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Offline RB

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Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« on: Sat May 14, 2022 - 14:05:34 »
                                                                                               Islam and the Kings of the East
                                                                                                                           By Dr. Ken Matto


Revelation 16:12 (KJV) And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

For many years the above verse has been interpreted wrongly in prophecy books but then again tell me what has been interpreted rightly in prophecy books.  We were told that Revelation 16:12 has to do with China and that the Chinese army would rise to a total of 200 million men who would then invade Israel.  This would happen at the battle of Armageddon.  When one looks at a world map we can see that China is definitely in the Far East.  The book of Revelation is written with its focus on the church from the first coming of Christ to the second coming of Christ.  It focuses on the trials and tribulations the eternal church of Christ would face during that time period.  Martin Luther knew it well: "The Book of Revelation is intended as a revelation of things that are to happen in the future, and especially of tribulations and disasters for the church-Works of Martin Luther, VI, P.481

One of the greatest attacks on the church in this present century is the incursion of false gospels into the local assemblies themselves.  Radio and TV ministries are all compromised already but now Satan’s attacks has become strategic in that he now targets local assemblies.  One of the ways he does is to introduce false teachings into a church on a minimal level and then there is always someone who will build on those teachings until they mushroom and another local assembly falls.

One of the greatest scourges which has come to the west and that includes Canada, the USA, Europe, Africa and other countries which have allowed this religion to enter its borders is the false religion of Islam.  When one looks at a world map we would see that Islam had its start in Mecca, Arabia around 570 A.D. by Muhammed when he was about 40 years old.  Islam has 1.8 billion followers which means that 24% of the world’s population adheres to this religion.  Islam is also the fastest growing religion in Europe because of immigration.  The overall number of mosques in the United States rose from 1,209 in 2000 to 2,106 in 2010, an increase of 74%.  A 2017 study (Pew Research) says there are 3.45 million Muslims in the United States and growing at a rate of about 100,000 per year.

When we look at a world map we will see that Saudi Arabia is clearly east of all Africa, Europe, North and South America.  In Revelation 16:12, the verse tells us that the Euphrates River was dried up allowing the kings of the east to be prepared.  The Euphrates River runs through Cappadocia, Syria, Arabia, Chaldea and Mesopotamia and then empties into the Persian Gulf.  When looking at the book of Revelation, there is a massive amount of symbolism contained in it.  The Euphrates River drying up means that people on both sides of that river can cross it unhindered and that is what is in view.  If we apply the prophecy book meaning to it, then we have to ask the question that since the Euphrates River is so long, then where would that 200 million man army cross?  Another question is where would those countries be able to place 200 million people?  That is a lot of people and it would be impossible to place that many people in small areas since their objective would be the invasion of Israel.  Now when it talks about the river drying up it is speaking about the ability to travel unhindered and that is what is happening in our world today.

Muslims are coming into America, the European nations, and Africa unfettered which means they are moving into countries without any hindrance.  Poland and Hungary are the only two countries I know of at present which do not allow Muslim migration into their country and it is interesting that these two countries have a very low crime rate and their women can go out at night without the fear of some Muslim stabbing and raping them.  Therefore I believe deeply that the kings of the east are those countries who are allowing their people to migrate to other countries for the purpose of spreading Islam.  We see the result of these migrations in that in many European countries where their crime rate has skyrocketed it is because of the allowance of the devotees of Islam.  We don’t see Christians forcing women to marry at 9 years old or forcing them to wear a Burka or Hijab.  What has happened in the United States is that Islam has become the most protected religion in violation of the First Amendment.  They tell us that all Muslims are not terrorists yet all the terrorists are Muslims.  Since this Muslim migration to the west continues and the time period for this migration is between the first and second coming of Christ, it falls within the parameters of Revelation.

Revelation 16:13 (KJV)   And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

John saw three unclean spirits come out of the beast, the dragon, and the false prophet.  There is an interesting parallel to this event in Revelation.  During the medieval period, three major caliphates succeeded each other: the Rashidun Caliphate (632–661), the Umayyad Caliphate (661–750) and the Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258).  Historically, the caliphates were polities based in Islam which developed into multi-ethnic trans-national empires.  Out of these three Caliphates came the beginning of the worldwide spread of Islam.  A Caliphate was a state ruled by an Islamic leader known as a Caliph.  They were considered to be successors to Muhammed, just like the Popes in Rome are considered, by their devotees, to be the successors to Peter.

Revelation 16:14 (KJV)   For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

We read in verse 14 that these unclean spirits were devils which went forth to all the kings of the earth and to the entire world.  Their main objective is deception to keep those who are in the kingdom of Satan right where they are.  Islam teaches that if one dies in Jihad against infidels they will have seventy virgins waiting for them in heaven.  So they use deception to gain members and keep them vigilant to fight against any infidels which are mainly Christians.  Satan will be using these false religions to make sure that he comes against God with as many as he can.

The first part of this verse explains exactly what the unclean spirits are. These are the spirits of devils and by means of miracles, they go out and deceive not only the populations of the world, but also incites the leaders of the nations around the entire world. It is through the political governments that Christianity has either been curtailed or endorsed. In this verse we are seeing that because of the nature of these miracles as being unclean, this will be a worldwide crusade against true Christianity. There will be no nation that will not attempt some type of persecution for the purpose of silencing the Gospel. God will be using this time of persecution as the precursor for the great battle of God Almighty which will be Armageddon, the final battle between God and Satan. While the war will be waged in the spiritual realm, it will also be waged here on earth by the followers of the beast. The kings of the earth here are linked also to the kings of the east in verse 12. (Luke 21:20-22 KJV) And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. {21} Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. {22} For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.  Luke 21:20-22 calls these the days of vengeance when Satan will try to enact vengeance upon the body of Christ but instead God will bring vengeance upon the kingdom of Satan for its persecution of the true believers. Jerusalem, representing the body of believers will definitely suffer a final persecution just before the return of Christ and we see those persecutions wherever there is a government run by Islam.  When the U.S. troops were stationed in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia during the Gulf war of 1990, a friend of mine who served there told me it was illegal for U.S. servicemen to bring a Bible to Saudi Arabia.

Now instead of getting into every detail, I just want to close this article by stating that while the kings of the east may be speaking of Islam, it may not be the only interpretation but it definitely is an interpretation.  Never before in history has an eastern religion taken over so many western countries.  Yes we have had Buddhism, Taosim, Confucius, and Hinduism and other eastern religions come to the west but never with the murdering vengeance equal to Islam.  Islam has determined to rule the world and the way it is going, if the Lord does not return soon, then Satan may take over this world and that may be how he will quash all the Saints.

Revelation 13:7 (KJV)   And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

There is an upside to this whole spiritual quagmire and that is the kings of the east moving out of their realms happens right at the end of time and is another indicator that Satan has been loosed to deceive the nations which comes right at the end of time.  Revelation 20:8 (KJV) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea..  There is that little window of time when Satan will be allowed to deceive the nations and the best way he can do it is to deluge them with false religions of which Islam is one of his best tools.  Then 2 verses later in verse 10, it is all over as Satan and his cohorts are sent to the eternal lake of fire forever.

Summary

I am not stating that what I have given here is the ultimate interpretation of Revelation 16:12 and the following verses.  However, it does fit into the timeline of Revelation and Islam did originate in the Middle East and was sent westward by the Imams and Caliphs who are determined to rule the world with Islam as their tool.  America started as a Christian nation and now has 3.45 million Muslims within its borders, maybe as high as 8 million.  According to Brigette Gabriel, maybe 15-25% might be radicalized meaning that the USA has potentially 517,500 to 862,500 terrorists inside its borders ready to strike on orders.  Let that sink in and more and more Muslims are coming into this country every year.


"I do not agree with every word, (especially so with his use of Luke 21; Revelation 13, etc.) but overall it is the best I have read on Revelation 16.  We now have Muslims in our government which would have been unthinkable very short time ago"~RB.

 
« Last Edit: Sun May 15, 2022 - 03:34:53 by RB »

Offline Rella

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #1 on: Sun May 15, 2022 - 08:24:31 »
                                                                                               Islam and the Kings of the East
       


"I do not agree with every word, (especially so with his use of Luke 21; Revelation 13, etc.) but overall it is the best I have read on Revelation 16.  We now have Muslims in our government which would have been unthinkable very short time ago"~RB.

Side Note:

PA would be Senate candidates...

John Fetterman never says what his religion is but his wife is Muslim. (democrat leading)

DR OZ   is full blown Muslim.   ( very likely will win since the Trump dumper knocked McCormick to 3rd place)

You are right

Offline Amo

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #2 on: Mon May 16, 2022 - 10:36:13 »
Rev 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth. 2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image...........................
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds. 12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. 13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.................................... .
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.


The context of chapter sixteen is in reference to the plagues being poured out upon those who have already received the mark of the beast, and thereby worship its image. The dragon, the beast, the false prophet, and the great city Babylon are the topic at hand. We know from Rev 13, 17, and 18, that the beast is ridden by Babylon, and both encompass this entire world apart from Christ.

So, these events are at the very end, after the global beast is already established and enforcing its mark. These kings of the east therefore, do not appear until after these things have been established, and immediately before the final seventh plague of God is poured out. The last plague which is the end of Babylon, the beast, the false prophet, and the dragon. The sixth plague is not yet the invasion of the kings of the east, but simply the drying up of the Euphrates preparing the way of the kings of the east. The next plague is most obviously the end of the earth, at which time the cities of all the nations fall, among whom Babylon is the most prominent.

Literal Babylon sat along side the Euphrates, which was a major source of its wealth and power. Cyrus, a type of Christ and a king of the east, conquered Babylon by diverting the waters of the Euphrates which flowed through it. allowing his soldiers to enter Babylon along the river bed, unto the gates which were left open according to God's prophetic designs. Thus was Babylon conquered, and Cyrus the chosen deliverer of Israel's captivity, also commanded the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the temple.

Isa 45:1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; 2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: 3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

The source of new covenant spiritual Babylon's power is also water. We know from Rev 17, that she sits upon many waters, which are a symbol of peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues. It is these very peoples and nations which give their power over to her and the beast which she rides, which are the waters she sits upon. The true source of her power being all the peoples described in Rev 17&18, who commit fornication with her, and are made drunk and mad by her wine. We also know that though these people give their power over to her for one hour at the end of time, they also turn on her right before our Lord returns unto the judgment and destruction of her, and all the nations of this earth in bed with her. This is the symbolic drying up of the river Euphrates the scriptures are referring to, which prepares or immediately precedes the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ unto judgment and deliverance. North and east are the directions of judgment and deliverance from God.

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

First, the ten kings and their peoples therefore, give their power over to the beast who is ridden by Babylon the Great for a short while. Shortly thereafter though, they are said to hate her, and will turn upon her unto destruction. This is the drying up of the waters of the Euphrates which immediately precedes the return of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The drying up of the many waters BABYLON THE GREAT sits upon. It is the realization of the peoples or waters which supported Babylon and the beast, that they have been deceived by them, which turns their support into hatred toward Babylon and the beasts destruction.

