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Christian Interests => End Times Forum => Topic started by: TheWordIsOne on Fri Jan 03, 2020 - 18:39:37

Title: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: TheWordIsOne on Fri Jan 03, 2020 - 18:39:37
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

1 John 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming and is now already in the world. Past Present and Future!

2 Thessalonians 2:7-9 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way.

Matthew 24:24 For false Christ’s and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
2Th 2:3-12

Matthew 24:26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it.
Note: in the desert!' He is in the inner rooms!'
2 Thessalonians 2: 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working (Works) of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

2 Thessalonians 2: 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

1 John 3:8  He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.                             
For this purpose, the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: robycop3 on Tue Jan 21, 2020 - 10:43:27
  While there have been antichrists ever since Christ was here, the ultimate AC hasn't yet been made manifest. He is also known in Scripture as the "man of sin, son of perdition" (besides Judas), & "that wicked" & "the beast from the sea".
Title: Re: What is the name of the antichrist, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: RB on Wed Jan 22, 2020 - 04:34:31
While there have been antichrists ever since Christ was here, the ultimate AC hasn't yet been made manifest. He is also known in Scripture as the "man of sin, son of perdition" (besides Judas), & "that wicked" & "the beast from the sea".
I have been halfway reading some of the posts from all of you folks and thought about jumping in, maybe now is a good time to do so. Yes, the mystery of iniquity has been here since Cain~THEREBY, so has the man of sin, that wicked, and son (s) of perdition~for they are all CONNECTED and are part of the religion of "Mystery Babylon the great city under its king~
Quote from: John
Revelation 9:11~"And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."
The man of sin is just as its name declares: MAN of sin....man OF SIN~it is any and ALL men who profess the name of God, yet they dwell in the temple of God (his outward place of worship in this world be wherever that may be) yet they live UNDER THE POWER OF SIN~they stand in the temple of God where they OUGHT NOT to stand and declare that they are God, and they do this by rejecting certain truths and adding their own desired doctrines and commandments IN THE PLACE OF GOD'S!
Quote
Re:  What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name what is he to you?
He goes by many thousands of names: http://so4j.com/false-teachers  the list is many millions strong and growing daily! It is the time of GREAT TRIBULATION spoken of by Daniel, Christ, Paul, and John. It will take place at the end of the world JUST BEFORE the coming of Jesus Christ~it is the time of Jacob's trouble (the very elect, NOT the Jewish nation) when the TRUE BELIEVERS will:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
MAtthew 24:15,16 ".....see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Judaea is the PROFESSING churches of God throughout this world, and when the very elect SEE the MAN OF SIN ruling in these churches they will FLEE out of them, for THEN there shall be GREAT tribulation (spiritual in nature) the such the world has never seen, yea not even Jeremiah in his days when the OT church apostate from the true worship of God and God sent the Babylonians to destroy them JUST AS HE WILL DO AGAIN when he will allow the KINGS of MYSTERY BABYLON (this world system under the ruler of ITS KING) to destroy the religious part of Mysterty Babylon which is where the MAN OF SIN, that Wicked enemy of Christ sits and rules. The very elect will be delivered on that day when Jesus returns in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that obey not the true gospel of Jesus Christ and that loved not his precious word.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: lea on Wed Jan 22, 2020 - 11:41:21
RB,
So, are you planning to head to the mountains at that time?! ::cowboy::

2Thess.2:Verses 5-7. "Don't you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way"

(Paul had mentioned this power of lawlessness on other occasions (see 1 Th. 2:14-16; 1 Ti. 4:1). The Jews were revolting against Rome and rejecting the sacred practice of biblical Judaism. Some followers of Christ who remained zealous for the Temple system were departing from the new faith and falling back into the old ways. But behind it all was "the secret power of lawlessness." It was "already at work," there and then, but something and/or someone was holding the "man of sin" back at the time Paul wrote this letter (circa A.D. 51 - 52). Whatever that was, Paul reminded his first readers that they already knew its/his identity. So Paul didn't have to tell them. And he didn't.  Since they knew who or what it was, it could not possibly have been something or someone that would not exist for some nineteen or more centuries. But who or what was it?)
https://www.preteristarchive.com/Modern/2002_noe_man-of-sin.html
Title: Re: What is the name of the antichrist, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: RB on Thu Jan 23, 2020 - 06:04:38
RB, So, are you planning to head to the mountains at that time?!
Greetings Lea~not planning, but I have already and for the most part left back in and around the late seventies. Matthew 24 is to be understood by comparing scriptures with scriptures, not by reading Josephus and by using "extra-Biblical" materials written by bias historians, etc. Truth is hidden IN THE holy scriptures and is not found outside of them. I'm not (and refuse to do so) basing my faith on human speculation, but on thus saith the Lord God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.

Lea, fleeing unto the mountains means nothing more than withdrawing from false churches in Mystery Babylon, just as we are commanded and not only that, Jesus said that we should warn those entering in to NOT do so!
Quote from: Paul
2nd Timothy 3:1-4~"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Luke 21:21~"Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto."
Try to apply Matthew 24; Mark 13; or Luke 21 literally and it will NOT fit the big spiritual puzzle of the big eschatology picture concerning the latter days just before the coming of Jesus Christ. Matthew 24 is ALSO CONNECTED with Matthew 25 as ONE discourse spoken at the same setting speaking about the SAME TIME PERIOD of this earth's final days just before its destruction and these two chapters must not be divided if one truly desires to know the truth from the word of God. The second coming of Jesus Christ is without question the SUBJECT under consideration in BOTH chapters.
Quote from:  lea on: Yesterday at 11:41:21
(Paul had mentioned this power of lawlessness on other occasions (see 1 Th. 2:14-16; 1 Ti. 4:1). The Jews were revolting against Rome and rejecting the sacred practice of biblical Judaism. Some followers of Christ who remained zealous for the Temple system were departing from the new faith and falling back into the old ways. But behind it all was "the secret power of lawlessness." It was "already at work," there and then, but something and/or someone was holding the "man of sin" back at the time Paul wrote this letter (circa A.D. 51 - 52). Whatever that was, Paul reminded his first readers that they already knew its/his identity. So Paul didn't have to tell them. And he didn't.  Since they knew who or what it was, it could not possibly have been something or someone that would not exist for some nineteen or more centuries. But who or what was it?)
Pure speculation Lea, by those stepping outside of God's testimony and forcing their understanding into the word of God~by trusting in extra-biblical help instead of trusting God's word to give us the TRUTH that is hidden therein!
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Thu Jan 23, 2020 - 13:23:44
Hi RB,

I’m curious as to just what symbolic significance you would assign to the warning given about those women who would be pregnant or nursing children in those days of Great Tribulation.  According to your interpretation, how would being pregnant or nursing a child hinder a woman from leaving false doctrines or false teachers?

Also, why did Christ bring up an instruction for the disciples to pray that their flight from Judea and Jerusalem would not take place on the Sabbath, and not in the winter? 

According to your interpretation, if this “flight” is really about believers leaving false teachers and false doctrines, what difference would the winter cold during that Judean rainy season make, and what difference would the particular day of the week make in that symbolic “flight”?

Your interpretation that limits this “flight” from Judea and Jerusalem to only a symbolic sense doesn’t match with Christ’s specific directives in regard to it.

Also, in your  reply #2 above, you have timed the Great Tribulation to fall on the timeline just before Christ’s second coming at the end of the world and at the close of human history on this planet.  While I agree that the Great Tribulation was going to occur just prior to Christ’s second coming, it is IMPOSSIBLE for that period of Great Tribulation to occur at the close of human history. 

There HAD TO BE ongoing history for quite some time AFTER that Great Tribulation.  That is because the severity of that period of trouble was prophesied to be like no other BEFORE THAT TIME, but also like no other tribulation that would ever happen *AFTER* THAT TIME.  This required that a record of history AFTER the Great Tribulation would be available for humanity to compare to that period of the greatest tribulation that had ever occurred in the past , or that ever would  occur at any time following it. 

Both Daniel 12:1 and the gospel accounts of this “Great  Tribulation” confirm that ordinary continued human history on this planet would persist, following that unsurpassed period of trouble.  Regular times of ordinary tribulation throughout history would crop up after that.  However, none afterward would ever equal that of the “Great Tribulation”, which fell on Christ’s own generation - that generation of the weeping women and their children that were there on the road to Golgotha at Christ’s crucifixion.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: robycop3 on Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 00:48:18
  RB, you seemtabee just another Scripture-twister who gives certain passages new meanings which are NOT present in them. For instance, when Paul wrote "MAN of sin" he meant just THAT, not "men". Sure, there are plenty of men of sin - ALL of us! But Paul was referring to a certain one who will be the worst of all.
  And when Jesus said "Flee to the mountains", He meant JUST THAT! It has nothing to do with false religions.
  The LITERAL fulfillment of other prophecies shors the literalness of those yet to be fulfilled. Scripture shapes history, not vice versa, & history is the affirmation of Scripture.
  The antichrist/beast/man of sin, the great trib, & the glorious return of Jesus are still future.
Title: Re: What is the name of the antichrist, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: RB on Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 03:47:46
RB, you seemtabee just another Scripture-twister who gives certain passages new meanings which are NOT present in them.
Sir, not a "scripture-twister" as you think~maybe not fully enlightened by the Spirit of God, but I fear the God of heaven too much to twist "His Testimony" concerning truth that he has given unto us to believe, receive and teach. Maybe new meaning to you, but certainly not to those children of God whom he has enlightened to different degrees.
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #6 on: Today at 00:48:18
For instance, when Paul wrote "MAN of sin" he meant just THAT, not "men". Sure, there are plenty of men of sin - ALL of us!
Yes, he did mean just what he wrote. Sir, Man of sin is a collective noun meaning ALL MEN who live under the power of sin, according to God's definition of sin, not their definition of sin! When any uses the phrase man of war, they are not speaking of just ONE MAN, but all who participate in warfare. The same with the phrase the man of God, not speaking of a single individual, but all who come from God speaking his word unto the people.
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #6 on: Today at 00:48:18
But Paul was referring to a certain one who will be the worst of all.
A little bit of truth, with no full biblical knowledge. The mystery of iniquity has been at work since the fall of man, but the scriptures do reveal that before the coming of Jesus Christ to gather together his very elect, and to destroy the wicked that this world will experience a tribulation the like the world has never seen~this period of time is totally spiritual in nature, NOT with a sword, etc. This period of time is a little season known only to God when God withdraws his restraining power over Satan and all devils and allow them more freedom to deceive than in any other time in this world's history. So, yes, in one sense
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #6 on: Today at 00:48:18
But Paul was referring to a certain one who will be the worst of all.
But the one is truly millions of false prophets and followers. This is the true biblical warning from Matthew 24; 2nd Thessalonians 2; 1st John 2:18; and Daniel and John from the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I personally believe that the little season spoken of by John begun somewhere around the beginning of 1800 to where we are now.  All one needs to do is consider the many false cults that were born into this world after the 1800~(remember the mystery of iniquity has ALWAYS been at work, but restrain to a certain degree at different times in this world's history.) Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, SDA, Pentecostalism or Classical Pentecostalism and from them the wicked prosperity gospel thieves, etc., etc. This is nothing more than the fulfillment of Jesus' last warning before leaving this earth!
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #6 on: Today at 00:48:18
And when Jesus said "Flee to the mountains", He meant JUST THAT! It has nothing to do with false religions.
Prove me wrong if you can that is your right by posting, you saying what you did proves not one thing. I trust you and others know how to spot arrogant verses, confident people~I feel very confident that I can defend what I truly believe to be the truth of the word of God. If posting here, we all should be prepared to defend our beliefs and truly seek to help each other and expose false doctrine.

Title: Re: What is the name of the antichrist, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: RB on Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 06:26:35
Hi RB,

I’m curious as to just what symbolic significance you would assign to the warning given about those women who would be pregnant or nursing children in those days of Great Tribulation.  According to your interpretation, how would being pregnant or nursing a child hinder a woman from leaving false doctrines or false teachers?
Greetings 3 Resurrections~We have dealt with this before I believe~but for sake of time here's a great article written by Tony Warren around twenty-seven years ago: http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology/woman.html I overall agree with him on this one point. I truly cannot add much more than what Tony has written.
Quote from:  3 Resurrections on: Yesterday at 13:23:44
Also, why did Christ bring up an instruction for the disciples to pray that their flight from Judea and Jerusalem would not take place on the Sabbath, and not in the winter?

According to your interpretation, if this “flight” is really about believers leaving false teachers and false doctrines, what difference would the winter cold during that Judean rainy season make, and what difference would the particular day of the week make in that symbolic “flight”?

Your interpretation that limits this “flight” from Judea and Jerusalem to only a symbolic sense doesn’t match with Christ’s specific directives in regard to it.
I do not believe you and I have discussed this question before so I will give you my understanding of this question.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 24:20,21~"But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."
As the very elect (they alone have eyes to see and a heart that understands)  see the abomination of desolation (that which is abominable in God's holy eyes that HE WILL make desolate) standeth where it OUGHT TO STAND that shall be a fulfillment of such Scriptures as 2nd Timothy 3:1-4:5~then let them flee out of the midst of Judaea.  AS THEY ARE FLEEING and as they cry out against all of the abominations within the churches then Christ here gives THEM some warnings for them to make sure that their flight is NOT in the winter. What is winter for all of us? It is a season of fruitless, barren, and lifeless. As we are fleeing these false churches with their false prophets, we should be praying and making sure our OWN LIFE is NOT as their life IS.

Neither on the Sabbath day~Again, this warning would be USELESS if it was speaking of a Jewish Sabbath~for more than one reason. First NO apostle would ever allow themselves to be put back under the Jewish Sabbath days, and WHO CARES if one's life is in danger if this was speaking literal death, etc. they would flee to save their own life regardless of the law of the Sabbath as the Jews kept it.

I take these words from Christ to mean this and no more than this: "We should be praying that our own life is vigilant, LABORING in the work of the Lord and not taking our ease and resting and using out time for leisure"~there is NO OTHER sense that will flow with all other scriptures than this without perverting the word of God. Jesus certainly would not make his followers believe that forty years after his death, they would STILL be under the Jewish Sabbath days!

Consider my brother, that most professing Christians are living a very long sabbath day in the very heart of a LONG WINTER! Selah

I will consider your other questions later, the Lord willing. RB
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 08:19:12
What is the name of "THE" anti-Christ?

It would seem to me it could  point to one who

A. Finds it dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus.

" There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations."

2. Accepts a religious group who deny who Jesus actually was/is and count them worthy to enter into heaven.

"The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

III. Is a master of double talk as in ...

"Church must follow Jesus’ command to preach the Gospel to every person, otherwise it will not fulfill its mission of bearing witness to Christ"  WHILE AT THE SAME TIME SAYING  "Reuters: “Conversion is not your mission, ______ tells _______ in Morocco.”.

I have deliberately left out specifics on the man who says these things.

Yes, he has a name.

and

Yes, this one seemingly is a master of confusion.

and

Yes, if this one is not the prophetic anti-Christ  he certainly has an agenda known only to him

and, most important...

Yes, this man is very dangerous.

What is he to me?

Let me just paraphrase... The enemy of my friend is my enemy.
Title: Re: What is the name of the antichrist, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: RB on Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 08:44:48
Also, in your  reply #2 above, you have timed the Great Tribulation to fall on the timeline just before Christ’s second coming at the end of the world and at the close of human history on this planet.  While I agree that the Great Tribulation was going to occur just prior to Christ’s second coming, it is IMPOSSIBLE for that period of Great Tribulation to occur at the close of human history.

There HAD TO BE ongoing history for quite some time AFTER that Great Tribulation.  That is because the severity of that period of trouble was prophesied to be like no other BEFORE THAT TIME, but also like no other tribulation that would ever happen *AFTER* THAT TIME.  This required that a record of history AFTER the Great Tribulation would be available for humanity to compare to that period of the greatest tribulation that had ever occurred in the past , or that ever would  occur at any time following it.

Both Daniel 12:1 and the gospel accounts of this “Great  Tribulation” confirm that ordinary continued human history on this planet would persist, following that unsurpassed period of trouble.  Regular times of ordinary tribulation throughout history would crop up after that.  However, none afterward would ever equal that of the “Great Tribulation”, which fell on Christ’s own generation - that generation of the weeping women and their children that were there on the road to Golgotha at Christ’s crucifixion.
3 Resurrections~after reading this again, I have already, for the most part, answered this above when I said to robycop3:
Quote from: RB on: Today at 03:47:46
But the one is truly millions of false prophets and followers. This is the true biblical warning from Matthew 24; 2nd Thessalonians 2; 1st John 2:18; and Daniel and John from the Revelation of Jesus Christ. I personally believe that the little season spoken of by John begun somewhere around the beginning of 1800 to where we are now.  All one needs to do is consider the many false cults that were born into this world after the 1800~(remember the mystery of iniquity has ALWAYS been at work, but restrain to a certain degree at different times in this world's history.) Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, SDA, Pentecostalism or Classical Pentecostalism and from them the wicked prosperity gospel thieves, etc., etc. This is nothing more than the fulfillment of Jesus' last warning before leaving this earth!
Of course, we do not agree on Christ's comings~I believe in ONLY TWO literal comings of Christ, his birth and his second coming on the LAST DAY of this earth.







Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 10:19:00
No RB, that did not at all address the point I am making.

Here’s what we know for certain.  The “Great Tribulation” would never be duplicated at any time in history either prior to it, or subsequent to that period.  “...such as had not been since the beginning of the world until now, NOR EVER WILL BE.” (Matt. 24:21).  History as we know it would keep marching onward for humanity on this planet even after the “Great Tribulation”.

Here is what we also know for certain, and it’s from the exact same context in Matt. 24:29-31.  *IMMEDIATELY* AFTER that Great Tribulation in those days, “the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken.  And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING UPON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN with power and great glory, And he will send out his angels with a trumpet blast, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

This is describing a BODILY RESURRECTION at Christ’s coming for all the dead saints of God up to that point in time, IMMEDIATELY following the Great Tribulation.  Yet we know that scripture speaks of history CONTINUING *AFTER* that Great Tribulation and the bodily resurrection that is “IMMEDIATELY *AFTER* the tribulation of those days”. 

This great tribulation involved not only great PHYSICAL “distress in the land, and wrath upon this people” (the Jewish people who had rejected their Messiah), it also involved unsurpassed and unprecedented SPIRITUAL oppression during those days by the Devil and his angels.   These were working at a furious pace to deceive as many as possible in that “short time” and “little season” before Christ’s return. 

