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Offline LaSpino3

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What happened to them?
« on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 10:53:28 »
I would like you to consider the question asked in the context of the three following verses.

Ecclesiastes 3:20, When we die, it is written, “All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.”

Hebrews 9:27, Concerning all those who have died: “And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but after this the judgment.”

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he has done, whether it be good or bad.”

Here are the verses in question:

Matt.27:52-53, “And the graves (of the dead) were opened; and many (meaning numerous) bodies of the SAINTS which slept (the dead) arose (were brought back to life as was the Lord). And (those who had been dead) came out of the graves and AFTER his (Jesus) resurrection (who was raised from the dead) and (they) went (walked) into the holy city (Jerusalem); and appeared (were witnessed by) many.”

My question, what happened to these saints of God? There are three possibilities,

1.   They died again.

2.   They were taken into heaven with the Lord:

3.   They have remained on the earth, having incorruptible resurrected bodies as did the Lord Jesus, and for the past 2000 years they have been doing the Lord’s work in conjunction with the Holy Spirit.

Think about it before you answer, and if possible use scripture to support your answers.
Laspino3


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What happened to them?
« on: Wed May 09, 2018 - 10:53:28 »

Offline the_sign

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #1 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 00:55:36 »
Matt.27:52-53, “And the graves (of the dead) were opened; and many (meaning numerous) bodies of the SAINTS which slept (the dead) arose (were brought back to life as was the Lord). And (those who had been dead) came out of the graves and AFTER his (Jesus) resurrection (who was raised from the dead) and (they) went (walked) into the holy city (Jerusalem); and appeared (were witnessed by) many.”

The gift of the Holy Spirit for this is called bi-location.

Their bodies remained in the opened graves, yet they were seen elsewhere.

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #1 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 00:55:36 »

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #2 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 08:30:32 »
Sign: Hmmmmm, "bi-location."

Never heard of it! I know it's not a word found in any Bible, even the corrupted ones. So I looked in my Britannica Webster dictionary; nope, not there either. 

Synonyms for this Greek word "arose" found in Matthew 27:52 are, to wake, to arouse, to cause to rise up, lift, lifted. As a transitive verb, it expresses action that passes from the agent (God) to the object (those who were dead, but now made alive.) And also used as a middle term of syllogism, which is a term used when two extremes (dead --- alive) are separately compared, and by means of which they are brought together, (the dead made alive again.

This particular Greek word is applied to Jesus being raised; of O.T. saints being raised, those having died under law: and Christians who have died in Christ. There is no evidence that the word is ever applied to unbelievers.

This particular word is also used in the following verses, and used in the following way,

1 Corinthians 15:12, "Now if Christ be preached that He ROSE from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?"

1 Corinthians 15:14, "And if Christ be not RISEN then is our preaching in vain."

1 Corinthians 15:42-43-44, "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is RAISED in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is RAISED in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is RAISED in power. It is sown a natural body; it is RAISED a spiritual body, and there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body"   

1 Corinthians 15:52-53, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be RAISED incorruptible."

Matthew 27:52, "And the graves were opened; and many of the saints (O.T. Jews) which slept AROSE And came out of the graves after His resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."  Thus, to raise the dead;

John 5:21, "For as the Father RAISED up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son (Jesus) quickeneth whom He will."

Bottom line, if I apply what you call bi-location to Jesus, then the Lord's body must have also remain in the grave, and seen elsewhere because its the same Greek word.

So I would have to conclude, Hmmmmm, respectifully, your WRONG!
Laspino3


Offline the_sign

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #3 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 19:22:33 »
Bottom line, if I apply what you call bi-location to Jesus,

That would be wrong for Jesus is the Christ.  However, to impart the gift even to saints who have fallen asleep is only within the scope of "what is impossible for man shall be possible for God".

When Jesus said while in plain view of His disciples that "many have longed to see" what they were beholding, viz., the Son of Man, "which is in Heaven", He established the core basis of what bi-location is.  (I prefer to use a hyphen [to avoid a "bilious" type pronunciation], but bilocation is more common.)

For the first time in history, the infinite God of spirit which Jesus described to the Samaritan woman at the well met in flesh, "The Father and I are one."

