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Offline notreligus

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What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« on: Thu Aug 03, 2017 - 08:37:24 »
What does the Millennium mean to you?

There are two basic traditional beliefs.  One is that this current "church age" is the Millennium and it is not tied to a specific 1,000 year time period.  The other is the belief that after the seven-year Tribulation Period Jesus will return and rule over His people for 1,000 years on this Earth.   These two basic beliefs are oftentimes right where the knowledge behind these beliefs end.  For example, who are "His people"?   That's even more important to understand.   

What are your thoughts?   

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What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« on: Thu Aug 03, 2017 - 08:37:24 »

Offline RB

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #1 on: Thu Aug 03, 2017 - 09:09:43 »
The term Millennium is from the two Latin words [mille], meaning thousand, and [annum], meaning years. It is not a biblical term but is used by many scholars and authors to identify the thousand years when calculated from the traditional date of the birth of Christ. It is mostly used to identify the thousand year reign of Christ that is spoken of in Revelation Chapter 20. In Christian theology, the millennial refers to that period of time when Scripture declares that Satan is bound and the Kingdom of Christ goes forth that the nations or Gentiles aren't deceived or, meaning they are not led astray. It is the era when the Gentiles are included in the Covenant and will be reconciled to God that they join in the celebration of the reigning Christ. There are several different positions concerning exactly when and how this millennial reign will take place, usually depending upon the eschatology one holds. But basically, in theology, the words millennium or millennial are synonymous with the "thousand years" reign of Christ (Revelation 20:2-4).

In secular vocabulary, millennial period or a millennium is referring to whenever a new thousand years of recorded history passes. For example, the years 1000 A.D., or
2000 A.D is spoken of as the beginning of a new millennium. The year 2001 instituting the beginning of the third millennium.
Quote from: notreligus asked
What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
It's the time when the prince of the power of the air was bounded (or, his power restrained) so that the gospel could go out into all the world to gather together the tabernacle of David (that had fallen in the first Adam but rebuilt by the second Adam) among the Gentiles to complete the holy temple where God shall dwell world without end.

In short~The one thousand years is a period in which Christ is on David's throne at God's right hand~see Acts 2:32-36~one thousand years given to denote the totality of time known only to God, but covers a period from the resurrection of Christ, until he returns again at the last day. During this time Christ is reigning IN HEAVEN waiting till God puts all his enemies under his feet and the last enemy is death, then at that time Christ himself shall be subject to God, who had put all things under his Son, then both Christ and his people shall reign in the new heavens and earth, world without end. See 1st Corinthians 15:24-28
« Last Edit: Thu Aug 03, 2017 - 09:13:18 by RB »

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #1 on: Thu Aug 03, 2017 - 09:09:43 »

Online 4WD

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #2 on: Thu Aug 03, 2017 - 09:14:00 »
Good one, RB.

+1

Offline fish153

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #3 on: Thu Aug 03, 2017 - 19:04:24 »
That the Devil has NOT been bound is very obvious when we look at history. This is a yet future event----his thousand years in chains will coincide with the thousand
years that Christ will reign on earth.  Man has lived through various time periods, the last being the church age (which has lasted almost 2000 years)---I believe it has been
2000 years long because it is the age of GRACE.  After this period ends comes the Tribulation----which will lead into the Millenium. 

The Milienium will show both men and angels what life looks like under complete Righteousness-----with no devil to deceive and tempt.  However, as we read in Revelation,
this 1000 years will neither reform the devil, nor reform mankind.  Man is utterly helpless without the Grace of God---and man, even after 1000 years of freedom will still
choose to return to evil (at least a large portion of them will).  The angels will see and learn that Satan cannot be "reformed" and cannot repent-----even after having been
given a thousand years to contemplate what He has done to the earth.

The Millenium is yet future----and to teach otherwise is in my opinion foolishness.

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #3 on: Thu Aug 03, 2017 - 19:04:24 »
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Offline notreligus

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #4 on: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 01:12:09 »
That the Devil has NOT been bound is very obvious when we look at history. This is a yet future event----his thousand years in chains will coincide with the thousand
years that Christ will reign on earth.  Man has lived through various time periods, the last being the church age (which has lasted almost 2000 years)---I believe it has been
2000 years long because it is the age of GRACE.  After this period ends comes the Tribulation----which will lead into the Millenium. 

The Milienium will show both men and angels what life looks like under complete Righteousness-----with no devil to deceive and tempt.  However, as we read in Revelation,
this 1000 years will neither reform the devil, nor reform mankind.  Man is utterly helpless without the Grace of God---and man, even after 1000 years of freedom will still
choose to return to evil (at least a large portion of them will).  The angels will see and learn that Satan cannot be "reformed" and cannot repent-----even after having been
given a thousand years to contemplate what He has done to the earth.

The Millenium is yet future----and to teach otherwise is in my opinion foolishness.

Who will be present during the Millennium?  Please answer that.

Have you been given 1,000 years to determine who Christ is?   Jesus told the Jews that they were condemned because they had rejected what Moses had already told them about the Messiah.   The Devil was revealed a long time ago.  Peter said that the Devil seeks whom he may devour.  The Devil is not powerless but his power is limited since his defeat at Calvary.

Mankind have been given two thousand years already to accept or reject Christ.  Even a remnant of Jews now believe that Jesus is the Messiah, so we can't say that God has been using moth balls to preserve them all of this time.   

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #4 on: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 01:12:09 »



Offline notreligus

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #5 on: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 01:51:05 »
The term Millennium is from the two Latin words [mille], meaning thousand, and [annum], meaning years. It is not a biblical term but is used by many scholars and authors to identify the thousand years when calculated from the traditional date of the birth of Christ. It is mostly used to identify the thousand year reign of Christ that is spoken of in Revelation Chapter 20. In Christian theology, the millennial refers to that period of time when Scripture declares that Satan is bound and the Kingdom of Christ goes forth that the nations or Gentiles aren't deceived or, meaning they are not led astray. It is the era when the Gentiles are included in the Covenant and will be reconciled to God that they join in the celebration of the reigning Christ. There are several different positions concerning exactly when and how this millennial reign will take place, usually depending upon the eschatology one holds. But basically, in theology, the words millennium or millennial are synonymous with the "thousand years" reign of Christ (Revelation 20:2-4).

In secular vocabulary, millennial period or a millennium is referring to whenever a new thousand years of recorded history passes. For example, the years 1000 A.D., or
2000 A.D is spoken of as the beginning of a new millennium. The year 2001 instituting the beginning of the third millennium. It's the time when the prince of the power of the air was bounded (or, his power restrained) so that the gospel could go out into all the world to gather together the tabernacle of David (that had fallen in the first Adam but rebuilt by the second Adam) among the Gentiles to complete the holy temple where God shall dwell world without end.

In short~The one thousand years is a period in which Christ is on David's throne at God's right hand~see Acts 2:32-36~one thousand years given to denote the totality of time known only to God, but covers a period from the resurrection of Christ, until he returns again at the last day. During this time Christ is reigning IN HEAVEN waiting till God puts all his enemies under his feet and the last enemy is death, then at that time Christ himself shall be subject to God, who had put all things under his Son, then both Christ and his people shall reign in the new heavens and earth, world without end. See 1st Corinthians 15:24-28

Good post, but I hope to engage others in discussing their beliefs about the Millennium and not slam the door early on.   There are plausible reasons for believing in a future Millennium and I would like for others feel comfortable in stating them.   Millennialism as most of us know it or have heard of it (if it were ever presented to you in your church fellowship)in this country was born out of the teachings of Lewis Sperry Chafer of Dallas Theological Seminary, and since his early Full Dispensational teaching the seminary has taught a "lite" version called Partial Dispensationalism, but both insist that Israel and the Church are treated as separate entities by God.    I was indoctrinated into Partial Dispensationalism in, of all places, a Church of Christ congregation with a Zionist senior minister and a couple of Zionist elders.   That view is not taught much in the Churches of Christ since Alexander Campbell was Post-Millennial in his views.   

Anyway, I hope that others will make comments in this thread and make their cases for their views about a still future Millennium.   

Offline RB

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #6 on: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 04:43:03 »
That the Devil has NOT been bound is very obvious when we look at history..
What history are you using? The only history that should be used is the OT scriptures and then compare the nation of Israel with all other nations of the Gentiles and THEN go to the NT and compare the Jews to the Gentiles nations since the days of the apostles until now, and then you will understand the sense in which we are to understand in which Satan was bounded and in what sense he shall be loose using the gospels and NT scriptures to guide us.

Now my question to you my brother is this? Did the Gentiles nations worship the true God in OT times? No. They worship everything under heaven but Jehovah. They did not know who Jehovah was, except a few to whom the arm of the LORD was revealed to~but very, very few.

Did any nation under heaven do so? Only one, and they were the nation of the Jews. And even among the Jews ONLY the very elect did so, others did worst than the Gentiles.

We ask, why? Because Satan was not bounded as far as his power in the air was concern~he had the whole world under his power using them to work all manner of wickedness.

After the cross and the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the prince of this world was cast out (See John 12:30,31...Drawing all men, meaning Jews AND GENTILES~not all without exception, but all without distinction) as far as deceiving the masses....Gentiles nations as he did so effectively in the OT~while the church made up of mostly Gentiles were being gathered together to form one holy temple for an everlasting habitation for the God through the Spirit. See Ephesians 2:11-3:11; and also consider Romans 11:30-36

This being said, we also understand the little season of Revelation 20 and other places in the Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, that this little season will be a time at the end of this dispensation and just before the coming of Christ, that Satan ONCE AGAIN shall receive back his ungodly power by God removing his restrained upon the old serpent because the Gentiles churches/temples AS WELL AS ISRAEL OF OLD, shall forsake the true God in the sense of rejecting his truth for their own man made form of worship turning the God's people out and standing in those temples DECLARING that they are God, outwardly saying that Jesus is the Christ, but it is a Jesus of their own liking. They will reject his truth for what is more acceptable to their corrupt minds. They WILL have a form of godliness but will deny the power thereof. See 2nd Thess. 2; 2nd Timothy 3-4:5.