The mistake you are making RB, is that you think that the “LITTLE season” of Satan’s deceiving oppression would last up to a couple hundred years and counting.  Scripture knows of no such definition.  It defines even a “LONG season” as lasting only 40 years for the wilderness wanderings of the Israelites (Joshua 24:7).  If a “LONG season” only lasts for 40 years, then a “LITTLE season” is at the very least LESS THAN 40 YEARS of duration. 

And we know for certain that this “short time” and “little season” when the wrathful Devil was loosed had ALREADY BEGUN WHEN JOHN WAS WRITING REVELATION.  According to Rev. 12:12, John warned the inhabitants of the earth and the sea at that time that “the Devil IS COME DOWN UNTO YOU, (present tense for them) having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a SHORT TIME.”

You need to rethink your chronology of these events.  The only way that we can have Christ return for a resurrection of the saints “IMMEDIATELY AFTER” the Great Tribulation, and yet still have history continuing AFTER that time is for there to be yet another return of Christ with another resurrection for the saints in our future.  God will give us the same physical, bodily resurrection inheritance that the saints experienced back in AD 70, since God will not abandon a single one of His saints in the dust of the grave, from the First-fruits to the last-fruits.

Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: lea on Fri Jan 24, 2020 - 12:09:54
3R's, you said:
Quote
You need to rethink your chronology of these events.  The only way that we can have Christ return for a resurrection of the saints “IMMEDIATELY AFTER” the Great Tribulation, and yet still have history continuing AFTER that time is for there to be yet another return of Christ with another resurrection for the saints in our future.  God will give us the same physical, bodily resurrection inheritance that the saints experienced back in AD 70, since God will not abandon a single one of His saints in the dust of the grave, from the First-fruits to the last-fruits.

I agree with your first sentence. He does need to rethink his chronology of the Biblical predictions.

However, I wouldn't call the Resurrection of AD70 a bodily resurrection. Rather, it is a literal one. Those in hades were literally raised and there is no more hades!And we know that is the Spirit that returns to God to receive a NEW SPIRITUAL BODY IN HEAVEN. Physical refers to the flesh, and Scripture says otherwise. There is NO resurrection of the flesh as some incorrectly believe. We go to heaven now as soon as we die. I don't call our individual "raptures" when we die necessarily a "resurrection," as in another general resurrection in our future? Your last paragraph I disagree with. The rest of your post is, as always, spot on. ::tippinghat::

1Cor.15:44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Jan 25, 2020 - 07:44:53
  All this stuff about the antichrist having already come, or that Jesus has returned, is false. Jesus specifically warned us not to believe anyone who says, "He's there!" or "He's in the desert", etc. adding His retuen will be visible as lightning. He did NOT mention any other returns; just the one in His full glory & power.

  As for the OP:

   Yes, there have been many ACs since the real Christ was here, but the "beast/man of sin/that Wicked" hasn't yet come. thus, no one on earth knows his name yet.

  What is he to me ? he will be the most-evil man ever, making Hitler seem like a naughty toddler in comparison. He will oppose God, & everything else men worship as a god.

  And the great trib will come during his short reign. Revelation briefly outlines that trib in its telling of the judgments of the seals, trumpets, & bowls of wrath. All this is clearly put forth in Scripture.

  Sportzz Fanzz, please believe Scripture literally as possible ! yes, there's some symbolism in it, but it always stands for something literal. Don't believe the pie-in-the sky man-made fake news.

  And again, remember that Jesus specifically warned His immediate audience, AND US, to NOT believe any reports that He'd already returned, as there'd be no doubt of His return when it happens.

  And please remember - Your OWN meeting with Jesus is no further than YOUR NEXT HEARTBEAT! be ready at all times to meet Him unashamed, with nothing to try to hide. NO ONE is guaranteed tomorrow !
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: lea on Sat Jan 25, 2020 - 12:18:07
rc3 said,
Quote
  What is he to me ? he will be the most-evil man ever, making Hitler seem like a naughty toddler in comparison. He will oppose God, & everything else men worship as a god.

Good luck with that!  Something to hope for?  ::beatingdeadhorse::
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Sat Jan 25, 2020 - 15:47:55
Not trying to be picky, but can someone fix the title of this post?  I keep picturing the “Antz” movies when the title shows up...I confess to being a bit neurotic about spelling...

As for the name of this single individual who was only one of many anti-christs similar to himself who were present in John’s days - his name was “Menahem”.  It means “Comforter”, which was rather blasphemous in itself, considering what a war-monger this narcissistic Zealot leader actually was.  He was either a son or a grandson of the Zealot leader Judas the Galilean (mentioned by Dr. Gamaliel in Acts 5:37).  This is why Menahem, the “Man of Lawlessness” was also called the “Son of Destruction”, because he had descended from Judas the Galilean, the lawless Zealot who had likewise been involved in trying to destroy the Romans who controlled the nation of Israel.

Even Jesus Himself had been crucified between two of such “men of lawlessness” - Zealots who had taken part in an insurrection against Rome along with Barabbas.

The OP wrote about the ”LAST *HOUR*” when the single individual anti-christ would arise.  This “LAST *HOUR*” John wrote was already upon them in the time that I John was being written.  By that time, the “last DAYS” spoken about by Peter on the day of Pentecost in AD 33 had turned into the “last HOUR” by the time John was writing.  Meaning we are not presently waiting for this particular single anti-christ individual to appear in our days.  If we were, then that would mean that the “last HOUR” had continued to drag on for an illogical couple of millennia.  Which doesn’t make sense by any chronological consideration.

There was a purpose why these anti-christs were called “False Messiahs” in Matthew.  Daniel 9:24-27 had predicted long ago the exact year when the incarnate Messiah would show up in Israel.  The Pharisees, and even most of the people of Israel were expecting Him to appear around the year that John the Baptist started baptizing (Luke 3:15).  Which is why the Pharisees sent representatives to John asking him point-blank if he were the Messiah prophesied to come at that time (John 1:19-28).

Even the Samaritan woman at the well was aware that the Messiah was coming, and would tell them all things when He came.

The leaders of Israel ended up rejecting Jesus as the incarnate Son of God fulfillment for Daniel’s prophesied Messiah who would come in the flesh as the ”messenger of the covenant”.  That meant they had to hurry up and substitute their own false Christ/Messiah fulfillment of Daniel’s Messiah, and as close to Daniel’s prophesied AD 30 year as possible, in order to make their false claim believable for the people of Israel.

Many Zealot contenders for that prophesied Messiah role stepped forward in those first-century days, each of them eager to lead the nation to victory over the Romans, and establish themselves militarily as the leader of the known world.  Menahem in AD 66 at the very beginning of the Jewish-Roman War was the first who succeeded (briefly for a period of a few weeks) to present himself physically in Jerusalem’s temple as the “King of the Jews”, dressed in King Herod’s robes of state that he had stolen from Masada, Herod’s fortress.

The Man of Lawlessness that the Thessalonians knew was waiting in the wings back then was going to have “exalted HIMSELF above everything that was CALLED god”.  This does NOT say that he would succeed in getting many others to call him that - or that what he was elevating himself above actually WAS God.  Because there were many false christs at that time also claiming to be the Messiah, who were also calling themselves by that term, just like Menahem the Zealot had been doing.  These fellow-contenders for the Messiah role were the ones that Menahem was trying to exalt himself over.

Menahem’s exaltation of himself fizzled, almost as soon as he presented his claim in the temple as being the Messiah for Israel.  The “brightness of his coming” into a position of power was snuffed out, along with all Menahem’s supporting troops, by the son of the high priest Ananias - a high priest whom Menahem had murdered because he had “restrained” Menahem from achieving his goal of becoming the Messiah “King of Israel”. 

Ananias was the “restrainer” that the Thessalonians already knew about in II Thess. 2:6, because he was the high priest who had put the Apostle Paul on trial in Acts 23:2-3.  Ananias was not only the individual man “HE” that was presently restraining in II Thess. 2:7, but Ananias was also the institution of the high priesthood “WHAT” that was presently restraining II Thess. 2:6.

Menahem himself was tortured and murdered in turn by that high priest’s avenging son Eleazar, who had aspirations of becoming a false Messiah himself in AD 66.  These are past events that are not a threat hanging over our heads today.  We may still have those today who deny that Christ Jesus who came in the flesh was the AD 30 fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy, but they are not the fulfillment of that single individual “Son of Perdition” who Paul predicted would stand in the Jerusalem temple claiming to be the Messiah.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: robycop3 on Sat Jan 25, 2020 - 17:32:39
  NONE of those men was the ULTIMATE antichrist who is yet to come. He will rule most of the WHOLE WORLD, not just a little patch of Asia Minor.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: lea on Sat Jan 25, 2020 - 17:44:35
  NONE of those men was the ULTIMATE antichrist who is yet to come. He will rule most of the WHOLE WORLD, not just a little patch of Asia Minor.

Sounds like you're turned on imagining Satan's coming after you.

You shouldn't spit out vomit in public.   Jesus left His "peace. "

No one believes that violent garbage you and Satan try to tell people. 

Where's your "Good News?"
Title: Re: What is the name of the antichrist, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: RB on Sun Jan 26, 2020 - 03:18:46
Not trying to be picky, but can someone fix the title of this post?  I keep picturing the “Antz” movies when the title shows up...I confess to being a bit neurotic about spelling...
Same here~Alan, or Jaime please take note.

I'm reading through your post and it's giving me a headache! But let me kept going but doubt that I will even comment on such foolishness and extra-biblical babbling from the writings of Josephus and the rest of unbelieving and non-inspired writers. But in all fairness, I will ponder all posts carefully in respect of self-deceived people who need a conversion to the truth, thank God it is not regeneration, for that work is outside of our calling and beyond any man's power to help. I can appreciate your godliness while despising your eschatology supported and based on "extra-biblical sources" for even an attempt to make it believable.
Quote from: The apostle Paul
2nd Timothy 3:16,17~"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
The man of God, a collective noun (see reply #7 above, second point that was covered by me to robycop3)~ meaning ALL who preach/teach in the name of the God of heaven is perfect, TROUGHLY furnished from heaven to teach/preach any truth and needs not to step outside of the word of God in order to fill in the blank spaces or pieces of the spiritual puzzle in order to make the connection from scripture to scriptures before they cannot KNOW that they have the truth on any particular subject that may be under consideration.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: robycop3 on Sun Jan 26, 2020 - 06:01:39
Sounds like you're turned on imagining Satan's coming after you.

You shouldn't spit out vomit in public.   Jesus left His "peace. "

No one believes that violent garbage you and Satan try to tell people. 

Where's your "Good News?"

  You simply choose not to believe Scripture, in favor of believing the garbage from Preston, Gentry, etc. you don't know history too well, nor pay attention to world events.

  As I said, the creation of modern Israel (Judah) with Jerusalem as its capital, should be empirical evidence to all students of God's word & His prophecies, as well as Israel's repeated defeats of Egypt & her allies in battle. These are real events that should show everyone the literalness of God's prophecies.
Title: Re: What is the name of the antichrist, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: RB on Sun Jan 26, 2020 - 06:08:41
NONE of those men was the ULTIMATE antichrist who is yet to come. He will rule most of the WHOLE WORLD, not just a little patch of Asia Minor.
Sir, I have one question to ask you and it is this: "according to the word of God, WHICH comes FIRST, Christ, or antichrist?" The scripture is unmistakably clear concerning this one question~your answer will at least proves whether or not you are starting out on the right path to the truth on eschatology as it is taught in the word of God.
Title: Re: What is the name of the antichrist, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: RB on Sun Jan 26, 2020 - 06:31:09
You simply choose not to believe Scripture, in favor of believing the garbage from Preston, Gentry, etc. you don't know history too well, nor pay attention to world events.

  As I said, the creation of modern Israel (Judah) with Jerusalem as its capital, should be empirical evidence to all students of God's word & His prophecies, as well as Israel's repeated defeats of Egypt & her allies in battle. These are real events that should show everyone the literalness of God's prophecies.
While I reject  Preterism and half-baked Preterists doctrine known as Historicism~we also reject Premillianism that is causing Israel after the flesh to believe that they are God's chosen people while they live in total rejection of Jesus Christ, and New Testament theology that interprets their OT Scriptures. The religious leaders of the Premillennialism theology camp believe that if the US sends Israel a few of the Northrop Grumman B-2 Spirit bombers that we are doing God a service for his chosen people, which nothing could be farther from the truth!
Title: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, Does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Sun Jan 26, 2020 - 08:53:55
Hi RB,

As you have stated, fortunately it is not our correct knowledge of this kind of topic that affects our salvation.  There are actually weightier matters, which we are not to leave undone.  Such as a sincere regard for our fellow-believer’s welfare.  And I believe I read in one of your more recent comments that your sister had passed away?  As you know well enough, there is no better place to rest our heart’s concern for those of our family who have died than in the utterly righteous and merciful hands of our Savior.  The judge of all the earth will unfailingly do right, and He sees as man does not see.  And I know that your beloved grandson is still heavily on your mind, for whom many prayers are still going up by those on this forum.  Mine included. 

I certainly did not intend to give anyone a headache by a recitation of historical events as linked to scripture’s predictions.  But the study of the Zealot faction in Israel and how it relates to the “Man of Lawlessness” is not an extra-biblical one.  One of Christ’s disciples that He called to follow Him was a Zealot (Simon Zelotes).  Barabbas who “had done murder in the insurrection” and his two thief  collaborators were Zealots who had been captured and condemned to death for inciting revolt against Rome (Mark 15:7).

Scripture in Isaiah 53:9,12 prophesied that Christ would be numbered with the “Lawless” at His death, which was fulfilled when He was crucified between those two “Lawless” Zealot thieves.  The particular “Man of Lawlessness” that the Thessalonians were told was coming was also among this faction of these “Lawless” Zealots. 

This turbulent Zealot faction in Israel was the cause of the “division” that Christ said would henceforth divide families from His time and forward in the nation of Israel (Luke 12:51-53).  Pro-Romans just wanting to preserve the status quo would clash with anti-Roman rebellious sentiments, and the inevitable “brother against brother” war of “Gog” would finally break out between fellow-Israelites in AD 66.

And even though you do not acknowledge that Greek has any bearing on our interpretations of scripture, (which would astound the original KJV translators of your preferred version), the I John 2:18 verse about the Anti-christ who was coming uses the distinctive “ho” in front of the word “antichristos”, meaning that the term was referring to a very particular, singular individual - not a generic category.  And this single distinctive individual (“ho antichristos”)  is set in direct opposition to the “MANY anti-christs” who were already present in those days.

If this term was supposed to be a “collective noun” as you say, referring to any and all wicked men, then why would Paul have mentioned that this “collective noun” Man of Lawlessness was “COMING”?  Such a category of Men would have been a continually-ongoing reality - not a category that would soon be “COMING” on the scene for the Thessalonians, according to Paul.  This Man of Lawlessness was going to be “revealed”, which cannot be said of your typical generic category of wicked mankind, which has always been on obvious display for anyone honest enough to recognize mankind’s sinful proclivities.



And a side-note for robycop3:  you are mixing up and conflating your cast of characters from both Revelation and I John.  The Beast from the Sea in Rev. 13 is not the same identity as the single Anti-christ  / Man of Lawlessness of I John, which is never mentioned in Revelation at all. 

The single Anti-christ as well as the “many anti-christs” came out from AMONG the readers of I John 2:19 in their days.  “They went out FROM US, but they were not of us, for if they had been if us, they would no doubt have continued with us, but they went out that they might be manifested that they were not all of us.”

The Anti-christ was NOT described as coming out of the “Sea”, which scripture has always used as a reference to the pagan Gentile nations of the world (for one example, Isaiah 60:5).  You are ascribing a world-wide rule to the Anti-christ which scripture never said was going to be part of his resume, as it WAS with the Rev. 13 Sea Beast who had exercised control of the known world for 666 years as of the time John was writing Revelation.
Title: Re: What is the name of the antichrist, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: robycop3 on Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 01:20:46
Sir, I have one question to ask you and it is this: "according to the word of God, WHICH comes FIRST, Christ, or antichrist?" The scripture is unmistakably clear concerning this one question~your answer will at least proves whether or not you are starting out on the right path to the truth on eschatology as it is taught in the word of God.

  Naturally, Christ came first, but some antichrists made themselves soon as He began His ministry.

  But the ULTIMATE AC, who will be indwelt by Satan himself, has not yet been made manifest.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: robycop3 on Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 01:26:32
  3 Resurrections, a prince of the people that'll destroy Jerusalem after Daniel's time, (the Romans) the antichrist, the man of sin, "that Wicked", & the other son of perdition besides Iscariot, will all be one & the same man. Daniel, Paul, & Revelation all say he will reject God & anything else worshipped, & will proclaim himself to be God. And no one has controlled the world for 666 years. That's nonsense.
Title: Re: What is the name of the antichrist, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: RB on Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 04:56:17
Naturally, Christ came first, but some antichrists made themselves soon as He began His ministry.

  But the ULTIMATE AC, who will be indwelt by Satan himself, has not yet been made manifest.

 
You missed my question~AT the end of this dispensation which will happen FIRST, the appearing of the antichrist, OR, will Christ come and gather together his elect and then destroy the man of sin. 2nd Thessalonians chapters one and two are very clear which will come first and the order of the events before Christ's coming to gather his elect from the four winds of heaven. Paul said that three things will happen BEFORE the appearance of Jesus Christ and the destruction of the wicked.
Quote from: Paul's Timeline of Events leading up to the coming of Jesus Christ
2nd Thessalonians 2:1-12~Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
"They"is a pronoun being used to explain the collective nouns  MAN OF SIN, son of perdition, that Wicked, etc.!

So which come FIRST according to your understanding~Christ, or the man of sin? So much in these few scriptures, that pretty well lays the end-time events out in order for us. Also, these scriptures reveal who the man of sin is and the power under which the man of sin does his evil deeds. Second Thessalonians mirrors Matthews 24 perfectly. and John's writing in Revelation. The scriptures are their OWN INTERPRETER for us if we just believe them and trust them to give us God's truth for us to believe and beware of men who labor to deceive the very elect, which is impossible to do so completely, only partly is the best that men working under the power of Satan can do. Sad to say that we all have drunk poison, only to live to tell about it and try hard to keep others from doing so. Mark 16:18.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Selah!   
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 07:05:25
Hi robycop3,

Agreed that all these titles refer to the same individual man - the single “Anti-christ” rising out of the many present in John’s days, the “Son of Perdition /Destruction”, “That Wicked” or “That Lawless [one]”, and “That Man of Sin”.  But you are arbitrarily merging the identity of Daniel’s “Prince that shall COME” with these other titles, which can’t be done.

