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Author Topic: The Whore Of Babylon  (Read 15637 times)

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Offline LightHammer

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #70 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 17:10:18 »
The woman was neither Islam nor the Catholic Church nor any of that.

It was very simply

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies [are] upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #70 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 17:10:18 »

raggthyme7

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #71 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 19:55:02 »
The woman was neither Islam nor the Catholic Church nor any of that.

It was very simply

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies [are] upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)


 ::nodding::

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #71 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 19:55:02 »

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #72 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 20:28:02 »
The woman was neither Islam nor the Catholic Church nor any of that.

It was very simply

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies [are] upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)


Your bible disagrees with the King James bible, which one is correct "are" or "shall"?

Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #73 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 20:32:05 »
It is not our fault that Rome, the pope and the virgin apparitions keep fulfilling the wrong kind of prophecies.  If the historical data is in agreement, ... don't blame us.

Dave Hunt had 9 clues?  Only 9?  There are over 60 clues all in agreement who the wh*re of Revelation is (ROME).

If the shoe fits, maybe it is Cinderella.

Peace


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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #73 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 20:32:05 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

raggthyme7

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #74 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 21:15:28 »
The woman was neither Islam nor the Catholic Church nor any of that.

It was very simply

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies [are] upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)


Your bible disagrees with the King James bible, which one is correct "are" or "shall"?

Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Actually, [shall lie] is not in the original language...

And 2532 their 846 dead bodies 4430 [shall lie] in 1909 the street 4113 of the great 3173 city 4172, which 3748 spiritually 4153 is called 2564 Sodom 4670 and 2532 Egypt 125, where 3699 also 2532 our 2257 Lord 2962 was crucified 4717.

ἐπί
Transliteration
epi
Pronunciation
e-pē' (Key)

Part of Speech
preposition
Root Word (Etymology)
A root
TDNT Reference
n/a
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) upon, on, at, by, before
2) of position, on, at, by, over, against
3) to, over, on, at, across, against


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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #74 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 21:15:28 »



Offline EDEN2004

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #75 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 21:29:42 »
The woman was neither Islam nor the Catholic Church nor any of that.

It was very simply

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies [are] upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)


Your bible disagrees with the King James bible, which one is correct "are" or "shall"?

Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Actually, [shall lie] is not in the original language...

And 2532 their 846 dead bodies 4430 [shall lie] in 1909 the street 4113 of the great 3173 city 4172, which 3748 spiritually 4153 is called 2564 Sodom 4670 and 2532 Egypt 125, where 3699 also 2532 our 2257 Lord 2962 was crucified 4717.

ἐπί
Transliteration
epi
Pronunciation
e-pē' (Key)

Part of Speech
preposition
Root Word (Etymology)
A root
TDNT Reference
n/a
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) upon, on, at, by, before
2) of position, on, at, by, over, against
3) to, over, on, at, across, against



There are no original manuscripts in existence today, only copies. So how does one know what was in the original manuscripts?

raggthyme7

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #76 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 21:43:59 »
The woman was neither Islam nor the Catholic Church nor any of that.

It was very simply

Revelation 11:8
and their dead bodies [are] upon the broad-place of the great city (that is called spiritually Sodom, and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified,)


Your bible disagrees with the King James bible, which one is correct "are" or "shall"?

Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Actually, [shall lie] is not in the original language...

And 2532 their 846 dead bodies 4430 [shall lie] in 1909 the street 4113 of the great 3173 city 4172, which 3748 spiritually 4153 is called 2564 Sodom 4670 and 2532 Egypt 125, where 3699 also 2532 our 2257 Lord 2962 was crucified 4717.

ἐπί
Transliteration
epi
Pronunciation
e-pē' (Key)

Part of Speech
preposition
Root Word (Etymology)
A root
TDNT Reference
n/a
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) upon, on, at, by, before
2) of position, on, at, by, over, against
3) to, over, on, at, across, against



There are no original manuscripts in existence today, only copies. So how does one know what was in the original manuscripts?

I'm not sure what you are getting at. The "shall lie" is in [ ] which means it's not in the original language.. the translators added the words for clarification. A simple search in a concordance will show you that (as I have shown above). So to answer your question, we really don't know whether it should say "are" or "shall."

It actually says

And their dead bodies upon.... Young's literal translation adds [are].
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 21:51:43 by raggthyme7 »

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #77 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 21:55:09 »

I'm not sure what you are getting at. The "shall lie" is in [ ] which means it's not in the original language.. the translators added the words for clarification. A simple search in a concordance will show you that (as I have shown above). So to answer your question, we really don't know whether it should say "are" or "shall."

My point is that no one knows what the original language says because the original manuscripts don't exist. God said he would preserve his word, and he did preserved his word in the King James bible. You can put 100% of your trust in that book. But this discussion is not related to the original topic.

raggthyme7

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #78 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 22:02:48 »

I'm not sure what you are getting at. The "shall lie" is in [ ] which means it's not in the original language.. the translators added the words for clarification. A simple search in a concordance will show you that (as I have shown above). So to answer your question, we really don't know whether it should say "are" or "shall."

