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Reply #35 by seekingHiswisdom

THE ANTI-CHRIST HAS BEEN REVEALED.

All that is needed to identify the man is knowledge of history and correct Biblical interpretation.

The anti-Christ of Revelation 13 is the Pope, the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic church.

The name of the anti-Christ is also a number.

Traditional language of the Roman Catholic church is Latin.   Latin letters and also be transliterated as numbers.  Therefore the letters of the name of Pope John Paul II can be tallied as six hundred sixty-six.
(see chart of letters at:  http://remnantofgod.org/666.htm)

Revelation 13 states that a beast will arise out of the sea.

The context of the Bible ALWAYS represents a beast as a system, organization or nation.   Some scholars refer to it as a 'force' or 'trend'.
The beast is NOT a man.  It is a religious system.  See Revelation for a description of this parasitic religion - also described as the whore of Babylon.
 
Revelation 17 defines the sea as people or a general population of people.   Therefore the correct interpretation of Revelation 13 describes a religious system arising out of a population of people.
The small horn that exalts itself and which arises out of the beast is a religious leader that arises out of the religious system.

The small horn, which arises out of the beastly organization, exalts itself against God. 

The man, or leader, is said to commit blaspheme.  Biblical definition of blaspheme is to claim to be God.  Jesus was hated and persecuted by Jewish priests of His day because He (Jesus) claimed to be God.  The priests accused Jesus of blaspheme.  Therefore, when the Bible says the anti-Christ would commit blaspheme it tells us this religious leader would claim to be God on earth.  The quote that follows is an established statement of the Catholic church.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." - Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”

Revelation 13 states that the anti-Christ will suffer a fatal head wound which will later be healed.

In the year 1798 the military forces of Napoleon Bonaparte arrested Pope Pius VI and seized his property in Rome.  The Pope was imprisoned where he later died.  This is the fatal head wound.
In February of 1929, Italian dictator Benito Mussolini established the Vatican and returned the Pope to his authority.   Called the Lateran Treaty, 110 acres of land were gifted to the church so as to establish the authority and real estate of the Holy See.  The fatal head wound was healed.

Revelation also states that the anti-Christ would "wear out the saints" by means of persecution and murder.  

It is an historic fact that the church has been the greatest persecutor of Jews and saints of Christ in history.   Over the length of history it has been estimated that the Catholic church has been directly or indirectly responsible for over fifty million deaths due to religious persecution.  No Muslim leader or Communist nation can claim such an effusion of blood.

Let the facts speak for themselves.  If you seek the truth about anti-Christ, look no further than your history books, your newspaper and your Bible. 

There is a great deal more authentication provided in the Bible.  I recommend a thorough study of scripture and an interpretation based on the Bible, not popular myth and conjecture.

You won't find truth on television.  Even the commercials lie.  Not for nothing is it called show bu$iness.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....

   The anti-Christ of Revelation 13 is the Pope, the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic church.     

That is my belief and understanding.

But

         Therefore the letters of the name of Pope John Paul II can be tallied as six hundred sixty-six.   

If it is the person who ascends as Pope, the count should be based on his true, given, birth name.
 because in different languages his name as Pope would be would be spelled differently.

Example: John Paul in Latin is Johannes Paulus , putting the counting of the number of
his name away from 666

or, look at  Pope Frankie's birth name of  Jorge Mario Bergoglio

After all Francis in another language is... Latin: Franciscus,
Which would alter the number of his name.

As to the blaspheme end of things:

You first need to delve into the meaning of the word.  You claim only 1b below.While it is true, it is not total.

Mirriam Webster says

Definition of blasphemy
1a: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God
accused of blasphemy
b: the act of claiming the attributes of a deity
for a mere man to suggest that he was … divine could only be viewed … as blasphemy
— John Bright †1889

2: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

I used 1@ in my reply # 9 above when Frankie says

A. Finds it dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus.

" There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations."

2. Accepts a religious group who deny who Jesus actually was/is and count them worthy to enter into heaven.

"The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Cambridge dictionary

blaspheme
verb [ I or T ]
UK  /ˌblæsˈfiːm/ US  /ˌblæsˈfiːm/
 
to use offensive words or make statements that show no respect for God or religion


I will say you are on the right track however, you need further study on the subject and as you cautioned me before, make sure you provide biblical verses to shore up your facts and not just the projected thought of your self or some article you may be quoting. Especially in light of your suggestion to us to read and study for ourselves.

After all. We might need your help

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Reply #36 by robycop3 Horse Feathers.

  The current pope isn'y popular enough to be a world ruler. While the AC will be one man, it won't be a pope. He will come outta "nowhere", as Napoleon & Hitler did.

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Reply #37 by seekingHiswisdom

Horse Feathers.

  The current pope isn'y popular enough to be a world ruler. While the AC will be one man, it won't be a pope. He will come outta "nowhere", as Napoleon & Hitler did.

Napoleon did not sit on 7 hills or mountains or rise out of them. Nor did Hitler.

Revelation 17:9 King James Version (KJV)

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Catholic Online Bible

9 'This calls for shrewdness. The seven heads are the seven hills, on which the woman is sitting.

Greek~ English Interlinear

9. ὧδε       ὁ     νοῦς      ὁ            ἔχων     σοφίαν         αἱ        ἑπτὰ     κεφαλαὶ    ὄρη            εἰσίν    ἑπτὰ     ὅπου
   Here is  the   mind,  the one    having   wisdom.       The     seven     heads   mountains      are    seven   where

     ἡ       γυνὴ      κάθηται     ἐπ'     αὐτῶν
    the    woman      sits         on      them,

Church, as a collective term has always been referred to as she. Or in the feminine.

This term is most often used among Roman Catholics as Holy Mother Church. The Church is considered to be a mother to her members because she is the Bride of Christ, and all other churches have had their origin or derived from her.

Interesting article about Mother Church in WIKI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_church

Fact: Rome sits upon 7 hills ....

The woman of Rev 17:9 certainly can be thought of as "Mother Church". Very appropriately so.

Why are you so afraid to believe what is obvious to those who study Revelation?

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Reply #38 by robycop3   I study Rev myself, likely more-closely than you, but I also study the other Scriptures pertaining to eschatology. As I said recently, Daniel, Paul, & Rev all point to ONE MAN, not a whole line of them.

  The woman sits on the beast & tries to control it, but the beast turns on her with fire, so says Rev. 17.

  Yes, there have been antichrists ever since Christ was here, but "the" penultimate AC (Satan is the ultimate AC) hasn't come yet.

  He will have a sidekick, the false prophet, and no pope has a deputy.

  besides, this man will be against God, & anything/anyone else who is worshipped as a god. He will declare himself to be God. No pope has done that.

  Seems the RCC will help him attain power, as it did Hitler, but he will turn on it as Hitler did - only this man will make Hitler seem as a naughty toddler in comparison.

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Reply #39 by RB

I study Rev myself, likely more-closely than you, but I also study the other Scriptures pertaining to eschatology.

So what? Truly what weight does that carry if one just repeats what others have preached before them. I'm speaking of ALL OF US, not just you and anyone who sees it differently than I do.  I have given myself to search these very truths out in all sincerity for almost fifty years. 3 Resurrection can account for that since he knows me personally. I started out as he did being schooled by some of the most powerful premillennialists of days gone by~and as a young believer held that position for about four to six years until I knew that it had holes in that so-called "fortress of faith" that left me very vulnerable to those who had the truth, so I sought the Lord and learned to trust only in his testimony and not in man's beliefs that many just blindly follow.  I learned that the SCRIPTURES will interpret THEMSELVES if we would TRUST THEM TO DO SO.

As I said recently, Daniel, Paul, & Rev all point to ONE MAN, not a whole line of them.

"The antichrist" as singular? ...No. A antichrist? Most certainly. For God's authoritative word declares that there are many antichrists.

The woman sits on the beast & tries to control it, but the beast turns on her with fire, so says Rev. 17.

The woman is NOT a single person, but represents ALL of the false religions of Mysterty Babylon which IS this world in which we live~See and understand Isaiah 13 the beginning of OT scriptures that will UNFOLD the Mystery of Babylon as God testifies of the truth concerning this mystery with all of its false cults and its commerce and entertainments, etc.

but the beast turns on her with fire, so says Rev. 17.

Sir, I AGREE that the EIGHTH king that should come WILL destroy the RELIGIOUS side of Mystery Babylon just before the coming of Jesus Christ~for they WILL look toward religion as the CAUSE of all of the world's problem and a hindrance to their FUTURE PEACE, and when they say PEACE and SAFETY, THEN sudden destruction will come upon the wicked, per Paul:

1st Thessalonians 5:1-5~ "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

One of the three camps in this thread is NOT in darkness the other two are. I'm very convinced that my "Amill idealist" is the truth of the word of God. I reject Preteristism, the historic position, (which is nothing more than a half-baked preterist) Premillennialism~but I only see three positions presented in this thread (well, 3 Resurrection is "mostly" Preteristism, sightly different).

Yes, there have been antichrists ever since Christ was here, but "the" penultimate AC (Satan is the ultimate AC) hasn't come yet.

And never will, ONLY in the theology of a deceived premillennialist~even though could be a child of God saying such things.

  He will have a sidekick, the false prophet, and no pope has a deputy.

The pope, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Jim Bakker and ten thousand MORE are a antichrist, which are the false prophets OF the beast. The Pope is NO MORE a antichrist than those that I just mentioned~ he's just the MOST POPULAR among them with the most followers because his religion is much easier to live as the world lives than the others! 

  besides, this man will be against God, & anything/anyone else who is worshipped as a god. He will declare himself to be God. No pope has done that.

Maybe you have study this subject, but sir you still have a ways to go! All of the false prophets past, present, and future, are against Christ in their doctrines, etc.~they exalt THEIR WORDS above the word of God, if you believe otherwise, then you have not taught the truth to the degree that it should be preached.

No pope has done that.

That pimp is the king of all false prophets.

Seems the RCC will help him attain power

Where sir have you been the last 1700 hundred years of Mystery Babylon's history? That whore is the biggest in the religion of Mystery Babylon~even to the envy of her little sister EOC!

but he will turn on it as Hitler did - only this man will make Hitler seem as a naughty toddler in comparison.

Personal opinions that have no scriptures to support that theory! FALSE RELIGION IS antichrist that should come in greater strength than ever in the history of Mystery Babylon!

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Reply #40 by TheWordIsOne greeting
The POPE, yes he this an Ant-Christ, like many others,  before him, but is not thee Ant-Christ, the POPE which Paul in 2 Thessalonians and Daniel 7:25

2 Thessalonians 2:5-8 (KJV) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let until he is taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: And then shall that Wicked be revealed with the spirit of his mouth
Note: meaning at last day revealed with the spirit of his mouth, Christ?

The POPE is indwelled by a false spirit, the spirit of error, he is a false prophet only, but he is not the Wicked one, he is yet to come For

He does not have an actual name per-se but a?
the mystery of iniquity doth already work, meaning working his way to be revealed.

Daniel 7:25 (KJV) And he shall speak great words against the Highest, and shall wear out the saints of the Highest, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

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Reply #41 by robycop3   "THE" antichrist won't be a pope. He will come outta 'nowhere', as Napoleon & Hitler did. Now, his sidekick, the false prophet, might be a pope or some other high RC official.

  Now, here's why the 'beast' won't be a pope - in Rev. 17, the harlot who tries to control the beast & his empire is unsuccessful & the beast turns on her. That harlot is the RCC, as history shows.