The very same context of Daniel 9:26 tells you the identity of that “Prince that shall COME”.  It’s “MESSIAH the Prince” in Daniel 9:25, who would COME to His own people at the ending of the 69th week, and who would be “cut off” afterward out of the land of the living at His crucifixion.

The “PEOPLE of the Prince that shall come” were the “holy people” whose power was “shattered” at the close of AD 70 (Daniel 12:7).  This is a common moniker for the people of Israel.  God often referred to them simply as “The People” (Gen. 49:10), or when speaking to Daniel, “Thy People” (Dan. 10:14, 12:1).  Example: the blessing that Moses gave to the children of Israel before his death in Deuteronomy33:3, 5. “Yeah, He loved THE PEOPLE; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words....And He was king in Jeshurun, when the heads of THE PEOPLE and the tribes of Israel were gathered together.”

These “PEOPLE” (ethnic Israelites) “of the Prince that shall come” (“Messiah the Prince”, who “came unto His own”) were the very ones who “destroyed the city and the sanctuary” by their own civil war strife in the city of Jerusalem and the nation during the AD 66-70 years. 

Rome was not anywhere present in the city of Jerusalem from the time that Cestius Gallus was defeated by the Zealots in the fall of AD 66 until Titus came at Passover week in AD 70.  In between that time, Rome’s strategy for taking down Jerusalem was to allow the warring Zealot factions within it to “eat their own”, thus weakening the city’s defenses. 

The Zealots with their plans of revolt against Rome originated primarily from “Galilee of the Gentiles”.  These were the very ones who were given 42 months to “tread under foot” the holy city Rev. 11:2, which they literally fulfilled.

The “end” of the city under Titus’ final assault came like a “flood”, just as Daniel 9:27 predicted.  But UNTIL that final end under the Romans, those desolations and abominations committed by the Zealots against their own people would “over spread” the city, up “until the consummation” when the city finally fell after the AD 70 arrival of the Roman armies.

This CIVIL strife in Judea - and Jerusalem in particular - between the competing Zealot factions in those first-century years is well-documented, both scripturally and historically.  Zechariah 12:6 and 14:13-14 are but two examples.  “In that day” (of the “siege both against Judah and Jerusalem”) “will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall DEVOUR ALL THE PEOPLE round about, on the right hand and the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.”  Even Judah, which was supposed to be the law-giver tribe, would fight at Jerusalem, when every mans hand would be against his neighbor’s in that day.

The Jews had become their own worst enemy at this point.  The “Man of Lawlessness” (Menahem) was only the first Zealot leader of Israel who fought his way to the top at the beginning of this suicidal AD 66-70 period when “every man’s sword shall be against his brother’s” (Ezekiel 38:21).  We can credit this suicidal mental condition in Judea to the hordes of unclean spirits who came to deceive the nation on a 7-fold, unprecedented scale at that time, just as Christ prophesied for that wicked generation in Matt. 12:43-45
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 07:49:24
Hi RB,

The particular “THEY” and “THEM” you are highlighting in II Thess. 2:10 is referring to those who are DECEIVED by the single man who was to be the DECEIVER.  You can’t have one without the other.  The single “Man of Sin” who came deceptively (like the master-deceiver Satan) would end up deceiving those that did not receive the love of the truth, and would end up perishing.

And this single man was not destroyed at the time of CHRIST’S coming - He was destroyed almost immediately at the time of HIS OWN DECEPTIVE COMING into power.  Read the rest of the whole sentence in II Thess. 2:8-9.  The only “coming” referred to in that context is the one that is “after the working of Satan...”.  Surely you don’t think that the Lord’s coming is characterized by lying deception?

This single “Man of Sin” was destroyed along with the brightness of HIS OWN deceptive coming into power.  The Lord consumed this single evil man at the same time he consumed the (evil) spirit of this man’s own (deceptive) mouth.  This Anti-christ / Man of Sin was a mere “flash in the pan”, as it were.  No sooner did he exalt himself in the Jerusalem Temple as the “King of the Jews” than he was destroyed as soon as the brightness of his coming was manifested.

It is mistake to give such vast, world-wide, supernatural capabilities to this individual, as many pre-mil disp. have done.  He was only a sign post.  As the FIRST leader in Israel to militarily present himself in Jerusalem’s temple (as a substitute “False Christ” in a supposed fulfillment of Daniel’s prophesied “Messiah the Prince”), this “Man of Sin” was only supposed to provide a time marker for the Thessalonians to recognize.  This event when the “Man of Sin” came briefly into power was supposed to alert them that Christ’s imminent return would soon arrive “IMMEDIATELY AFTER” the end of that Great Tribulation era - Matt. 24:29 - (which Great Tribulation had begun with that brief manifestation of the “Man of Sin”).   This was an encouragement for the Thessalonian saints to remain faithful - even unto death - since any persecuted saints would be bodily resurrected if they died before that day arrived in their near future.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: robycop3 on Mon Jan 27, 2020 - 11:17:10
  Hi, 3 R!

   The prince I was referring to is the one of Daniel 9:26, not the Messiah of V25.

   And the Romans definitely razed the temple, believing there was gold between its stones. They also finished razing the city, as a hot spot of insurrection. That fulfilled part of the prophecy of Dan. 9:26. the 'beast' will fulfill the rest.

  While the Zealots caused quite a bit of destruction, the Romans were the main destroyers in 70 AD.

 
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Tue Jan 28, 2020 - 13:40:32
Hey robycop3,

It was never going to be the “Prince” that destroyed the city and the Temple; it was the PEOPLE of that Prince that would be doing the actual destruction.

The Daniel 9:25 “Messiah the Prince” who would come after the 69th week of years was the SAME ONE as “The Prince that shall come” in Daniel 9:26. 

Did you never hear of the writing technique called “the rule of first mention”?  Google it if you aren’t sure, as I did.  A writer will first mention a particular term, and then shortly afterward, they will refer to the same original term again using “THE” as an article in front of that term.  As in this set of sentences for example:  “Robycop3 wrote a post called ‘It Never Happened’.  He repeated the theme of THE post in many other similar posts.”  The SAME POST is being referred back to, when it is mentioned that second time. 

The very same thing is done with Daniel 9:25 and 9:26.  In BOTH verses the author Daniel was referring to the same Prince, because he refers back to Him by calling Him “THE Prince that shall come” - i.e., the same “Messiah the Prince” mentioned just one verse earlier.

That “Messiah the Prince” who would come was also identified as the “HE” in Dan. 9:27 who would “confirm the covenant” with many for the last  70th week of years.  Christ was called “The Messenger of the Covenant” in Malachi 3:1.  Jesus said that He was sent primarily to this remnant of the “lost sheep of Israel” during His ministry. That New Covenant of the kingdom of God was confirmed with many ethnic Israelites who believed in Him, from the beginning of Christ’s miraculous ministry in AD 30 until God commissioned the apostle Paul in AD 37 to leave the Jerusalem Temple and devote his concentrated energies to the Gentiles instead (Acts 22:17-21).  From AD 30-37 for that last 70th week’s fulfillment.

As to your last point that Rome was the “main destroyer” of Jerusalem back then, that’s not quite correct.  Rome and Titus may have dealt the final finishing blows to the city, but they were NOT the ones “treading the holy city and the sanctuary underfoot” for those 42 months (Rev. 11:2).  Josephus and the former high priest Ananus ben Annas testified that the Zealot insurgents were the main cause of most of the desolations in Judea and Jerusalem - not Rome.

(Wars 4.3.2)  Those Zealots citizens of Judea who desired to go to war “got together in bodies, in order to rob the people of the country, insomuch that for the barbarity and iniquity, those of the same nation did in no way differ from the Romans; nay, it seemed to be a MUCH LIGHTER THING to be ruined by the ROMANS than by THEMSELVES.”


(Wars 4.3.3)  The “captains of these troops of robbers” who had crept into Jerusalem, Josephus said, “besides the seditions they raised, were otherwise THE DIRECT CAUSE OF THE CITY’ S DESTRUCTION ALSO; for as they were an unprofitable and useless multitude, they spend those provisions beforehand, which might otherwise have been sufficient for the fighting men.  Moreover, besides the bringing on of the war, THEY were the occasion of SEDITION AND FAMINE therein.”

In Wars 4.4.3-362, Ananus told the Idumeans invading Jerusalem that both the city and the temple itself were being “trampled upon by these WILD BEASTS BORN AMONG OURSELVES” - speaking of the Zealot factions that were then ravaging Jerusalem and preying upon the people.

All this Josephus said was in prophetic fulfillment of a “certain ancient oracle of those men,”  (Zechariah, Ezekiel, or Daniel) “that the city should then be taken and the sanctuary burnt, by right of war, when a sedition should invade the Jews, and THEIR OWN HAND SHOULD POLLUTE THE TEMPLE OF GOD.  Now, while these Zealots did not quite disbelieve these predictions, THEY MADE THEMSELVES THE INSTRUMENTS OF THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENT.”  (Wars 4.6.3).

I repeat, the people of Israel were their own worst enemy by the rampant civil strife among themselves at that period.  Rome used this knowledge to their advantage in gaining an easier victory over Jerusalem at the very end than they otherwise would have had, if civil warfare had not devastated the people and the city’s condition beforehand.

And for your earlier protest a couple comments back that 666 years is “nonsense” for a man to have world-wide reign over the known world?  This was Daniel’s *STATUE* OF A MAN, which was a representation of the 4 world-wide empires of Chaldea, the Medes and Persians, the Greeks, and finally the Romans. 

All four features of Daniel’s 4 beasts are present in the Rev. 13:2 Sea Beast, meaning that the composite biography of the Sea Beast was as old as the oldest empire mentioned (the lion feature of this Sea Beast).  That means the Sea Beast’s corporate biography started in 607 BC with the beginning of Daniel’s 70-year exile under Nebuchadnezzar.  It’s biography had lasted 666 years up to the year John was writing Revelation in late AD 59 to early AD 60.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: robycop3 on Wed Jan 29, 2020 - 01:26:32
  Jerusalem is still being trod underfoot by gentiles, as proven by the constant parade of Moslems to the Dome of the Rock & Al-Aqsa Mosque, as well as the parade of non-Jewish Christians to the various Christian shrines within the city - as well as its many Palestinian inhabitants.

And Jesus is not a prince of the Romans; He is a Jew by His human line.

  The prince of Dan. 9:26 is NOT Jesus. This prince will be the 'beast'.

  And I suggest you study the 70 AD destruction of J & the temple more-closely. They would NOT have been destroyed if not for the Romans. You're trying to make a point without any basis in fact.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Wed Jan 29, 2020 - 11:09:39
LOL, hey robycop3, I’ve done my best to devote the last 7 years to continual study of this period of history as related to the scriptures that they describe.  What more do you expect me to do?  What I have written regarding it amounts to a stack of paper more than a foot high and growing.

Notwithstanding the modern state of affairs in Jerusalem up until today, the distinct period of 42 MONTHS of the city AND THE SANCTUARY being trodden underfoot by the Gentiles in Rev. 11:2 was specifically fulfilled by the Zealot factions from the time they defeated Cestius Gallus’ legion in early October of AD 66 until Passover of AD 70 when Titus arrived at Jerusalem.  42 MONTHS EXACTLY.  Starting in AD 66 with the Zealot leader Menahem, the “Man of Lawlessness”.

You may wish to connect Rev. 11:2 to the multi-national presence of various countries in Jerusalem during modern times, but it can’t be done.  It is not at all relevant to Rev. 11:2, because there is no existing sanctuary in place with its courts being “trodden underfoot”, and hasn’t been since AD 70.  The current “Dome of the Rock” is planted on the platform where the massive Roman Antonia fortress once stood, and the “Wailing Wall” is nothing more than the base foundation wall of that Roman Antonia fortress.

(Actually, God has an ironic sense of humor by allowing Muslim control of that platform where His Son was once scourged by the Roman soldiers, with His blood spattering the stones.   Muslims demand that everyone remove their shoes before entering this site, as a token of reverence for what they consider holy ground.  Little do they know that they are unconsciously giving honor to the Son of God’s sufferings on that very site.)

As far as the “treading underfoot by the Gentiles” is concerned, at NO POINT in between these 42 months from AD 66-70 was Rome or its armies present anywhere in the city of Jerusalem.  One or another of the Zealot factions and their competing leaders were causing desolations in the city and the sanctuary during that ENTIRE period of 42 months.   Their seditious Zealot cause and its competing leaders originated mainly from “Galilee of the GENTILES” (meaning “nations”), with the “Man of Sin” (Menahem) descending from Judas the Galilean Zealot. 

The nation of Idumea also came to fight against the leaders of Jerusalem during this period of 42 months.  As did all the members of “Gog’s” armies (Simon bar Giora), whose vast army coming against Jerusalem in AD 69 was composed of men from a number of different nations.

These Zealot factions in Israel caused  the “overspreading of abominations” spoken of in Dan. 9:27, due to these particular groups of “THE PEOPLE of the Prince that shall come”.  Also known as “Messiah the Prince” of His OWN PEOPLE the Jews, that is, who “came unto His own, and His own received Him not”.   Even Pilate wrote an inscription above Christ’s head that He was “The King of the Jews”, which the Jewish leadership wanted to deny.

There is absolutely no mention of a “Beast” whatever in this Daniel 9:25-27 context as you are proposing.  The “Beast” identity in Daniel and Revelation represents a CORPORATE entity, such as an empire or a kingdom - not a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL man such as the Man of Sin was to be.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: robycop3 on Thu Jan 30, 2020 - 00:53:34
  Hi, 3R!

  God added details to His prophecy about the 'beast' over time. He first mentioned him to Daniel in Dan. 9:26, then, to Paul in 2 Thess. 2, & then, in the Revelation. He is ID'd as a Roman prince in Daniel, then, in 2 Thess. as a man who will proclaim himself to be God, & in Revelation as a powerful ruler who will be in power when Jesus returns.

  All those indications are of ONE MAN. No mention of any "corporate body" or group of people.

  Please bear that fact in mind, that scripture indicates ONE MAN, & to try to add new MEANINGS to Scripture is as sinful as trying to change its actual words.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Sat Feb 01, 2020 - 03:40:12
Hi robycop3,

Two points we agree on: God expanded details of revelation about the Fourth Beast from Daniel to Revelation, and that the “Man of Lawlessness” is considered to be a single individual. 

But these two are not the same identity.  Their origin was to come from two totally different sources.  Daniel’s Fourth Beast empire came out of the “Sea” of pagan Gentile nations (Rev 13:1 and Dan. 7:3).  The single Anti-christ individual (as well as the many anti-christs) came out from AMONG JOHN’S READERS (I John 2:19). 

Yours is a common interpretation to call the Sea Beast and the Anti-Christ the same thing, but actually there is no scripture foundation for this conflating of the two different identities.  No verse can be found that equates them as one and the same thing.

The use of the Beast imagery in Daniel and Revelation was ALWAYS connected to an EMPIRE or a KINGDOM (Chaldean, Medo-Persian, Greek, Roman, and Judean).  Individual men as kings are mentioned as incorporated PARTS of those empires or kingdoms.  In other words, the individual “heads” or “horns” were only individual PARTS of the Beast that they came out of.

The single individual “Man of Lawlessness” came at the beginning of the time period when the Judean Scarlet Beast kingdom appearing in the wilderness had newly risen again to existence in AD 66 by the Zealot uprising.  This independent kingdom nation of Israel (the Scarlet Beast of Rev. 17) which began minting its own currency as a sovereign nation that year was “ABOUT TO ARISE” in John’s days when he was writing Revelation in AD 59/60. 

This Scarlet Beast and everything that was part of it was also about to go into destruction soon in AD 70, according to Rev. 17:8.  “The beast which thou sawest was, and is not, and is ABOUT TO COME UP OUT OF THE ABYSS, AND INTO DESTRUCTION TO GO.”  Anything that was ABOUT TO GO INTO DESTRUCTION in John’s days has absolutely no threat for us today, almost 2,00 years later.  That also applies to anything that once was part of that Scarlet Beast’s time period, such as the single individual “Man of Lawlessness”. 
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: Choir Loft on Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 07:57:48
  While there have been antichrists ever since Christ was here, the ultimate AC hasn't yet been made manifest. He is also known in Scripture as the "man of sin, son of perdition" (besides Judas), & "that wicked" & "the beast from the sea".


THE ANTI-CHRIST HAS BEEN REVEALED.

All that is needed to identify the man is knowledge of history and correct Biblical interpretation.

The anti-Christ of Revelation 13 is the Pope, the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic church.

The name of the anti-Christ is also a number.

Traditional language of the Roman Catholic church is Latin.   Latin letters and also be transliterated as numbers.  Therefore the letters of the name of Pope John Paul II can be tallied as six hundred sixty-six.
(see chart of letters at:  http://remnantofgod.org/666.htm)

Revelation 13 states that a beast will arise out of the sea.

The context of the Bible ALWAYS represents a beast as a system, organization or nation.   Some scholars refer to it as a 'force' or 'trend'.
The beast is NOT a man.  It is a religious system.  See Revelation for a description of this parasitic religion - also described as the whore of Babylon.
 
Revelation 17 defines the sea as people or a general population of people.   Therefore the correct interpretation of Revelation 13 describes a religious system arising out of a population of people.
The small horn that exalts itself and which arises out of the beast is a religious leader that arises out of the religious system.

The small horn, which arises out of the beastly organization, exalts itself against God. 

The man, or leader, is said to commit blaspheme.  Biblical definition of blaspheme is to claim to be God.  Jesus was hated and persecuted by Jewish priests of His day because He (Jesus) claimed to be God.  The priests accused Jesus of blaspheme.  Therefore, when the Bible says the anti-Christ would commit blaspheme it tells us this religious leader would claim to be God on earth.  The quote that follows is an established statement of the Catholic church.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." - Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”

Revelation 13 states that the anti-Christ will suffer a fatal head wound which will later be healed.

In the year 1798 the military forces of Napoleon Bonaparte arrested Pope Pius VI and seized his property in Rome.  The Pope was imprisoned where he later died.  This is the fatal head wound.
In February of 1929, Italian dictator Benito Mussolini established the Vatican and returned the Pope to his authority.   Called the Lateran Treaty, 110 acres of land were gifted to the church so as to establish the authority and real estate of the Holy See.  The fatal head wound was healed.

