Author Topic: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times  (Read 2502 times)

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Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #35 on: Mon Aug 16, 2021 - 06:48:58 »
One more thought~ALL the promise to David are to be understood of Christ~per the Jewish apostles of the NT....all the promises to Israel are to be understood of the TRUE ISRAEL of God~the children of God's promises....per Jewish apostles of the NT

There are NO promises to the natural seed of Abraham, who do not show any love for the truth. God's promises are not given to the blood that flows through a person's veins. This is so clear, we should not even have to address this lie from false prophets who go about promising Jews good things to come just before they happen to be of Abraham's natural seed. Why promise Abraham's natural seed hope when he had several sons after Isaac? Are the promises to them as well? The promises are to the seed of Abraham which IS CHRIST and those who are part of his elect body, the children of God's promises. Selah
« Last Edit: Mon Aug 16, 2021 - 06:53:18 by RB »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #36 on: Mon Aug 16, 2021 - 07:43:58 »
That is a big fat negative. Your position and that of the Catholic Church, are opposite extremes of real replacement theology. You both separate that which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came to make one.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Both of your teachings separate that which Christ came to make one. You are the replacement theologists. The remnant of Israel accepted their Messiah Jesus Christ, formed the New covenant church and Israel of God, composed of all truly in Christ Jesus our Lord. All of whom whether Jew or Gentile, are children of Abraham, according to his faith.

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


You declare those circumcised merely of the flesh to be the Israel of God, because they have formed a Jewish state again, in denial of the above truths of scripture. Exalting many of those who to this very day reject Jesus Christ as their Messiah, as the true Israel of God. This is pure unadulterated replacement theology, in direct contradiction to NT teaching and the few verse I have shared concerning the same. Do you not? If not please expound upon how many denying Christ can compose the true Israel of God? Thank you.

Scripture references taken out of context and which are used in an attempt to displace or dilute God's truth are meaningless.  If such scripture references were bullets, you'd be shooting blanks.  They mean nothing because Replacement Theology denies God and hates His people Israel. 

You ask how many who deny Christ can compose true Israel - read Jeremiah 50:20.  Not all Jews reject Christ.  There is a believing remnant who are forgiven.  Gentiles are added to Jews/Israel (Romans 11:23) not the other way around (because gentiles, NOT GOD, reject Jews).  Who is the true vine?  Is it Christ or the pope?  If the pope then where is it written that RCC saves?

Arguments supporting the veracity of Replacement Theology are anti-Semitic. 

While the entire nation of America claims to turn its back on hate language, the church embraces it.  Jews are excluded from all its consideration and dogma.

The RCC has been traditionally opposed to Jews, the Jewish state and anything that smells of Jew including but not limited to Mosaic LAW.   The post-protestant church, which now marches in lock step with Vatican ideology, now embraces most of these same doctrines.   No religion has been guilty of murdering innocent Jews and the saints of Christ more than the RCC (and its vassal protestant religion).   The number of murders tallies in the tens of millions, yet those who continue to uphold the doctrines of hate refuse to acknowledge the context of scripture (the entire Bible, not just bits and pieces of it) as well as the testimony of history itself.

No one can be saved apart from the LAW.

Aberrations of Biblical doctrine began to proliferate with Vatican insinuation of its dogmas over Biblical context.  Ultimately there was little or nothing left of God's intended teachings.  Today both the Bible and the general meaning of the word 'context' are ignored displaced and treated with disdain.   As a result the Ruach ha-Kodesh (Holy Spirit) has abandoned these denominations to their own devices.  The end result of the process is dilution and elimination of anything even closely resembling Godly worship and knowledge.  Churches today specialize in humanistic dogma, sexual aberrations, occult themes in music and literature and a form of works to justify themselves.   God hates it.  (Isaiah 1:14)

The sad situation is that nobody cares. 

Nobody really studies history or the context of the Bible as a whole.  Whenever an encouragement to do so is raised, it is summarily denounced disregarded and minimized. Nobody wants the truth (John 3:19).  Instead they insist upon hearing and reading those things that tickle their ears (2 Tim 4:3).  Instead of godly doctrine they produce Vegas style production numbers on Sunday morning.  Even as they denounce Jewish tradition as acts that do not save, Christians produce their own traditions which don't save either.   These self-righteous bigots look down upon Jews who are the inheritance and beloved of God.  (Malachi 1)

Christianity has become a plastic religion eager to bend and shape itself into any form pleasing to the world - including hatred of Jews and rejection of the Jewish State of Israel.

Don't deny it.  The evidence of this is on display in every community in America.   

America has turned its back upon God and God will NOT bless the nation any more. 

Watch TV news and read your local newspaper.  Do you see blessings there or do you see declining respect for America everywhere?  We've lost ANOTHER war.  Does that mean anything to you?  Do you see peace and safety or murder and violence on all our streets?  Do you see prosperity and hope or do you see financial struggle for every family and a bleak future for our children?  America has turned its back upon God and God's truth.  America is reaping the whirlwind of its own lies.  America has conjured up the devil and she will pay the devil's price.

Can anyone in his right mind declare the church has replaced Jewish Israel?

They cannot because the church has denied God.  It has relegated the Eternal to a form of passive indifference.   They cannot declare the church has replaced Israel unless they justify or deliberately ignore all the murder and lies perpetrated throughout the last two thousand years in the name of the church.  The church has tried to remove excise and delete Jews from its religion and the world, but the Jew remains.  Israel exists and prospers - unlike the church which is in decline everywhere.  If prosperity alone were the benchmark for God's blessings then the State of Israel would stand as a shining light.  The church is nothing more than a smoldering candle wick.

Christianity has become a plastic religion.  All the people of the earth see Christian hypocrisy for what it is - except Christians who've chosen to believe their own lies.

The Truth?

When a man accepts Jesus Christ as his lord and savior he becomes a Jew in God's eyes.(Romans 2:29)   The church is thus removed from the equation entirely. (Rev 18:4)

that's me, hollering from the choir loft... 
« Last Edit: Mon Aug 16, 2021 - 08:50:43 by Choir Loft »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #37 on: Mon Aug 16, 2021 - 14:18:26 »
Just what are you calling doubtful disputations?
Your posts.  Most of them, at least.

Offline DaveW

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #38 on: Tue Aug 17, 2021 - 06:28:34 »
One more thought~ALL the promise to David are to be understood of Christ~per the Jewish apostles of the NT....all the promises to Israel are to be understood of the TRUE ISRAEL of God~the children of God's promises....per Jewish apostles of the NT

There are NO promises to the natural seed of Abraham, who do not show any love for the truth. God's promises are not given to the blood that flows through a person's veins. This is so clear, we should not even have to address this lie from false prophets who go about promising Jews good things to come just before they happen to be of Abraham's natural seed. Why promise Abraham's natural seed hope when he had several sons after Isaac? Are the promises to them as well? The promises are to the seed of Abraham which IS CHRIST and those who are part of his elect body, the children of God's promises. Selah
Red - you GOTTA drop this replacement theory garbage.  It is a pack of lies from the father of lies. 

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #38 on: Tue Aug 17, 2021 - 06:28:34 »
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Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #39 on: Tue Aug 17, 2021 - 07:18:46 »
One more thought~ALL the promise to David are to be understood of Christ~per the Jewish apostles of the NT....all the promises to Israel are to be understood of the TRUE ISRAEL of God~the children of God's promises....per Jewish apostles of the NT

There are NO promises to the natural seed of Abraham, who do not show any love for the truth. God's promises are not given to the blood that flows through a person's veins. This is so clear, we should not even have to address this lie from false prophets who go about promising Jews good things to come just before they happen to be of Abraham's natural seed. Why promise Abraham's natural seed hope when he had several sons after Isaac? Are the promises to them as well? The promises are to the seed of Abraham which IS CHRIST and those who are part of his elect body, the children of God's promises. Selah

You really need to read your Bible - ALL OF IT.

I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.” - God speaking to Abraham Genesis 12:3

There are two promises in this passage.  One is to Israel - the Hebrew children of Abraham.   The second is a blessing to all the earth - ha-Mashiach (Christ).

If the promise to Israel, meaning the REAL people/Jews and the REAL nation,  is false then so too is God's promise to save those who trust and obey Him.

Finally do you not realize that Jewish traditions will NOT save?  Neither will Christian traditions save.   THE PRIMARY Christian tradition is that one become a member of the church.   The Bible nowhere says church membership will save anybody.   

As I wrote earlier, Replacement Theology is a construction of the Catholic church.  According to this barbaric heresy, the church replaces Israel as God's nation and people on the earth.  This is entirely false for two reasons mentioned above.   In the OT it was necessary to become a Jew to be saved.   Now in the NT the church is saying it is necessary to become a church member to be saved.   What's the difference?  None, whatsoever.

Romans 2:29 says one becomes a Jew by faith.  Paul says that gentiles as well as Jews MUST embrace ha-Mashiach to be justified before God.  When they do they are joined to Jesus (Y'shuah) THE KING OF THE JEWS.

The church is nothing more than a spiritual squatter - claiming spiritual ground it has no right to possess. 

