Author Topic: What is the Abomination of Desolation?  (Read 869 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9467
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« on: Thu Jul 08, 2021 - 06:07:40 »
Let us look into the scriptures and see the answer to this question~a subject of great importance concerning its relation to end-time events and knowing the signs given to us so we would be prepared for those days and to help the generation that will come after us know as well, "if" there is another generation to follow, only God knows.   

We shall see that the term abomination of desolation, man of sin, and antichrist that shall come are all one and the same prophecy of the same timeline events, and speaking of the very same doctrine~three ways of saying the same thing, yet each have its own peculiar meaning and by using those different terms it just gives us added light to this period of time prophesied first by Daniel and explained in more details by Jesus, Paul, and John. 

This will take several posts to complete if we are able to do so........we shall see. We shall answer this question in this thread that's found here: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/what-is-the-time-of-jacobs-trouble/

First post coming later today~RB

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5829
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 08:57:31 by Amo »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9467
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #2 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 04:05:19 »
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/seventh-day-adventist-forum-(sda)/sabbath-sunday-and-the-abomination-of-desolation/

The subject is addressed thoroughly at the ab one link.
Amo, I just sightly glanced over the thread, but will give much more time to it later today. Your understanding of the Abomination that God will make desolate is not what I see in the scriptures, truly not even close. But, in all fairness, let me carefully look at your thread more in-depth with an open mind. RB

Offline Choir Loft

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 504
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • REPENT - the hour of judgment is upon us
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 07:57:05 »
Let us look into the scriptures and see the answer to this question~a subject of great importance concerning its relation to end-time events and knowing the signs given to us so we would be prepared for those days and to help the generation that will come after us know as well, "if" there is another generation to follow, only God knows.   

We shall see that the term abomination of desolation, man of sin, and antichrist that shall come are all one and the same prophecy of the same timeline events, and speaking of the very same doctrine~three ways of saying the same thing, yet each have its own peculiar meaning and by using those different terms it just gives us added light to this period of time prophesied first by Daniel and explained in more details by Jesus, Paul, and John. 

This will take several posts to complete if we are able to do so........we shall see. We shall answer this question in this thread that's found here: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/what-is-the-time-of-jacobs-trouble/

First post coming later today~RB


The above is entirely bogus - a regurgitated form of the Roman Catholic dogma of FUTURISM concocted in the 16th century.   It was false then and its rubbish today.

If one REALLY wishes to consult the Bible a whole new interpretation will reveal itself - an ancient one to be sure.

Daniel's reference to the "abomination of desolation" initially meant the Hebrew TEMPLE in Jerusalem.

The Temple was the center of Hebrew religious ceremony and faith.  It was Solomon's temple, the first temple, that had been desecrated in Daniel's day.  Israel had SINNED against God and as a result their vast empire, which had extended from the Mediterranean Sea to the Euphrates river of modern Iraq, was divided and occupied by other nations.  The survivors of the tempest that God brought against Israel were marched to Babylon where they were held captive for seventy years.  Daniel was living in Babylon after the desecration of the temple and wrote of future times.

The temple of Solomon was destroyed by the Chaldeans on the 9th of Av, which is observed by modern Jews as Tisha B'Av.  Tisha B'Av is now an annual day of fasting among Jews to observe the disasters that followed.

Following their return to Eretz Israel, the land of Israel, the Jews rebuilt the temple.   It didn't last long, however.  When the Greeks conquered the middle east under Alexander the land of Israel was annexed.   The Maccabean Revolt was the result of Greek desecration of the Temple in Jerusalem.  This was the second fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy and it applied to the TEMPLE.  This also happened on the 9th of AV.  Coincidence?

In the year 70AD the Roman Empire destroyed the entire city of Jerusalem including the Temple.  This is the third time the Jewish people were humbled and their temple desecrated.  It happened on the 9th of AV.  Coincidence?

Further abominations against the Jewish people happened in the centuries that followed - ALL ON THE 9TH OF AV.
- In 1096 the 1st Crusade commenced.  10,000 Jews were killed in the first month. Jewish communities in France and the Rhineland were destroyed.
- In the year 1290 Jews were expelled from England and in 1306 they were expelled from France.
- In 1492, the year Columbus sailed the ocean blue, Jews were expelled from Spain.
- In 1914 Germany entered WWI, which ultimately led to the holocaust a few decades later.
- In 1941 Heinrich Himmler received approval for the Final Solution of mass murder of European Jews.
- In 1942 the mass exportation of Jews from the Warsaw ghetto to the death camp of Treblinka began.

ALL ON THE 9TH OF AV.

Coincidence?   Or is God saying something about Tisha B'Av?

The Bible identifies the anti-Christ system, using the template provided by Daniel, as the Roman Catholic church.  That anti-Semitic religion has been responsible for more deaths of the saints than any other religion on the planet, yet protestants continue to embrace its doctrines and false ideology - including the false interpretation of Daniel's 'abomination of desolation'.

No Christian can properly interpret the prophecies of the Bible when they deny the LAW and the writings of the Tanakh (Old Testament), yet they continue to vomit their illusions to the world to this day.

Daniel's prophecy repeated many times throughout history.  It remains to be seen if it will happen again. 

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

PS  The Beast identified in Revelation is a religious system, not a man.  The horns of the beast of Revelation 13 signify a progression of leaders - Popes.  The RCC has itself identified, by way of blaspheme, who this man of SIN really is.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth." - Barclay Cap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V.
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 08:05:40 by Choir Loft »

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 07:57:05 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5829
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 09:31:41 »
Amo, I just sightly glanced over the thread, but will give much more time to it later today. Your understanding of the Abomination that God will make desolate is not what I see in the scriptures, truly not even close. But, in all fairness, let me carefully look at your thread more in-depth with an open mind. RB

Perhaps the following chapter from the link I provided earlier can clarify my position.

4-The Abominations and Filthiness of Her Fornication

Having already established the Church of Rome’s adulterous relations with the kings of the earth, let us move on to the abomination and filthiness of her fornication. As it is the intention of the writer to prove from history that the identifying marks of the Mother of Harlots apply to the Church of Rome, it is therefore necessary to examine the records of history. 

Before we begin to examine some of this history, let us first discover the meaning of an abomination from the scriptures. What did the Lord refer to as an abomination in the Holy Scriptures? The answer to this question, will determine what we will identify as such, within the Church of Rome. 

Deuteronomy 7 25 The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God. 26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination[/u] into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.

Worshipping, or bowing down to, or owning idols, is an abomination to the Lord.

Deuteronomy 12 29 When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; 30 Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou inquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31 Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. 32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Following the example of how other nations worshiped their god’s is an abomination unto the Lord.

Deuteronomy 17 1 Thou shalt not sacrifice unto the LORD thy God any bullock, or sheep, wherein is blemish, or any evilfavouredness: for that is an abomination unto the LORD thy God. 2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, 3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and inquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.

Offering and incomplete or blemished sacrifice to the Lord, is an abomination unto the Lord.  Worshiping other god’s, particularly the sun, moon, or stars, is an abomination unto the Lord.

