Author Topic: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times  (Read 2533 times)

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Offline Saber

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The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« on: Sat Jun 26, 2021 - 04:42:21 »
Since September 12th of 2001 I was placed under a form of modified house arrest by the FBI as a person of great interest.  In May of 2001 I published a prophecy given to me by our Lord and God, Christ Jesus, on the most popular web site at that time on the www.  Nothing I had ever considered myself, yet following the directive of my Lord and God, and laughing all the time in the personal effort it took to do so, I presented all that I was given.  I was no less surprised than anyone else as 911 became reality, just as I had published earlier.  Not being able to explain my new found gift of prophecy to the FBI, led to my being placed under this modified form of house arrest.  Last February I was informed that I was now free to go and do as I pleased.  Yet in pressing 72 years of age, just where am I to go and do as I please?

During these past twenty some odd years, I received many calls requesting my personal insight on various affairs, since the 911 prophecy was spot on.  Expecting insight on various world affairs as they came along, so as to be best prepared for the outcome.  Since 2015, I am not very well liked for the insight I had given on present world affairs.  It goes against what most Christians now hold on to and believe about these last days.

The lesser of two evils is just that, especially when it comes to the standard election cycle.  It does not matter whether the evil is seen as Democrat or Republican, nor some form of independent, yet it must be accepted as our present form of government.  All claim to be different, yet there is never any real change to the status quo, for one an all are working toward the same goals and adjectives.  A New World Order.

As for those who profess to be Christians, they presently fall into the classifications of Zionist, Neo-Cons and Armageddon Now movements, the likes of Israel First.  Expecting that God is dependent upon their personal conduct and actions to establish the Kingdom of Heaven upon this whole earth.  Once again, A New World Order.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

At present, our Lord and God is standing by, just allowing world events to unfold as one an all have plans and designs to advance their own personal New World Order.  Very soon, especially for those of the USA, divine intervention will be most needed as all spins out of control.

At present, world affairs match the book King James has removed from our present day bibles.  "King James Bible or nothing else!", is the present spirit of strong delusion that is designed to leave one an all most unprepared for the wrath of our Lord and God that is about to blaze forth.

No where else in this present world has Satan a more powerful seat than right here in the USA. 

Don't be caught off guard.  Please stay alert an attentive to all Christ Jesus had to say about these last days of this present day and age. 

Resting and giving all praise, honor and glory to our most eternal word, Christ Jesus, I pray.


Offline Rella

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #1 on: Sat Jun 26, 2021 - 08:33:33 »
Thank you for telling us of you insights and perspectives.

Offline Saber

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #2 on: Sat Jun 26, 2021 - 09:50:25 »
As I am not only personally involved by way of our Lord and God's own personal insight, but have received calls on these affairs, Bible Prophecy and current world affairs, from others who have requested this all be kept most secret.  My Lord and God is as stated, on stand by, allowing these affairs to unfold.  I am to follow his lead as well, for it is not my own personal words of prophecy, but our own Lord and God's eternal words of bible prophecy being fulfilled.

One an all in Christ Jesus should most certainly draw near, to see, hear and to have their own personal fate explained by the author and finisher of their very own faith.  Listen and follow all his personal directives in direct regards to your very own and personal needs.  Our Lord and God does not play favorites.  Become dependent on the one true Lord and God of All, he will never leave you or forsake you.

The present nation state of Israel is only a marker and a reminder for one and all in Christ Jesus, the true Bride, Body and Church of Christ Jesus.  This present nation state does not honor, praise let alone glorify our personal Lord and God, Christ Jesus.  These words of promise of and from our Lord and God are for HIS personal Bride, Body and Church, and not some nation state.  That is the true Israel our Lord and God died for. 

These soon coming events will draw my own life and walk with Christ Jesus to it's present close.  My new life in and for Christ Jesus does lay just ahead as well.  Most anxious to see all the treasured loved ones who have pass on before me, especially my twin brother and my Lord and God, Christ Jesus.

Most fearful to leave my children and grand children behind, yet given the blessing and assurance they will remain to establish the soon coming Kingdom of Heaven upon this earth. 

Watch and pray for your very own personal guidance at this hour of need, in Christ Jesus I pray.


Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jun 27, 2021 - 06:46:46 »
Thank you for telling us of you insights and perspectives.
Rella, you just might want to go and check out this man before thanking him. I went and briefly read his posts back as far as ten years or so. All I will say is he's strange.  He just started back posting after about three years of not posting. Read them for yourself and you can make your own judgment.

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jun 27, 2021 - 06:46:46 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jun 27, 2021 - 21:34:51 »
Even if God really did reveal prophetic events to you personally, do you really think He is now on stand by, because He has perhaps not given you any additional visions or what have you, lately? Or has He told you personally, that He is now on stand by? Do you think the evil one, the man of sin, and Babylon the Great are now on stand by as well? Or is it just God that is now on stand by? What exactly does it mean for God to be on stand by?

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jun 27, 2021 - 21:34:51 »



Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #5 on: Tue Jul 06, 2021 - 01:37:57 »
Quote
Since September 12th of 2001 I was placed under a form of modified house arrest by the FBI as a person of great interest.  In May of 2001 I published a prophecy given to me by our Lord and God, Christ Jesus, on the most popular web site at that time on the www.  Nothing I had ever considered myself, yet following the directive of my Lord and God, and laughing all the time in the personal effort it took to do so, I presented all that I was given.  I was no less surprised than anyone else as 911 became reality, just as I had published earlier.  Not being able to explain my new found gift of prophecy to the FBI, led to my being placed under this modified form of house arrest.  Last February I was informed that I was now free to go and do as I pleased.  Yet in pressing 72 years of age, just where am I to go and do as I please?

During these past twenty some odd years, I received many calls requesting my personal insight on various affairs, since the 911 prophecy was spot on.  Expecting insight on various world affairs as they came along, so as to be best prepared for the outcome.  Since 2015, I am not very well liked for the insight I had given on present world affairs.  It goes against what most Christians now hold on to and believe about these last days.

The lesser of two evils is just that, especially when it comes to the standard election cycle.  It does not matter whether the evil is seen as Democrat or Republican, nor some form of independent, yet it must be accepted as our present form of government.  All claim to be different, yet there is never any real change to the status quo, for one an all are working toward the same goals and adjectives.  A New World Order.

As for those who profess to be Christians, they presently fall into the classifications of Zionist, Neo-Cons and Armageddon Now movements, the likes of Israel First.  Expecting that God is dependent upon their personal conduct and actions to establish the Kingdom of Heaven upon this whole earth.  Once again, A New World Order.  Nothing could be further from the truth.

At present, our Lord and God is standing by, just allowing world events to unfold as one an all have plans and designs to advance their own personal New World Order.  Very soon, especially for those of the USA, divine intervention will be most needed as all spins out of control.

At present, world affairs match the book King James has removed from our present day bibles.  "King James Bible or nothing else!", is the present spirit of strong delusion that is designed to leave one an all most unprepared for the wrath of our Lord and God that is about to blaze forth. 

No where else in this present world has Satan a more powerful seat than right here in the USA.

Don't be caught off guard.  Please stay alert an attentive to all Christ Jesus had to say about these last days of this present day and age.

Resting and giving all praise, honor and glory to our most eternal word, Christ Jesus, I pray.

Since we already have God's word to the Prophets, Jesus and the Apostle's, why would we need additional prophecies from you, and how would we know they are the actual words of God, beyond you telling us they are?  Reading through some of your earlier posts, it seems that you traveled widely, I would say extremely widely for someone who claims to have been under FBI house arrest since 911.