My point is that no one knows what the original language says because the original manuscripts don't exist. God said he would preserve his word, and he did preserved his word in the King James bible. You can put 100% of your trust in that book. But this discussion is not related to the original topic.

Ahh, I see now what your angle is. I prefer the KJV too, but I know it also has mistakes. But you're right, we should get back to the topic. I agree with LightHammer here, the wh*re was Jerusalem (Old covenant Israel) because God was a husband to her but she was not faithful to Him.

Rev 11:8 and 1 Pet 5:13 confirms this.

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #79 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 22:09:32 »

I'm not sure what you are getting at. The "shall lie" is in [ ] which means it's not in the original language.. the translators added the words for clarification. A simple search in a concordance will show you that (as I have shown above). So to answer your question, we really don't know whether it should say "are" or "shall."

My point is that no one knows what the original language says because the original manuscripts don't exist. God said he would preserve his word, and he did preserved his word in the King James bible. You can put 100% of your trust in that book. But this discussion is not related to the original topic.

Ahh, I see now what your angle is. I prefer the KJV too, but I know it also has mistakes. But you're right, we should get back to the topic. I agree with LightHammer here, the wh*re was Jerusalem (Old covenant Israel) because God was a husband to her but she was not faithful to Him.

I would love to discuss the mistakes... (lol) with you sometime. I agree that Jerusalem (the Children of Israel) was the whore and that she still is, only she has multiplied.

raggthyme7

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #80 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 22:25:08 »

I'm not sure what you are getting at. The "shall lie" is in [ ] which means it's not in the original language.. the translators added the words for clarification. A simple search in a concordance will show you that (as I have shown above). So to answer your question, we really don't know whether it should say "are" or "shall."

My point is that no one knows what the original language says because the original manuscripts don't exist. God said he would preserve his word, and he did preserved his word in the King James bible. You can put 100% of your trust in that book. But this discussion is not related to the original topic.

Ahh, I see now what your angle is. I prefer the KJV too, but I know it also has mistakes. But you're right, we should get back to the topic. I agree with LightHammer here, the wh*re was Jerusalem (Old covenant Israel) because God was a husband to her but she was not faithful to Him.

I would love to discuss the mistakes... (lol) with you sometime. I agree that Jerusalem (the Children of Israel) was the wh*re and that she still is, only she has multiplied.

So you are not a Christian Zionist?

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #81 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 23:25:21 »

I'm not sure what you are getting at. The "shall lie" is in [ ] which means it's not in the original language.. the translators added the words for clarification. A simple search in a concordance will show you that (as I have shown above). So to answer your question, we really don't know whether it should say "are" or "shall."

My point is that no one knows what the original language says because the original manuscripts don't exist. God said he would preserve his word, and he did preserved his word in the King James bible. You can put 100% of your trust in that book. But this discussion is not related to the original topic.

Ahh, I see now what your angle is. I prefer the KJV too, but I know it also has mistakes. But you're right, we should get back to the topic. I agree with LightHammer here, the wh*re was Jerusalem (Old covenant Israel) because God was a husband to her but she was not faithful to Him.

I would love to discuss the mistakes... (lol) with you sometime. I agree that Jerusalem (the Children of Israel) was the wh*re and that she still is, only she has multiplied.

So you are not a Christian Zionist?

I'm not sure what that is, but I don't think that I am. I just read the bible and believe what it says. My beliefs are usually different than most. What is a Christian Zionist?

raggthyme7

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #82 on: Fri Jun 15, 2012 - 23:56:27 »

I'm not sure what you are getting at. The "shall lie" is in [ ] which means it's not in the original language.. the translators added the words for clarification. A simple search in a concordance will show you that (as I have shown above). So to answer your question, we really don't know whether it should say "are" or "shall."

My point is that no one knows what the original language says because the original manuscripts don't exist. God said he would preserve his word, and he did preserved his word in the King James bible. You can put 100% of your trust in that book. But this discussion is not related to the original topic.

Ahh, I see now what your angle is. I prefer the KJV too, but I know it also has mistakes. But you're right, we should get back to the topic. I agree with LightHammer here, the wh*re was Jerusalem (Old covenant Israel) because God was a husband to her but she was not faithful to Him.

I would love to discuss the mistakes... (lol) with you sometime. I agree that Jerusalem (the Children of Israel) was the wh*re and that she still is, only she has multiplied.

So you are not a Christian Zionist?

I'm not sure what that is, but I don't think that I am. I just read the bible and believe what it says. My beliefs are usually different than most. What is a Christian Zionist?