The tidings from the east of which Daniel speaks, are the three angels messages given right before our Lord returns (Rev 14). Messages concerning the everlasting gospel, and those who war against it. Babylon, and the beast. A time will come, right before our Lord returns, in which those deceived understand this to be true. Consequently turning upon the deceivers and or false shepherds if you will. These tidings are what greatly disturb Babylon and the beast, depicted in Daniel as the king of the north, which in fact the king Babylon was in old testament scripture and prophecy. Though he will be enraged by these tidings from the east and north, directions of deliverance and judgement from God, his efforts to destroy the message and those giving it will fail. He will come to his end, and none will help him.

Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain. 40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. 42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. 44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.






« Last Edit: Mon May 16, 2022 - 10:44:42 by Amo »

Offline RB

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #3 on: Tue May 17, 2022 - 04:00:49 »
Greetings Amo~I have a few problems with your understanding and will share them with you.

First, you said:
Quote from: Amo on: Yesterday at 10:36:13
The context of chapter sixteen is in reference to the plagues being poured out upon those who have already received the mark of the beast, and thereby worship its image. The dragon, the beast, the false prophet, and the great city Babylon are the topic at hand. We know from Rev 13, 17, and 18, that the beast is ridden by Babylon, and both encompass this entire world apart from Christ.
I'll start but may not be able to finish since we have company and may be interrupted at any time.

Amo, of all people you should understand that no one chapter in Revelation automatically follows the proceeding chapter as far as what is under consideration~in other words, Revelation was not written in chronological order, not even close. Every chapter could and often does present to us a different subject for us to consider the events from Christ's death to his second coming again. Revelation sixteen does introduce to us a different subject for our consideration, and that subject I firmly believe, unless clear evidence shows otherwise that the false religion of Islam is the topic..

Amo, you have been taught and you have received that RCC is the only false cult under consideration or is the main false cult under IN Mystery Babylon (you truly believe she IS mystery Babylon) but you are so wrong.  For your information, there are an estimated 1.2 billion Roman Catholics in the world, according to Vatican figures. More than 40% of the world's Catholics live in Latin America~but Africa has seen the biggest growth in Catholic congregations in recent years.

Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the world and today, has approximately 1.7 billion followers. Amo, they have around a half of a billion more your number one enemy! Trust me, I detest RCC as much as you, but there are many more dangerous people in this world to CHRISTIANS than RCC~Muslims being the number one enemies of Jesus Christ and his people, especially the extreme radicals among them.
Quote from: Amo on: Yesterday at 10:36:13
The source of new covenant spiritual Babylon's power is also water.
Amo, again, Mystery Baylon is this world system that is antichrist in every sense of the word. By you limiting Baylon to the RCC you are actually hiding Babylon's true identity, thereby being a tool of devil in protecting Mystery Babylon and its corrupt lovers. I truly do not believe you want to be so used by Satan in doing this~but your teaching is doing just that, and as a friend, it's my duty to warn you.

While I agree that the source of mystery Babylon's power is its huge followers (water)~ this has always been so since the beginning of time at which time the mystery of iniquity started.
Quote from:  Amo on: Yesterday at 10:36:13
The true source of her power being all the peoples described in Rev 17&18, who commit fornication with her, and are made drunk and mad by her wine. We also know that though these people give their power over to her for one hour at the end of time, they also turn on her right before our Lord returns unto the judgment and destruction of her, and all the nations of this earth in bed with her. This is the symbolic drying up of the river Euphrates the scriptures are referring to, which prepares or immediately precedes the second coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ unto judgment and deliverance. North and east are the directions of judgment and deliverance from God.
Again, Mystery Babylon's deceived people give her the strength and followers she has~all the world wonders after Mystery Babylon, except those folks who have the seal of God in their foreheads. But this has always been so, remember the days of Noah? Only eight souls were saved by water, while every man's heart was deceived by this world system, and their heart was filled with every wicked imagination one could think of, much like our very own days. Among the multitudes, there has only been a very small remnant.
Quote
Zachariah 12:7-9~"Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Here my friend you have the mark of the beast from the book of Revelation: 666..... Two-thirds of the whole, while only a small remnant is brought through the fire of tribulation brought on by the beast or, the spirit of Satan.

Btw~EVERY MAN is born with the mark of the beast~it is called human depravity, and he will die with that mark UNLESS mercy is freely given to that person~if so, then they are SEALED with the seal of God IN their foreheads and from that time forward they will desire to do that which is right in the eyes of the Lord.

I do believe that the TEN kings (a number for totality, meaning ALL KINGS/RULERS at that time) WILL turn against the false religions of Mystery Babylon just before the end of this world and destroy her and then God will destroy them while the elect remnant will be saved as Gog and Magog (the antichrist kingdoms of this world)  gather against the beloved city, but it will be to their own destruction! Revelation 20:8,9.
Quote from: Amo on: Yesterday at 10:36:13
First, the ten kings and their peoples therefore, give their power over to the beast who is ridden by Babylon the Great for a short while. Shortly thereafter though, they are said to hate her, and will turn upon her unto destruction. This is the drying up of the waters of the Euphrates which immediately precedes the return of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The drying up of the many waters BABYLON THE GREAT sits upon. It is the realization of the peoples or waters which supported Babylon and the beast, that they have been deceived by them, which turns their support into hatred toward Babylon and the beasts destruction.

The tidings from the east of which Daniel speaks, are the three angels messages given right before our Lord returns (Rev 14). Messages concerning the everlasting gospel, and those who war against it. Babylon, and the beast. A time will come, right before our Lord returns, in which those deceived understand this to be true. Consequently turning upon the deceivers and or false shepherds if you will. These tidings are what greatly disturb Babylon and the beast, depicted in Daniel as the king of the north, which in fact the king Babylon was in old testament scripture and prophecy. Though he will be enraged by these tidings from the east and north, directions of deliverance and judgement from God, his efforts to destroy the message and those giving it will fail. He will come to his end, and none will help him.
I have to come back to this later.....RB
« Last Edit: Tue May 17, 2022 - 04:10:04 by RB »

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #3 on: Tue May 17, 2022 - 04:00:49 »

Offline Amo

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #4 on: Wed May 18, 2022 - 20:02:50 »
Quote
Amo, of all people you should understand that no one chapter in Revelation automatically follows the proceeding chapter as far as what is under consideration~in other words, Revelation was not written in chronological order, not even close. Every chapter could and often does present to us a different subject for us to consider the events from Christ's death to his second coming again. Revelation sixteen does introduce to us a different subject for our consideration, and that subject I firmly believe, unless clear evidence shows otherwise that the false religion of Islam is the topic..

OK forget the word chapter. The context being discussed is still exactly what I stated. Repetition and enlargement is often employed all throughout scripture, and especially concerning prophecy. Context matters. No sense in changing the subject or starting over, until the context of the scriptures being examined themselves do. Not only is the context of what is being discussed in chapter sixteen what I have stated, but the connection between the entities being discussed is established elsewhere throughout the book of Revelation as well. Why ignore or twist context?

Chapters, as you say, as you point out that there really are no chapters, do not necessarily bring up whole new subjects. To the contrary, repetition and enlargement are employed to reveal more details regarding or related to the same subject or subjects. The subjects of the book of Revelation are Christ’s church, and her most prominent enemies throughout history. Which we both agree will encompass all the world before the end. Regarding for the most part, who or what Babylon the Great is.

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Amo, you have been taught and you have received that RCC is the only false cult under consideration or is the main false cult under IN Mystery Babylon (you truly believe she IS mystery Babylon) but you are so wrong.  For your information, there are an estimated 1.2 billion Roman Catholics in the world, according to Vatican figures. More than 40% of the world's Catholics live in Latin America~but Africa has seen the biggest growth in Catholic congregations in recent years.

Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the world and today, has approximately 1.7 billion followers. Amo, they have around a half of a billion more your number one enemy! Trust me, I detest RCC as much as you, but there are many more dangerous people in this world to CHRISTIANS than RCC~Muslims being the number one enemies of Jesus Christ and his people, especially the extreme radicals among them.

Thanks for that information, though it is nothing I didn’t already know for the most part, and has little to no bearing upon who Babylon is. As we have already discussed many times over on these boards, scripture supplies many details regarding Babylon. Which I have correctly and rightly established regarding the connection of these details to the RCC. As millions of Protestant Christians and otherwise have done before me.

They properly identified her role concerning the events transpiring in the world around them during their own lives, as fulfilling these details as well. This is because the history of her actions and interactions with the world do themselves fulfill these very details. I have not only been taught these truths concerning the past, but have spent 40 plus years now, establishing and confirming these very facts. Deny them if you will.

I am able to do this, because her actions and interactions within this world have and do continue to fulfill those very details, which you continue to deny as proof of who she is. Your denial does not nullify the very many articles and examples of just such fulfillment, I have provided on these very boards for many years now. Which themselves do not even scratch the surface of all that is really going on, very much behind the scenes no doubt, regarding the same. I am not wrong.

“Christianity” is still the largest religion in the world. The papacies “Christian” professing daughters are returning to her via her unity of humanity agenda. Islam itself and many others are uniting with her agenda as well. As all will before our Lord returns, as biblical prophecy predicts. You just won’t acknowledge the global role she is playing in bringing this about. Though without question she preaches, teaches, finances, sponsors, supports, facilitates, and is politically establishing the same, right in front of your face.

I have posted gobs of quotes from Encyclicals, Doctrinal Notes, Catholic News Agencies, Christian news agencies, secular news agencies, and many other sources recording and reporting these developments on these very boards. Which you either ignore or simply do not read. Nevertheless, there is no other institution pushing this agenda harder than the papacy. Nor any other with a network anywhere near as large and effective as that of the papacies on a global scale. These are the plain and simple facts.

On top of this, the Pope has declared all fundamentalists, including bible believing fundamentalists who do not believe in or promote violence, violent terrorists. While basically accepting all and any other views of those who actually practice violence against those they disagree with. Where and why do you think Biden gets off, basically declaring any and all of his political opponents of the supposed right, the most dangerous radical extremist threat to this nation? He is simply a good little papal puppet. Declaring all those who oppose his political views and agendas, radical violent terrorists. Which views for the very most part, happen to be identical to that of the Vaticans. So here we go nationally and globally right back to the dark ages, when popery had real power to persecute all who opposed her views.

So be it as God’s word has predicted, regardless of your denial.

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Amo, again, Mystery Baylon is this world system that is antichrist in every sense of the word. By you limiting Baylon to the RCC you are actually hiding Babylon's true identity, thereby being a tool of devil in protecting Mystery Babylon and its corrupt lovers. I truly do not believe you want to be so used by Satan in doing this~but your teaching is doing just that, and as a friend, it's my duty to warn you.