Jesus warned us of these days in Matthew 24; Mark 13 and Luke 2; and reiterated in highly symbolical language by John in Revelation 4-20 which can be understood by comparing Daniel 7-12 and using Jesus' words from Matthew 24 and Paul's and John's from 2nd Thess 2 and 1st John 2..doing so, Revelation becomes a book where we can understand John's message consummated in Revelation twenty.
Quote from: Fish 153
his thousand years in chains will coincide with the thousand years that Christ will reign on earth.
Brother, where in the NT do you read that Christ will reign on THIS EARTH? He IS reigning NOW according to the Apostle Peter in Acts two that I gave above. Just give me one clear Scripture proving what you just said. If you cannot do so, then you just might want to reconsider your understanding, which I believe you will, for you have no support for making such a statement. You are only echoing what you have heard others say. ANY OT scriptures using the word earth MUST be interpreted by the Apostles use of the word earth, meaning the NEW EARTH.

« Last Edit: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 04:46:42 by RB »

Online 4WD

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #7 on: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 06:09:36 »
That the Devil has NOT been bound is very obvious when we look at history.

You are wrong and that is because you have inserted your own idea what the binding of Satan must mean rather than what seeking to understand what the binding of Satan means biblically.

This is long but important if you really care to learn what the Bible says on the subject.



The Binding Of Satan

The first three verses of Revelation 20 describes an event that surely sends a thrill through every Christian’s heart; the binding of Satan.  The text says,

   1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

My Strong conviction is that Jesus bound the devil when he came the first time.  Many find it extremely difficult to accept this idea, mainly because they hear the words ”binding of Satan” and formulate their own idea of what this must mean before they examine the Biblical data.  If Satan is bound, they think, then there should not be any sin or even temptation on the earth.  But sin obviously was not eliminated by Christ’s first coming and is still abundant on the earth today.  Would one not have to be blind to think that Satan is bound in times like these?

The key to understanding the binding of Satan is to pay close attention to what the Bible actually says about it, not only in Rev 20:1-3 but elsewhere in the NT as well.  Regarding the latter we begin with the way Scripture describes the purpose of Christ’s first coming.  Among other things, it is specifically taught that Jesus came to deal with the devil.  1 John 3:8 says,  “The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.”  Among Satan’s works are falsehood and death (John 8:44; Heb 2:14), but Jesus came “to testify to the truth” (John 18:37; see John 8:31-47).  He has already “abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel” (2 Tim 1:10).

Jesus came not only to destroy Satan’s works but to “destroy” Satan himself.  Hebrews 2:14 clearly states that Jesus came the first time “so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death – that is, the devil”  The word rendered “destroy” by the NIV (katargeo) does not necessarily mean “to annihilate, to abolish  completely.”  Obviously Jesus did not do this to Satan at his first coming.  But the word also can mean “to set aside, to make ineffective, to nullify, to render powerless.”  This is the better understanding here, as in the NASB: Christ come to “render powerless him who had the power of death, that is, the devil.”

Either way this is very strong language.  John says Jesus came specifically to destroy the devil’s works;  Hebrews says he came to render the devil powerless.  We must ask, if this is why Jesus came, did he actually accomplish these things or did he fail?  Surely it would be blasphemous to say the latter.  Therefore we conclude that Jesus destroyed Satan’s works and rendered him powerless from “the binding of Satan” in Rev 20:1-3).  If anything, the language of 1 John and Hebrews is even stronger than that of Revelation 20.

What about the expression, “the binding of Satan”?  Does this specific language appear elsewhere in Scripture”  The answer is yes.  In Matt 12:29 (and Mark 3:27) it is used to describe what Jesus was doing during his first advent.  Throughout Jesus earthly ministry he was already limiting Satan’s power, especially through his many victorious encounters with demonic spirits who had taken over people’s bodies.  By casting out demons Jesus was demonstrating his power over Satan’s kingdom; he was winding the chains around the devil’s neck.

Jesus made this very claim in connection with an exorcism recorded in Matt 12:22-30 (see Mark 3:22-27; Luke 11:14-23).  Here Jesus explains that in casting out demons he is not working with Satan but against him.  He uses the illustration of a strong man who is holding people captive in his house, and a stronger man who attacks and overpowers the captor and sets the captives free (Luke 11:21-22).  As he explains in Matt 12:29, “or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry of his property, unless he first binds the strong man?  And then he will plunder his house.”  By casting out demons Jesus was already in the process of binding the devil (the “strong man”) during his earthly ministry.

Jesus also gave his disciples the authority to cast our demons (Matt 10:1).  In Luke 10:1-20 he sent out 70 evangelists with similar authority.  When they returned, they joyfully reported, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name” (Luke 10:17).  Jesus replied, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning” (Luke 10:18).  Satan’s “fall from heaven” here is not his prehistoric, initial sin; it refers to the defeat he was experiencing through Christ’s power at the hands of the disciples at that very time.  This is the same event described symbolically in Rev 12:7-9,

And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon.  The dragon and his angels waged war, and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.  And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Again this is not Satan’s initial sin, but his defeat at the hands of the Messiah at the latter’s first coming (Rev 12:1-6).

The death blow against Satan was struck in the death and resurrection of Jesus (see Gen 3:15; John 12:31-33; Col 2:15).  On the eve of his crucifixion Jesus announced his imminent mortal combat with the devil (John 14:30).  Through his own death he rendered Satan powerless (Heb 2:14), and through his resurrection the victory was complete.  The risen victor declares, “I am the first and the last, the living One, and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades “ (Rev 1:17-18).  The keys here are the same as ”the key of the abyss” in Rev 20:1.  A key is symbolic of power and authority.  Through his death and resurrection Jesus gained power over the abyss – realm of death, Satan’s proper domain; and with that power he both locks Satan himself in the abyss and rescues those who have been held captive there (Heb 2:15).  Revelation 20:1-3 thus symbolically represents Christ’s present control over Satan and his works, and the consequent limitation of his power.

Some will still be skeptical that “the binding of Satan” has been a reality since Christ’s first coming.  Again this is because they have created their own idea of what this should entail, i.e., the earth should be a perfect place, free from sin and filled with righteousness, peace, and prosperity.  But this is not how things have been.  So how can this be the millennium?  How can we accept the idea that Satan is bound now?  We can do this if we do not jump to unwarranted conclusions about the results of Satan’s binding.  Does the Bible actually say that this binding will result in a paradise-like world?  No.  In fact, Rev 20:3 states very specifically that the single purpose of Satan’s binding is “so that he would not deceive the nations any longer.”

The question is whether this was actually a result of Christ’s first coming, and the answer is yes.  Satan’s main activity is deception.  John 8:44 says, ‘he is a liar and the father of lies.”  Revelation 12:9 describes him, prior to his defeat at Christ’s first coming, as the one “who deceives the whole world,”  He is the source of lies, false teachings, false religions, and all idolatry.  With the exception of Israel, prior to Christ’s first coming the entire world – all nations as nations – was totally engulfed in Satan’s lies, languishing in darkness (see Rom 1:18-32).  But what happened when Christ came?  He accomplished the works of redemption, thus defeating the devil and his hosts.  The gospel  --  the good news about the saving power of Christ  --  is the gospel truth that dispels Satan’s lies and brings light and life to all the world (2 Tim 1:10),

This is exactly how the risen Jesus described Paul’s mission to the Gentiles, i.e., to the nations: “to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me” (Acts 26:18).  this tells us that prior to the preaching of the gospel, the nations were in darkness; they were the domain of Satan.  But as the gospel has been preached “to all the nations” in obedience to the Great Commission (Luke 24:47; see Matt 28:18-20, Mark 16:15), multitudes “from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues” (rev 7:9) have been delivered from captivity to the devil.  In terms of Rev  20:1-3, the truth of the gospel of Jesus Christ is the chain that binds Satan, so that is not able to deceive the nations any longer.

This does not mean that Satan is doing nothing today.  He still roams about, like a roaring lion, seeking to devour us (1 Pet 5:8).  But Christ has established a safety zone, as it were, a place where Satan has no power.  It is the church, which is the realm over which Christ reigns in his millennial kingship, a haven from the forces of death (Matt 16:18), and “the pillar and support of the truth” (1 Tim 3:15).  Anyone who accepts the truth of the gospel and surrenders to the Lordship of Christ is rescued from captivity to Satan and set free to live beyond the reach of his lying mouth and slashing claws.

The results of Christ’s initial binding of Satan are bestowed on individuals.  When one makes his choice to follow Christ instead of Satan, the almighty power of Jesus Christ binds the devil in reference to that person’s life.  Jesus has already bound the strong man as such; when we preach the gospel and convert individuals, we are in effect plundering the strong man’s house and carrying off his property (Matt 12:29).  Because this has already been done on a worldwide basis, with practically every nation being exposed to Christ’s liberating power to some degree, it can no longer be said that Satan is deceiving the Nations.  Therefore, in terms of Rev 20:1-3, he is bound .  The millennium is now! [/color]
« Last Edit: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 06:14:11 by 4WD »

Offline RB

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #8 on: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 06:47:15 »
This is long but important if you really care to learn what the Bible says on the subject.
Not too long~How long would one stand in a line IF they knew that waiting there they would receive a treasure more valuable than gold or silver? The truths of God's word has much more value than gold or silver that shall in due time perish!

