What is the apostasy before the rapture?

[Mavs2012]

again i agree with linker.....


the beast is also a kingdom ..... 1st beast is a kingdom and the 2nd beast is also a kingdom.....

imo....the first beast is the revived grecian empire...when the assyian conquers egypt turkey and greece....and the broken up empire of alexander is revived.....

the remainder of the 10 future kingdoms 6 in total submit to the antichrist....

his kingdom will consist of the revived grecian empire.....which is one of the 5 mountains that have fallen in johns day.....this is the head that was wounded to death but will be revived when abbadon is loosed out of the bottomless pit and helps him conquer the 10 kingdoms.....

the 2nd beast is Israel.....2 horns represent the north and south kingdom of Israel....that is, israel and Judah... the two sticks joined.....

for the antichrist will then take over Israel and make it his kingdom....for he will be received as lord God or YHWH.....the false prophet will be a false Elijah.... even calling down fire as EliJah did in the past to convince Israel to recieve her Savior and King, the one and only God of Israel....but he is a false messiah.....a strong delution from the lord.....

he sets up a Golem  the abomination of desolation in ezekiels temple......ezekiels temple was built before he will appear... the temple was built during mystery babylons deception of a false messiah and false millenium.....then the great tribulation begins....then the return of Jesus.....

[inthenow]

Arnold Murray's teaching is false

Satan is not the son of perdition, his angelic beast from the abyss is his "antichrist" who is the "son of perdition" [Revelation 9:11; 11:2; 13:1-4; 17:8-14]

.... and Satan will never pretend to be Jesus Christ, but will blaspheme Him openly through this beast

"Antichrist" means one who is "against" Jesus Christ .... not "in place of"

   

satan is the beast(2nd),he is also the son of perdition.....he is also the antichrist

satan gives power to the beast and false prophet.
The beast and false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire before the millinium.
satan is bound a thousand years, released a little while, then thrown into the LOF where the beast and false prophet were thrown a thousand years earlier.
Need scripture?

[inthenow]

Imagine such an one possessing all the powers of Satan who has done such a total deception on humanity over the millennia... coming back from the dead (Revelation 13:1-4) after 2000 years in death... and being able to prove it scientifically. DNA, or blood content, radiocarbon dating...

Don't you think just about everyone would believe whatever he has to say?

who are you refering to?

judas?. just a guess!

Good guess.

No other human being in scripture is said to be directly possessed by Satan other than Judas (Luke 22:3 / John 13:27).
When he died he went to "his place" some translations say "his own place." (Acts 1:25)

The son of perdition is used only twice (John 17:12 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3)

Here's the problem,the son of perdition,is satan himself,not someone possesed by him....satan comes pretending to be Christ,live and in person....

Who is perdition that satan is the son of?
satan is perdition - destruction, he entered judas and Christ called judas the son of perdition.

[Geezer]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (KJV)
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul wrote 2 Thess in 52AD. The falling away was the Jewish Christians who were abandoning their faith in order to fight against the Romans along with the Jews. Their sense of patriotic duty to them was more important as the survival of their nation was once again in extreme peril. This happened during the tenure of Florus the Roman governor who did everything possible to start a war with the Jews by his unjust and abusive actions against the Jews. This happened just before the beginning of the war with the Romans, which started in 66AD.

And so this prophesy came to pass in just 14 years not 2,000.

Larry

[raggthyme]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (KJV)
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul wrote 2 Thess in 52AD. The falling away was the Jewish Christians who were abandoning their faith in order to fight against the Romans along with the Jews. Their sense of patriotic duty to them was more important as the survival of their nation was once again in extreme peril. This happened during the tenure of Florus the Roman governor who did everything possible to start a war with the Jews by his unjust and abusive actions against the Jews. This happened just before the beginning of the war with the Romans, which started in 66AD.

And so this prophesy came to pass in just 14 years not 2,000.

Larry

manna for Larry!