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Reply #42 by RB

"THE" antichrist won't be a pope. He will come outta 'nowhere', as Napoleon & Hitler did. Now, his sidekick, the false prophet, might be a pope or some other high RC official.

  Now, here's why the 'beast' won't be a pope - in Rev. 17, the harlot who tries to control the beast & his empire is unsuccessful & the beast turns on her. That harlot is the RCC, as history shows.

Sir, I made a post to you Reply #39 on: Fri Feb 07, 2020 - 05:07:43 ~which you have an opportunity to prove me wrong and your position biblical, which you chose not to do~so I must ask you.... "why"?

The pope and all before and after him have the antichrist spirit spoken of by Daniel, Christ, Paul, and John. There is NOT a future single person coming to be "The Antichrist"~that's heresy and it is being used to keep the majority of Christendom in total darkness (and unprepared) concerning much biblical truth concerning the last days of this world's history as prophesied by holy men God before us. 

Also, the harlot are "ALL" false cults with RCC and EOC as the oldest and largest along with the religion of Islam. The latter-day Charmastics with their prosperity gospel thieves are JUST AS guilty as any Pope that has ever lived since the days of the apostles. Jimmy Swaggart's followers are antichrist with their so-called revelation of the "message of the cross" ~something that he came up with in order to REINVENT him as one of the main figures in the religion of Mystery Babylon after his downfall into a terrible sin that was much worse than most are aware of. But it IS the same old lies that he has ever preached, he just repackeaged it and is working hard to make others believe that it's a NEW REVELATION given TO HIM for the world to hear!   Millions are following his lies and he is NOT alone but others are seeing the big $$$$$$$$$$$$ in this business of using the gospel (of course NOT the True Gospel, for only a few would heed that message!) as a source to get rich. 

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Reply #43 by lea The "antichrist" can NEVER be the Pope.

Sorry, but Catholics, if anything, are just as much "pro-Christ" as Protestants! And just as much orthodox!

You'll just have to consider who an antichrist was before AD70.  PS, John said there were many!

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Reply #44 by robycop3   Scripture doesn't mention "MEN of sin, sonS of perdition", etc. The antichrist will be ONE MAN, the most-evil human who ever lived, indwelt by Satan.
  And he will deny God, and anything/anyone else who's ever been worshipped, proclaiming himself to be God. Not very pope-like, is it?
  These facts are plainly in Scripture, so deny all you like.
  And, Lea, you are right! The AC will NOT be a pope !

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Reply #45 by RB

Quote

Scripture doesn't mention "MEN of sin, sonS of perdition", etc.

Again the man of sin is used as a "collective noun" just like the term man of God, refers to all who speak on the behalf of God. Just like the word "jury"~just as the Judge will ask: Has the jury reached its verdict? He is not speaking of one person but ALL who are on the jury. There are many more examples that can easily be given to prove this~but the CONTEXT proves it beyond any reasonable doubt.

2nd Thessalonians 2:10-12~And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

4WD can correct me if in error but I think it would be illogical to refer to the collective noun as a singular~so Paul used the words THEY and THEM in reference to the man of sin, etc.

The antichrist will be ONE MAN, the most-evil human who ever lived, indwelt by Satan.

You can never prove that with the scriptures. You have been listening to men that are under a strong delusion, that has led you down the same path. Come to the thread where we will be dealing in length on this very subject: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/jesus-warnings-prophecies/msg1055156499/?topicseen#msg1055156499 

And he will deny God, and anything/anyone else who's ever been worshipped, proclaiming himself to be God. Not very pope-like, is it?

Sir, this is so far from the truth, as a MATTER OF TRUTH, he will be just the opposite of that that you are describing!

Matthew 24:5~"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."

Those with the spirit of antichrist shall shall come in abundance in the latter days of the last days of this world and will be saying that Jesus IS the Christ, yet it is another Jesus, another spirit with another gospel that makes man co-partners with Christ in his salvation from sin and condemnation, which is only some of their many corruptions of God's word.

These facts are plainly in Scripture, so deny all you like.

Sir, I reject science fiction eschatology of the premillennial camp~I was taught those lies when I first came to Christ almost fifty years ago and believed them for three to four years as I was beginning to search the scriptures only to find out that I had been deceived by the same people that you have been deceived by~maybe by more powerful voices than you have had the opportunity to hear personally. So, I know your doctrine as well if not better than you do, which puts you in a big disadvantage with me I would think.   

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Reply #46 by 3 Resurrections Hi RB,

The emphasis you are putting on the words “THEY” and “THEM” in II Thess. 2 applies to the many of those who are DECEIVED.  These words do not apply to the SINGLE individual DECEIVER of “them”, who is the single “Man of Lawlessness” or “Man of Sin”.

You can’t have one without the other.  A deceiver acts upon the group of the deceived.

And interestingly, in the Luke 21:8 text (compared to Matt. 24:5), this deceiver does NOT say “I AM CHRIST”.  What the deceiver says is “I AM” (ego eimi).   The word “Christ” is italicized, meaning it is inserted into the Luke 21:8 text. 

“Ego eimi” or “I AM” is a title that God claimed for Himself, ever since the days of Moses, when He told Moses to tell his people that “I AM hath sent you”.  The deceiver would be using this same title, thereby claiming to be the express image of God Himself revealed on earth. 

Many of Paul’s contemporaries (the “they” and “them” you are emphasizing from II Thess 2) would believe this single Anti-christ’s  “I AM” claim of being God the Messiah.  The SINGLE Anti-christ “Man of Sin” would come out from the group of MANY who had that same spirit of anti-christ. 

After all, the Jews were earnestly expecting the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophesied “Messiah the prince” around the AD 30 date.  When they rejected Jesus as being that Messiah, they began to look for a substitute “I AM” in those days, as close to AD 30 as possible, in order to fulfill the time limits of Daniel 9:25’s prophecy about the Messiah’s appearance on earth.  Many did claim to be this fulfillment of the Messiah back then in the first century, but the single Anti-Christ “Man of Sin” emerged as the first front-runner of the pack of contenders for this title who was able to get into the Jerusalem temple and there boldly claim to be Israel’s Messiah leader.

And lea is quite correct that the pope can NEVER be the Anti-christ.  The definition of the spirit of anti-Christ is to deny that Jesus Christ was the Son of God that has come in the flesh (I John 2:22 and 4:3).  That’s the sum total description of the spirit of an anti-christ.  The pope may be many things, but at the very least, he can NEVER be described as denying that Jesus Christ came in the flesh as the Son of the Father.

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Reply #47 by seekingHiswisdom

  Scripture doesn't mention "MEN of sin, sonS of perdition", etc. The antichrist will be ONE MAN, the most-evil human who ever lived, indwelt by Satan.
  And he will deny God, and anything/anyone else who's ever been worshipped, proclaiming himself to be God. Not very pope-like, is it?
  These facts are plainly in Scripture, so deny all you like.
  And, Lea, you are right! The AC will NOT be a pope !

@robycop3 and @lea

I will excuse Lea from this post, only wanting to firm up some facts in her mind. She has a differing view then I do.

But you robycop3 . We are in the beginning of the end of the age. The true evilness that the antiChrist will bring forth
has only begun to surface. Everyday now, though, it will increase.

As Jesus said
Mathew 24:8 tells us ... All these are the beginning of sorrows.

It will wax worse and worse. As will the eventual ID of the AntiChrist....

Now...

..the POPE certainly can and most likely is as he is already showing signs of falling away from the true calling of his position as leader of the church.

He is taking baby steps.... he is masterful....

But not just this pope.... it has been for a long time.... but it was this one who has said many damaging things.

You are posting in Grace Centered Christian Forums. Do you understand the purpose here?

Before continuing you need to ask yourself what being a Christian is all about and who you put your faith in for your eternal existence once you are out of this mortal world.

Check out some of it ....

When the man Jesus walked the earth among the people he made a statement.

John 14:6 New King James Version (NKJV)

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Did the man Jesus lie?

Do you think this is something the "Pope" would understand? Do you think this is something the Pope should understand?

They phrase it in the Catholic bible ... the one the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops  uses.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth  and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Seems very clear. Even in the Catholic bible.... Jesus is the only way.

In 2014........
Pope Francis said 

And was re-reported 
"July 2017 – At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church…”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good. There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations. These are, as the great Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us

https://www.catholicsarenotchristians.com/pope-francis-says-it-is-dangerous-and-harmful-to-have-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-christ/

This would be the same pope who in Feb 2019......

Pope Francis signs peace declaration on ‘Human Fraternity’ with Grand Imam

Catholics, Muslims and all who believe in God must work together to build a culture of love, peace and human fraternity, Pope Francis said in a joint statement he signed with Ahmed el-Tayeb, Grand Imam of al-Azhar, during an interreligious meeting in Abu Dhabi.

And while not necessarily bad in and of itself.... remember

The Catechism....

CCC - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 ... - Vatican
http://www.vatican.va › archive › ccc_css › archive › catechism

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.

Furthering the Pope's general beliefs …

Pope Francis: Don’t be afraid that God has allowed different religions in the world
https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2019/04/03/pope-francis-dont-be-afraid-god-has-allowed-different-religions-world

Vatican Council and Papal Statements on Islam
 
Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964
“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”


These are not the thoughts of a leader(s) whose main goal should be leading the flock to Jesus and eternity hereafter with him. For Jesus said it is only through him.

Paul VI 

"Whence suffering and what purpose does it serve? ... The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. ... with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. ... faith (6)-are included in the same Patriarch's call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church ..."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

NO.... The popes are men, same as you. They put their pants on one leg at a time...just like you.

So, yes.... the office of Pope very well, and most likely is or is in lockstep  with the AC no matter who is sitting in the Vatican

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Reply #48 by RB

The emphasis you are putting on the words “THEY” and “THEM” in II Thess. 2 applies to the many of those who are DECEIVED. 

Greetings mysterty man~for those who have no clue as to why I said that it is because you know me personally, and we have been in each other's home, worshipped together at one time a few years back, and live just a few miles from each other~yet since I go by my name and you do not you have kept your identity from me, which as I have said.....that's very strange, and to be frank, and downright unchristian toward another brother, unless you have something to hide~but, hey, I'm transparent as every child of God should be.

John 18:19.20~"The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine. Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing."

I will follow the path that Jesus walked in this world, you can follow whatever spirit that you think you should and we shall see which one Christ shall approve of in that day for sure he will judge our actions towards each other as far as our stewardship goes.

The emphasis you are putting on the words “THEY” and “THEM” in II Thess. 2 applies to the many of those who are DECEIVED.

Actually it applies to "all", not many.

These words do not apply to the SINGLE individual DECEIVER of “them”, who is the single “Man of Lawlessness” or “Man of Sin”.

Well, I never said that it did, the man OF SIN or MAN of sin is a collective noun speaking of ALL that live under the power of sin, ESPECIALLY SO as ruling in the temple of God, or, the outward professing places of worship throughout Mystery Babylon~thereby she prostitutes herself to the people of Mystery Babylon thus she is termed the HARLOT under the leadership of the millions of false prophets.

You can’t have one without the other.  A deceiver acts upon the group of the deceived.

They are ONE and the SAME~much like when Christ said these words:

Matthew 15:14~"Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."

You said:

And interestingly, in the Luke 21:8 text (compared to Matt. 24:5), this deceiver does NOT say “I AM CHRIST”.  What the deceiver says is “I AM” (ego eimi).   The word “Christ” is italicized, meaning it is inserted into the Luke 21:8 text.