Deuteronomy 18 9 When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. 10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. 12 For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. 13 Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God.

It is an abomination for God’s people to learn to do after the people which the Lord has given into their hands. They should not worship their god’s, or incorporate their practices of worship into their own.

Deuteronomy 32 16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger. 17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not. 18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee. 19 And when the LORD saw it, he abhorred them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters. 20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith

Incorporating the practices of other religions into the true religion, is an abomination unto the Lord.

II Kings 23 23 But in the eighteenth year of king Josiah, wherein this passover was holden to the LORD in Jerusalem. 24 Moreover the workers with familiar spirits, and the wizards, and the images, and the idols, and all the abominations that were spied in the land of Judah and in Jerusalem, did Josiah put away, that he might perform the words of the law which were written in the book that Hilkiah the priest found in the house of the LORD.

Those who spoke to the dead, practiced magic, worshipped images and idols, were an abomination unto the Lord.

Ezra 9 12 Now therefore give not your daughters unto their sons, neither take their daughters unto your sons, nor seek their peace or their wealth for ever: that ye may be strong, and eat the good of the land, and leave it for an inheritance to your children for ever. 13 And after all that is come upon us for our evil deeds, and for our great trespass, seeing that thou our God hast punished us less than our iniquities deserve, and hast given us such deliverance as this; 14 Should we again break thy commandments, and join in affinity with the people of these abominations? wouldest not thou be angry with us till thou hadst consumed us, so that there should be no remnant nor escaping?

Practicing the abominations of the nations around them, was the breaking of God’s commandments. The breaking of God’s commandments is an abomination. Not just that someone sinned, but that they accepted and believed, and practiced, that which was the breaking of God’s commandments. This is an abomination.   

No doubt, many reading have already associated many of the above abominations with the Church of Rome. For her adherents do pray to the dead in Mary and the saints. They do also bow down to images of the same. Many of these very images were incorporated from the pagan religions which permeated through the Church of Rome, through her absorbance of the pagan worshippers that were declared Christian by the edicts of kings and emperors. The effect of which, was the amalgamation of pagan and Christian practices. 

The vast majority of Christians worship God today, on the day of the Sun. They do not realize where, by whom, and how this day was even established. The previous chapter touched upon this subject briefly in order to show the Church of Rome’s connection to the kings of this earth.  Some of the same material will be repeated in this chapter, since the establishment of Sunday worship is synonymous with the harlot committing fornication with the kings of the earth, as well as having a cup full of the abominations of her fornication. These two go hand in hand, since it is by her adulteress relations with the kings of the earth that the practices of their pagan religions became intertwined with this apostate Christian entity. In any case, even though many may already know these things, here is some of the history of how they came about. The following is from The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon, Chapter 28.

Quote
The worship of the Christian martyrs
The ruin of the Pagan religion is described by the sophists as a dreadful and amazing prodigy, which covered the earth with darkness and restored the ancient dominion of chaos and of night. They relate in solemn and pathetic strains; that the temples were converted into sepulchres, and that the holy places, which had been adorned by the statues of the gods, were basely polluted by the relics of Christian martyrs. "The monks" (a race of filthy animals, to whom; Eunapius is tempted to refuse the name of men) "are the authors of the new worship, which, in the place of those deities who are conceived by the understanding, has substituted the meanest and most contemptible slaves. The heads, salted and pickled, of those infamous malefactors, who for the multitude of their crimes have suffered a just and ignominious death; their bodies, still marked by the impression of the lash and the scars of those tortures which were inflicted by the sentence of the magistrate; such" (continues Eunapius) "are the gods which the earth produces in our days; such are the martyrs, the supreme arbitrators of our prayers and petitions to the Deity, whose tombs are now consecrated as the objects of the veneration of the people." Without approving the malice, it is natural enough to share the surprise of the sophist, the spectator of a revolution which raised those obscure victims of the laws of Rome to the rank of celestial and invisible protectors of the Roman empire. The grateful respect of the Christians for the martyrs of the faith was exalted, by time and victory, into religious adoration; and the most illustrious of the saints and prophets were deservedly associated to the honours of the martyrs. One hundred and fifty years after the glorious deaths of St. Peter and St. Paul, the Vatican and the Ostian road were distinguished by the tombs, or rather by the trophies, of those; spiritual heroes. In the age which followed the conversion of Constantine, the emperors, the consuls, and the generals of armies devoutly visited the sepulchres of a tent-maker and a fisherman; and their venerable bones were deposited under the altars of Christ, on which the bishops of the royal city continually offered the unbloody sacrifice. The new capital of the Eastern world, unable to produce any ancient and domestic trophies, was enriched by the spoils of dependent provinces. The bodies of St. Andrew, St. Luke, and St. Timothy had reposed near three hundred years in the obscure graves from whence they were transported, in solemn pomp, to the church of the apostles, which the magnificence of Constantine had founded on the banks of the Thracian Bosphorus. About fifty years afterwards the same banks were honoured by the presence of Samuel, the judge and prophet of the people of Israel. His ashes, deposited in a golden vase, and covered with a silken veil, were delivered by the bishops into each other's hands. The relics of Samuel were received by the people with the same joy and reverence which they would have shown to the living prophet; the highways, from Palestine to the gates of Constantinople, were filled with an uninterrupted procession; and the emperor Arcadius himself, at the head of the most illustrious members of the clergy and senate, advanced to meet his extraordinary guest, who had always deserved and claimed the homage of kings.  The example of Rome and Constantinople confirmed the faith and discipline of the catholic world. The honours of the saints and martyrs, after a feeble and ineffectual murmur of profane reason, were universally established; and in the age of Ambrose and Jerome something was still deemed wanting to the sanctity of a Christian church, till it had been consecrated by some portion of holy relics, which fixed and inflamed the devotion of the faithful.

General Reflections
In the long period of twelve hundred years, which elapsed between the reign of Constantine and the reformation of Luther, the worship of saints and relics corrupted the pure and perfect simplicity of the Christian model; and some symptoms of degeneracy may be observed even in the first generations which adopted and cherished this pernicious innovation.

I. Fabulous martyrs and relics.
I. The satisfactory experience that the relics of saints were more valuable than gold or precious stones stimulated the clergy to multiply the treasures of the church. Without much regard for truth or probability, they invented names for skeletons, and actions for names. The fame of the apostles, and of the holy men who had imitated their virtues, was darkened by religious fiction. To the invincible band of genuine and primitive martyrs they added myriads of imaginary heroes, who had never existed, except in the fancy of crafty or credulous legendaries; and there is reason to suspect that Tours might not be the only diocese in which the bones of a malefactor were adored instead of those of a saint.  A superstitious practice, which tended to increase the temptations of fraud and credulity, insensibly extinguished the light of history and of reason in the Christian world.