Btw~+1

Offline Amo

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #9 on: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 21:50:01 »
Rev. 20&21 The thousand years and the new Jerusalem

Rev 20: 1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, 3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


We will now examine the thousand year period of Rev. 20. A correct understanding of this time period is very important. Verses one through three, are referring of course to the leader of the lost, Satan himself. During this thousand year period, Satan is bound in the bottomless pit. We will discuss just what the bottomless pit is after we finish with the thousand year period. Not only is Satan bound during this thousand years, but he is not able to deceive the nations anymore during this same time. The scriptures themselves will tell us why this is so.

Verse four, switches the topic to that of the saved during this same thousand years. It states that the judgment was given unto them. The saints then, are involved in the work of judgment during this thousand year period. Paul makes reference to this event in 1 Corinthians.

I Corinthians 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
 
I Corinthians 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?


Of course this judgment cannot be about who will, or will not have eternal life. This question has already been answered, since the saved are in heaven with Christ judging the world. This is why the saints are caught up in the air to meet Christ when He returns, and will ever be with Him (1Th 4:14-18). During this thousand years, the saints are in heaven with Christ who has taken them there. Later, the wicked will surround the beloved city, or New Jerusalem, apparently after it descends from heaven down to earth (Rev. 21:1-5), at the end of the thousand years.

The judgment that the saints are involved in is apparently for the purpose of understanding why or why not, certain people are or are not in heaven with the saved. No doubt God will answer all the questions of the saints during these thousand years. Surely there will be questions from the saints regarding who is, and who is not there. In the end though, every knee will bow and confess that Christ is the righteous judge of all (Rom. 14:10&11).

Verse five points out that the rest of the dead, that is those who were not saved, did not live again until the thousand years were finished. Then it says that this is the first resurrection.  That is not to say that the rest of the dead not living again for a thousand years is the first resurrection, for this would make no sense at all. Rather, that those who were involved in judging the world during this thousand years were part of the first resurrection, that is, the resurrection of the saved.

Verse six says that those who are saved and take part in the first resurrection are blessed and holy. It also points out that the second death will have no power over them. For them, death has been swallowed up in victory, in and through their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. They shall be priests of God and reign with Him during this thousand year period.

Verses seven through fifteen point out what will happen to the wicked at the end of this thousand year period. This begins with Satan being let loose again to deceive the nations. In order for this to take place, the lost who have been dead during this thousand year period (verse 5), must be resurrected. Thus having died once already at Christ’s second coming (Luke 17:28-30, 2 Th. 2:8, Rev. 6:14-17), they will die again the second death, when they come up on the beloved city with their leader Satan. That both the saved and the wicked will be resurrected, was pointed out by Christ Himself when here on earth.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The resurrection of life is at the beginning of the thousand years. The resurrection of damnation is at the end of the thousand years.

The wicked surround the beloved city, and fire comes down from God and devours them (verse 9). This is the lake of fire, where the Devil, the Beast, and the False prophet are. It is where all those whose names are not written in the book of life will end up, and die the second death (verses 13-15). The book of life, from which all these people were judged, must be the book that the saints were examining during this thousand year period. This would be the judgment that they were involved in (verses 11&12).

Now to the definition of the bottomless pit into which Satan was cast. The definition of which, will reveal that the lost are dead during this thousand year period. Let us look at some scriptures to see what a bottomless pit might represent.

Job 17:13 If I wait, the grave is mine house: I have made my bed in the darkness. 14 I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister. 15 And where is now my hope? as for my hope, who shall see it? 16 They shall go down to the bars ofthe pit, when our rest together is in the dust.

Psalm 30:3 O LORD, thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

Proverbs 1:11 If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause: 12 Let us swallow them up alive as the grave; and whole, as those that go down into the pit:

Isaiah 38:17 Behold, for peace I had great bitterness: but thou hast in love to my soul delivered it from the pit of corruption: for thou hast cast all my sins behind thy back. 18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.

Jeremiah 41:7 And it was so, when they came into the midst of the city, that Ishmael the son of Nethaniah slew them, and cast them into the midst of the pit, he, and the men that were with him...........
9 Now the pit wherein Ishmael had cast all the dead bodies[/b] of the men, whom he had slain because of Gedaliah, was it which Asa the king had made for fear of Baasha king of Israel: and Ishmael the son of Nethaniah filled it with them that were slain.


In the bible, a pit is very often associated with the grave, or a place to put the dead. A bottomless pit then, would undoubtedly represent an enormous grave, filled with countless people. If the bible tells us that all the lost will be slain when Christ returns the second time, which it does, then this world would be one massive grave. The dead bodies of countless millions strewn all over it. This is in fact where Satan is bound for this thousand years, while the saved are in heaven going over the book of life, he is here with nothing but the dead.  Thus Satan can no longer deceive the nations during this thousand years, for there are no nations or peoples to deceive. Jeremiah speaks of the world in this condition.

Jer 25:30 Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth. 31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD. 32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth. 33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

Jer 4: 23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. 24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. 25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. 26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.


Isaiah not only spoke of this condition of the earth, but prophesied of the very things we are discussing.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.


Though all the kings and people will be slain, yet Satan will not join them in burial. Though he be in the pit with them, the bottomless pit, yet he will not be given the rest of the sleep of the dead. He will live for a thousand years alone with no one to deceive, and nothing to do but ponder the effects of the works of his own hands. Ever looking forward to the judgment, and his destruction at the end of the thousand years.

Isaiah 24:18 And it shall come to pass, that he who fleeth from the noise of the fear shall fall into the pit; and he that cometh up out of the midst of the pit shall be taken in the snare: for the windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth do shake. 19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. 20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. 21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. 22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited. 23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.


Here again, Isaiah is referring to the destruction of the earth, and the death of the wicked. When the wicked are gathered together in the pit, that is dead, and shut up in death as in prison (Job3:11-18, Isa. 53:8), then they will be visited after many days. That many days is the thousand years that we are discussing, and it will not be well for them when they are visited.

Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. 9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife. 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

I want to be in that city, don’t you?
« Last Edit: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 22:03:15 by Amo »

Offline Star of David

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #10 on: Fri Aug 04, 2017 - 22:34:46 »


This "Millennium" that is so often discussed by End Times prophecy buffs will turn out to be meaningless.  Just like there will never be a Rapture, when Christ returns to earth, He won't reign for just 1,000 years. He'll set the stage for eternity and only God and Jesus knows what that will entail.

Offline RB

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #11 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 07:10:09 »
I want to be in that city, don’t you?
Amo, who would not want that to be so having considered Revelation 21 and other related scriptures? But, sir, your understanding of Revelation 20 is the most blizzard one that I have ever heard. I have read it several times to make sure I'm understanding what you are trying to put forth, and I believe that I do.
Quote from: Amo
A correct understanding of this time period is very important.
It is indeed for our peace, joy, and contentment during the one thousand years spoken of by John, regardless of what period in which we ourselves lived in during this time, especially so during the little season in which Satan is loose.

Your understanding cannot be supported with others scriptures from both OT and NT.  As a matter of truth, they are in direct conflict with many of them. Let me start with this one and work our way through your post.
Quote from: Amo
Verses one through three, are referring of course to the leader of the lost, Satan himself. During this thousand year period, Satan is bound in the bottomless pit. We will discuss just what the bottomless pit is after we finish with the thousand year period. Not only is Satan bound during this thousand years, but he is not able to deceive the nations anymore during this same time.
Quote
Revelation 20:1~"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand".
Revelation Chapter 20 is introduced by the phrase, "And (or Then) I saw an angel come down from heaven..". This is not indicating that John is now having a vision of events that happen after the events in Chapter 19. It is just the introduction of a new vision that John was seeing. This is obviously a different vision from chapter 19, and there is nothing in scripture which would have anyone believe the events in the Chapters of revelation go along chronologically. In fact, the scriptures preclude it!

Angel in Revelation is a messenger who came down from heaven with the key and great Chain to bind Satan is God's anointed Messenger JESUS. He is Messenger of the Covenant of God who comes down from heaven with the power to bind Satan and by His death give that Covenant strength (See Philippians 2:6-8). It's the fulfillment of Prophesy of the messenger of God who redeems from the hand of the strong one, Satan. This Messenger of the Covenant is the deliverer out of Zion that was prophesied to come and defeat Satan and free his captivity, to make strong the New Covenant with Israel (see Jeremiah 31). Christ is the Prophesied foundation of the Temple rebuilding (building again), and the freeing of Israel. But in order to do that, that great deceiver Satan had to first be bound because he held the captivity of the nations or gentiles, with the strong hand of death hanging over them. This Messenger who came down from Heaven with the power to bind Satan and loose the peoples of the world, is Christ.
Quote
Malachi 3:1~"...and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to His TEMPLE, even the Messenger of the Covenant, whom ye delight in: behold He shall come, saith the Lord of hosts."
This is the anointed Christ, the Word made flesh. This Messenger,  is He who came down from heaven to give the Covenant strength. He came with the Key and great Chain to bind Satan in a bottomless pit that he can no longer deceive the gentiles by holding them in bondage. Revelation 20 is the fulfillment of that Prophesy.

