant Age in AD 70.  That New Covenant Age was on the brink of being manifested as Paul was writing. 

But according to this Eph. 2:7 verse, Paul was speaking of PLURAL AGES beyond his own OC Age.  Of necessity, this would then require a culmination point for the New Covenant Age, and at least one more (maybe even an ENDLESS future number of ages) that would follow after that soon-coming New Covenant Age.


Hi 3R's,
I do think you may be over analyzing Eph.2:7.

http://www.bereanbiblechurch.org/transcripts/ephesians/eph-02_07-09_gift-of-yahweh.htm

(So what does Paul mean in Ephesians 2:7 by "ages to come"? Well Paul makes the typical two-age distinction in 1:21 ("not only in this age, but also in the one to come"), so now he is likely referring to all the coming centuries of time relative to the writing of the letter. He may simply be saying, "God, for all eternity, will be unfolding new revelations to us of the blessings that we have in Christ." Charles Hodge, commenting on "ages to come, writes, "It is better therefore to take it without limitation, for all future time." I agree. )

Offline lea

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #18 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 10:45:25 »
This age; the age between Christ's first coming and His second coming, which is yet to happen. The following is from Cottrell's book. "The Faith Once For All: Bible Doctrine For Today", published by College Press Publishing Company, Inc..

The question of the manner of Christ’s second coming is this: exactly what will it be like? (See Hoekema, Bible, 171-172.) First we note that his coming will be personal. The risen Lord himself, the same person who was here during his incarnate ministry, will come back to this earth. It will not be just the coming of his spirit or Spirit; it will not be just the triumph of his teachings in the world. At his ascension the angels told his disciples that “this Jesus,” the same one “who has been taken up from you into heaven,” is the one who will return (Acts 1:11). “The Lord Himself will descend from heaven,” says Paul (1 Thess 4:16).

Second, his return will be visible. In this sense it could also be described as literal, bodily, physical, and even audible. This is opposed to all those who say that the second coming will be hidden or secret, or that it will result in just a spiritual presence. That his coming is an appearing (epiphaneia) and a revelation (apokalypsis) underscores its visibility. Hebrews 9:28 says Christ “will appear a second time,” i.e., will become visible, will be seen just as he was the first time. He “will be revealed from heaven” (2 Thess 1:7). Titus 2:11-13 implies that his second coming will be an appearing just as much as his first coming was (Hoekema, Bible, 171-172). As the disciples “were gazing intently” while Jesus was ascending into heaven, the angels said to them, “This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven” (Acts 1:11). The implication that his second coming will be visible is inescapable. Revelation 1:7 clearly says, “Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him.” This same language is used in Matt 24:30: “All the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds.” Emphasizing Christ’s resurrection body, 1 John 3:2 says that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.” See also Col 3:4; Heb 9:28. Surely such teaching rules out all claims that the second coming was or will be somehow just an invisible, spiritual presence of Christ, a view espoused by liberalism (Berkhof, 705) and preterism. A representative of the latter view, John Noe, says, “We need to wean ourselves from the idea that the Presence of Jesus, who is God, must be visible or somehow material” (End Times, 199). Dispensational premillennialism says that the “first” second coming, the one that is supposed to result in the secret rapture according to 1 Thess 4:16, is itself secret and invisible. But the coming portrayed in that text is a literal, physical, eminently public event: “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God.” Three distinct sounds will be heard: Christ’s own voice uttering “a cry of command” (ESV) or “a loud command” (NIV)—see Matt 13:41; 24:31; the voice of an archangel—see Rev 11:15; and a trumpet—see Matt 24:31; 1 Cor 15:52.