It is all about Jesus Christ (Y'shuah ha-Mashiach) and His blood that saves.  It's not about membership in a synagogue or church.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #39 on: Tue Aug 17, 2021 - 07:18:46 »



Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #40 on: Tue Aug 17, 2021 - 14:07:56 »
Red - you GOTTA drop this replacement theory garbage.  It is a pack of lies from the father of lies.
Dave, you call the mystery of Christ (Read Romans 16:25, 26; Ephesians 2:11-3:11) a pack of lies by calling it "replacement theory garbage", in order to seemly give your Jewish fable some support~ does not move me, nor will stop me from declaring the mystery of Christ so help me God. Maybe I'll start a thread on these two doctrines and let us see who is preaching a pack of lies.

I will deal with Choir Loft AFTER the tornado (from Fred) passes by my house the warning just went out. RB
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 17, 2021 - 15:05:56 by RB »

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #41 on: Tue Aug 17, 2021 - 15:35:25 »
Your posts.  Most of them, at least.

I see, kind of a personal thing. So be it.

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #42 on: Tue Aug 17, 2021 - 16:22:56 »
Scripture references taken out of context and which are used in an attempt to displace or dilute God's truth are meaningless.  If such scripture references were bullets, you'd be shooting blanks.  They mean nothing because Replacement Theology denies God and hates His people Israel. 

You ask how many who deny Christ can compose true Israel - read Jeremiah 50:20.  Not all Jews reject Christ.  There is a believing remnant who are forgiven.  Gentiles are added to Jews/Israel (Romans 11:23) not the other way around (because gentiles, NOT GOD, reject Jews).  Who is the true vine?  Is it Christ or the pope?  If the pope then where is it written that RCC saves?

Arguments supporting the veracity of Replacement Theology are anti-Semitic. 

While the entire nation of America claims to turn its back on hate language, the church embraces it.  Jews are excluded from all its consideration and dogma.

The RCC has been traditionally opposed to Jews, the Jewish state and anything that smells of Jew including but not limited to Mosaic LAW.   The post-protestant church, which now marches in lock step with Vatican ideology, now embraces most of these same doctrines.   No religion has been guilty of murdering innocent Jews and the saints of Christ more than the RCC (and its vassal protestant religion).   The number of murders tallies in the tens of millions, yet those who continue to uphold the doctrines of hate refuse to acknowledge the context of scripture (the entire Bible, not just bits and pieces of it) as well as the testimony of history itself.

No one can be saved apart from the LAW.

Aberrations of Biblical doctrine began to proliferate with Vatican insinuation of its dogmas over Biblical context.  Ultimately there was little or nothing left of God's intended teachings.  Today both the Bible and the general meaning of the word 'context' are ignored displaced and treated with disdain.   As a result the Ruach ha-Kodesh (Holy Spirit) has abandoned these denominations to their own devices.  The end result of the process is dilution and elimination of anything even closely resembling Godly worship and knowledge.  Churches today specialize in humanistic dogma, sexual aberrations, occult themes in music and literature and a form of works to justify themselves.   God hates it.  (Isaiah 1:14)

The sad situation is that nobody cares. 

Nobody really studies history or the context of the Bible as a whole.  Whenever an encouragement to do so is raised, it is summarily denounced disregarded and minimized. Nobody wants the truth (John 3:19).  Instead they insist upon hearing and reading those things that tickle their ears (2 Tim 4:3).  Instead of godly doctrine they produce Vegas style production numbers on Sunday morning.  Even as they denounce Jewish tradition as acts that do not save, Christians produce their own traditions which don't save either.   These self-righteous bigots look down upon Jews who are the inheritance and beloved of God.  (Malachi 1)

Christianity has become a plastic religion eager to bend and shape itself into any form pleasing to the world - including hatred of Jews and rejection of the Jewish State of Israel.

Don't deny it.  The evidence of this is on display in every community in America.   

America has turned its back upon God and God will NOT bless the nation any more. 

Watch TV news and read your local newspaper.  Do you see blessings there or do you see declining respect for America everywhere?  We've lost ANOTHER war.  Does that mean anything to you?  Do you see peace and safety or murder and violence on all our streets?  Do you see prosperity and hope or do you see financial struggle for every family and a bleak future for our children?  America has turned its back upon God and God's truth.  America is reaping the whirlwind of its own lies.  America has conjured up the devil and she will pay the devil's price.

Can anyone in his right mind declare the church has replaced Jewish Israel?

They cannot because the church has denied God.  It has relegated the Eternal to a form of passive indifference.   They cannot declare the church has replaced Israel unless they justify or deliberately ignore all the murder and lies perpetrated throughout the last two thousand years in the name of the church.  The church has tried to remove excise and delete Jews from its religion and the world, but the Jew remains.  Israel exists and prospers - unlike the church which is in decline everywhere.  If prosperity alone were the benchmark for God's blessings then the State of Israel would stand as a shining light.  The church is nothing more than a smoldering candle wick.

Christianity has become a plastic religion.  All the people of the earth see Christian hypocrisy for what it is - except Christians who've chosen to believe their own lies.

The Truth?

When a man accepts Jesus Christ as his lord and savior he becomes a Jew in God's eyes.(Romans 2:29)   The church is thus removed from the equation entirely. (Rev 18:4)

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

We actually agree upon quite a bit. We just part ways considering exactly who new covenant Israel is. I do not deny the Israel of God, or God's new covenant church, they are one and the same. Though the world is filled false Jews and "Christians". Israel and Christ's church always have and still do stand. Neither, is a building, or a denomination, or a nation during this new covenant era. This includes what is called the Jewish state today. There is no true Jew or Christian that is not born again of the Spirit, and therefore citizens of God's kingdom upon this earth, which stands in contrast to all others. Not against them, but in contrast to them. The time for a literal kingdom of God on this earth is passed. It will not return again until God Himself in Christ Jesus our Lord returns again to make all things new. Christ's kingdom during this new covenant era simply is not of the world, nor can it be. No literal nation can have all of its citizens born of God in Christ Jesus. Christ's spiritual kingdom of Israel which is Christ's true church on earth alone is filled with only those born of God in Christ Jesus.

Joh 18:33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews? 34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? 35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Your error is in making literal Israel filled with many who still reject Christ as their Messiah, the Israel of God of this new covenant era. Yes there are many Jews in Christ who are part of the body of Christ His church, even in literal Israel, but this can never make it the Israel of God in this new covenant era. Christ's true church was founded by the Messiah of the Jews and His Jewish apostles, which welcomes all of every race and nation into the fold. Just as the Old Testament scriptures predicted. Christ's church and new covenant Israel are one. No one is born of either, but all must be born again of Christ Jesus our Lord to truly be part of either. Christ's testimony is the same to Jew and Gentile in this new covenant, both must be born again if they are to be of the church or Israel of God.

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

It is the same for the Jew as the Gentile. The middle wall of partition is only broken down for those whether Jew or Gentile, who are are born again in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Gal 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. 16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

You will admit of the false body and church of Christ, the devil's counterfeit, but you will not admit of the false Israel of God as well, also the devil's counterfeit. It is not those who accept the truth that the church of Christ and the Israel of God are one in this new covenant era, that present replacement theology. It is those who maintain the wall of separation between them, which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came to tear down. Those who maintain the church has replaced Israel, or those who maintain that Israel and the church are still separate entities and peoples.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

It is one thing to declare someone is taking scripture out of context, it is another to explain such. Please do explain how I have taken the scriptures quoted above or in my prior posts, out of context. Thank you.




« Last Edit: Tue Aug 17, 2021 - 16:43:31 by Amo »

Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #43 on: Wed Aug 18, 2021 - 04:27:30 »
You really need to read your Bible - ALL OF IT.
I have a few times over. Probably while you were still in diapers and messing all over yourself maybe before you were ever born.
Quote from: Choir boy  Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 07:18:46
I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.” - God speaking to Abraham Genesis 12:3
Quote from: THE LORD
Genesis 12:1-3~"Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."
If one like you are doing isolate Genesis 12:1-3, you may convince an unlearn seeker of the truth by using surface sound bites that always lead one down the road of embracing a false position and encouraging false doctrines and hope.

To teach Genesis 12:1-3 is referencing Abraham's natural seed in any way whatsoever is to completely ignore hundreds of other scriptures. No scripture is in a vacuum but must be understood by the thousands of other scriptures addressing the true promises of Genesis 12.