Isaiah the Prophet spoke of a time when the Gentiles (nations) would come into the kingdom of God (See Isaiah 9:1; 42:6; 49:2,22) when the Messiah come to free the captivity, and this was fulfilled in Christ's first advent. Therefore, the basis upon which the gospel can now go unto all the nations of the world is that Satan’s deceiving hold upon the Gentiles (same word as translated nations) has now been bound as all power is given to Christ to evangelize the world.
Quote
Matthew 28:18-19~"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Because of this Messenger from heaven Satan cannot thwart the building of the Lord's Temple with the chosen of the nations, because he has been bound from doing so. That power of binding is in the symbolism of the key, the chain, and the Angel from Heaven.

Satan cannot be bound with a literal Chain of iron, or locked in a pit with a literal brass Key. Satan is a spirit being which cannot be bound by literal earthly devices. The words here of keys and chains have spiritual significance. The Lord uses these symbols to illustrate a spiritual (but very literal) picture for us. Once we understand this, half the battle of understanding His Word is won. The Key here symbolizes that the Messenger has the right and authority to bind and loose. This messenger come down from Heaven holds the right and authority and means (key) to bind Satan. The signification being, "He who holds the key, holds the ability and authority to restrain Satan". That would also include ability and authority to loose Satan from that restraint. The Chain symbolizes the power (force or energy required to do the holding) to bind. It is a "Great" Chain because Satan is a spiritual and strong adversary (more on this later), upon whom only a great or special binding from God will restrain. The bottomless pit is symbolism for a boundless void of nothingness. Satan (a spirit being) is held in idleness, that his ability to deceive the Gentiles whom God is now also drawing by the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, is stopped. i.e., He cannot prevent this while God's church is being built.

Symbolism:
Keys = Right, Authority, Ability
Chain = Power, Means to Restrain
Bottomless Pit = Boundless Void


This first verse is opening the vision with a word picture of the time that the Messenger from God came, as prophesied, to restrain Satan, and loose the Gentiles from his deceiving grip. This took place at Christ's first advent. It is a opening image of the promised Messenger of the Covenant coming down from Heaven with the authority, means, and power to bind Satan, and free the nations. This Messenger was prophesied to come to His temple and bring Peace to Israel by freeing the captivity and reconciling them to God. The mystery is revealed that the gentiles or nations were included in this promise.

And when we think about this honestly, what other Messenger comes down from Heaven with the seal (security) of the Living God, and the Keys to Bind and loose Satan, and has the power to take hold of him, and cast him in a void where he cannot deceive the nations for a period? Only the Lord qualifies for such an impossible task! No one else has that kind of Power to overcome or conquer the strong one, Satan. The Only messenger who came down from heaven to bind Satan is Christ! And when we carefully study scripture we see that this was precisely as was prophesied. It was for this reason that The Messenger of the New Covenant was prophesied to come. To ransom the prisoners from the hand of the strong one and set Jacob free. He fulfilled that prophesy. We get a little better understanding about this in the next verse.

Later.....

« Last Edit: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 08:07:31 by RB »

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #12 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 07:55:37 »
That both the saved and the wicked will be resurrected, was pointed out by Christ Himself when here on earth.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The resurrection of life is at the beginning of the thousand years. The resurrection of damnation is at the end of the thousand years.

You noted two resurrections being spoken of in Revelation 20 and you pointed to Jesus' words in John 5:28 concerning the second resurrection.

First, you failed to understand that the resurrection Jesus spoke of in John 5:28 concerns one resurrection.  We know this because He spoke of the hour which is coming.  Both the good and the bad are resurrected at that same hour which is coming.  There are not twp hours coming separated by a thousand years.

Second, it is interesting that you pointed to John 5:28 concerning the "second resurrection".  If you had but backed up a few verses you would realize that in that passage Jesus actually spoke of two resurrections.  The first resurrection Jesus speaks of is

John 5:24  Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 5:25  "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.


I contend that this is the resurrection to life that occurs when we are reborn.  Notice that Jesus says an hour is coming, and is now here.  In that instant of rebirth the one who believes has passed from death to life -- clearly a resurrection.  I would argue that is the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation 20:4.  Those are the very ones of whom it is said said on such the second death hath no power

So then Jesus speaks of two resurrections.  The first resurrection is regeneration, a spiritual resurrection.  The second resurrection is the resurrection of all of the dead at the end of the thousand years.  Now as RB noted above, the "thousand years" is not referring to a specific period of 1000 years.  The number 1000, like nearly all numbers in Revelation, carries figurative reference.  It is used in Revelation 20, as elsewhere, to indicate simply a very large unspecified number.  You can see this by simply doing a word search on the word thousand.  Very often throughout the Scriptures it carries the meaning of simply a very large unspecified number.  It seems apparent it does here in Revelation 20 as well.

The point being that there is only one resurrection of the physically dead.  It is at the one return of Jesus.  The millennium is now.  It began at Jesus' first coming; it will end at Jesus' second coming.

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #13 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 08:05:31 »
The point being that there is only one resurrection of the physically dead.  It is at the one return of Jesus.  The millennium is now.  It began at Jesus' first coming; it will end at Jesus' second coming.
Amen to this brother's post~Amo, that's NOT to say you are not a believer, but for sure a confused one on this subject.
« Last Edit: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 08:16:58 by RB »

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #14 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 08:53:50 »
Quote
Revealtion 20:2~"and He laid hold on the Dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years".
Because of preconceived ideas, this is the verse where many believers become somewhat confused. Many make the assertion that this hasn't occurred as yet. They hypothesize that this will take place sometime during Christ's second coming. Amo, you believe that Satan is bound after the FIRST resurrection which you believe takes place when the saints are called up into heaven and THERE examining the book of life wondering why some are there and some are not there!  You even take this a bit further and teach that the devil will be loose after the thousand years. A couple of questions for you~you never tell us what is happening the wicked during this period of a thousand years who were living WHEN Christ came for the saints.  So, my question to you is WHAT HAPPEN to them? The second question~Why totally bound Satan, only to lose him again to just cast him into the lake of fire which is the second death? In other words, what would be the purpose of blinding, loosing and then destroying based upon your interpretation? 

Ironically, in the midst of all the symbolic language here, many take exception to this thousand years being understood any other way but a literal length of time. That's inconsistency, which is a landmark of error.  Nevertheless, when we practice sound biblical hermeneutics, it becomes clear from the scriptures that Satan was bound by the victory of Christ on the cross. He had to be bound so that Christ could build His Church by releasing those whom Satan held captive. These are those held in bondage which Christ came to set free. Satan is the great deceiver of the world and he held the people in bondage to him so that they were his slaves. This messenger came from heaven to ransom those prisoners, and free that captivity. You can get a much better understanding of this principle by looking "carefully" at Matthew chapter 12, where the Pharisees are claiming that Jesus (the Messenger of the Covenant) is casting out devils by the power of Satan. And Jesus asks them, "how can Satan fight himself? A Kingdom divided against itself cannot stand". Christ says that if He casts out Devils by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has come unto them! Of course, we know He did cast them out by the Spirit of God. Therefore, it is likewise unquestionably true that the Kingdom of God had come unto them. And that is a very telling and unmistakable truth not subject to private interpretation, and which shouldn't be taken lightly, nor trampled upon. The Kingdom of God "Had" Come to Israel in Christ! And Christ doesn't stop there, He goes on to make sure we all know exactly what He is talking about, by then giving us this most revealing parable:
Quote
Matthew 12:29~"How can one enter into a strong man's house and spoil his goods, except he first Bind the strong man and then he will spoil his house."
When we study this parable honestly, by the Grace of God we must assuredly come to the truth of it. The Lord Jesus Christ came to spoil, Satan's house. And those possesions were you, those given to him by his Father. We were those held strongly in captivity in this house of bondage. But in order to take Satan's goods, first, Christ had to "bind him." Look again carefully at the parable itself, and ask yourself honestly these questions:

         #1. Who is the Strong man?
         #2. What is his house?
         #3. Who is it that comes to bind him?
         #4. What are the possessions in the strong man's house
             that he wants to Spoil (take by conquest)?
         #5. What "MUST" be done first, before that can happen?
   
   
When you have answered those questions nobly, it's an absolute! There can be no other rational conclusion but that #1, Satan is the strong man. #2, His house is the adversarial principality. #3, Christ is the one who came to bind him and take the possessions or prisoners in his principality, #4, the Church were those possessions being held captive or in bondage by Satan, and #5, Christ is he who had to First, bind Satan!

If indeed Christ had cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then obviously it was the power of God manifest in Him, and thus unambiguously demonstrated that He was the prophesied Messiah, the Son of David who was to come and establish that Kingdom. The same Son of David of whom the multitude spoke in the first instance. It was indeed for this reason the Pharisees had accused Christ of having a devil. Consider wisely and in context.
Quote
Matthew 12:22-24~"Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the Son of David?But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils."
But indeed Christ had cast out devils by the Spirit of God and that meant that the Messiah, the Son of David had been manifest, and His Kingdom had come unto them. It is in this "context" that Christ speaks about how He must first bind Satan. When Christ cast Satan out of individuals, He was 'signifying' by this that the Kingdom of God had come (See Matthew 12:28). For the kingdom of God was AMONG them and they knew it not.  (See Luke 17:21).

The Spoiling of Satan's Kingdom or principality is the principle of this parable. His goods, (The Spoil) are all of those given to him of his Father, all of us who were by nature (in captivity to Satan) and deceived of Satan, who are now set free in Christ. This parable is a clear picture that God gives us to illustrate Christ is the Messenger of the Covenant that came down from heaven to establish the Kingdom of God by spoiling the house of Satan and setting free those who sat in the darkness thereof. And God tells us, first Christ had to bind the strong man, and only then could He spoil his house. This is not incidental or insignificant language. Scripture must be defined by scripture, not by so-called churches of God. When we do that, it is clear the binding of Satan took place at the cross.