I have already addressed the above baloney before. Yes, Babylon is the world antichrist system. Which I do not and have not ever denied. You simply deny that the most prominent institution coordinating and orchestrating that exact system, is Babylon. Which is simply to deny scripture itself. Prophetic biblical prophecy declares BABYLON THE GREAT, to be that institution in and of this earth which brings this very world antichrist system about. This is undeniable, but by those who simply will not observe what prophetic scripture simply states regarding BABYLON THE GREAT.

The global antichrist system does not just magically poof into existence, an antichrist man and institution bring these things about, as scripture plainly states many times over. Which by the way is exactly what Protestant Christians of the past who suffered greatly under papal persecutions, properly identified the papacy as. BABYLON THE GREAT, and the system of antichrist. The first beast of the book of Revelation, who received a deadly wound, whose wound is now rapidly healing on a global scale as the papacies political power and influence continue grow on that same scale.

Deny what already existed once before in the past, and is presently redeveloping right in front of your face if you will. This will change nothing. Babylon’s agenda marches forward regardless. Those bible believing Christians of the past who were persecuted and killed because of her manipulation of the kings and governments of the world unto the same, properly identified the papacy as BABYLON THE GREAT, and the system of antichrist. Bible believing Christians of today who are witnessing the papacies political influence and power advance once again on a global scale, which institution has already declared all bible believing fundamentalists are violent terrorists, do correctly identify the papacy as the same today.

Denial will change nothing.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?…………………………………………….
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.





 
« Last Edit: Wed May 18, 2022 - 20:10:40 by Amo »

Offline RB

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #5 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 04:07:14 »
Quote from: Amo on: Yesterday at 20:02:50
I have not only been taught these truths concerning the past, but have spent 40 plus years now, establishing and confirming these very facts. Deny them if you will.
Amo, I will only say a few things and then drop this discussion with you.

Your forty years are commendable and no doubt you have done this with zeal, both commendable. Years do not necessarily produce truth either from me or you. I have been studying the scriptures for almost fifty years and started as a young man in my mid-twenties~and sir, I'm still learning, God still occasionally gives me a better understanding of his truth on certain doctrine than I had even five years ago, for which I very thankful which motivates me to continue searching his blessed word for His truth on a particular doctrine.

Only a thought or two for your consideration.
Quote from: Amo on: Yesterday at 20:02:50
So be it as God’s word has predicted, regardless of your denial..................Denial will change nothing.
This works both way my friend, and I'm just as convinced as you are toward me that you are so wrong concerning your eschatology of mainly following Ellen G. White your prophetess.

Also, as much as I admire the Reformers God did not reveal the man of sin to them as he has in our day with the many more false cults than they were faced with~I'm convinced if their day was as our, they would have had a much clearer understanding of the beast and the man of sin~and would not have limited their teachings to the RCC as they did. They never knew of Mormonism. Jehovah's Witnesses, and even your sect the SDA, not to mention Pentecostalism. which had its birth around 1903, or, so in Los Angles, California, and from that cult came many of their cousins, etc.
Quote from: Amo on: Yesterday at 20:02:50
“Christianity” is still the largest religion in the world.
That's very misleading statement. Here's why: Under the banner of Christianity you have RCC/EOC, which is not Christians in the true biblical sense of the sacred word "CHRISTIANS"~(See and consider 2nd Corinthians 11:1-15) under Christianity, Catholics make up 50% of the total of professing Christians and from the other 50%, you have many other cults/sects if you will and AMONG them all there are a FEW CHRISTIANS in the truest sense of God's definition of a true follower of Jesus Christ which are known only by God, but a very small percentage for sure.

So you do err by saying Christianity is still the largest religious group in the world, it is NOT even close.

Major religious groups per google
Christianity (31.2%)........Remember Catholics make up 50% of the 31% professing Christians, and from there other cults/sects. etc.
Islam (24.1%)
No religion (16%)
Hinduism (15.1%)
Buddhism (6.9%)
Folk religions (5.7%)
Sikhism (0.3%)
Judaism (0.2%)

So, if the truth was known, ISLAM is by far the largest religious group on the face of this world, followed by RCC which makes up around 25%, and from there you can see the rest.

I'm finish for now, may come back and address a little more, but not now. RB
« Last Edit: Thu May 19, 2022 - 04:11:19 by RB »

Offline Amo

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #6 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 11:59:35 »
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This works both way my friend, and I'm just as convinced as you are toward me that you are so wrong concerning your eschatology of mainly following Ellen G. White your prophetess.

I haven't heard this lame accusation for a while now. How can EGW be responsible for an eschatology developed hundreds of years before she ever was? With literally hundreds of volumes of written record still in existence today, confirming this fact. Anyone taking the time to do so, would undeniably understand that she and many other millions of her day to the present, were and are carrying on the very beliefs of millions before them. A great many of whom sealed that faith with their lives at the very hands of that institution which you deny is BABYLON THE GREAT. I am sorry RB, but the above false accusation is chosen, willing, and perhaps even obstinate ignorance. You are not denying the testimony of one questionable individual as you see it. You are denying the testimony, even the dying testimony, of millions of Christians before you. You are not denying something new, you are denying established factual history and testimony by millions before you. Just say the word, and will bombard this topic with the very many proofs of this, which I have already posted all over these boards for years now. And easily many more to boot. You should abandon this false claim, as it is so obviously a lie, or deplorable ignorance at best.

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Also, as much as I admire the Reformers God did not reveal the man of sin to them as he has in our day with the many more false cults than they were faced with~I'm convinced if their day was as our, they would have had a much clearer understanding of the beast and the man of sin~and would not have limited their teachings to the RCC as they did. They never knew of Mormonism. Jehovah's Witnesses, and even your sect the SDA, not to mention Pentecostalism. which had its birth around 1903, or, so in Los Angles, California, and from that cult came many of their cousins, etc.

Here we are. Show us how these you have mentioned above are the man of sin? And I will show you how the Reformers were absolutely correct, and far more accurate than your own chosen inferior interpretations from their own writings. Which again, preceded the testimony given by EGW, which was built upon their true testimony concerning biblical prophecy, and what they unquestionably witnessed and lived in their days and shortly after. The man of sin is exactly that, and not an institution. Though he is, has been, and will continue to be supported by the system of antichrist. EGW, and the ones who believe the testimony of the Reformers, are not the ones promoting new teaching or doctrine RB. You are.

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That's very misleading statement. Here's why: Under the banner of Christianity you have RCC/EOC, which is not Christians in the true biblical sense of the sacred word "CHRISTIANS"~(See and consider 2nd Corinthians 11:1-15) under Christianity, Catholics make up 50% of the total of professing Christians and from the other 50%, you have many other cults/sects if you will and AMONG them all there are a FEW CHRISTIANS in the truest sense of God's definition of a true follower of Jesus Christ which are known only by God, but a very small percentage for sure.

So you do err by saying Christianity is still the largest religious group in the world, it is NOT even close.

Major religious groups per google
Christianity (31.2%)........Remember Catholics make up 50% of the 31% professing Christians, and from there other cults/sects. etc.
Islam (24.1%)
No religion (16%)
Hinduism (15.1%)
Buddhism (6.9%)
Folk religions (5.7%)
Sikhism (0.3%)
Judaism (0.2%)

So, if the truth was known, ISLAM is by far the largest religious group on the face of this world, followed by RCC which makes up around 25%, and from there you can see the rest.

No, the above is very misleading. Number one, in the apparent presumption that all Muslims are on the same page, without many divisions of belief and practice between them. They are not. Even killing each other over such issues at times. So your argument against "Christianity" representing the largest religion of the world, is of course just as applicable to Muslims as it is "Christians". Making it a moot point.

Apart from this as well, is the RCC's past, present, and continuing agenda of bringing all of "Christianity" back together under her guiding influence. Which continues to be very successful to date. With many you suggest as separate from the RCC being back in communion with her, many also in the works presently, and the agenda of complete unity as the goal of course. And who is the prime motivator, orchestrator, financier, and compelling force behind this false ungodly unification of the above and all of humanity? The very organization you deny is BABYLON THE GREAT. Even though scripture clearly and concisely declares that she is the one who entices humanity to form such an apostate union. So be it. I will supply a small fraction of the historical Christian record and testimony which you deny in the following posts. All of which predates the existence of one Ellen G. White.
« Last Edit: Thu May 19, 2022 - 12:05:01 by Amo »

Offline Amo

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #7 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 12:00:15 »
The following testimony does not even scratch the surface of what actually exists concerning historical testimonies
regarding the subject at hand.

CHAP. 13 TESTIMONY OF THE REFORMERS


Unless otherwise specified, all of the following quotes are taken from the four volume series THE PROPHETIC FAITH OF OUR FATHERS by Le Roy Edwin Froom.


HILARY OF POITIERS  (300-368)

   “ He [Hilary] begins by speaking the blessings of peace, which the Christians of that day could neither enjoy nor promote, beset as they were by the forerunners of Antichrist…….. They bear themselves not as bishops of Christ but as priests of Antichrist. This is not random abuse, but sober recognition of the fact, stated by St. John, that there are many Antichrists. For these men assume the cloak of piety, and pretend to preach the Gospel, with the one object of inducing others to deny Christ. It was the misery and folly of the day that men endeavoured  to promote the cause of God by human means and the favor of the world. Hilary asks bishops, who believe in their office, wether the Apostles had secular support when by their preaching they converted the greater part of mankind……
    “ The church seeks for secular support, and in so doing insults Christ by the implication that His support is insufficient. She in her turn holds out the threat of exile and prison. It was her endurance of these that drew men to her; now she imposes her faith by violence. She craves for favors at the hand of her communicants; once it was her consecration that she braved the threatening of persecutors. Bishops in exile spread the faith; now it is she that exiles bishops. She boasts that the world loves her; the worlds hatred was the evidence that she was Christ’s……. The time of Antichrist, disguised as an angel of light, has come. The true Christ is hidden from almost every mind and heart. Antichrist is now obscuring the truth that he may assert falsehood hereafter.” (E. W. Watson, Introduction to Hilary of Poitiers, in NPNF, 2d series, vol. 9, pp. lii, liii.) Vol. 1, p. 409.


