Author Topic: Third Temple Materials Ready To Build It  (Read 1438 times)

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Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Third Temple Materials Ready To Build It
« Reply #35 on: Sun May 24, 2020 - 16:36:33 »
You’re missing the fine print again, robycop3.

Look carefully at WHEN God promised to do this “recovering” of both Israel and Judah.  Put an asterisk beside the Isaiah 11:11 phrase “the SECOND TIME” when God would recover His people.  You have to ask yourself, “If this prophecy is the SECOND TIME of recovering His people, then when was the FIRST TIME He recovered them?”  Identify that “FIRST TIME”, and then you will know that the very next time He recovered them would be that “SECOND TIME”.

Hint: the FIRST TIME is listed in the same context, in Isaiah 11:16.  The 2nd recovery of God’s people would be “like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt”, the FIRST TIME God had done so for His people.

And what was the very next SECOND TIME that God’s people were regathered out of the nations after their FIRST gathering out of Egypt in the Exodus?  It was in the post-exilic return after the 70 Babylonian captivity years were over.  These verses you have given are NOT verses about a regathering of Israel and Judah in our future.  God already made good on these promises back in the days of Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, the high priest Joshua, and Zerubbabel’s days.

You can’t just yank the timing of this prophecy out of its context like that, and transport it into our future on a whim.

Offline robycop3

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Re: Third Temple Materials Ready To Build It
« Reply #36 on: Mon May 25, 2020 - 13:40:40 »
You’re missing the fine print again, robycop3.

Look carefully at WHEN God promised to do this “recovering” of both Israel and Judah.  Put an asterisk beside the Isaiah 11:11 phrase “the SECOND TIME” when God would recover His people.  You have to ask yourself, “If this prophecy is the SECOND TIME of recovering His people, then when was the FIRST TIME He recovered them?”  Identify that “FIRST TIME”, and then you will know that the very next time He recovered them would be that “SECOND TIME”.

Hint: the FIRST TIME is listed in the same context, in Isaiah 11:16.  The 2nd recovery of God’s people would be “like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt”, the FIRST TIME God had done so for His people.

And what was the very next SECOND TIME that God’s people were regathered out of the nations after their FIRST gathering out of Egypt in the Exodus?  It was in the post-exilic return after the 70 Babylonian captivity years were over.  These verses you have given are NOT verses about a regathering of Israel and Judah in our future.  God already made good on these promises back in the days of Ezra, Nehemiah, Haggai, the high priest Joshua, and Zerubbabel’s days.

You can’t just yank the timing of this prophecy out of its context like that, and transport it into our future on a whim.

  Nice try, but no cigar.

  Judah & Israel were NOT made one nation at that time. And Judah was still under Persian rule. Judah was not a free, sovereign nation again til 72 years ago this month. And the Jews weren't mostly gathered. There are still more of them in the USA & likely Russia than there are in Israel. And there are NO other Israelis identified as such now.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Third Temple Materials Ready To Build It
« Reply #37 on: Mon May 25, 2020 - 15:58:06 »
LOL, not looking for any cigars from you, robycop3.  Thank you, but you can keep your stash of Havanas to enjoy.

Of course, members of the tribes from both Judah and Israel were reunited in the post-exilic return. That was the terms of the encouraging decree given by Cyrus in II Chron. 36:22-23 and Ezra 1:1-3.  Wherever in “ALL the kingdoms of the earth” that God’s people of any tribal lineage had been driven or scattered, Cyrus gave a decree that they should return to their homeland and Jerusalem, and rebuild their temple.

That’s what Ezekiel 37:16’s symbol of joining the two sticks into one stick meant: Ephraim (standing for the northern kingdom) and Judah (standing for the southern kingdom) would no longer harass or envy each other any more as the reunited people of God in post-exilic Jerusalem.  They were still subject to the Persians, but that didn’t prevent them from being reunited as a people in the post-exilic return.

God tells us WHEN He was going to do this regathering of both the southern and northern kingdom’s tribes into one people.  Ezekiel 39:25 says “Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; *NOW* will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon THE *WHOLE* HOUSE OF ISRAEL, and will be jealous for my holy name;”.   The word “NOW” eliminates this regathering of Israel and Judah from applying to a future-to-us reunification of the tribes.

As Ezekiel prophesied, this regathering of people from all the tribes would soon take place. The alienation and hostility between northern and southern kingdoms would be dissolved in a “covenant of peace” (Ez. 37:26).  As Is. 11 describes the joining of both kingdoms, the young ones of the “wolfish” northern kingdom would “lie down together” (in marital unions) with those of the “lamblike” southern kingdom.  “Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim” (Is. 11:13).  This was the case in the post-exilic return.