Revelation also states that the anti-Christ would "wear out the saints" by means of persecution and murder.  

It is an historic fact that the church has been the greatest persecutor of Jews and saints of Christ in history.   Over the length of history it has been estimated that the Catholic church has been directly or indirectly responsible for over fifty million deaths due to religious persecution.  No Muslim leader or Communist nation can claim such an effusion of blood.

Let the facts speak for themselves.  If you seek the truth about anti-Christ, look no further than your history books, your newspaper and your Bible. 

There is a great deal more authentication provided in the Bible.  I recommend a thorough study of scripture and an interpretation based on the Bible, not popular myth and conjecture.

You won't find truth on television.  Even the commercials lie.  Not for nothing is it called show bu$iness.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Tue Feb 04, 2020 - 09:30:18
THE ANTI-CHRIST HAS BEEN REVEALED.

All that is needed to identify the man is knowledge of history and correct Biblical interpretation.

The anti-Christ of Revelation 13 is the Pope, the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic church.

The name of the anti-Christ is also a number.

Traditional language of the Roman Catholic church is Latin.   Latin letters and also be transliterated as numbers.  Therefore the letters of the name of Pope John Paul II can be tallied as six hundred sixty-six.
(see chart of letters at:  [url]http://remnantofgod.org/666.htm[/url])

Revelation 13 states that a beast will arise out of the sea.

The context of the Bible ALWAYS represents a beast as a system, organization or nation.   Some scholars refer to it as a 'force' or 'trend'.
The beast is NOT a man.  It is a religious system.  See Revelation for a description of this parasitic religion - also described as the whore of Babylon.
 
Revelation 17 defines the sea as people or a general population of people.   Therefore the correct interpretation of Revelation 13 describes a religious system arising out of a population of people.
The small horn that exalts itself and which arises out of the beast is a religious leader that arises out of the religious system.

The small horn, which arises out of the beastly organization, exalts itself against God. 

The man, or leader, is said to commit blaspheme.  Biblical definition of blaspheme is to claim to be God.  Jesus was hated and persecuted by Jewish priests of His day because He (Jesus) claimed to be God.  The priests accused Jesus of blaspheme.  Therefore, when the Bible says the anti-Christ would commit blaspheme it tells us this religious leader would claim to be God on earth.  The quote that follows is an established statement of the Catholic church.

"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." - Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous”

Revelation 13 states that the anti-Christ will suffer a fatal head wound which will later be healed.

In the year 1798 the military forces of Napoleon Bonaparte arrested Pope Pius VI and seized his property in Rome.  The Pope was imprisoned where he later died.  This is the fatal head wound.
In February of 1929, Italian dictator Benito Mussolini established the Vatican and returned the Pope to his authority.   Called the Lateran Treaty, 110 acres of land were gifted to the church so as to establish the authority and real estate of the Holy See.  The fatal head wound was healed.

Revelation also states that the anti-Christ would "wear out the saints" by means of persecution and murder.  

It is an historic fact that the church has been the greatest persecutor of Jews and saints of Christ in history.   Over the length of history it has been estimated that the Catholic church has been directly or indirectly responsible for over fifty million deaths due to religious persecution.  No Muslim leader or Communist nation can claim such an effusion of blood.

Let the facts speak for themselves.  If you seek the truth about anti-Christ, look no further than your history books, your newspaper and your Bible. 

There is a great deal more authentication provided in the Bible.  I recommend a thorough study of scripture and an interpretation based on the Bible, not popular myth and conjecture.

You won't find truth on television.  Even the commercials lie.  Not for nothing is it called show bu$iness.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft.....


Quote
   The anti-Christ of Revelation 13 is the Pope, the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic church.     


That is my belief and understanding.

But

Quote
         Therefore the letters of the name of Pope John Paul II can be tallied as six hundred sixty-six.   


If it is the person who ascends as Pope, the count should be based on his true, given, birth name.
 because in different languages his name as Pope would be would be spelled differently.

Example: John Paul in Latin is Johannes Paulus , putting the counting of the number of
his name away from 666

or, look at  Pope Frankie's birth name of  Jorge Mario Bergoglio

After all Francis in another language is... Latin: Franciscus,
Which would alter the number of his name.

As to the blaspheme end of things:

You first need to delve into the meaning of the word.  You claim only 1b below.While it is true, it is not total.

Mirriam Webster says

Definition of blasphemy
1a: the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God
accused of blasphemy
b: the act of claiming the attributes of a deity
for a mere man to suggest that he was … divine could only be viewed … as blasphemy
— John Bright †1889

2: irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

I used 1@ in my reply # 9 above when Frankie says

A. Finds it dangerous to have a personal relationship with Jesus.

" There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations."

2. Accepts a religious group who deny who Jesus actually was/is and count them worthy to enter into heaven.

"The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."

Cambridge dictionary

blaspheme
verb [ I or T ]
UK  /ˌblæsˈfiːm/ US  /ˌblæsˈfiːm/
 
to use offensive words or make statements that show no respect for God or religion


I will say you are on the right track however, you need further study on the subject and as you cautioned me before, make sure you provide biblical verses to shore up your facts and not just the projected thought of your self or some article you may be quoting. Especially in light of your suggestion to us to read and study for ourselves.

After all. We might need your help ::tippinghat:: ::shrug::

Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: robycop3 on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 01:21:48
Horse Feathers.

  The current pope isn'y popular enough to be a world ruler. While the AC will be one man, it won't be a pope. He will come outta "nowhere", as Napoleon & Hitler did.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Thu Feb 06, 2020 - 09:52:22
Horse Feathers.

  The current pope isn'y popular enough to be a world ruler. While the AC will be one man, it won't be a pope. He will come outta "nowhere", as Napoleon & Hitler did.

Napoleon did not sit on 7 hills or mountains or rise out of them. Nor did Hitler.

Revelation 17:9 King James Version (KJV)

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Catholic Online Bible

9 'This calls for shrewdness. The seven heads are the seven hills, on which the woman is sitting.

Greek~ English Interlinear

9. ὧδε       ὁ     νοῦς      ὁ            ἔχων     σοφίαν         αἱ        ἑπτὰ     κεφαλαὶ    ὄρη            εἰσίν    ἑπτὰ     ὅπου
   Here is  the   mind,  the one    having   wisdom.       The     seven     heads   mountains      are    seven   where

     ἡ       γυνὴ      κάθηται     ἐπ'     αὐτῶν
    the    woman      sits         on      them,

Church, as a collective term has always been referred to as she. Or in the feminine.

This term is most often used among Roman Catholics as Holy Mother Church. The Church is considered to be a mother to her members because she is the Bride of Christ, and all other churches have had their origin or derived from her.

Interesting article about Mother Church in WIKI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_church

Fact: Rome sits upon 7 hills ....

The woman of Rev 17:9 certainly can be thought of as "Mother Church". Very appropriately so.

Why are you so afraid to believe what is obvious to those who study Revelation?
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: robycop3 on Fri Feb 07, 2020 - 01:10:05
  I study Rev myself, likely more-closely than you, but I also study the other Scriptures pertaining to eschatology. As I said recently, Daniel, Paul, & Rev all point to ONE MAN, not a whole line of them.

  The woman sits on the beast & tries to control it, but the beast turns on her with fire, so says Rev. 17.

  Yes, there have been antichrists ever since Christ was here, but "the" penultimate AC (Satan is the ultimate AC) hasn't come yet.

  He will have a sidekick, the false prophet, and no pope has a deputy.

  besides, this man will be against God, & anything/anyone else who is worshipped as a god. He will declare himself to be God. No pope has done that.

  Seems the RCC will help him attain power, as it did Hitler, but he will turn on it as Hitler did - only this man will make Hitler seem as a naughty toddler in comparison.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Fri Feb 07, 2020 - 05:07:43
I study Rev myself, likely more-closely than you, but I also study the other Scriptures pertaining to eschatology.
So what? Truly what weight does that carry if one just repeats what others have preached before them. I'm speaking of ALL OF US, not just you and anyone who sees it differently than I do.  I have given myself to search these very truths out in all sincerity for almost fifty years. 3 Resurrection can account for that since he knows me personally. I started out as he did being schooled by some of the most powerful premillennialists of days gone by~and as a young believer held that position for about four to six years until I knew that it had holes in that so-called "fortress of faith" that left me very vulnerable to those who had the truth, so I sought the Lord and learned to trust only in his testimony and not in man's beliefs that many just blindly follow.  I learned that the SCRIPTURES will interpret THEMSELVES if we would TRUST THEM TO DO SO.
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #38 on: Today at 01:10:05
As I said recently, Daniel, Paul, & Rev all point to ONE MAN, not a whole line of them.
"The antichrist" as singular? ...No. A antichrist? Most certainly. For God's authoritative word declares that there are many antichrists.
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #38 on: Today at 01:10:05
The woman sits on the beast & tries to control it, but the beast turns on her with fire, so says Rev. 17.
The woman is NOT a single person, but represents ALL of the false religions of Mysterty Babylon which IS this world in which we live~See and understand Isaiah 13 the beginning of OT scriptures that will UNFOLD the Mystery of Babylon as God testifies of the truth concerning this mystery with all of its false cults and its commerce and entertainments, etc.
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #38 on: Today at 01:10:05
but the beast turns on her with fire, so says Rev. 17.
Sir, I AGREE that the EIGHTH king that should come WILL destroy the RELIGIOUS side of Mystery Babylon just before the coming of Jesus Christ~for they WILL look toward religion as the CAUSE of all of the world's problem and a hindrance to their FUTURE PEACE, and when they say PEACE and SAFETY, THEN sudden destruction will come upon the wicked, per Paul:
Quote from: Paul
1st Thessalonians 5:1-5~ "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
One of the three camps in this thread is NOT in darkness the other two are. I'm very convinced that my "Amill idealist" is the truth of the word of God. I reject Preteristism, the historic position, (which is nothing more than a half-baked preterist) Premillennialism~but I only see three positions presented in this thread (well, 3 Resurrection is "mostly" Preteristism, sightly different).
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #38 on: Today at 01:10:05
Yes, there have been antichrists ever since Christ was here, but "the" penultimate AC (Satan is the ultimate AC) hasn't come yet.
And never will, ONLY in the theology of a deceived premillennialist~even though could be a child of God saying such things.
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #38 on: Today at 01:10:05
  He will have a sidekick, the false prophet, and no pope has a deputy.
The pope, Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Jim Bakker and ten thousand MORE are a antichrist, which are the false prophets OF the beast. The Pope is NO MORE a antichrist than those that I just mentioned~ he's just the MOST POPULAR among them with the most followers because his religion is much easier to live as the world lives than the others! 
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #38 on: Today at 01:10:0
  besides, this man will be against God, & anything/anyone else who is worshipped as a god. He will declare himself to be God. No pope has done that.
Maybe you have study this subject, but sir you still have a ways to go! All of the false prophets past, present, and future, are against Christ in their doctrines, etc.~they exalt THEIR WORDS above the word of God, if you believe otherwise, then you have not taught the truth to the degree that it should be preached.
Quote from: robycop3 Reply #38 on: Today at 01:10:05
No pope has done that.
That pimp is the king of all false prophets.
Quote
Seems the RCC will help him attain power
Where sir have you been the last 1700 hundred years of Mystery Babylon's history? That whore is the biggest in the religion of Mystery Babylon~even to the envy of her little sister EOC!
Quote
but he will turn on it as Hitler did - only this man will make Hitler seem as a naughty toddler in comparison.
Personal opinions that have no scriptures to support that theory! FALSE RELIGION IS antichrist that should come in greater strength than ever in the history of Mystery Babylon!
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: TheWordIsOne on Thu Feb 13, 2020 - 21:38:39
greeting
The POPE, yes he this an Ant-Christ, like many others,  before him, but is not thee Ant-Christ, the POPE which Paul in 2 Thessalonians and Daniel 7:25

2 Thessalonians 2:5-8 (KJV) Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let until he is taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: And then shall that Wicked be revealed with the spirit of his mouth
Note: meaning at last day revealed with the spirit of his mouth, Christ?


The POPE is indwelled by a false spirit, the spirit of error, he is a false prophet only, but he is not the Wicked one, he is yet to come For

He does not have an actual name per-se but a?
the mystery of iniquity doth already work, meaning working his way to be revealed.


Daniel 7:25 (KJV) And he shall speak great words against the Highest, and shall wear out the saints of the Highest, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: robycop3 on Sun Feb 16, 2020 - 07:45:27
  "THE" antichrist won't be a pope. He will come outta 'nowhere', as Napoleon & Hitler did. Now, his sidekick, the false prophet, might be a pope or some other high RC official.

  Now, here's why the 'beast' won't be a pope - in Rev. 17, the harlot who tries to control the beast & his empire is unsuccessful & the beast turns on her. That harlot is the RCC, as history shows.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Sun Feb 16, 2020 - 08:48:11
"THE" antichrist won't be a pope. He will come outta 'nowhere', as Napoleon & Hitler did. Now, his sidekick, the false prophet, might be a pope or some other high RC official.

  Now, here's why the 'beast' won't be a pope - in Rev. 17, the harlot who tries to control the beast & his empire is unsuccessful & the beast turns on her. That harlot is the RCC, as history shows.
Sir, I made a post to you Reply #39 on: Fri Feb 07, 2020 - 05:07:43 ~which you have an opportunity to prove me wrong and your position biblical, which you chose not to do~so I must ask you.... "why"?

The pope and all before and after him have the antichrist spirit spoken of by Daniel, Christ, Paul, and John. There is NOT a future single person coming to be "The Antichrist"~that's heresy and it is being used to keep the majority of Christendom in total darkness (and unprepared) concerning much biblical truth concerning the last days of this world's history as prophesied by holy men God before us. 

Also, the harlot are "ALL" false cults with RCC and EOC as the oldest and largest along with the religion of Islam. The latter-day Charmastics with their prosperity gospel thieves are JUST AS guilty as any Pope that has ever lived since the days of the apostles. Jimmy Swaggart's followers are antichrist with their so-called revelation of the "message of the cross" ~something that he came up with in order to REINVENT him as one of the main figures in the religion of Mystery Babylon after his downfall into a terrible sin that was much worse than most are aware of. But it IS the same old lies that he has ever preached, he just repackeaged it and is working hard to make others believe that it's a NEW REVELATION given TO HIM for the world to hear!   Millions are following his lies and he is NOT alone but others are seeing the big $$$$$$$$$$$$ in this business of using the gospel (of course NOT the True Gospel, for only a few would heed that message!) as a source to get rich. 
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: lea on Wed Feb 19, 2020 - 14:40:04
The "antichrist" can NEVER be the Pope.

Sorry, but Catholics, if anything, are just as much "pro-Christ" as Protestants! And just as much orthodox! ::crackup::

You'll just have to consider who an antichrist was before AD70.  PS, John said there were many! ::crackup::

Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: robycop3 on Fri Feb 21, 2020 - 01:24:48
  Scripture doesn't mention "MEN of sin, sonS of perdition", etc. The antichrist will be ONE MAN, the most-evil human who ever lived, indwelt by Satan.
  And he will deny God, and anything/anyone else who's ever been worshipped, proclaiming himself to be God. Not very pope-like, is it?
  These facts are plainly in Scripture, so deny all you like.
  And, Lea, you are right! The AC will NOT be a pope !
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Fri Feb 21, 2020 - 06:27:41
Quote
Scripture doesn't mention "MEN of sin, sonS of perdition", etc.
Again the man of sin is used as a "collective noun" just like the term man of God, refers to all who speak on the behalf of God. Just like the word "jury"~just as the Judge will ask: Has the jury reached its verdict? He is not speaking of one person but ALL who are on the jury. There are many more examples that can easily be given to prove this~but the CONTEXT proves it beyond any reasonable doubt.
Quote from: Paul
2nd Thessalonians 2:10-12~And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
4WD can correct me if in error but I think it would be illogical to refer to the collective noun as a singular~so Paul used the words THEY and THEM in reference to the man of sin, etc.
Quote from:  robycop3 on: Today at 01:24:48
The antichrist will be ONE MAN, the most-evil human who ever lived, indwelt by Satan.
You can never prove that with the scriptures. You have been listening to men that are under a strong delusion, that has led you down the same path. Come to the thread where we will be dealing in length on this very subject: http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/theology/jesus-warnings-prophecies/msg1055156499/?topicseen#msg1055156499 
Quote from: robycop3 on: Today at 01:24:48
And he will deny God, and anything/anyone else who's ever been worshipped, proclaiming himself to be God. Not very pope-like, is it?
Sir, this is so far from the truth, as a MATTER OF TRUTH, he will be just the opposite of that that you are describing!
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 24:5~"For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."
Those with the spirit of antichrist shall shall come in abundance in the latter days of the last days of this world and will be saying that Jesus IS the Christ, yet it is another Jesus, another spirit with another gospel that makes man co-partners with Christ in his salvation from sin and condemnation, which is only some of their many corruptions of God's word.
Quote from: robycop3 on: Today at 01:24:48
These facts are plainly in Scripture, so deny all you like.
Sir, I reject science fiction eschatology of the premillennial camp~I was taught those lies when I first came to Christ almost fifty years ago and believed them for three to four years as I was beginning to search the scriptures only to find out that I had been deceived by the same people that you have been deceived by~maybe by more powerful voices than you have had the opportunity to hear personally. So, I know your doctrine as well if not better than you do, which puts you in a big disadvantage with me I would think.   
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Fri Feb 21, 2020 - 08:45:29
Hi RB,

The emphasis you are putting on the words “THEY” and “THEM” in II Thess. 2 applies to the many of those who are DECEIVED.  These words do not apply to the SINGLE individual DECEIVER of “them”, who is the single “Man of Lawlessness” or “Man of Sin”.

You can’t have one without the other.  A deceiver acts upon the group of the deceived.

And interestingly, in the Luke 21:8 text (compared to Matt. 24:5), this deceiver does NOT say “I AM CHRIST”.  What the deceiver says is “I AM” (ego eimi).   The word “Christ” is italicized, meaning it is inserted into the Luke 21:8 text. 

“Ego eimi” or “I AM” is a title that God claimed for Himself, ever since the days of Moses, when He told Moses to tell his people that “I AM hath sent you”.  The deceiver would be using this same title, thereby claiming to be the express image of God Himself revealed on earth. 

Many of Paul’s contemporaries (the “they” and “them” you are emphasizing from II Thess 2) would believe this single Anti-christ’s  “I AM” claim of being God the Messiah.  The SINGLE Anti-christ “Man of Sin” would come out from the group of MANY who had that same spirit of anti-christ. 