Prophecy in the Bible is always centered on the Middle East.  Tangentially it is sometimes dealing with other areas, but it is still Middle East-centric and all prophesies, at their core are there to predict what will ultimately happen to Israel, God's people, and Christ's Kingdom.  So I am always amazed when people try to focus in on biblical prophecy and attempt to make it's focus pointing to the USA.  The USA is not the Holy Land and it is not God's main End Times focus.  The USA will fall at some point.  It is not an important country, eschatologically, beyond sheltering God's people and it will not play a major role in the End Times because it will be a fallen Hot Mess 3rd world country by that time.  It's headed there now.  At some point the Fed will print one too many dollar bills and the economy will crumble like one of those cute domino videos on Youtube.  The Jews are God's people, whether they are currently faithful to Him or not.  And we are to support them as such.  I have found that people who toss out the word "Zionist" are also usually people who believe in Replacement Theology.  The Church does not replace Israel.  The church is nothing more than a temporary annex of Israel.  As such, we can already quite clearly know that your "prophecies" do not originate with God.

Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #6 on: Tue Jul 06, 2021 - 04:15:01 »
Prophecy in the Bible is always centered on the Middle East.
Though I disagree with the man who made the opening post, you too are just plain wrong in some of your statements. Bible prophecy has to deal with THIS WORLD as a whole, which is MYSTERY BABYLON with its religion and its commerce and entertainments. Every prophet of the OT prophesied concerning Babylon and her utter destruction that is coming upon her. We can consider this if you desire to do so.
Quote from: Cobalt1959 on: Today at 01:37:57
Tangentially it is sometimes dealing with other areas, but it is still Middle East-centric and all prophecies, at their core are there to predict what will ultimately happen to Israel, God's people, and Christ's Kingdom.
Sir, that's false teaching. Physical Israel is NOT God's people, and the kingdom of God has not one thing to do with Israel after the flesh, zero! Other than they who are children of God's promises along with the Gentiles are the two witnesses that make of the church of Jesus Christ which is the TRUE KINGDOM of God visible on this earth, and that shall inherit the world to come.
Quote from: Cobalt1959 on: Today at 01:37:57
The USA is not the Holy Land and it is not God's main End Times focus.
Actually there's no "holy" land in THIS earth, for it shall all soon perish with fire. Agree with the USA is not the main focus point of bible prophecy, yet without question a big part in its final destruction, along with every other nation, EXCEPT the holy nation of Jesus Christ, his called-out ones.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Revelation 11:18~And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."
Quote from: Cobalt1959 on: Today at 01:37:57
The Jews are God's people, whether they are currently faithful to Him or not.
That's a lie! God's people are the children of his promises known by their FAITHFULNESS and their love for Jesus Christ....period! You are giving physical Israel a false hope that shall keep them in their sins safe and secured!
Quote
The Church does not replace Israel.
Well now, the church of Jesus Christ is NOT a afterthought in God's plan of redemption for his people the church of Jesus Christ made up of JEWS and GENTILES In the OT, God dealt mainly with Physical Israel with a few Gentiles here and there~in the NT he is dealing mainly with Gentiles, with a few Jews here and there~to teach us a great bible truth~that SALVATION is entirely of Lord, and not of men!
Quote from: Paul
Romans 11:30-36~"For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen."
Quote from: Cobalt1959 on: Today at 01:37:57
The church is nothing more than a temporary annex of Israel.
Blasphemy! The church of Jesus Christ which is HIS BODY, he being the head thereof, is NOT a subordinate part of National Israel, and never will be! The church has been grafted in with Israel OT SAINTS and they TWO are ONE holy temple in the Lord for the Spirit of God to dwell in, world without end. This is a mystery hidden in the OT reveal to us by JEWISH APOSTLES of the NT, mainly Paul, Peter, James, and John. (Ephesians 2:11-3:21. etc.)
« Last Edit: Tue Jul 06, 2021 - 04:19:08 by RB »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #7 on: Wed Jul 07, 2021 - 07:40:47 »
As I am not only personally involved by way of our Lord and God's own personal insight, but have received calls on these affairs, Bible Prophecy and current world affairs, from others who have requested this all be kept most secret.  My Lord and God is as stated, on stand by, allowing these affairs to unfold.  I am to follow his lead as well, for it is not my own personal words of prophecy, but our own Lord and God's eternal words of bible prophecy being fulfilled.

One an all in Christ Jesus should most certainly draw near, to see, hear and to have their own personal fate explained by the author and finisher of their very own faith.  Listen and follow all his personal directives in direct regards to your very own and personal needs.  Our Lord and God does not play favorites.  Become dependent on the one true Lord and God of All, he will never leave you or forsake you.

The present nation state of Israel is only a marker and a reminder for one and all in Christ Jesus, the true Bride, Body and Church of Christ Jesus.  This present nation state does not honor, praise let alone glorify our personal Lord and God, Christ Jesus.  These words of promise of and from our Lord and God are for HIS personal Bride, Body and Church, and not some nation state.  That is the true Israel our Lord and God died for. 

These soon coming events will draw my own life and walk with Christ Jesus to it's present close.  My new life in and for Christ Jesus does lay just ahead as well.  Most anxious to see all the treasured loved ones who have pass on before me, especially my twin brother and my Lord and God, Christ Jesus.

Most fearful to leave my children and grand children behind, yet given the blessing and assurance they will remain to establish the soon coming Kingdom of Heaven upon this earth. 

Watch and pray for your very own personal guidance at this hour of need, in Christ Jesus I pray.

Anti-Semitic rhetoric does not suffice to promote Biblical truth.   It does, however, further the hatred of Jews inspired in most Christians today.

The Bible NOWHERE says the church will replace Christ or that the LAW has been abolished.   The STATE OF ISRAEL is the actual physical homeland of God's people on earth.  The church hasn't displaced them in some sort of metaphysical adaptation.  Replacement theology is a heresy of the Roman Catholic church - THE anti-christ beast identified in Revelation. 

When a man or woman becomes saved THEY BECOME JEWS in God's sight.  (Romans 2:29)  The church IS NOT the saving grace of God on earth.  Nobody will be saved by church membership.  Only the blood of Jesus Christ is sufficient to save.  Christian tradition won't save anyone - any more than Jewish tradition will save.  Jesus saves - not Popes, not the Jewish rabbinate, and certainly not self-aggrandizing protestant churches.

Zionism was begun to establish a homeland for Jews.   The defense of the Jewish homeland remains a top priority NOT world conquest as is the expressed desire of the fanatic followers of the church (mostly RCC) or the corporate powers that now direct the policy of the United States government.

Prophecy is given by God to encourage believers, NOT to glorify a man or woman who claims to have special "powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men".

ALL Biblical prophecy centers around the State of Israel, not Washington DC, London, Moscow, Bejing or the home town of some self-proclaimed future teller.  Read the Bible, not your tea leaves, chicken bones or Ouija board.  The center of God's work is in the hearts of redeemed men and women and in Israel itself.  The mystery of redemption is still unfolding.