How about the promises of the LAND?
Quote
unto a land that I will shew thee
Quote from: THE LORD
Genesis 13:14-17~"And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered. Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee."
The promised land was NOT the piece of wilderness in the middle east to believe that is to reject the scriptures! When Abraham lifted up his eyes, AS FAR AS HE COULD SEE as HE KEPT WALKING was to be the promised land of the everlasting Covenant~which the Abrahamic covenant was just a small revelation of the one and true EVERLASTING COVENANT with Christ and HIS SEED which included Abraham who is the father of all that followed the SAME SYSTEM of FAITH that he lived by~meaning, HIS FAITH was the evidence that God had truly called him OUT OF this world and promised him a world far superior in every possible imaginable way man could think of.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Hebrews 11:8-13~"By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise (which was a TYPE of the world to come~RB), as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Again...
Quote from: Paul
Romans 4:13-15~"For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, (NOT a piece of God-forsaken land in the middle east-RB) was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:"
So, the land was NOT any parcel of land IN THIS WORLD, and certainly not the middle east, the most God-forsaken land in this world, certainly has very little natural beauty to boast of. The spiritual children of Abraham are the children of God's promises, not limited to his natural seed but includes millions upon millions of Gentiles, which actually was what Abraham WAS before God chose him to be the earthly example of the children of his promises.
Quote from: Paul who was a Jew by nature
Galatians 4:28-30~"Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
Genesis 12:1-3 is NOT promised to the natural seed of Abraham, or to the land in the middle east, but the children of God's promises through and in Christ.
Quote from: Choir boy  Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 07:18:46
If the promise to Israel, meaning the REAL people/Jews and the REAL nation,  is false then so too is God's promise to save those who trust and obey Him.
You need to learn how to interpret your bible it might save you from making such foolish statements. Besides, God's promises of saving his people from sin and condemnation are unconditional~our obedience is the evidence like Abraham that God has INDEED called us out of this world unto a land that we WILL give to us~it is NOT the conditions of securing our inheritance~only Christ's perfect obedience qualify and are means of entering into life eternal.
Quote from: Choir boy  Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 07:18:46
As I wrote earlier, Replacement Theology is a construction of the Catholic church.  According to this barbaric heresy, the church replaces Israel as God's nation and people on the earth. 
The church (called out ones) has always been the true people of God~people like you and others are trying to REPLACE THE CHURCH with a bunch of Christ rejecters and murders! 
Quote from: Paul a JEW by nature
Romans 9:6-8~"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: (the SAME could be said of the church in our day, they are NOT all OF THE CHURCH which are in the church, very few truly are~RB) Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
You are on the wrong side of the fence in this debate with God's word!
Quote from: Choir boy  Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 07:18:46
Romans 2:29 says one becomes a Jew by faith.  Paul says that gentiles as well as Jews MUST embrace ha-Mashiach to be justified before God.
Nowhere in Romans 2:29 does it say what you are reading into the scriptures~one does not become a Jew by faith, one is ELECTED by grace to be the children of God's promises, be they natural Jews or Gentiles~once in the fold, they can see and understand how the promises to Israel and the Jews MUST be understood in a spiritual sense for most Jews and Gnetiles hate Jesus Christ and his gospel.

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #44 on: Wed Aug 18, 2021 - 16:16:38 »
We actually agree upon quite a bit. We just part ways considering exactly who new covenant Israel is. I do not deny the Israel of God, or God's new covenant church, they are one and the same. Though the world is filled false Jews and "Christians". Israel and Christ's church always have and still do stand. Neither, is a building, or a denomination, or a nation during this new covenant era. This includes what is called the Jewish state today. There is no true Jew or Christian that is not born again of the Spirit, and therefore citizens of God's kingdom upon this earth, which stands in contrast to all others. Not against them, but in contrast to them. The time for a literal kingdom of God on this earth is passed. It will not return again until God Himself in Christ Jesus our Lord returns again to make all things new. Christ's kingdom during this new covenant era simply is not of the world, nor can it be. No literal nation can have all of its citizens born of God in Christ Jesus. Christ's spiritual kingdom of Israel which is Christ's true church on earth alone is filled with only those born of God in Christ Jesus.

. . . .

You will admit of the false body and church of Christ, the devil's counterfeit, but you will not admit of the false Israel of God as well, also the devil's counterfeit. It is not those who accept the truth that the church of Christ and the Israel of God are one in this new covenant era, that present replacement theology. It is those who maintain the wall of separation between them, which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came to tear down. Those who maintain the church has replaced Israel, or those who maintain that Israel and the church are still separate entities and peoples.

. . . .

It is one thing to declare someone is taking scripture out of context, it is another to explain such. Please do explain how I have taken the scriptures quoted above or in my prior posts, out of context. Thank you.

Last statement first. I have learned from hard experience NOT to spend precious hours researching the Bible to satisfy the questions of one who has convinced himself of a lie.  I submit that you will accept no contextual explanation from me even if I spent one hundred years doing it.  Your mind, along with most anti-semitic Christians, is made up and cannot be persuaded with facts.   All I can do is write simple statements as clearly as possible. 

Context is one of those things Christians refer to but never apply.  Instead they rely upon snippets of scripture like religious slogans and buzz words for which they know no truth meaning.  Case in point is the almost absolute rejection of the Tanakh - the entire OT.  Every Jew hater I've ever met has also expressed the desire to rip the OT out of the Bible and burn it.  As a result their theology becomes pathetically perverse.

Top of the list on devilish counterfeit religions is the plastic church - RCC being on top of the heap with post protestant denominations following with their noses up the Vatican's tail feathers.  Globally the Christian church is withering on the vine - mostly because it's severed its relationship with the root (Jesus Christ).  Even the Pope has admitted to the apostasy of the western church.  I have no figures for the Orthodox church, but I imagine its not doing much better as it is primarily a function of national politics rather than an independent ideological entity.

Don't write of the post protestant church as though it was anything special.  It isn't.  Most protestant denominations have denied the veracity of the Word of God in national conventions and meetings - including but not limited to the Presbyterian Church.  The rest play games with the world - admitting sexual aberrations as normal, worshipping political partisanship as something akin to god on earth and holding allegiance to the world's most violent aggressive nation as something god would bless.  He doesn't and He won't. The RCC is riddled with corruption as well as the post protestant church.  There is nothing spiritual about it except perhaps its wedding with the occult.  I call it the plastic church because it bends and twists and shapes itself so as to please the world (which really isn't impressed with the gymnastics of its leaders).  The church is not godly by a long shot, yet those who hold with Replacement Theology believe it is.  They side with RCC presentation of itself as god on earth.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth." - Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

First point last - Israel and the church are NOT the same thing.  Like all the rest you use twisty words to convey the notion that some sort of plastic Christianity is honored by God when in fact those who are joined to Christ become JEWS.  The NT is full of references to Jesus as the KING OF THE JEWS and of those who are joined to Him as becoming one of them.   There is NO CHURCH except as the blasphemer of Revelation.  At the same time you use language that disrespects Jews and those who hold to Jewish tradition as somehow in league with the devil.

Let me point out AGAIN that although Jewish tradition won't save NEITHER WILL CHRISTIAN tradition save anybody.  Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, your Halloween witches demons vampires and pumpkins sold by the truckload at your churches won't save anybody.  Neither will anybody be saved by eating bits of bread and sips of juice or wine that have been magically converted by religious incantations.  Christ died once for all.  He doesn't need to be crucified over and over again upon Catholic altars or in sanctimonious protestant services. 

The United States is guilty of passive indifference toward God.  To that end America will be judged.  Indeed we are already under judgment.  C&E Christians aren't going to impress God with their religious tradition either.

Oh no, there is much that is perverse and corrupt in the church.  There is absolutely nothing at all in it or of it that is in any way significantly of Christ.  It has become a joke in the eyes of the world and only those who have pitched their tents on shifting sand refuse to see it.

Replacement Theology is a spiritual political and ethnic aberration in the eyes of God and man.  Only those who are convince they are better than the Jews God has blessed buy the lie.

God has said He will bless those who bless Israel (the fruit of Abraham's body) and curse those who curse them.  Has God lied or has God become senile?  I don't think so.  I do believe plastic Christianity has become the devil's religion on earth.  It has figuratively and literally joined itself to the father of lies thievery and murder and can claim no association with the Kingdom of Heaven at all.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
« Last Edit: Wed Aug 18, 2021 - 16:37:54 by Choir Loft »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #45 on: Wed Aug 18, 2021 - 16:25:55 »
I have a few times over. Probably while you were still in diapers and messing all over yourself maybe before you were ever born. If one like you are doing isolate Genesis 12:1-3, you may convince an unlearn seeker of the truth by using surface sound bites that always lead one down the road of embracing a false position and encouraging false doctrines and hope.

. . .

You are on the wrong side of the fence in this debate with God's word! Nowhere in Romans 2:29 does it say what you are reading into the scriptures~one does not become a Jew by faith, one is ELECTED by grace to be the children of God's promises, be they natural Jews or Gentiles~once in the fold, they can see and understand how the promises to Israel and the Jews MUST be understood in a spiritual sense for most Jews and Gnetiles hate Jesus Christ and his gospel.

Amazing how you make claims for yourself according to your extreme age when you have no idea how old I am.  (2 years older than you are) This is typical of plastic Christians, especially those who justify their own opinions over those of vetted scholars.   

I hold a Master's Degree in theology and church history.  What do you have - a certificate for Sunday School perfect attendance?

Who are the ELECT?  You assume your church membership entitles you to that title, but it doesn't - not in the Bible anyway.

The chosen of God are the physical children of Abraham and the nation of today's State of Israel.  Historic proof of the flag of Israel flying over Jerusalem is obvious even to the enemies of God's people. 

The elect are those who have chosen to accept Christ Jesus and who have become Jews (Romans 2:29) NOT members of an anti-semitic church whose founder hated Jews for most of his adult life. 