This is just one of many definitions I'm sure.. taken from wikipedia

Christian Zionism is a belief among some Christians that the return of the Jews to the Holy Land, and the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, is in accordance with Biblical prophecy. It overlaps with, but is distinct from, the nineteenth century movement for the Restoration of the Jews to the Holy Land, which had both religiously and politically motivated supporters. The term Christian Zionism was popularized in the mid-twentieth century. Prior to that time the common term was Restorationism.[1]
Some Christian Zionists believe that the "ingathering" of Jews in Israel is a prerequisite for the Second Coming of Jesus. This belief is primarily, though not exclusively, associated with Christian Dispensationalism. The idea that Christians should actively support a Jewish return to the Land of Israel, along with the parallel idea that the Jews ought to be encouraged to become Christian, as a means fulfilling a Biblical prophecy has been common in Protestant circles since the Reformation.[2][3][4]
Many Christian Zionists believe that the people of Israel remain part of the chosen people of God, along with the "ingrafted" Gentile Christians[Romans 11:17-24] (dual-covenant theology). This has the added effect of turning Christian Zionists into supporters of Jewish Zionism.

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #83 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 08:00:40 »
Rev 17:18 And the woman which you saw (the wh*re Babylon) is that great city, which reigns (present tense, right there in 90AD) over the kings of the earth.

There is only one that fits that description, ROME.

Dan 9:26 ... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ...

The prince that is to come is the Antichrist and again, the ones that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple were the ROMANS.  The ROMANS are the people of the Antichrist.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

ROME happens to sit on 7 mountains.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the wh*re sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The Vatican is my witness.  The coin of Pope Leo 12th, shows the Catholic Church sitting on planet earth with the inscription, the whole world is her chair.



The Vatican has fulfilled all the prophecies of the Harlot Babylon, all of them, faithfully.

"Rome" in Hebrew adds up to 666

"Roman man" in Hebrew adds up to 666

Listen to history !

Offline matt1

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #84 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 09:15:04 »
Pagan Rome was an evil persecutor of Christianity
Christians were terrified of Nero and saw him as a type of Antichrist

However, there is nothing in the book of Revelation that says The Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon
There is nothing that says the Antichrist is a Christian Church

Our Lord said the Gates of Hell shall not preavail against his Church
After the death of Christ and until the 16th century, the only Christian Church on the face of the earth was Catholic, to say that the Church is the Whore of Babylon would mean the original Church that Christ founded vannished for over 1500 years
and everyone converted to the Antichrist religion.

No, the Catholic Church is the one Church that dates back to Christ
If you read what the first 2 and 3rd century Christians believed you will find out it was very Catholic (in regard to the seven Sacraments)

You will find there were no protestants in the first 14 + centuries
To say the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon is to say that Christ was unfaithful to his promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail against his Church

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #85 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 09:44:37 »
Rev 17:18 And the woman which you saw (the wh*re Babylon) is that great city, which reigns (present tense, right there in 90AD) over the kings of the earth.

There is only one that fits that description, ROME.

Dan 9:26 ... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ...

The prince that is to come is the Antichrist and again, the ones that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple were the ROMANS.  The ROMANS are the people of the Antichrist.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

ROME happens to sit on 7 mountains.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the wh*re sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The Vatican is my witness.  The coin of Pope Leo 12th, shows the Catholic Church sitting on planet earth with the inscription, the whole world is her chair.



The Vatican has fulfilled all the prophecies of the Harlot Babylon, all of them, faithfully.

"Rome" in Hebrew adds up to 666

"Roman man" in Hebrew adds up to 666

Listen to history !



Talking Donkey, consider this.

Rev 17:1  And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
Rev 17:2  With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Rev 17:3  So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
Rev 17:4  And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5  And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

"The whore" sits (has dominion) on many waters. Waters are not people, waters are religions. Think of Joh_4:10, Eph_5:26, 1Jn_5:8 and Rev_12:15. According to James, water can be bitter or sweet, salt or fresh. One water promotes eternal life and the rest promote works salvation, bondage and death. "The whore" has dominion over many religions (waters ).

The kings of the earth (the leadership of the world) have fornicated with "the whore". Fornicate means to unite together and become as one flesh in an illegitimate relationship. As a result of this relationship the inhabitants of the earth have become drunk.... they have lost their faculties, they have no spiritual discernment.

The woman sits on the beast, which means she controls of the beast (governments). On the woman's ("the whore") forehead was written "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS". "The Whore" is the mother of harlots.... this means she has harlot children.

This entire passage is talking about the judgement of the "MOTHER OF HARLOTS" NOT her children. I agree that Rome is a harlot, but she is not the mother harlot ("the whore") because she is a daughter of the whore. Israel is the "MOTHER OF HARLOTS".

Rev 17:18  And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

This passage is talking about the same woman.... that great city is Jerusalem where our Lord was crucified.

Rev_11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

The whole world including Rome will turn against "the whore" and eat her flesh and burn her with fire!

Rev 17:16  And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.


Offline LightHammer

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #86 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 10:12:24 »
Rev 17:18 And the woman which you saw (the wh*re Babylon) is that great city, which reigns (present tense, right there in 90AD) over the kings of the earth.