ARNULF bishop of Orleans during the pontificate of John XV (985-996)

    “What shall we say, revered fathers? To what blemish shall we attribute the fact that the first of the churches of God, once so lifted up and crowned with glory and honour, should be brought down so low and tarnished with shame and infamy? If we severely expect gravity of manners, purity of life, joined to sacred and profane learning, in every man who is ordained to the Episcopate; what ought not to be exacted in the case of him who aspires to be the teacher of all bishops. How, then, is it that those have been put in possession of that most high See, who were not worthy to fill any place whatsoever in the priesthood? What, in your eyes, reverend fathers, is that Pontiff, seated on a throne, and clad in purple and gold? If he hath not charity, and be puffed up with his learning only, he is Antichrist sitting in the temple of God, and demeaning himself as a god; he is like unto a statue in that temple, like a dumb idol, and to ask of him a reply, is to appeal to a figure of stone.” ( This English translation is from Villemain, op. cit., vol. 1 pp.175,176.) Vol. 1 chap. 22 p. 541&542

    “ Let us imitate the great church of Africa, which, in reply to the pretensions of the Roman Pontiff, deemed it inconceivable that the Lord should have invested any one person with his own plenary prerogative of judicature, and yet have denied it to the great congregations of his priests assembled in council in different parts of the world.” ( Quoted in Schaff, History, vol. 4, p. 291.) Vol. 1 chap. 22 p. 542


EBERHARD II, archbishop of Salzburg (1200-1246)

    “ Under the title of Pontifex Maximus, we discern, unless we are blind, a most savage wolf, with the garment of a shepherd; the Roman priests [flamines] have arms against all Christians; made great by daring, by deceiving, by bringing wars after wars, they slaughter the sheep, they cut them off, they drive away peace and harmony from the earth, they stir up internal wars, domestic insurrections from below, day by day they weaken more and more the energies of all, so that they revile the heads of all, they devour all, they reduce all to slavery.”  (Translated from Ioannes Aventinus, Annales Boiorum Libri Septem, p. 683.) Vol. 1 chap. 32 p. 799


   “ Both true and false concepts of the continuance of Rome powerfully influenced not only churchmen but statesmen, but the position taken by Eberhard in 1240-that the breakup of Rome gave rise to a group of smaller kingdoms, among whom afterward came up the relgio- political power of the historical Papacy as the Little Horn-became the standard interpretation of fourteenth-century Wyclif in Britain, then of sixteenth-century Luther and most of his associates, and next of Cranmer, Knox, and the bulk of British Reformers.  Practically all the post-Reformation writers on the Continent and in Britain and America declared the same.  Even the Jewish expositer Don Isaac Abravanel of Spain, in 1496, made a like explanation.
  This reformation view was the sort of belief which helped to nerve men to withstand the powerful forces under the command of the Papacy, and to go to the stake rather than yield to her spiritual despotism; for Protestant martyrs dared not obey her injunctions or follow her apostasies, and thus incur the displeasure of Heaven.  Therefore they no longer feared her anathemas.” (THE PROPHETIC FAITH OF OUR FATHERS, by Froom, vol. 1, chap. 32, p. 806)



FRANCESCO PETRARCH, Poet (1304-1374) Concerning the church of Rome.

HE INVEIGHS AGAINST THE COURT OF ROME

Vengeaunce must fall on thee, thow filthie whore
Of Babilon
, thow breaker of Christ's fold,
That from achorns, and from the water colde,
Art riche become with making many poore.
Thow treason's neste that in thie harte dost holde
Of cankard malice, and of myschief more
Than pen can wryte, or may with tongue be tolde,
Slave to delights that chastitie hath solde;
For wyne and ease which settith all thie store
Uppon whoredome and none other lore,
In thye pallais of strompetts yonge and olde
Theare walks Plentie, and Belzebub thye Lorde:
Guydes thee and them, and doth thye raigne upholde:
It is but late, as wryting will recorde,
That poore thow weart withouten lande or goolde;
Yet now hathe golde and pryde, by one accorde,
In wickednesse so spreadd thie lyf abrode,
That it dothe stincke before the face of God.
( Francesco Petrarch, Sonnet CV, translated by Wyatt  (?), in The Sonnets, Triumphs, and Other Poems of Petrarch, pp. 135, 136.)


    “ Thou Babylon, seated on the wild banks of the Rhone, shall I call thee famous or infamous, O harlot, who hast committed harlotry with the kings of the earth? Truly thou art the same that the holy Evangelist saw in spirit, the same, I say, and not another, sitting upon many waters. Either literally, being surrounded by three rivers, or, in the profusion of this world’s goods, among which thou sittest wanton and secure, unmindful of eternal riches; or, in the sense laid down by him that beheld thee, that the waters on which you the harlot sit are peoples and nations and languages. Recognize thine own features. A women clothed in purple and scarlet, decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand, full of abomination in the impurity of her fornication-Dost thou not know thyself, O Babylon? Unless perhaps what is written upon her forehead is wrong, Babylon the great, you indeed are Babylon the little.” ( Translated from Petrarch, Epistolarum Sine Titulo, Liber, letter headed Babylonem Gallicam Describit, in Opera, vol. 2, p. 807. )



WALTER BRUTE  fourteenth-century British or Welsh layman and Lollard scholar.

    “ Item, The said Walter hath oftentimes said, and commonly avouched, that the Pope is Antichrist, and a seducer of the people, and utterly against the Law and life of Christ,” (“Proceedings in the trial of Walter Brut for Heresy, Etc.,” original Latin in Registrum Johannis Trefnant, Episcopi Herefordensis, p. 279; translated in Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, p. 543.)

    “ If the high Bishop of Rome calling himself the Servant of the Servants of God, and the Chief Vicar of Christ in this World, do make and maintain many laws contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ; then is he of those that have come in Christ’s name, saying, I am Christ, and have seduced many a one, by the Testimony of our Savior in Math. Chap. 24. And the Idol of desolation sitting in the Temple of God and taking away from him the continual sacrifice for a time, times, and half a time, which Idol must be revealed to the Christian people by the testimony of Daniel. Whereof Christ speaketh in the Gospel; When ye shall see the abomination of desolation that was told of by Daniel the Prophet, standing in the holy place; let him that readeth understand.” (Registrum, p.287; Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, p. 545.)

    “ And sitting in the Temple of God, doth advance himself above all things that is called God, or whatsoever is worshipped, by the testimony of Paul to the Thess. 2 Epistle, Chap. 2. And in the defection or falling away shall the man of sin be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth….He is also besides, The Beast ascending up out of the earth, having two horns like unto a Lamb, but he speaketh like a Dragon, and as the cruel Beast ascending up out of the Sea, whose Power shall continue 42 months. He worketh the things that he hath given to the Image of the Beast. And he compelled Small and Great, Rich and Poor, Free-men and Bond-slaves, to worship the beast, and to take his mark in their Forehead or their Hands, Apoc. Chap. 13. And thus by the testimony of all these places is the chief Antichrist upon the Earth, and must be slain with the sword of God’s Word, and cast with the Dragon, the cruel Beast and the false prophet that hath seduced the Earth, into the lake of fire and brimstone to be tormented world without end.” (Registrum, p. 288; Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, pp. 545, 546.)

    “ If the city of Rome do allow his Traditions, and do disallow Christ’s holy Commandments, and Christ’s Doctrine, that it may confirm his Traditions; then is she Babylon the Great, or the Daughter of Babylon, and the Great Whore sitting upon many waters, with whom the Kings of the Earth have committed Fornication, and the Inhabitants of the earth are become drunken with the Wine of her Harlotry lying open to Bawdry. With whose spiritual Whoredom, Enchantments, Witchcrafts, and Simon Magus Merchandises, the whole round world is infected and seduced; saying in her heart, I sit as a Queen, and Widow I am not, neither shall I see Sorrow and mourning. Yet is she ignorant that within a little while shall come the day of her destruction and ruine by the Testimony of the Apoc. Chap. 17. Because that from the time of the continual Sacrifice was taken away, and that abomination of Desolation placed, there be passed 1290 days, by the Testimony of Daniel [chap. Xii.], and the Chronicles added to agree to the same. And the holy City also hath been trodden under foot of the Heathen, for forty two months, and the Woman was nourished up in the Wilderness (unto which she fled for fear of the face of the Serpent) during 1260 days, or else for a time, times, and half a time, which is all one. All these things be manifest by the Testimony of the Apocalyps, and the Chronicles thereto agreeing.” (Registrum, p. 288; Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, p. 546.)


POPES ARE ANTICHRIST BECAUSE THEY ARE PRIEST-KINGS.-
    “ Seeing then that the Bishops of Rome do say that they are the High Priests; they say also therein that they are Kings, because they say that they have the Scriptural Sword pertaining to their Priesthood, and the corporal Sword which agreeth for a Kings State. So is it plain, that really and in very deed, they say, That they are Christs, albeit that expressly they be not called Christs. Now that they come in the name of Christ it is manifest, because they say that they are his principal Vicars in this World, ordained of Christ specially for the Government of the Christian Church. Therefore, seeing they say, that really and in very deed they are Christs, and the chief friends of Christ: If they make and justifie many Laws contrary to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, then it is plain that they themselves in earth are the principal Antichrists, because there is no worse plague and pestilence, than a familiar enemy. And if in secret they be against Christ, and yet in open appearance they say that they are his friends, they are so much more the meet to seduce and deceive the Christian people.” (Registrum, pp. 300, 301; Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, p. 550.)


SIR JOHN OLDCASTLE  1360-1417

    “But as touching the Pope and his spirituality, I owe them neither suit nor service, forsomuch as I know him by the scriptures to be the great Antichrist, the Son of Perdition, the open Adversary of God, and the Abomination standing in the holy place.” (Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, p. 636.)

    “ My belief is (as I said afore) that all the scriptures of the sacred Bible are true. All this is grounded upon them I believe throughly. For I know it is God’s pleasure that I should do so. But in your lordly Laws and idle determinations have I no belief. For ye be no part of Christ’s holy Church, as your open deeds do shew: But ye are very Antichrists, obstinately set against His holy Law and Will….
    “ And let all men consider well this, That Christ was meek, and merciful; the Pope is proud, and a tyrant; Christ was poor and forgave, the Pope is rich and a malitious Man-slayer, as his daily acts do prove him. Rome is the very nest of Antichrist, and out of that nest come all of the Disciples of him. Of whom, Prelates, Priests, and Monks, are the body, these pil’d Friers are the tail, which covereth his most filthy part.” (Foxe, Acts, vol. 1, pp.640, 641.)


JOHN HUSS, OR HUS ( 1369-1415) 

“I beseech you in Christ Jesus, with all your fellow members of the University, to be prepared for a battle; for the reconnoiters of Antichrist have already begun, and the fight will soon follow. The Goose also must needs flap his wings against the wings of Behemoth, and against his tail, which always conceals the abomination of the beast Antichrist……. The Lord shall destroy the head and the tail- that is, the Pope and his prophets, masters, doctors, priests, who under the false pretext of sanctity conceal the abomination of the beast. Pray, what greater abomination can their be than a harlot who should parade herself and offer herself publicly? Yes, there is still greater abomination of the beast sitting in a place of honour and offering himself for worship to all comers, as though he were God: ready to sell whatever a man may wish to buy in matters spiritual. Yea, he sells what he does not possess. Woe be to me, then, if I shall not preach, weep, and write against such an abomination!” (The Letters of John Hus, edited by Herbert B. Workman and R. Martin Pope, Letter XXVI, pp. 118, 119.)