Church membership doesn't save anybody.  Hating Jews certainly won't win any awards on Judgment Day.  The few who are chosen are Jews.  The many who are called are given a choice (Joshua 24:15) of life or death.  Nowhere is church membership mentioned anywhere. 

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

« Last Edit: Wed Aug 18, 2021 - 16:32:19 by Choir Loft »

Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #46 on: Thu Aug 19, 2021 - 04:51:24 »
Amazing how you make claims for yourself according to your extreme age when you have no idea how old I am.  (2 years older than you are) This is typical of plastic Christians
Maybe you are, but your writings do not even come close of showing you are an older person, but be that as it may be~if it is so, then concerning you, we must agree with Job...
Quote
Job 32:9~"Great men are not always wise: neither do the aged understand judgment."
You are a living testimony to the truth of Job's words.
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 16:25:55
This is typical of plastic Christians, especially those who justify their own opinions over those of vetted scholars.   
Your posts continually speak down toward Christians and the Christian doctrines of the NT which are the doctrines of Jesus Christ if taught properly~ Wonder why you desire Moses over Christ? A vetted scholars is to me, a misnomer for WHO is doing the search to determine who is truly a biblical scholar? Jesus would have never passed that test among the Pharisees, or even your test, so truly, that matters very little if any.
Quote
John 7:15,16~"And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned? Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me."
A wise man will judge those that teach scriptures by THEIR DOCTRINE and their ability to articulate the same using the word of God, not by what is attached to his name.
Quote from:  Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 16:25:55
I hold a Master's Degree in theology and church history.  What do you have - a certificate for Sunday School perfect attendance?
Neither.
Quote from:  Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 16:25:55
Who are the ELECT?  You assume your church membership entitles you to that title, but it doesn't - not in the Bible anyway.
First, let me say this and be very clear on this point: I DO NOT believe in church membership~never have, never will. So, your strawman argument concerning church membership means you are barking up the wrong tree and your perception of my many posts is seriously lacking in knowing what I teach and stand for~and what many sincere Christians believe and teach.
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 16:25:55
Who are the ELECT? The chosen of God are the physical children of Abraham and the nation of today's State of Israel.  Historic proof of the flag of Israel flying over Jerusalem is obvious even to the enemies of God's people. /size]
Sir, you need to check your pants, you are so full of beans, I can smell you miles away! Without question, you are void of spiritual truth on this subject concerning the physical children of Abraham being the very elect of God, nothing could be farther from the truth of God's word. It is so clear from God's testimony that the children of His promises are the very elect.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Romans 9:6-8~"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
You do not determine who are God's children by blood, and certainly not by a flag flying over their country~the evidence is in THEIR LOVE FOR JESUS CHRIST~this would almost 100% leave the Jews out as the very elect~not totally, we know, but almost completely IN OUR DAY, under the NT~just as we were in the OT when the election of grace ran THROUGH the physical seed of Abraham much more than through the Gentiles, even though only a few of them in comparison to the whole truly love God and fear him, just as it so among the Gentiles now.
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 16:25:55
NOT members of an anti-semitic church whose founder hated Jews for most of his adult life.
I was not there and cannot speak for Martin Luther (assuming that is whom you are speaking of)~but will say this, JUST BECAUSE Christians refuse to give into the lie that God's true chosen people are the physical children of Abraham, DOES NOT mean we hate them, far from that, it just means that we refuse to give the children of God's promises bread to the dogs, or those  (Jews or Gentiles) who show no love for the truth at the present time. If you and others desire to take that position and stamp Anti Semitic on an individual, then you are being very deceitful in doing so.
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 16:25:55
The few who are chosen are Jews.
Prove your position with scriptures~which you will never be able to do so. We now have a NEW TESTAMENT just in case you do not know~read it and learn from Jewish apostles of Jesus Christ~you just might learn something that has been hidden from your eyes from believing in Jewish fables.
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 19, 2021 - 04:56:48 by RB »

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #47 on: Thu Aug 19, 2021 - 11:46:30 »
Last statement first. I have learned from hard experience NOT to spend precious hours researching the Bible to satisfy the questions of one who has convinced himself of a lie.  I submit that you will accept no contextual explanation from me even if I spent one hundred years doing it.  Your mind, along with most anti-semitic Christians, is made up and cannot be persuaded with facts.   All I can do is write simple statements as clearly as possible. 

Context is one of those things Christians refer to but never apply.  Instead they rely upon snippets of scripture like religious slogans and buzz words for which they know no truth meaning.  Case in point is the almost absolute rejection of the Tanakh - the entire OT.  Every Jew hater I've ever met has also expressed the desire to rip the OT out of the Bible and burn it.  As a result their theology becomes pathetically perverse.

Top of the list on devilish counterfeit religions is the plastic church - RCC being on top of the heap with post protestant denominations following with their noses up the Vatican's tail feathers.  Globally the Christian church is withering on the vine - mostly because it's severed its relationship with the root (Jesus Christ).  Even the Pope has admitted to the apostasy of the western church.  I have no figures for the Orthodox church, but I imagine its not doing much better as it is primarily a function of national politics rather than an independent ideological entity.

Don't write of the post protestant church as though it was anything special.  It isn't.  Most protestant denominations have denied the veracity of the Word of God in national conventions and meetings - including but not limited to the Presbyterian Church.  The rest play games with the world - admitting sexual aberrations as normal, worshipping political partisanship as something akin to god on earth and holding allegiance to the world's most violent aggressive nation as something god would bless.  He doesn't and He won't. The RCC is riddled with corruption as well as the post protestant church.  There is nothing spiritual about it except perhaps its wedding with the occult.  I call it the plastic church because it bends and twists and shapes itself so as to please the world (which really isn't impressed with the gymnastics of its leaders).  The church is not godly by a long shot, yet those who hold with Replacement Theology believe it is.  They side with RCC presentation of itself as god on earth.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth." - Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

First point last - Israel and the church are NOT the same thing.  Like all the rest you use twisty words to convey the notion that some sort of plastic Christianity is honored by God when in fact those who are joined to Christ become JEWS.  The NT is full of references to Jesus as the KING OF THE JEWS and of those who are joined to Him as becoming one of them.   There is NO CHURCH except as the blasphemer of Revelation.  At the same time you use language that disrespects Jews and those who hold to Jewish tradition as somehow in league with the devil.

Let me point out AGAIN that although Jewish tradition won't save NEITHER WILL CHRISTIAN tradition save anybody.  Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, your Halloween witches demons vampires and pumpkins sold by the truckload at your churches won't save anybody.  Neither will anybody be saved by eating bits of bread and sips of juice or wine that have been magically converted by religious incantations.  Christ died once for all.  He doesn't need to be crucified over and over again upon Catholic altars or in sanctimonious protestant services. 

The United States is guilty of passive indifference toward God.  To that end America will be judged.  Indeed we are already under judgment.  C&E Christians aren't going to impress God with their religious tradition either.

Oh no, there is much that is perverse and corrupt in the church.  There is absolutely nothing at all in it or of it that is in any way significantly of Christ.  It has become a joke in the eyes of the world and only those who have pitched their tents on shifting sand refuse to see it.

Replacement Theology is a spiritual political and ethnic aberration in the eyes of God and man.  Only those who are convince they are better than the Jews God has blessed buy the lie.

God has said He will bless those who bless Israel (the fruit of Abraham's body) and curse those who curse them.  Has God lied or has God become senile?  I don't think so.  I do believe plastic Christianity has become the devil's religion on earth.  It has figuratively and literally joined itself to the father of lies thievery and murder and can claim no association with the Kingdom of Heaven at all.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

You have many words and thoughts to share, and you do so well. Many can do the same, and we all have much to share on these boards I suppose. Short of examining and or expounding upon scripture though, our words are just like us, dust. Here today, gone tomorrow, they will perish along with us. You might want to try and avail yourself of the eternal power of God's word a little more often, and place faith in their effect over and above your own. You are convinced that you cannot convince me, and you are correct. Unless you convince me from scripture, you most certainly are waisting your time. You will neither address the scriptures I have provided, or explain their proper relation to those you mention in defense of your own views. So be it.

No one is cursing Israel but within your own mind. Even the gospel is to the Jew first, from among whom our Lord chose to bring forth the Holy One of Israel unto salvation for all. Nevertheless, neither Jew or Gentile who refuse His salvation, or treat it with indifference or apathy will be saved, or can ever be called the Israel of God. This includes the many Jews of literal Israel of today, who still reject their Messiah Jesus Christ. This is unadulterated biblical truth. Not me or anyone else cursing the Jews.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 

Those Jews who remain in unbelief are not of the Israel of God, and never can be, just as the rest of us.

You are correct concerning the Protestant slide back to Romanism, but you are dead wrong about the Protestant movement which was out and away from her according to their increasing understanding of the Holy scriptures. This was a movement inspired by God, and adherence to increased understanding of His Holy word. It should be no surprise that new covenant Israel goes back and forth continually between apostasy and reformation, just as Israel of old did over and over again. So it will be, until Christ returns and establishes literal Israel and the New Jerusalem in the new heaven and earth.
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 19, 2021 - 11:56:02 by Amo »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #48 on: Sat Aug 21, 2021 - 07:47:24 »
...