There is only one that fits that description, ROME.

Dan 9:26 ... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ...

The prince that is to come is the Antichrist and again, the ones that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple were the ROMANS.  The ROMANS are the people of the Antichrist.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

ROME happens to sit on 7 mountains.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the wh*re sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The Vatican is my witness.  The coin of Pope Leo 12th, shows the Catholic Church sitting on planet earth with the inscription, the whole world is her chair.



The Vatican has fulfilled all the prophecies of the Harlot Babylon, all of them, faithfully.

"Rome" in Hebrew adds up to 666

"Roman man" in Hebrew adds up to 666

Listen to history !



You realize of course that Revelation was written in Koine Greek right? You realize that the Beast in question had already received and recovered from its mortal wound and was on its 6th ruler when St. John actually wrote his work?

Furthermore I'm sure you know that the majority of Jews at the time spoke Greek. So your use of Hebrew to try and force Rome into the prophecy is faulty. The cryptic warning in Hebrew would fail to reach 98% of the people who would actually come to read the epistle.

Showing pictures of coins and all that jazz is entertaining but with one verse I have proven the Mother of Harlots was an indictment against Jerusalem effectively reducing your feeble and poor exegesis to a pile of rubble.

But carry on though. I need something entertaining to look at while I'm en route.

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #87 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 10:31:58 »
Rev 17:18 And the woman which you saw (the wh*re Babylon) is that great city, which reigns (present tense, right there in 90AD) over the kings of the earth.

There is only one that fits that description, ROME.

Dan 9:26 ... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ...

The prince that is to come is the Antichrist and again, the ones that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple were the ROMANS.  The ROMANS are the people of the Antichrist.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

ROME happens to sit on 7 mountains.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the wh*re sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The Vatican is my witness.  The coin of Pope Leo 12th, shows the Catholic Church sitting on planet earth with the inscription, the whole world is her chair.



The Vatican has fulfilled all the prophecies of the Harlot Babylon, all of them, faithfully.

"Rome" in Hebrew adds up to 666

"Roman man" in Hebrew adds up to 666

Listen to history !



You realize of course that Revelation was written in Koine Greek right? You realize that the Beast in question had already received and recovered from its mortal wound and was on its 6th ruler when St. John actually wrote his work?

Furthermore I'm sure you know that the majority of Jews at the time spoke Greek. So your use of Hebrew to try and force Rome into the prophecy is faulty. The cryptic warning in Hebrew would fail to reach 98% of the people who would actually come to read the epistle.

Showing pictures of coins and all that jazz is entertaining but with one verse I have proven the Mother of Harlots was an indictment against Jerusalem effectively reducing your feeble and poor exegesis to a pile of rubble.

But carry on though. I need something entertaining to look at while I'm en route.



I don't see how your one verse proved anything accept that Young's literal translation is a very inaccurate translation.

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #88 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 10:39:56 »
there is nothing in the book of Revelation that says The Catholic Church is the wh*re of Babylon

"Woman" in the Bible, is a symbol for a city (Jerusalem, Samaria, Sodom, see Eze 16), a nation (Israel in Jer 3:20 and Babylon in Zec 2:7 and Isa 47:1), or a church, the bride of Christ (Rev 21:2, 9-10 and 2 Cor 11:2) .  The Vatican is all three, a church, a city and a nation.

The country is called (see its flag) Vatican City State (Church-City-Nation). The church of Rome is indeed a "woman" according to God's terminology.

     The term "Jezebel" means "celibate, sexually pure, without cohabitation, chaste" depending on which Bible dictionary you have.  All those terms mean the same, that she does not share her bed with anyone.  But she is a harlot.  Picture a prostitute named "Chastity" and you will get the point.  God is not the God of confusion.  Which city, which nation or which church do you know that is totally celibate?  There is only one answer, the church-city-nation of Rome, the Vatican is the only one on the planet that is totally celibate.

     The word "Vatican" comes from the Latin "Vaticanus". Vaticanus is really two Latin words, "vatic" and "anus".   Vatic means prophet (see Webster) and anus (see Latin-English dictionary) has various meanings in Latin.  It means annular, circular, center and even hill.  It also means rectum (this prophet does not have a mouth, it is the rectum of prophecy because nothing good comes out of it).   But in Latin, it also means "old woman", check it out in any Latin-English dictionary.  So vatic-anus means prophetess (prophet-old woman), a veteran one, one with many years of experience.  

     The catholic eucharist is called the "host" which comes from the Latin "hostia", which means "sacrifice" (see Webster).  To eat the host is to eat the sacrifice.  The Catholic Church offers the sacrifice of the mass to the dead to get them out of purgatory, to the saints in thanksgiving, to Mary and to God.  With that in mind, now read the following:
 
REV 2:18  And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things says the Son of God, who has his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass; 19  I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20  Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou suffer that woman Jezebel, which calls herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

     That last verse speaks of a celibate church-city-nation that calls herself prophetess (Vaticanus) and that seduces God's servants (many Catholics are God's servants) to eat the "host", the sacrifice that many times is offered to Mary, for dead people, to saints, etc..  As I said before, God is not the God of confusion.  The only nation and only city that is celibate on this planet is the Vatican.