After all, the Jews were earnestly expecting the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophesied “Messiah the prince” around the AD 30 date.  When they rejected Jesus as being that Messiah, they began to look for a substitute “I AM” in those days, as close to AD 30 as possible, in order to fulfill the time limits of Daniel 9:25’s prophecy about the Messiah’s appearance on earth.  Many did claim to be this fulfillment of the Messiah back then in the first century, but the single Anti-Christ “Man of Sin” emerged as the first front-runner of the pack of contenders for this title who was able to get into the Jerusalem temple and there boldly claim to be Israel’s Messiah leader.

And lea is quite correct that the pope can NEVER be the Anti-christ.  The definition of the spirit of anti-Christ is to deny that Jesus Christ was the Son of God that has come in the flesh (I John 2:22 and 4:3).  That’s the sum total description of the spirit of an anti-christ.  The pope may be many things, but at the very least, he can NEVER be described as denying that Jesus Christ came in the flesh as the Son of the Father.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Fri Feb 21, 2020 - 10:46:06
  Scripture doesn't mention "MEN of sin, sonS of perdition", etc. The antichrist will be ONE MAN, the most-evil human who ever lived, indwelt by Satan.
  And he will deny God, and anything/anyone else who's ever been worshipped, proclaiming himself to be God. Not very pope-like, is it?
  These facts are plainly in Scripture, so deny all you like.
  And, Lea, you are right! The AC will NOT be a pope !


@robycop3 and @lea

I will excuse Lea from this post, only wanting to firm up some facts in her mind. She has a differing view then I do.

But you robycop3 . We are in the beginning of the end of the age. The true evilness that the antiChrist will bring forth
has only begun to surface. Everyday now, though, it will increase.

As Jesus said
Mathew 24:8 tells us ... All these are the beginning of sorrows.

It will wax worse and worse. As will the eventual ID of the AntiChrist....

Now...

..the POPE certainly can and most likely is as he is already showing signs of falling away from the true calling of his position as leader of the church.

He is taking baby steps.... he is masterful....

But not just this pope.... it has been for a long time.... but it was this one who has said many damaging things.

You are posting in Grace Centered Christian Forums. Do you understand the purpose here?

Before continuing you need to ask yourself what being a Christian is all about and who you put your faith in for your eternal existence once you are out of this mortal world.

Check out some of it ....

When the man Jesus walked the earth among the people he made a statement.

John 14:6 New King James Version (NKJV)

6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Did the man Jesus lie?

Do you think this is something the "Pope" would understand? Do you think this is something the Pope should understand?

They phrase it in the Catholic bible ... the one the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops  uses.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth  and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Seems very clear. Even in the Catholic bible.... Jesus is the only way.

In 2014........
Pope Francis said 

And was re-reported 
"July 2017 – At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church…”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good. There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations. These are, as the great Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us

https://www.catholicsarenotchristians.com/pope-francis-says-it-is-dangerous-and-harmful-to-have-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-christ/

This would be the same pope who in Feb 2019......

Pope Francis signs peace declaration on ‘Human Fraternity’ with Grand Imam

Catholics, Muslims and all who believe in God must work together to build a culture of love, peace and human fraternity, Pope Francis said in a joint statement he signed with Ahmed el-Tayeb, Grand Imam of al-Azhar, during an interreligious meeting in Abu Dhabi.

And while not necessarily bad in and of itself.... remember

The Catechism....

CCC - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 ... - Vatican
http://www.vatican.va › archive › ccc_css › archive › catechism

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day.

Furthering the Pope's general beliefs …

Pope Francis: Don’t be afraid that God has allowed different religions in the world
https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2019/04/03/pope-francis-dont-be-afraid-god-has-allowed-different-religions-world

Vatican Council and Papal Statements on Islam
 
Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964
“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”


These are not the thoughts of a leader(s) whose main goal should be leading the flock to Jesus and eternity hereafter with him. For Jesus said it is only through him.

Paul VI 

"Whence suffering and what purpose does it serve? ... The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. ... with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. ... faith (6)-are included in the same Patriarch's call, and likewise that the salvation of the Church ..."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html

NO.... The popes are men, same as you. They put their pants on one leg at a time...just like you.

So, yes.... the office of Pope very well, and most likely is or is in lockstep  with the AC no matter who is sitting in the Vatican
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Fri Feb 21, 2020 - 15:15:07
The emphasis you are putting on the words “THEY” and “THEM” in II Thess. 2 applies to the many of those who are DECEIVED. 
Greetings mysterty man~for those who have no clue as to why I said that it is because you know me personally, and we have been in each other's home, worshipped together at one time a few years back, and live just a few miles from each other~yet since I go by my name and you do not you have kept your identity from me, which as I have said.....that's very strange, and to be frank, and downright unchristian toward another brother, unless you have something to hide~but, hey, I'm transparent as every child of God should be.
Quote
John 18:19.20~"The high priest then asked Jesus of his disciples, and of his doctrine. Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing."
I will follow the path that Jesus walked in this world, you can follow whatever spirit that you think you should and we shall see which one Christ shall approve of in that day for sure he will judge our actions towards each other as far as our stewardship goes.
Quote from: 3 Resurrections on: Today at 08:45:29
The emphasis you are putting on the words “THEY” and “THEM” in II Thess. 2 applies to the many of those who are DECEIVED.
Actually it applies to "all", not many.
Quote from: 3 Resurrections on: Today at 08:45:29
These words do not apply to the SINGLE individual DECEIVER of “them”, who is the single “Man of Lawlessness” or “Man of Sin”.
Well, I never said that it did, the man OF SIN or MAN of sin is a collective noun speaking of ALL that live under the power of sin, ESPECIALLY SO as ruling in the temple of God, or, the outward professing places of worship throughout Mystery Babylon~thereby she prostitutes herself to the people of Mystery Babylon thus she is termed the HARLOT under the leadership of the millions of false prophets.
Quote from: 3 Resurrections on: Today at 08:45:29
You can’t have one without the other.  A deceiver acts upon the group of the deceived.
They are ONE and the SAME~much like when Christ said these words:
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 15:14~"Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."
You said:
Quote from: 3 Resurrections on: Today at 08:45:29
And interestingly, in the Luke 21:8 text (compared to Matt. 24:5), this deceiver does NOT say “I AM CHRIST”.  What the deceiver says is “I AM” (ego eimi).   The word “Christ” is italicized, meaning it is inserted into the Luke 21:8 text.
Your words are used with a subterfuge spirit, whether purposely I do not know, but I do not believe they are~ that much I'll give you, but no more than that. Italicized words are NEVER used in a way to change a verse, I have never seen that and I have even tested it many times over and every time it was helpful, and even more than that, NEEDFUL to even make sense, and generally borrowed from other like scriptures JUST AS LUKE 21:8 were from Matthew 24:5! Sir, NO DUMB FOOL would ever come professing something like that, for if he did, he would deceive NO ONE, except worse fools than himself!  But, if they come IN JESUS' name preaching Christ saying that he IS THE CHRIST, then they have the potential to deceive millions, even billions of followers just as RCC and EOC and Muslims, Baptist, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and hundreds of more cults have been successful doing~and you cannot do this WITHOUT preaching that Jesus is the Christ. This is exactly the meaning of such scriptures as Matthew 24:5, Mark and Luke's account.

I have a meeting, may come back later to finish or later tomorrow~I really owe you no answer until you reveal yourself to me, but I'm following Christ's example that he left for us so be thankful that I'm not being like you and I WOULD NOT, not even to an enemy, and I have a few of them.   
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Sat Feb 22, 2020 - 01:52:47
You'll just have to consider who an antichrist was before AD70.  during the days of the apostles John said there were many!
(Added by RB for discussion) Greetings Lea, I change your wording just a little to make it MORE biblical since 70 A.D. is truly not even a biblical consideration by the Spirit of God, men have added such doctrine, just as the wicked doctrine of a "secret rapture" and all that comes with that teaching! Neither of them are even taught in the scriptures, yet the way that many preach both you would think that they were taught.

Now let me put your quote back as you posted it and add a comment:
Quote from: Lea Reply #43 on: Wed Feb 19, 2020 - 14:40:04
The "antichrist" can NEVER be the Pope.

Sorry, but Catholics, if anything, are just as much "pro-Christ" as Protestants! And just as much orthodox! ::crackup::

You'll just have to consider who an antichrist was before AD70.  PS, John said there were many!
(Red highlight are mine~RB)Lea, you are correct, that there were MANY in the apostles days (and even before) and what Daniel, Christ, Paul, and John in order taught was that this SAME SPIRIT will come in GREAT MULTITUDES than EVER BEFORE in the latter days of this LAST day just before the coming of Jesus Christ  (the TRUE great tribulation period that will be strictly SPIRITUAL IN NATURE)  and when Christ shall come he will destroy this present world and all things therein INCLUDING the wicked in the lake of fire which will be THIS PRESENT WORLD as it shall melt with vehement heat and passed away just as the wicked shall do....therefore PERISH. In other words~the heaven and this earth as we know it shall be THE LAKE OF FIRE, for I know of no other place in the scriptures that could FIT that place that John spoke of, which he called the SECOND DEATH for all who reject and hated God, his word and above all, his Darling Son in whom he was well pleased with.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Sat Feb 22, 2020 - 05:53:13
When they rejected Jesus as being that Messiah, they began to look for a substitute “I AM” in those days, as close to AD 30 as possible
That's pure speculation on your part~besides, even those few that believe in a coming Messiah, their understanding was so little that even the apostles after three years with Christ teaching them still did not understand that it was imperative that Christ was to FIRST DIE for their sins and had to be resurrected for their justification~even though they had such scriptures as Isaiah 53 and others. A few handfuls understood these truths, but not many.
Quote from: The HOLY GHOST
Matthew 16:21,22~"From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day. Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee."
You added:
Quote from: 3 Resurrections Reply #46 on: Yesterday at 08:45:29
Many did claim to be this fulfillment of the Messiah back then in the first century, but the single Anti-Christ “Man of Sin” emerged as the first front-runner of the pack of contenders for this title who was able to get into the Jerusalem temple and there boldly claim to be Israel’s Messiah leader.
Again, pure speculation and wishful thinking fueled by you seeking truth outside of the word of God in the writing of the unbeliever...... Josephus. This is what trusting in "extra-Biblical" sources leads folks in believing when children should be getting their food from their Father's table, not from a stranger's table who is out to use deception in order to get one to eat their poison!

I must run to get my dying grandson one of his favorite drink at Starbuck's~"Mocha Cookie Crumble Frappuccino".....Whatever he ask for at this point I go and do it cheerfully with a broken heart knowing his days are very, very few. 

I want to come back and address your last point....later. RB
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: GB on Sat Feb 22, 2020 - 06:38:57
The "antichrist" can NEVER be the Pope.

Sorry, but Catholics, if anything, are just as much "pro-Christ" as Protestants! And just as much orthodox! ::crackup::

You'll just have to consider who an antichrist was before AD70.  PS, John said there were many! ::crackup::

Hi Lea,

Wouldn't the Pharisees be "anti-Christ"?

2 Cor. 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Would these not be "Anti-Christ's"?

I think folks should think about this a little.

Matt. 23:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Are we to believe that the "many" Anti-Christ's are only those that say Jesus wasn't the God of the OT?

What about folks who teach lies about the Christ?

What about religious men who promote another Christ, a different one? An image of Him in the likeness of some  man. A Christ who didn't create the Commandments, who doesn't write them on the hearts of the truly repentant.

I think it is a deception to believe we are waiting for some popular religious man, who calls himself the Christ, to show up and deceive the religious masses. In Jesus' time the religious masses were already deceived. Not that there wasn't a God, but that their religion was more precious than the Word of God. Is this also not the case today?

This is good stuff to talk about if we can do so in an unbiased way. Think about this. When asked about the end times Jesus warned of one thing. He didn't say to take heed of Islam, or Jews, or Atheist's. Of all the things HE could have said to take heed of, HE chose one. Men who come in HIS Name.

Great topic, good discussion.


Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Sat Feb 22, 2020 - 08:15:38
And lea is quite correct that the pope can NEVER be the Anti-christ. 
Sorry, but she is not even close, even though she may love and fear God, on this doctrine she is in serious error.

Who is the Antichrist? Who is the man of sin?Or we could ask~who or what is the abomination of desolation? They all are ONE and the same, without controversy the scriptures will support this truth. 

A great many people think that the prophesy of Antichrist details the future coming of Satan incarnate, or of a single individual that will be ruled or indwelt by Him. Others believe that Antichrist will be a world ruler, a leader that will be able to deceive by his amiable style or cunning politics. Still others speculate that the Bible does not specifically say who the Antichrist is or where he will come from, just that he will be revealed. None of these ideas are true. The prophecy of Antichrist is quite possibly the most misunderstood prophecy in all of Christendom. And this is no doubt exacerbated by Premillennialism (one of the dominant doctrines in Mystery Babylon's religious sector) confusing the issue with private interpretations of chapters like Daniel 7-9 (the prophecy of the little horn), and 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 (the man of sin). Typically and indeed inexplicably, these Theologians tend to either totally ignore or place very little emphasis on both the actual word, and the very passages in scripture where it is found. One is left to wonder how a Christian Biblically defines the Antichrist without carefully considering both the word itself, and all of the pertinent verses where it is actually found? To ignore these things would seem to defy logic, reason and a sound biblical hermeneutic. For in order to find out what God is illustrating by His use of the word Antichrist, it is self evident that we must study the passages explicitly talking about Antichrist, and let the scriptures themselves define and interpret its meaning. If God is the author of Holy Canon, then it will be God (rather than man) who must define the term. A sound exegesis is practiced in not following what we might think, assume, or surmise, but following what the scriptures themselves actually declare concerning the matter.

We will come back and will look first at the word Antichrist itself, and then we will consider circumspectly (in context) all of the passages in scripture where this word is used. In doing so, we hope to shed some light on this most misunderstood subject concerning "who is the Antichrist." We will endeavor to cast off all speculation and personal or private interpretations about who is the man of sin. Does it concern a confederacy of ten nations, or the spawn of the cursed? If we receive our interpretations from within the testimony of God Himself, we will clearly see the identity of the Antichrist. In leaning not to our own understanding, but receiving what the Bible alone has to say about this issue, this is the only way that Christians are going to come to any truth of who is the Antichrist.

More to come....RB
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Sat Feb 22, 2020 - 09:18:37
Hi RB,

Yes, our grandchildren can get a stranglehold on our hearts.  Even 15 years and more after losing one of mine who never drew breath on this earth, the tears still flow for that most precious child.  God give you strength, brother, and make even these days a blessing for you and yours.  I hope perhaps that the give-and-take on these forum discussions can be a bit of temporary relief from some of your grief-stricken thoughts in the meantime.

You mentioned that it was “pure speculation” that the Jews were anticipating the arrival of the Messiah in AD 30.  This is not so.  Luke 3:15 says otherwise.  “And as the people were IN EXPECTATION, and ALL MEN mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not...”. This was at the very beginning of John’s ministry of baptism, around the 15th year of emperor Tiberius (Luke 3:1).  God expects you to know that date.

The Pharisees were well aware of the beginning year of Daniel’s 70th week when “Messiah the Prince” would be manifested to their nation.  That’s why they sent a delegation of priests and Levites to John in John 1:19, asking if John were the Christ that Daniel had prophesied about.  Their expectation and examination of John was in the year AD 30, since Jesus’ first Passover visit during the start of His public ministry that year was 46 years after Herod’s temple construction began (John 2:20) in 17 BC.  God expects you to know this date.

Once John the Baptist had presented Jesus to Andrew as the “Lamb of God”, Andrew then sought out his brother Simon and told him, “ ‘We have found the MESSIAS,’ which is, being interpreted, the Christ.” (John 1:41). This shows that Andrew and his brother Simon had been on the alert and seeking the manifestation of Daniel 9’s prophesied Messiah at that time.

Even the Samaritan woman at the well was on the alert to be looking for the Messiah.  She told Jesus in John 4:25, “I know that MESSIAS cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.”  Once Jesus introduced Himself as being that very Messiah, she immediately went back to the men of her city and announced this news - “Is not this the Christ?” -  to these men who apparently had also been expecting the arrival of the Messiah at that time, as well as her.

RB, I only quote all these examples so that you can see that these first-century Jews knew their Daniel scriptures very well, and were paying attention to the exact year when that 70th “week” of years would begin in AD 30.  Though many of the Jews heard Jesus gladly, generally speaking, Jesus “came unto His own, and His own received him not” (John 1:11).  The rejection was official, coming from the priesthood leadership, who did not even want Pilate’s sign hung over a crucified Jesus, stating that Jesus was the King of the Jews (John 19:19-21). 

If you were the Pharisees and the high priests who had just rejected the man Jesus as being the Messiah Daniel had foretold, you needed to replace Him with another individual who would try to fulfill that Daniel 9 prophecy.  They needed to do this AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE to Daniel’s prophesied AD 30 year in order for the substituted, fake Messiah (the “false Christ’s” of Matthew 24:24 or “anti-christs” of I John 2:18) to be believable for the Jewish people who also knew the year that the Messiah was to be manifested. 

The Pharisees could fudge the AD 30 date a little bit, but not by much and still get away with the deception.  This was the “strong delusion, that they should believe a lie” spoken about in II Thess. 2:11.  A lie perpetrated by the single individual Anti-christ “Man of Lawlessness”, claiming to be that Daniel 9:25 Messiah fulfillment.

RB, this Matthew 24:24 prediction of the “FALSE CHRISTS” (pseudochristoi) tells me that these individuals would come falsely pretending TO *BE* THE MESSIAH - not teaching that Jesus was the Christ, which is absolute truth - not a lie.  The message that any anti-christ taught was that Jesus was not God’s Son come in the flesh already back in the prophesied AD 30 year.  They were claiming that prophesied identity for themselves. 

And yes, we do have a scriptural example of one Egyptian who had already tried to establish himself as a military Messiah leader of the nation of Israel. In Acts 21:38, the chief captain asked a chained-up Paul, “Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers?”  (This insurrection took place around AD 55).  That “wilderness” setting for the “false christs” gathering followers together Jesus had already warned the disciples about in Matthew 24:26.  “Wherefore if they shall say unto you Behold He is in the DESERT; go not forth...”.  Jesus had that Egyptian “false christ” in mind when He spoke those words of warning to His disciples.