II Miracles
II. But the progress of superstition would have been much less rapid and victorious if the faith of the people had not been assisted by the seasonable aid of visions and miracles to ascertain the authenticity and virtue of the most suspicious relics. In the reign of the younger Theodosius, Lucian, a presbyter of Jerusalem, and the ecclesiastical minister of the village of Caphargamala, about twenty miles from the city, related a very singular dream, which, to remove his doubts, had been repeated on three successive Saturdays. A venerable figure stood before him, in the silence of the night, with a long beard, a white robe, and a gold rod; announced himself by the name of Gamaliel; and revealed to the astonished presbyter, that his own corpse, with the bodies of his son Abibas, his friend Nicodemus, and the illustrious Stephen, the first martyr of the Christian faith, were secretly buried in the adjacent field. He added, with some impatience, that it was time to release himself and his companions from their obscure prison; that their appearance would be salutary to a distressed world; and that they had made choice of Lucian to inform the bishop of Jerusalem of their situation and their wishes. The doubts and difficulties which still retarded this important discovery were successively removed by new visions; and the ground was opened by the bishop in the presence of an innumerable multitude; The coffins of Gamaliel, of his son, and of his friend, were found in regular order; but when the fourth coffin, which contained the remains of Stephen, was shown to the light, the earth trembled, and an odour such as that of Paradise was smelt, which instantly cured the various diseases of seventy-three of the assistants. The companions of Stephen were left in their peaceful residence of Caphargamala; but the relics of the first martyr were transported, in solemn procession, to a church constructed in their honour on Mount Sion; and the minute particles of those relics, a drop of blood, or the scrapings of a bone, were acknowledged, in almost every province of the Roman world, to possess a divine and miraculous virtue. The grave and learned Augustin, whose understanding scarcely admits the excuse of credulity, has attested the innumerable prodigies which were performed in Africa by the relics of St. Stephen; and this marvellous narrative is inserted in the elaborate work of the City of God, which the bishop of Hippo designed as a solid and immortal proof of the truth of Christianity. Augustin solemnly declares that he has selected those miracles only which were publicly certified by the persons who were either the objects, or the spectators, of the power of the martyr. Many prodigies were omitted or forgotten; and Hippo had been less favourably treated than the other cities of the province. And yet the bishop enumerates above seventy miracles, of which three were resurrections from the dead, in the space of two years, and within the limits of his own diocese. If we enlarge our view to all the diocese, and all the saints, of the Christian world, it will not be easy to calculate the fables, and the errors, which issued from this inexhaustible source. But we may surely be allowed to observe that a miracle, in that age of superstition and credulity, lost its name and its merit, since it could scarcely be considered as a deviation from the ordinary and established: laws of nature.

III Revival of polytheism.
III. The innumerable miracles, of which the tombs of the martyrs were the perpetual theatre, revealed to the pious believer the actual state and constitution of the invisible world; and his religious speculations appeared to be founded on the firm basis of fact and experience. What ever might be the condition of vulgar souls in the long interval between the dissolution and the resurrection of their bodies, it was evident. that the superior spirits of the saints and martyrs did not consume that portion of their existence in silent and inglorious sleep. It was evident (without presuming to determine the place of their habitation, or the nature of their felicity) that they enjoyed the lively and active consciousness of their happiness, their virtue, and their powers; and that they had already secured the possession of their eternal reward. The enlargement of their intellectual faculties surpassed the measure of the human imagination; since it was proved by experience that they were capable of hearing and understanding the various petitions of their numerous votaries, who, in the same moment of time, but in the most distant parts of the world, invoked the name and assistance of Stephen or of Martin. The confidence of their petitioners was founded on the persuasion that the saints, who reigned with Christ, cast an eye of pity upon earth; that they were warmly interested in the prosperity of the Catholic church; and that the individuals who imitated the example of their faith and piety were the peculiar and favourite objects of their most tender regard. Sometimes, indeed, their friendship might be influenced by considerations of a less exalted kind: they viewed with partial affection the places which had been consecrated by their birth, their residence, their death, their burial, or the possession of their relics. The meaner passions of pride, avarice, and revenge, may be deemed unworthy of a celestial breast; yet the saints themselves condescended to testify their grateful approbation of the liberality of their votaries; and the sharpest bolts of punishment were hurled against those impious wretches who violated their magnificent shrines, or disbelieved their supernatural power. Atrocious, indeed, must have been the guilt, and strange would have been the scepticism, of those men, if they had obstinately resisted the proofs of a divine agency, which the elements, the whole range of the animal creation, and even the subtle and invisible operations of the human mind, were compelled to obey. The immediate, and almost instantaneous, effects, that were supposed to follow the prayer, or the offence, satisfied the Christians of the ample measure of favour and authority which the saints enjoyed in the presence of the Supreme God; and it seemed almost superfluous to inquire whether they were continually obliged to intercede before the throne of grace, or whether they might not be permitted to exercise, according to the dictates of their benevolence and justice, the delegated powers of their subordinate ministry. The imagination, which had been raised by a painful effort to the contemplation and worship of the Universal Cause, eagerly embraced such inferior objects of adoration as were more proportioned to its gross conceptions and imperfect faculties. The sublime and simple theology of the primitive Christians was gradually corrupted: and the MONARCHY of heaven, already clouded by metaphysical subtleties, was degraded by the introduction of a popular mythology which tended to restore the reign of polytheism.

IV Introduction of Pagan ceremonies.
IV. As the objects of religion were gradually reduced to the standard of the imagination, the rites and ceremonies were introduced that seemed most powerfully to affect the senses of the vulgar. If, in the beginning of the fifth century, Tertullian, or Lactantius, had been suddenly raised from the dead, to assist at the festival of some popular saint or martyr, they would have gazed with astonishment and indignation on the profane spectacle which had succeeded to the pure and spiritual worship of a Christian congregation. As soon as the doors of the church were thrown open, they must have been offended by the smoke of incense, the perfume of flowers, and the glare of lamps and tapers, which diffused, at noon-day, a gaudy, superfluous, and, in their opinion, a sacrilegious light. If they approached the balustrade of the altar, they made their way through the prostrate crowd, consisting, for the most part, of strangers and pilgrims, who resorted to the city on the vigil of the feast; and who already felt the strong intoxication of fanaticism, and, perhaps, of wine. Their devout kisses were imprinted on the walls and pavement of the sacred edifice; and their fervent prayers were directed, whatever might be the language of their church, to the bones, the blood, or the ashes of the saint, which were usually concealed, by a linen or silken veil, from the eyes of the vulgar. The Christians frequented the tombs of the martyrs, in the hope of obtaining, from their powerful intercession, every sort of spiritual, but more especially of temporal, blessings. They implored the preservation of their health, or the cure of their infirmities; the fruitfulness of their barren wives, or the safety and happiness of their children. Whenever they undertook any distant or dangerous journey, they requested that the holy martyrs would be their guides and protectors on the road; and if they returned without having experienced any misfortune, they again hastened to the tombs of the martyrs, to celebrate, with grateful thanksgivings, their obligations to the memory and relics of those heavenly patrons. The walls were hung round with symbols of the favours which they had received; eyes, and hands, and feet, of gold and silver: and edifying pictures, which could not long escape the abuse of indiscreet or idolatrous devotion, represented the image, the attributes, and the miracles of the tutelar saint. The same uniform original spirit of superstition might suggest, in the most distant ages and countries, the same methods of deceiving the credulity, and of affecting the senses of mankind: but it must ingenuously be confessed that the ministers of the catholic church imitated the profane model which they were impatient to destroy. The most respectable bishops had persuaded themselves that the ignorant rustics would more cheerfully renounce the superstitions of Paganism, if they found some resemblance, some compensation, in the bosom of Christianity. The religion of Constantine achieved, in less than a century, the final conquest of the Roman empire: but the victors themselves were insensibly subdued by the arts of their vanquished rivals.
( The Decline And Fall Of The Roman Empire by Edward Gibbon, Chapter 28 )

The above account by Edward Gibbon, is a revelation of the repetitive cycle of the history of humanity in relation to God’s grace and mercy towards us. Just as the nation of Israel in the days of old, continuously fell prey to the dangers of success, so too did Christianity follow in suit. 