There is nothing that says the Antichrist is a Christian Church

Wrong again.  Many people in Babylon are Christians.  Just like God's people Israel were captured and became slaves in Babylon, Rome captures God's church during the middle ages and even today.

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, MY PEOPLE !!!!, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

No, the Catholic Church is the one Church that dates back to Christ If you read what the first 2 and 3rd century Christians believed you will find out it was very Catholic (in regard to the seven Sacraments) You will find there were no protestants in the first 14 + centuries
To say the Catholic Church is the wh*re of Babylon is to say that Christ was unfaithful to his promise that the gates of Hell would not prevail against his Church

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Again, the Antichristians were once in the true doctrine of the Lord, but they came out of that.  The only 666 verse in the NT is this one.

Jn 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

How did the romans go back and walked no more with the Lord?  How?  God told us in his letter to the ROMANS!

Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Worshiping Mary and saints and the host... that's how.

God gave clues to describe the Antichrist and Babylon the Great, very good clues indeed.

Peace



Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #89 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 10:44:38 »
In Revelation 17:5 the whore Babylon has a name in her forehead: "MYSTERY, Babylon the Great and mother of harlots and abomination of the earth".  The name "MYSTERY" is fulfilled by the Vatican in a couple of ways.  First of all, the religion of the old city Babylon was characterized by the many mysteries.  Second, the Vatican Religion is also characterized by the many mysteries.  In Roman Catholicism, everything is a mystery, the mystery of the resurrection, the mystery of the assumption, the mystery of this and that.  The Catholic Encyclopedia defines "mystery" as "all the catholic truths".  She is indeed full of mysteries.  The very term "Latin" means "hidden". 

     She also fulfills the idea that the true identity of the woman is hidden from the world, it is a mystery.  This is again imitating God because God's church was a mystery during the Old Testament times (see Eph 1:9; 3:3-10; 5:32 and Colos. 1:26-27).   The Vatican fulfills this prophecy also because practically no one sees the Vatican as the headquarters of Satan.  As it is written, the whole world is deceived by Satan.   During the reformation,
that knowledge became public and many died for spreading that message, but today, collective amnesia is the rule.  Truly the whole world is drunk with the wine of her fornication.  It is written: he deceives the whole world (Rev 12:9).  Yet, amazingly, everyone thinks "the whole world but me, surely not me".

Why is it that people wont pay attention to the clues given by God?



Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #90 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 10:49:50 »
Looking for the Antichrist?  Here he is.


1.    Look for someone that takes the place of Christ claiming to be the high priest of the church, the rock of foundation of the church and the head of the church (Isa 14:12-14).
2.   Look for someone that claims to be infallible when he sits in the temple of God (as God) 2Thes 2 Google "Ex Catedra"
3.   Look for someone that looks like he came out of the sea (ask me for pictures, Google will provide them) Rev 13:1
4.   Look for someone that has no desire for women (Dan 11:37). HELLO?
5.   Look for someone impersonating an angel of light (a messenger of Christianity) 2Co 11:13-15
6.   Look for someone that originates from within the Church of Jesus Christ (1John 2:18-19)
7.   Look for someone that is a king from a small nation (find in Guinness book of world records which is the smallest nation) (a little horn is a little king)  Dan 7:8,24 and Rev 17:12
8.   Look for someone that is a king and yet is different from all other kings (Dan 7:24)
9.   Look for someone that on his coronation, a crown is given to him (Rev 6:2)
10.   Look for someone that is the biggest religious leader in the world (Mat 7:13; Rev 13:7), hint, ask Guinness.
11.   Look for someone whose people destroyed the temple in Jerusalem in A.D. 70 (hint, if the puertoricans did it, then he is puertorrican, Dan 9:26)
12.   Look for someone whose people are notorious for not loving reading the Bible (2Thes 2:8-12)
13.   Look for someone that has several names that add up to 666 and those names mean something like “substitute of Jesus Christ

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #91 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 11:00:41 »
In Revelation 17:5 the wh*re Babylon has a name in her forehead: "MYSTERY, Babylon the Great and mother of harlots and abomination of the earth".  The name "MYSTERY" is fulfilled by the Vatican in a couple of ways.  First of all, the religion of the old city Babylon was characterized by the many mysteries.  Second, the Vatican Religion is also characterized by the many mysteries.  In Roman Catholicism, everything is a mystery, the mystery of the resurrection, the mystery of the assumption, the mystery of this and that.  The Catholic Encyclopedia defines "mystery" as "all the catholic truths".  She is indeed full of mysteries.  The very term "Latin" means "hidden". 