RB, you are trying to kidnap the contemporary first-century fulfillment of these anti-christs’ activities and transplant them into our generation.  These multiple anti-christs John said had ALREADY COME OUT FROM AMONG THOSE HE WAS WRITING TO IN THAT *LAST HOUR* (John 2:18-19).  You are almost 2,000 years too late getting the news bulletin.

Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: seekingHiswisdom on Sat Feb 22, 2020 - 09:39:59

I think it is a deception to believe we are waiting for some popular religious man, who calls himself the Christ, to show up and deceive the religious masses. In Jesus' time the religious masses were already deceived. Not that there wasn't a God, but that their religion was more precious than the Word of God. Is this also not the case today?

This is good stuff to talk about if we can do so in an unbiased way. Think about this. When asked about the end times Jesus warned of one thing. He didn't say to take heed of Islam, or Jews, or Atheist's. Of all the things HE could have said to take heed of, HE chose one. Men who come in HIS Name.

Great topic, good discussion.

I agree, to a degree, with what you replied.... but not this.

 I, for one, am waiting for "the" antiChrist, whom I believe will not be a popup minister claiming to be Christ, or even a deceiver with such claims.

We had that... not terribly long ago.....

"“I represent the messiah.” Farrakhan said, again referencing Jesus. “I represent the Jesus and I am that Jesus. If I am not, take my life.”

Louis Farrakhan ~ https://www.jpost.com/OMG/Farrakhan-I-represent-the-Jesus-that-saves-585978

And he is not alone in the "cults" of this world.

No, this one who is coming... he will be the great deceiver. Where possible deceiving the very elect. (Mathew 24:24)

Are you aware that the idea of Anti-Christ or the Antichrist is not claimed only by Christian believers?

It is also within the Islamic faith. In Islamic eschatology, Al-Masih ad-Dajjal is an anti-messiah figure ... similar to anti Christ... that will deceive humanity before the second coming of Jesus.

While we know that Islam does not believe in Jesus as savior, but only as a great prophet...

But from 2 world religions... Christianity and Muslim.... it cannot escape our common ancestor... without whom we would not have evolved and neither would they. Abraham ( with Hagar) ((them)) and Abraham ( with Sarah) ((us))

So do you not find it interesting that through the ages of the 2 religions clashing that their would be this commonality of
anti-christ or as they say.anti-messiah figure?

Now their beliefs are so anti Jesus that one naturally can believe they are all anti-Christs.... While there is a definite
similarity, it stops.

Muslim end times beliefs are

In the final days, Muslims hold, Jesus indeed comes again.

This is the Muslim version of Jesus – Isa Al-Maseeh, who just happens to fit the description of the “false prophet” described in Revelation as performing miraculous signs and being worshipped.

This Muslim “Isa”  is just one of the last in a series of prophets, all of whom testified to the future coming of Muhammad and God’s final revelation. 

At the end, Isa Al-Maseeh will descend and destroy all crosses,  and kill all Christians and others who refuse to convert to Islam. (Much as the Muslim extremists wage Jihad against us today)

There will also be an anti-Christ – Ad-Dajjal in the Muslim version.

He will claim to be the Messiah, but is a liar. He will become the charismatic leader of the Jews, followed by Jews and women, but will finally be slaughtered by the Muslim Jesus.

The final apocalyptic battles will take place north of Israel in the land of Magog (Rev. 20:7) during the reign of the final caliphate, the Mahdi (the rough Muslim equivalent of the pope),  who will rule over all of Islam.

  The Mahdi will wear a crown and ride a white horse, matching the description in Revelation 6:2 And with the help of Isa Al-Maseeh ...the Muslim Jesus... will defeat Dajjal ...the Muslim anti-Christ..., resulting in a world where Islam finally is the only religion, and all other religions have been banished from the face of the earth.

Did you catch that... their Mahdi is the Muslim equivalent of the POPE. And this is a synopsis of their endtimes.

As to what Christians call... "The anti Christ.

I believe what I read and study in John and the book of Revelation. I come with the following conclusions.

One can have a spirit of antiChrist and not be "THE" antiChrist of end times.

 The anti-Christ...  is a deceiver who denies that there can be any relationship between Father and Son in God: “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?

Remember.... It was the current Pope Francis who was re-reported ( as I posted above)
And was re-reported
"July 2017 – At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church…”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good. There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations. These are, as the great Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us

https://www.catholicsarenotchristians.com/pope-francis-says-it-is-dangerous-and-harmful-to-have-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-christ/

(And while I am not naming Pope Francis as the "Antichrist" this is among many baby steps in the end times leading that church into a great falling away._

continuing
He is anti-Christ who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” (1 John 2:22-23)

First you need to create a separation from people clinging to Jesus in personal relationship and direct them to the church for their guidance, before you can step up and say "I am HE"

Further ~ The anti-Christ refuses to recognize that the Son of God has come to earth and become human. Or at minimum will convince people this is so with his claims to be Christ.

We are told by John  “Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the anti-Christ, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” (1 John 4:1-3)

There is no argument that the spirit of Anti Christ is here.  We all know people who scoff at this idea.

But the anti Christ of the end is not the spirit of anti Christ.... anymore then we, who have the Holy Spirit abiding within us are the Holy Spirit.... They are 2 separate things.

The “seducer” and “anti-Christ” is one who denies this truth about God’s Son... not necessarily believing what he is saying but of necessity needing to convince the people of this to further his deception.

2 John 1:7 says For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Satan, through the ministrations of the “Dragon” and the “Beast” (see Rev. 13:4), who promote the spirit of the anti-Christ, will seek total world domination and worship. And those who refuse to adore “the beast or his image”  will be beheaded.. (Rev. 20:4)
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: GB on Sat Feb 22, 2020 - 13:54:51
I agree, to a degree, with what you replied.... but not this.

 I, for one, am waiting for "the" antiChrist, whom I believe will not be a popup minister claiming to be Christ, or even a deceiver with such claims.

We had that... not terribly long ago.....

"“I represent the messiah.” Farrakhan said, again referencing Jesus. “I represent the Jesus and I am that Jesus. If I am not, take my life.”

Louis Farrakhan ~ https://www.jpost.com/OMG/Farrakhan-I-represent-the-Jesus-that-saves-585978

And he is not alone in the "cults" of this world.

No, this one who is coming... he will be the great deceiver. Where possible deceiving the very elect. (Mathew 24:24)

Are you aware that the idea of Anti-Christ or the Antichrist is not claimed only by Christian believers?

It is also within the Islamic faith. In Islamic eschatology, Al-Masih ad-Dajjal is an anti-messiah figure ... similar to anti Christ... that will deceive humanity before the second coming of Jesus.

While we know that Islam does not believe in Jesus as savior, but only as a great prophet...

But from 2 world religions... Christianity and Muslim.... it cannot escape our common ancestor... without whom we would not have evolved and neither would they. Abraham ( with Hagar) ((them)) and Abraham ( with Sarah) ((us))

So do you not find it interesting that through the ages of the 2 religions clashing that their would be this commonality of
anti-christ or as they say.anti-messiah figure?

Now their beliefs are so anti Jesus that one naturally can believe they are all anti-Christs.... While there is a definite
similarity, it stops.

Muslim end times beliefs are

In the final days, Muslims hold, Jesus indeed comes again.

This is the Muslim version of Jesus – Isa Al-Maseeh, who just happens to fit the description of the “false prophet” described in Revelation as performing miraculous signs and being worshipped.

This Muslim “Isa”  is just one of the last in a series of prophets, all of whom testified to the future coming of Muhammad and God’s final revelation. 

At the end, Isa Al-Maseeh will descend and destroy all crosses,  and kill all Christians and others who refuse to convert to Islam. (Much as the Muslim extremists wage Jihad against us today)

There will also be an anti-Christ – Ad-Dajjal in the Muslim version.

He will claim to be the Messiah, but is a liar. He will become the charismatic leader of the Jews, followed by Jews and women, but will finally be slaughtered by the Muslim Jesus.

The final apocalyptic battles will take place north of Israel in the land of Magog (Rev. 20:7) during the reign of the final caliphate, the Mahdi (the rough Muslim equivalent of the pope),  who will rule over all of Islam.

  The Mahdi will wear a crown and ride a white horse, matching the description in Revelation 6:2 And with the help of Isa Al-Maseeh ...the Muslim Jesus... will defeat Dajjal ...the Muslim anti-Christ..., resulting in a world where Islam finally is the only religion, and all other religions have been banished from the face of the earth.

Did you catch that... their Mahdi is the Muslim equivalent of the POPE. And this is a synopsis of their endtimes.

As to what Christians call... "The anti Christ.

I believe what I read and study in John and the book of Revelation. I come with the following conclusions.

One can have a spirit of antiChrist and not be "THE" antiChrist of end times.

 The anti-Christ...  is a deceiver who denies that there can be any relationship between Father and Son in God: “Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?

Remember.... It was the current Pope Francis who was re-reported ( as I posted above)
And was re-reported
"July 2017 – At times one hears someone say: “I believe in God, I believe in Jesus, but I don’t care about the Church…”. How many times have we heard this? And this is not good. There are those who believe they can maintain a personal, direct and immediate relationship with Jesus Christ outside the communion and the mediation of the Church. These are dangerous and harmful temptations. These are, as the great Paul VI said, absurd dichotomies. It is true that walking together is challenging, and at times can be tiring: it can happen that some brother or some sister creates difficulties, or shocks us

https://www.catholicsarenotchristians.com/pope-francis-says-it-is-dangerous-and-harmful-to-have-a-personal-relationship-with-jesus-christ/

(And while I am not naming Pope Francis as the "Antichrist" this is among many baby steps in the end times leading that church into a great falling away._

continuing
He is anti-Christ who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.” (1 John 2:22-23)

First you need to create a separation from people clinging to Jesus in personal relationship and direct them to the church for their guidance, before you can step up and say "I am HE"

Further ~ The anti-Christ refuses to recognize that the Son of God has come to earth and become human. Or at minimum will convince people this is so with his claims to be Christ.

We are told by John  “Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the anti-Christ, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.” (1 John 4:1-3)

There is no argument that the spirit of Anti Christ is here.  We all know people who scoff at this idea.

But the anti Christ of the end is not the spirit of anti Christ.... anymore then we, who have the Holy Spirit abiding within us are the Holy Spirit.... They are 2 separate things.

The “seducer” and “anti-Christ” is one who denies this truth about God’s Son... not necessarily believing what he is saying but of necessity needing to convince the people of this to further his deception.

2 John 1:7 says For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Satan, through the ministrations of the “Dragon” and the “Beast” (see Rev. 13:4), who promote the spirit of the anti-Christ, will seek total world domination and worship. And those who refuse to adore “the beast or his image”  will be beheaded.. (Rev. 20:4)

Yes, there have been volumes of books written by religious men sharing literally thousands of "end time" scenarios.

But from my perspective, do we not all have "end times"? I mean, I know Jesus will return at some point, but if I die today, isn't that HIS return for me? Isn't the "Thief in the night" the end of my life which I don't know when will happen? Shouldn't a wise man be prepared and endure "until the end"? That would be the end of their life, right?

Also, from my perspective, most men don't really believe Jesus was flesh and blood just like I am. They really don't believe HE overcame sin by humbling Himself to God, rather, He overcame sin because HE had Godly powers no other human has ever had.

I have been banned from forums like this for just suggesting Jesus was a man just like you and I. I have been called a heretic because I don't believe Jesus was some kind of Hybrid Man unlike any other man ever born. I truly do believe HE came in the Flesh in all ways like unto His brethren. But that would mean every human, if they denied themselves and trusted the Armor of God, could humble themselves to God and "sin no more". A belief that is universally rejected by almost every religion under the "Christian banner".

From my perspective I see a massive religion which has created an image of God in the likeness of some long haired men's hair shampoo model and distributed this image through out the entire world. To the point that if you showed this image to almost anyone over the age of 12 on the planet, they would identify it as Jesus. Even though scriptures tell us HE wasn't some handsome hunk of a man with perfect profile..

I see a massive religion which has rejected wholesale the "Feast's of the Christ" and have replaced them with man made High Days founded in ancient pagan festivals. And have promoted them into the greatest religious high days ever seen on the planet, observed literally by the entire world. To the point where the economic success of many peoples on the earth is determined by commerce during these man made religious high Days.

How can it be said that those true elect during the Holocaust didn't experience "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be".

Or those elect who died during WW1, or the Inquisition, or any of a number of horrible times on this earth. It is said Peter was crucified upside down. Was that not his "end time"? How much worse could it get for Peter?

Rev. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

What happens when a man "denies himself", which Jesus said "ALL" who come to HIM must do?

Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Is this not Spiritually being "Beheaded"? Is not my head "Put off" and replaced with a mind of a "New Man"?

Col. 3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

What is put off? Is it not our mind? Or thoughts? Our way of thinking?

Or is Revelation 20:4 only speaking to those Elect who died one specific way? Stephen wouldn't be qualified to reign with the Christ then, nor the thief on the cross.

What generation since Jesus ascended into heaven has not lived with "wars and rumors of wars"? Can you name one?

What has divided humans more than religion? If I persuade you to transgress God's Commandments, am I not Spiritually killing you?

No, there is something wrong with the idea that the Christ is a respecter of persons. That we don't get to reign with Him in His Kingdom unless we are murdered a certain way. Or that the warnings of the Christ were only for the people of that age.

2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Who are these? Do they exist today? And how will we know them?

IS. 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Jn. 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Rev. 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Why did Jesus reject the only God of Abraham preaching religion of HIS Time? Was it because they were "Children of obedience"? No!!

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

I think God surely knows what HE is saying, and that we should spend more time listening to HIS Words, and less time listening to the never ending "Theologians" and they ever changing books and doctrines.


Ecc. 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Matt. 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, (of his life) the same shall be saved.
 
Food for thought.




 
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Sun Feb 23, 2020 - 05:05:38
Hi RB,

Yes, our grandchildren can get a stranglehold on our hearts.  Even 15 years and more after losing one of mine who never drew breath on this earth, the tears still flow for that most precious child.  God give you strength, brother, and make even these days a blessing for you and yours.  I hope perhaps that the give-and-take on these forum discussions can be a bit of temporary relief from some of your grief-stricken thoughts in the meantime.
Thank you, and because of Taylor's sickness (Destini's oldest son) I'm going to be very short with TIME, so let me finish with looking at the topic ANTICHRIST and then come back and answer you post, since you said a lot and we must go back to Jeremiah's prophecy and Daniel consideration of that prophecy and look at the scriptures you mentioned in Luke, etc.

I do understand your concern about me knowing those dates and I do not disagree with your post concerning that point, yet we will disagree with even the most righteous among the Jews of that day (A.D.) that there were maybe only a handful that actually was truly LOOKING for the appearing of the Messiah~and they are mention in Luke.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
Luke 2:25-33~"And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel. And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."
Brother, truly how many saints in Israel at that time HAD THE LIGHT that Simeon had which was given to him by God above almost every person living? While I agree that certain expectations that are written should be understood by all of us, who believe, yet most do not see the truth until God reveals the truth to us. I believe where you and I will strongly disagree will be concerning the last half of the final week of Daniel's prohecy, and this is where you and I will spit and go our separate ways based on the light that each possesses.

To discuss this may even take a whole thread of itself dealing with Daniel's intrepretation of the seventy weeks of prophecy as given to him from Gabriel.
Quote from: GABRIEL
Daniel 9:20-27~"And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Our disagreement is truly over what I highlighted in red~This is where we should start in order to answer your post and it would be impossible to do so now and do justice to this subject. Agree or disagree? Brother, ON THIS VERY POINT is where I had so much problem with JRC (you know whom I talking about) which eventually caused our separation since he was more along the lines of your understanding, even though different somewhat, but not that much. I believe you first learn this under him~correct or am I wrong? I would never accept his teaching on this subject (when I first met him almost thirty-five years ago) which caused strong friction between us among other things~church government, etc etc.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Sun Feb 23, 2020 - 05:17:12
Food for thought.
So much poison in this food~NO THANKS.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Sun Feb 23, 2020 - 08:45:11
But from my perspective, do we not all have "end times"? I mean, I know Jesus will return at some point, but if I die today, isn't that HIS return for me? Isn't the "
A few words since this is ANOTHER subject all together than "What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?" I will attempt to tie your post back into this thread somewhat, or the best that I can.

You are confused about this subject like all other of your "food for thoughts".
Quote
but if I die today, isn't that HIS return for me?
Not according to God's word. With that doctrine where does that leaves the unbeliever? Beside death is NOT HIS COMING to gather together his elect from the four winds of heaven!
Quote from: GB on: Yesterday at 13:54:51
Also, from my perspective, most men don't really believe Jesus was flesh and blood just like I am. They really don't believe HE overcame sin by humbling Himself to God, rather, He overcame sin because HE had Godly powers no other human has ever had.

I have been banned from forums like this for just suggesting Jesus was a man just like you and I. I have been called a heretic because I don't believe Jesus was some kind of Hybrid Man unlike any other man ever born. I truly do believe HE came in the Flesh in all ways like unto His brethren. But that would mean every human, if they denied themselves and trusted the Armor of God, could humble themselves to God and "sin no more". A belief that is universally rejected by almost every religion under the "Christian banner".
A strawman argument, which is the trademark of all of your posts.

CHRISTIANS believe that Jesus was FULLY man just as we are, and in ALL points tempted as we are. That's not even debatable among Believers. Not ONE believer teach that he overcame sin by his Divine nature, but AS A MAN. Another one of your logical fallacies used by you, since you truly have no strong arguments in your antichrist theology.
 
You reject Jesus' COMPLEX NATURE being BOTH FULLY man and FULLY God, and these two distinct natures were ever separate in him and NEVER acted as co-partners in his work of redemption for his people! You deserve to be banned from CHRISTIANS forums for your doctrine is ANTICHRIST per 2nd John.
Quote from: A MAN OF GOD
2nd John 1:7-10~"For many deceivers are entered into the world. who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist! Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:"

You have been banned from CHRISTIANS forums because you reject the DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST and rightly so.     
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Sun Feb 23, 2020 - 23:56:29
Hi again RB,

I presume that you believe in a sort of “gap theory” for the last half of Daniel’s 70th week, yes?  If so, we don’t agree on that point.  I’ve no idea what JRC ever taught on this.  None of my beliefs on eschatology are based on his views as a reference point, since he never taught much on this while I was a member in his church, and I make it a point to avoid visiting his website except on very rare occasions.  It triggers too many bad memories of spiritual abuse.