In the third place Christ’s coming will be sudden or unexpected. Matthew 24:27 compares it with the instantaneous abruptness of a bolt of lightning: “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be” (see Luke 17:24).7 The comparison of his coming with the coming of a “thief in the night” (1 Thess 5:2) also emphasizes this point: “But be sure of this, that if the head of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have allowed his house to be broken into. You too, be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour that you do not expect” (Luke 12:39-40; see Matt 24:43; 2 Pet 3:10; Rev 3:3; 16:15). The suddenness of his coming will be due in part to our preoccupation with ordinary things (Matt 24:37-41), and in part simply to the fact that the exact time of his coming is unknown: “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone” (Matt 24:36; see 25:13; Mark 13:32-33; Luke 12:40). This is the basis for the many biblical exhortations to be alert and to be ready for the time of his coming: “For this reason you must be ready; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will” (Matt 24:44; see Luke 12:40). “Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time will come” (Mark 13:33; see 13:34-37; Matt 25:13).

A final point is that Christ’s coming will be triumphant and glorious. He will return “on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory” (Matt 24:30). He will come “in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne” as Ruler and Judge of the universe (Matt 25:31). He will be “revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel” (2 Thess 1:7-8). This includes a final, miraculous victory over all his enemies (2 Thess 2:8; Rev 20:9-10), and a celebration of adoring worship from his people, as he comes “to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed” (2 Thess 1:10).


Totally disagree. Read your Bible with "audience relevance" in mind. See when and who was in the "this age" up to AD70 when after that was the Resurrection of the dead and "the age to come" came (age we are in NOW.)

You say Jesus has to have "a final victory"  Nonsense. His victory in the Bible was completed and those who believe "possess/ed the kingdom."
Daniel 7:27
And the kingdom and the dominion
    and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven
    shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High;
his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom,
    and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’[c]

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #19 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 11:11:01 »
Lea,

I notice you totally have ignored...perhaps because it has not been brought up.... the Millenium.


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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #20 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 11:48:37 »
Totally disagree.
Oh golly, that is a surprise  --  NOT.  Much of what I posted relates to the visible return of Jesus; that all will witness His return.  Yet you can't point to a single account of anyone who has witnesses His return that you claim has happened.  The entire Preterist Proposal is such a farce.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #21 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 12:03:06 »
Hey again lea,

I have already read Pastor Curtis’ views and listened to his sermons on this subject of the ages.  Though I have a hearty respect for this gentleman, and agree with very much that he teaches, I do have to part company with him on the position that there are only two ages of the world.  This is also the rabbinic position, and scripture does not confirm this only-2-age theory for world history.  According to Paul’s language, there were PAST PLURAL AGES even before the old Covenant was made (I Cor. 10:11 and Heb. 9:26 - ESV) and there were to be FUTURE PLURAL AGES even after the Old Covenant was made (Eph. 2:6-7 and 3:21).

You may consider the use of plural versus singular to be “over analyzing” this issue, but I would remind you that Paul did the same thing on another major point of doctrine.  I am sure you recall Galatians 3:16, where Paul based his entire argument on the use of the SINGULAR for the word “SEED” (which was Christ) versus the PLURAL for the word “SEEDS” (as of many).  A critical doctrinal position was hanging on just that one letter.

Same thing here with regard to the word “AGE” (singular) versus the word “AGES” (plural).  Paul absolutely meant to refer to more than one age to come after the Old Covenant was dissolved.  It is a mistake to render the word in a vague, generic fashion, as your sources of Charles Hodge and Pastor Curtis have done.  It’s convenient for their view that thinks an age has a beginning but no ending point, but it’s not even logical.  An age has both a beginning AND AN ENDING POINT.  That’s the very definition of what an age is.

Offline lea

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #22 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 12:33:20 »
3R's,

Well, if "the age" to come was God gathering "all Israel" into the New Covenant, I cannot see in the Bible any "ending" of this age (age to come).

There's no mention between "ages" (plural) and our age now. So, I agree with the expositor when he says that it just means the future of His grace extending forever.

Notice Paul did not describe those "ages."  And Jesus only described "the age to come."

Who knows if there will be another age in the distant future? It isn't described in the Bible, so I know I could only speculate what that would look like.