HATE LANGUAGE directed at Jews in general and the State of Israel in particular does not reveal truth.  It only demonstrates vile affections to the whole world.  It does not glorify Jesus Christ A JEW.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #8 on: Thu Jul 08, 2021 - 08:28:17 »
Anti-Semitic rhetoric does not suffice to promote Biblical truth.   It does, however, further the hatred of Jews inspired in most Christians today.
Just because one does not lift Physical Israel upon a petal, does not mean we hate them, far from that.
Quote
Romans 15:8-27~"Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers: And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name. And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people. And again, Praise the Lord, all ye Gentiles; and laud him, all ye people. And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust. Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost. And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another. Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ. Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation: But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand. For which cause also I have been much hindered from coming to you. But now having no more place in these parts, and having a great desire these many years to come unto you; Whensoever I take my journey into Spain, I will come to you: for I trust to see you in my journey, and to be brought on my way thitherward by you, if first I be somewhat filled with your company. But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem. It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them (SAINTS~RB) in carnal things."
We Gentiles are made PARTAKERS WITH THEM in the promises of God. We LOVE all men, especially so SAINTS be they Jews or Gentiles, yet we owe no Jews who do not show love for the truth anything just because they are Jews. God is no respecter of a person as far as nationality goes and neither are his people, we love all that love our Lord Jesus Christ be whoever they may be.
Quote from: Choir Loft
on: Yesterday at 07:40:47
The Bible NOWHERE says the church will replace Christ
I have no clue what you mean by this statement, and most likely neither do you. Do you want to try this again?
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 07:40:47
or that the LAW has been abolished
Briefly~Yes and no would be the answer to that statement.  Yes, it has been as far a the means of eternal life~ no, as far as it STILL is a rule saints walk by as the most perfect standard of righteousness.
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 07:40:47
The STATE OF ISRAEL is the actual physical homeland of God's people on earth. 
A Jewish fable~absolutely no biblical truth attached to that statement.
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 07:40:47
The church hasn't displaced them in some sort of metaphysical adaptation.  Replacement theology is a heresy of the Roman Catholic church - THE anti-christ beast identified in Revelation.
Replaced? No, the CHURCH (called out ones) has always been the people to WHOM God's promises were given to, NOT to physical Israel.
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 07:40:47
When a man or woman becomes saved THEY BECOME JEWS in God's sight.  (Romans 2:29)
They just do not become a Jew but WERE the TRUE JEWS and the TRUE seed of Christ to whom God's promises were given to in Christ before the world began.
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 07:40:47
ALL Biblical prophecy centers around the State of Israel
Prove it~I'll be watching to see if you can, but I will not hold my breath.
Quote
HATE LANGUAGE directed at Jews in general and the State of Israel in particular does not reveal truth.
NO ONE hates a Jew just because he is a Jew~we rejects Jewish fable supported by men void of the Spirit of God. Jesus Christ spoke very hard against Jewish fables in his day~ did this mean that he hated them?  LOVE tells the truth, hate keeps the truth from folks! Do I need to prove this also?
« Last Edit: Thu Jul 08, 2021 - 08:32:43 by RB »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #9 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 08:21:00 »
Just because one does not lift Physical Israel upon a petal, does not mean we hate them, far from that. We Gentiles are made PARTAKERS WITH THEM in the promises of God. We LOVE all men, especially so SAINTS be they Jews or Gentiles, yet we owe no Jews who do not show love for the truth anything just because they are Jews. God is no respecter of a person as far as nationality goes and neither are his people, we love all that love our Lord Jesus Christ be whoever they may be. I have no clue what you mean by this statement, and most likely neither do you. Do you want to try this again?  Briefly~Yes and no would be the answer to that statement.  Yes, it has been as far a the means of eternal life~ no, as far as it STILL is a rule saints walk by as the most perfect standard of righteousness. A Jewish fable~absolutely no biblical truth attached to that statement. Replaced? No, the CHURCH (called out ones) has always been the people to WHOM God's promises were given to, NOT to physical Israel.  They just do not become a Jew but WERE the TRUE JEWS and the TRUE seed of Christ to whom God's promises were given to in Christ before the world began.  Prove it~I'll be watching to see if you can, but I will not hold my breath. NO ONE hates a Jew just because he is a Jew~we rejects Jewish fable supported by men void of the Spirit of God. Jesus Christ spoke very hard against Jewish fables in his day~ did this mean that he hated them?  LOVE tells the truth, hate keeps the truth from folks! Do I need to prove this also?

Ignorance of history and the Bible do not do service to any who attempt to interpret Christian ideology.   REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY or SUPERSESSIONISM is a reference to the Roman Catholic (and now Protestant) ideology that the church has superseded Israel and the Jewish people.  It is entirely false, but protestants who choose to be ignorant of history and who are Biblically illiterate continue to adhere to it.  It is entirely false and an extreme example of religious anti-Semitism.

Jesus didn't speak against Jewish fables, whatever that phrase is supposed to mean.  He spoke against the Talmud and extreme dependence upon tradition.   To this day Christians rely upon the exact same philosophy to save themselves.  Jewish tradition won't save anybody, but neither will Christian traditions.   Christians continue to worship Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, and the Halloween pumpkin witch as demi-gods - placing offerings of sweet foods and gifts at their feet.  They hypocritically denounce Jewish traditional observances even as they promote their own.

What is love of truth?  In the mind of Christians no Jew can embrace the truth unless they join a church.  This is the foremost of hypocrisy, since no JEW of Jesus' time ever joined a church.  Read the Bible.  Approximately 33% of Jews in Jesus' time became believers in Him as ha-Mashiach (messiah - the anointed One).  Every instance of group worship of these people was set in a synagogue.  There were home Bible studies to be sure, but worship was always conducted in a synagogue - until gentile influence dictated it be done in a venue of their own choosing and design. 

Your post reveals a deep rooted hatred of Jews.  I abhor such language and lies promoted on a web site that identifies with Christ - Himself a JEW.  You really need to make a great effort to understand history and what the Bible says, rather than the propagandistic rhetoric you repeat here.  A basic knowledge of theology and history wouldn't hurt either.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft... 

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #10 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 09:50:32 »
Ignorance of history and the Bible do not do service to any who attempt to interpret Christian ideology.   REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY or SUPERSESSIONISM is a reference to the Roman Catholic (and now Protestant) ideology that the church has superseded Israel and the Jewish people.  It is entirely false, but protestants who choose to be ignorant of history and who are Biblically illiterate continue to adhere to it.  It is entirely false and an extreme example of religious anti-Semitism.

Jesus didn't speak against Jewish fables, whatever that phrase is supposed to mean.  He spoke against the Talmud and extreme dependence upon tradition.   To this day Christians rely upon the exact same philosophy to save themselves.  Jewish tradition won't save anybody, but neither will Christian traditions.   Christians continue to worship Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, and the Halloween pumpkin witch as demi-gods - placing offerings of sweet foods and gifts at their feet.  They hypocritically denounce Jewish traditional observances even as they promote their own.

What is love of truth?  In the mind of Christians no Jew can embrace the truth unless they join a church.  This is the foremost of hypocrisy, since no JEW of Jesus' time ever joined a church.  Read the Bible.  Approximately 33% of Jews in Jesus' time became believers in Him as ha-Mashiach (messiah - the anointed One).  Every instance of group worship of these people was set in a synagogue.  There were home Bible studies to be sure, but worship was always conducted in a synagogue - until gentile influence dictated it be done in a venue of their own choosing and design. 

Your post reveals a deep rooted hatred of Jews.  I abhor such language and lies promoted on a web site that identifies with Christ - Himself a JEW.  You really need to make a great effort to understand history and what the Bible says, rather than the propagandistic rhetoric you repeat here.  A basic knowledge of theology and history wouldn't hurt either.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Hello Choir Loft. Could you please give me your understanding of the following scriptures in light of your testimony above? Thank you.

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 4 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Who do you understand the kingdom of God was taken away from, and to whom was it given?

Are Jews and Gentiles in Christ still two separate peoples, even though the above quoted scriptures say they have been made one?

Are Jews who still reject Jesus as their Messiah still the Israel of God? If so why? If not why not?

Just wondering what your understanding is regarding these issues, in accordance with your statement above. Please use scripture to verify your positions. Thank you.
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 09:53:26 by Amo »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #11 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 08:57:08 »
Hello Choir Loft. Could you please give me your understanding of the following scriptures in light of your testimony above? Thank you.

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? 43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. 46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 4 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Who do you understand the kingdom of God was taken away from, and to whom was it given?

Are Jews and Gentiles in Christ still two separate peoples, even though the above quoted scriptures say they have been made one?

Are Jews who still reject Jesus as their Messiah still the Israel of God? If so why? If not why not?

Just wondering what your understanding is regarding these issues, in accordance with your statement above. Please use scripture to verify your positions. Thank you.

First let me clarify that the following requested answer is not MINE, but that of accepted scholars of the Bible.  One must do one's own homework in regard to these matters.  Apparently you have neglected such studies.  Nevertheless I serve to instruct.