Your words are used with a subterfuge spirit, whether purposely I do not know, but I do not believe they are~ that much I'll give you, but no more than that. Italicized words are NEVER used in a way to change a verse, I have never seen that and I have even tested it many times over and every time it was helpful, and even more than that, NEEDFUL to even make sense, and generally borrowed from other like scriptures JUST AS LUKE 21:8 were from Matthew 24:5! Sir, NO DUMB FOOL would ever come professing something like that, for if he did, he would deceive NO ONE, except worse fools than himself!  But, if they come IN JESUS' name preaching Christ saying that he IS THE CHRIST, then they have the potential to deceive millions, even billions of followers just as RCC and EOC and Muslims, Baptist, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and hundreds of more cults have been successful doing~and you cannot do this WITHOUT preaching that Jesus is the Christ. This is exactly the meaning of such scriptures as Matthew 24:5, Mark and Luke's account.

I have a meeting, may come back later to finish or later tomorrow~I really owe you no answer until you reveal yourself to me, but I'm following Christ's example that he left for us so be thankful that I'm not being like you and I WOULD NOT, not even to an enemy, and I have a few of them.   

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Reply #49 by RB

You'll just have to consider who an antichrist was before AD70.  during the days of the apostles John said there were many!

(Added by RB for discussion) Greetings Lea, I change your wording just a little to make it MORE biblical since 70 A.D. is truly not even a biblical consideration by the Spirit of God, men have added such doctrine, just as the wicked doctrine of a "secret rapture" and all that comes with that teaching! Neither of them are even taught in the scriptures, yet the way that many preach both you would think that they were taught.

Now let me put your quote back as you posted it and add a comment:

The "antichrist" can NEVER be the Pope.

Sorry, but Catholics, if anything, are just as much "pro-Christ" as Protestants! And just as much orthodox!

You'll just have to consider who an antichrist was before AD70.  PS, John said there were many!

(Red highlight are mine~RB)Lea, you are correct, that there were MANY in the apostles days (and even before) and what Daniel, Christ, Paul, and John in order taught was that this SAME SPIRIT will come in GREAT MULTITUDES than EVER BEFORE in the latter days of this LAST day just before the coming of Jesus Christ  (the TRUE great tribulation period that will be strictly SPIRITUAL IN NATURE)  and when Christ shall come he will destroy this present world and all things therein INCLUDING the wicked in the lake of fire which will be THIS PRESENT WORLD as it shall melt with vehement heat and passed away just as the wicked shall do....therefore PERISH. In other words~the heaven and this earth as we know it shall be THE LAKE OF FIRE, for I know of no other place in the scriptures that could FIT that place that John spoke of, which he called the SECOND DEATH for all who reject and hated God, his word and above all, his Darling Son in whom he was well pleased with.

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Reply #50 by RB

When they rejected Jesus as being that Messiah, they began to look for a substitute “I AM” in those days, as close to AD 30 as possible

That's pure speculation on your part~besides, even those few that believe in a coming Messiah, their understanding was so little that even the apostles after three years with Christ teaching them still did not understand that it was imperative that Christ was to FIRST DIE for their sins and had to be resurrected for their justification~even though they had such scriptures as Isaiah 53 and others. A few handfuls understood these truths, but not many.

Matthew 16:21,22~"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee."

You added:

Many did claim to be this fulfillment of the Messiah back then in the first century, but the single Anti-Christ “Man of Sin” emerged as the first front-runner of the pack of contenders for this title who was able to get into the Jerusalem temple and there boldly claim to be Israel’s Messiah leader.

Again, pure speculation and wishful thinking fueled by you seeking truth outside of the word of God in the writing of the unbeliever...... Josephus. This is what trusting in "extra-Biblical" sources leads folks in believing when children should be getting their food from their Father's table, not from a stranger's table who is out to use deception in order to get one to eat their poison!

I must run to get my dying grandson one of his favorite drink at Starbuck's~"Mocha Cookie Crumble Frappuccino".....Whatever he ask for at this point I go and do it cheerfully with a broken heart knowing his days are very, very few. 

I want to come back and address your last point....later. RB

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Reply #51 by GB

The "antichrist" can NEVER be the Pope.

Sorry, but Catholics, if anything, are just as much "pro-Christ" as Protestants! And just as much orthodox!

You'll just have to consider who an antichrist was before AD70.  PS, John said there were many!

Hi Lea,

Wouldn't the Pharisees be "anti-Christ"?

2 Cor. 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Would these not be "Anti-Christ's"?

I think folks should think about this a little.

Matt. 23:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Are we to believe that the "many" Anti-Christ's are only those that say Jesus wasn't the God of the OT?

What about folks who teach lies about the Christ?

What about religious men who promote another Christ, a different one? An image of Him in the likeness of some  man. A Christ who didn't create the Commandments, who doesn't write them on the hearts of the truly repentant.

I think it is a deception to believe we are waiting for some popular religious man, who calls himself the Christ, to show up and deceive the religious masses. In Jesus' time the religious masses were already deceived. Not that there wasn't a God, but that their religion was more precious than the Word of God. Is this also not the case today?

This is good stuff to talk about if we can do so in an unbiased way. Think about this. When asked about the end times Jesus warned of one thing. He didn't say to take heed of Islam, or Jews, or Atheist's. Of all the things HE could have said to take heed of, HE chose one. Men who come in HIS Name.

Great topic, good discussion.

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Reply #52 by RB

And lea is quite correct that the pope can NEVER be the Anti-christ. 

Sorry, but she is not even close, even though she may love and fear God, on this doctrine she is in serious error.

Who is the Antichrist? Who is the man of sin?Or we could ask~who or what is the abomination of desolation? They all are ONE and the same, without controversy the scriptures will support this truth. 

A great many people think that the prophesy of Antichrist details the future coming of Satan incarnate, or of a single individual that will be ruled or indwelt by Him. Others believe that Antichrist will be a world ruler, a leader that will be able to deceive by his amiable style or cunning politics. Still others speculate that the Bible does not specifically say who the Antichrist is or where he will come from, just that he will be revealed. None of these ideas are true. The prophecy of Antichrist is quite possibly the most misunderstood prophecy in all of Christendom. And this is no doubt exacerbated by Premillennialism (one of the dominant doctrines in Mystery Babylon's religious sector) confusing the issue with private interpretations of chapters like Daniel 7-9 (the prophecy of the little horn), and 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 (the man of sin). Typically and indeed inexplicably, these Theologians tend to either totally ignore or place very little emphasis on both the actual word, and the very passages in scripture where it is found. One is left to wonder how a Christian Biblically defines the Antichrist without carefully considering both the word itself, and all of the pertinent verses where it is actually found? To ignore these things would seem to defy logic, reason and a sound biblical hermeneutic. For in order to find out what God is illustrating by His use of the word Antichrist, it is self evident that we must study the passages explicitly talking about Antichrist, and let the scriptures themselves define and interpret its meaning. If God is the author of Holy Canon, then it will be God (rather than man) who must define the term. A sound exegesis is practiced in not following what we might think, assume, or surmise, but following what the scriptures themselves actually declare concerning the matter.

We will come back and will look first at the word Antichrist itself, and then we will consider circumspectly (in context) all of the passages in scripture where this word is used. In doing so, we hope to shed some light on this most misunderstood subject concerning "who is the Antichrist." We will endeavor to cast off all speculation and personal or private interpretations about who is the man of sin. Does it concern a confederacy of ten nations, or the spawn of the cursed? If we receive our interpretations from within the testimony of God Himself, we will clearly see the identity of the Antichrist. In leaning not to our own understanding, but receiving what the Bible alone has to say about this issue, this is the only way that Christians are going to come to any truth of who is the Antichrist.

More to come....RB

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Reply #53 by 3 Resurrections Hi RB,

Yes, our grandchildren can get a stranglehold on our hearts.  Even 15 years and more after losing one of mine who never drew breath on this earth, the tears still flow for that most precious child.  God give you strength, brother, and make even these days a blessing for you and yours.  I hope perhaps that the give-and-take on these forum discussions can be a bit of temporary relief from some of your grief-stricken thoughts in the meantime.

You mentioned that it was “pure speculation” that the Jews were anticipating the arrival of the Messiah in AD 30.  This is not so.  Luke 3:15 says otherwise.  “And as the people were IN EXPECTATION, and ALL MEN mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not...”. This was at the very beginning of John’s ministry of baptism, around the 15th year of emperor Tiberius (Luke 3:1).  God expects you to know that date.

The Pharisees were well aware of the beginning year of Daniel’s 70th week when “Messiah the Prince” would be manifested to their nation.  That’s why they sent a delegation of priests and Levites to John in John 1:19, asking if John were the Christ that Daniel had prophesied about.  Their expectation and examination of John was in the year AD 30, since Jesus’ first Passover visit during the start of His public ministry that year was 46 years after Herod’s temple construction began (John 2:20) in 17 BC.  God expects you to know this date.

Once John the Baptist had presented Jesus to Andrew as the “Lamb of God”, Andrew then sought out his brother Simon and told him, “ ‘We have found the MESSIAS,’ which is, being interpreted, the Christ.” (John 1:41). This shows that Andrew and his brother Simon had been on the alert and seeking the manifestation of Daniel 9’s prophesied Messiah at that time.

Even the Samaritan woman at the well was on the alert to be looking for the Messiah.  She told Jesus in John 4:25, “I know that MESSIAS cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.”  Once Jesus introduced Himself as being that very Messiah, she immediately went back to the men of her city and announced this news - “Is not this the Christ?” -  to these men who apparently had also been expecting the arrival of the Messiah at that time, as well as her.

RB, I only quote all these examples so that you can see that these first-century Jews knew their Daniel scriptures very well, and were paying attention to the exact year when that 70th “week” of years would begin in AD 30.  Though many of the Jews heard Jesus gladly, generally speaking, Jesus “came unto His own, and His own received him not” (John 1:11).  The rejection was official, coming from the priesthood leadership, who did not even want Pilate’s sign hung over a crucified Jesus, stating that Jesus was the King of the Jews (John 19:19-21). 

If you were the Pharisees and the high priests who had just rejected the man Jesus as being the Messiah Daniel had foretold, you needed to replace Him with another individual who would try to fulfill that Daniel 9 prophecy.  They needed to do this AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to Daniel’s prophesied AD 30 year in order for the substituted, fake Messiah (the “false Christ’s” of Matthew 24:24 or “anti-christs” of I John 2:18) to be believable for the Jewish people who also knew the year that the Messiah was to be manifested. 

The Pharisees could fudge the AD 30 date a little bit, but not by much and still get away with the deception.  This was the “strong delusion, that they should believe a lie” spoken about in II Thess. 2:11.  A lie perpetrated by the single individual Anti-christ “Man of Lawlessness”, claiming to be that Daniel 9:25 Messiah fulfillment.

RB, this Matthew 24:24 prediction of the “FALSE CHRISTS” (pseudochristoi) tells me that these individuals would come falsely pretending TO *BE* THE MESSIAH - not teaching that Jesus was the Christ, which is absolute truth - not a lie.  The message that any anti-christ taught was that Jesus was not God’s Son come in the flesh already back in the prophesied AD 30 year.  They were claiming that prophesied identity for themselves. 