Thanks again for your reply.  I'd settle on "maybe" there would be.  ::smile::

Offline lea

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #23 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 12:56:53 »
Lea,

I notice you totally have ignored...perhaps because it has not been brought up.... the Millenium.

The thousand years is not literal. Just as the angel didn't have a literal "key and chain" to put the lid on Satan.
I do believe that Satan was bound meaning he could not prevent the gospel being spread during the time of the apostles and disciples of Christ's commission. That happened in the 1st century AD.

I am more of a reader than a writer,  so here is an excerpt from a link referring to the thousand years- you can read its entirety at  https://www.anewdaydawning.com/blog-1/2016/11/10/crushing-millennium-myths-revelation-20

B. What does the Greek Mean?

5507 xílioi – properly, a thousand; the product of 10 x 10 x 10 (103, ten cubed); (figuratively) emphatic, total inclusiveness, showing no one (nothing) is left out. ["Ten" in Scripture can already express the symbolic meaning "completely" (inclusively) so 5507 (xílioi) as the cube of 10 ("a thousand") powerfully stresses the meaning "full/inclusive" (totality).]

According to the “fullness” scriptures, the fullness of time was in Jesus’ period of history, under the Law, not ours. 

    Galatians 4:4, In the FULLNESS of time God sent his Son born of a woman, born UNDER the Law. "

    Eph 1:10, "that in the dispensation of the FULLNESS of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him."

    Luke 21:20-24, “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. “Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled." 

    Acts 3:24, “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days.”

In these passages Jesus warns THAT generation about the fall of Jerusalem, and he does so by saying that this is a period in history where everything that had been written was being fulfilled.

The fullness of time and the millennium are the same thing. The 10x10x10 is the idea of emphasis that the all inclusive fullness of time when the promises of the scriptures all come to fulfillment are happening. So it is not a literal 1000 years. It is a figure of speech to describe a period in history when all the promises to Israel would come to fulfillment. It was the fullness of time.



 

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #24 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 16:10:50 »

The thousand years is not literal. Just as the angel didn't have a literal "key and chain" to put the lid on Satan.
I do believe that Satan was bound meaning he could not prevent the gospel being spread during the time of the apostles and disciples of Christ's commission. That happened in the 1st century AD.

I am more of a reader than a writer,  so here is an excerpt from a link referring to the thousand years- you can read its entirety at  https://www.anewdaydawning.com/blog-1/2016/11/10/crushing-millennium-myths-revelation-20

B. What does the Greek Mean?

5507 xílioi – properly, a thousand; the product of 10 x 10 x 10 (103, ten cubed); (figuratively) emphatic, total inclusiveness, showing no one (nothing) is left out. ["Ten" in Scripture can already express the symbolic meaning "completely" (inclusively) so 5507 (xílioi) as the cube of 10 ("a thousand") powerfully stresses the meaning "full/inclusive" (totality).]

According to the “fullness” scriptures, the fullness of time was in Jesus’ period of history, under the Law, not ours. 

    Galatians 4:4, In the FULLNESS of time God sent his Son born of a woman, born UNDER the Law. "

    Eph 1:10, "that in the dispensation of the FULLNESS of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him."

    Luke 21:20-24, “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. “Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled." 

    Acts 3:24, “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days.”

In these passages Jesus warns THAT generation about the fall of Jerusalem, and he does so by saying that this is a period in history where everything that had been written was being fulfilled.

The fullness of time and the millennium are the same thing. The 10x10x10 is the idea of emphasis that the all inclusive fullness of time when the promises of the scriptures all come to fulfillment are happening. So it is not a literal 1000 years. It is a figure of speech to describe a period in history when all the promises to Israel would come to fulfillment. It was the fullness of time.


 ::doh::

The folly of youth.

Offline lea

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #25 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 18:52:20 »
::doh::

The folly of youth.

When one gets old it's harder to change the viewpoint they have held for many years.