No one is cursing Israel but within your own mind. Even the gospel is to the Jew first, from among whom our Lord chose to bring forth the Holy One of Israel unto salvation for all. Nevertheless, neither Jew or Gentile who refuse His salvation, or treat it with indifference or apathy will be saved, or can ever be called the Israel of God. This includes the many Jews of literal Israel of today, who still reject their Messiah Jesus Christ. This is unadulterated biblical truth. Not me or anyone else cursing the Jews.

.....

You are correct concerning the Protestant slide back to Romanism, but you are dead wrong about the Protestant movement which was out and away from her according to their increasing understanding of the Holy scriptures. This was a movement inspired by God, and adherence to increased understanding of His Holy word. It should be no surprise that new covenant Israel goes back and forth continually between apostasy and reformation, just as Israel of old did over and over again. So it will be, until Christ returns and establishes literal Israel and the New Jerusalem in the new heaven and earth.

So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. - Romans 11:5

Do a word study on 'remnant'. 

A spiritual principle of the Kingdom of Heaven is taught therein that God preserves a REMNANT of believing JEWS from among the many who SIN and turn away.  This principle is reiterated often throughout the Tanakh (OT) and repeated again in the epistles.  Read what the Word says and cease reading into it.  Reading dogma into scripture has been the bane of RCC and the post-protestant church for centuries.

Replacement Theology/Supersessionism dogma didn't have that name when it was originally inserted into RCC teaching, but it has come to have that label since it was embraced by the post-protestant church.  It is based upon hatred of Jews, which the church has murdered and ostracized since the earliest days of its existence.  Its been estimated that about 33% of Jews accepted Y'shuah (Jesus) as their ha-Mashiach (Annointed One/Christ) when the gospel was first preached.  Those numbers were depleted severely when gentiles were invited into the fellowship.  Eventually, according to historic record, they were banished altogether - unless they became members of the RCC. 

Does church membership save anyone?  It does if you're a Catholic.  It does if you listen to the rhetoric of certain post-protestant churches.   It does if you insist that Jews MUST join a Christian church to be saved.  Jewish tradition doesn't save anybody, but NEITHER DOES Christian tradition.   It is a matter of the heart and soul between a person and God.  It is a matter of the LAW, which Christians reject out of hand without even knowing what it means.  Neither do they care to learn.....  To blatantly accuse Jews of damnation because they attend synagogue instead of church services is a Nazi lie. THAT is the truth! 

Today the lie that all Jews are damned to hell and that they all reject Y'shuah is commonly accepted as truth.   You repeat that position in your posts - constantly.  Of such lies was the holocaust born and justified.  THAT, sir, is historic record.  THAT, sir, is ideological fact in most churches.   The joke is that most Christians buy into it and don't even think about the ramifications of what they believe.   This is one reason I label Christians as members of a plastic religion.  It blows with the popular wind, more so recently than previously but it changes nonetheless.

I didn't invent the term post-protestant. 

It's been coined by theologians to describe the slide into Catholicism by protestants who adopt the religious views of the Vatican.  Unfortunately it became an obsolete term almost as soon as it was regularly employed in white papers, magazine articles and by YouTube talking heads.  The word plastic is more appropriate.  The church today is racing headlong to embrace worldly points of view.  At the same time it's turning its back upon Biblical principles (clarified by Reformation theologians).   

You cite "increased understanding"? 

I submit to you that there is no understanding on your part of that which you defend.  Nobody in the church understands anything.  Church members are concerned ONLY with reciting scripture like religious slogans or buzz words and do not even understand the meaning of the words they parrot.  I've witnessed these same parrots lose their ability to speak when an atheist asks why Jesus had to die on the cross.  This ought to be Religion 101, but they don't know how to answer the question.  Slogans and buzz words are all they understand.  The ironic thing is that Jews DID THE EXACT SAME THING when Jesus walked among them.  Read the Bible.

What church do you attend? 

Go to the parking lot during Sunday services and count the number of cars.   On Wednesday night, the typical evening for Bible study, you will count far fewer cars.  People don't care to waste their time on Middle School level religious teaching they've heard a hundred times before.  Nothing new is being taught in our churches.  PEOPLE AREN'T EVEN TAUGHT HOW TO "STUDY" THE BIBLE.   Who knows what a 'word study' is or how to do it?  Who knows the purpose of a Bible dictionary or how to use it?  Who knows what an interpretive textbook is or how to balance its writing with their own perceptions of scripture?  NOBODY.  And they don't care to know either.   Do you contest this assessment?   It gets worse, sir.

Occult terms and music are replacing traditional words and hymns. 

Certain 'popular' Christians groups regularly employ satanic imagery in their concerts, yet nobody raises objection.  I've tried to do so on these forums and have been summarily banned by moderators who uphold the principles of the kingdom of satan.  I cannot even name these groups without being censored.  The tendency is insidious and hardly noticed by those who attend regularly, but it's there.  Sexual aberrations, forbidden from one end of the Bible to the other, are embraced even as members of the plastic church preach and teach the entire OT ought to be dismembered from the Bible.  The list goes on, but those specific points are sufficient to provide clear and present evidence of the current state of the church.   It is Ichabod (1 sam 4:21) - the Holy Spirit (Ruach ha-Kodesh) has departed from it.  It has departed because church leaders told it to hit the road.

I've read the Qur'an from end to end and studied somewhat of its ideology.  Islamic terms and doctrine is creeping into our churches too.  I recently attended a Southern Baptist worship service where a substitute preacher delivered the sermon.  His references were laced with Muslim terms and doctrine, yet the ignorant Biblically illiterate Christians in attendance simply bobbed their heads in agreement and said 'amen'.  They didn't know what they were agreeing to.  Stupid is as stupid does and Christians today are redefining the term plastic.

Your unadulterated Biblical truths are stained with a skewed view of historic and current evidence. 

Not all Jews reject ha-Mashiach.  God NEVER abandoned His people Israel and has preserved and blessed a remnant.  The church as we once knew it is dead already. (Luke 21:24)  Take a walk through your memory of years gone by.  If you're honest with yourself and God you'll admit it's changed dramatically. That which remains is withering even as we discuss its failings.  (1 Peter 4:17)  Look to see it no more, for in the time to come it will become less and less.  Indeed it is time to abandon the sinking ship.  (Revelation 18:4)

Are we thinking yet?  Are we continuing to hold with the anti-Semitic hatred of Jews perpetrated by modern Christian ideology?  We do so at extreme risk, for GOD LOVES JEWS.   I do NOT refer here to some sort of metaphysical aberration of RCC doctrine.  I refer to actual real physical people as well as the actual real sovereign State of Israel.  Jews are the apple of God's eye.  In ancient terms the apple of one's eye would be defined by today's medical terms as the pupil of the eye - the absolute center of focus of the eye.  Thus Jews are the absolute central focus of God's eye - of prophecy, of worship, of salvation itself.   To denigrate Jews is to offend the Kingdom of God for it is composed of Jews and gentile believers who have become Jews in the eye of God (Romans 2:29).

America too believes these doctrinal aberrations of the church.

Jews everywhere in this country are in fear for their religion and their personal safety.  They've been attacked from the Atlantic to the Pacific.  Do you deny it?  At the heart of the matter is church ideology, which teaches the Jew is on thin ice with God.  I'm here to state it is the church, not Jews who are standing on sinking sand.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

« Last Edit: Sat Aug 21, 2021 - 08:20:37 by Choir Loft »

Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #49 on: Sat Aug 21, 2021 - 14:26:25 »
Jews everywhere in this country are in fear for their religion and their personal safety.  They've been attacked from the Atlantic to the Pacific.  Do you deny it?  At the heart of the matter is church ideology, which teaches the Jew is on thin ice with God.  I'm here to state it is the church, not Jews who are standing on sinking sand.
You are an NT Church hater~to me that would tell me you are a Jew by nature or at least with your false religious beliefs that are heavily into in Jewish fables.
Quote
Philippians 3:1-9~"Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.  Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"
I'll let Amo have you, since you directed this to him.

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #50 on: Sat Aug 21, 2021 - 18:50:09 »
So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. - Romans 11:5

Do a word study on 'remnant'. 

A spiritual principle of the Kingdom of Heaven is taught therein that God preserves a REMNANT of believing JEWS from among the many who SIN and turn away.  This principle is reiterated often throughout the Tanakh (OT) and repeated again in the epistles.  Read what the Word says and cease reading into it.  Reading dogma into scripture has been the bane of RCC and the post-protestant church for centuries.

Replacement Theology/Supersessionism dogma didn't have that name when it was originally inserted into RCC teaching, but it has come to have that label since it was embraced by the post-protestant church.  It is based upon hatred of Jews, which the church has murdered and ostracized since the earliest days of its existence.  Its been estimated that about 33% of Jews accepted Y'shuah (Jesus) as their ha-Mashiach (Annointed One/Christ) when the gospel was first preached.  Those numbers were depleted severely when gentiles were invited into the fellowship.  Eventually, according to historic record, they were banished altogether - unless they became members of the RCC. 