The 70 weeks of Daniel are an intact timeline with no interruptions from start to finish (454 BC - AD 37).  Regarding the final flood of AD 70 “overspreading of desolations” of Jerusalem and its temple, this prophecy was “SEALED UP” within that intact period of 70 weeks. This “sealing up” of the 70-week prophecy details was separated from the time when those prophesied final desolations of the war were to be later UNSEALED when John’s Revelation visions were “AT HAND”.   (And I go by God’s own definition of what “AT HAND” means in Ezekiel 12:21-28.)

The BEGINNING  of the first half of this 70th week was supposed to manifest “Messiah the Prince” in AD 30, whose sacrifice of Himself in the MIDDLE of that 70th week (Passover AD 33) would accomplish ALL SIX of the predictions given in Daniel 9:24.

Jesus the “Messiah the Prince” was the “messenger of the covenant” (Mal. 3:1).  He would “confirm the covenant with many” (Dan. 9:27) of His own people for a full “week” of seven years. This “week” began with the start of His 3-1/2 year ministry in AD 30, and continued under His disciples for 3-1/2 years after Jesus was “cut off out of the land of the living” in AD 33 in the middle of that “week” (Dan. 9:26 compared to Is. 53:8). 

His disciples continued to offer that gospel only “to the Jews first” (Rom. 1:16) during that 3-1/2 years, but starting with Paul’s temple vision in AD 37, began to concentrate on the Gentiles at the close of that 70th “week” in AD 37.  As Paul and Barnabas said in Acts 13:46 to the rebellious Jews who were still rejecting the message of that covenant, “It was NECESSARY that the gospel should FIRST have been spoken to you” (necessary to fulfill Daniel’s last 70th week with the gospel going to the remnant of the  “lost sheep of the house of Israel”), “but seeing ye put it from you and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, lo, WE TURN TO THE GENTILES.”  The end of the 70th “week” was the end of the gospel emphasis concentrated first on the Jews, which then switched focus to the pagan Gentile nations on AD 37.

Once the Jewish leadership rejected Christ because He did not come as a warrior king offering military opposition against the Romans as they thought the Messiah would do, the “false prophets” Jesus predicted in Matt. 24:24 started promoting the agenda of “false christs” in those days, offered as a substitute for Daniel’s prophesied “Messiah the Prince”.

THE one individual Anti-christ / Man of Sin / false christ, emerging from the group of “many anti-christs” / “many false christs” that had gone out into the world in those first-century days, was attempting to fulfill Daniel’s dated AD 30 Messiah prophecy, even though they all knew that the AD 30 deadline had already passed.  Satan and his devils were working at full deceptive speed during that “short time” and “little season” on earth (as John in Rev. 12:12 said they were presently doing at that time).  They were fully engaged in keeping these deceptive “false christs” and “false prophets” operating at that time.

Scripture’s emphasis on the heightened deception in those first-century days was due to the massive uptick in demonic oppression that Christ had predicted would increase sevenfold in severity and wickedness during the Jews’ “last state”.  The last state of that “wicked generation” was going to be worse than their “first state” while Christ had been among them casting out devils during His earthly ministry (Matt. 12:43-45).

All this “sevenfold” increase in deception was connected to those unparalleled and unsurpassed, first-century “Great Tribulation” days of vengeance, IMMEDIATELY followed by Christ’s return (Matt. 24:29).  But with  human history in this world CONTINUING LONG AFTER THAT RETURN OF JESUS, since there would be normal periods of regular tribulation which would never be able to rival the severity of that previous Great Tribulation period (Matt. 24:21). 

The reason this Great Tribulation would never be equaled again is because God got rid of the Satanic realm in AD 70, as promised in multiple texts.  That means this monumental threat of complete, “sevenfold” demonic oppression cannot possibly harass humanity again on this earth after that.  Not in Isaiah’s New Heaven and New Earth which now exists.

Just a little light reading to go with your Monday morning coffee, RB.  ::smile::
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 03:34:35
Just a little light reading to go with your Monday morning coffee, RB.  ::smile::
You know me well~ ::smile:: I just sat down with my coffee and will read this very carefully a couple of times over~I'm just short of the quality time needed to post effectively for the benefit of the readers and from shaming myself by not covering my bases with a post that folks cannot gainsay or resist the scriptural support needed to convince the gainsayers.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 03:43:32
I presume that you believe in a sort of “gap theory” for the last half of Daniel’s 70th week, yes?  If so, we don’t agree on that point.  I’ve no idea what JRC ever taught on this.  None of my beliefs on eschatology are based on his views as a reference point, since he never taught much on this while I was a member in his church, and I make it a point to avoid visiting his website except on very rare occasions.  It triggers too many bad memories of spiritual abuse.

The 70 weeks of Daniel are an intact timeline with no interruptions from start to finish (454 BC - AD 37).  Regarding the final flood of AD 70 “overspreading of desolations” of Jerusalem and its temple, this prophecy was “SEALED UP” within that intact period of 70 weeks. This “sealing up” of the 70-week prophecy details was separated from the time when those prophesied final desolations of the war were to be later UNSEALED when John’s Revelation visions were “AT HAND”.   (And I go by God’s own definition of what “AT HAND” means in Ezekiel 12:21-28.)

The BEGINNING  of the first half of this 70th week was supposed to manifest “Messiah the Prince” in AD 30, whose sacrifice of Himself in the MIDDLE of that 70th week (Passover AD 33) would accomplish ALL SIX of the predictions given in Daniel 9:24.
(Red highlight are mine~RB) Well now, you and JRC DO believe in a gap theory as well just a little different gap than I DO~and mine is different than the premill camp. Let me finish reading your post again and maybe it would be best to just start a new thread dealing JUST with Daniel 9 for truly it is a totally different doctrine than this present thread. RB
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: Michael2012 on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 04:40:03
Also, from my perspective, most men don't really believe Jesus was flesh and blood just like I am. They really don't believe HE overcame sin by humbling Himself to God, rather, He overcame sin because HE had Godly powers no other human has ever had.

Who are these most men you refer to who really don't believe Jesus was flesh and blood just like you are? Or is that a reference to your world of imagination?

Quote from: GB
I have been banned from forums like this for just suggesting Jesus was a man just like you and I. I have been called a heretic because I don't believe Jesus was some kind of Hybrid Man unlike any other man ever born. I truly do believe HE came in the Flesh in all ways like unto His brethren. But that would mean every human, if they denied themselves and trusted the Armor of God, could humble themselves to God and "sin no more". A belief that is universally rejected by almost every religion under the "Christian banner".

Well, regarding the human nature of Jesus, we just have to believe in God's words written in scriptures.

The Word. The coming in the flesh.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Born in the flesh.

Matthew 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Suffered and died in the flesh, and buried.

John 19:1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.

John 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha: 18 Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

John 19:40 Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

Heb. 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Heb. 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


And also, regarding the divine nature of Christ, we just have to believe in God's words written in scriptures.

God, the Word.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.

God, the Creator.

John 1:1 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


God, the Son.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

God, in the flesh.

Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

According to scriptures, Jesus Christ is the Son of man and the Son of God.

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Matthew 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.


And so, who is antiChrist?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Who has the spirit of the antiChrist?

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Who is a deceiver and an antichrist?

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 05:48:01
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 13:14~"But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:"
The abomination of desolation is the spirit of antichrist that Jesus warns us of that shall come during the perilous times of the last days that shall FIRST COME in great numbers before the coming of Jesus Christ.
Quote from: Paul
2ns Timothy 3:1-13~"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived."
These men/women are religious folks having a spirit of antichrist in the temple of God, or the professing churches throughout this world standing where they OUGHT NOT TO STAND, but these very men will take over the churches of Mystery Babylon, while the very elect will flee out of Judea, or the very place where God is supposed to be worship, per OT, which language the apostles would have understood at the time Christ delivered the Olivet  Discourse~thereby, it was only fitting that such words should have been used by Christ to them and since we have the TOTAL completion of the word of God we can take them and understand exactly what the Spirit meant by using such words, with the Spirit guiding us into the truth of His word.

Contrary to popular opinion, man isn't literally required to verbally declare, "I am Christ," in order to qualify as a false Christ. All he has to do is usurp the authority of the Word and take Christ's place in the Holy Temple and convince his followers that God is speaking THROUGH HIM TO THEM, which is exactly what the spirit of antichrist will do.  All he has to do is rule God's house (the congregation) by his own will and teach by what is from his own imaginations. Then by definition he is substituting himself for the Word, he is a false Christ. When man rules and seizes authority from God that he might say thus saith the Lord when the Lord has not said, he makes HIS WORD equal to Christ. When man falsely claims that "God will allows this, and God winks at that, and God is not against the other," He is the false prophet, he is an antichrist, he is a false Christ. For he professes to be of Christ, and yet by his doctrine, and actions he works against Him, in essence, he denies Him in favor of the image he himself has created. The authority of Christ is His infallible unadulterated word, and anyone 'substituting' their own words for the Word of God, is carnal and worshipping the image of the Beast. He has become the lawless man, an antichrist exalting himself to high places. This indeed is the true teaching illustrated in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2:
Quote from: Paul
2nd Thessalonians 2:3-4~"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
The sinful man is seen here in a portrait of a false Christ 'because' he positions himself sitting (signifying ruling) in the Holy Temple of God as if he were God. He is by implication substituting his words for God's word. He is thus the disobedient, the lawless man, the man of sin. For the true Christian, Jesus Christ is the Living Word who rules in the Temple. If man in the spirit of antichrist substitutes his own rules (laws) for God's, he has by the spirit of Antichrist made himself ruler in the Temple. He doesn't have to literally say I am Christ the ruling king, he makes himself the ruler and false Christ by usurping the authority of Christ. By his disobedience to God's laws, He is the man of lawlessness[. God illustrates throughout His word that an Antichrist is more than someone who verbally denies Christ in the flesh, he is one who denies Christ by His works. Think about it, why would someone who denies Christ literally or verbally, be ruling in the churches? God's servants would be aware of that and he would deceive no one in the church. That would be an Atheist, and it would make no sense for him to rule the church. On the other hand, it is he that claims to be serving Christ, and yet rationalizes away God's word and cleverly twists God's word, and stealthily removes God's word, that will deceive the church. That's the man of sin's strong delusion, that's the great deception, that's the clever misrepresentation that will seduce an unfaithful congregation. Not an atheist, but an antichrist, a man ruling in place of Christ. It is one who denies the authority of God's law by chicanery substituting his own interpretations, rules, and words for God's. Believer, it is incumbent upon God's children to examine the 'substitute' aspect of this word as Antichrist. For example, when Christ warns, "for many shall come in My name saying I am Christ and shall deceive many"~Matthew 24:4... He wasn't talking about a few mentally deranged individuals who might think or literally claim that they are Christ. At best these could deceive only a few gullible people. Christ was talking about the 'many' antichrists who WILL come looking like a Lamb, but speaking like a Dragon. Many false Christs that praise the Lord with their lips, while they have their own authorities and are substituting themselves as the rulers of Churches, in opposition to God's divine word. They indeed are not a few deranged individuals, but are the many wolves in sheep's clothing who indeed deceive many "exactly" as prophesied. Show me a man who literally says, "I am Christ," and I'll show you a man who is almost universally mocked, who can at best deceive few. But show me a man of lawlessness in the church, with deceiving lips causing many to fall away from the inerrant authority of the Word, and I'll show you Antichrist. I'll show you the man of sin ruling in the Temple of God 'as if' he was God. I'll show you the false prophet and the false Christ. A church body that is not ruled by Christ (the word), is ruled by man. Many will be deceived and believe that this is the Christ.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Mark 13:21-23~"And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things."
I hear this even now~folk say you MUST go here, to hear this man of God, he has the power of God on him~another will say THIS CHURCH is a church and you MUST go there and see for yourself, etc. etc.

These false Christs that rise are showing great signs, signifying that they are of Christ, and our Lord says that they will be so convincing that it might even deceive the very elect of God if that were possible. Obviously it is not a few lunatics thinking they are literally Christ, it is Popes, Bishops, Cardinals, so-called apostles, Pastors, Ministers, Theologians and other church rulers convincing thousands upon thousands that their gospel is of God and that their church is a loving church and sanctioned by God. They substitute their beliefs for His laws, and man's word for His works, and they substitute their sentiments for His commandments, and for His will they substitute their own will. These are the only false Christs who can deceive so greatly and so convincingly that they would even deceive the very elect if they were not divinely sealed by the Spirit of promise. This lawless man ruling in the Temple as if he was God, can only be recognized as such by those possessing the Spirit of truth. "He who hath an ear, let him hear."

Later....RB
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 08:07:06
Now we will now take a look at all of the specific verses that use this word Antichrist to determine who is the man of sin. Though there are many scriptures that speak about the action of Antichrist, there are only four verses in the entire Bible that expressly use the word 'antichrist.' These are~ 1st John 2:18, 1st John 2:22, 1st John 4:3, and 2nd John 1:7~ and in order:
Quote from: The apostel John
1st John 2:18~"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time."
Please consider how John clearly debunks the theory of antichrist being one man~ He says as they have heard that antichrist should come in the future (Jesus Himself preached of false Christs coming in Matthew 24; from Daniel 7-12), even then as he wrote this there were already many antichrists. It's important to see that John didn't deny the doctrine that antichrist would come to prominence in the future, rather, he simply told them that even in their time there were indeed many of these antichrists. i.e., antichrist is not a single man as some Christians have presupposed. When we let scriptures define antichrist we see that he has a very different meaning than some theologians of our day. The truth is, he is exactly what the name implies. Anyone who comes as [anti] opposed to, or as a false or substitute for Christ. God already has a name for those who are outside the Church and are opposed to Him. They are infidels or unbelievers. The anti or substitute Christs are something else entirely. They profess that they are the Church but deny Christ in their doctrine and works. The terms 'false Christs and 'antichrists' are basically synonymous, because they illustrate the same spirit of the substitute Christ.

In 1st John 2:18 we read that they had heard that antichrist would come (future), but that there were even then many antichrists already present. Scripture here has defined the antichrist as that which is coming, and indeed many were already present. So again we see scripture confirms that antichrist is Satan manifesting himself in his doctrine and walk. This spirit is seen as character traits of one whose life is in league with Satan, just as the true Christians has the Spirit of God which manifests itself in our life as character traits of our being in league with Christ. Two spirits, one of Christ and the other of antichrist. Antichrist cannot be a single man, nor a supernatural evil man. Satan is that spirit that is both coming (as this spirit will be loosed in the future), and that which was already at work in the world at the time of John's writing. This is information God has given to illuminate these passages that we can glean from them just who antichrist represents. Only the spirit Satan working within men 'qualifies' to both be in the world then, now, and in the future. The spirit of Satan was there working in men, and as they had heard, this spirit would come with all iniquity abounding in the future (iniquity was restrained at the cross ~2nd Thessalonians 2:7). The well oiled myth of a single antichrist man is found wanting when examined in the light of the 'whole' of scripture. Antichrist works (and has worked) throughout time within men whom he uses to do his bidding. For He is that spirit Satan.

Another thing is that in 1st John 2:18 we read that they had heard that antichrist was to come"in the last time"~ and John says the prediction of the coming of the antichrist were being fulfilled even then because there were many antichrists there already (see 1st John 4:3). He confirms, 'whereby we know that it is the last time.' In other words, this is how we know it is the last time. The phrase last time refers to what is also called the 'last days' (Acts 2:17) and encompasses the whole New Testament period when Christ was prophesied to come and to reign. This is telling us this New Covenant period has already been fulfilled 'because' antichrists have come. i.e., you can't have those opposing the true Christ of the Covenant if it is not yet the last time when Christ was prophesied to come. He is declaring to the Church that the presence of antichrists or substitute Christs is evidence that the prophecy is fulfilled of the last days when Christ would come to His temple and reign. The New Testament with spiritual Israel and the final dispensation has come, and the presence of antichrists proves it.

John didn't define these antichrists as many do today, he introduces them as professed Christians who had been among them, but who went their own way because they no longer believed as these faithful did. The very next verse shows that conclusively.
Quote from: The apostle John again
1st John 2:19~"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."
Obviously these antichrists were professing Christians or false apostles, but they no longer could hold to the doctrines they had first received. We see the same type thing happen in our day where some in the Churches don't like the doctrines and so go out from among us to form another Church. The "context" of this chapter shows that these weren't those who denied Christ verbally, but those who denied him doctrinally and attempted to seduce the faithful. They were not antichrists because they denied the historical existence of Jesus (as many define antichrists) they were antichrists because they began teaching a false Christ, or another gospel other than that of Christ. This is a picture of false apostles who wanted a christ after their own image, and to teach their own versions of Christ, and so went out from among the faithful. They went out, that it might be made manifest that they were never 'truly' of the Spirit of Christ in the first place. They were always antichrists. Some theologians have stated that this fact that there were many antichrists doesn't preclude the belief that there can be a single antichrist individual come in the future. However, this is both inconsistent and unbiblical. A man's spirit cannot be in the world for 2000 years before his body is conceived. Satan is the only spirit who 'qualifies' to be here that long, and he has never needed one body. He has an army of bodies down throughout time at his disposal. There is no Biblical warrant for applying such a forced interpretation as one incarnate Satan man. God's Word never defines antichrist as a single man, but as the spirit Satan working through his children. And man (men) with this spirit, are many antichrists. Just as Jesus called the Scribes and Pharisees a serpent and a generation of vipers to illustrate they were of their father the Devil, and possessed the spirit of Satan (See and consider: Matthew 23:33). Likewise, those who are of this spirit antichrist, are antichrists. Antichrist can be singular only in that ultimately he is that spirit Satan. If we are going to define antichrist as a single man that is yet to come, we will have to ignore all the scriptures which actually speak of antichrist. i.e., ignore the context and content of scripture and apply our own "private interpretation." But when we allow God to define His own Word, we find nothing in scripture which makes the single man declaration. The coming antichrist is the loosing of the spirit of Satan with all lying signs and wonders (2nd Thessalonians  2:7-10) which works within unregenerate men. There were many antichrists or many men with the spirit of antichrist even in John's day, and when that spirit of Satan which was bound by Christ's cross is loosed, then will that spirit antichrist come to the full. Iniquity shall abound, and then shall be revealed Satan. This is the only consistent theological conclusion we can come to and have it be in total agreement with the whole of scripture.