When God had blessed the nation of Israel, and had subdued her enemies round about, apostasy was soon at the doors. It was by trusting in alliances with other heathen nations, and incorporating the religious practices of these nations, and those which they had conquered, that the apostasy spread throughout Israel. These things were repeatedly denounced by God’s prophets, as abominations. So to, as soon as Christianity had conquered paganism, if you will, she made the same mistakes. Incorporating the religious practices and ceremonies of conquered paganism into her own ranks. It was thus, that she obtained the favor of those who once opposed her, including the kings of this earth. Having established their approval, they then entered into forbidden relationships with these kings, and their unconverted subjects.

That which was abominable in the sight of God during the old covenant, was, and is still abominable to Him today. The Church of Rome, is the Mother of all apostate “ Christian” entities of this world, that have incorporated these abominations within their ranks. That is, the religious practices and ceremonies of paganism, and the reliance upon the civil powers of this earth to enforce their dogmas. Let us examine some more history regarding the same.

Quote
“Popery, then, we hold to be an after-growth of Paganism,……………………… Its oracles had been silenced, its shrines demolished, and its gods consigned to oblivion; but the deep corruption of the human race, not yet cured by the promised effusion of the Spirit upon all flesh, revived it anew, and, under a Christian mask, reared other temples in its honour, built it another Pantheon, and replenished it with other gods, which, in fact, were but the ancient divinities under new names. All idolatries, in whatever age or country they have existed, are to be viewed but as successive developments of the one grand apostacy. That apostacy was commenced in Eden, and consummated at Rome. It had its rise in the plucking of the forbidden fruit; and it attained its acme in the supremacy of the Bishop of Rome,--Christ's Vicar on earth. The hope that he would "be as God," led man to commit the first sin; and that sin was perfected when the Pope "exalted himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he, as God, sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." Popery is but the natural development of this great original transgression. It is just the early idolatries ripened and perfected. It is manifestly an enormous expansion of the same intensely malignant and fearfully destructive principle which these idolatries contained. The ancient Chaldean worshipping the sun,--the Greek deifying the powers of nature,--and the Roman exalting the race of primeval men into gods, are but varied manifestations of the same evil principle, namely, the utter alienation of the heart from God,--its proneness to hide itself amid the darkness of its own corrupt imaginations, and to become a god unto itself. That principle received the most fearful development which appears possible on earth, in the Mystery of Iniquity which came to be seated on the Seven Hills; for therein man deified himself, became God, nay, arrogated powers which lifted him high above God. Popery is the last, the most matured, the most subtle, the most skilfully contriven, and the most essentially diabolical form of idolatry which the world ever saw, or which, there is reason to believe, it ever will see. It is the ne plus ultra of man's wickedness, and the chef d'oeuvre of Satan's cunning and malignity. It is the greatest calamity, next to the Fall, which ever befell the human family. Farther away from God the world could not exist at all. The cement that holds society together, already greatly weakened, would be altogether destroyed, and the social fabric would instantly fall in ruins.”
( History of the Papacy. By Rev. J.A. Wylie, LL.D. Chapter I. )

Quote
No sooner were the apostles removed from the stage of action, no sooner was their watchful attention gone and their apostolic authority removed, than this very thing appeared of which the apostle had spoken. Certain bishops, in order to make easier the conversion of the heathen, to multiply disciples, and by this increase their own influence and authority, began to adopt heathen customs and forms.

When the canon of Scripture was closed, and the last of the apostles was dead, the first century was gone; and within twenty years of that time the perversion of the truth of Christ had become wide-spread. In the history of this century and of this subject the record is, —
“It is certain that to religious worship, both public and private, many rites were added, without necessity, and to the offense of sober and good men.”  ( Mosheim - “Ecclesiastical History,” Murdock’s translation, century 2, part 2, chap. iv, par. 1. )

 And the reason of this is stated to be that —
“The Christians were pronounced atheists, because they were destitute of temples, altars, victims, priests, and all that pomp in which the vulgar suppose the essence of religion to consist. For unenlightened persons are prone to estimate religion by what meets their eyes. To silence this accusation, the Christian doctors thought it necessary to introduce some external rites, which would strike the senses of the people, so that they could maintain themselves really to possess all those things of which Christians were charged with being destitute, though under different forms.” ( Mosheim - Id., par. 3. )

This was at once to accommodate the Christian worship and its forms to that of the heathen, and was almost at one step to heathenize Christianity. No heathen element or form can be connected with Christianity or its worship, and Christianity remain pure.

Of all the ceremonies of the heathen, the mysteries were the most sacred and most universally practised. Some mysteries were in honor of Bacchus, some of Cybele, but the greatest of all, those considered the most sacred of all and the most widely practised, were the Eleusinian, so called because celebrated at Eleusis in Greece. But whatever was the mystery that was celebrated, there was always in it, as an essential part of it, the elements of abomination that characterized sun-worship everywhere, because the mysteries were simply forms of the wide-spread and multiform worship of the sun.

We will pause here between quotes for a brief moment to take note of the above statement.  The vast majority of the pagan rites and ceremonies adopted by apostate Christianity, were elements of the many, and varied forms of Sun worship. This same fact holds true also, to the varied forms of worship adopted by apostate Israel during the old covenant. This issue we will address in greater detail later in this book.

Quote
Among the first of the perversions of the Christian worship was to give to its forms the title and air of the mysteries. For says the record: —
“Among the Greeks and the people of the East, nothing was held more sacred than what were called the mysteries. This circumstance led the Christians, in order to impart dignity to their religion, to say that they also had similar mysteries, or certain holy rites concealed from the vulgar; and they not only applied the terms used in the pagan mysteries to Christian institutions, particularly baptism and the Lord’s Supper, but they gradually introduced also the rites which were designated by these terms.”  ( Mosheim - Id., par. 5. )

It was to accommodate the Christian worship to the minds of a people who practised these things that the bishops gave to the Christian ordinances the name of mysteries. The Lord’s Supper was made the greater mystery, baptism the lesser and the initiatory rite to the celebration of the former. After the heathen manner also a white garment was used as the initiatory robe, and the candidate, having been baptized, and thus initiated into the lesser mysteries, was admitted into what was called in the church the order of catechumens, in which order they remained a certain length of time, as in the heathen celebration, before they were admitted to the celebration of the Lord’s Supper, the greater mystery.