     She also fulfills the idea that the true identity of the woman is hidden from the world, it is a mystery.  This is again imitating God because God's church was a mystery during the Old Testament times (see Eph 1:9; 3:3-10; 5:32 and Colos. 1:26-27).   The Vatican fulfills this prophecy also because practically no one sees the Vatican as the headquarters of Satan.  As it is written, the whole world is deceived by Satan.   During the reformation,
that knowledge became public and many died for spreading that message, but today, collective amnesia is the rule.  Truly the whole world is drunk with the wine of her fornication.  It is written: he deceives the whole world (Rev 12:9).  Yet, amazingly, everyone thinks "the whole world but me, surely not me".

Why is it that people wont pay attention to the clues given by God?




Throughout the entire old testament Israel is referred to as the whore. Israel and Rome are not the same entity. One came out of the other. From your point of view, Israel came from Rome. I think you have it backwards.

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #92 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 12:03:35 »

Throughout the entire old testament Israel is referred to as the wh*re. Israel and Rome are not the same entity. One came out of the other. From your point of view, Israel came from Rome. I think you have it backwards.

Read reply # 83 and you will see there is no room for misinterpretation because God is not the God of confusion, there is only one answer ... ROME.

The Jews did not destroy the temple.

Jerusalem was not reigning over the kings of the earth in 90 AD... ROME was.

Stop analyzing verses that do not deal with the subject and pay attention to the clues that God gave you.

The antichrist can be identified with a name that adds up to 666. Revelation 13:17-18 says: Here is wisdom (this is a great hint), let those that have understanding (those that know the Roman numerals) count (do not read) the number of his name, the number of the beast, the number of man, for his number is 666.  

Here again the Pope stands without competition as the fulfillment of prophecy.  Which antichrist do you know that can be identified with the number 666?  If you find one, how does he compare with the track record of the Pope?  
    
          You see, the Pope has at least four titles in Latin that add up to 666.  Pay attention to the meaning of the titles and you will see that the titles themselves mean antichrist.  The first title is "Vicar of Christ" (VICARIVS FILEII DEI).  Vicar means "substitute" (see Webster).  “Vicar of Christ

Offline LightHammer

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #93 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 12:14:21 »
Rev 17:18 And the woman which you saw (the wh*re Babylon) is that great city, which reigns (present tense, right there in 90AD) over the kings of the earth.

There is only one that fits that description, ROME.

Dan 9:26 ... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ...

The prince that is to come is the Antichrist and again, the ones that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple were the ROMANS.  The ROMANS are the people of the Antichrist.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

ROME happens to sit on 7 mountains.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the wh*re sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The Vatican is my witness.  The coin of Pope Leo 12th, shows the Catholic Church sitting on planet earth with the inscription, the whole world is her chair.



The Vatican has fulfilled all the prophecies of the Harlot Babylon, all of them, faithfully.

"Rome" in Hebrew adds up to 666

"Roman man" in Hebrew adds up to 666

Listen to history !



You realize of course that Revelation was written in Koine Greek right? You realize that the Beast in question had already received and recovered from its mortal wound and was on its 6th ruler when St. John actually wrote his work?

Furthermore I'm sure you know that the majority of Jews at the time spoke Greek. So your use of Hebrew to try and force Rome into the prophecy is faulty. The cryptic warning in Hebrew would fail to reach 98% of the people who would actually come to read the epistle.

Showing pictures of coins and all that jazz is entertaining but with one verse I have proven the Mother of Harlots was an indictment against Jerusalem effectively reducing your feeble and poor exegesis to a pile of rubble.

But carry on though. I need something entertaining to look at while I'm en route.



I don't see how your one verse proved anything accept that Young's literal translation is a very inaccurate translation.


Actually Youngs is probably the best Protestant translation hands down but just to be fair I'll quote the exact same verse in other translations.


Revelation 11:8
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
New International Version

Revelation 11:8
King James Version (KJV)
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Revelation 11:8
Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
8 And the bodies of them shall lie in the streets of the great city, that is called ghostly Sodom, and Egypt, where the Lord of them was crucified.



The great city that is called Egypt Sodom and the Mother of Harlots, that murders the prophets of God, is the very same city where our Lord was crucified Jerusalem.

St. Luke 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

34 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not!

35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate:....

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #94 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 14:15:52 »

The great city that is called Egypt Sodom and the Mother of Harlots, that murders the prophets of God, is the very same city where our Lord was crucified Jerusalem.


The Bible never calls Jerusalem the mother of harlots, that is a lie.  Rome is the mother of harlots.

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet (red) color,





and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,





having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:



5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:

Read the book Foxes Book of Martyrs.

and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Yes indeed.

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #95 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 16:26:02 »
In Rev 17:5, Babylon is described as the mother of abominations and the Vatican can be seen as the mother of abomination based on the following Scriptures:

     a) Deu 7:25-26; 2Chr 15:8; Eze 16:36 and 1 Peter 4:3 (calls an abomination for using statues in religious services).

     b) Jer 44 (for worshiping Mary as the Queen of Heaven is an abomination).

     c) Isa 1:13 (calls it an abomination for using incense in Church).  The incense allowed by God was of a secret composition.  He allowed no other.