    “ Surely now the wickedness, iniquity, and baseness of Antichrist has been revealed in the Pope and his associates in the Council: now the faithful servants of God can understand the meaning of the Saviour’s words, When ye shall see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of by Daniel the prophet,….he that readeth, let him understand. Verily ‘a great abomination’ is pride, avarice, and simony: ‘in a place apart’- that is,dignity which lacks modesty, love, and other virtues; and this is whatwe clearly mark in those who win office and dignity. Would that I were allowed to point out their wickedness, in order that the faithful servants of God might beware of them! Gladly would I do so; but I am trusting that God will raise up others after me, braver men than there are to-day, who shall better reveal the wickedness of Antichrist and lay down their lives for the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, who will grant eternal joy both to you and to me. Amen. I write this letter in prison, on the day of St. John Baptist, as I lie bound in chains, remembering that St. John also was beheaded in prison for the sake of God’s truth.” (Ibid., p. 258.)

GIROLAMO SAVONAROLA (1452-1498) 

“The Roman church is full of simony and vileness…. I visualized a black cross over Babylon-Rome with the inscription: Wrath of the Lord. And it rained upon her swords and knives, lances and weapons of all kinds, as well as hailstones and brimstones in a terrible thunderstorm in deepest gloom. And I saw another cross of gold which reached from the sky over Jerusalem to the earth with the inscription: Mercy of God. And here was full sunshine. And on the strength of vision I declare again, that the Church must reform herself, and that very soon because God is angry.” (Savonarola, Auswahl, pp. 120, 121.)

    “ Fly from Rome, for Babylon signifies confusion, and Rome hath confused all the Scriptures, confused all vices together, confused everything. Fly, then, from Rome, and come to repentance.” (Villari, op. cit., p.413, citing Lenten Sermon (1496), for Wednesday after fifth Sunday.)

   
    “ ‘Come here thou ribald Church. The Lord saith: I gave thee beautiful vestments, but thou hast made idols of them. Thou hast dedicated the sacred vessels to vainglory, the sacraments to simony; thou hast become a shameless harlot in thy lusts; thou art lower than a beast, thou art a monster of Solomon, and soliciteth the world; he that hath gold is made welcome and may do as he will….. O prostitute Church…… thou hast multiplied thy fornications in Italy, in France, in Spain, and all other parts. Behold, I will put forth My hand, saith the Lord. I will smite thee, thou infamous wretch.” (Villari, op. cit., pp. 517, 518, citing Lenten Sermon XXII (1497), afterward suppressed by the Congregation of the Index.)

MARTIN LUTHER (1483-1546)

 “I will send you these compositions of mine, that you may judge whether I am right in my divination when I assert, that the true Antichrist mentioned by St. Paul reigns in the court of Rome and is, as I think I can prove, a greater pest than the Turks.” (Dr. Martin Luthers Sammtliche Schriften edited by Johann Georg Walch, vol. 15, col. 2430; translated in Waddington, History of the Reformation, vol. 1, p. 201. Hereafter Luther’s Schriften, without other specification, will mean this Walch edition.)

 “I am sifting the pontifical decrials with a view to my disputation [at Leipsig]; and, to whisper to you the truth, I am not determined whether the Pope be Antichrist himself or only his apostle, so cruelly is Christ (which is the truth) corrupted and crucified by him in his decrials. I am in perfect torture when I consider that the people of Christ are thus mocked, under the pretence of the laws and name of Christ.” (Luther, Schriften, vol. 21a, col. 156; translated in Waddington, History of the Reformation, vol. 1, p. 201.)

    “I am practically concerned, and can hardly doubt any more, that the Pope is really the Antichrist, whom the world expects according to a general belief, because everything so exactly corresponds to the way of his life, action, words, and commandments.” (Translated from Luther, Schriften, vol. 21a, col. 234. In all translation a faithful, literal rendering, rather than a free, literary translation, is followed.)

    “ We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist, against whose deceit and vileness all is permitted for the salvation of souls. Personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist.” (Luther, Schriften, vol. 15, col. 1693.)

    “ I cry aloud on behalf of liberty and conscience, and I proclaim with confidence that no kind of law can with any justice be imposed on Christians, whether by men or angels, except so far as they themselves will; for we are free from all. If such laws are imposed on us, we ought so to endure them as still to preserve the consciousness of our liberty. We ought to know and steadfastly to protest that a wrong is being done to that liberty, though we may bear and even glory in that wrong; taking care neither to justify the tyrant nor to murmur against the tyranny. ‘Who is he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good? (1 Pet. 3:13.) All things work together for good to the elect of God. Since, however, there are but few who understand the glory of baptism and the happiness of Christian liberty, or who can understand them for the tyranny of the Pope- I for my part will set free my own mind and deliver my conscience, by declaring aloud to the Pope and all papists, that, unless they shall throw aside all their laws and traditions, and restore liberty to the churches of Christ, and cause that liberty to be taught, they are guilty of the death of all the souls which are perishing in this wretched bondage, and that the papacy is in truth nothing else than the kingdom of Babylon and of very Antichrist. For who is the man of sin and the son of perdition, but he who by his teaching and his ordinances increases the sin and perdition of souls in the Church; while he yet sits in the Church as if he were God? All these conditions have now for many ages been fulfilled by the papal tyranny. It has extinguished faith, darkened the sacraments, crushed the gospel; while it has enjoined and multiplied without end its own laws, which are not only wicked and sacrilegious, but also most unlearned and barbarous.” (Luther, First Principles, pp. 196, 197 (Schriften, vol. 19. Cols. 70, 71).

    “ Neither is that which Matthew hath foretold, in ch. 24, touching that Horrible Abomination (to wit) Antichrist, a less certain Signs to me then [than] the former, namely that under his Kingdome, there should be and prevail, extream blindness, the most pernicious Errors, and the highest wickednesses. All which things do most wretchedly flourish in the kingdom of the Pope, and that in the greatest impudency and tyranny that can be.” (The signs of Christ’s coming and of the Last Day, the substance of a sermon of Martin Luther, p. 6.)


    “ Oh, Christ, my Lord, look down upon us and bring upon us thy day of judgment, and destroy the brood of Satan in Rome. There sits the Man, of whom the Apostle Paul wrote (2 Thess. 2:3,4) that he will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God,- that Man of Sin, that Son of perdition. What else is papal power but sin and corruption? It leads souls to destruction under thine own name, O Lord! …. I hope the day of judgment is soon to dawn. Things can and will not become worse than they are at this time. The papal see is practicing iniquity to its heights. He suppresses the Law of God and exalts his commandments above the commandments of God.” (Dr. Martin Luthers sammtliche Werke (Erlangen edition), vol. 21, p.339.)


PHILIPP MELANCHTHON (1497-1560)

 “ 18. Since it is certain that the pontiffs and the monks have forbidden marriage, it is most manifest, and true without any doubt, that the Roman Pontiff, with his whole order and kingdom, is very Antichrist.” (Translated from Melancthon, Disputationes, No. 56, “De Matrimonio,” in Opera (Corpus Reformation), vol. 12, col. 535.)

    “19. Likewise in Thess. II, Paul clearly says that the man of sin will rule in the church exalting himself above the worship of God, etc.
    “20. But it is certain that the popes do rule in the church, and under the title of the church in defending idols.
    “21. Wherefore I affirm that no heresy hath arisen, nor indeed shall be, with which these descriptions of Paul can more truly and certainly accord and agree than with this pontifical kingdom….
    “25. The prophet Daniel also attributes these two things to Antichrist; namely, that he shall place an idol in the temple, and worship [it] with gold and silver; and that he shall not honor women.
    “26 That both of them belong to the Roman Pontiff, who does not clearly see? The idols are clearly the impious masses, the worship of saints, and the statues which are exhibited in gold and silver that they may be worshiped.”
(Ibid., cols. 535, 536.)

NICOLAUS VON AMSDORF (1483-1565)

He [the Antichrist] will be revealed and come to naught before the last day, so that every man shall comprehend and recognize that the pope is the real, true Antichrist and not the vicar of Christ…. Therefore those who consider the pope and his bishops as Christian shepherds and bishops are deeply in error, but even more are those who believe that the Turk is the Antichrist. Because the Turk rules outside the church and does not sit in the holy place, nor does he seek to bear the name of Christ but is an open antagonist of Christ and His church. This does not need to be revealed, but it is clear and evident because he persecutes Christians openly and not as the pope does, secretly under the form of godliness.” (Nicolaus von Amsdorf, Funff furnemliche und gewisse Zeichen, sig. A4v.)

    ‘ This beast we know is the Roman Empire, which carries and supports the red Babylonian whore, which is the Papacy. The mark of the beast is the canons, the decrees and ceremonies of the Pope, and all ecclesiastical traditions concerning food, drink, and dress, singing, reading, and other childish things which have nothing to do with, nor belong to, the kingdom of God, which is true Christianity.” (Ibid., sig. D1r.-D2r.)

MATTHIAS FLAGIUS (Vlacich)  (1520-1575) 

The sixth and last reason for our separation from the pope and his followers be this: By many writings of our church, by the Divinely Inspired Word, by prophecies concerning the future and by the special characteristics of the papacy, it has been profusely and thoroughly proved that the pope with his prelates and clergy is the real true great Antichrist, that his kingdom is the real Babylon, a never ceasing fountain and a mother of all abominable idolatry.  (Flacius, Etliche Hochwichtige Ursachen und Grunde, warumb das sich alle Christen von dem Antichrist…..absondern sollen.)

ANDREAS MUSCULUS (1514-1581) ………And today we see and hear how the precious word has taken its course straight towards midnight and how it shall reach further and further till it comes to the very last hamlet of this world…..[On Matt. 24.9-they shall deliver you up to be afflicted and shall kill you] Whereas this was first fulfilled under the persecution of emperors….. Now since 800 years the pope of Rome from the beginning of his Antichristian kingdom has started to slay, to kill, and to destroy. Many a learned man, many pious Christians who have comprehended this abomination, protested against it, and refused to worship the Bride of Babylon, were put to death by him and exterminated.
(Translated from Andreas Musculus, Vom tungsten Tage.)

HULDREICH (ULRICH) ZWINGLI (1484-1531)  …….Not because they do any injustice to the Papacy, for I know that in it works the might and power of the Devil, that is, of the Antichrist. (Huldreich Zwingli, Hauptschriften [Principal Works], vol. 7, p. 135.)

If we would live Christlike, everybody would fall away from Popedom, because they would recognize that nothing else than deceitful pomp stands behind it. [In this spirit] everything undertaken toward its fall will succeed. And I request that we break the might of the Papacy not by the power of hate, but by the power of love to God and to our neighbor. (Ibid., p. 137.)

You are protecting all this disorder, this most wicked profession, this antichristian Papacy, although you see the bright shining light and perceive that all nations rejoice that the wickedness of the harlot, who deceived everybody, has been revealed. (Ibid., p. 199.)

The Papacy has to be abolished or it conceals itself until it suppresses again the gospel. But by no other means can it be more thoroughly routed than by the word of God (2 Thess. 2), because as soon as the world receives this [the word of God] in the right way, it will turn away from the pope without compulsion. (Ibid., p. 205.)