And yes, we do have a scriptural example of one Egyptian who had already tried to establish himself as a military Messiah leader of the nation of Israel. In Acts 21:38, the chief captain asked a chained-up Paul, “Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?”  (This insurrection took place around AD 55).  That “wilderness” setting for the “false christs” gathering followers together Jesus had already warned the disciples about in Matthew 24:26.  “Wherefore if they shall say unto you Behold He is in the DESERT; go not forth...”.  Jesus had that Egyptian “false christ” in mind when He spoke those words of warning to His disciples.

RB, you are trying to kidnap the contemporary first-century fulfillment of these anti-christs’ activities and transplant them into our generation.  These multiple anti-christs John said had ALREADY COME OUT FROM AMONG THOSE HE WAS WRITING TO IN THAT *LAST HOUR* (John 2:18-19).  You are almost 2,000 years too late getting the news bulletin.

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Reply #54 by seekingHiswisdom

I think it is a deception to believe we are waiting for some popular religious man, who calls himself the Christ, to show up and deceive the religious masses. In Jesus' time the religious masses were already deceived. Not that there wasn't a God, but that their religion was more precious than the Word of God. Is this also not the case today?

This is good stuff to talk about if we can do so in an unbiased way. Think about this. When asked about the end times Jesus warned of one thing. He didn't say to take heed of Islam, or Jews, or Atheist's. Of all the things HE could have said to take heed of, HE chose one. Men who come in HIS Name.

Great topic, good discussion.

I agree, to a degree, with what you replied.... but not this.

 I, for one, am waiting for "the" antiChrist, whom I believe will not be a popup minister claiming to be Christ, or even a deceiver with such claims.

We had that... not terribly long ago.....

"“I represent the messiah.” Farrakhan said, again referencing Jesus. “I represent the Jesus and I am that Jesus. If I am not, take my life.”

Louis Farrakhan ~ https://www.jpost.com/OMG/Farrakhan-I-represent-the-Jesus-that-saves-585978

And he is not alone in the "cults" of this world.

No, this one who is coming... he will be the great deceiver. Where possible deceiving the very elect. (Mathew 24:24)

Are you aware that the idea of Anti-Christ or the Antichrist is not claimed only by Christian believers?

It is also within the Islamic faith. In Islamic eschatology, Al-Masih ad-Dajjal is an anti-messiah figure ... similar to anti Christ... that will deceive humanity before the second coming of Jesus.

While we know that Islam does not believe in Jesus as savior, but only as a great prophet...

But from 2 world religions... Christianity and Muslim.... it cannot escape our common ancestor... without whom we would not have evolved and neither would they. Abraham ( with Hagar) ((them)) and Abraham ( with Sarah) ((us))

So do you not find it interesting that through the ages of the 2 religions clashing that their would be this commonality of
anti-christ or as they say.anti-messiah figure?

Now their beliefs are so anti Jesus that one naturally can believe they are all anti-Christs.... While there is a definite
similarity, it stops.

Muslim end times beliefs are

In the final days, Muslims hold, Jesus indeed comes again.

This is the Muslim version of Jesus – Isa Al-Maseeh, who just happens to fit the description of the “false prophet” described in Revelation as performing miraculous signs and being worshipped.

This Muslim “Isa”  is just one of the last in a series of prophets, all of whom testified to the future coming of Muhammad and God’s final revelation. 

At the end, Isa Al-Maseeh will descend and destroy all crosses,  and kill all Christians and others who refuse to convert to Islam. (Much as the Muslim extremists wage Jihad against us today)

There will also be an anti-Christ – Ad-Dajjal in the Muslim version.

He will claim to be the Messiah, but is a liar. He will become the charismatic leader of the Jews, followed by Jews and women, but will finally be slaughtered by the Muslim Jesus.

The final apocalyptic battles will take place north of Israel in the land of Magog (Rev. 20:7) during the reign of the final caliphate, the Mahdi (the rough Muslim equivalent of the pope),  who will rule over all of Islam.

  The Mahdi will wear a crown and ride a white horse, matching the description in Revelation 6:2 And with the help of Isa Al-Maseeh ...the Muslim Jesus... will defeat Dajjal ...the Muslim anti-Christ..., resulting in a world where Islam finally is the only religion, and all other religions have been banished from the face of the earth.

Did you catch that... their Mahdi is the Muslim equivalent of the POPE. And this is a synopsis of their endtimes.

As to what Christians call... "The anti Christ.

I believe what I read and study in John and the book of Revelation. I come with the following conclusions.

One can have a spirit of antiChrist and not be "THE" antiChrist of end times.

 The anti-Christ...  is a deceiver who denies that there can be any relationship between Father and Son in God: “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?

Remember.... It was the current Pope Francis who was re-reported ( as I posted above)
And was re-reported
"July 2017 – At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church…”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good. There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations. These are, as the great Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us

https://www.catholicsarenotchristians.com/pope-francis-says-it-is-dangerous-and-harmful-to-have-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-christ/

(And while I am not naming Pope Francis as the "Antichrist" this is among many baby steps in the end times leading that church into a great falling away._

continuing
He is anti-Christ who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” (1 John 2:22-23)

First you need to create a separation from people clinging to Jesus in personal relationship and direct them to the church for their guidance, before you can step up and say "I am HE"

Further ~ The anti-Christ refuses to recognize that the Son of God has come to earth and become human. Or at minimum will convince people this is so with his claims to be Christ.

We are told by John  “Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the anti-Christ, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” (1 John 4:1-3)

There is no argument that the spirit of Anti Christ is here.  We all know people who scoff at this idea.

But the anti Christ of the end is not the spirit of anti Christ.... anymore then we, who have the Holy Spirit abiding within us are the Holy Spirit.... They are 2 separate things.

The “seducer” and “anti-Christ” is one who denies this truth about God’s Son... not necessarily believing what he is saying but of necessity needing to convince the people of this to further his deception.

2 John 1:7 says For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Satan, through the ministrations of the “Dragon” and the “Beast” (see Rev. 13:4), who promote the spirit of the anti-Christ, will seek total world domination and worship. And those who refuse to adore “the beast or his image”  will be beheaded.. (Rev. 20:4)

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Reply #55 by GB

I agree, to a degree, with what you replied.... but not this.

 I, for one, am waiting for "the" antiChrist, whom I believe will not be a popup minister claiming to be Christ, or even a deceiver with such claims.

We had that... not terribly long ago.....

"“I represent the messiah.” Farrakhan said, again referencing Jesus. “I represent the Jesus and I am that Jesus. If I am not, take my life.”

Louis Farrakhan ~ https://www.jpost.com/OMG/Farrakhan-I-represent-the-Jesus-that-saves-585978

And he is not alone in the "cults" of this world.

No, this one who is coming... he will be the great deceiver. Where possible deceiving the very elect. (Mathew 24:24)

Are you aware that the idea of Anti-Christ or the Antichrist is not claimed only by Christian believers?

It is also within the Islamic faith. In Islamic eschatology, Al-Masih ad-Dajjal is an anti-messiah figure ... similar to anti Christ... that will deceive humanity before the second coming of Jesus.

While we know that Islam does not believe in Jesus as savior, but only as a great prophet...

But from 2 world religions... Christianity and Muslim.... it cannot escape our common ancestor... without whom we would not have evolved and neither would they. Abraham ( with Hagar) ((them)) and Abraham ( with Sarah) ((us))

So do you not find it interesting that through the ages of the 2 religions clashing that their would be this commonality of
anti-christ or as they say.anti-messiah figure?

Now their beliefs are so anti Jesus that one naturally can believe they are all anti-Christs.... While there is a definite
similarity, it stops.

Muslim end times beliefs are

In the final days, Muslims hold, Jesus indeed comes again.

This is the Muslim version of Jesus – Isa Al-Maseeh, who just happens to fit the description of the “false prophet” described in Revelation as performing miraculous signs and being worshipped.

This Muslim “Isa”  is just one of the last in a series of prophets, all of whom testified to the future coming of Muhammad and God’s final revelation. 

At the end, Isa Al-Maseeh will descend and destroy all crosses,  and kill all Christians and others who refuse to convert to Islam. (Much as the Muslim extremists wage Jihad against us today)

There will also be an anti-Christ – Ad-Dajjal in the Muslim version.

He will claim to be the Messiah, but is a liar. He will become the charismatic leader of the Jews, followed by Jews and women, but will finally be slaughtered by the Muslim Jesus.

The final apocalyptic battles will take place north of Israel in the land of Magog (Rev. 20:7) during the reign of the final caliphate, the Mahdi (the rough Muslim equivalent of the pope),  who will rule over all of Islam.

  The Mahdi will wear a crown and ride a white horse, matching the description in Revelation 6:2 And with the help of Isa Al-Maseeh ...the Muslim Jesus... will defeat Dajjal ...the Muslim anti-Christ..., resulting in a world where Islam finally is the only religion, and all other religions have been banished from the face of the earth.

Did you catch that... their Mahdi is the Muslim equivalent of the POPE. And this is a synopsis of their endtimes.

As to what Christians call... "The anti Christ.

I believe what I read and study in John and the book of Revelation. I come with the following conclusions.

One can have a spirit of antiChrist and not be "THE" antiChrist of end times.

 The anti-Christ...  is a deceiver who denies that there can be any relationship between Father and Son in God: “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?

Remember.... It was the current Pope Francis who was re-reported ( as I posted above)
And was re-reported
"July 2017 – At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church…”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good. There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations. These are, as the great Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us

https://www.catholicsarenotchristians.com/pope-francis-says-it-is-dangerous-and-harmful-to-have-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-christ/

(And while I am not naming Pope Francis as the "Antichrist" this is among many baby steps in the end times leading that church into a great falling away._

continuing
He is anti-Christ who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” (1 John 2:22-23)

First you need to create a separation from people clinging to Jesus in personal relationship and direct them to the church for their guidance, before you can step up and say "I am HE"

Further ~ The anti-Christ refuses to recognize that the Son of God has come to earth and become human. Or at minimum will convince people this is so with his claims to be Christ.

We are told by John  “Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the anti-Christ, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” (1 John 4:1-3)

There is no argument that the spirit of Anti Christ is here.  We all know people who scoff at this idea.

But the anti Christ of the end is not the spirit of anti Christ.... anymore then we, who have the Holy Spirit abiding within us are the Holy Spirit.... They are 2 separate things.

The “seducer” and “anti-Christ” is one who denies this truth about God’s Son... not necessarily believing what he is saying but of necessity needing to convince the people of this to further his deception.

2 John 1:7 says For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Satan, through the ministrations of the “Dragon” and the “Beast” (see Rev. 13:4), who promote the spirit of the anti-Christ, will seek total world domination and worship. And those who refuse to adore “the beast or his image”  will be beheaded.. (Rev. 20:4)

Yes, there have been volumes of books written by religious men sharing literally thousands of "end time" scenarios.

But from my perspective, do we not all have "end times"? I mean, I know Jesus will return at some point, but if I die today, isn't that HIS return for me? Isn't the "Thief in the night" the end of my life which I don't know when will happen? Shouldn't a wise man be prepared and endure "until the end"? That would be the end of their life, right?

Also, from my perspective, most men don't really believe Jesus was flesh and blood just like I am. They really don't believe HE overcame sin by humbling Himself to God, rather, He overcame sin because HE had Godly powers no other human has ever had.

I have been banned from forums like this for just suggesting Jesus was a man just like you and I. I have been called a heretic because I don't believe Jesus was some kind of Hybrid Man unlike any other man ever born. I truly do believe HE came in the Flesh in all ways like unto His brethren. But that would mean every human, if they denied themselves and trusted the Armor of God, could humble themselves to God and "sin no more". A belief that is universally rejected by almost every religion under the "Christian banner".