“This practice originated in the Eastern provinces, and then after the time of Hadrian (who first introduced the pagan mysteries among the Latins) it spread among the Christians of the West.” The reign of Hadrian was from 117-138. Therefore, before the second century was half gone, before the last of the apostles had been dead forty years, this apostasy, this working of the mystery of iniquity, had so largely spread over both the East and the West, that it is literally true that “a large part, therefore, of the Christian observances and institutions, even in this century, had the aspect of the pagan mysteries.”  ( Mosheim - “Ecclesiastical History,” century 2, part 2, chap. 4, par. 5. )
  ( The Great Empires of Prophecy, A. T. Jones )

     
Quote
When Christianity conquered Rome the ecclesiastical structure of the pagan church, the title and vestments of the pontifex maximus, the worship of the Great Mother and a multitude of comforting divinities, the sense of supersensible presences everywhere, the joy or solemnity of old festivals, and the pageantry of immemorial ceremony, passed like maternal blood into the new religion, and captive Rome captured her conqueror.  The reins and skill of government were handed down by a dying empire to a virile papacy; the lost power of the broken sword was rewon by the magic of the consoling word; the armies of the state were replaced by the missionaries of the Church moving in all directions along the Roman roads; and the revolted provinces, accepting Christianity, again acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome.  Through the long struggles of the Age of Faith the authority of the ancient capital persisted and grew, until in the Renaissance the classic culture seemed to rise from the grave, and the immortal city became once more the center of summit of the world's life and wealth and art.  When, in 1936, Rome celebrated the 2689th anniversary of her foundation, she could look back upon the most impressive continuity of government and civilization in the history of mankind.  May she rise again.
(CAESAR AND CHRIST, A history of Roman Civilization and of Christianity from their beginnings to A.D.325. By Will Durant-1944)

Quote
“A law of the year 321 ordered tribunals, shops, and workshops to be closed on the day of the sun, and he [Constantine] sent to the legions, to be recited upon that day, a form of prayer which could have been employed by a worshiper of Mithra, of Serapis, or of Apollo, quite as well as by a Christian believer. This was the official sanction of the old custom of addressing a prayer to the rising sun. IN DETERMINING WHAT DAYS SHOULD BE REGARDED AS HOLY, and in the composition of a prayer for national use, CONSTANTINE
EXERCISED ONE OF THE RIGHTS BELONGING TO HIM AS PONTIFEX MAXIMUS; and it caused no surprise that he should do this.”
( Duruy - “History of Rome,” chap. 102, part 1:par. 4 from end. )

Quote
The text of Constantine's Sunday Law of 321 A.D. is :
"One the venerable day of the Sun let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country however persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits because it often happens that another day is not suitable for gain-sowing or vine planting; lest by neglecting the proper moment for such operations the bounty of heaven should be lost.
(Given the 7th day of March, Crispus and Constantine being consuls each of them the second time." Codex Justinianus, lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; translated in History of the Christian Church, Philip Schaff, D.D., (7-vol.ed.) Vol. III, p.380. New York, 1884)

Quote
Dr. A.Chr. Bang says regarding this Law :
"This Sunday law constituted no real favoratism to Christianity..... It is evident from all his statuatory provisions that the Emperor during the time 313-323 with full consciousness has sought the realisation of his religeous aim: the amalgamation of heathenism and Christianity." Kirken og Romerstaten
(The Church and the Roman State p.256. Christiania, 1879)

Quote
J. Westbury-Jones, an English writer, speaks thus: “ How such a law would further the designs of Constantine it is not difficult to discover.  It would confer a special honor upon the festival of the Christian church, and it would grant a slight boon to the pagans themselves.  In fact there is nothing in this edict which might not have been written by a pagan.  The law does honor to the pagan deity whom Constantine had adopted as his special patron god, Apollo or the sun [Constantine retained the motto “Soli Invicto” to the end of his life].  The very name of the day lent itself to this ambiguity.  The term Sunday (dies Solis) was in use among Christians as well as heathen.”
(Roman and Christian Imperialism, p. 210)

Quote
The retention of the old pagan name of “dies Solis” or “Sunday”, for the weekly Christian festival, is in great measure owing to the union of pagan and Christian sentiment with which the first day of the week was recommended by Constantine to his subjects, pagan and Christian alike, as the “venerable day of the sun”.  His decree regulating it’s observance has been justly called a new era in the history of the Lord’s day.  It was his mode of harmonizing the discordant religions of the empire under one common institution.
(A. P. Stanely, History of the Eastern Church, p. 184)

Quote
"Our observance of Sunday as the Lord's day is apparently derived from Mithraism. The argument that has sometimes been used against this claim, namely, that Sunday was chosen because of the resurrection on that day, is not well supported."
(Gordon J. Laing, "Survivals of Roman Religion," p. 148.)

Quote
"As a solar festival, Sunday was the sacred day of Mithra; and it is interesting to notice that since Mithra was addressed as Dominus, 'Lord,' Sunday must have been the 'Lord's Day' long before the Christian times."
(A. Weigall, "The Paganism in Our Christianity," p. 145.)

We have now established that the Church of Rome has unquestionably committed fornication with the kings of the earth, which resulted in her wielding of the cup filled with the abominations of the earth. We have also established that Sun worship played an extensive roll in filling this cup of abominations. This would include the fact that Sunday sacredness was established through this union of apostate Christianity and Sun worshipping paganism. Thus, Sunday sacredness, is as much of an abomination to God, as is any other of the pagan rites and ceremonies adopted by apostate Christianity. Let us move on to the establishment of the identifying mark regarding the blood of the saints.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 09:31:41 »



Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9467
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #5 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 13:44:24 »
The above is entirely bogus - a regurgitated form of the Roman Catholic dogma of FUTURISM concocted in the 16th century.   It was false then and its rubbish today.
Amazing you know this without me even saying hardly a word on this subject, other than
Quote from: RB OP
We shall see that the term abomination of desolation, man of sin, and antichrist that shall come are all one and the same prophecy of the same timeline events, and speaking of the very same doctrine~three ways of saying the same thing, yet each have its own peculiar meaning and by using those different terms it just gives us added light to this period of time prophesied first by Daniel and explained in more details by Jesus, Paul, and John.
Be sure of this Mr. Blowhard for one to have the correct doctrine concerning this subject of Abomination of Desolation, they MUST say "the term abomination of desolation, man of sin, and antichrist that shall come are all one and the same prophecy of the same timeline events, and speaking of the very same doctrine"~or, else they will be in error, that we are "totally convinced" we can prove.
Quote from: Mr. Confused on: Today at 07:57:05
Daniel's reference to the "abomination of desolation" initially meant the Hebrew TEMPLE in Jerusalem.
Wrong. so wrong! While I agree with Amo's overall definition of abomination~Daniel's references of it has not one thing to do with the Jews' Temple in Jerusalem~Jesus made this very clear to him that can read Daniel and have ears to hear as Christ gives us an interpretation of Daniel's use of the term abomination of desolation.
Quote from: Jesus' interpretation of Daniel's abomination that maketh desolate~Matthew 24:1-25
Matthew 24:15~"When ye, therefore, shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)"
I have heard men twist this verse around to saying something totally different than what Jesus clearly said. One does not FIRST read Daniel in order to understand what Jesus is teaching in Matthew 24, but one MUST hear Christ teaching in Matthew 24 to understand exactly what Daniel was speaking about~in other words, Jesus will tell us what Daniel meant if we listen carefully to him in this discourse of recorded Matthew 24; Mark 13 and Luke 21. We shall cover this shortly from verses 3-25.
Quote from: Mr. Talkative
No Christian can properly interpret the prophecies of the Bible when they deny the LAW and the writings of the Tanakh (Old Testament), yet they continue to vomit their illusions to the world to this day.
You make very little sense, by bringing in the law (In what sense I have no clue, and most likely neither do you.) into the study of the Abomination of Desolation.
Quote from: Mr. Worldly Wiseman
Daniel's prophecy repeated many times throughout history.  It remains to be seen if it will happen again.
Daniel's prophecy concerning the "Abomination of Desolation"~according to Jesus Christ WAS YET IN THE FUTURE, even in the little season of Revelation 20! So, I'll go with Christ and his interpretation of Daniel's prophecy for us, while you keep hollering into the air. 

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9467
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #6 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 14:06:12 »
http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/seventh-day-adventist-forum-(sda)/sabbath-sunday-and-the-abomination-of-desolation/

The subject is addressed thoroughly at the above link.
Amo,  briefly I will say this~By definition, the Abomination of Desolation is something abhorrent to God that will bring to ruin or devastation. And when we search the Bible diligently, comparing scripture with scripture (the correct form in Biblical hermeneutics), we find that in almost all instances where the pertinent where the word abomination is found, it is dealing in some way with God's people falling away to serve the gods of the heathen nations~just as you said above. In other words, it clearly illustrates apostasy and spiritual idolatry of the Lord's profess people in turning away from Him to serve false gods. It is in this context of the word that we find that the abominable and disgusting thing that God hates, is His people forsaking Him to follow their own depraved heart be it in practical godliness, or doctrine. It is this abomination that will leave their house in ruins or desolated. Just as it happened to the OT church, SO WILL it happen again to the Gentiles churches. The holy scriptures are replete with examples of this abomination~some of which you provided already, yet not any from the NT which we shall consider as we move forward.

You LIMIT most this fallen away to the Catholic Church, and we do not, yet believe she the biggest whore in Mystery Babylon, but she's not by herself, just about ALL have followed her ways and shall be judged along with her. Actually, our Lord said if he had not shortened those days NO FLESH would have been saved~that is: in a practical sense of not being given over to the many abominations that shall fill the church of the latter-day just before his coming.

Later....RB
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 12, 2021 - 05:07:30 by RB »

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5829
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #7 on: Sun Jul 11, 2021 - 14:59:23 »
Amo,  briefly I will say this~By definition, the Abomination of Desolation is something abhorrent to God that will bring to ruin or devastation. And when we search the Bible diligently, comparing scripture with scripture (the correct form in Biblical hermeneutics), we find that in almost all instances where the pertinent where the word abomination is found, it is dealing in some way with God's people falling away to serve the gods of the heathen nations~just as you said above. In other words, it clearly illustrates apostasy and spiritual idolatry of the Lord's profess people in turning away from Him to serve false gods. It is in this context of the word that we find that the abominable and disgusting thing that God hates, is His people forsaking Him to follow their own depraved heart be it in practical godliness, or doctrine. It is this abomination that will leave their house in ruins or desolated. Just as it happened to the OT church, SO WILL it happen again to the Gentiles churches. The holy scriptures are replete with examples of this abomination~some of which you provided already, yet not any from the NT which we shall consider as we move forward.

You LIMIT most this fallen away to the Catholic Church, and we do not, yet believe she the biggest whore in Mystery Babylon, but she not by herself, just about ALL have followed her ways and shall be judged along with her. Actually, our Lord said if he had not shortened those days NO FLESH would have been saved~that is: in a practical sense of not being given over to the many abominations that shall fill the church of the latter-day just before his coming.

Later....RB

I do not limit all these things to the Church of Rome, BAYLON THE GREAT, but simply point her out as the Mother of harlots. To be sure many professed Protestant institutions have played and do increasingly play the role of her daughters, along with other denominations and religions. All of whom she is calling and gathering together under her banner in the unification of humanity in rebellion against God. Spiritually rebuilding a spiritual tower of Babel in defiance of the living God. God confused our language long ago and dispersed humanity in order to prevent universal apostasy and His judgment for the same once again, before His own timing concerning the same. BABYLON THE GREAT, works tirelessly today to bring this universal apostasy back to fruition in their satanically inspired unification of humanity in defiance of God's word and authority. So be it. Come Lord Jesus.

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9467
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jul 12, 2021 - 05:23:14 »
I do not limit all these things to the Church of Rome, BAYLON THE GREAT, but simply point her out as the Mother of harlots. To be sure many professed Protestant institutions have played and do increasingly play the role of her daughters, along with other denominations and religions. All of whom she is calling and gathering together under her banner in the unification of humanity in rebellion against God. Spiritually rebuilding a spiritual tower of Babel in defiance of the living God. God confused our language long ago and dispersed humanity in order to prevent universal apostasy and His judgment for the same once again, before His own timing concerning the same. BABYLON THE GREAT, works tirelessly today to bring this universal apostasy back to fruition in their satanically inspired unification of humanity in defiance of God's word and authority. So be it. Come Lord Jesus.
Again, very briefly~I will try to post later today, but for now, I'm short on time because of a big schedule ahead for me today.

My friend, the Church of Rome is NOT Mystery Babylon, she LIVES IN Babylon and is the most corrupt form of religion therein with the EOC very close to her, well, actually her little sister. Revelation 17 deal almost exclusively with the RELIGION in Babylon~the latter part of 17 into chapter 18 of Revelation deals with Babylon's commerce, entertainment, and ALL it has to offer those who will follow the beast. As a matter of truth, we are NOW living in the very end time of Babylon's existence. If one desires to keep his/her job they MUST either keep silent concerning their views, and NOT speak against the people that is deceived by Mystery Babylon, or GO ALONG with the sin and darkness that marks and rules Mystery Babylon just before HER FALL! Mystery Babylon is THIS WORLD SYSTEM WHERE GOD IS TOTALLY REMOVED FROM IT and the saints are put to death (silence) with NO voice to speak against her and her evil ways.