[Mavs2012]

"the 2nd beast is Israel.....2 horns represent the north and south kingdom of Israel....that is, israel and Judah... the two sticks joined"


The second beast of Revelation is also a fallen angelic just like the first beast .... and like Satan who is also a fallen angel

This second beast [the false prophet] is not Israel

This fallen angelic will manifest in two human religious clerics who will lead the cult of the first beast .... just as the first beast will manifest in the human little horn of Daniel's visions

..... and both beasts will be the virulent enemies of Israel during the coming 70th week decreed for Israel [same as the tribulation period]

I believe the prophetic scriptures identify the kingdom of the first beast as the populations surrounding Israel [those round about] .... the Muslims of the Middle East [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 36; 38; Micah 5:5-6]


These two beast of Satan's contrivance are not kingdomsand neither is the human little horn of Daniel's visions  

well thats the first time i disagree with you linker.....jesus said israel will recieve another who will come in his own name....another being a messiah ....not jesus but another....israel awaits the coming of the messiah ....and elijah will go before him.....jesus said to be not decieve when they will say "he is in the desert or secret chamber".....do not go after him....

israel will produce a false messiah....and jesus wants those who believe on him to wait for him to fulfill the prophecies ....those that wait for jesus will not stumble....if anyone seeks another ....they will stumble and fall....even paul says to be not decieve in any way that the lord has come....but a falling away first....the falling away will be a false messiah and a false millenium created by babylon.....then the beast and false prophet will come...then the return of Jesus

do not expect a man for the messiah ....expect a god ...for jesus will come as a god in power.....for all will see him as he is describe in revelation....Rev 1:7-8



 7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,

[JohnDB70X7]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (KJV)
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul wrote 2 Thess in 52AD. The falling away was the Jewish Christians who were abandoning their faith in order to fight against the Romans along with the Jews. Their sense of patriotic duty to them was more important as the survival of their nation was once again in extreme peril. This happened during the tenure of Florus the Roman governor who did everything possible to start a war with the Jews by his unjust and abusive actions against the Jews. This happened just before the beginning of the war with the Romans, which started in 66AD.

And so this prophesy came to pass in just 14 years not 2,000.

Larry

This sounds like another Preterist fairy tale...

[JohnDB70X7]

Can individual preterist posts be sent to a "catch all" thread in the Preterism sub forum? the thread here was intended for futurists to post. I know cause I was the one that done it... 

[Mavs2012]

"jesus said israel will recieve another who will come in his own name"


John
5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

5:41 I receive not honour from men.

5:42 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.

5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me.

5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?


Israel will not produce a "false messiah" "antichrist" .... ["anti" means "against" Jesus Christ .... not "in place of"]

When Jesus said that if another teacher [rabbi] comes in his own name you will believe him .... he was speaking to His opposition of the religious Pharisees of the time

He came in the name of the living God, but was rejected .... the Pharisaical teachers were received and believed by Israel

Jesus was not speaking about the future "anti-christ"

The little horn of Daniel's visions will be the human manifestation of Satan's beast and this one will come from the northern Levant in the Middle East .... not Israel

This one is called the "Assyrian" in prophetic scripture [the symbol of Israel's northern enemy] [Joel 2:20; Micah 5]

He will rise out of the Muslim populations [Assyrians, Babylonians, Medes, Persians, Turks, Syrians, Egyptians] of the Middle East and confederate the region against Israel .... this one will be Israel's virulent enemy and Israel will not accept him as a "false messiah"

Satan's beast in the little horn will attack, invade, and occupy Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount .... will kill a multitude of Israelites, will scatter the balance, and will grandstand in the temple of his "god" which is on the temple mount today [Jeremiah 30:8; Daniel 7:25; Matthew 24:15-28; Luke 21:20-36; 2Thessalonians 2:3-4; Revelation 11:2-13; 13:1-4] [The Thessalonians were concerned that they had missed the Lord's harpazo action to make them immortal, but were told that they had not because the day of the Lord had not yet come .... the same future period in which the little horn will rise and gain the following of the transgressors of the time of the end]

He will not regard the God of his human ancestry [the God of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Ishmael, and Esau]: but he will honor Satan openly .... a "god" which his rebellious fathers of Ishmael and Esau knew not .... these did not know that they were worshiping the devil [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 9:26-27 [the other prince]; 11:36-45; 12:7; Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-14]

Satan is the perpetrator of all false "god's" [who do not exist in the first place] and the Muslims of the Middle East worship the same moon "god" [the "god" of the ancient Assyrians and Babylonians] called "Allah" who is just another cover for Satan

The human little horn of Satan's beast will not be an Israelite, but the "Assyrian" of Micah 5 and Israel's arch enemy during the time of "Jacob's trouble" [Jeremiah 30; 30:8]