Later......






Offline Amo

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #15 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 10:15:17 »
Amo, who would not want that to be so having considered Revelation 21 and other related scriptures? But, sir, your understanding of Revelation 20 is the most blizzard one that I have ever heard. I have read it several times to make sure I'm understanding what you are trying to put forth, and I believe that I do.It is indeed for our peace, joy, and contentment during the one thousand years spoken of by John, regardless of what period in which we ourselves lived in during this time, especially so during the little season in which Satan is loose.

Your understanding cannot be supported with others scriptures from both OT and NT.  As a matter of truth, they are in direct conflict with many of them. Let me start with this one and work our way through your post. Revelation Chapter 20 is introduced by the phrase, "And (or Then) I saw an angel come down from heaven..". This is not indicating that John is now having a vision of events that happen after the events in Chapter 19. It is just the introduction of a new vision that John was seeing. This is obviously a different vision from chapter 19, and there is nothing in scripture which would have anyone believe the events in the Chapters of revelation go along chronologically. In fact, the scriptures preclude it!

Angel in Revelation is a messenger who came down from heaven with the key and great Chain to bind Satan is God's anointed Messenger JESUS. He is Messenger of the Covenant of God who comes down from heaven with the power to bind Satan and by His death give that Covenant strength (See Philippians 2:6-8). It's the fulfillment of Prophesy of the messenger of God who redeems from the hand of the strong one, Satan. This Messenger of the Covenant is the deliverer out of Zion that was prophesied to come and defeat Satan and free his captivity, to make strong the New Covenant with Israel (see Jeremiah 31). Christ is the Prophesied foundation of the Temple rebuilding (building again), and the freeing of Israel. But in order to do that, that great deceiver Satan had to first be bound because he held the captivity of the nations or gentiles, with the strong hand of death hanging over them. This Messenger who came down from Heaven with the power to bind Satan and loose the peoples of the world, is Christ.This is the anointed Christ, the Word made flesh. This Messenger,  is He who came down from heaven to give the Covenant strength. He came with the Key and great Chain to bind Satan in a bottomless pit that he can no longer deceive the gentiles by holding them in bondage. Revelation 20 is the fulfillment of that Prophesy.

Isaiah the Prophet spoke of a time when the Gentiles (nations) would come into the kingdom of God (See Isaiah 9:1; 42:6; 49:2,22) when the Messiah come to free the captivity, and this was fulfilled in Christ's first advent. Therefore, the basis upon which the gospel can now go unto all the nations of the world is that Satan’s deceiving hold upon the Gentiles (same word as translated nations) has now been bound as all power is given to Christ to evangelize the world.Because of this Messenger from heaven Satan cannot thwart the building of the Lord's Temple with the chosen of the nations, because he has been bound from doing so. That power of binding is in the symbolism of the key, the chain, and the Angel from Heaven.

Satan cannot be bound with a literal Chain of iron, or locked in a pit with a literal brass Key. Satan is a spirit being which cannot be bound by literal earthly devices. The words here of keys and chains have spiritual significance. The Lord uses these symbols to illustrate a spiritual (but very literal) picture for us. Once we understand this, half the battle of understanding His Word is won. The Key here symbolizes that the Messenger has the right and authority to bind and loose. This messenger come down from Heaven holds the right and authority and means (key) to bind Satan. The signification being, "He who holds the key, holds the ability and authority to restrain Satan". That would also include ability and authority to loose Satan from that restraint. The Chain symbolizes the power (force or energy required to do the holding) to bind. It is a "Great" Chain because Satan is a spiritual and strong adversary (more on this later), upon whom only a great or special binding from God will restrain. The bottomless pit is symbolism for a boundless void of nothingness. Satan (a spirit being) is held in idleness, that his ability to deceive the Gentiles whom God is now also drawing by the pouring out of the Holy Spirit, is stopped. i.e., He cannot prevent this while God's church is being built.

Symbolism:
Keys = Right, Authority, Ability
Chain = Power, Means to Restrain
Bottomless Pit = Boundless Void


This first verse is opening the vision with a word picture of the time that the Messenger from God came, as prophesied, to restrain Satan, and loose the Gentiles from his deceiving grip. This took place at Christ's first advent. It is a opening image of the promised Messenger of the Covenant coming down from Heaven with the authority, means, and power to bind Satan, and free the nations. This Messenger was prophesied to come to His temple and bring Peace to Israel by freeing the captivity and reconciling them to God. The mystery is revealed that the gentiles or nations were included in this promise.

And when we think about this honestly, what other Messenger comes down from Heaven with the seal (security) of the Living God, and the Keys to Bind and loose Satan, and has the power to take hold of him, and cast him in a void where he cannot deceive the nations for a period? Only the Lord qualifies for such an impossible task! No one else has that kind of Power to overcome or conquer the strong one, Satan. The Only messenger who came down from heaven to bind Satan is Christ! And when we carefully study scripture we see that this was precisely as was prophesied. It was for this reason that The Messenger of the New Covenant was prophesied to come. To ransom the prisoners from the hand of the strong one and set Jacob free. He fulfilled that prophesy. We get a little better understanding about this in the next verse.

Later.....

Before addressing the main point of your contention, I want to make sure we are clear concerning something we have debated quite a bit in the past, which it seems from your above post that you have changed your mind about. Do the scriptures sometimes refer to Christ as an angel, as in Michael the archangel, simply archangel, or Angel of the Lord? We have debated this in the past quite a bit, and you have seemed to be dead set against such an idea. Now however, it seems to suit your fancy, that you allow for the angel of the scriptures under examination to be none other than Jesus Christ Himself. Correct me if I am wrong. Where do you stand on this issue? Are Michael the archangel, the archangel, and the Angel of the Lord definitely not Christ, but the angel of Rev 20 definitely is because this supports your own understanding on this particular subject? Please do expound.

As far as my explanation being Blizzard to you, what ever that means, it is simply based upon what Rev. 20 itself says. What I explained can be and is backed up from other scriptures in the OT and NT, which scriptures have been provided. Simply stating that what I said cannot be backed up by the same, does not make it so. The scriptures are there for all to see. If you think they are not in relation to the topic at hand, then explain why. Just saying they are not , does not make it so.

Rev 20 is not just a continuation from chapter 19, it is the continuing revelation of prophetic truth through repetition and enlargement. Covering some of the same time frame, if not all of it, and adding more details concerning the same.

The idea that Satan has been bound from deceiving the nations since Christ's first advent is not biblical at all. To the contrary, Christ's church was warned of the dangers f his deceptions by both Christ Himself and the apostles. What sense would that make if Satan has been bound and unable to deceive since that time? Nor has Satan ever had liberty to deceive any soul honestly seeking the truth of God and His salvation.

1 Pe 5:6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

How is one supposedly bound to the bottomless pit and unable to deceive anymore, walking about as a roaring lion seeking to devour all of the church that he might? I guess Peter didn't understand what you do, did he?

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Neither did Paul did he? Here he is warning the church of the wiles of the devil. Not only is Satan still able to deceive the nations, but the church itself must be always on guard against the same. How say you the devil is already bound and we are now in the thousand year period under examination?

1 Tim 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;

2 Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Jam 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. 7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.


Sorry RB, your scenario just does not line up with the scriptures.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. 13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. 15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. 16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The above from Rev 12, make it abundantly clear that it has been since the salvation of humanity through Christ, that the devil has increased his war upon the world and Christ's church in particular. It was Michael the archangel, who is Christ, that defeated Satan on the cross. Since that time Satan has been restricted to this world, where he ever seeks to persecute the church of Christ, and deceive the whole world, even the very elect if such were possible. I am not the one confusing scripture. I ask again, are you saying Michael the archangel who defeated Satan was not Christ, but the angle with the keys to the bottomless pit was?

Satan is not presently bound, nor has he been since Christ's first advent. He is actively pursuing the deception of the entire world into rejecting Jesus Christ and being unprepared for Christ's second coming and the end of this world. The fact that the gospel has been opened up, more clearly revealed, and more specifically offered to the gentiles has not bound Satan from being able to deceive. To the contrary, he knows his time is short and has increased his efforts to deceive. His deceptions are only bound by those who choose God's word over the same, and continue to do so as the devils efforts centime to increase as his end approaches. This is what scripture and biblical prophecy clearly teach and warn humanity about.

You are correct in stating that only Christ can and has defeated Satan and has, can, and will bind him. The truth of the gospel sets all who accept it free from the deceptions of the devil. When Christ returns to end this world at the beginning of the thousand years, he will live no one on it to be deceived. He alone can and will accomplish this as predicted in His word. He has not ever promised that in this world Satan would be bound from deceiving, this teaching is itself deception.

Mark 4:13 And he said unto them, Know ye not this parable? and how then will ye know all parables? 14 The sower soweth the word. 15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. 16 And these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness; 17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended. 18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word, 19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful. 20 And these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred. 21 And he said unto them, Is a candle brought to be put under a bushel, or under a bed? and not to be set on a candlestick?

It is Satan that persecutes and continually seeks to deceive those to whom the gospel is given. He is not yet bound, but continually seeks to deceive as many as possible. He will only be bound when all have made their choice, and God Himself decides it is time to end it all. Then Christ will return and end Satan's ability to deceive anymore, by leaving him no one to deceive. Scripture is filled with warnings about decption for the church and the world, how say you Satan is no bound from deceiving?