God killed two of Aaron's sons for using the wrong incense (Exo 30:9, 34-38; Lev 10:1-2).

     d) Prov 28:9 (for not obeying the Word of God).

     e) Deu 18:10-12; 1Sam 28:7-14; 1Chr 10:13-14 (for going after visionaries, i.e., people that can see saints or Marian apparitions, spirit mediums, that is an abomination according to God).

     f) Lev 20:13 (for protecting and practicing homosexuality among the church clergy).  The Catholic Encyclopedia fails to call homosexuality an abomination, but God does.  The Vatican does not even call it a sin. 

Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear.

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #96 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 16:33:20 »

Throughout the entire old testament Israel is referred to as the wh*re. Israel and Rome are not the same entity. One came out of the other. From your point of view, Israel came from Rome. I think you have it backwards.

Read reply # 83 and you will see there is no room for misinterpretation because God is not the God of confusion, there is only one answer ... ROME.

The Jews did not destroy the temple.

Jerusalem was not reigning over the kings of the earth in 90 AD... ROME was.

Stop analyzing verses that do not deal with the subject and pay attention to the clues that God gave you.

The antichrist can be identified with a name that adds up to 666. Revelation 13:17-18 says: Here is wisdom (this is a great hint), let those that have understanding (those that know the Roman numerals) count (do not read) the number of his name, the number of the beast, the number of man, for his number is 666.  

Here again the Pope stands without competition as the fulfillment of prophecy.  Which antichrist do you know that can be identified with the number 666?  If you find one, how does he compare with the track record of the Pope?  
    
          You see, the Pope has at least four titles in Latin that add up to 666.  Pay attention to the meaning of the titles and you will see that the titles themselves mean antichrist.  The first title is "Vicar of Christ" (VICARIVS FILEII DEI).  Vicar means "substitute" (see Webster).  “Vicar of Christ

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #97 on: Sat Jun 16, 2012 - 16:36:45 »
TD Zec 1:21 tells us who "the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary", they are not Romans.

Zec 1:18  Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold four horns.
Zec 1:19  And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, Israel, and Jerusalem.
Zec 1:20  And the LORD shewed me four carpenters.
Zec 1:21  Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the horns which have scattered Judah, so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the horns of the Gentiles, which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.

The 4 horns are spirit realm beings as are the 4 carpenters that come to fray them. If you understand how the bible uses numbers then this passage is a dead give away as to who the people in Daniel 9:26 are.

Who destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple (the sanctuary)?  The Romans did it.  It is a matter of historical fact.  And you want me to ignore history that is in harmony with Scripture and listen to you because YOU CAN SEE WHAT OTHERS CAN NOT SEE IN THE SPIRIT?  No wonder Jesus said, let no man deceive you.

NOPE.  I rather take historical facts, I can take that to the bank, it is as good as money.


Offline LightHammer

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #98 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 10:46:00 »

The great city that is called Egypt Sodom and the Mother of Harlots, that murders the prophets of God, is the very same city where our Lord was crucified Jerusalem.


The Bible never calls Jerusalem the mother of harlots, that is a lie.  Rome is the mother of harlots.

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet (red) color,





and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,





having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:



5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:

Read the book Foxes Book of Martyrs.

and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Yes indeed.


No Rome was (past tense) the Beast. The whore who was spiritually Egypt and Sodom was the city where Christ was crucified (verbatim from the Holy Writ). That city was Jerusalem.

No matter how many times you post photos of the Pope conducted service or pathetically take history out of context the clear words of the Bible will not change.

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #99 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 13:29:37 »

The great city that is called Egypt Sodom and the Mother of Harlots, that murders the prophets of God, is the very same city where our Lord was crucified Jerusalem.


The Bible never calls Jerusalem the mother of harlots, that is a lie.  Rome is the mother of harlots.

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet (red) color,





and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,





having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:



5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:

Read the book Foxes Book of Martyrs.

and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Yes indeed.


No Rome was (past tense) the Beast. The wh*re who was spiritually Egypt and Sodom was the city where Christ was crucified (verbatim from the Holy Writ). That city was Jerusalem.

No matter how many times you post photos of the Pope conducted service or pathetically take history out of context the clear words of the Bible will not change.


There is only one verse in the Bible that speaks of the Mother of Harlots, Rev 17:5, and that passage makes it clear it is talking about Rome, the city that reigned over the kings of the earth in 90 AD.

Peace

Offline LightHammer

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #100 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 13:37:19 »

The great city that is called Egypt Sodom and the Mother of Harlots, that murders the prophets of God, is the very same city where our Lord was crucified Jerusalem.


The Bible never calls Jerusalem the mother of harlots, that is a lie.  Rome is the mother of harlots.