Those of his Middle Eastern confederacy will be the transgressors of Daniel 8:23 and these are the same involved in the apostasy [falling away] spoken of in 2Thessalonians 2:3 [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 36:1-7; 38:3-7]

Satan is the "Gog" of Ezekiel 38:39 [Satan is also the "Gog" of Revelation 20:8 who when released from the abyss will cause another human rebellion against the Lord in Israel at the end of His coming millennial kingdom upon the earth]

The apostasy of the Islamic transgressors is building today and these will be ready to receive their satanic "god" during the coming 70th week decreed for Israel .... but just before the beginning of this period the Lord will make the dead in Christ and believers living at the time immortal [1Corinthians 15:22-23; 15:51-58; 1Thessalonians 4: 13-18; 5:1-9; 2Thessalonians 2:1; Revelation 3:10; 18:4]

  

      

Jesus was more than just a rabbi...he is the promised messiah that Israel rejected

yes anti Christ means against Christ...do you not think if Israel accepts another who comes in his own name....is against Christ teachings?...the will of the father is for Israel to received the true messiah...to accept another is anti Christ...for it will be a lie....when the true messiah is Jesus.....

Jesus said a falling away from the faith comes....falling away from the faith that Jesus is the messiah......Allah is not another name for Satan....it comes from the aramic word allahha which simply means god....Jesus did teach of coming false Christ....Christ means anointed another word in Greek for messiah....when his disciples ask about the end he told them...to be not deceive when case messiahs shall come....and when they say behold he is in the desert or secret chamber do not go after them....the whole point to Jesus message is to wait for his return..and do not follow a man..for when Jesus returns...he will come as god not as a man...rev 1:14-18

[larry2]

Yes anti Christ means against Christ...do you not think if Israel accepts another who comes in his own name....is against Christ teachings?...the will of the father is for Israel to received the true messiah...to accept another is anti Christ...for it will be a lie....when the true messiah is Jesus.....

Although definitely against Christ, Strong's also gives the following synonym meaning a false Christ, a pretended Messiah, who sets himself up instead of Christ, proclaiming that he is Christ.

[Mavs2012]

Yes anti Christ means against Christ...do you not think if Israel accepts another who comes in his own name....is against Christ teachings?...the will of the father is for Israel to received the true messiah...to accept another is anti Christ...for it will be a lie....when the true messiah is Jesus.....

Although definitely against Christ, Strong's also gives the following synonym meaning a false Christ, a pretended Messiah, who sets himself up instead of Christ, proclaiming that he is Christ.

[Mavs2012]

If your looking for the antichrist to be a muslim...you just might get it....for many push this thought....but then what happens after?.........

look.... the world is being set up....1st an islamic enemy of isreal comes...then the messiah is suppose to come....then the millenium....then a temple is built......this is all a set up...a deception created by mysyery babylon...a fallen away has happened...with a false messiah in israel and a one world government....this will last a short space

because of this deception ....god will send the assyrian and false prophet to destroy the deception create by mystery babylon......

[Mavs2012]

who teaches?.....most of the churches in america teach a basic idea of what i present...a lot of what i believe are my own ideas of the interpretations of scriptures....im interested where you may have heard similar ideas....i would be happy to share and answer any questions you may have .....

the scriptures do identify the anti christ....he is an assyrian....and a king of the north.....'a beast' is prophetic language for a kingdom...and the 'the prince' of the kingdom refers to an angel such as the 'prince of grecia' who hindered gabriel when he came to daniel....so the future beast is a man, a fallen angel and a kingdom....

when i say what happens after...i mean many teach  and  point to a future 'muslim' invader...because they want us to believe islam is the enemy ...that islam will fulfill the antichrist prophecies....but its a man made lie........my point is that they want us to focus on a muslim....why?....the real motive is to usher in a false messiah and false millenium......

now to question your beliefs.....

1 why does jesus bring wrath upon unbelievers?...what justifys him?....what are the sins committed in the last days?
2 only 2 groups are aware of jesus presence?.....i disagree.... many tribulation saints are killed of all tribes and nations ....not just jews
3 why is antichrist sent to the world?...i mean why does God say that he will send a strong delution?...why would god send a strong delution to decieve so that they will believe a lie....who are the ones who believe this lie?

your beliefs are close to mine.... i just clarify the different events a little more according to scripture........

[Mavs2012]

Ok...well i disagree...but at least i know where you stand..peace

[Talking Donkey]

The apostasy is now called "The Dark Ages".

Peace