Does church membership save anyone?  It does if you're a Catholic.  It does if you listen to the rhetoric of certain post-protestant churches.   It does if you insist that Jews MUST join a Christian church to be saved.  Jewish tradition doesn't save anybody, but NEITHER DOES Christian tradition.   It is a matter of the heart and soul between a person and God.  It is a matter of the LAW, which Christians reject out of hand without even knowing what it means.  Neither do they care to learn.....  To blatantly accuse Jews of damnation because they attend synagogue instead of church services is a Nazi lie. THAT is the truth! 

Today the lie that all Jews are damned to hell and that they all reject Y'shuah is commonly accepted as truth.   You repeat that position in your posts - constantly.  Of such lies was the holocaust born and justified.  THAT, sir, is historic record.  THAT, sir, is ideological fact in most churches.   The joke is that most Christians buy into it and don't even think about the ramifications of what they believe.   This is one reason I label Christians as members of a plastic religion.  It blows with the popular wind, more so recently than previously but it changes nonetheless.

I didn't invent the term post-protestant. 

It's been coined by theologians to describe the slide into Catholicism by protestants who adopt the religious views of the Vatican.  Unfortunately it became an obsolete term almost as soon as it was regularly employed in white papers, magazine articles and by YouTube talking heads.  The word plastic is more appropriate.  The church today is racing headlong to embrace worldly points of view.  At the same time it's turning its back upon Biblical principles (clarified by Reformation theologians).   

You cite "increased understanding"? 

I submit to you that there is no understanding on your part of that which you defend.  Nobody in the church understands anything.  Church members are concerned ONLY with reciting scripture like religious slogans or buzz words and do not even understand the meaning of the words they parrot.  I've witnessed these same parrots lose their ability to speak when an atheist asks why Jesus had to die on the cross.  This ought to be Religion 101, but they don't know how to answer the question.  Slogans and buzz words are all they understand.  The ironic thing is that Jews DID THE EXACT SAME THING when Jesus walked among them.  Read the Bible.

What church do you attend? 

Go to the parking lot during Sunday services and count the number of cars.   On Wednesday night, the typical evening for Bible study, you will count far fewer cars.  People don't care to waste their time on Middle School level religious teaching they've heard a hundred times before.  Nothing new is being taught in our churches.  PEOPLE AREN'T EVEN TAUGHT HOW TO "STUDY" THE BIBLE.   Who knows what a 'word study' is or how to do it?  Who knows the purpose of a Bible dictionary or how to use it?  Who knows what an interpretive textbook is or how to balance its writing with their own perceptions of scripture?  NOBODY.  And they don't care to know either.   Do you contest this assessment?   It gets worse, sir.

Occult terms and music are replacing traditional words and hymns. 

Certain 'popular' Christians groups regularly employ satanic imagery in their concerts, yet nobody raises objection.  I've tried to do so on these forums and have been summarily banned by moderators who uphold the principles of the kingdom of satan.  I cannot even name these groups without being censored.  The tendency is insidious and hardly noticed by those who attend regularly, but it's there.  Sexual aberrations, forbidden from one end of the Bible to the other, are embraced even as members of the plastic church preach and teach the entire OT ought to be dismembered from the Bible.  The list goes on, but those specific points are sufficient to provide clear and present evidence of the current state of the church.   It is Ichabod (1 sam 4:21) - the Holy Spirit (Ruach ha-Kodesh) has departed from it.  It has departed because church leaders told it to hit the road.

I've read the Qur'an from end to end and studied somewhat of its ideology.  Islamic terms and doctrine is creeping into our churches too.  I recently attended a Southern Baptist worship service where a substitute preacher delivered the sermon.  His references were laced with Muslim terms and doctrine, yet the ignorant Biblically illiterate Christians in attendance simply bobbed their heads in agreement and said 'amen'.  They didn't know what they were agreeing to.  Stupid is as stupid does and Christians today are redefining the term plastic.

Your unadulterated Biblical truths are stained with a skewed view of historic and current evidence. 

Not all Jews reject ha-Mashiach.  God NEVER abandoned His people Israel and has preserved and blessed a remnant.  The church as we once knew it is dead already. (Luke 21:24)  Take a walk through your memory of years gone by.  If you're honest with yourself and God you'll admit it's changed dramatically. That which remains is withering even as we discuss its failings.  (1 Peter 4:17)  Look to see it no more, for in the time to come it will become less and less.  Indeed it is time to abandon the sinking ship.  (Revelation 18:4)

Are we thinking yet?  Are we continuing to hold with the anti-Semitic hatred of Jews perpetrated by modern Christian ideology?  We do so at extreme risk, for GOD LOVES JEWS.   I do NOT refer here to some sort of metaphysical aberration of RCC doctrine.  I refer to actual real physical people as well as the actual real sovereign State of Israel.  Jews are the apple of God's eye.  In ancient terms the apple of one's eye would be defined by today's medical terms as the pupil of the eye - the absolute center of focus of the eye.  Thus Jews are the absolute central focus of God's eye - of prophecy, of worship, of salvation itself.   To denigrate Jews is to offend the Kingdom of God for it is composed of Jews and gentile believers who have become Jews in the eye of God (Romans 2:29).

America too believes these doctrinal aberrations of the church.

Jews everywhere in this country are in fear for their religion and their personal safety.  They've been attacked from the Atlantic to the Pacific.  Do you deny it?  At the heart of the matter is church ideology, which teaches the Jew is on thin ice with God.  I'm here to state it is the church, not Jews who are standing on sinking sand.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

You apparently are not listening to what I am saying, and attributing some absolute crap I never stated or wrote to me. These things exist only in your own mind though, certainly not mine. I am well aware of the abuse suffered by the Jews at the hands of the Catholic church, which I myself have addressed and documented on these boards before, and others throughout history as well. Nevertheless, such does not prove authenticity or correctness of your beliefs. If such were the case, then Christianity would be far ahead of the Jews in this silly competition you seem intent upon, between Christianity and the Israel of God which you imagine. It is estimated that between 50 to 125 million Jews and Christians died at the hands of or inspiration of the Church of Rome, over a period of a little more than a thousand years.  The vast majority of them were professed Christians, not Jews. Though many millions were Jews. Both Christians and Jews continue to be persecuted around the world today. None of which proves either's authenticity or correctness, as many others throughout history have been persecuted and killed as well.

Nor should it be forgotten, that Jews persecuted other Jews and Gentiles in Christ, first when they had the power to do so. Yet we understand, that such were not true Jews, but rather those who rejected our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Nevertheless, you apparently will not allow of this toward authentic Christians as well, none of whom ever persecuted or killed anyone let alone in the name of Jesus Christ. It was the persecution of Jews and Gentiles by the Jews who rejected Him themselves, which no doubt necessitated a different name for those in Christ who became known as Christians.

Act 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only. 20 And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus. 21 And the hand of the Lord was with them: and a great number believed, and turned unto the Lord. 22 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch. 23 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. 24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord. 25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: 26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Yes, it was the persecution executed by the Jews who rejected Christ themsleves, which necessitated a Different name for those Jews and Gentiles who accepted our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah. You are keen to come down hard on apostate "Christianity" and rightly so, but it seems you are not as willing to look apostate Judaism in the face and identify it as such as well, admitting of it and its place in all of this apostasy as well. So be it. I leave with with your deception, and chip you have placed upon your shoulder toward any who will see that there is plenty of blame to go around concerning both Jew and Gentile when it comes to apostasy.

Mat 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. 7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: 23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; 24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. 25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. 26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

If you think you are going to win over Christians by telling them they must call themselves Jews, you are no better than the Christians who think they might win over Jews by telling them they must call themselves Christians.

1 Cor 7:17 But as God has distributed to each one, as the Lord has called each one, so let him walk. And so I [a]ordain in all the churches. 18 Was anyone called while circumcised? Let him not become uncircumcised. Was anyone called while uncircumcised? Let him not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 20 Let each one remain in the same calling in which he was called.

Rom 4:11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 12 And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, which he had being yet uncircumcised.

My advice and question to you remains the same though, as to all others, why will you continue to separate that which God has joined together?

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Shalom
« Last Edit: Sat Aug 21, 2021 - 18:56:26 by Amo »

Offline Saber

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #51 on: Tue Aug 24, 2021 - 05:45:37 »
Sorry to say I received several time outs by our Lord and God since I last posted.  Cardiac Arrest, which I am all to familiar with, yet our Lord and God does know just how to get my personal and exclusive attention.  Never nothing simple but most profound, as I usually go forth as with blinders on, not really caring about details.  Unfolding world events I was told to keep secret, which is easy to do, just say nothing.  Yet again, as in the here and now of present world affairs, things are not only heating up, but time is running short as well.  So short I need not care about what I say, as it has already been foretold by our Lord and God's very own words of bible prophecy by way of the book of Daniel and 2 Ezra. 