Matthew 21:33 parable of the householder:
 The remarks of Christ quoted here are in direct reference to the Jewish rabbinate, who dictated interpretations of the mitzvah.  Their influence, as well as the entire theocratic structure of ancient Israel, was to be destroyed and replaced by God - directly.  What took its place?  It wasn't the church - the licensed and approved religion of the Roman Empire.
  Shavuot is the Jewish feast of weeks, but is also an observance of God's giving of the LAW to Moses.
  Pentacost is recognized as the observance of God's giving of the Holy Spirit to believers in Y'shuah (Jesus) as ha-Mashiach (anointed One).
 Is it a coincidence that these two events happened on the SAME [Jewish] CALENDAR DAY?  Thus God is saying something important about the interaction of LAW & GRACE. One does not replace the other.
 
 The Kingdom of Heaven was thus removed from the Jewish rabbinate, who mostly follow the Talmud instead of Torah anyway.  It was given by God to those who, by means of faith, became true JEWS IN GOD'S EYES.  (Romans 2:29) 

Ephesians 2 asks the question "who is a Jew?"  Paul answered the question in his second chapter to the Romans, but further explanation needs to be given.

 Unfortunately most Christians, influenced by RCC dogma, accept Replacement Theology which suggests the church replaced Israel as God's earthly representative.  This is entirely false, being predicted by the prophet Daniel as representative of the anti-Christ system.  The 'legitimate' licensed church is NOT representative of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.  Indeed it is part of the anti-Christ system predicted in Revelation 13.  The following example of blaspheme, also predicted by Daniel, was released by the Vatican itself.  Read and learn.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth." - Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

Ezekiel 37 is a prophecy of the resurrection of the State of Israel, which was fulfilled in 1948.  It is nothing less than a miracle of God, for nothing of the sort ever happened in history before that time.  Thus the church is NOT a replacement of Israel in any imaginable way.  Church membership doesn't save even though most Christians believe it does.  Jewish tradition doesn't save, but neither does Christian tradition (Santa Claus, Easter bunny & Halloween pumpkin witches and demons - all embraced by the American church).

Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. - quote of Jesus' prophecy in Luke 21:24

We see in the above that even the capital city of Jerusalem will be returned to Jewish authority as happened in June 1967.

Thus we see that those who accept Christ become Jews - spiritually grafted into the body of Christ (who is definitely not murdered on Catholic altars every Sunday morning according to Romans 6:10).  These people are to be guided in the ways of the LAW by the work of GRACE performed by the Holy Spirit.   As a divinely sanctioned nation on earth the State of Israel, now a republic, serves the purpose of representing God's kingdom among the family of nations.

I caution the reader that I have given only a thumbnail sketch as an answer to the lengthy question quoted at the head of this post.  It remains for the true scholar of scripture and history to weigh the evidence and arrive at an appropriate conclusion - far separate from RCC Futurism and American secular conjecture.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

« Last Edit: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 09:00:36 by Choir Loft »

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #12 on: Sun Jul 18, 2021 - 09:26:55 »
First let me clarify that the following requested answer is not MINE, but that of accepted scholars of the Bible.  One must do one's own homework in regard to these matters.  Apparently you have neglected such studies.  Nevertheless I serve to instruct.

Matthew 21:33 parable of the householder:
 The remarks of Christ quoted here are in direct reference to the Jewish rabbinate, who dictated interpretations of the mitzvah.  Their influence, as well as the entire theocratic structure of ancient Israel, was to be destroyed and replaced by God - directly.  What took its place?  It wasn't the church - the licensed and approved religion of the Roman Empire.
  Shavuot is the Jewish feast of weeks, but is also an observance of God's giving of the LAW to Moses.
  Pentacost is recognized as the observance of God's giving of the Holy Spirit to believers in Y'shuah (Jesus) as ha-Mashiach (anointed One).
 Is it a coincidence that these two events happened on the SAME [Jewish] CALENDAR DAY?  Thus God is saying something important about the interaction of LAW & GRACE. One does not replace the other.
 
 The Kingdom of Heaven was thus removed from the Jewish rabbinate, who mostly follow the Talmud instead of Torah anyway.  It was given by God to those who, by means of faith, became true JEWS IN GOD'S EYES.  (Romans 2:29) 

Ephesians 2 asks the question "who is a Jew?"  Paul answered the question in his second chapter to the Romans, but further explanation needs to be given.

 Unfortunately most Christians, influenced by RCC dogma, accept Replacement Theology which suggests the church replaced Israel as God's earthly representative.  This is entirely false, being predicted by the prophet Daniel as representative of the anti-Christ system.  The 'legitimate' licensed church is NOT representative of the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.  Indeed it is part of the anti-Christ system predicted in Revelation 13.  The following example of blaspheme, also predicted by Daniel, was released by the Vatican itself.  Read and learn.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth." - Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.

Ezekiel 37 is a prophecy of the resurrection of the State of Israel, which was fulfilled in 1948.  It is nothing less than a miracle of God, for nothing of the sort ever happened in history before that time.  Thus the church is NOT a replacement of Israel in any imaginable way.  Church membership doesn't save even though most Christians believe it does.  Jewish tradition doesn't save, but neither does Christian tradition (Santa Claus, Easter bunny & Halloween pumpkin witches and demons - all embraced by the American church).

Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. - quote of Jesus' prophecy in Luke 21:24

We see in the above that even the capital city of Jerusalem will be returned to Jewish authority as happened in June 1967.

Thus we see that those who accept Christ become Jews - spiritually grafted into the body of Christ (who is definitely not murdered on Catholic altars every Sunday morning according to Romans 6:10).  These people are to be guided in the ways of the LAW by the work of GRACE performed by the Holy Spirit.   As a divinely sanctioned nation on earth the State of Israel, now a republic, serves the purpose of representing God's kingdom among the family of nations.

I caution the reader that I have given only a thumbnail sketch as an answer to the lengthy question quoted at the head of this post.  It remains for the true scholar of scripture and history to weigh the evidence and arrive at an appropriate conclusion - far separate from RCC Futurism and American secular conjecture.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Sounds more like the resurrection to me, and the future kingdom of Israel which will be in the presence of God forever. Where is king David in Israel now and forever, as Eze 37 testifies? Where is God's sanctuary in the midst of Israel now and forever, as it testifies. Why are they still sinners as Eze 37 seems to suggest they will no longer be? Why are they still under attack from so many, recently having 2000 misses launched at them, when your prophecy says the all the heathen will know that they are the Lord's sanctified? Of course this is said to be because God's sanctuary is in the midst of them for evermore. It is not with them now, so how can this prophecy be fulfilled as you claim?

Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #13 on: Sun Jul 18, 2021 - 13:18:30 »
Jesus didn't speak against Jewish fables, whatever that phrase is supposed to mean
Mock on, you are only showing your ignorance of the scriptures.
Quote from: Paul a Jew by nature
Titus 1:18~"Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth."
I could give you  a long list of Jewish fables preached by men just like you as you folks are being used as a puppet by men who have more Judaism in the teaching than Christianity!
Quote from:  Choir Loft Reply #9 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 08:21:00
To this day Christians rely upon the exact same philosophy to save themselves.  Jewish tradition won't save anybody, but neither will Christian traditions.   Christians continue to worship Santa Claus, the Easter bunny, and the Halloween pumpkin witch as demi-gods - placing offerings of sweet foods and gifts at their feet.  They hypocritically denounce Jewish traditional observances even as they promote their own.
Christians worship God through our Lord Jesus Christ~religion and religious folks do as you have said here, not Christians! So please do not use that sacred name "Christians" and accused them of something they do not do. Are you someone other than a Christian?
Quote from: Choir Loft Reply #9 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 08:21:00
What is love of truth?  In the mind of Christians, no Jew can embrace the truth unless they join a church.   
Sir, you are full of BEANS! You ae making up lies which you cannot support. NO ONE here has said one MUST join a church before they can be in the truth, be they Jews or Gentiles! If they have, then, they are wrong.
Quote from: Choir Loft Reply #9 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 08:21:00
Your post reveals a deep rooted hatred of Jews.  I abhor such language and lies promoted on a web site that identifies with Christ - Himself a JEW.
No, not even close~for Abraham, and his natural seed who were children of God promises are my brothers and sister in the faith of Jesus Christ, these like many Gentiles are enemies to Jesus Christ and should be avoided and surely not supported even though they profess to be children of Abraham, yet Not all Jews are children of God's promises not his true children, if so, they would do the works of Abraham and LOVE JESUS CHRIST and his people be they Jews or Gentiles.