Offline Amo

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #16 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 10:59:39 »
You noted two resurrections being spoken of in Revelation 20 and you pointed to Jesus' words in John 5:28 concerning the second resurrection.

First, you failed to understand that the resurrection Jesus spoke of in John 5:28 concerns one resurrection.  We know this because He spoke of the hour which is coming.  Both the good and the bad are resurrected at that same hour which is coming.  There are not twp hours coming separated by a thousand years.

Second, it is interesting that you pointed to John 5:28 concerning the "second resurrection".  If you had but backed up a few verses you would realize that in that passage Jesus actually spoke of two resurrections.  The first resurrection Jesus speaks of is

John 5:24  Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 5:25  "Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.


I contend that this is the resurrection to life that occurs when we are reborn.  Notice that Jesus says an hour is coming, and is now here.  In that instant of rebirth the one who believes has passed from death to life -- clearly a resurrection.  I would argue that is the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation 20:4.  Those are the very ones of whom it is said said on such the second death hath no power

So then Jesus speaks of two resurrections.  The first resurrection is regeneration, a spiritual resurrection.  The second resurrection is the resurrection of all of the dead at the end of the thousand years.  Now as RB noted above, the "thousand years" is not referring to a specific period of 1000 years.  The number 1000, like nearly all numbers in Revelation, carries figurative reference.  It is used in Revelation 20, as elsewhere, to indicate simply a very large unspecified number.  You can see this by simply doing a word search on the word thousand.  Very often throughout the Scriptures it carries the meaning of simply a very large unspecified number.  It seems apparent it does here in Revelation 20 as well.

The point being that there is only one resurrection of the physically dead.  It is at the one return of Jesus.  The millennium is now.  It began at Jesus' first coming; it will end at Jesus' second coming.

Jn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The verse does not say they are all resurrected at the same time. To the contrary, it clearly states that there is a resurrection unto life, and a resurrection unto damnation. It does not address the timing as to happening at the same time or not. Examination of other scriptures such as those already examined in Rev 20, and others suggest that they are not. Nor is the first resurrection simply a spiritual one. This is not what Paul taught.

1 For 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable. 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Those who are Christ's are raised at His coming. This is the first resurrection. Paul doesn't say all are raised at Christ's coming, but only that those who are Christ's are raised at His second coming. The wicked have no part in the first resurrection.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Who do you think the rest of the dead are in the above scriptures that live not until the thousand years end. They are those who did not take part in the first resurrection, because they were not in Christ. They are subject to the second death, as apposed to those of the first resurrection upon whom the second death has no power. The above necessitates two separate resurrections. The saved are in heaven living and reigning with Christ, and the rest of the dead live not again until the end of the thousand year. This is the resurrection of damnation, since all who partake of it  are cast into the lake of fire to die the second death.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

After the wicked are judged according to their works, with no atoning blood of Jesus for the forgiveness of their sins, they must pay for the consequences of sin on their own in the lake of fire. They had no part in the first resurrection because they were not in Christ, thus after the second resurrection unto damnation they are cast into the lake of fire which has power over them. I understand why it is expedient for some that the first resurrection is only a spiritual one at conversion, but this will never make it so. To insist such, ends with the denial of certain scriptures testifying to the contrary.

I understand that it is expedient to the understanding of some as well, that the thousand years actually represents a indefinite period of time. Again though, this does not make it so. Perhaps it would help to examine the scriptures you spoke of regarding a thousand years, which you state actually refer to an indefinite period of time.
« Last Edit: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 11:02:56 by Amo »

Offline Amo

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #17 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 11:26:09 »
Quote
Because of preconceived ideas, this is the verse where many believers become somewhat confused. Many make the assertion that this hasn't occurred as yet. They hypothesize that this will take place sometime during Christ's second coming. Amo, you believe that Satan is bound after the FIRST resurrection which you believe takes place when the saints are called up into heaven and THERE examining the book of life wondering why some are there and some are not there!  You even take this a bit further and teach that the devil will be loose after the thousand years. A couple of questions for you~you never tell us what is happening the wicked during this period of a thousand years who were living WHEN Christ came for the saints.  So, my question to you is WHAT HAPPEN to them? The second question~Why totally bound Satan, only to lose him again to just cast him into the lake of fire which is the second death? In other words, what would be the purpose of blinding, loosing and then destroying based upon your interpretation? 

The scriptures answer your above questions. They tell us that the world is destroyed at Christ's second coming. All but the saved die at Christ's second coming.

Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

2 Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Rev 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.


There are only two harvests when the Lord returns. Both are reaped. One harvest will be part of the first resurrection upon whom the second death has no power, they will be taken t heaven with Christ as He promised the saved. The other harvest will be left among all the rest of the dead on this planet awaiting final judgement and execution in the lake of fire at the end of the thousand years as Rev 20 testifies. They will take part in the second resurrection unto damnation at the end of the thousand years.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The rest of the dead mentioned above, are the lost who were destroyed with this earth at Christ's second coming. They are with all the unsaved dead on the destroyed earth, which is the bottomless pit, or mass grave of all lost humanity, to which Satan is bound during this thousand years. None of which he can deceive anymore, for they are all dead. Kapish?

Offline RB

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #18 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 13:39:43 »
Do the scriptures sometimes refer to Christ as an angel, as in Michael the archangel, simply archangel, or Angel of the Lord? We have debated this in the past quite a bit, and you have seemed to be dead set against such an idea. Now however, it seems to suit your fancy, that you allow for the angel of the scriptures under examination to be none other than Jesus Christ Himself. Correct me if I am wrong. Where do you stand on this issue? Are Michael the archangel, the archangel, and the Angel of the Lord definitely not Christ, but the angel of Rev 20 definitely is because this supports your own understanding on this particular subject? Please do expound.
Amo, I DO understand your concerns, and my answer is this: Michael the archangel is NOT Christ; the Angel of the LORD in the OT is NOT Christ, but in Revelation 20 in this context, it is Christ as the Messenger of the New Covenant as we proved by scriptures above. The context drives our interpretation for us. No angels in heaven are able to blind Satan without God's assistance and in the sense in which we understand this blinding. Such scriptures as Matthew 12 and others we shall consider drives our interpretation, not as you suggest our fancy, nevertheless a very fair question from you.   I shall read the rest of your posts and then comment more.

Offline notreligus

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #19 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 14:33:25 »
I feel as though I've been tossed out of my own thread and need to start another one, or a series of threads.

I agree with Star of David's brief summary.   It pretty wells says it all with a few statements.   

The thread in the Theology Forum concerning National vs. Spiritual Israel is what influenced my starting this thread.    The reason that there are volumes of books written about six verses in the twentieth Chapter of Revelation is the belief that God is going to again deal with the Jews and there will be a 1,000 year Messianic kingdom established, the purpose of which is for Jesus to reign over Israel from Jerusalem.    It comes down to whether or not one believes that the majority of OT prophecies concerning the Messiah and the kingdom have been fulfilled in Christ.   The Apostle Paul says that is so.   There are those who don't think that Paul's teachings should even be in the canon of Scripture.   

There are many sub topics to all of this.  One is that there are denominations who claim to be Israel (they don't accept Christ as true Israel) and thus they are certain that there will be a Messianic kingdom as they believe they will have a part in this. 

The Book of Revelation does not refer to the church per se' after Chapter Three, and thus that is taken to mean that the Church will be raptured from the Earth and the rest of Revelation deals only with Israel.   The Tribulation Period is related to the time of testing and judgment of Israel and Christ's return is consummated by His binding Satan for 1,000 years and starting His reign over His Kingdom.   Dispensationals are divided into the Partial and Full varieties.   The Partial Dispensationals believe the raptured church will return with Christ at that time;  the Full Dispenationals believe that the Church will remain in Heaven and that the Messianic Kingdom applies only to the Jews/Israel.

Those who don't believe any of this don't seem to want any of this discussed since they don't believe it.  I don't know how to have a proper discussion without mentioning opposing views.  Otherwise it's a one-sided lecture.  I had hoped to compare the end-times Dispensational views and show all of the contradictions in them and by doing so cause folk to give these views another look and hopefully realize they have not even been aware of those beliefs which influenced these views in the first place.  I don't think most Christians are aware that there are very distinctive varieties of Dispensational teachings.   

Offline Amo

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #20 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 14:54:53 »
Amo, I DO understand your concerns, and my answer is this: Michael the archangel is NOT Christ; the Angel of the LORD in the OT is NOT Christ, but in Revelation 20 in this context, it is Christ as the Messenger of the New Covenant as we proved by scriptures above. The context drives our interpretation for us. No angels in heaven are able to blind Satan without God's assistance and in the sense in which we understand this blinding. Such scriptures as Matthew 12 and others we shall consider drives our interpretation, not as you suggest our fancy, nevertheless a very fair question from you.   I shall read the rest of your posts and then comment more.

You have proved nothing, but only supported what you believe as far as possible. The angel of Rev 20, does not have to be Christ. No angel of heaven does anything without God's assistance. To the contrary, they are God's servants, and do His bidding. Any angel of heaven with God's command, can bind Satan at any time. He is a defeated foe.

The context of Rev 20 is not the first advent of Christ, but rather the examining of the books in heaven, and the judgment of this world. Which the saints in heaven participate in having already been resurrected during the thousand years as the scriptures in question say themselves. During which same thousand years the rest of the dead, which would be the wicked dead, are judged by the saints to see exactly why they were not saved and are subject to the second death. Which death they will die when they are resurrected unto the resurrection of damnation. These things are not about Christ's first advent, they are about the choices all of humanity have made concerning the gospel of the kingdom preached at that advent and ever since. The final sentences of judgment concerning those choices, and the execution of the same. The finalization of which precedes the creation of the new heaven and new earth of biblical prophecy and especially Rev 21&22.