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet (red) color,





and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,





having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:



5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:

Read the book Foxes Book of Martyrs.

and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Yes indeed.


No Rome was (past tense) the Beast. The wh*re who was spiritually Egypt and Sodom was the city where Christ was crucified (verbatim from the Holy Writ). That city was Jerusalem.

No matter how many times you post photos of the Pope conducted service or pathetically take history out of context the clear words of the Bible will not change.


There is only one verse in the Bible that speaks of the Mother of Harlots, Rev 17:5, and that passage makes it clear it is talking about Rome, the city that reigned over the kings of the earth in 90 AD.

Peace


Nope thats the only verse that actually calls the great city by the name Mother of Harlots. The great city is spoken of throughout all of Revelation. It is called Egypt. It is called Sodom. It is called the Whore of Babylon. It is the seven hilled city where Jesus Christ was crucified. It was the city that first persecuted the saints of the Church the first Christian to be martyred was St. Stephen and he was martyred by the authorities in Jerusalem.

It's Jerusalem.

Now the seven-head, ten-horn, bear-leopard-lion Beast was definitely the Roman Empire. The prophecy was a reference to these two instituions.


Offline FireSword

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #101 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 14:55:24 »
I recently read that the worst emperor killed 4000 Christians. I was a bit shocked by how small this number was.

I also read that the Roman empire did not practice Christian persecution, but that the free citizens in that empire were the ones that killed majority of Christians.

They also banned crucifixtion

From a biblical viewpoint, I saw

Pontius pilate wiling to set Jesus free

Paul, appealing to Roman authority to set him free.

This is strange behaviour from what is supposedly the beast empire.


raggthyme7

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #102 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 15:12:25 »

Nope thats the only verse that actually calls the great city by the name Mother of Harlots. The great city is spoken of throughout all of Revelation. It is called Egypt. It is called Sodom. It is called the wh*re of Babylon. It is the seven hilled city where Jesus Christ was crucified. It was the city that first persecuted the saints of the Church the first Christian to be martyred was St. Stephen and he was martyred by the authorities in Jerusalem.

It's Jerusalem.

Now the seven-head, ten-horn, bear-leopard-lion Beast was definitely the Roman Empire. The prophecy was a reference to these two instituions.



Very well said. Sound interpretation is so refreshing. End-times madness has taken over the internet! People will eventually grow tired of it... hopefully.
« Last Edit: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 15:45:31 by raggthyme7 »

Offline Talking Donkey

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #103 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 17:43:51 »

Nope thats the only verse that actually calls the great city by the name Mother of Harlots. The great city is spoken of throughout all of Revelation. It is called Egypt. It is called Sodom. It is called the wh*re of Babylon. It is the seven hilled city where Jesus Christ was crucified. It was the city that first persecuted the saints of the Church the first Christian to be martyred was St. Stephen and he was martyred by the authorities in Jerusalem.

It's Jerusalem.

Now the seven-head, ten-horn, bear-leopard-lion Beast was definitely the Roman Empire. The prophecy was a reference to these two instituions.



Very well said. Sound interpretation is so refreshing. End-times madness has taken over the internet! People will eventually grow tired of it... hopefully.

That great city is called many things, but God himself provided the interpretation for us when he said:

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth (present tense!) over the kings of the earth.

There is only one option there.... ROME.

And again when in Daniel God said:

Dan 9:26 ... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ...

The people that destroyed it were the Romans, not the Cubans, the Romans did it. What a coincidence that the Bible is in harmony with itself.  God is indeed awesome!

Peace

Offline LightHammer

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Re: The wh*re Of Babylon
« Reply #104 on: Tue Jun 19, 2012 - 17:50:01 »

Nope thats the only verse that actually calls the great city by the name Mother of Harlots. The great city is spoken of throughout all of Revelation. It is called Egypt. It is called Sodom. It is called the wh*re of Babylon. It is the seven hilled city where Jesus Christ was crucified. It was the city that first persecuted the saints of the Church the first Christian to be martyred was St. Stephen and he was martyred by the authorities in Jerusalem.

It's Jerusalem.

Now the seven-head, ten-horn, bear-leopard-lion Beast was definitely the Roman Empire. The prophecy was a reference to these two instituions.



Very well said. Sound interpretation is so refreshing. End-times madness has taken over the internet! People will eventually grow tired of it... hopefully.

That great city is called many things, but God himself provided the interpretation for us when he said:

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth (present tense!) over the kings of the earth.

There is only one option there.... ROME.

Quote

Yea the whole "present tense" applies to the "present" when the Apocalypse was written. That was the first century.

It was Jerusalem.

Quote
And again when in Daniel God said:

Dan 9:26 ... and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; ...

The people that destroyed it were the Romans, not the Cubans, the Romans did it. What a coincidence that the Bible is in harmony with itself.  God is indeed awesome!

Peace

Daniel is not even talking about the same event as Revelation.