The only person(s) who has a deep-rooted hatred in them are those who reject the truth that ONLY those who loved Jesus Christ ARE HIS TRUE SPIRITUAL SEED~the rest are children of the devil be they Jews or Gentiles.

Just because you are not capable of answering a post made to you, do not use ad hominem of making false accusations. 
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 19, 2021 - 03:40:33 by RB »

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #14 on: Mon Jul 19, 2021 - 04:05:00 »
As a divinely sanctioned nation on earth the State of Israel, now a republic, serves the purpose of representing God's kingdom among the family of nations.
Prove from the scriptures that are written by Jews were they taught their nation in the latter days of the times of Christ (beginning at his birth to his second coming at the last day) the natural seed of Abraham would serve as God's kingdom among the nations of the earth~I can save you some time by telling you there is not even a word of promise stating this will be so. God's kingdom on earth since Christ and until his coming again where Jesus Christ is Lord and King~ is a spiritual kingdom comprised of people from ALL NATIONS of the earth. THESE make up the twelve tribes of Israel!
Quote from: John a Jew by nature
Revelation 7:9~"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
The 144,000 represented a GREAT MULTITUDE which NO MAN could number! They were from ALL NATIONS, KINDRED, PEOPLE, and TONGUES~not just from Abraham's natural seed, who like the rest of the world APART from God's grace...... were his enemies.

You have been deceived by many Jewish fables! This one the biggest of them all that they are his chosen people EVEN WHILE they reject Jesus Christ and his TRUE BRIDE and lover................... people from ALL NATIONS. 

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #15 on: Fri Jul 23, 2021 - 10:39:24 »
Sounds more like the resurrection to me, and the future kingdom of Israel which will be in the presence of God forever. Where is king David in Israel now and forever, as Eze 37 testifies? Where is God's sanctuary in the midst of Israel now and forever, as it testifies. Why are they still sinners as Eze 37 seems to suggest they will no longer be? Why are they still under attack from so many, recently having 2000 misses launched at them, when your prophecy says the all the heathen will know that they are the Lord's sanctified? Of course this is said to be because God's sanctuary is in the midst of them for evermore. It is not with them now, so how can this prophecy be fulfilled as you claim?

Let everyone understand that you mean only to argue, not to provide understanding.

Ezekiel's chapter 37 prophecy was fulfilled in 1948 when Israel became a sovereign nation.  Jerusalem was liberated in 1968 by the IDF in fulfillment of Jesus prophecy of Luke 21:24.

It is no less the power of God which brought Israel into existence after two thousand years and which protects and preserves her daily.

If all you can do is argue against fact and reality, then I suggest you prepare yourself for a life of bitter disappointment.    You are not in agreement with either the Bible or reality.  I suggest you do a bit of study of God's Word.   

Hatred of Jews doesn't do you service.

But it does please the plastic church of today.   Its time to choose your allegiance - God or the devil.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #16 on: Fri Jul 23, 2021 - 20:48:26 »
Let everyone understand that you mean only to argue, not to provide understanding.

Ezekiel's chapter 37 prophecy was fulfilled in 1948 when Israel became a sovereign nation.  Jerusalem was liberated in 1968 by the IDF in fulfillment of Jesus prophecy of Luke 21:24.

It is no less the power of God which brought Israel into existence after two thousand years and which protects and preserves her daily.

If all you can do is argue against fact and reality, then I suggest you prepare yourself for a life of bitter disappointment.    You are not in agreement with either the Bible or reality.  I suggest you do a bit of study of God's Word.   

Hatred of Jews doesn't do you service.

But it does please the plastic church of today.   Its time to choose your allegiance - God or the devil.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Let everyone understand that you answered none of my questions. Let everyone understand that you have no idea what my intentions are. I do not hate anyone because you have said so. My Grandfather on my mother's side was Jewish, I therefore am part Jewish, I have of course Jewish family, and have had many Jewish friends throughout my life. Again, you do not know me or what my intentions are.

Just declaring everyone who disagrees with you to be of the devil, or biblically ignorant does not, and will not makes such so. If you are not able to answer the questions I have asked, or are not able to explain your views to others without personally attacking them if they disagree with you, then maybe you are the one who needs to apply yourself to a little more bible study.

One more question for you. The prophecies of Ezekiel were written during and shortly after the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Babylonians, and before Israel, Jerusalem, and the sanctuary were rebuilt the second time, when many Jews of that time as well gathered again in Israel. Why then do you not apply his prophecy of chapter 37 to that time, when the temple was actually built again and in the midst of Israel again? Instead you apply them to 1948, even though the temple is still not rebuilt and in the midst of Israel to date. What makes 1948 a better fulfillment of Eze 37, than the previous rebuilding of Jerusalem and the temple under the Persians? Some thoughtful attempts at answers would be more appreciated than just another personal attack. Thank you.


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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #17 on: Wed Aug 11, 2021 - 13:14:02 »
'The USA will fall at some point.  It is not an important country, eschatologically, beyond sheltering God's people and it will not play a major role in the End Times because it will be a fallen Hot Mess 3rd world country by that time.  It's headed there now.'

Dear Cobalt, how do you know that? Didn't you just make a prophesy? Perhaps it is just speculation,or guessing? At the very minimum how can you say with confidence that the most powerful and financially wealthiest, most Christian nation that ever existed on this earth is not important? It was in large part because of us that Israel came back into existence. Isn't that "eschatologically important"?

But none of us know for sure where the United Staes will be if we will be anywhere at all by the time Jesus returns. Isn't it possible that the USA is the little horn that grew out of the ten horns? After all, Great Britian was part of the Roman empire and we grew out of GB. Now I'm speculating but the truth is, no one seems to know for sure.

Offline Captain Shays

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #18 on: Wed Aug 11, 2021 - 13:18:17 »
'The USA will fall at some point.  It is not an important country, eschatologically, beyond sheltering God's people and it will not play a major role in the End Times because it will be a fallen Hot Mess 3rd world country by that time.  It's headed there now.'

Dear Cobalt, how do you know that? Didn't you just make a prophesy? Perhaps it is just speculation,or guessing? At the very minimum how can you say with confidence that the most powerful and financially wealthiest, most Christian nation that ever existed on this earth is not important? It was in large part because of us that Israel came back into existence. Isn't that "eschatologically important"?

But none of us know for sure where the United Staes will be if we will be anywhere at all by the time Jesus returns. Isn't it possible that the USA is the little horn that grew out of the ten horns? After all, Great Britian was part of the Roman empire and we grew out of GB. Now I'm speculating but the truth is, no one seems to know for sure.

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #19 on: Wed Aug 11, 2021 - 21:20:40 »
God has not left His own in ignorance. The truth is revealed, but surrounded by the many falsehoods of the enemy. For now denial and falsehoods abound, but when the Lord returns those who had the truth will be revealed, and there will be no denying it. Though until then, the majority will accept, promote, and bow to the devil, the beast, and the false prophet.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #20 on: Wed Aug 11, 2021 - 22:41:13 »
The USA does not appear in Biblical prophecy.  Full stop.  10-4, over and out.

-Jarrod

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #21 on: Thu Aug 12, 2021 - 07:09:17 »
The USA does not appear in Biblical prophecy.  Full stop.  10-4, over and out.