I'm happy a full Preterist enlightened me online when I first heard about "the millennium." I asked questions for 2 days wondering why people said something that looked and sounded like it was straight out of science fiction movie! This wasn't the Bible I knew. It was 10-12 years ago.

I had a good preacher just before that time in a church for about 2 years. In say 100 sermons, I looked back on my notes, and the phrase "when Jesus returns" was mentioned only once.
I wrote it but I didn't notice it at all. Too busy "hearing" about faith in the OT and New.

So it is harder to change if you have believed a certain way for a long time.

Some still do though. Even the preachers!
 


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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #26 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 21:32:08 »
.











« Last Edit: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 21:39:24 by Rella »

Offline seekingHiswisdom

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #27 on: Wed Jan 15, 2020 - 21:37:07 »
When one gets old it's harder to change the viewpoint they have held for many years.

I'm happy a full Preterist enlightened me online when I first heard about "the millennium." I asked questions for 2 days wondering why people said something that looked and sounded like it was straight out of science fiction movie! This wasn't the Bible I knew. It was 10-12 years ago.

I had a good preacher just before that time in a church for about 2 years. In say 100 sermons, I looked back on my notes, and the phrase "when Jesus returns" was mentioned only once.
I wrote it but I didn't notice it at all. Too busy "hearing" about faith in the OT and New.

So it is harder to change if you have believed a certain way for a long time.

Some still do though. Even the preachers!

The thing is.  God does not change. Ever!

It is man who has changed much of the written word by reinterpreting over and over again. Just look at how many English versions of the bible there are.

All with seemingly the same meaning until someone comes around and says that is not the translation from Greek or whatever....
then the gloves come off and the words fly in the debates.... OR

Someone gets all scholarly and writes a book or starts preaching on TV until "their" ideas and opinions are being followed by many.

Good grief.... just look at an error in the King James Version.  The one that was "the accepted" bible for the masses for most of my life
in my protestant churches.

I am referring to Acts 12: 4

And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

This is the only place you will see the word Easter used here because it was not Easter... yet... it was to be after Passover.

So when you say it was not in the bible, or that the meaning in the bible is not what I believe it to be.... it is a weak arguement.

You say of the following " The thousand years is not literal. Just as the angel didn't have a literal "key and chain" to put the lid on Satan.

Revelation 20:4 - And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:1-15 - And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.   

Revelation 20:7 - And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Did you come to that from personal revelation or from following someone who sounded good and reasonable in his ideas?

The following definition is about as clear as mud in that even those who do believe in the 1000 years do not agree.

Millennium


A thousand years; the name given to the era mentioned in Rev. 20:1-7. Some maintain that Christ will personally appear on earth for the purpose of establishing his kingdom at the beginning of this millennium. Those holding this view are "usually called "millenarians." On the other hand, it is" "maintained, more in accordance with the teaching of Scripture," "we think, that Christ's second advent will not be premillennial," and that the right conception of the prospects and destiny of "his kingdom is that which is taught, e.g., in the parables of" "the leaven and the mustard-seed. The triumph of the gospel, it" "is held, must be looked for by the wider and more efficient" operation of the very forces that are now at work in extending the gospel; and that Christ will only come again at the close of "this dispensation to judge the world at the "last day." The" millennium will thus precede his coming.

But still holds a viable idea for the fact of it being in the bible.... albeit confusing.

You quoted

"The fullness of time and the millennium are the same thing. The 10x10x10 is the idea of emphasis that the all inclusive fullness of time when the promises of the scriptures all come to fulfillment are happening. So it is not a literal 1000 years. It is a figure of speech to describe a period in history when all the promises to Israel would come to fulfillment. It was the fullness of time."

AND

"and he does so by saying that this is a period in history where everything that had been written was being fulfilled"

Ummmm not exactly.

You further quote

"so that all things which are written will be fulfilled."

...........Will be  does not say was being fulfilled.... it says will be... at some point in the future.

"“Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days."