From my perspective I see a massive religion which has created an image of God in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model and distributed this image through out the entire world. To the point that if you showed this image to almost anyone over the age of 12 on the planet, they would identify it as Jesus. Even though scriptures tell us HE wasn't some handsome hunk of a man with perfect profile..

I see a massive religion which has rejected wholesale the "Feast's of the Christ" and have replaced them with man made High Days founded in ancient pagan festivals. And have promoted them into the greatest religious high days ever seen on the planet, observed literally by the entire world. To the point where the economic success of many peoples on the earth is determined by commerce during these man made religious high Days.

How can it be said that those true elect during the Holocaust didn't experience "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be".

Or those elect who died during WW1, or the Inquisition, or any of a number of horrible times on this earth. It is said Peter was crucified upside down. Was that not his "end time"? How much worse could it get for Peter?

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

What happens when a man "denies himself", which Jesus said "ALL" who come to HIM must do?

Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Is this not Spiritually being "Beheaded"? Is not my head "Put off" and replaced with a mind of a "New Man"?

Col. 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

What is put off? Is it not our mind? Or thoughts? Our way of thinking?

Or is Revelation 20:4 only speaking to those Elect who died one specific way? Stephen wouldn't be qualified to reign with the Christ then, nor the thief on the cross.

What generation since Jesus ascended into heaven has not lived with "wars and rumors of wars"? Can you name one?

What has divided humans more than religion? If I persuade you to transgress God's Commandments, am I not Spiritually killing you?

No, there is something wrong with the idea that the Christ is a respecter of persons. That we don't get to reign with Him in His Kingdom unless we are murdered a certain way. Or that the warnings of the Christ were only for the people of that age.

2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Who are these? Do they exist today? And how will we know them?

IS. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Jn. 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Why did Jesus reject the only God of Abraham preaching religion of HIS Time? Was it because they were "Children of obedience"? No!!

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I think God surely knows what HE is saying, and that we should spend more time listening to HIS Words, and less time listening to the never ending "Theologians" and they ever changing books and doctrines.


Ecc. 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Matt. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, (of his life) the same shall be saved.
 
Food for thought.




 

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Reply #56 by RB

Hi RB,

Yes, our grandchildren can get a stranglehold on our hearts.  Even 15 years and more after losing one of mine who never drew breath on this earth, the tears still flow for that most precious child.  God give you strength, brother, and make even these days a blessing for you and yours.  I hope perhaps that the give-and-take on these forum discussions can be a bit of temporary relief from some of your grief-stricken thoughts in the meantime.

Thank you, and because of Taylor's sickness (Destini's oldest son) I'm going to be very short with TIME, so let me finish with looking at the topic ANTICHRIST and then come back and answer you post, since you said a lot and we must go back to Jeremiah's prophecy and Daniel consideration of that prophecy and look at the scriptures you mentioned in Luke, etc.

I do understand your concern about me knowing those dates and I do not disagree with your post concerning that point, yet we will disagree with even the most righteous among the Jews of that day (A.D.) that there were maybe only a handful that actually was truly LOOKING for the appearing of the Messiah~and they are mention in Luke.

Luke 2:25-33~"And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."

Brother, truly how many saints in Israel at that time HAD THE LIGHT that Simeon had which was given to him by God above almost every person living? While I agree that certain expectations that are written should be understood by all of us, who believe, yet most do not see the truth until God reveals the truth to us. I believe where you and I will strongly disagree will be concerning the last half of the final week of Daniel's prohecy, and this is where you and I will spit and go our separate ways based on the light that each possesses.

To discuss this may even take a whole thread of itself dealing with Daniel's intrepretation of the seventy weeks of prophecy as given to him from Gabriel.

Daniel 9:20-27~"And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Our disagreement is truly over what I highlighted in red~This is where we should start in order to answer your post and it would be impossible to do so now and do justice to this subject. Agree or disagree? Brother, ON THIS VERY POINT is where I had so much problem with JRC (you know whom I talking about) which eventually caused our separation since he was more along the lines of your understanding, even though different somewhat, but not that much. I believe you first learn this under him~correct or am I wrong? I would never accept his teaching on this subject (when I first met him almost thirty-five years ago) which caused strong friction between us among other things~church government, etc etc.

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Reply #57 by RB

Food for thought.

So much poison in this food~NO THANKS.

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Reply #58 by RB

But from my perspective, do we not all have "end times"? I mean, I know Jesus will return at some point, but if I die today, isn't that HIS return for me? Isn't the "

A few words since this is ANOTHER subject all together than "What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?" I will attempt to tie your post back into this thread somewhat, or the best that I can.

You are confused about this subject like all other of your "food for thoughts".

but if I die today, isn't that HIS return for me?

Not according to God's word. With that doctrine where does that leaves the unbeliever? Beside death is NOT HIS COMING to gather together his elect from the four winds of heaven!

Also, from my perspective, most men don't really believe Jesus was flesh and blood just like I am. They really don't believe HE overcame sin by humbling Himself to God, rather, He overcame sin because HE had Godly powers no other human has ever had.

I have been banned from forums like this for just suggesting Jesus was a man just like you and I. I have been called a heretic because I don't believe Jesus was some kind of Hybrid Man unlike any other man ever born. I truly do believe HE came in the Flesh in all ways like unto His brethren. But that would mean every human, if they denied themselves and trusted the Armor of God, could humble themselves to God and "sin no more". A belief that is universally rejected by almost every religion under the "Christian banner".

A strawman argument, which is the trademark of all of your posts.

CHRISTIANS believe that Jesus was FULLY man just as we are, and in ALL points tempted as we are. That's not even debatable among Believers. Not ONE believer teach that he overcame sin by his Divine nature, but AS A MAN. Another one of your logical fallacies used by you, since you truly have no strong arguments in your antichrist theology.
 
You reject Jesus' COMPLEX NATURE being BOTH FULLY man and FULLY God, and these two distinct natures were ever separate in him and NEVER acted as co-partners in his work of redemption for his people! You deserve to be banned from CHRISTIANS forums for your doctrine is ANTICHRIST per 2nd John.

2nd John 1:7-10~"For many deceivers are entered into the world. who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist! Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:"

You have been banned from CHRISTIANS forums because you reject the DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST and rightly so.     

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Reply #59 by 3 Resurrections Hi again RB,

I presume that you believe in a sort of “gap theory” for the last half of Daniel’s 70th week, yes?  If so, we don’t agree on that point.  I’ve no idea what JRC ever taught on this.  None of my beliefs on eschatology are based on his views as a reference point, since he never taught much on this while I was a member in his church, and I make it a point to avoid visiting his website except on very rare occasions.  It triggers too many bad memories of spiritual abuse.

The 70 weeks of Daniel are an intact timeline with no interruptions from start to finish (454 BC - AD 37).  Regarding the final flood of AD 70 “overspreading of desolations” of Jerusalem and its temple, this prophecy was “SEALED UP” within that intact period of 70 weeks. This “sealing up” of the 70-week prophecy details was separated from the time when those prophesied final desolations of the war were to be later UNSEALED when John’s Revelation visions were “AT HAND”.   (And I go by God’s own definition of what “AT HAND” means in Ezekiel 12:21-28.)

The BEGINNING  of the first half of this 70th week was supposed to manifest “Messiah the Prince” in AD 30, whose sacrifice of Himself in the MIDDLE of that 70th week (Passover AD 33) would accomplish ALL SIX of the predictions given in Daniel 9:24.

Jesus the “Messiah the Prince” was the “messenger of the covenant” (Mal. 3:1).  He would “confirm the covenant with many” (Dan. 9:27) of His own people for a full “week” of seven years. This “week” began with the start of His 3-1/2 year ministry in AD 30, and continued under His disciples for 3-1/2 years after Jesus was “cut off out of the land of the living” in AD 33 in the middle of that “week” (Dan. 9:26 compared to Is. 53:8). 

His disciples continued to offer that gospel only “to the Jews first” (Rom. 1:16) during that 3-1/2 years, but starting with Paul’s temple vision in AD 37, began to concentrate on the Gentiles at the close of that 70th “week” in AD 37.  As Paul and Barnabas said in Acts 13:46 to the rebellious Jews who were still rejecting the message of that covenant, “It was NECESSARY that the gospel should FIRST have been spoken to you” (necessary to fulfill Daniel’s last 70th week with the gospel going to the remnant of the  “lost sheep of the house of Israel”), “but seeing ye put it from you and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, lo, WE TURN TO THE GENTILES.”  The end of the 70th “week” was the end of the gospel emphasis concentrated first on the Jews, which then switched focus to the pagan Gentile nations on AD 37.

Once the Jewish leadership rejected Christ because He did not come as a warrior king offering military opposition against the Romans as they thought the Messiah would do, the “false prophets” Jesus predicted in Matt. 24:24 started promoting the agenda of “false christs” in those days, offered as a substitute for Daniel’s prophesied “Messiah the Prince”.

THE one individual Anti-christ / Man of Sin / false christ, emerging from the group of “many anti-christs” / “many false christs” that had gone out into the world in those first-century days, was attempting to fulfill Daniel’s dated AD 30 Messiah prophecy, even though they all knew that the AD 30 deadline had already passed.  Satan and his devils were working at full deceptive speed during that “short time” and “little season” on earth (as John in Rev. 12:12 said they were presently doing at that time).  They were fully engaged in keeping these deceptive “false christs” and “false prophets” operating at that time.

Scripture’s emphasis on the heightened deception in those first-century days was due to the massive uptick in demonic oppression that Christ had predicted would increase sevenfold in severity and wickedness during the Jews’ “last state”.  The last state of that “wicked generation” was going to be worse than their “first state” while Christ had been among them casting out devils during His earthly ministry (Matt. 12:43-45).

All this “sevenfold” increase in deception was connected to those unparalleled and unsurpassed, first-century “Great Tribulation” days of vengeance, IMMEDIATELY followed by Christ’s return (Matt. 24:29).  But with  human history in this world CONTINUING LONG AFTER THAT RETURN OF JESUS, since there would be normal periods of regular tribulation which would never be able to rival the severity of that previous Great Tribulation period (Matt. 24:21). 

The reason this Great Tribulation would never be equaled again is because God got rid of the Satanic realm in AD 70, as promised in multiple texts.  That means this monumental threat of complete, “sevenfold” demonic oppression cannot possibly harass humanity again on this earth after that.  Not in Isaiah’s New Heaven and New Earth which now exists.

Just a little light reading to go with your Monday morning coffee, RB. 

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Reply #60 by RB

Just a little light reading to go with your Monday morning coffee, RB. 

You know me well~ I just sat down with my coffee and will read this very carefully a couple of times over~I'm just short of the quality time needed to post effectively for the benefit of the readers and from shaming myself by not covering my bases with a post that folks cannot gainsay or resist the scriptural support needed to convince the gainsayers.

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Reply #61 by RB

I presume that you believe in a sort of “gap theory” for the last half of Daniel’s 70th week, yes?  If so, we don’t agree on that point.  I’ve no idea what JRC ever taught on this.  None of my beliefs on eschatology are based on his views as a reference point, since he never taught much on this while I was a member in his church, and I make it a point to avoid visiting his website except on very rare occasions.  It triggers too many bad memories of spiritual abuse.