-Jarrod

Try as we may, God alone will declare the full stop of all interpretations when He appears to settle all disputes. At that time you and I and all the rest will either be condemned or rewarded for the words we have uttered or written which were truth or lies.

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.



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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #22 on: Thu Aug 12, 2021 - 12:16:11 »
Try as we may, God alone will declare the full stop of all interpretations when He appears to settle all disputes. At that time you and I and all the rest will either be condemned or rewarded for the words we have uttered or written which were truth or lies.

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
That's rich, coming from the most likely person here to churn out a long-form essay on the least important topics.

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #23 on: Fri Aug 13, 2021 - 08:28:09 »
Let everyone understand that you answered none of my questions. Let everyone understand that you have no idea what my intentions are. I do not hate anyone because you have said so. My Grandfather on my mother's side was Jewish, I therefore am part Jewish, I have of course Jewish family, and have had many Jewish friends throughout my life. Again, you do not know me or what my intentions are.

Just declaring everyone who disagrees with you to be of the devil, or biblically ignorant does not, and will not makes such so. If you are not able to answer the questions I have asked, or are not able to explain your views to others without personally attacking them if they disagree with you, then maybe you are the one who needs to apply yourself to a little more bible study.

One more question for you. The prophecies of Ezekiel were written during and shortly after the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by the Babylonians, and before Israel, Jerusalem, and the sanctuary were rebuilt the second time, when many Jews of that time as well gathered again in Israel. Why then do you not apply his prophecy of chapter 37 to that time, when the temple was actually built again and in the midst of Israel again? Instead you apply them to 1948, even though the temple is still not rebuilt and in the midst of Israel to date. What makes 1948 a better fulfillment of Eze 37, than the previous rebuilding of Jerusalem and the temple under the Persians? Some thoughtful attempts at answers would be more appreciated than just another personal attack. Thank you.

You DO NOT want answers.   You only want to argue endlessly and to assert your opinion (which I doubt you yourself are sure of...).

God isn't interested in your opinion - or mine either for that matter.    It is the duty of those who seek His will to find it and follow it.   This can be accomplished by an attitude of servitude and humility and study.

Most self-justified Christians don't even know how to study - falsely assuming as they do that they will be granted knowledge by some sort of spiritual osmosis.

DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.

You know little.  You present many questions.   Find your own answers or stop asking.

The only guideline I can offer at this point is for you to abandon the traditional Christian anti-Semitic attitudes inherent in today's plastic church.   Jews are not your enemy.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
« Last Edit: Fri Aug 13, 2021 - 09:13:00 by Choir Loft »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #24 on: Fri Aug 13, 2021 - 08:38:53 »
The USA does not appear in Biblical prophecy.  Full stop.  10-4, over and out.

-Jarrod

Actually a number of scholars have suggested the Earth Beast of Revelation is representative of the United States. 

Revelation 13:11-15 speaks of the Earth Beast. 

The Earth Beast supports the Sea Beast, which appears earlier in the chapter.  Without going into lengthy explanations, the Sea Beast is NOT a man.  Using the book of Daniel as a template for understanding Biblical references to human-animal hybrids we can see that the Sea Beast isn't a man.  It's the Roman Catholic church.  Horns that come out of the head of a human-animal hybrid represent a leader or succession of leaders.   Thus the several horns on the head of the Sea Beast represent leadership of a succession of Popes.   

It is a rather unique feature of American politics that ONLY TWO horns determine policy.   Only the United States has two political parties.  Other nations have but one or have several (such as Israel, Britain, France, etc.)   Revelation 13 also says the Earth Beast will be able to call down fire from the skies upon people.   What better interpretation can we find in history other than the US dropping atomic bombs on Japan or napalm in Vietnam or targeted smart bombs in our many middle east wars?  In fact, President Truman used THOSE VERY WORDS (fire from the sky) when he warned Japan to surrender prior to unleashing the first atomic bomb upon Hiroshima.  How clear does it have to get?

There's a lot more to include in this, but lack of space prevents a detailed study or explanation.   I recommend the reader take a hard look at Biblical prophecy.   Such a hard look begins with rejecting the typical interpretation of End Times which was, in fact, promoted by the RCC jesuit priest Francisco Ribera in the doctrine of FUTURISM.   Look it up.  Once you've rejected all the dead wood of popular End Times dogma from your list of prophecies you'll being to discover new and really creepy things...

Such as the ACTUAL HISTORICALLY REAL event of the death of one Sea Beast horn (Pope - Rev 13:3 circa 1799) and its replacement by the Italian dictator Benito Mussolini in 1929 (Lateran Treaty).

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
« Last Edit: Fri Aug 13, 2021 - 08:44:05 by Choir Loft »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #25 on: Fri Aug 13, 2021 - 08:57:52 »
'The USA will fall at some point.  It is not an important country, eschatologically, beyond sheltering God's people and it will not play a major role in the End Times because it will be a fallen Hot Mess 3rd world country by that time.  It's headed there now.'

Dear Cobalt, how do you know that? Didn't you just make a prophesy? Perhaps it is just speculation,or guessing? At the very minimum how can you say with confidence that the most powerful and financially wealthiest, most Christian nation that ever existed on this earth is not important? It was in large part because of us that Israel came back into existence. Isn't that "eschatologically important"?

But none of us know for sure where the United Staes will be if we will be anywhere at all by the time Jesus returns. Isn't it possible that the USA is the little horn that grew out of the ten horns? After all, Great Britian was part of the Roman empire and we grew out of GB. Now I'm speculating but the truth is, no one seems to know for sure.

Perverse Biblical interpretation notwithstanding, the United States is already circling the drain of history.

As I write America is engaged in a full retreat from a lengthy war in Afghanistan.   The similarities between the political aberration of Vietnam and Afghanistan are too numerous to be listed here.   We lost the war there, as well as all the other middle east nations, because WE AMERICANS have turned our back upon God. 

The Arab news service Al Jazeera released a statement ten years ago to the effect that 'America can not and will not win its wars in the middle east until and unless the nation fully devotes itself to Jesus Christ.'   That's a rather odd statement coming from a Muslim news source don't you think?  Our enemies know how and why we lose, but we are still lying to ourselves about being the biggest and best bully on the block. 

Since America has turned its back upon God, it is reaping a harvest of death, defeat and financial mismanagement........AGAIN.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to relive it. - George Santayana

When God judged ancient Israel He gave them what they wanted - and REMOVED His protection from them.   This is EXACTLY what is happening in America today.   God is giving us what we want - hedonism, pride, and reliance upon a military that can't win a war against a bunch of camel jockies.   Divine protection has been removed from America and we will suffer the consequences of our own stupidity and stubborn pride.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

America is not the great nation we like to think we are.   We have become a dying empire of fools and humanistic religious types who employ the devices of plastic religion in our churches (1 Samual 4:21).

It is an axiom in our nation's capital that if a man wants to go crazy he should move to Washington DC where it will not be noticed.

There will be no salvation for America.

Every expert worth his salt has declared America has crossed a line from which it cannot return.  We have crossed the Rubicon figuratively and literally.  America will never be great again, BUT those who humbly and sincerely repent of their SINs and WICKEDNESS before God will find His forgiveness and guidance and hope in their lives.  They shall live as those in the eye of a hurricane when the winds and storms of history sweep away what remains of the American global empire.  Indeed, it is already in an advanced state of collapse.

God shall wipe America the way a man wipes a plate - wiping it and turning it upside down. (2 Kings 21:13)  Watch and learn, pilgrim.

that's me, hollering from the choir  loft...

« Last Edit: Fri Aug 13, 2021 - 09:14:54 by Choir Loft »

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #26 on: Fri Aug 13, 2021 - 11:33:11 »
That's rich, coming from the most likely person here to churn out a long-form essay on the least important topics.