It was this peaceful co-existence of all the reunified tribes that was finally disrupted in the AD 66-70 era.  Remember when the second red horse rider of Rev. 6:4 would “TAKE PEACE FROM THE EARTH, and that they should kill one another”?  This was the Zealot uprising in AD 66 that broke that “stick” of union and created division among their own people, so that they ended up killing one another in civil conflict.

The time when that unified “stick” of Ezekiel 37:16 was finally broken is mentioned in Zechariah 11:14.  “Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.”  This was just prior to the AD 70 siege of Jerusalem described in Zech. 12:2 and following.

All of it is history long past, robycop3.

Offline robycop3

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Re: Third Temple Materials Ready To Build It
« Reply #38 on: Tue May 26, 2020 - 04:56:29 »
LOL, not looking for any cigars from you, robycop3.  Thank you, but you can keep your stash of Havanas to enjoy.
Just a "saying". I don't use tobacco.

Quote
Of course, members of the tribes from both Judah and Israel were reunited in the post-exilic return. That was the terms of the encouraging decree given by Cyrus in II Chron. 36:22-23 and Ezra 1:1-3.  Wherever in “ALL the kingdoms of the earth” that God’s people of any tribal lineage had been driven or scattered, Cyrus gave a decree that they should return to their homeland and Jerusalem, and rebuild their temple.

  No, just a few members of other tribes of Israel returned. This was not a mass migration of all Israel.

Quote
That’s what Ezekiel 37:16’s symbol of joining the two sticks into one stick meant: Ephraim (standing for the northern kingdom) and Judah (standing for the southern kingdom) would no longer harass or envy each other any more as the reunited people of God in post-exilic Jerusalem.  They were still subject to the Persians, but that didn’t prevent them from being reunited as a people in the post-exilic return.

...Except that it didn't happen then.

Quote
God tells us WHEN He was going to do this regathering of both the southern and northern kingdom’s tribes into one people.  Ezekiel 39:25 says “Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; *NOW* will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon THE *WHOLE* HOUSE OF ISRAEL, and will be jealous for my holy name;”.   The word “NOW” eliminates this regathering of Israel and Judah from applying to a future-to-us reunification of the tribes.

  The 'now' refers to the time immediately after the Gog-Magog war, which hasn't yet happened. And you can't have it two ways ! You said that war was the Zealot attack in Jerusalem, & there was certainly no regathering & restoration of Israel then ! Truth is, that war hasn't yet happened. Scripture tells us what nations will form a coalition against Israel.

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As Ezekiel prophesied, this regathering of people from all the tribes would soon take place. The alienation and hostility between northern and southern kingdoms would be dissolved in a “covenant of peace” (Ez. 37:26).  As Is. 11 describes the joining of both kingdoms, the young ones of the “wolfish” northern kingdom would “lie down together” (in marital unions) with those of the “lamblike” southern kingdom.  “Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim” (Is. 11:13).  This was the case in the post-exilic return.

  This was NOT a mass return of most, or all, Israelis to the land. Again, just a few members of the other tribes came.

Quote
It was this peaceful co-existence of all the reunified tribes that was finally disrupted in the AD 66-70 era.  Remember when the second red horse rider of Rev. 6:4 would “TAKE PEACE FROM THE EARTH, and that they should kill one another”?  This was the Zealot uprising in AD 66 that broke that “stick” of union and created division among their own people, so that they ended up killing one another in civil conflict.

  It really took SOME imagination to make THAT tall tale up !

Quote
The time when that unified “stick” of Ezekiel 37:16 was finally broken is mentioned in Zechariah 11:14.  “Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.”  This was just prior to the AD 70 siege of Jerusalem described in Zech. 12:2 and following.

All of it is history long past, robycop3.

  No, that cutting asunder took place when the 10 tribes rejected Rehoboam as king & made Jeroboam their king, abandoning the Davidic dynasty & beginning the emnity between Judah & Israel. Once they're rejoined, there's NO Scriptural dividing of them again. And again, this is still a FUTURE event.

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Re: Third Temple Materials Ready To Build It
« Reply #38 on: Tue May 26, 2020 - 04:56:29 »
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Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: Third Temple Materials Ready To Build It
« Reply #39 on: Tue May 26, 2020 - 09:19:17 »
Hey robycop3,

Sorry to imply that you are a cigar smoker, if this is a sensitive point of conscience with you.  No harm intended.

As for a total, “mass migration” of ALL the members of the tribes in the post-exilic return, scripture never promised this would occur.  The only stipulation of the regathering prophecies was that there would be members out of all of these tribes from Judah and Israel who would be reunited in their homeland.  They did not include the total number of ALL the people without a single exception.   