Later....RB

Online Wycliffes_Shillelagh

  • Down with pants! Up with kilts!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 13749
  • Manna: 367
  • Gender: Male
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #9 on: Wed Jul 14, 2021 - 18:40:22 »
Daniel's prophecy concerning the "Abomination of Desolation"~according to Jesus Christ WAS YET IN THE FUTURE, even in the little season of Revelation 20! So, I'll go with Christ and his interpretation of Daniel's prophecy for us, while you keep hollering into the air.
Prophesies can have more than one fulfillment.  At the very least, this one did, being fulfilled in Daniel's day and again in just after the New Testament period.

Jarrod

Offline Choir Loft

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 504
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • REPENT - the hour of judgment is upon us
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #10 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 07:52:39 »
Amo,  briefly I will say this~By definition, the Abomination of Desolation is something abhorrent to God that will bring to ruin or devastation. And when we search the Bible diligently, comparing scripture with scripture (the correct form in Biblical hermeneutics), we find that in almost all instances where the pertinent where the word abomination is found, it is dealing in some way with God's people falling away to serve the gods of the heathen nations~just as you said above. In other words, it clearly illustrates apostasy and spiritual idolatry of the Lord's profess people in turning away from Him to serve false gods. It is in this context of the word that we find that the abominable and disgusting thing that God hates, is His people forsaking Him to follow their own depraved heart be it in practical godliness, or doctrine. It is this abomination that will leave their house in ruins or desolated. Just as it happened to the OT church, SO WILL it happen again to the Gentiles churches. The holy scriptures are replete with examples of this abomination~some of which you provided already, yet not any from the NT which we shall consider as we move forward.

You LIMIT most this fallen away to the Catholic Church, and we do not, yet believe she the biggest whore in Mystery Babylon, but she's not by herself, just about ALL have followed her ways and shall be judged along with her. Actually, our Lord said if he had not shortened those days NO FLESH would have been saved~that is: in a practical sense of not being given over to the many abominations that shall fill the church of the latter-day just before his coming.

Later....RB

You persist in your self-defined error.   The prophet Daniel and the corresponding unfolding of history tell the student of each that the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION is not some vague term.  It has to do directly with desecration of the TEMPLE and the persecution of the Jewish people.

Typical half-educated Christians tend to vomit forth descriptions and definitions of their own imaginations, using bits and pieces of scripture to validate their fantasies.   The TRUTH is as I stated in an earlier post, which no one seems to have reviewed except as something to scoff at.

The attitude of such Christians is systemic anti-Semitism.  They hate and deny anything that might involve acceptance of doctrine or historic importance.  Most doctrine is directly connected to object lessons of the Tanakh or history itself, yet they continue to deny the impact of Jewish culture and history on the issues they pretend to examine.

"A scoffer seeks wisdom in vain."" - Proverbs 14:6

Is it in vain the wise man tries to educate?

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Offline Choir Loft

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 504
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • REPENT - the hour of judgment is upon us
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #11 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 08:10:09 »
Daniel's prophecy concerning the "Abomination of Desolation"~according to Jesus Christ WAS YET IN THE FUTURE, even in the little season of Revelation 20! So, I'll go with Christ and his interpretation of Daniel's prophecy for us, while you keep hollering into the air.

You aren't even close to Jesus' intended use of Daniel's prophecy of the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION.  Apparently when I address you I am indeed speaking into the air, for the birds above have more understanding.

Jesus is a JEW.  When He spoke He directed His remarks at Jewish listeners.  If we are to properly understand His meaning and intent we are obligated to understand Jewish culture, Jewish history and Jewish preferences as to what they accepted and what they didn't.  Gentiles who are over inflated in their own importance generally reject Jewish tradition and LAW so as to substitute their own bogus form of religion.

Daniel specifically referred to the desecration of the TEMPLE in Jerusalem as the abomination of desolation.  Why?  Because the TEMPLE was the center of the universe as far as Judaism was concerned.  He was with the Jewish captives in Babylon at the time.  You fail to recognize this fact of scripture and history.  Without such recognition you cannot approach a correct interpretation of the phrase.   Neither can most gentile Christians who are prideful of their own culture and limited knowledge.

Again - the temple was desecrated by the Greeks who entered it and sacrificed swine.   It was desecrated a third time by the Romans in 70 AD when they destroyed it.

When Jesus quoted Daniel's prophecy He and His audience were well aware of the reference to two past abominations of desolation.  Some of His audience understood His references to the future inasmuch as they despised the Roman occupation.  Gentiles don't understand because they hate Jews and anything that smells of Jewish culture or history.  Do you?  If not, then pay attention to Jewish history and you will see an appropriate interpretation unfold before your eyes and mind.

I outlined Tisha B'Av in a previous post and mentioned all the abominations done unto the Jews in the centuries that followed the fall of the 2nd Temple.  Did any of that make an impression on your mind?  Probably not, because your pride and your rejection of Jews won't allow it. 

The TRUE interpretation of Daniel's "abomination of desolation", as proven by history and scripture refers to persecution of the Jewish people and attacks against the sovereign State of Israel.  May God grant those times of abomination are at an end. 

There is good reason to suppose they are indeed ended - despite the popular acceptance of End Times prophecy dictated by RCC Futurism and Darby's Dispensationalism as well as the RCC dogma of Replacement Theology. 

For proof of Christian hatred of Jews I mention the dogma of Tribulation. It is a hope of Christians that a second holocaust - murder of innocent Jews - will take place so as to encourage them to join a church.  Of such was the basis for Nazi persecution (a Christian nation, btw) of Jews.  It continues to be the basis of demonic hope of Christians today. 

Is there no shame or is it all prideful ignorance?  I submit it is the latter, for there are few who will escape such a great deception.

Yes, this is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: “Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have. - Jeremiah 29:8

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...   
« Last Edit: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 08:19:50 by Choir Loft »

Offline Amo

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5829
  • Manna: 55
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #12 on: Sun Jul 18, 2021 - 21:33:12 »
Again, very briefly~I will try to post later today, but for now, I'm short on time because of a big schedule ahead for me today.

My friend, the Church of Rome is NOT Mystery Babylon, she LIVES IN Babylon and is the most corrupt form of religion therein with the EOC very close to her, well, actually her little sister. Revelation 17 deal almost exclusively with the RELIGION in Babylon~the latter part of 17 into chapter 18 of Revelation deals with Babylon's commerce, entertainment, and ALL it has to offer those who will follow the beast. As a matter of truth, we are NOW living in the very end time of Babylon's existence. If one desires to keep his/her job they MUST either keep silent concerning their views, and NOT speak against the people that is deceived by Mystery Babylon, or GO ALONG with the sin and darkness that marks and rules Mystery Babylon just before HER FALL! Mystery Babylon is THIS WORLD SYSTEM WHERE GOD IS TOTALLY REMOVED FROM IT and the saints are put to death (silence) with NO voice to speak against her and her evil ways.