The 70 weeks of Daniel are an intact timeline with no interruptions from start to finish (454 BC - AD 37).  Regarding the final flood of AD 70 “overspreading of desolations” of Jerusalem and its temple, this prophecy was “SEALED UP” within that intact period of 70 weeks. This “sealing up” of the 70-week prophecy details was separated from the time when those prophesied final desolations of the war were to be later UNSEALED when John’s Revelation visions were “AT HAND”.   (And I go by God’s own definition of what “AT HAND” means in Ezekiel 12:21-28.)

The BEGINNING  of the first half of this 70th week was supposed to manifest “Messiah the Prince” in AD 30, whose sacrifice of Himself in the MIDDLE of that 70th week (Passover AD 33) would accomplish ALL SIX of the predictions given in Daniel 9:24.

(Red highlight are mine~RB) Well now, you and JRC DO believe in a gap theory as well just a little different gap than I DO~and mine is different than the premill camp. Let me finish reading your post again and maybe it would be best to just start a new thread dealing JUST with Daniel 9 for truly it is a totally different doctrine than this present thread. RB

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Reply #62 by Michael2012

Also, from my perspective, most men don't really believe Jesus was flesh and blood just like I am. They really don't believe HE overcame sin by humbling Himself to God, rather, He overcame sin because HE had Godly powers no other human has ever had.

Who are these most men you refer to who really don't believe Jesus was flesh and blood just like you are? Or is that a reference to your world of imagination?

I have been banned from forums like this for just suggesting Jesus was a man just like you and I. I have been called a heretic because I don't believe Jesus was some kind of Hybrid Man unlike any other man ever born. I truly do believe HE came in the Flesh in all ways like unto His brethren. But that would mean every human, if they denied themselves and trusted the Armor of God, could humble themselves to God and "sin no more". A belief that is universally rejected by almost every religion under the "Christian banner".

Well, regarding the human nature of Jesus, we just have to believe in God's words written in scriptures.

The Word. The coming in the flesh.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Born in the flesh.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Suffered and died in the flesh, and buried.

John 19:1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.

John 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: 18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 19:40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

Heb. 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Heb. 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

And also, regarding the divine nature of Christ, we just have to believe in God's words written in scriptures.

God, the Word.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

God, the Creator.

John 1:1 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

God, the Son.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

God, in the flesh.

Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

According to scriptures, Jesus Christ is the Son of man and the Son of God.

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

And so, who is antiChrist?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Who has the spirit of the antiChrist?

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Who is a deceiver and an antichrist?

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

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Reply #63 by RB

Matthew 13:14~"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"

The abomination of desolation is the spirit of antichrist that Jesus warns us of that shall come during the perilous times of the last days that shall FIRST COME in great numbers before the coming of Jesus Christ.

2ns Timothy 3:1-13~"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived."

These men/women are religious folks having a spirit of antichrist in the temple of God, or the professing churches throughout this world standing where they OUGHT NOT TO STAND, but these very men will take over the churches of Mystery Babylon, while the very elect will flee out of Judea, or the very place where God is supposed to be worship, per OT, which language the apostles would have understood at the time Christ delivered the Olivet  Discourse~thereby, it was only fitting that such words should have been used by Christ to them and since we have the TOTAL completion of the word of God we can take them and understand exactly what the Spirit meant by using such words, with the Spirit guiding us into the truth of His word.

Contrary to popular opinion, man isn't literally required to verbally declare, "I am Christ," in order to qualify as a false Christ. All he has to do is usurp the authority of the Word and take Christ's place in the Holy Temple and convince his followers that God is speaking THROUGH HIM TO THEM, which is exactly what the spirit of antichrist will do.  All he has to do is rule God's house (the congregation) by his own will and teach by what is from his own imaginations. Then by definition he is substituting himself for the Word, he is a false Christ. When man rules and seizes authority from God that he might say thus saith the Lord when the Lord has not said, he makes HIS WORD equal to Christ. When man falsely claims that "God will allows this, and God winks at that, and God is not against the other," He is the false prophet, he is an antichrist, he is a false Christ. For he professes to be of Christ, and yet by his doctrine, and actions he works against Him, in essence, he denies Him in favor of the image he himself has created. The authority of Christ is His infallible unadulterated word, and anyone 'substituting' their own words for the Word of God, is carnal and worshipping the image of the Beast. He has become the lawless man, an antichrist exalting himself to high places. This indeed is the true teaching illustrated in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2:

2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4~"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

The sinful man is seen here in a portrait of a false Christ 'because' he positions himself sitting (signifying ruling) in the Holy Temple of God as if he were God. He is by implication substituting his words for God's word. He is thus the disobedient, the lawless man, the man of sin. For the true Christian, Jesus Christ is the Living Word who rules in the Temple. If man in the spirit of antichrist substitutes his own rules (laws) for God's, he has by the spirit of Antichrist made himself ruler in the Temple. He doesn't have to literally say I am Christ the ruling king, he makes himself the ruler and false Christ by usurping the authority of Christ. By his disobedience to God's laws, He is the man of lawlessness[. God illustrates throughout His word that an Antichrist is more than someone who verbally denies Christ in the flesh, he is one who denies Christ by His works. Think about it, why would someone who denies Christ literally or verbally, be ruling in the churches? God's servants would be aware of that and he would deceive no one in the church. That would be an Atheist, and it would make no sense for him to rule the church. On the other hand, it is he that claims to be serving Christ, and yet rationalizes away God's word and cleverly twists God's word, and stealthily removes God's word, that will deceive the church. That's the man of sin's strong delusion, that's the great deception, that's the clever misrepresentation that will seduce an unfaithful congregation. Not an atheist, but an antichrist, a man ruling in place of Christ. It is one who denies the authority of God's law by chicanery substituting his own interpretations, rules, and words for God's. Believer, it is incumbent upon God's children to examine the 'substitute' aspect of this word as Antichrist. For example, when Christ warns, "for many shall come in My name saying I am Christ and shall deceive many"~Matthew 24:4... He wasn't talking about a few mentally deranged individuals who might think or literally claim that they are Christ. At best these could deceive only a few gullible people. Christ was talking about the 'many' antichrists who WILL come looking like a Lamb, but speaking like a Dragon. Many false Christs that praise the Lord with their lips, while they have their own authorities and are substituting themselves as the rulers of Churches, in opposition to God's divine word. They indeed are not a few deranged individuals, but are the many wolves in sheep's clothing who indeed deceive many "exactly" as prophesied. Show me a man who literally says, "I am Christ," and I'll show you a man who is almost universally mocked, who can at best deceive few. But show me a man of lawlessness in the church, with deceiving lips causing many to fall away from the inerrant authority of the Word, and I'll show you Antichrist. I'll show you the man of sin ruling in the Temple of God 'as if' he was God. I'll show you the false prophet and the false Christ. A church body that is not ruled by Christ (the word), is ruled by man. Many will be deceived and believe that this is the Christ.

Mark 13:21-23~"And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things."

I hear this even now~folk say you MUST go here, to hear this man of God, he has the power of God on him~another will say THIS CHURCH is a church and you MUST go there and see for yourself, etc. etc.

These false Christs that rise are showing great signs, signifying that they are of Christ, and our Lord says that they will be so convincing that it might even deceive the very elect of God if that were possible. Obviously it is not a few lunatics thinking they are literally Christ, it is Popes, Bishops, Cardinals, so-called apostles, Pastors, Ministers, Theologians and other church rulers convincing thousands upon thousands that their gospel is of God and that their church is a loving church and sanctioned by God. They substitute their beliefs for His laws, and man's word for His works, and they substitute their sentiments for His commandments, and for His will they substitute their own will. These are the only false Christs who can deceive so greatly and so convincingly that they would even deceive the very elect if they were not divinely sealed by the Spirit of promise. This lawless man ruling in the Temple as if he was God, can only be recognized as such by those possessing the Spirit of truth. "He who hath an ear, let him hear."

Later....RB

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Reply #64 by RB Now we will now take a look at all of the specific verses that use this word Antichrist to determine who is the man of sin. Though there are many scriptures that speak about the action of Antichrist, there are only four verses in the entire Bible that expressly use the word 'antichrist.' These are~ 1st John 2:18, 1st John 2:22, 1st John 4:3, and 2nd John 1:7~ and in order:

1st John 2:18~"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."

Please consider how John clearly debunks the theory of antichrist being one man~ He says as they have heard that antichrist should come in the future (Jesus Himself preached of false Christs coming in Matthew 24; from Daniel 7-12), even then as he wrote this there were already many antichrists. It's important to see that John didn't deny the doctrine that antichrist would come to prominence in the future, rather, he simply told them that even in their time there were indeed many of these antichrists. i.e., antichrist is not a single man as some Christians have presupposed. When we let scriptures define antichrist we see that he has a very different meaning than some theologians of our day. The truth is, he is exactly what the name implies. Anyone who comes as [anti] opposed to, or as a false or substitute for Christ. God already has a name for those who are outside the Church and are opposed to Him. They are infidels or unbelievers. The anti or substitute Christs are something else entirely. They profess that they are the Church but deny Christ in their doctrine and works. The terms 'false Christs and 'antichrists' are basically synonymous, because they illustrate the same spirit of the substitute Christ.

In 1st John 2:18 we read that they had heard that antichrist would come (future), but that there were even then many antichrists already present. Scripture here has defined the antichrist as that which is coming, and indeed many were already present. So again we see scripture confirms that antichrist is Satan manifesting himself in his doctrine and walk. This spirit is seen as character traits of one whose life is in league with Satan, just as the true Christians has the Spirit of God which manifests itself in our life as character traits of our being in league with Christ. Two spirits, one of Christ and the other of antichrist. Antichrist cannot be a single man, nor a supernatural evil man. Satan is that spirit that is both coming (as this spirit will be loosed in the future), and that which was already at work in the world at the time of John's writing. This is information God has given to illuminate these passages that we can glean from them just who antichrist represents. Only the spirit Satan working within men 'qualifies' to both be in the world then, now, and in the future. The spirit of Satan was there working in men, and as they had heard, this spirit would come with all iniquity abounding in the future (iniquity was restrained at the cross ~2nd Thessalonians 2:7). The well oiled myth of a single antichrist man is found wanting when examined in the light of the 'whole' of scripture. Antichrist works (and has worked) throughout time within men whom he uses to do his bidding. For He is that spirit Satan.

Another thing is that in 1st John 2:18 we read that they had heard that antichrist was to come"in the last time"~ and John says the prediction of the coming of the antichrist were being fulfilled even then because there were many antichrists there already (see 1st John 4:3). He confirms, 'whereby we know that it is the last time.' In other words, this is how we know it is the last time. The phrase last time refers to what is also called the 'last days' (Acts 2:17) and encompasses the whole New Testament period when Christ was prophesied to come and to reign. This is telling us this New Covenant period has already been fulfilled 'because' antichrists have come. i.e., you can't have those opposing the true Christ of the Covenant if it is not yet the last time when Christ was prophesied to come. He is declaring to the Church that the presence of antichrists or substitute Christs is evidence that the prophecy is fulfilled of the last days when Christ would come to His temple and reign. The New Testament with spiritual Israel and the final dispensation has come, and the presence of antichrists proves it.

John didn't define these antichrists as many do today, he introduces them as professed Christians who had been among them, but who went their own way because they no longer believed as these faithful did. The very next verse shows that conclusively.

1st John 2:19~"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."