Cyrus even acknowledged in his decree that some would remain in the countries they had been scattered to, but said that they should help their fellow tribe members by sending money and goods to support those returning to their homeland (Ezra 1:4). 

As for the “NOW” term of Ezekiel 39:25, this is a transition break in the prophecy between God describing the FUTURE Gog warfare and what He PRESENTLY was going to do for the exiled tribes in those days.  In spite of the dreadful ending scenario He was predicting for the nation under Gog’s battle, there would presently be in Ezekiel’s days a time of restoration that God was going to  set up in the days of the post-exilic return that would PRECEDE the future disastrous fate of the nation.

Good things were “NOW” in the IMMEDIATE future intended for those exiles from Israel and Judah, even though at “the end of years” of the Old Covenant, their once re-unified nation would be broken again with the Zealots’ civil strife in the Gog warfare against it’s own people.

This Zealot uprising when they “took peace from the earth” by killing each other is not my imagination.  Zealotry is well documented in both scripture and Josephus’ writings.  Zealotry was considered a fourth philosophical element that divided Judean society along with the Pharisees, Sadducees, and Essenes in those days.  But you knew that, of course.

And you are misplacing the broken stick “Bands” prophecy on the calendar.  The division of the tribes under Rehoboam didn’t need to be prophesied; it had already taken place long before Zechariah’s time.  Zechariah’s broken stick “Bands” would be the breaking of Ezekiel’s joined stick of Ephraim and Judah, which breakup would be the final Zealot-led uprising when the nations represented within Gog’s army would fight against its own people in AD 69-70.

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Re: Third Temple Materials Ready To Build It
« Reply #39 on: Tue May 26, 2020 - 09:19:17 »



Offline dpr

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Re: Third Temple Materials Ready To Build It
« Reply #40 on: Fri Oct 23, 2020 - 11:17:20 »
No, dpr, that “building”, “planting”, and “not plucking them up” applied only to the ones participating in the post-exilic return.  It did not give an assurance to every single person in perpetuity who calls themselves a descendent of some tribe of Israel.  It did NOT “shove it forward in time” as you suppose.

You DO remember the fruitless fig tree that Christ cursed in Jerusalem, don’t you?  “No man eat fruit of thee hereafter forever”, He said (Mark 11:14).  If you want to compare ethnic Israel to the fig tree, then sure, let’s go with the final curse put on the fig tree.  As an ethnic “Holy people”, that particular designation for Israel ceased to exist long ago.  That “bond woman and her son” has been cast out.  Why do you want to welcome that entity back with open arms again?

You clearly did not understand what I wrote, not even certain you even read it.

Per 1 Kings 11 forward, God split the old kingdom of Israel into two separate kingdoms. He did that in the days of Solomon and his son Rehoboam. God made Jeroboam of the tribe of Ephraim king over the ten northern tribes, which was called the "kingdom of Israel". But Rehoboam of the house of David was king over the southern "kingdom of Judah" (tribes of Judah and Benjamin only).

Per 2 Kings, God removed the northern ten tribes out of the land first, captive to Assyria and the land of the Medes. That was about 120 years PRIOR to Judah's captivity by Nebuchadnezzar to Babylon. By then, the Jews were only made up of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, and then the strangers that lived among Judea that took the title of Jew also. Those are who went captive to Babylon for 70 years.

AFTER... the 70 years, only a small remnant of the "house of Judah" (those I mentioned before) actually returned to Jerusalem (per Ezra and Nehemiah). And THOSE... are who God is speaking of in the fig parable to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 24. It was a prophecy that did not yet happen in Jeremiah's day, but was meant for the latter days obviously, because one of the major parameters of the prophecy was God's promise not... to remove Judah out of the land again. Well, we know for certain that wasn't fulfilled during the time of the Romans, because in 70 A.D. the Romans scattered the Jews out of the holy land, what is called the Diaspora. Only since that time have Jews been slowly returning to the holy land. And in 1948, the United Nations voted to allow the creation of the Jew's nation state of Israel again.

Now if the Jews are ever removed again in our future, then the Jeremiah 24 prophecy would be slid into the future. But right now, as of 1948, that prophecy is fulfilled with Judah returning. It is NOT about all Israel returning, meaning the "house of Israel" with them, because the ten tribes are to remain lost as to who they are until Jesus returns in the future. The Jews don't even know today where the ten lost tribes of the northern kingdom are. And they, the ten tribes themselves, mostly do not know their old heritage as part of Israel. But in Amos 9, God promised He will gather them in final, and not even the least grain will fall to the ground.




 

     
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