Here we are, enlighten us, tell us what is really important. Or why the topics I address are in fact not important. Which would mean of course that the threads themselves I am addressing are not important. Is this the case? Are most of the threads on these boards unimportant?

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #27 on: Fri Aug 13, 2021 - 11:43:28 »
You DO NOT want answers.   You only want to argue endlessly and to assert your opinion (which I doubt you yourself are sure of...).

God isn't interested in your opinion - or mine either for that matter.    It is the duty of those who seek His will to find it and follow it.   This can be accomplished by an attitude of servitude and humility and study.

Most self-justified Christians don't even know how to study - falsely assuming as they do that they will be granted knowledge by some sort of spiritual osmosis.

DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.

You know little.  You present many questions.   Find your own answers or stop asking.

The only guideline I can offer at this point is for you to abandon the traditional Christian anti-Semitic attitudes inherent in today's plastic church.   Jews are not your enemy.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

OK. Here is some of what I have found. One of those lengthy posts of mine Wycliffes_Shillelagh really appreciates.

The Church is now the Israel of God.  Thus has she been given the attributes of the same.

Exod 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: 6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

1 Pet 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

1 Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.


Israel was said to be a peculiar people of God, a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.  The Church of Christ is given all the same attributes.

Hosea 1:9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. 10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Rom 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. 26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


Though many of Israel would not be God’s people, yet the number of the children of Israel would be as the sand of the sea.  This would be accomplished when those who were not called God’s people, should be called the sons of the living God.  The Church is composed of those who were not the people of God, who became the people of God. They are the children of promise that are counted for the seed, which are the children of God. They are no longer strangers, but fellow citizens with the saints and of the very household of God.

Deut 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

1 Pet 1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.


As Israel was called to be a holy people unto God, so the Church is called to be a holy people unto God.

Deut 4:20 But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.

Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,


As the Jews were a people of inheritance to God, so the Church are a people of inheritance to God.

Jer 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.


As the Lord was the shepherd of Israel, so the Lord is the shepherd of the Church.

Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


As Israel was saved with everlasting salvation, so the Church is saved with eternal salvation.

Lev 26:11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you. 12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

Exod 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary;that I may dwell among them.

Exod 29:44 And I will sanctify the tabernacle of the congregation, and the altar: I will sanctify also both Aaron and his sons, to minister to me in the priest's office. 45 And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their God. 46 And they shall know that I am the LORD their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am the LORD their God.

John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


As God placed His temple in the midst of Israel, that He might dwell among them, so Christ became the living temple and dwelt among us.  The Church is connected to God through His Son Jesus Christ in a way far superior to that capable of being so during the old covenant dispensation. God became one of us, and therefore the living temple of God in human flesh, of which the Church is the body.  Now all who are in Christ are truly literal flesh and blood children of God.

Isa 54: 5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Hosea 2:19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.

Jer 6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate woman.

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

2 Cor 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. 4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.


As God was an husband to the nation of Israel, so now is the Church married to God in and through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  Again it is in a far superior way that the Church is betrothed to God in Christ. As a man and a woman become one flesh in marriage, so humanity and God became one flesh in and through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ who literally became one with our human flesh in order to live the life we could not live, and die the death we could not die. 

Thus all who are in Christ are the literal flesh and blood children of God.  These things the old covenant nation of Israel only pointed to, have been accomplished upon us, the new covenant Israel of God.  PRAISE GOD’S PURE, RIGHTEOUS, HOLY, UNDEFILED, AND AWESOME NAME IN AND THROUGH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST FOR OUR UNDESERVED SALVATION AND EXALTATION AS THE LITERAL SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD.

Now all who are in Christ are the Israel of God, whether Jew or Gentile.  Now all those who reject the same are none of His, and have no part of the kingdom of God or the gospel of the same, whether Jew or Gentile.

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
« Last Edit: Fri Aug 13, 2021 - 11:46:09 by Amo »

Offline Choir Loft

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #28 on: Sun Aug 15, 2021 - 10:34:20 »
OK. Here is some of what I have found. One of those lengthy posts of mine Wycliffes_Shillelagh really appreciates.

The Church is now the Israel of God.  Thus has she been given the attributes of the same.

....

The quote above refers to the doctrine called REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY or SUPERSESSIONISM. 

Major protestant theologians have rejected the idea mostly because it is anti-Semitic in nature.

The doctrine originated with the Roman Catholic Church, although the name of the ideology has been modified over time.

The basic idea is that the Bible ought to be ripped in half and the Old Testament thrown out.   Nothing could be more demonic or further from contextual understanding of God's Word.

God never abandoned His people Israel - either as individual Jews, Jewish communities or the modern State of Israel.   Jew haters can deny the political and spiritual reality of the modern State of Israel but they cannot shut their eyes to its existence in the world. 

Romans 2:29 is a brief statement by St. Paul saying a Jewish or gentile believe IS A JEW in the eyes of God.   In other words, church membership isn't worth the paper its written on.  Church membership has no currency in the Kingdom of Heaven.  Revelation 18:4 even issues a warning that believers in Christ should abandon the church !!!

New Jerusalem mentioned in the Bible is a Jewish city.   It isn't new Rome or new Washington or new-any-gentile-town. 

Jesus IS a Jew and those who are joined to Him are members of His JEWISH body.   The idea that the church inherited any part of Christ's body is absurd for it is the church that has murdered and oppressed more Jews and saints than all other worldly religions combined.

God has an issue with the church.   Look around and see.  It is Ichabod (1 Samuel 4:21)

The Holy Spirit (Ruach Ha-Kodesh) has departed from major Christian denominations in America because they've rejected it.  Most of them have declared the Holy Bible is NOT God's inspired word and that its just another work of human literature.  Is this consistent with behavior of an organization that's supposed to represent Christ on earth - or is spiritual Israel.   

The church cannot be spiritual Israel when it has actively persecuted Jews and rejected God's word.

think about it

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #29 on: Sun Aug 15, 2021 - 11:38:28 »
The quote above refers to the doctrine called REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY or SUPERSESSIONISM. 

Major protestant theologians have rejected the idea mostly because it is anti-Semitic in nature.

The doctrine originated with the Roman Catholic Church, although the name of the ideology has been modified over time.

The basic idea is that the Bible ought to be ripped in half and the Old Testament thrown out.   Nothing could be more demonic or further from contextual understanding of God's Word.

God never abandoned His people Israel - either as individual Jews, Jewish communities or the modern State of Israel.   Jew haters can deny the political and spiritual reality of the modern State of Israel but they cannot shut their eyes to its existence in the world. 

Romans 2:29 is a brief statement by St. Paul saying a Jewish or gentile believe IS A JEW in the eyes of God.   In other words, church membership isn't worth the paper its written on.  Church membership has no currency in the Kingdom of Heaven.  Revelation 18:4 even issues a warning that believers in Christ should abandon the church !!!

New Jerusalem mentioned in the Bible is a Jewish city.   It isn't new Rome or new Washington or new-any-gentile-town. 

Jesus IS a Jew and those who are joined to Him are members of His JEWISH body.   The idea that the church inherited any part of Christ's body is absurd for it is the church that has murdered and oppressed more Jews and saints than all other worldly religions combined.

God has an issue with the church.   Look around and see.  It is Ichabod (1 Samuel 4:21)

The Holy Spirit (Ruach Ha-Kodesh) has departed from major Christian denominations in America because they've rejected it.  Most of them have declared the Holy Bible is NOT God's inspired word and that its just another work of human literature.  Is this consistent with behavior of an organization that's supposed to represent Christ on earth - or is spiritual Israel.   

The church cannot be spiritual Israel when it has actively persecuted Jews and rejected God's word.

think about it

that's me, hollering from the choir loft....

That is a big fat negative. Your position and that of the Catholic Church, are opposite extremes of real replacement theology. You both separate that which our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ came to make one.

Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Both of your teachings separate that which Christ came to make one. You are the replacement theologists. The remnant of Israel accepted their Messiah Jesus Christ, formed the New covenant church and Israel of God, composed of all truly in Christ Jesus our Lord. All of whom whether Jew or Gentile, are children of Abraham, according to his faith.

Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.


You declare those circumcised merely of the flesh to be the Israel of God, because they have formed a Jewish state again, in denial of the above truths of scripture. Exalting many of those who to this very day reject Jesus Christ as their Messiah, as the true Israel of God. This is pure unadulterated replacement theology, in direct contradiction to NT teaching and the few verse I have shared concerning the same. Do you not? If not please expound upon how many denying Christ can compose the true Israel of God? Thank you.


Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #30 on: Sun Aug 15, 2021 - 20:17:38 »
Actually a number of scholars have suggested the Earth Beast of Revelation is representative of the United States.
You should hit "unsubscribe" on all of them.

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #31 on: Sun Aug 15, 2021 - 20:20:45 »
Here we are, enlighten us, tell us what is really important.
The simple things that do not require argument.  Don't murder.  No adultery. Etc.

Or why the topics I address are in fact not important.
They mostly fall into the category of "doubtful disputations."

Which would mean of course that the threads themselves I am addressing are not important. Is this the case?
Yes.

Are most of the threads on these boards unimportant?
Yes.

-Jarrod

Offline Amo

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #32 on: Sun Aug 15, 2021 - 22:56:21 »
The simple things that do not require argument.  Don't murder.  No adultery. Etc.
They mostly fall into the category of "doubtful disputations."
Yes.
Yes.

-Jarrod

I think I understand. What scriptures Wycliffes -Shillelagh thinks are important are important, all else is doubtful disputation.

What about -

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Jud 1:3  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. 4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. 6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.


Read your bible, the words of the prophets, Jesus, and His apostles. And you will be reading their non stop testimony of the truth and refutations of error. Which they pursued to the point of literal death at the hands of those who did not want to hear the truth, or decidedly fought against it. Are we discussing what to eat, or holidays here? Do you deny the following words?

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

2Pe 1:16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.


Just what are you calling doubtful disputations, and unimportant scripture or prophecy?


Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #33 on: Mon Aug 16, 2021 - 03:55:42 »
The quote above refers to the doctrine called REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY or SUPERSESSIONISM. 
Who CARES what people of religion called them? God's children certainly do not, we call it the truth.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Acts 24:5~"For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:"
A pestilence fellow.....a mover of sedition...belonging to a sect called Nazarenes, etc.

Guess who was behind this name labeling? Well, well, would you not know......the Jews! Who were the most obstinate folks toward the truth in Paul's, days! Now, it is those folks who are trying to REPLACE THE CHURCH with natural unbelieving Israel~trying to say we are stepchildren and they (Jews) regardless if they show faith in Jesus Christ or not~ are the rightful heirs! When the truth is: both are ONE people making up the spiritual temple of God known throughout the world BY THEIR FAITH and without faith, we DO NOT recognize them as God's children be they Gentiles or Jews but children of the Devil!
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 10:34:20
Major protestant theologians have rejected the idea mostly because it is anti-Semitic in nature.
Who cares what MOST follow~God's children do not. Saying a doctrine is anti-Semitic just because we refuse to say amen to others false doctrine, does not carry any weight, nor does it proves a doctrine right or wrong, the scriptures does both~we will go with God's testimony concerning WHO are the true children of God and to WHOM are the sure mercies of David directed toward.
Quote from: Paul a JEW BY NATURE
Acts 13:26-39~"Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses."
Major protestant theologians are preaching lies concerning natural Israel promising them the sure mercies of David when THAT PROMISE has been fulfilled in Christ~and ALL that fear God and believe are justified from all of their sins~without fear and faith in God NO MAN has a right to think they are children of God and we should not give anyone a false hope of causing them to believe just because they may be a Jews, THEY are God's chosen people~even in the OT that was not so!
Quote from: Paul a JEW BY NATURE
Romans 9:6-8~"Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
Be they Jews or Gentiles.
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 10:34:20
The doctrine originated with the Roman Catholic Church
No, you are wrong~let me show you where it truly originated from:
Quote from: Paul a JEW BY NATURE
Acts 22:17-23~"And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance; And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me. And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee: And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him. And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles. And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live. And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air,"
Need to say I more? God has spoken let every man shut his mouth and listen!
Quote from: Choir Loft on: Yesterday at 10:34:20
The basic idea is that the Bible ought to be ripped in half and the Old Testament thrown out.   Nothing could be more demonic or further from contextual understanding of God's Word.
What is more demonic is not listening to NT Apostles who were BORN AGAIN JEWS interpreting their OT scriptures for us IN the NT~without the NT Jesus Christ would have been an imposter and his followers a true false sect against the Jews.

"contextual understanding of God's Word"~comes by using ALL SCRIPTURES, and in this doctrine under consideration~ mainly the NT as it interprets the OT for us since most of the OT was kept HIDDEN until the death of Jesus Christ and the time of TRUE BIBLICAL REFORMATION took place. Read Ephesians 2:11-3:11; Hebrews 9:10, etc., for a starter.

I could keep going but time and space said to stop for now. You need to learn your bible before speaking and stop parroting others' doctrine of lies concerning unbelieving Jews who reject Jesus Christ.
« Last Edit: Mon Aug 16, 2021 - 04:00:40 by RB »

Offline RB

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Re: The USA In Bible Prophecy/End Times
« Reply #34 on: Mon Aug 16, 2021 - 06:31:10 »
Quote
Isaiah 55:3~ Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
The good life~a free feast of fat things~ is obtained by going to God to hear His word. Not by following major protestant theologians.
 
We must incline our ear, which is to hearken diligently or to have focused hearing. We must shut down our thoughts, and humbly turn our hearing to His revelation. We must leave our thoughts and ways and those other voices and go to Him to hear His true offer and ways.

Isaiah foretold a gospel feast of fat things of refined wine and marrow (Isaiah 25:6-8).

If a person will humble themselves, seek God, and hear His word, He will share secrets. God will show His covenant promises to those that properly pursue Him (Psalms 25:14).

The satisfying life of walking with God depends on hearing and believing the gospel. But we must repent and seek Him with all our heart and no less (Jeremiah 29:10-14). We must train ourselves to listen, learn, and change far more than most Christians.

The everlasting covenant and sure mercies of David are Jesus Christ~the seed of David. Our Jesus, the true shepherd of the sheep, came to bring abundant life (John 10:10).

God does not make this covenant due to faith, but reveals it to faith (Romans 1:15-16). He had made it with Himself in eternity, for even Jacob knew about it (Genesis 49:10).

He made it with David, and it was known well 300 years before Isaiah (Psalms 89:1-4).

He makes it with us by the gospel when we claim it and are baptized into this David.

The sure mercies of David are God’s promise to David that his Son would reign forever. There is one thing you can count on~God’s promise to David for his Son as king. We have a King unlike any other~called a leader and commander.

God’s promised mercies to David (Christ) are so sure He raised Him (Acts 13:34). There is one king and leader that Israel and God loved – and it was David of Bethlehem. His spirit from the start was exceptional; his name was much set by (Ist Samuel 18:1-30). Everyone loved David for his wonderful combination of character traits and conduct.

Psalm 89:1 describes the sure mercies of David in a chorus that needs explanation. These are not general mercies and faithfulness we observe and give thanks for daily. This is God’s mercy in Christ~that is so clearly revealed in the NT of Jesus Christ. This mercy is equally given to Jews and Gentiles WITHIN THIS dispensation, or TIMES OF CHRIST which will end at his second coming when it will be on VISIBLE DISPLAY FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE. When Christ returns and the resurrection (the rapture and resurrection is ONE AND THE SAME EVENT) of BOTH the righteous and the wicked then TIME shall be NO MORE. 
 
« Last Edit: Mon Aug 16, 2021 - 06:34:05 by RB »