Obviously these antichrists were professing Christians or false apostles, but they no longer could hold to the doctrines they had first received. We see the same type thing happen in our day where some in the Churches don't like the doctrines and so go out from among us to form another Church. The "context" of this chapter shows that these weren't those who denied Christ verbally, but those who denied him doctrinally and attempted to seduce the faithful. They were not antichrists because they denied the historical existence of Jesus (as many define antichrists) they were antichrists because they began teaching a false Christ, or another gospel other than that of Christ. This is a picture of false apostles who wanted a christ after their own image, and to teach their own versions of Christ, and so went out from among the faithful. They went out, that it might be made manifest that they were never 'truly' of the Spirit of Christ in the first place. They were always antichrists. Some theologians have stated that this fact that there were many antichrists doesn't preclude the belief that there can be a single antichrist individual come in the future. However, this is both inconsistent and unbiblical. A man's spirit cannot be in the world for 2000 years before his body is conceived. Satan is the only spirit who 'qualifies' to be here that long, and he has never needed one body. He has an army of bodies down throughout time at his disposal. There is no Biblical warrant for applying such a forced interpretation as one incarnate Satan man. God's Word never defines antichrist as a single man, but as the spirit Satan working through his children. And man (men) with this spirit, are many antichrists. Just as Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees a serpent and a generation of vipers to illustrate they were of their father the Devil, and possessed the spirit of Satan (See and consider: Matthew 23:33). Likewise, those who are of this spirit antichrist, are antichrists. Antichrist can be singular only in that ultimately he is that spirit Satan. If we are going to define antichrist as a single man that is yet to come, we will have to ignore all the scriptures which actually speak of antichrist. i.e., ignore the context and content of scripture and apply our own "private interpretation." But when we allow God to define His own Word, we find nothing in scripture which makes the single man declaration. The coming antichrist is the loosing of the spirit of Satan with all lying signs and wonders (2nd Thessalonians  2:7-10) which works within unregenerate men. There were many antichrists or many men with the spirit of antichrist even in John's day, and when that spirit of Satan which was bound by Christ's cross is loosed, then will that spirit antichrist come to the full. Iniquity shall abound, and then shall be revealed Satan. This is the only consistent theological conclusion we can come to and have it be in total agreement with the whole of scripture.

Next: 1st John 2:22...RB

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Reply #65 by RB

1st John 2:22~"Who is a Liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that denieth the father and the Son."

Again, following that same definition of antichrist, God says anyone who denies Jesus is the Messiah, or that denieth the Father and the Son, Is Antichrist. That statement is both clear and concise. Are we to believe that no one except one single man in history has ever denied Jesus, or the father, thus qualifying him to be the antichrist? That is a ridiculous conclusion of course. But that is what we would have to conclude if we were to privately interpret the word antichrist as some theologians today do. One man just doesn't qualify according to scripture. In this verse, God's Word has again defined antichrist not as one man, but as anyone who denies the Father and the Son. In order to deny God they would have to have the spirit of Satan, the spirit of disobedience. How much clearer could this passage possibly tell us exactly who the antichrist is? Seriously, could it possibly be any plainer? antichrist is he who is a liar and denies that Jesus is the Christ, or denies the Father, or who denies the Son. But when a man denies God's Word, he truly denies Christ, the Word of God made flesh. I could go in-depth and show WHO is guilty of such, but that at the moment is not our aim, only that the antichrist is NOT one man, but many.

GB, you without question are found under this scripture....later, if you care for me to prove it.

1st John 2:4~"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him".

Here is that liar spoken of as the antichrist. It is that man who professes to be a Christian or follower of Christ, and yet has his own word in place of' the word of God. i.e., he professes that he knows Christ, yet denies His Word through his doctrine and godly living. God's conclusion of the matter is that this man is the liar. As is written, "Who is a Liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that denieth the father and the Son." One might then protest, 'but do they deny Christ verbally?' I would answer, "No, and nowhere in God's Word does it declare anyone has to deny Him verbally in order to qualify." On the contrary, God has made this abundantly clear.

Titus 1:16~"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate".

They're calling themselves Christian, but they are lying to themselves (See 1st John 2:4)~they won't keep His commandments, they are disobedient to the laws of God. They are the man of lawlessness. They are not true followers of Christ, but false ones. And this verse clearly tells us they deny Christ, not by verbally saying, "we deny Christ," but by their works and doctrines they deny Him. See 2nd Peter 2; Jude~And that is the illustration God is putting forth here. That there are many antichrists who deny Christ by their doctrines and actions, because their words professing Christ are empty words and their gospel is another other than the gospel of pure grace. As a tree is known by its fruits, a man is known by his works. So when they usurp authority of God's Word, while all the time professing that they are the body of Christ, they make themselves false or substitute Christs. A counterfeit of the true body.

If we are going to let God's Word define God's Word and not subject it to personal interpretation, we must conclude that anyone who denies Christ's gospel, is antichrist. And not according to a theologian's idea of what denying Christ is, but according to God's definition. It is written, we deny Christ by our works and doctrine. This is because He who denies the Word of God by their works, automatically denies Christ (Titus 1:16). Christ is the Word of God made flesh (John 1:14) THEREBY~ God manifested in human flesh. And again, in this very context of antichrist we can see that they were false prophets, denying Christ in works and doctrine because God declared right there that these antichrists sought to entice or lead the Church astray. i.e., there were those verbally denying Christ, they were those professing "Jesus" but a substitute another Jesus, with another spirit using another gospel~ An antichrist spirit at work under the Christian banner.

One more thought before moving on to the next scripture~I need to add this:  When folk preach/teach that there is coming or has come, a single antichrist, that takes the focus off of their sect, their leaders, etc. of whom the SCRIPTURES are clearly speaking about! Cannot folk see WHO would want folks to believe in a single antichrist? I do! Selah

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Reply #66 by RB Just a thought or two to add to the last post.

1st John 2:26~"These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you."

Who were these antichrists that sought to seduce or lead astray the Church? They are those who taught the substitute or antichrist, the false Christ. These weren't those literally saying there is no Christ in the flesh, they were those who in works denied the risen Christ by their false doctrine concerning him. It is a dead giveaway that all false Christs have one thing in common no matter what denomination they belong to. They make either themselves or their leaders the "authority" to rule in the Temple. And that, by any definition, is a false or substitute Christ~thereby, ANTICHRIST. There is only one true God and one ultimate authority in the Church. God cares for His Church, but He also warns that he who denies the word by false doctrine, denies God, and also shall be denied of God. Our works will tell whether or not we deny Christ, not our mouths.

Luke 12:7-9~"But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows. Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God".

We faithfully confess Christ before men by faithfully teaching THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY! Denial of Christ comes in many different forms, as does confession of Christ. When Jesus said, "when you do it to these, you have done it to Me," he was talking about the body of Christ (Matthew 25:40). When we serve the Church, we serve Christ, and when we neglect our commission, we have neglected Christ. And if we deny the word of God, we deny Christ, and when we keep the word of God, we show our love for Christ. These things are all intimately related. Conversely, when we have "not" done it unto the least of these, we have not done it unto Christ. The Church is one body. If we remove the authority of the word, then we substitute Christ, the head of the body. When man substitutes God's laws with lawlessness, then he has gone from the man of law of God, to the man of lawlessness/SIN. We are then serving and preaching another Jesus/Christ regardless of what we may think or say.

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Reply #67 by RB

1st John 4:2-3~"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that of antichrist, whereof you have heard that it should come, and even now already is it in the world."

To scripturally confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is to confess that God was manifest in the flesh per 1st Timothy 3:16.

Here we see again what we've shown before. These are contrasting spirits. The spirit of Satan, and the Spirit of God. And God calls Satan's spirit, that of antichrist. We see here the deciding factor what spirit we are of is to confess that Jesus Christ WAS GOD in human flesh! But does this mean that anyone who verbally confesses Christ is of God? Absolutely not. So even on the surface of it we know that this cannot simply mean literally or verbally confessing Christ. For it is self-evident that all types of false gospels and false prophets verbally confess Christ. But the truth becomes manifest when we understand that we confess Christ not with our lips, but with our DOCTRINE and WORKS of righteousness. As Jesus said, a tree is known by it's fruits. And likewise, we deny Him not with our lips, but with our doctrine and works. For even the devils confess Christ (Luke 4:34) verbally. And so we understand God defines terms more broadly than man does.

Once again, note that God did not say that the spirit of antichrist is not coming in the future as they'd heard, He says again that it was even then already in the world. In other words, again, the defining of antichrist as not one man, but a spirit working through men that was in the world even then. A spirit that could only be Satan, who though he was bound by the cross of Christ, was allowed to go about (though restrained) among men. It is only when that spirit is unrestrained or loosed in the future that he will be allowed to move men to abandon God's laws and rule in the Holy Temple as God. Rule as lawless man...the man OF SIN.

There are those theologians who protest this conclusion asking, how can antichrist be already in the world, and yet is to come in the future as a great iniquity loosed upon man? They insist that this is a contradiction. However, the protests are more self-serving than substantive. The answer of how this can be is not at all perplexing, nor is it difficult to understand. Antichrist is a spirit (as this verse indeed illustrates), not a man. In the first instance, he is Satan who indwells men from generation to generation and has done so from the beginning from Cain onward. But he was restrained (See 2nd Thessolonnias 2:7) or held back that this iniquity wouldn't abound, by the cross of Christ. The spirit of Satan was reserved in chains to be loosed in the future, the starting of a great tribulation period when he is. Thus, we read in that verse the language of the prophecy, "the coming of antichrist." Paul lived in the time when this lawless spirit was restrained, but clearly this spirit will be loosed. And God clearly says so.

2nd Thessalonians 2:6-10"And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work, only he who restraineth will restrain, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

Satan’s principal weapon is that of deception. Here we see God clearly telling us that this spirit Satan which was already at work in the world even then, would be revealed in the future, and that the iniquity or lawlessness was being restrained, that the man of sin (man of lawlessness) could not rule in God's Temple at that time. But in the future this iniquity that was restrained would be loosed and only THEN would that iniquity be unrestrained, and Satan revealed. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and lying signs and wonders. Man with the spirit of Satan is the man of lawlessness/SIN. In 2nd Thessalonians 2 (Just as in 1st John) the word of God says iniquity was 'already' at work in the world, and yet it was being restrained until a set time known only to God but the even elect do have eyes TO see when the church has been overtaken by this which spirit and can about know when it all started. That word translated 'letteth' is an old english word which simply means restrain~that is what the word signifies. It means to be restrained~so that the Church could be built over the last 2000 years.

God's declaration is that the mystery of iniquity was already at work (when 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 was written), yet was restrained. Nevertheless, some teachers curiously argue that, 'If iniquity was restrained at the cross, why is there so much evil in the world?' Or else they mock saying, 'iniquity must not have been held down very tightly, because it's sure loose in the world today.' First of all, despite their self-serving sarcasm, this is clearly what this verse says. It's not what man claims it says, it's what God actually says. We can believe it, or we can mock it, but we cannot deny it. Yes, iniquity was already at work in the world, nevertheless, it was being restrained until the time when He that restrained it is taken out of the way (midst). So there is no 'if's, and's, or but's,' that is exactly what God unambiguously says. And that's exactly what John means by, you have heard that antichrist should come, and even now was already at work in the world. Satan has been working in the world, and yet by the cross of Christ, he has been restrained of God. He has been conquered by the cross that his great desire for iniquity to abound (which would brings about the great tribulation period), could not happen then. Because it was 'restrained' by the power of Christ. But near the end of the world (which time I believe we are in that time), when the work of the cross is accomplished, then will God loose Satan from the bottomless pit. The Spirit of Christ is removed from the midst of the Churches as they depart from the faith and turn to the spirit of antichrist and Apostasy. Iniquity shall abound, the love of God grow cold, and the prophesy of antichrist coming shall come to the full. Just as both 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2, and revelation chapter 20 illustrates. That spirit of Satan must be loosed for a 'short period' near the end to usher in the return of the Lord. Just as we by the Spirit of God are the Kingdom of God, they by the spirit of Satan are the kingdom of the beast. A kingdom served by the false christs or antichrists.