HEINRICH BULLINGER (1504-1575)

The scarlet woman of Revelation 17 is “the Romish church” and Rome the seat of the Beast. (Bullinger, A Hundred Sermons upon the Apocalips, preface; see also his Decades, decade 4, sermon 7, pp. 273 ff.)

The Pope is Antichrist because he usurps the keys of Christ and His kingly and priestly authority. (Ibid., sermon 6, p. 44.)

WILLIAM TYNDALE (1484-1536) 

And [they] have set up that great idol, the whore of Babylon, antichrist of Rome, whom they call pope; and have conspired against all commonwealths, and have made them a several kingdom, wherein it is lawful, unpunished, to work all abomination. (Tyndale, The Obedience of a Christian Man, in Works, vol. 1, p. 191.)

The apostles were clear-eyed, and espied antichrist at once, and put him to flight, and weeded out his doctrine quickly. But when charity waxed cold, and the preachers began to seek themselves, and to admit glory and honour of riches, then antichrist disguised himself after the fashion of a true apostle, and preached Christ wilily, bringing in now this tradition, and now that, to darken the doctrine of Christ; and set up innumerable ceremonies, and sacraments, and imagery, giving them significations at the first; but at the last, the significations laid apart, preached the work as an holy deed, to justify and put away sin, and to save the soul, that men should put their trust in works, and in whatsoever was unto his glory and profit; and under the name of Christ ministered Christ out of all together, and became head of the congregation himself.

The bishop of Rome made a law of his own, to rule his church by, and put Christ’s out of the way. All the bishops swear unto the bishop of Rome, and all curates unto the bishops; but all forswear Christ and his doctrine.

But seeing John took a sign of the last day, that he saw antichrist begin, how nigh ought we to think that it is, which, after eight hundred years reigning in prosperity, see it decay again, and his falsehood to be disclosed, and him to be slain with the spirit of the mouth of Christ. (Tyndale, The Exposition of the First Epistle of St. John, in Works, vol. 2, pp. 179, 180.)

Now though the bishops of Rome and his sects give Christ these names, yet in that they rob him of the effect, and take the significations of his names unto themselves, and make of him but an hypocrite, as they themselves be, they be the right antichrists, and deny both the Father and Son. (Ibid., p. 183.)

NICHOLAS RIDLEY (1500-1555) 

Yea, what fellowship hath Christ with Antichrist? Therefore is it not lawful to bear the yoke with papists. ‘ Come forth from among them, and separate yourselves from them, saith the Lord’.
(“Conferences…Between Nicholas Ridley and Hugh Latimer,” in Ridley, Works, p. 124.)

I acknowledge in no point that usurped supremacy of Rome, and therefore contemn and utterly despise all authority coming from him. (Ibid., p. 258.)

The head, under Satan, of all mischief is Antichrist and his brood; and the same is he which is the Babylonical beast, The beast is he whereupon the whore sitteth. The whore is that city, saith John in plain words, which hath empire over the kings of the earth. This whore hath a golden cup of abominations in her hand, whereof she maketh to drink the kings of the earth, and of the wine of this harlot all nations hath drunk; yea, and kings of the earth have lain by this whore; and merchants of the earth, by virtue of her pleasant merchandise, have been made rich.

Now what city is there in the whole world, that when John wrote, ruled over the kings of the earth; or what city can be read of in any time, that of the city itself challenged the empire over the kings of the earth, but only the city of Rome, and that since the usurpation of that See hath grown to her full strength? And is it not read, that old and ancient writers understood Peter’s former Epistle to be written at Rome, and it to be called of him in the same Epistle, in plain terms, Babylon! BY the abominations thereof, I understand all the whole trade of the Romish religion, under the name and title of Christ, which is contrary to the only rule of all true religion, that is God’s word.
(Ibid., p. 258)

The see is the seat of Satan; and the bishop of the same, that maintained the abominations thereof, is antichrist himself indeed. And for the same causes this see at this day is the same which St. John calleth is his Revelation Babylon, or the whore of Babylon, and spiritually Sodoma and Egyptus, the mother of fornications and of the abominations upon the earth. (“Letters of Bishop Ridley,” letter 32, in Works, p. 415.)

This whore of Babylon and the beast whereupon she doth sit maintained at this day with all violence of fire and sword, with spoil and banishment (according to Daniel’s prophecy), and finally with all falsehood, deceit, hypocrisy, and all kind of ungodliness - are as clean contrary to God’s word as darkness is unto light, or light to darkness, white to black, or black to white, or as Belial unto Christ, or Christ unto antichrist himself. (Ibid., pp. 415, 416.)

The whore of Babylon may well for a time dally with you, and make you so drunk with the wine of her filthy stews and whoredom (as with her dispensations and promises of pardon a poena et culpa), that for drunkenness and blindness ye may think yourself safe. But be ye assured,… the living Lord shall try the matter by the fire, and judge it according to his word….For he that is partner with them in their whoredom and abominations, must also be partner with them of their plagues, and on the latter day shall be thrown with them into the lake burning with brimstone and unquenchable fire. Thus fare ye well, my lords all. I pray God give you understanding of his blessed will and pleasure, and make you to believe and embrace the truth. Amen. (Ibid., p. 418.)


JOHN PHILPOT (1516-1555) 

St John in the Apocalypse telleth us plainly, that none of those who are written in the book of life do receive the mark of the beast, which is, of the papistical synagogue, either in their foreheads or else in their hands, that is, apparently or obediently….Finally, in the 18th of the Apocalypse, God biddeth us plainly to depart from this Babylonical synagogue, and not to be partakers of her trespass. St Paul to the Thessalonians commandeth us, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, to ‘withdraw ourselves from every brother that walketh inordinately, and not according to the institution which he hath received of him.’

Ponder therefore well, good brethren and sisters, these scriptures, which be written for your erudition and reformation; whereof one iota is not written in vain; which be utterly against all counterfeit collusion to be used of us with the papists in their fantastical religion. (Philpot, Examinations and Writings, letter1, p. 222.)

JOHN BRADFORD (1510-1555) 

Ah, wretches then that we be, if we will defile either part with the rose-coloured whore of Babylon’s filthy mass-abomination! It had been better for us never to have been washed, than so to wallow ourselves in the filthy puddle of popery: it had been better never to have known the truth, than thus to betray it. Surely, surely, let such men fear, that their ‘latter end be not worse than the beginning.’ (John Bradford in Writings [vol. 1] {Sermons, Meditations, Examinations}, vol. 1, p. 390.)

Wherefore I now am condemned and shall be burned as an heretic. For, because I will not grant the antichrist of Rome to be Christ’s vicar-general and supreme head of his church here and every where upon earth, by God’s ordinance. (Ibid., pp. 441,442.)

This bearer hath told me, that your desire is to have something sent to you concerning the usurped authority of the supremacy of the bishop of Rome, which is undoubtedly that great Antichrist, of whom the apostles do so much admonish us;………(Ibid., p. 142.)

JOHN HOOPER (1495-1555)

 Because God hath given this light unto my countrymen, which be all persuaded, (or else God send them to be persuaded!) that the bishop of Rome nor none other is Christ’s vicar upon the earth; it is no need to use any long or copious oration: it is so plain that it needeth no probation; the very properties of antichrist, I mean of Christ’s great and prinipal enemy, is so openly known to all men, that are not blinded with the smoke of Rome, that they know him to be the beast that John describeth in the Apocalypse. (Hooper, A Declaration of Christ and His Office, chap. 3, in Works, vol. 1[Early Writings], p. 24)

As the pope, under the title and pretence of God’s ministry, hath gotten himself not only a bishopric, but also the whole monarchy, in manner, of all Europe; a richer kingdom than any prince of the world; which never ceased from his beginning to move christian princes to most cruel and bloody war, under the cloak and mantle of God’s name. What means and craft hath he found to maintain this whorish and antichrist[ian] seat of abomination; idols, peregrinations, masses, dispensations, absolutions, defensions of all things abominable; tyrannies against virtue, establishments of his own laws, abrogations of God’s laws, emptying of heaven, and filling of hell, blessing of things exterior, oil, bell, bread, water, with other that be not cursed, and cursing of the souls that Christ redeemed with his precious blood; with a thousand more such abominations, under the name and pretence of God and his holy church, the which neither the patriarchs, neither the prophets, Christ, neither his apostles, never knew of, as both the testaments doth bear record. (Hooper, A Declaration of the Ten Commandments, chap. 6, in Works, vol.1, p. 325)

Of that wicked and pestilent see and chair of Rome, which is indeed the very whore of Babylon that St John describeth in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, sitting upon a seven headed beast, which St John himself interpreted to be seven hills, and the children in the grammar-school do know that Rome is called civitas septem montium, the city of seven hills. (Hooper, An Apology Against the Untrue and Slanderous Reports, in Works, vol. 2, p. 554.)

THOMAS CRANMER (1489-1556) 

And as for the pope, I refuse him as Christ’s enemy and antichrist, with all his false doctrines. (Cranmer, Works, vol.2, appendix, p. 566.)

I know in what office God hath placed me, and to what purpose; that is to say, to set forth his word truly unto his people, to the uttermost of my power, without respect of person, or regard of thing in the world, but of him alone. I know what account I shall make to him hereof at the last day, when every man shall answer for his vocation, and receive for the same good or ill, according as he hath done. I know how antichrist hath obscured the glory of God, and the true knowledge of his word, overcastting the same with mists and clouds of error and ignorance through false glosses and interpretations. It pitieth me to see the simple and hungry flock of Christ led into corrupt pastures, to be carried blindfold they know not wither, and to be fed with poison in the stead of wholesome meats. And moved by the duty, office, and place, whereunto it hath pleased God to call me, I give warning in his name unto all that profess Christ, that they flee far from Babylon, if they will save their souls, and to beware of that great harlot, that is to say, the pestiferous see of Rome, that she make you not drunk with her pleasant wine. (Cranmer, Works, vol. 1, pp. 6,7.)

After all these sprung up the pope, that tripled crown monster, and great antichrist, which took upon him authority, not only over the clergy, but also climbed above kings and emperors, deposing them at his pleasure, and settled himself in the temple of God, that is, in the consciences of men, extolling himself above God, dispensing with good laws, and giving men leave to break them, and to regard more his decrees than the everlasting commandments of God. (Ibid., vol. 2, p. 15.)

And in the seventeenth chapter he lively setteth forth the pope in his own colours, under the person of the whore of Babylon being drunken with the blood of saints; pointing, as it were with his finger, who this whore of Babylon is, and the place where she shall reign, saying: ‘The woman which thou sawest is that great city which reigneth over the kings of the earth.’ Now what other city reigned at that time, or at any time since, over the christian kings of the earth, but only Rome? Whereof it followed Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons. (Ibid., pp. 62, 63.)