Offline Amo

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #21 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 15:17:18 »
I feel as though I've been tossed out of my own thread and need to start another one, or a series of threads.

I agree with Star of David's brief summary.   It pretty wells says it all with a few statements.   

The thread in the Theology Forum concerning National vs. Spiritual Israel is what influenced my starting this thread.    The reason that there are volumes of books written about six verses in the twentieth Chapter of Revelation is the belief that God is going to again deal with the Jews and there will be a 1,000 year Messianic kingdom established, the purpose of which is for Jesus to reign over Israel from Jerusalem.    It comes down to whether or not one believes that the majority of OT prophecies concerning the Messiah and the kingdom have been fulfilled in Christ.   The Apostle Paul says that is so.   There are those who don't think that Paul's teachings should even be in the canon of Scripture.   

There are many sub topics to all of this.  One is that there are denominations who claim to be Israel (they don't accept Christ as true Israel) and thus they are certain that there will be a Messianic kingdom as they believe they will have a part in this. 

The Book of Revelation does not refer to the church per se' after Chapter Three, and thus that is taken to mean that the Church will be raptured from the Earth and the rest of Revelation deals only with Israel.   The Tribulation Period is related to the time of testing and judgment of Israel and Christ's return is consummated by His binding Satan for 1,000 years and starting His reign over His Kingdom.   Dispensationals are divided into the Partial and Full varieties.   The Partial Dispensationals believe the raptured church will return with Christ at that time;  the Full Dispenationals believe that the Church will remain in Heaven and that the Messianic Kingdom applies only to the Jews/Israel.

Those who don't believe any of this don't seem to want any of this discussed since they don't believe it.  I don't know how to have a proper discussion without mentioning opposing views.  Otherwise it's a one-sided lecture.  I had hoped to compare the end-times Dispensational views and show all of the contradictions in them and by doing so cause folk to give these views another look and hopefully realize they have not even been aware of those beliefs which influenced these views in the first place.  I don't think most Christians are aware that there are very distinctive varieties of Dispensational teachings.

All the above stems from the same problem, those who wrongly maintain the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile which Christ came to break down at His first advent. The only Israel of God during the new covenant era, are those in Christ. All others, including literal Jews outside of Christ are no longer the Israel of God. Abraham is not their father, for they are not of the faith of Abraham. All who accept Christ as their Messiah, are of the faith of Abraham, and therefore the Israel of God by that faith. Biblical prophecy is about God's chosen in Christ Jesus who are the Israel of God and their enemies, not those Jews who simply wish to reestablish the literal nation of Israel. They are not and cannot ever be the Israel of God again, while they remain outside of Christ. There will be no second gospel of Jesus Christ for them. The gospel is here now, if they wish to be part of the Israel of God again, then they need to accept Jesus Christ the Messiah of the Jews and the world.

Offline RB

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #22 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 05:01:37 »
This "Millennium" that is so often discussed by End Times prophecy buffs will turn out to be meaningless.  Just like there will never be a Rapture, when Christ returns to earth, He won't reign for just 1,000 years. He'll set the stage for eternity and only God and Jesus knows what that will entail.
There WILL be a rapture, just not in the sense in which many believe. Rapture means 'caught UP"~so in this sense of the word, without question there will be a rapture of God's saints in the SIGHT OF the wicked!
Quote
Revelation 11:12~"And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them."
This is the SAME as 1st Thess. 4:13-18. The two witnesses are Jews and Gentiles that make up the church of the Living God.
Quote from:  notreligus
I feel as though I've been tossed out of my own thread and need to start another one, or a series of threads.
It is impossible to discuss~"What does the Millennium mean to you?" without considering Revelation twenty. But, you are more than welcome to take the lead, and show us exactly what you desire...no problem.
« Last Edit: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 05:05:14 by RB »

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #23 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 06:25:43 »
The two witnesses are Jews and Gentiles that make up the church of the Living God.

Oh, so the Two Witnesses are the Jews and the Gentiles, so you say, RB?

Well, as we all know, according to Revelation 11:3, The Two Witnesses are commissioned to prophesy for 1,260 days. So, RB, what will (or, how will) the Jews and the Gentiles prophesy for 1,260 days?

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #24 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 06:32:49 »
The finalization of which precedes the creation of the new heaven and new earth of biblical prophecy and especially Rev 21&22.
One thought, and then I will step back and give notreligus his rightful place in guiding this thread in the direction he so desires.

You contradicted yourself. You plainly said above these words:
Quote from: Amo
During this thousand years, the saints are in heaven with Christ who has taken them there. Later, the wicked will surround the beloved city, or New Jerusalem, apparently after it descends from heaven down to earth (Rev. 21:1-5), at the end of the thousand years.
Sir, this surrounding the holy city takes place BEFORE the second coming of Jesus Christ for his TRUE CITY the Jerusalem which is from above according to the election of grace. Luke spoke of this with these words:
Quote
Luke 21:20-36~"And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
These words fit perfectly with Revelation 20 and the little season spoken of by John. I would love to give a few thoughts on these scriptures to prove it, with notreligus permission, since he did indeed start this thread, and I have no desire to offend my brother by not staying on the course he desires. 
« Last Edit: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 07:35:35 by RB »

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #25 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 07:00:58 »
Jn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

The verse does not say they are all resurrected at the same time. To the contrary, it clearly states that there is a resurrection unto life, and a resurrection unto damnation. It does not address the timing as to happening at the same time or not. Examination of other scriptures such as those already examined in Rev 20, and others suggest that they are not.

I believe the phrase "the hour is coming" (KJV) or "an hour is coming" (NASB, ASV) or "a time is coming" (NIV) all do indeed suggest that a single time for both events is indicated.

Quote
Nor is the first resurrection simply a spiritual one. This is not what Paul taught.

You quoted 1 Corinthians 15:12.  You have assumed the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation 20 is the resurrection that Paul spoke of.  Not a good assumption. 

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #26 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 07:17:45 »
I believe the phrase "the hour is coming" (KJV) or "an hour is coming" (NASB, ASV) or "a time is coming" (NIV) all do indeed suggest that a single time for both events is indicated.

You quoted 1 Corinthians 15:12.  You have assumed the first resurrection spoken of in Revelation 20 is the resurrection that Paul spoke of.  Not a good assumption.
The resurrection of believers takes place at the LAST TRUMP~last means just that LAST...... it's the seventh and final trumpet of Revelation.
Quote from: Paul's doctrine concerning when SAINTS shall be resurrected
1st Corinthians 15:51,52~"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE shall be changed."
 

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #27 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 23:49:53 »
notreligus  -  You asked "What does the Millennium mean to you?"  If you are hoping for another view defining a yet future millennium, I can't oblige.  The millennium, in a nutshell, was a literal thousand-year period of a physical temple worship system in Jerusalem.  It provided a physical type for the later antitype spiritual temple made of "living stones" - a temple that went vibrantly mobile with the power of the Holy Spirit's gifts, once Christ had ascended to the Father.

Aside from the fact that we really aren't at liberty to concoct a Millennium that suits our own fancy, there are those 2 very definite, very simple characteristics we are given in Rev. 20 that pin down the timing of it.  These dictate exactly WHEN THE MILLENNIUM ENDED, and all other speculation MUST align with those 2 rigid time-markers.

#1)  Satan was loosed for a "little season" AFTER the Millennium expired (Rev. 20:7).
#2)  The First Resurrection event occurred AFTER the Millennium was finished (Rev. 20:5).

For the sake of clarity, we should lay aside all the other more debatable descriptions of the Millennium in Rev. 20 and concentrate on these 2 very basic requirements for the Millennium's end.

Even if point #1 (the time for Satan being loosed) also becomes a subject for debate, surely it should be very, very simple to understand what time in history that point #2 (the First Resurrection) was talking about.  We are told over and over that Christ is the "FIRSTFRUIT", the "FIRSTBEGOTTEN FROM AMONG THE DEAD", the "FIRSTBORN", the "FIRSTFRUIT OF THEM THAT SLEEP".  God put special emphasis on this concept of Christ becoming the FIRST resurrected out of the grave that appeared before His Father in heaven, "that in all things He might have the preeminence" (Colossians 1:18).  Jesus' resurrection was ranked FIRST in order of time,  FIRST in birth order, and is the central focus of the Millennium discussion.  This determines how we interpret all the rest of the Millennium's debatable points.

This wasn't meant to be difficult.  The ordinary man and woman of John's 1st-century audience with little formal education knew that the First Resurrection of Rev. 20 was talking about the event that saw their Savior rise out of the grave, accompanied by that small "remnant" of saints (Rev. 20:5) raised out of the grave along with Him (Matthew 27:52-53).  That small "remnant" was also given a share along with Christ in being called the "FIRSTFRUITS" (Rev. 14:4) - all 144,000 of them raised out of Jewish graves around Jerusalem. 

It's very, very simple. The Millennium was FINISHED after the First Resurrection, when Christ arose and ascended to the Father.  That AD 33 date was also when Satan was kicked out of heaven with his angels - cast down to the earth, just as Jesus had predicted 5 days before the Passover John 12:31; "NOW is the judgment of this world: NOW shall the prince of this world be cast out" (of heaven).  This casting down to earth gave Satan and his angels that "short time" and "little season" to again deceive the nations.