In these verses of 1st John chapter 2 we have learned that antichrists' are wolves in sheep's clothing, and their primary target is Christians (making war with the saints and overcoming them per Revelation 13 and Daniel 7). John’s use of the term antichrist was to describe people associated with the Church who were teaching heresies to deceive or seduce the flock. We see this illustrated in his saying (1st John 2:26)~ "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you." They come from the visible Church and they are those who have fallen away from God and His authority, which is His most Holy word. They come with heresies to seduce the people of God, for the word of deception is the main weapon of satan, and without the whole armour of God, many will fall by that sword.

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Reply #68 by RB The fourth and final place in scripture where we read the word antichrist is in 2nd John chapter 1 where God speaks of these deceivers and tells us what is to be our response to them.

2nd John 1:7-10~"For many deceivers are entered into the world. who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist! Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:"

Clearly we can see from these verses that these people labeled antichrist were deceivers, false teachers of a substitute Christ who attempted to seduce the faithful that they fall away from the truth. We are not to give place to these antichrists spirits seducing the faithful. We are told not to wish them God speed, and we are not to fellowship with them because they are coming with heretical teachings to lure us away from the truth. We are to remain as far away from them as night is to day.

2nd Corinthians 6:15~"And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?"

These antichrists are not fellow brethren, nor are they simply misguided Christians (as some suppose). And God has commanded us to separate ourselves from them, and give them no place in the Church.

God defines the antichrist as any deceiver (liar) who denies that God was manifest in human flesh~per 1st Timothy 3:16. Many Jews literally denied Christ in the flesh, many others denied there was a resurrection, but these antichrists deny Him in doctrine and works while professing Him with the mouth. These are false teachers whose purpose is to snare the unwary to their vision of Jesus Christ. This is what an antichrist is. There is no scripture that defines him as a supernatural human, or a political leader, or a demon born of someone in need of an exorcism. God doesn't define him as a 'one world' ruler who is adept at computers or economics.. These are all the fanciful private, personal or political interpretations of men, but they have absolutely nothing to do with biblical hermeneutics or sound exegesis of the prophecy. Lawless man or sinful man, or man OF SIN is just as the name implies. Man who doesn't follow the laws of God, or the man of sin. It's not a mystery to the very elect, at least it should not be so. The very definition of sin is 'the transgression of the laws of God.' Therefore, the "man of sin" definition should be self-evident. The man of sin is thus not one particular man, but a sinful man in particular in the churches of Christ. But because of tradition, Church presupposition, worldliness, political climate, and the sloppy exegesis in the professing Churches of God, it is defined according to the best sellers, and the imaginations of men, rather than the Word of God.

The man of sin is literally the lawless man. There really is no confusing language in 2nd Thessalonians, the confusion comes in when man wants to read into scripture more than what is written there. The only mystery in Christendom is why so many people are deceived by the preposterous idea of a "one man" antichrist. Ultimately, even that is not a mystery if we understand the nature of man and his penchant for setting his eyes on the worldly for his answers, and not upon Christ. He will then 'naturally' see worldly things, instead of spiritual things every time that he does so.

    One caveat that we should pay particular attention to is that despite what some theologians teach, the actual language of the Bible is that of, "the man of sin," not a man of sin. And mark of the beast is the number "of man," not the number of a man~ i.e., the man of sin is contrasting the man of Satan whose character is of lawlessness (sin), with the man of God, whose character is of obedience to the law. e.g.,

Psalms 1:1-2~"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."

Here is the lawful man, as opposed to the lawless man. Here is the man of law as opposed to the man of lawlessness, or sin. These aren't phrases speaking about one Godly man or one Devil man, they are illustrations of the Character of the man of Satan, and the man of God. One Keeps God's commandments (obeys laws) and the other doesn't (is lawless)~one is faithful in handling the word of God, one is not so, but wrest and corrupt what he does not like to his "own" liking!

1st Timothy 6:11~"But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness."

Again:

2nd Corinthians 2:17~"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

The man of sin rising up in the temple is referring to the man opposed to the laws or commandments of God, not one devil man. The man of lawlessness or the man of sin illustrates a rising up of unlawfulness in the Churches, not in a literal temple building in the middle east.

Secondly, the widely misinterpreted 'little Horn' of Daniel chapter 8 represents the power (horns in scripture equate to/signify Power) of Satan as he is loosed in power a little season. We can see the correlation clearly. Little Horn (Daniel 8) means power for the little season that Satan is loosed (Revelation 20:3). Or as Revelation 17 says, the 10 horns receive POWER as kings, not then (when the book was written), but would receive it "one hour" (or a LITTLE SEASON) with the Beast that is loosed from the bottomless pit (Revelation 17:14,16). This is God's marvelous way of showing us the picture of the end times, and Satan's power to rule in it for a short time (little power = little horn) before Christ's second advent. Do not be deceived by self-serving theories about politics, economics, Israel, nations, power brokers, or literal marks on the skin. These symbolisms represent spiritual truths, just as Jesus throwing the buyers and sellers out of the Temple in His day did. The spiritual truth of the buyers and the sellers, is that they had made the House of the Lord a den of thieves. They had brought abomination into the place where God was supposed to be worship and were thus cast out. Likewise, in the Revelation 13 symbolism, it follows only those cast out in this judgment could buy and sell. Only those in servitude to Satan (marked by the beast) would be cast out. The rest are safe and secure from God's judgment. They could not buy and sell in the Temple. They were NOT welcome, but persecuted as trouble makers and having an unlove gospel limited to the very elect only. 

Some closing remarks later....RB

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Reply #69 by RB In closing this doctrine concerning the antichrist~The antichrist is the spirit Satan working within man, which has been here since Cain, but whom will abound, increase, or be loosed a short time before the Lord returns as "a judgment upon the harlot church" at which time this harlot church will make war against the saints of the Most High God, and will overcome them to a point they will NO LONGER be accepted in the temple of God, or, the churches in Mystery Babylon... A Church that has gone whoring after other gods in divorcing herself from her God. For it is written, judgment must begin at the house of God (1st Peter 4:17). And for this reason, the spirit Satan is loosed "by God" and will go forth and deceive the nations that they should believe his false teachings, and be damned. And God says the reason is that they would not receive the love of the truth of God's word ( See and ponder well~2nd Thessalonians 2:9-12).

The antichrist is now, and is in anyone who has the spirit of Satan dwelling within them that they become adversaries to God's word. For he who is an adversary to the word, is an adversary to Christ. The antichrist revealed in full in the end-time apostasy, is when Satan is unrestrained and these seduces will come against the camp of the saints in great spiritual warfare. By their opposition to the truth, they make themselves a truth in and of themselves, a substitute Christ. They worship an image of themselves (as those who built the tower to heaven) looking spiritually to being their own god, and their own authority. They are seeking to write their own destiny as they have fallen from the faith where they place their word as law instead of God's word. We see this today as every law of God is being attacked and is fallen in Church after Church around the world. And only those with the whole armour of God will endure unto the end at Christ's coming. The man of God, the man of law has taken a back seat to the man of Satan, the man of sin or lawlessness. These truths are spiritually discerned in the elect.

1st Timothy 4:1~"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, (Not RB or any other man that speaks on the behalf of God) that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

This is the coming of that spirit of antichrist where men depart from the faith and begin listening to the spirits of devils. This is the loosing of that spirit Satan that man becomes lawless and rules in the Churches instead of God. This is man taking a seat (ruling) in the Holy Temple (where he OUGHT NOT TO SIT) in place of God. i.e., he's become false or substitute Christ in denial of the truth. Old Testament examples show us that a woman who has abandoned her husband for another is seen as a harlot, and this act an Abomination which will bring her to desolation. God uses this as an illustration of the unfaithful Church. This abandoning God is taking place now as surely as it took place in Israel and led to her desolation and her "denial of Christ/God." And let the nay-sayers take note that Israel didn't deny the Messiah verbally. In point of fact, they believed fervently in their interpretation of the Messiah, and they waited for Him. But it was by their works and doctrine that they denied the very Christ whom they sought. And it is the same in our day. Professed Christians build up Churches with the names of the great Church fathers and prophets on their lips, but by their works and doctrine, they are the same as those who killed these very Church fathers and prophets. And this isn't the first time this has occurred, for biblical history reveals there is nothing new under the sun.

Matthew 23:29-32~"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers."

False prophets usually never know that they are false prophets because Satan's principal weapon is deception. Like those today looking for literal devil men, marks on the skin, and earthly reigns, Israel too looked for earthly reigns, wars, prosperity, and a Messiah after their own imaginations. They preached the Messiah and they were all looking forward to His coming, but they missed Him because of unbelief. Christ called them children of the Devil, and yet they all believed they were of God and served him. Let that be a lesson to all of us of Satan's power of deception. No, man doesn't have to verbally deny Christ to deny Christ. He who hath an ear, let him hear. Judgment (as then, so now) must begin at the House of God, and the judgment is the same. Desolation for their abominations in the Holy Temple. Finally, the buyers and sellers (those with the mark of the beast) who take a seat in the Temple, as if they were God, are cast out. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

As I've said many times in this message, Satan’s principal weapon is deception. Again and again, Christ has warned us of this. In practically every verse or chapter about the end times there is witness to it. This is because God so desires His people to be so familiar with the truth of this, that we will be able to recognize the 'SIGNS' of this counterfeit gospel by examining these passages, and these false teachers in light of the word of God. It all comes down to this. Will we remain faithful to the laws in the word of God when all those around us are falling away from God like branches in the hard wind?

Antichrist has no specific prophetic application to any particular human being whether living or dead, but to all men who in the spirit of Satan practice lawlessness in the Church. These are those who substitute their word for God's law to deceive the people. The personification of ageless rebellion, the spirit of antichrist is not the Pope, not Hitler, and not a Roman entity. He is not identifiable with one nation, one church, institution, or person. He can show up in the Reformed, Presbyterian or Baptist Church just as easily as he has in the Roman Catholic church and EOC. As long as the spirit of Satan struggles against Christ through his minions, the antichrist is at work deceiving the flock. The more God allows this spirit to prosper, the more these false prophets will assault the Church. Only when the Lord Jesus Christ returns, having put down all rule and authority to deliver up the kingdom to God, will our warfare against antichrist cease. Then comes the consummation and our true Sabbath of rest.

1st Corinthians 2:13~"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

We discern the antichrist by carefully comparing scripture with scripture. So who is antichrist? He is Satan, and he is the professing Christian with his spirit of disobedience, who is in opposition to Christ and in doctrine and works deny Him. He is not the body of Christ, but a substitute or false christ. There were many antichrists throughout the last days of the New Testament so his origin is not solely a present-day phenomenon. He is Satan who comes as an angel or messenger of light, and he is Satan's army, those whom he commands, who come as ministers of righteousness (See and consider: 2nd Cor.inthians 11:14-15). And it is NO great thing that this is so since the mystery of iniquity has been at work since the very beginning of time and has worked greater or less throughout this world's history ONLY to increase greatly at the very end as never before in the history of this world for the Devil will come down KNOWING that he has a short time to do his evil deeds. 

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