Not content herewithal, more insolent than Lucifer, [the Pope] hath occupied not only the highest place in this world above kings and princes, but hath further presumed to sit in the seat of Almighty God.  Which only he reserved to himself, which is the conscience of man; and to keep the possession thereof, he hath promised forgiveness of sins totiens quotiens.

“He hath brought in gods of his own framing, and invented a new religion, full of gain and lucre, quite contrary to the doctrine of the holy scripture, only for the maintaining of his kingdom, displacing Christ from his glory, and holding his people in a miserable servitude of blindness, to the loss of a great number of souls, which God at the latter day shall exact at his hand: boasting many times in his canons and decrees, that he can dispense contra Petrum, contra Paulum, contra vetus et novum Testamentum; and that he, plenitudine potestatis, tantum potest quantum Deus; that is, ‘Against Paul, against the old and new Testament; and of the fulness of power may do as much as God.’  O Lord, who ever heard such blasphemy?  If there be any man that can advance himself above him, let him be judged antichrist.

This enemy of God and of our redemption is so evidently painted out in the scriptures, by such manifest signs and tokens, which all so clearly appear in him, that, except a man will shut up his eyes and heart against the light, he cannot but know him: and therefore, for my part, I will never give my consent to the receiving of him into this church of England, and you, my lord, and the rest that sit here in commission, consider well and examine your own  consciences: you have sworn against him: you are learned, and can judge of the truth.  I pray God you be not willfully blind.  As for me, I have herein discharged mine own conscience toward the world, and I will write also my mind to her grace (Queen Nary), touching this matter.” (Ibid., pp. 222, 223. The forthright letter written to Queen Mary in that same month, September, 1555, appears on pp. 447-554.)

John Bale (1495-1563) 

The great antichrist of Europe is the king of faces, the prince of hypocrisy, the man of sin, the father of errors, and the master of lies, the Romish pope. He is the head of the said pale horse, whose body are his patriarchs, cardinals, archbishops, bishops, fat prebends, doctors, priests, abbots, priors, monks, canons, friars, nuns, pardoners, and proctors, with all the sects and shorn swarm of perdition, and with all those that consent with them in the Romish faith, obeying their wicked laws, decrees, bulls, privileges, decrials, rules, traditions, titles, pomps, degrees, blessings, counsels, and constitutions, contrary to God’s truth. The wickedness of these hath so darkened the blind world, that scarce was left one sparkle of the verity of the christian faith. Nowhere can men dwell to greater loss of their souls’ health, than under their abominations. (Bale, The Image of Both Churches, in Select Works, pp. 325,326.)

By the monstrous, ugly, and most odious beast rising out of the sea, with seven heads and ten horns, is meant the universal or whole Antichrist, comprehending in him all the wickedness, fury, falsehood, forwardness, deciet, lies, crafts, sleights, subtilties, hypocrisy, tyranny, mischiefs, pride, and all other devilishness, of all his malicious members which have been since the beginning…….

No abomination nor mystery of iniquity, as Paul calleth it, was ever found in these kingdoms, but now reigneth manifold in the detestable papacy or monstrous kingdom of antichrist, as all the world may see. (Ibid., pp.420,423.)

With this stinking strumpet have the mighty potentates of the universal earth, the emperors, kings, princes, and other notable governors, committed most shameful whoredom in the spirit by many strange worshippings, agreeing among themselves to her wickedly decreed laws and customs. Too long should we stand here in this place, if we should describe them all severally in their colours at large as they be.

Through the crafty legerdemain of the priests on the one side, and the cruel constitution of princes on the other side, the dwellers of the earth or worldly-minded multitude are drunken with the wine of her fornication spiritual, or practiced worshippings besides the prescript rules of God’s word…..

And I saw (saith St John) in mystery a woman (for a whore at the first blush seemeth only a woman) sitting upon a rose-colored beast. This beast is the great antichrist that was spoken of afore, or the beastly body of the devil, comprehending in him popes, patriarchs, cardinals, legates, bishops, doctors, abbots, priors, priests, and pardoners, monks, canons, friars, nuns, and so forth; temporal governors also, as emporers, kings, princes, dukes, earls, lords, justices, deputies, judges, lawyers, mayors, bailiffs, constables, and so forth, learning their own duties-offices as to minister rightly, to serve their abominations. (Ibid., pp. 494-496.)

Edwin Sandys (1519-1588) 

He that sitteth in the temple of God, and termeth himself Christ’s vicar, doth in like sort offer unto the people bread, water, wine, milk, pardon of sins, grace, mercy, and eternal life; but not freely: he is a merchant, he giveth nothing, and that is nothing which he selleth. For although he make large promises to the buyer, he selleth that which he hath not to deliver. ‘Eternal life is the gift of God.’ The pope therefore selleth but wind and smoke for fire, shadows for truths: he deceiveth the buyers with false slights, false measures, false weights. Beware of this merchant, lose not your labour, cast not away your money: it is not meat but poison which he offereth you. His physic cannot heal your diseases; his holy water cannot wash away the spots of a sullied and defiled soul, as he untruly would bear you in hand; his blasphemous masses do not appease, but provoke God’s wrath; they cannot benefit the quick, much less the dead, which either need no help, or are past all help; his rotten relics cannot comfort you; his blind, dumb, and worm-eaten idols can do you no good. It is cast away which is spent upon his shameless pardons; they will not prevail-God will not admit them: by his Latin service ye cannot be edified, or made wiser. Yet this trumpery they sell for money, and upon this trash they cause silly men to waste their substance, and to these to commit their souls. Thus you see a manifest difference between Christ and antichrist. (Edwin Sandys, The Sermons of Edwin Sandys, pp. 11,12.)

Christ is obscured by that great enemy antichrist, ‘the man of sin,’ who hath set himself in Christ’s peculiar place, and will be ‘exalted above all that is called God.’ To make any other mediator between God and man, saving only Christ Jesus which is not only man, but also God; to seek elsewhere remission of sins, justification, redemption, sanctification, or salvation, that only in this Jesus, and in him crucified, doth darken and make dim both him and his merits. And of the treason the Romish antichristian church, which they term catholic, is found guilty. For the children of this harlot labour by all means to obscure the Son of God, to rob him of the glory of his deserts in our salvation. (Ibid., pp. 358,359.)

We do utterly abandon this usurped and proud authority: we have happily forsaken that synagogue of Satan.

This is our apostasy. We have forsaken him that hath forsaken God, and whom God hath forsaken: we have left that man of sin, that rose-colored harlot with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, that triple-crowned beast, that double-sworded tyrant, that thief and murderer, who hath robbed so many souls of salvation, and sucked so much innocent blood of christian martyrs, that adversary unto Christ, that pretensed vicar, who hath displaced the person, not only taking upon him Christ’s room and office, but also boasting himself as if he were a god, and being content of his parasites so to be called. This wicked man of sin is at length revealed by the sincere preaching of the gospel. Daniel in his prophecies, Paul in his epistles, and John in his revelations, have most lively described and pointed hin forth even as it were with the finger. Yea, through his pride and ambition, his usurping authority and worldly rule, his tyrrany and persecuting of Christ in his members, he hath sufficiently revealed and detected himself, if none had done it for him. (Ibid., p. 389.)

William Fulke (1538-1589)

The see being found, it is easy to find the person by S. Paul’s description; and this note especially, that excludeth the heathen tryants, ‘He shall sit in the temple of God:’ which when we see to be fulfilled in the Pope, although none of the eldest fathers could see it, because it was performed after their death, we nothing doubt to say and affirm still, that the Pope is that ‘Man of sin,’ and ‘Son of perdition,’ the adversary that lifteth up himself ‘above all that is called God;’ and shall be destroyed ‘by the spirit of the Lord’s mouth, and by the glory of His coming. (William Fulke, A Discovery of the Dangerous Rock of the Popish Church, in Works, vol.2 p. 373.)

And concerning the usurped power of the bishop of Rome, which he most wrongfully challengeth, as the successor of Christ and Peter, we may easily perceive how false, feigned, and forged it is, not only in that it hath no sufficient ground in holy Scripture, but also by the fruits and doctrine thereof. For our Saviour Christ and St. Peter teach, most earnestly and agreeably, obedience to kings, as to the chief and supreme rulers in this world next under God; but the bishop of Rome teaches, that they that are under him are free from all burdens and charges of the commonwealth and obedience towards their prince, most clearly against Christ’s doctrine and St. Peter’s. He ought therefore rather to be called Antichrist and the successor of the Scribes abd Pharisees, than Christ’s vicar or St. Peter’s successor. (“An Exhortation Concerning Good Order and Obedience To Rulers and Magistrates” [Third Part]. In Certain Sermons or Homilies Appointed To Be Read in Churches in the Time of Queen Elizabeth [1890 ed.], pp. 119, 120: see also Wylie, op. cit., vol. 3. P. 436.)

Jean (John) Calvin (1509-1564)

 I deny that see to be Apostolical, wherein nought is seen but a shocking apostasy-I deny him to be the vicar of Christ, who, in furiously persecuting the gospel, demonstrates by his conduct that he is Antichrist-I deny him to be the successor of Peter, who is doing his utmost to demolish every edifice that Peter built-and I deny him to be the head of the Church, who by his tyranny lacerates and dismembers the Church, after disserving her from Christ, her true and only head. (Calvin, Tracts, vol. 1, pp. 219, 220; see also Guiness, Romanism, p. 236.)

Daniel and Paul had predicted that Antichrist would sit in the temple of God. The head of that cursed and abominable kingdom, in the Western Church, we affirm to be the Pope. When his seat is placed in the temple of God, it suggests, that his kingdom will be such, that he will not abolish the name of Christ or the Church. Hence it appears , that we by no means deny that churches may exist, even under his tyranny; but he has profaned them by sacrilegious impiety, afflicted them by cruel despotism, corrupted and almost terminated their existence by false and pernicious doctrines; like poisonous potions, in such churches, Christ lies half buried, the gospel is suppressed, piety exterminated, and the worship of God almost abolished; in a word, they are altogether in such a state of confusion, that they exhibit a picture of Babylon, rather than the holy city of God. (Calvin, Institutes, vol. 2, pp. 314,315. The English translation of 1561, fol. 15v, gives the same thought, only in the quaint but often more ivivd phrasing of the time.)

Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption upon Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt. And lest anyone should object, that we improperly pervert to the Roman pontiff those words of Paul, which belong to a different subject, I shall briefly show that they are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy. Paul says that Antichrist ‘sitteth in the temple of God.’ In another place, also, the Holy Spirit, describing his image in the person of Antiochus, declares that his kingdom will consist in ‘speaking great words,’ or blasphemies, ‘against the Most High.’ Hence we conclude that it is rather a tyrrany over the souls of men, than over their bodies, which is erected in opposition to the spiritual kingdom of Christ. And in the next place, that this tyrrany is one which does not abolish the name of Christ or of his Church, but rather abuses the authority of Christ, and conceals itself under the character of the Church, as under a mask. Now, though all the heresies and schisms which have existed from the beginning belong to the kingdom os Antichrist, yet when Paul predicts an approaching apostasy, he signifies by this description that that seat of abomination shall then be erected when a universal defection shall have seized the church, notwithstanding many members dispersed in different places, persevere in the unity of the faith. But when he adds, that even in his days ‘the mystery of iniquity’ did ‘already work’ in secret, what it was afterwards to effect in a more public manner, he gives us to understand that this calamity was neither to be introduced by one man, nor to terminate with one man. Now, when he designates Antichrist by this character,-that he would rob God of His honor in order to assume it to himself,-this is the principal indication which we ought to follow in our inquiries after Antichrist, especially where such pride proceeds to a public desolation of the church. As it is evident therefore that the Roman pontiff has impudently transferred to himself some of the peculiar and exclusive prerogatives of God and Christ, it cannot be doubted that he is the captain and leader of this impious and abominable kingdom. (Ibid., vol. 2, pp. 410,411 [in 1561 ed., fol. 45v].)

JOHN KNOX (1505-1572) 

First, then, not only are all the impious traditions and ceremonies of the papists taken away, but also that tyranny which the pope himself has for so many ages exercised over the church, is altogether abolished; and it is provided that all persons shall in the future acknowledge him to be the very antichrist, and son of perdition, of whom Paul speaks.

The mass is abolished, as being an accursed abomination and a diabolical profanation of the Lord’s supper; and it is forbidden to all persons in the whole kingdom of Scotland either to celebrate or hear it. (The Zurich Letters [1st series], 1558-1579, p. 199.)

As for your Romane Church, as it is now corrupted, and the Authority thereof, wherein stands the hope of your Victory, I no more doubt but that it is the Synagogue of Sathan; and the head thereof, called the Pope, to be that man of Sin of whom the Apostle speaketh, then that I doubt that Jesus Christ suffered by the procurement of the visible Church of Jerusalem. Yea, I offer myself by word or writing, to prove the Romane Church this day farther to degenerate from the purity which was in the dayes of the Apostles, then was the Church of the Jewes from the ordinance given by Moses, when they consented to the innocent death of Jesus Christ. These words were spoken in the open audience of the Parish Church of Saint Andrews, after the said Dean John had spoken what it pleased him, and had refused to dispute. (Knox, The Historie of the Reformatioun of Religioun Within the Realm of Scotland, book 1, pp. 75, 76.)

As far as I am concerned I am absolutely convinced, that whatever is done in the Roman church is contradictory to Christ’s blessed rule, and is nothng else than a lethal poison; and whosoever drinks of it drinks death and damnation to himself…….

The malice of your bishops is only to evident, their impure lives contaminate the very air; the innocent blood they shed cries to God for vengeance; the idolatry and abominations they with impunity commit perverts and defiles the whole country. And none amongst you has the courage to do away with these villainies. Will not God consider you guilty? Do not decieve yourselves, dear bretheren. Do not sleep in your sins, for vengeance is near to all the disobedient. Flee from Babel, if you do not want to partake in her destruction. (Translated from Brandes, op. cit., p. 494.)

JOHN NAPIER  (NEPER)  (1550-1617) 

In the former proposition was described the holie Spouse of Christ, here is to bee described the filthie whoore of Sathan, there that Ladie, who is adorned with the Sunne, Starres, and heavenlie virtues: here that Adultresse, who glories in golde, silver, precious stones, and worllie pleasures: there shee, who is persecuted by the Dragon, here she unto whome the Dragon doeth give authoritie: There she, who is chaced into the wilderness, and hath no lodge to hide her in; here she who impireth above all people, and is the Metropolitane citie of the world. And finallie, seeing in al things this Whoore, or whoorish Babylon, is contrarious to Christes holie Spouse, lette us, and all Christians trie her out, as our detestable and deadlie enemie, and see what Babylon she is. We say then, that this Babylon, is not that reall Babylon of Chaldee, but Rome, for these reasons. First, for that this Babylon is called mysterium Babylon, that is to say, mysticall or figurative Babylon: Therefore, it is not Babylon it self in Chaldee. (John Napier, A Plaine Discovery of the Whole Revelation of Saint Iohn., p. 34. This first reason was supported by a series of supplemental arguments.)

For firste (saieth the text) the Woman that sate upon this Beast, is the great Citie, that sitteth over the Kings of the earth: So the chiefe seate and citie of the Latine or Romane Empire, is that great citie Rome, that had Empire overe all the kingdomes of the earth. Secondly, saith Daniel, there shal foure chief kingdomes arise upon the earth, under the figure of foure beastes: Whereof (by plaine interpretation hee saith) the fourth beast that had these ten horns, is the fourth kingdome of the earth: And so it is, that the firste greate kingdome or Monarchie being the Babylonians: The seconde, of the Medes and Persians: The thirde, of the Graecians. The fourth and laste, is certainlie the Monarchie of the Latines or Romanes:and therefore, that fourth beaste which both there in Daniel, & here in Iohns Revelation, hath ten horns, must necessarily be the Romane or Latine Empire. (Ibid., pp. 36,37; and introductory table.)

Cotton Mather (1663-1728) (Congregational Theologian)


"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an Antichrist in the Christian Church: and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them." 
Taken from The Fall of Babylon by Cotton Mather in Froom's book, The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 3, pg. 113.

John Wesley (1703-1791) (Methodist)

Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers... He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped...claiming the highest power, and highest honour...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone." 
Taken from Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms by John Wesley, pg. 110.


SECOND SCOTCH CONFESSION OF FAITH  In special, we detest and refuse the usurped authoritie of that Romane Antichrist upon the scriptures of God, upon the Kirk, the civill Magistrate, and consciences of men. (Philip Schaff, Creeds, vol. 3, p. 481.)

The statement from the Westminster Confession of Faith of the Church of England, which was later used by the Presbyterians, is significant:

There is no other head of the church but the Lord Jesus Christ, nor can the pope of Rome in any sense be head thereof, but is that antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition that exalteth himself in the church against Christ and all that is called God. (The Westminster Confession of Faith, Section 6, chapter 25)

Irish Articles of Faith (adopted in 1615):

"The Bishop of Rome...be that 'man of sin', foretold in the holy Scriptures."

Westminster Confession of Faith: "The Pope of Rome...is that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the church against Christ."

Savoy Declaration: "The Pope of Rome...is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition."

To be continued and finished in the next post -

« Last Edit: Thu May 19, 2022 - 12:17:30 by Amo »

Offline Amo

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #8 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 12:21:59 »
Baptist Confession 1688: "The Pope of Rome...is no other than Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition."

The Waldensian treatise
titled the Noble Lesson, dated 1100 A.D., stated: "Antichrist, the predicted murderer of the Saints, hath already appeared in his true character, seated monarchally in the seven-hilled city." In 1120 or 1160 A.D., A Treatise Concerning Antichrist identified the Pope of Rome as the Antichrist. George Faber identifies this as a production of Peter the Valdo (Faber, pp. 379-384).

In 1206, the Albigenses made the following confession: "That the Church of Rome was not the spouse of Christ, but the Church of confusion, drunk with the blood of the martyrs. That the polity of the Church of Rome was neither good nor holy, nor established by Jesus Christ" (Peter Allix, The Ecclesiastical History of the Ancient Churches of the Albigenses, 1821 edition, first published in 1692, p. 178).

All of the above testimony provided in this and the previous post, precedes EGW and the SDA church by hundreds of years. How say you she developed this testimony? We see the exact processes and identifying marks the Reformers detailed as their reasons for identifying the Pope and the RCC as the man sin, antichrist, Babylon, the whore, and the system of antichrist, being repeated in recent history and today. The deadly wound Babylon's first beast she rode suffered, is healing rapidly. She is presently mounting her second global beast unto healing her wound of 1798. These things are happening right before our eyes, much of which I have and do continue to chronicle here to date. There is far more than I could ever actually keep up with though, as many others attempt to do as well. Deny the mass of historical testimony which exists if you will, and what is happening right in front of your face as well. I will not. I cannot.

Offline Amo

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #9 on: Thu May 19, 2022 - 17:21:21 »
Quote
EGW, and the ones who believe the testimony of the Reformers, are not the ones promoting new teaching or doctrine RB. You are.

The above is a quote from one of my posts. For the purpose of clarification, I am not suggesting in the above, that viewing Islam as the system of antichrist is a new concept. It is not. Catholics and Protestants of the past have postulated this scenario. I am referring to the idea that the Babylon of biblical prophecy, is not the RCC or any other institution, but simply the world. As far as I know, this is fairly new. Or has never been supported and taught by any significant numbers of professed Christian faith. Correct me if I am wrong. As there is always much to learn.

Offline RB

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #10 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 04:54:41 »
Greetings Amo~I agree totally that the Reformers~ some before them and others after them ALL believe just as you posted saying that Pope was the man of sin/antichrist and the RCC was Mystery Babylon/beast of Revelation. There's some truth in that position without question, the error is they are LIMITING the man of sin to them only when the truth is that it is MUCH broader. I said above:
Quote from: RB on: Yesterday at 04:07:14
Also, as much as I admire the Reformers God did not reveal the man of sin to them as he has in our day with the many more false cults than they were faced with~I'm convinced if their day was as our, they would have had a much clearer understanding of the beast and the man of sin~and would not have limited their teachings to the RCC as they did. They never knew of Mormonism. Jehovah's Witnesses, and even your sect the SDA, not to mention Pentecostalism. which had its birth around 1903, or, so in Los Angles, California, and from that cult came many of their cousins, etc.
Whether or not you agree with this statement you must agree, that the years that have separated us from them, have revealed many more false cults and false prophets~even though the RCC with their wicked leader may very well be the most influential religious leader since the apostles. 

About you and I take a close look at 2nd Thess. 2 and see eaxtly what the Holy Ghost is saying to us through Paul~shall we?

Offline Amo

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Re: Islam and the Kings of the East~Revelation 16:12
« Reply #11 on: Fri May 20, 2022 - 08:04:05 »
Of course we know more. That is what historicist interpretation of biblical prophecy is all about. The unfolding of time reveals the details of biblical prophecy. Truth once established though, does not disappear. Nor does future increased understanding, contradict or negate that which God's prophetic word has already established. I do say again, that we see today, the reestablishment of the exact details the reformers identified as the marks revealing that the RCC is BABYLON THE GREAT. History is repeating itself. As would be expected if a biblical beast of prophecy which once dominated many governments of the world, received a deadly wound, and then recovered from that deadly wound. In another form of government making an image to that very beast. This is not rocket science. Though God intends only His own to understand and or accept the truth.

Yes, let's do examine exactly what God's word meant and means regarding 2 Thess 2. It should be interesting and revealing. No doubt we will come to differing conclusions.
« Last Edit: Fri May 20, 2022 - 21:03:05 by Amo »

 

     
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