.......... Again, yes the prophets have foretold them... but not when they would be fulfilled, just that they would happen.

AS TO THE verses in Revelation....

REMEMBER.

We are told John of Patmos, ( some say John the Elder, and others John the apostle) wrote Revelation. (Others will even suggest someone else)

We are told it was written between 60 and 70 AD and some say up to 98AD.  (This after Jesus was crucified, dead and resurrected)

We are told  in Revelation itself. NKJV

Introduction and Benediction

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John,

2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.

3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Vision of the Son of Man

9 I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,

11 saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

NOW.... as this was written after Jesus, and was a vision given to John, by Jesus....."The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants".... and...."  bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw"

Jesus revealed to John about the 1000 years and the chains etc.

After his time on earth.

Because it was time for this revelation to be made to mankind.

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #28 on: Thu Jan 16, 2020 - 07:54:18 »
When one gets old it's harder to change the viewpoint they have held for many years.

I'm happy a full Preterist enlightened me online when I first heard about "the millennium." I asked questions for 2 days wondering why people said something that looked and sounded like it was straight out of science fiction movie! This wasn't the Bible I knew. It was 10-12 years ago.

I had a good preacher just before that time in a church for about 2 years. In say 100 sermons, I looked back on my notes, and the phrase "when Jesus returns" was mentioned only once.
I wrote it but I didn't notice it at all. Too busy "hearing" about faith in the OT and New.

So it is harder to change if you have believed a certain way for a long time.

Some still do though. Even the preachers!

There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

You can lay truth after truth before his feet.

You can qualify your every position with cold hard irrefutable data.

You can plead and scream and raise veritable hell, but before he will ever listen, he must first become aware of his own dire circumstances.

As long as he views himself as safe and secure, as long as he imagines his chains to be wings, he will see no reason to question the validity of the world around him, and he will certainly never invest himself into changing his own deluded destiny.

THE PROBLEM with seeking the truth is that it can be found. 

When it's found it will speak to the seeker and demand action of him.  These demanded actions are often uncomfortable or difficult.   Most people who discover truth will thus abandon it and go their own way.  They will spend the rest of their lives justifying their lies to themselves and anyone who will listen to them.

Therefore Jesus said, "THIS is the judgment, that light has come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light BECAUSE their deeds were evil."  John 3:19

Therefore these pages are full of long explanations posted by those who have an agenda.  They employ snippets of scripture taken out of context or popular books and videos to justify the lie of their life rather than to adjust their behavior according to God's honest Word.   

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #29 on: Thu Jan 16, 2020 - 09:33:18 »
Choir Loft,  by your own admission on every one of your post’s conclusions, you are the one that is screaming and “hollering”...

Just sayin’...

Offline lea

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Re: The Rapture Algorithm: 7 Signs of the End Times
« Reply #30 on: Thu Jan 16, 2020 - 22:30:34 »
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

You can lay truth after truth before his feet.

You can qualify your every position with cold hard irrefutable data.

You can plead and scream and raise veritable hell, but before he will ever listen, he must first become aware of his own dire circumstances.

As long as he views himself as safe and secure, as long as he imagines his chains to be wings, he will see no reason to question the validity of the world around him, and he will certainly never invest himself into changing his own deluded destiny.

THE PROBLEM with seeking the truth is that it can be found. 

When it's found it will speak to the seeker and demand action of him.  These demanded actions are often uncomfortable or difficult.   Most people who discover truth will thus abandon it and go their own way.  They will spend the rest of their lives justifying their lies to themselves and anyone who will listen to them.

Therefore Jesus said, "THIS is the judgment, that light has come into the world and men loved darkness rather than light BECAUSE their deeds were evil."  John 3:19

Therefore these pages are full of long explanations posted by those who have an agenda.  They employ snippets of scripture taken out of context or popular books and videos to justify the lie of their life rather than to adjust their behavior according to God's honest Word.   

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

I hear that! ::beatingdeadhorse::

 

     
anything