I would agree with Amo's reply #15 above, that Satan was NOT bound at the cross.  His reply gave a number of scriptural proofs that Satan was actually loosed at the cross to practice his deception again, and I will add a couple more to them:

#1)  John 14:30 (KJV) - (on the night of the Last Supper) "...the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me." (Satan was not then loosed, but would soon be coming down to operate deceptively without restriction on earth, after he was cast out of heaven.)

#2)  John 17:15 (ESV) - (same night of the Last Supper) "I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one." (protection asked for his disciples who would be receiving attacks from an active, unbound Satan and his angels)

#3)  Luke 22:53 (KJV)  - (Christ in the Garden of Gethsemane) "When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me," (Satan had been bound then) "but this is your hour, and the power of darkness." (Three days and nights from that time, Satan would be released to deceive again.)

#4)  I Peter 5:8 (KJV)  -  (Peter's warning to the 1st-century flock of believers) "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about," (he wasn't bound at the time Peter was writing) "seeking whom he may devour."

#5)  Ephesians 6:11 (KJV)  -  (advice to the 1st-century believers in how to defend against a fully-active Satanic or demonic attack)  "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers" (Satan ruling - not bound) "of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places...Above all taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked." (Satan was in full attack mode here - not bound at that time.)

#6)  II Timothy 3:13-14 (KJV)  -  (Paul cautions Timothy about a growing amount of deception among evil men soon to arise, and that he should continue to stay grounded in the scripture and Paul's teaching.)  "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived."  (Satan's handiwork as a deceiver was at an increasing level.)  "But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned, knowing of whom thou hast learned them."

#7)  Matthew 12:45 (KJV)  -  (Christ forewarns that "evil and adulterous generation" he was speaking to about a 7-fold resurgence in possession by unclean spirits for them.  This would occur after He and the disciples had first cast out many of them during His ministry.)  "Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man," (the last days when Satan was loosed for his "little season") "is worse than the first" (those first days when Christ and the disciples were busy "binding" Satan and "spoiling his goods" during His ministry.)  "Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."  (That very generation would see the fulfillment of this increased demonic possession period.)

#8)  II Timothy 2:25 (KJV)  -  (Paul gives instructions to Timothy on how to instruct those in error, and lead them to repentance.)  "And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." (The devil was operating at his own will, without restriction, by ensnaring people with errors.)


I could add other references that indicate increased deception levels were going on during those 1st-century days, but this should suffice to illustrate that Satan had again become fully engaged in his favorite activity of deceiving the nations after Christ had ascended.  It was the "little season" during the 1st century, when Satan was loosed after the Millennium had ended, that all these verses above were describing.

 

« Last Edit: Mon Aug 07, 2017 - 00:08:17 by 3 Resurrections »

Offline RB

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #28 on: Mon Aug 07, 2017 - 04:29:42 »
notreligus- You asked "What does the Millennium mean to you?"  If you are hoping for another view defining a yet future millennium, I can't oblige.  The millennium, in a nutshell, was a literal thousand-year period of a physical temple worship system in Jerusalem.  It provided a physical type for the later antitype spiritual temple made of "living stones" - a temple that went vibrantly mobile with the power of the Holy Spirit's gifts, once Christ had ascended to the Father.

Aside from the fact that we really aren't at liberty to concoct a Millennium that suits our own fancy, there are those 2 very definite, very simple characteristics we are given in Rev. 20 that pin down the timing of it.  These dictate exactly WHEN THE MILLENNIUM ENDED, and all other speculation MUST align with those 2 rigid time-markers.

#1)  Satan was loosed for a "little season" AFTER the Millennium expired (Rev. 20:7).
#2)  The First Resurrection event occurred AFTER the Millennium was finished (Rev. 20:5).
You did a good job of doing just what you said we should not do, that I highlighted in red. I'll wait to see what direction notreligus decides to go, and then I will address your Preterist eschatology. Both of your points can easily be proven to be false when the overall NT is considered.
Quote from: John's description of the FIRST RESURRECTION
Revelation 20:4-~"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
What John is describing IS what the first resurrection consist of, it DOES NOT come after the millennium but is in effect the Millennium describing those who have part of it BECAUSE they were part of the FIRST resurrection spoken of in the scriptures.   
« Last Edit: Mon Aug 07, 2017 - 04:38:56 by RB »

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #29 on: Mon Aug 07, 2017 - 06:07:13 »
RB  -  I am doing nothing more and nothing less than standing on God's own definition of the first Resurrection. 

That event belonged to Christ, the Preeminent One, the FIRSTborn, FIRSTfruit, FIRST-begotten One From Among the Dead.  That "REMNANT of the dead" that lived again after the first Resurrection were the comparatively small number of Matthew 27:52-53 saints (all of them "blessed and holy" - none unrighteous ones among them) who were raised as Firstfruits along with Christ.  They shared the same title, because they shared the same event.

I cannot ignore the significance of this event, and it did not go unnoticed by the early church, because this Firstfruits group of raised saints was "seen of many".  This "REMNANT" of 144,000 Firstfruits is the same "REMNANT of the woman's seed" that a wrathful Satan went to make war with in Revelation 12:17.  The very day Stephen was stoned to death, a persecution started waging against the infant church.  Satan had wasted no time.  He knew he had but a "short time" (Revelation 12:12) during those days after Christ's ascension to the Father to do whatever damaging deception he could.  He did his utmost, but his days were numbered, and he knew it.  God was about to make him and every unclean spirit "pass out of the land" of Israel (Zechariah 13:2).

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #30 on: Mon Aug 07, 2017 - 07:02:20 »
KJV:    Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

ESV:    Rev 20:4  Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

NIV:    Rev 20:4  I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Ignore the NIV.  It is a total mistranslation.

Most translations are similar to either the KJV or the ESV.  Looking at those, the common interpretation is that John saw the souls of those who had been beheaded...... and the souls of those who had not worshiped the beast, indicating that both groups were souls of some dead.  That is incorrect.

The second group John saw were not the souls of those who had not worshiped the beast but simply those who had not worshiped the beast, indicating that they were not all necessarily dead.  Some, perhaps many, in the second group were yet alive.  So clearly the first resurrection spoken of there must have included some who were still alive.  The only resurrection that could include those is the resurrection, i.e., those who had "passed out of death into life" that Jesus spoke of in John 5:24 and that Paul spoke of in Ephesians 2:4-5.

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #31 on: Mon Aug 07, 2017 - 12:23:55 »
4WD  -  Good point. 

You are right that scripture has at least a couple categories under discussion there in Revelation 20:4 - maybe even three categories; (#1, SOULS beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, as in John the Baptist's case and time period, #2, SOULS beheaded for the word of God , like the martyred OT prophets, and then #3, those who didn't do homage to the Beast, etc. - who have no mention of being martyred, as you have noticed.)

As for that last group - "those who did not do homage to the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead, and upon their hand" - John writes nothing at all about them being beheaded, such as the other group/groups had been.  They may very well have been a group of persons that were alive.

But don't you see that this lines up perfectly with what I'm saying?  They were alive, because they had been MADE ALIVE by the resurrection of their physical bodies.  Those Matthew 27:52-53 saints raised to life again by Christ in AD 33 were still around as John was writing Revelation.

The description of having no mark of the beast in their forehead matches exactly with the resurrected Matthew 27 saints; these Firstfruits saints already had the name of the Father written on their foreheads (Revelation 14:4), just like the high priest used to have "Holiness to the Lord" engraved on the golden crown on his forehead.  That's probably why these "blessed and holy" ones who took part in the First Resurrection were symbolically called "priests of God" in Revelation 20:6.

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #32 on: Mon Aug 07, 2017 - 16:30:09 »
4WD  -  Good point. 

You are right that scripture has at least a couple categories under discussion there in Revelation 20:4 - maybe even three categories; (#1, SOULS beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, as in John the Baptist's case and time period, #2, SOULS beheaded for the word of God , like the martyred OT prophets, and then #3, those who didn't do homage to the Beast, etc. - who have no mention of being martyred, as you have noticed.)

As for that last group - "those who did not do homage to the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead, and upon their hand" - John writes nothing at all about them being beheaded, such as the other group/groups had been.  They may very well have been a group of persons that were alive.

But don't you see that this lines up perfectly with what I'm saying?  They were alive, because they had been MADE ALIVE by the resurrection of their physical bodies.  Those Matthew 27:52-53 saints raised to life again by Christ in AD 33 were still around as John was writing Revelation.

The description of having no mark of the beast in their forehead matches exactly with the resurrected Matthew 27 saints; these Firstfruits saints already had the name of the Father written on their foreheads (Revelation 14:4), just like the high priest used to have "Holiness to the Lord" engraved on the golden crown on his forehead.  That's probably why these "blessed and holy" ones who took part in the First Resurrection were symbolically called "priests of God" in Revelation 20:6.

The "priests of God" in Revelation 20:6, just like the "priests of God'  Revelation 1:6 and 5:10 are the saints, the living breathing believers in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. 

Offline 3 Resurrections

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #33 on: Tue Aug 08, 2017 - 09:03:45 »
4WD  -  Exactly. 

You have just given a description that perfectly fits the Matthew 27:52-53 Firstfruits saints of the First Resurrection.

"...the saints, the living breathing believers in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior."

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Re: What Does the Millennium Mean to You?
« Reply #34 on: Tue Aug 08, 2017 - 09:16:55 »
4WD  -  Exactly. 

You have just given a description that perfectly fits the Matthew 27:52-53 Firstfruits saints of the First Resurrection.

"...the saints, the living breathing believers in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior."

The first resurrection being that spoken of by Jesus in John 5:24-25, namely, regeneration.  Matthew 27:52-53 is not prophecy but history.