Hard to understand the symbolic terms used throughout bible prophecy, unless, our Lord and God's most Holy Spirit spells things out most clearly in present day terms.  Beyond all doubt, I am not the only one who has been given insight into present day world affairs.  Just do a quick search of prophecy forums and you will find no end of those telling the latest they have received from our Lord and God about his personal judgments coming forth.

Giving all praise honor and glory to my Lord and God for being called into his personal service.  Things have been kept most secret by those personally involved, various government officials, yet knowing all was related to bible prophecy.  Just where is the law of our Lord and God to keep the right and proper understanding of bible prophecy most secret?  It just doesn't exist!  Yet again, those of false teaching and doctrinal understanding do not want the truth to be told.  Just who wants to explain all the lies being brought forth?  Even at the total loss and destruction of the USA by way of the wrath of our Lord and God coming forth in judgment.  Just where did this all begin?

Time has allowed all to go around in a full circle.  The events of 911 were blamed on terrorist in Afghanistan, was it not?  The War on Terror was launched swiftly against these people who had nothing to do with 911.  Totally false and misleading was any an all information about the events of 911, as it was planned by those currently in offices of power to bring it all about, THEMSELVES!  Nothing is beyond knowing of and by our Lord and God.  In spite of our Lord and God's personal warning, all was carried out as preplanned.

Now, and I personally mean right here and now, expect the full wrath of our Lord and God in judgment upon America to pour forth right where it all started.  Afghanistan!  Terror by way of the Beast and False Prophet rising up to extract the wrath of Satan upon one an all who had any part in the affairs of and since 911.  America leading the way will pay the highest price.  Satan and his minions know no grace, mercy and forgiveness, so expect far more than our Lord and God would have done in righteous judgment.

Bible prophecy spells this all out most plainly, one will reap what they have sowed.  Is it not now already happening to those left behind?  The hour of testing and trails has most fully begun.



 


Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #52 on: Tue Aug 24, 2021 - 07:15:09 »
It is interesting that you write with a two-faced agenda. 

On the one hand you admit with greater documentation than I presented - that the church DID persecute Jews.  It has been my impression and persuasion that the church persecuted "the saints", which Revelation mentions .  History declares gentiles as well as Jews were persecuted.  That number in my recollection was between fifty and sixty millions of people.  You quote the number as approximately one hundred twenty-five million.  That's an interesting figure, something not to be ignored. 

On the other hand, you falsely claim Jews did the same to gentiles without quoting any numbers or circumstances.  Interestingly you provide NO documentation to certify that particular assertion.  Part of the history of church discrimination against Jews was to claim Jewish persecution of gentiles.  This is not part of the Jewish faith or any mitzvah, but it was indeed Vatican policy at one time.  Indeed to this day the Vatican's position on religion is that its leader, the Pope, IS GOD.  "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

I am not attempting to Judaize anyone.

I've stated over and over again that Jewish traditions DO NOT save anyone, but neither do Christian traditions.  This is a fact oddly overlooked in your posts.  Does Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, or Halloween ghosts goblins vampire and pumpkins sold by the truckload in front of our churches save anyone?  C&E Christians think their rare appearances in holiday worship services will stamp their passport to heaven, but it won't.  Christian tradition doesn't save anyone, yet you will not admit to this heresy without denigrating Jews in the process. 

I do quote scripture and the context in which it is written. 

It is no fault of mine that most Christians refuse good education and references with regard to learning about their religion.  Those that join themselves to Christ submit to Him as their lord savior and King.  Jesus, as clearly taught in the gospels, is the King of the Jews.  Hence those who swear their allegiance to Him become Jews as well.  It is so stated by Paul in Romans 2:29.  Denial of this spiritual principle is more than dogma it is treachery against the King who offered Himself as a sacrifice for SINNERS.  Millions have sworn their allegiance to the Pope of the RCC.  When they do so they declare the Pope is their god, not Christ.  Pope would be their spiritual head, not Christ.  That to which one swears allegiance is that which is one's lord including but not limited to the flag of the government of the United States.(*)

The Bible nowhere certifies that blaspheme is allowed by God, yet Christians consistently behave as though it is.   Believing the church has replaced Israel in the eyes of God is a blasphemous SIN.  Its also a bare faced lie.

Attacking Jews is becoming the popular sport these days.  Let the reader beware lest he or she become caught up in it for God blesses those who bless Israel and curses those who curse it. (Genesis 12:3) 

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) The Pledge of Allegiance as recited in America is actually an oath of loyalty to the government, not the country - BIG difference....  "to the flag and to the republic for which it stands......"
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 24, 2021 - 07:45:30 by Choir Loft »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #53 on: Tue Aug 24, 2021 - 07:35:58 »
Sorry to say I received several time outs by our Lord and God since I last posted.  Cardiac Arrest, which I am all to familiar with, yet our Lord and God does know just how to get my personal and exclusive attention.  Never nothing simple but most profound, as I usually go forth as with blinders on, not really caring about details.  Unfolding world events I was told to keep secret, which is easy to do, just say nothing.  Yet again, as in the here and now of present world affairs, things are not only heating up, but time is running short as well.  So short I need not care about what I say, as it has already been foretold by our Lord and God's very own words of bible prophecy by way of the book of Daniel and 2 Ezra. 

Hard to understand the symbolic terms used throughout bible prophecy, unless, our Lord and God's most Holy Spirit spells things out most clearly in present day terms.  Beyond all doubt, I am not the only one who has been given insight into present day world affairs.  Just do a quick search of prophecy forums and you will find no end of those telling the latest they have received from our Lord and God about his personal judgments coming forth.

Giving all praise honor and glory to my Lord and God for being called into his personal service.  Things have been kept most secret by those personally involved, various government officials, yet knowing all was related to bible prophecy.  Just where is the law of our Lord and God to keep the right and proper understanding of bible prophecy most secret?  It just doesn't exist!  Yet again, those of false teaching and doctrinal understanding do not want the truth to be told.  Just who wants to explain all the lies being brought forth?  Even at the total loss and destruction of the USA by way of the wrath of our Lord and God coming forth in judgment.  Just where did this all begin?

Time has allowed all to go around in a full circle.  The events of 911 were blamed on terrorist in Afghanistan, was it not?  The War on Terror was launched swiftly against these people who had nothing to do with 911.  Totally false and misleading was any an all information about the events of 911, as it was planned by those currently in offices of power to bring it all about, THEMSELVES!  Nothing is beyond knowing of and by our Lord and God.  In spite of our Lord and God's personal warning, all was carried out as preplanned.

Now, and I personally mean right here and now, expect the full wrath of our Lord and God in judgment upon America to pour forth right where it all started.  Afghanistan!  Terror by way of the Beast and False Prophet rising up to extract the wrath of Satan upon one an all who had any part in the affairs of and since 911.  America leading the way will pay the highest price.  Satan and his minions know no grace, mercy and forgiveness, so expect far more than our Lord and God would have done in righteous judgment.

Bible prophecy spells this all out most plainly, one will reap what they have sowed.  Is it not now already happening to those left behind?  The hour of testing and trails has most fully begun.

You seem to be very sincere in your posts, but I submit its possible to be sincerely wrong.

Your basic premise is gnostic - a long time heresy of the Christian church. 

That particular form of gnosticism you claim as your own is secret knowledge - knowledge you say you've kept secret.The second problem I have with many people today is that they claim to be taught exclusively of the Holy Spirit.  It is a basic axiom of education that nobody learns by osmosis, yet Christians of all denominations seem to think they've got a lock on some sort of personal degree program from the Kingdom of Heaven.   They don't, unless of course they submit themselves to formal education by certified instructors using approved textbooks.

Sorry about the rant.   It's directed more at the audience here than at you.  Most of your political jargon I agree with.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

The SINs of America are many.  In times past it was the church that acted as a moral brake upon the excesses of our country.  Today the church has become plastic - has adapted itself and approved of the ways of the world and society around us.  As a result America has lost its conscience. 

According to the Bible, divine judgment against a nation and a people takes two forms.   First, God's protection is removed.  Second, the people are allowed to do as they please without a conscience to slow their mad rush into SIN and WICKEDNESS and death. 

On the first matter, God's protection of America does indeed seem to have been removed.  In Afghanistan we have lost ANOTHER WAR.  Abroad, other nations are meeting to decide how they will deal with American defeat and a future without American military guidance.   American news media is reluctant to inform us of these meetings yet they are happening with increased rapidity.

On the second matter, all sorts of filthiness and wickedness is infecting America.  We love violence and it has been brought home to us. It's on our streets and infiltrated our homes and even the halls of congress.  We love corruption and foolishness.  It has become part of our private conduct and governmental policy.  It's been said, for example, that if a man wants to go crazy he should move to Washington, DC where it will not be noticed.  Fools rule everywhere in America but no more so than our nation's capital.

The church has become a plastic religion and is being judged.  (1 Peter 4:17) 

The church has embraced the ways of the world and rejected Jesus Christ its founder.  Several major denominations have declared during their annual policy conventions that the Bible is no longer God's inspired Word for the world.  As a result the Holy Spirit has departed from it.  (1 Sam 4:21) The church is Ichabod.  According to PEW and Gallup statistical poll analysis the number of regular attendance in our churches as determined by one worship service a month has fallen to 50% of 1948 levels in the year 2010.  Projections of this decline if unabated will fall to 10% by the year 2050.