Later....RB

No, Mystery Babylon is a woman, a whore. She is a church that is fallen. She stands in contrast to the true church which is also depicted as a women, a chaste virgin. She is lead by that man of sin who set himself up in the temple of God shewing himself that he is God. God's temple on this earth is His church during this new covenant era. Babylon is that apostate fallen church whose cup is filled with the abominations of this earth, which includes the religions, politics, sciences, commerce, entertainment, media, and what have you of this world. All of which the Church of Rome is actively involved in and with in her fornicating relations with all of the same. You simply are ignorant of, ignore, or deny her documented relations with all of the same, and her written instructions to all of the same. Not to mention the media coverage and news coverage of all the meetings she has with all of the peoples involved with all of the same. Mystery Babylon is not this world, though her final acts do encompass all of this world, she is a women fallen from grace. By abandoning her original relation with and to God, in favor of relations with the powers and abominations that be of this world. This in the service of the chosen prince in and of this world, the evil one himself.
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 18, 2021 - 21:36:33 by Amo »

Offline RB

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 9467
  • Manna: 415
  • Gender: Male
  • Acts 24:16
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #13 on: Mon Jul 19, 2021 - 06:10:49 »
No, Mystery Babylon is a woman, a whore.
Amo, I going to answer Choir Loft Reply #10 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 07:52:39, since he answered your post from me~and I have a few things to say to him, more than to you please respond if you desire to do so.
Quote from: Choir Loft Reply #10 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 07:52:39
You persist in your self-defined error.
Sir, I will give you every opportunity to prove as you think, if you will stay with me.
Quote from: Choir Loft Reply #10 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 07:52:39
The prophet Daniel and the corresponding unfolding of history tell the student of each that the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION is not some vague term. 
We do not need history to interpret Daniel's dark saying~ we have Christ, Paul, and John interpreting Daniel for us~what more do we need?

I can assure you that it was very vague (and still is for most) until Jesus' Olivet Discourse recorded for us in Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21 and from there Paul added to it, and John in the Revelation of Jesus Christ capped it off.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 24:16~"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
Very simple~who ever reads Daniel let him understand base upon what I'm NOW saying! The first time EVER those dark sayings of Daniel could even begin to be understood. As we work through the Olivet Discourse and comparing other scriptures will one EVER understand Daniel's words. The scriptures are their own interpreter if one has eyes to see and ears to hear, which few do~yet, that's why God gave gifts unto men to help others to see and understand.
Quote from: Choir Loft Reply #11 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 08:10:09
Jesus is a JEW.  When He spoke He directed His remarks at Jewish listeners.
Really, Another one of the Jewish fables that you have come to embrace. Closing his Olivet Discourse according to Mark's account Jesus said:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Mark 13:37~“And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.”
Closing his Olivet Discourse according to Luke's account Jesus said:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Luke 21:34-36~"And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Pretty sure I know who has less knowledge than the fowls of the air, and others reading this know as well.
Quote from: Choir Loft Reply #11 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 08:10:09
If we are to properly understand His meaning and intent we are obligated to understand Jewish culture, Jewish history and Jewish preferences as to what they accepted and what they didn't. 
Another Jewish fable instead of pure truths from God's word.
Quote
Gentiles who are overinflated in their own importance generally reject Jewish tradition and LAW so as to substitute their own bogus form of religion.
Sir, you are constantly putting down Christians who are not Jews by nature and harshly and unmerciful judging them because we reject all of the Jewish fables and follow Jewish apostles who themselves warred against the same (Jewish fables). Are you a Christian? A Simple yes or no would be helpful.
Quote from: Choir Loft Reply Reply #11 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 08:10:09
Daniel specifically referred to the desecration of the TEMPLE in Jerusalem as the abomination of desolation.  Why?  Because the TEMPLE was the center of the universe as far as Judaism was concerned.  He was with the Jewish captives in Babylon at the time.  You fail to recognize this fact of scripture and history.   
NOT According to Jesus in Matthew 24; Mark 13; and Luke 21.

The temple was to OT Jew just as you said, but that means nothing as far as understanding Daniel per Christ in Matthew 24.

I do not fail to recognize where Daniel was when he penned the book of Daniel for he tells us so in his book, so I would never reject that truth, but it means nothing as far as understanding his words concerning Abomination that maketh desolate. Jesus gives us the meaning of this phrase.
Quote from: Choir Loft Reply #11 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 08:10:09
Without such recognition you cannot approach a correct interpretation of the phrase.
Oh, sir, you are so wrong~THE NEW TESTAMENT gives us all the light we need to understand just what the abomination of desolation means~our Jewish brethren will interpret it for us.
Quote from: Choir Loft Reply #11 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 08:10:09
Neither can most gentile Christians who are prideful of their own culture and limited knowledge.
So wrong! We have nothing to glory in for WE KNOW very well our past history before mercy was shown to us~and as far as limited knowledge, we now have the MIND OF CHRIST and know the truth, not absolutely, but overall, and even in this we know nothing as we ought to know but what we do know we lift our hands and hearts unto heaven and give thanks to God for our Lord Jesus Christ imparting some precious truths to us.  We know much more than a natural Jew, or a natural Gentile without Christ, a world of knowledge more.
Quote from: Paul said it best
1st Corinthians 4:3-5~But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God."
I said enough to you for now, but will add one more thing:
Quote from: Choir Loft Reply #11 on: Thu Jul 15, 2021 - 08:10:09
For proof of Christian hatred of Jews I mention the dogma of Tribulation. It is a hope of Christians that a second holocaust - murder of innocent Jews - will take place so as to encourage them to join a church.  Of such was the basis for Nazi persecution (a Christian nation, btw) of Jews.  It continues to be the basis of demonic hope of Christians today.
Christian DO NOT HATE anyone, especially so a Jew, JUST because he is a Jew~that is a lie. We do not hope for a second holocaust~again, you are spreading LIES after LIES. Again, if you are not a Christian, then what are you? You're on a CHRISTAIN FORUM spreading lies, about Christians, this needs to stop.
« Last Edit: Mon Jul 19, 2021 - 06:22:32 by RB »

Offline Choir Loft

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 504
  • Manna: 6
  • Gender: Male
  • REPENT - the hour of judgment is upon us
Re: What is the Abomination of Desolation?
« Reply #14 on: Fri Jul 23, 2021 - 10:32:03 »
Very simple~who ever reads Daniel let him understand base upon what I'm NOW saying! The first time EVER those dark sayings of Daniel could even begin to be understood. As we work through the Olivet Discourse and comparing other scriptures will one EVER understand Daniel's words. The scriptures are their own interpreter if one has eyes to see and ears to hear, which few do~yet, that's why God gave gifts unto men to help others to see and understand.

Understand what YOU say/write?  Who are you?

History records with pinpoint accuracy those events that underlined Tisha B'Av.  Mostly they were carried out by gentiles AGAINST Jews as you do today.  Is it a coincidence that so many horrors were perpetrated upon Jews and Israel - even those predicted by Daniel and Jesus?  It isn't.

Unfortunately there are very many self-important gentiles that promote hatred of Jews via their lies and innuendo as they deny history itself as well as the clear and obvious interpretation of God's honest word. 

The first step to converting truth into lies is to obfuscate the meaning of words, which has been done by many plastic Christians.  Not a few of them have written on these pages.

They shall have their reward, which will be to dwell in the darkness of their own delusion for the rest of their natural lives.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

     
anything