Some saints have been known in particular to have the gift (i.e., St. Padre Pio), and much like levitation, it is usually only found associated with mystics.

http://paranormal.wikia.com/wiki/Bilocation

I have seen and answered this same question on more than one occasion.  I find myself pondering miracles.  Lazarus was dead for several days, yet was raised bodily in the flesh.  I question whether it is Scripturally accurate to say that Lazarus died again, and I imagine that perhaps he is still among us; I have thought the same of St. John the Evangelist (Jesus asking Peter, "If it is my will that he remain, what is that to you?").

I find it a necessity to delineate the General Resurrection of the Dead with regard to the Book (prophecy) of Daniel, but there is also the permanently established resurrection with Christ's coming forth from His tomb.
« Last Edit: Fri May 11, 2018 - 05:47:33 by the_sign »

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #3 on: Thu May 10, 2018 - 19:22:33 »

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #4 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 07:39:17 »
Sign, no disrespect, but I haven't a clue what you're talking about.

My guess is, you reject, 1-2 and 3 of my original post, and have added 4, four being this bi-lateral whatever you're tralking about? If yes, don't try to explain it to me, not interested! Is there anyone else that would like to comment on my original tread?

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #4 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 07:39:17 »



Offline the_sign

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #5 on: Fri May 11, 2018 - 16:53:19 »
My guess is, you reject, 1-2 and 3 of my original post,

I haven't, but I've read about and have personal experience with bilocation.

In terms of your question and the choices you presented, I have found them weak.

I know for a fact that a person can be dead and still experience the gift of bilocation.

Offline LaSpino3

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #6 on: Sat May 12, 2018 - 10:21:05 »
Sign, "OK"!

Offline notreligus

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #7 on: Tue May 29, 2018 - 15:33:49 »
1Co 15:20  But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
1Co 15:21  For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead.

I understand this passage to mean that Jesus Christ is the first fruits of the resurrection and He gained victory over death, Spiritual deah..  As such the soul/spirit of believers will go on to be with the Lord.

2Co 5:1  For we know that if the tent that is our earthly home is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2Co 5:2  For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling,
2Co 5:3  if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked.
2Co 5:4  For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened--not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.
2Co 5:5  He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
2Co 5:6  So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord,
2Co 5:7  for we walk by faith, not by sight.
2Co 5:8  Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

When the physical bodies of those ones who were resurrected succumbed to death their spirits/souls went to be with the Lord.   

Offline Episcopius

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #8 on: Wed May 30, 2018 - 11:42:56 »
I think it's #2
They were eventually taken to heaven
Like Christ Himself, they may have appeared on earth for a while, then ascended.
I think they eventually went to heaven, as did the OT saints who were in "Paradise",
the OT Paradise across from hell by an impassable gulf - was emptied when Christ took them to heaven;
this was known as "the harrowing of hell"
why the ones that came out of their graves were different or special
I have no idea.

Offline the_sign

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Re: What happened to them?
« Reply #9 on: Thu Jun 07, 2018 - 09:47:13 »
I think it's #2
They were eventually taken to heaven
Like Christ Himself, they may have appeared on earth for a while, then ascended.
I think they eventually went to heaven, as did the OT saints who were in "Paradise", the OT Paradise across from hell by an impassable gulf - was emptied when Christ took them to heaven; this was known as "the harrowing of hell"
why the ones that came out of their graves were different or special I have no idea.
1.   They died again.

It can't be #1 as "it is allotted that man die once, and then the judgment".

2.   They were taken into heaven with the Lord:

Jesus said while He was dying, "Thou shalt be with me today in Paradise."  He also said, "If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto Me."  And He was lifted up on the first Ascension Thursday.  So #2 is the best answer.

3.   They have remained on the earth, having incorruptible resurrected bodies as did the Lord Jesus, and for the past 2000 years they have been doing the Lord’s work in conjunction with the Holy Spirit.

The problem with #3 is in translation, the original text stating only that tombs were opened and that many saints who had died then appeared, the gift of bilocation being the best explanation.

The fact that those saints did appear at all at that time is much the way when we celebrate the New Year, for example, and we have those funny tongue roll out thingies, hats, and noise makers - our Father was (is) celebrating the return of His Son.

 

     
anything