The church now fancies itself, like satan before it, on the very throne of God.

Pride goes before a fall and the rainbow flag, which is called pride by its followers, now flies on the property of many of our oldest churches.  I've seen it as I'm sure you have too.  The LAW of Moses, which is the foundation of Judeo-Christian religion morality and ethics, is rejected by most Christians.  The result is that all sorts of doctrines of demons has been approved for dissemination to congregations than number fewer each year.  Indeed, many Christians for many years now assert that the entire Tanakh (OT) ought to be stricken from the Bible.

We have entered a new dark age of censorship, ignorance and willful pride.  Fools rule and they do not rule well.   Everyone has their own opinion, which they regard with higher esteem than God's Word.  Unfortunately they,  like Eve and Adam before them, have feasted on the tree of Opinion.  They have marched out of the garden of their own volition and proudly reject the God who gave them life.  They shall have their reward and it will not be a good one.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
« Last Edit: Tue Aug 24, 2021 - 07:53:56 by Choir Loft »

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #54 on: Tue Aug 24, 2021 - 07:45:30 »
You get to tell God what He should do?   rofl  Maybe you need to be silent in your choir loft.

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #55 on: Tue Aug 24, 2021 - 07:56:50 »
You get to tell God what He should do?   rofl  Maybe you need to be silent in your choir loft.

I read the Bible and declare its LAW and mercy. 

God doesn't care about your opinion - or mine either.   It is our duty to seek and DO that which is the will of God as it is revealed in His Word.

Exactly how did you determine I've told God what to do?

Certainly no one can tell you what to do.  Can they?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #56 on: Sat Aug 28, 2021 - 13:48:45 »
It is interesting that you write with a two-faced agenda. 

On the one hand you admit with greater documentation than I presented - that the church DID persecute Jews.  It has been my impression and persuasion that the church persecuted "the saints", which Revelation mentions .  History declares gentiles as well as Jews were persecuted.  That number in my recollection was between fifty and sixty millions of people.  You quote the number as approximately one hundred twenty-five million.  That's an interesting figure, something not to be ignored. 

On the other hand, you falsely claim Jews did the same to gentiles without quoting any numbers or circumstances.  Interestingly you provide NO documentation to certify that particular assertion.  Part of the history of church discrimination against Jews was to claim Jewish persecution of gentiles.  This is not part of the Jewish faith or any mitzvah, but it was indeed Vatican policy at one time.  Indeed to this day the Vatican's position on religion is that its leader, the Pope, IS GOD.  "The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."
Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

I am not attempting to Judaize anyone.

I've stated over and over again that Jewish traditions DO NOT save anyone, but neither do Christian traditions.  This is a fact oddly overlooked in your posts.  Does Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, or Halloween ghosts goblins vampire and pumpkins sold by the truckload in front of our churches save anyone?  C&E Christians think their rare appearances in holiday worship services will stamp their passport to heaven, but it won't.  Christian tradition doesn't save anyone, yet you will not admit to this heresy without denigrating Jews in the process. 

I do quote scripture and the context in which it is written. 

It is no fault of mine that most Christians refuse good education and references with regard to learning about their religion.  Those that join themselves to Christ submit to Him as their lord savior and King.  Jesus, as clearly taught in the gospels, is the King of the Jews.  Hence those who swear their allegiance to Him become Jews as well.  It is so stated by Paul in Romans 2:29.  Denial of this spiritual principle is more than dogma it is treachery against the King who offered Himself as a sacrifice for SINNERS.  Millions have sworn their allegiance to the Pope of the RCC.  When they do so they declare the Pope is their god, not Christ.  Pope would be their spiritual head, not Christ.  That to which one swears allegiance is that which is one's lord including but not limited to the flag of the government of the United States.(*)

The Bible nowhere certifies that blaspheme is allowed by God, yet Christians consistently behave as though it is.   Believing the church has replaced Israel in the eyes of God is a blasphemous SIN.  Its also a bare faced lie.

Attacking Jews is becoming the popular sport these days.  Let the reader beware lest he or she become caught up in it for God blesses those who bless Israel and curses those who curse it. (Genesis 12:3) 

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(*) The Pledge of Allegiance as recited in America is actually an oath of loyalty to the government, not the country - BIG difference....  "to the flag and to the republic for which it stands......"

I think you have some reader comprehension issues.

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #57 on: Mon Aug 30, 2021 - 21:34:58 »
I think you have some reader comprehension issues.

Pointless accusation.  Be specific.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #58 on: Mon Aug 30, 2021 - 21:57:25 »
Since September 12th of 2001 I was placed under a form of modified house arrest by the FBI as a person of great interest.  In May of 2001 I published a prophecy given to me by our Lord and God, Christ Jesus, on the most popular web site at that time on the www.  Nothing I had ever considered myself, yet following the directive of my Lord and God, and laughing all the time in the personal effort it took to do so, I presented all that I was given.  I was no less surprised than anyone else as 911 became reality, just as I had published earlier.  Not being able to explain my new found gift of prophecy to the FBI, led to my being placed under this modified form of house arrest.  Last February I was informed that I was now free to go and do as I pleased.  Yet in pressing 72 years of age, just where am I to go and do as I please?

During these past twenty some odd years, I received many calls requesting my personal insight on various affairs, since the 911 prophecy was spot on.  Expecting insight on various world affairs as they came along, so as to be best prepared for the outcome.  Since 2015, I am not very well liked for the insight I had given on present world affairs.  It goes against what most Christians now hold on to and believe about these last days.

The lesser of two evils is just that, especially when it comes to the standard election cycle.  It does not matter whether the evil is seen as Democrat or Republican, nor some form of independent, yet it must be accepted as our present form of government.  All claim to be different, yet there is never any real change to the status quo, for one an all are working toward the same goals and adjectives.  A New World Order.

As for those who profess to be Christians, they presently fall into the classifications of Zionist, Neo-Cons and Armageddon Now movements, the likes of Israel First.  Expecting that God is dependent upon their personal conduct and actions to establish the Kingdom of Heaven upon this whole earth.  Once again, A New World Order.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

At present, our Lord and God is standing by, just allowing world events to unfold as one an all have plans and designs to advance their own personal New World Order.  Very soon, especially for those of the USA, divine intervention will be most needed as all spins out of control.

At present, world affairs match the book King James has removed from our present day bibles.  "King James Bible or nothing else!", is the present spirit of strong delusion that is designed to leave one an all most unprepared for the wrath of our Lord and God that is about to blaze forth.

No where else in this present world has Satan a more powerful seat than right here in the USA. 

Don't be caught off guard.  Please stay alert an attentive to all Christ Jesus had to say about these last days of this present day and age. 

Resting and giving all praise, honor and glory to our most eternal word, Christ Jesus, I pray.

I'm not familiar with the remarks you claim drew attention from the FBI.  I'm not sure if you're bragging or complaining about that.  Be that as it may I have a remark or too of my own to make.

The chief problem God seems to have with the United States is that of PASSIVE INDIFFERENCE.

As far back as the late 1950's evangelists like Billy Graham and Oral Roberts broadcast sermons with a warning against PASSIVE INDIFFERENCE toward God.  America was drifting in that direction and they warned if nothing was done something dreadful would happen.  On November 22, 1963 something dreadful did happen.  It permanently and irrevocably altered the direction of American history and government. 

In the late 1960's thru the mid-1970's something else of note happened.  It was the period of the LAST Holy Spirit revival in America.  Most church leaders did all they could to discourage those who were inspired by it.  Many actively denied the Holy Spirit itself.  Historically there had been a national revival in every generation, but the one that ended in the mid-70's was the last America would ever see.   From that time forward the people of the United States began to spiral away from anything approaching respect for the Most High.

Passive indifference toward God is actually ACTIVE MALICE.

Here in the twenty-first century America has gone beyond passive indifference into an attitude of overt hatred of God and disrespect of His saving grace.  The attitude of active malice is no longer hidden.

"A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death." - Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

In the twenty-first century America is addicted to brutality and hedonism.  The qualities of mercy and peace Jesus taught is passe.  The application of LAW as presented by Moses and which at one time was the foundation of American society is nowhere respected.  Even Christian churches reject it.  Nobody accepts these attitudes as something worthy of pursuit.  In the 1950's and early 1960's PEACE was actively sought.  LAW was respected.  Today it is totally and completely unknown among ourselves and our leaders.  Bullets and bribes are the accepted tools of the American empire.

But the empire is showing severe signs of stress and possible collapse.   We have LOST ANOTHER WAR and our financial prospects for the future are discouraging to say the least.

In all of this, NO church presents REPENTANCE as a viable source of God's mercy.  We certainly need help from providence, but we won't get it until and unless we REPENT of our SINs and wickedness.

Are we living in the Last Days of human history?  Maybe we are and maybe we aren't.  One thing is certain. We ARE living in the last days of the American Empire.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft... 

« Last Edit: Mon Aug 30, 2021 - 22:03:42 by Choir Loft »