Next: 1st John 2:22...RB
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 09:49:54
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
1st John 2:22~"Who is a Liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that denieth the father and the Son."
Again, following that same definition of antichrist, God says anyone who denies Jesus is the Messiah, or that denieth the Father and the Son, Is Antichrist. That statement is both clear and concise. Are we to believe that no one except one single man in history has ever denied Jesus, or the father, thus qualifying him to be the antichrist? That is a ridiculous conclusion of course. But that is what we would have to conclude if we were to privately interpret the word antichrist as some theologians today do. One man just doesn't qualify according to scripture. In this verse, God's Word has again defined antichrist not as one man, but as anyone who denies the Father and the Son. In order to deny God they would have to have the spirit of Satan, the spirit of disobedience. How much clearer could this passage possibly tell us exactly who the antichrist is? Seriously, could it possibly be any plainer? antichrist is he who is a liar and denies that Jesus is the Christ, or denies the Father, or who denies the Son. But when a man denies God's Word, he truly denies Christ, the Word of God made flesh. I could go in-depth and show WHO is guilty of such, but that at the moment is not our aim, only that the antichrist is NOT one man, but many.

GB, you without question are found under this scripture....later, if you care for me to prove it.
Quote from: Again John said
1st John 2:4~"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him".
Here is that liar spoken of as the antichrist. It is that man who professes to be a Christian or follower of Christ, and yet has his own word in place of' the word of God. i.e., he professes that he knows Christ, yet denies His Word through his doctrine and godly living. God's conclusion of the matter is that this man is the liar. As is written, "Who is a Liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist that denieth the father and the Son." One might then protest, 'but do they deny Christ verbally?' I would answer, "No, and nowhere in God's Word does it declare anyone has to deny Him verbally in order to qualify." On the contrary, God has made this abundantly clear.
Quote from: Paul
Titus 1:16~"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny Him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate".
They're calling themselves Christian, but they are lying to themselves (See 1st John 2:4)~they won't keep His commandments, they are disobedient to the laws of God. They are the man of lawlessness. They are not true followers of Christ, but false ones. And this verse clearly tells us they deny Christ, not by verbally saying, "we deny Christ," but by their works and doctrines they deny Him. See 2nd Peter 2; Jude~And that is the illustration God is putting forth here. That there are many antichrists who deny Christ by their doctrines and actions, because their words professing Christ are empty words and their gospel is another other than the gospel of pure grace. As a tree is known by its fruits, a man is known by his works. So when they usurp authority of God's Word, while all the time professing that they are the body of Christ, they make themselves false or substitute Christs. A counterfeit of the true body.

If we are going to let God's Word define God's Word and not subject it to personal interpretation, we must conclude that anyone who denies Christ's gospel, is antichrist. And not according to a theologian's idea of what denying Christ is, but according to God's definition. It is written, we deny Christ by our works and doctrine. This is because He who denies the Word of God by their works, automatically denies Christ (Titus 1:16). Christ is the Word of God made flesh (John 1:14) THEREBY~ God manifested in human flesh. And again, in this very context of antichrist we can see that they were false prophets, denying Christ in works and doctrine because God declared right there that these antichrists sought to entice or lead the Church astray. i.e., there were those verbally denying Christ, they were those professing "Jesus" but a substitute another Jesus, with another spirit using another gospel~ An antichrist spirit at work under the Christian banner.

One more thought before moving on to the next scripture~I need to add this:  When folk preach/teach that there is coming or has come, a single antichrist, that takes the focus off of their sect, their leaders, etc. of whom the SCRIPTURES are clearly speaking about! Cannot folk see WHO would want folks to believe in a single antichrist? I do! Selah
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 13:20:04
Just a thought or two to add to the last post.
Quote from: John again
1st John 2:26~"These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you."
Who were these antichrists that sought to seduce or lead astray the Church? They are those who taught the substitute or antichrist, the false Christ. These weren't those literally saying there is no Christ in the flesh, they were those who in works denied the risen Christ by their false doctrine concerning him. It is a dead giveaway that all false Christs have one thing in common no matter what denomination they belong to. They make either themselves or their leaders the "authority" to rule in the Temple. And that, by any definition, is a false or substitute Christ~thereby, ANTICHRIST. There is only one true God and one ultimate authority in the Church. God cares for His Church, but He also warns that he who denies the word by false doctrine, denies God, and also shall be denied of God. Our works will tell whether or not we deny Christ, not our mouths.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Luke 12:7-9~"But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows. Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God: But he that denieth me before men shall be denied before the angels of God".
We faithfully confess Christ before men by faithfully teaching THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY! Denial of Christ comes in many different forms, as does confession of Christ. When Jesus said, "when you do it to these, you have done it to Me," he was talking about the body of Christ (Matthew 25:40). When we serve the Church, we serve Christ, and when we neglect our commission, we have neglected Christ. And if we deny the word of God, we deny Christ, and when we keep the word of God, we show our love for Christ. These things are all intimately related. Conversely, when we have "not" done it unto the least of these, we have not done it unto Christ. The Church is one body. If we remove the authority of the word, then we substitute Christ, the head of the body. When man substitutes God's laws with lawlessness, then he has gone from the man of law of God, to the man of lawlessness/SIN. We are then serving and preaching another Jesus/Christ regardless of what we may think or say.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Mon Feb 24, 2020 - 14:52:39
Quote from: John
1st John 4:2-3~"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that of antichrist, whereof you have heard that it should come, and even now already is it in the world."
To scripturally confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is to confess that God was manifest in the flesh per 1st Timothy 3:16.

Here we see again what we've shown before. These are contrasting spirits. The spirit of Satan, and the Spirit of God. And God calls Satan's spirit, that of antichrist. We see here the deciding factor what spirit we are of is to confess that Jesus Christ WAS GOD in human flesh! But does this mean that anyone who verbally confesses Christ is of God? Absolutely not. So even on the surface of it we know that this cannot simply mean literally or verbally confessing Christ. For it is self-evident that all types of false gospels and false prophets verbally confess Christ. But the truth becomes manifest when we understand that we confess Christ not with our lips, but with our DOCTRINE and WORKS of righteousness. As Jesus said, a tree is known by it's fruits. And likewise, we deny Him not with our lips, but with our doctrine and works. For even the devils confess Christ (Luke 4:34) verbally. And so we understand God defines terms more broadly than man does.

Once again, note that God did not say that the spirit of antichrist is not coming in the future as they'd heard, He says again that it was even then already in the world. In other words, again, the defining of antichrist as not one man, but a spirit working through men that was in the world even then. A spirit that could only be Satan, who though he was bound by the cross of Christ, was allowed to go about (though restrained) among men. It is only when that spirit is unrestrained or loosed in the future that he will be allowed to move men to abandon God's laws and rule in the Holy Temple as God. Rule as lawless man...the man OF SIN.

There are those theologians who protest this conclusion asking, how can antichrist be already in the world, and yet is to come in the future as a great iniquity loosed upon man? They insist that this is a contradiction. However, the protests are more self-serving than substantive. The answer of how this can be is not at all perplexing, nor is it difficult to understand. Antichrist is a spirit (as this verse indeed illustrates), not a man. In the first instance, he is Satan who indwells men from generation to generation and has done so from the beginning from Cain onward. But he was restrained (See 2nd Thessolonnias 2:7) or held back that this iniquity wouldn't abound, by the cross of Christ. The spirit of Satan was reserved in chains to be loosed in the future, the starting of a great tribulation period when he is. Thus, we read in that verse the language of the prophecy, "the coming of antichrist." Paul lived in the time when this lawless spirit was restrained, but clearly this spirit will be loosed. And God clearly says so.
Quote from: Paul
2nd Thessalonians 2:6-10"And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work, only he who restraineth will restrain, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."
Satan’s principal weapon is that of deception. Here we see God clearly telling us that this spirit Satan which was already at work in the world even then, would be revealed in the future, and that the iniquity or lawlessness was being restrained, that the man of sin (man of lawlessness) could not rule in God's Temple at that time. But in the future this iniquity that was restrained would be loosed and only THEN would that iniquity be unrestrained, and Satan revealed. Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and lying signs and wonders. Man with the spirit of Satan is the man of lawlessness/SIN. In 2nd Thessalonians 2 (Just as in 1st John) the word of God says iniquity was 'already' at work in the world, and yet it was being restrained until a set time known only to God but the even elect do have eyes TO see when the church has been overtaken by this which spirit and can about know when it all started. That word translated 'letteth' is an old english word which simply means restrain~that is what the word signifies. It means to be restrained~so that the Church could be built over the last 2000 years.

God's declaration is that the mystery of iniquity was already at work (when 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2 was written), yet was restrained. Nevertheless, some teachers curiously argue that, 'If iniquity was restrained at the cross, why is there so much evil in the world?' Or else they mock saying, 'iniquity must not have been held down very tightly, because it's sure loose in the world today.' First of all, despite their self-serving sarcasm, this is clearly what this verse says. It's not what man claims it says, it's what God actually says. We can believe it, or we can mock it, but we cannot deny it. Yes, iniquity was already at work in the world, nevertheless, it was being restrained until the time when He that restrained it is taken out of the way (midst). So there is no 'if's, and's, or but's,' that is exactly what God unambiguously says. And that's exactly what John means by, you have heard that antichrist should come, and even now was already at work in the world. Satan has been working in the world, and yet by the cross of Christ, he has been restrained of God. He has been conquered by the cross that his great desire for iniquity to abound (which would brings about the great tribulation period), could not happen then. Because it was 'restrained' by the power of Christ. But near the end of the world (which time I believe we are in that time), when the work of the cross is accomplished, then will God loose Satan from the bottomless pit. The Spirit of Christ is removed from the midst of the Churches as they depart from the faith and turn to the spirit of antichrist and Apostasy. Iniquity shall abound, the love of God grow cold, and the prophesy of antichrist coming shall come to the full. Just as both 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2, and revelation chapter 20 illustrates. That spirit of Satan must be loosed for a 'short period' near the end to usher in the return of the Lord. Just as we by the Spirit of God are the Kingdom of God, they by the spirit of Satan are the kingdom of the beast. A kingdom served by the false christs or antichrists.

In these verses of 1st John chapter 2 we have learned that antichrists' are wolves in sheep's clothing, and their primary target is Christians (making war with the saints and overcoming them per Revelation 13 and Daniel 7). John’s use of the term antichrist was to describe people associated with the Church who were teaching heresies to deceive or seduce the flock. We see this illustrated in his saying (1st John 2:26)~ "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you." They come from the visible Church and they are those who have fallen away from God and His authority, which is His most Holy word. They come with heresies to seduce the people of God, for the word of deception is the main weapon of satan, and without the whole armour of God, many will fall by that sword.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 04:42:30
The fourth and final place in scripture where we read the word antichrist is in 2nd John chapter 1 where God speaks of these deceivers and tells us what is to be our response to them.
Quote from: THE HOLY GHOST
2nd John 1:7-10~"For many deceivers are entered into the world. who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist! Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:"
Clearly we can see from these verses that these people labeled antichrist were deceivers, false teachers of a substitute Christ who attempted to seduce the faithful that they fall away from the truth. We are not to give place to these antichrists spirits seducing the faithful. We are told not to wish them God speed, and we are not to fellowship with them because they are coming with heretical teachings to lure us away from the truth. We are to remain as far away from them as night is to day.
Quote from: Paul
2nd Corinthians 6:15~"And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?"
These antichrists are not fellow brethren, nor are they simply misguided Christians (as some suppose). And God has commanded us to separate ourselves from them, and give them no place in the Church.

God defines the antichrist as any deceiver (liar) who denies that God was manifest in human flesh~per 1st Timothy 3:16. Many Jews literally denied Christ in the flesh, many others denied there was a resurrection, but these antichrists deny Him in doctrine and works while professing Him with the mouth. These are false teachers whose purpose is to snare the unwary to their vision of Jesus Christ. This is what an antichrist is. There is no scripture that defines him as a supernatural human, or a political leader, or a demon born of someone in need of an exorcism. God doesn't define him as a 'one world' ruler who is adept at computers or economics.. These are all the fanciful private, personal or political interpretations of men, but they have absolutely nothing to do with biblical hermeneutics or sound exegesis of the prophecy. Lawless man or sinful man, or man OF SIN is just as the name implies. Man who doesn't follow the laws of God, or the man of sin. It's not a mystery to the very elect, at least it should not be so. The very definition of sin is 'the transgression of the laws of God.' Therefore, the "man of sin" definition should be self-evident. The man of sin is thus not one particular man, but a sinful man in particular in the churches of Christ. But because of tradition, Church presupposition, worldliness, political climate, and the sloppy exegesis in the professing Churches of God, it is defined according to the best sellers, and the imaginations of men, rather than the Word of God.

The man of sin is literally the lawless man. There really is no confusing language in 2nd Thessalonians, the confusion comes in when man wants to read into scripture more than what is written there. The only mystery in Christendom is why so many people are deceived by the preposterous idea of a "one man" antichrist. Ultimately, even that is not a mystery if we understand the nature of man and his penchant for setting his eyes on the worldly for his answers, and not upon Christ. He will then 'naturally' see worldly things, instead of spiritual things every time that he does so.

    One caveat that we should pay particular attention to is that despite what some theologians teach, the actual language of the Bible is that of, "the man of sin," not a man of sin. And mark of the beast is the number "of man," not the number of a man~ i.e., the man of sin is contrasting the man of Satan whose character is of lawlessness (sin), with the man of God, whose character is of obedience to the law. e.g.,
Quote from: David
Psalms 1:1-2~"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night."
Here is the lawful man, as opposed to the lawless man. Here is the man of law as opposed to the man of lawlessness, or sin. These aren't phrases speaking about one Godly man or one Devil man, they are illustrations of the Character of the man of Satan, and the man of God. One Keeps God's commandments (obeys laws) and the other doesn't (is lawless)~one is faithful in handling the word of God, one is not so, but wrest and corrupt what he does not like to his "own" liking!
Quote from: Paul
1st Timothy 6:11~"But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness."
Again:
Quote from: Paul
2nd Corinthians 2:17~"For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."
The man of sin rising up in the temple is referring to the man opposed to the laws or commandments of God, not one devil man. The man of lawlessness or the man of sin illustrates a rising up of unlawfulness in the Churches, not in a literal temple building in the middle east.

Secondly, the widely misinterpreted 'little Horn' of Daniel chapter 8 represents the power (horns in scripture equate to/signify Power) of Satan as he is loosed in power a little season. We can see the correlation clearly. Little Horn (Daniel 8) means power for the little season that Satan is loosed (Revelation 20:3). Or as Revelation 17 says, the 10 horns receive POWER as kings, not then (when the book was written), but would receive it "one hour" (or a LITTLE SEASON) with the Beast that is loosed from the bottomless pit (Revelation 17:14,16). This is God's marvelous way of showing us the picture of the end times, and Satan's power to rule in it for a short time (little power = little horn) before Christ's second advent. Do not be deceived by self-serving theories about politics, economics, Israel, nations, power brokers, or literal marks on the skin. These symbolisms represent spiritual truths, just as Jesus throwing the buyers and sellers out of the Temple in His day did. The spiritual truth of the buyers and the sellers, is that they had made the House of the Lord a den of thieves. They had brought abomination into the place where God was supposed to be worship and were thus cast out. Likewise, in the Revelation 13 symbolism, it follows only those cast out in this judgment could buy and sell. Only those in servitude to Satan (marked by the beast) would be cast out. The rest are safe and secure from God's judgment. They could not buy and sell in the Temple. They were NOT welcome, but persecuted as trouble makers and having an unlove gospel limited to the very elect only. 

Some closing remarks later....RB

Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 06:40:15
In closing this doctrine concerning the antichrist~The antichrist is the spirit Satan working within man, which has been here since Cain, but whom will abound, increase, or be loosed a short time before the Lord returns as "a judgment upon the harlot church" at which time this harlot church will make war against the saints of the Most High God, and will overcome them to a point they will NO LONGER be accepted in the temple of God, or, the churches in Mystery Babylon... A Church that has gone whoring after other gods in divorcing herself from her God. For it is written, judgment must begin at the house of God (1st Peter 4:17). And for this reason, the spirit Satan is loosed "by God" and will go forth and deceive the nations that they should believe his false teachings, and be damned. And God says the reason is that they would not receive the love of the truth of God's word ( See and ponder well~2nd Thessalonians 2:9-12).

The antichrist is now, and is in anyone who has the spirit of Satan dwelling within them that they become adversaries to God's word. For he who is an adversary to the word, is an adversary to Christ. The antichrist revealed in full in the end-time apostasy, is when Satan is unrestrained and these seduces will come against the camp of the saints in great spiritual warfare. By their opposition to the truth, they make themselves a truth in and of themselves, a substitute Christ. They worship an image of themselves (as those who built the tower to heaven) looking spiritually to being their own god, and their own authority. They are seeking to write their own destiny as they have fallen from the faith where they place their word as law instead of God's word. We see this today as every law of God is being attacked and is fallen in Church after Church around the world. And only those with the whole armour of God will endure unto the end at Christ's coming. The man of God, the man of law has taken a back seat to the man of Satan, the man of sin or lawlessness. These truths are spiritually discerned in the elect.
Quote from: THE SPIRIT OF GOD
1st Timothy 4:1~"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, (Not RB or any other man that speaks on the behalf of God) that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"
This is the coming of that spirit of antichrist where men depart from the faith and begin listening to the spirits of devils. This is the loosing of that spirit Satan that man becomes lawless and rules in the Churches instead of God. This is man taking a seat (ruling) in the Holy Temple (where he OUGHT NOT TO SIT) in place of God. i.e., he's become false or substitute Christ in denial of the truth. Old Testament examples show us that a woman who has abandoned her husband for another is seen as a harlot, and this act an Abomination which will bring her to desolation. God uses this as an illustration of the unfaithful Church. This abandoning God is taking place now as surely as it took place in Israel and led to her desolation and her "denial of Christ/God." And let the nay-sayers take note that Israel didn't deny the Messiah verbally. In point of fact, they believed fervently in their interpretation of the Messiah, and they waited for Him. But it was by their works and doctrine that they denied the very Christ whom they sought. And it is the same in our day. Professed Christians build up Churches with the names of the great Church fathers and prophets on their lips, but by their works and doctrine, they are the same as those who killed these very Church fathers and prophets. And this isn't the first time this has occurred, for biblical history reveals there is nothing new under the sun.
Quote from: JESUS CHRIST
Matthew 23:29-32~"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers."
False prophets usually never know that they are false prophets because Satan's principal weapon is deception. Like those today looking for literal devil men, marks on the skin, and earthly reigns, Israel too looked for earthly reigns, wars, prosperity, and a Messiah after their own imaginations. They preached the Messiah and they were all looking forward to His coming, but they missed Him because of unbelief. Christ called them children of the Devil, and yet they all believed they were of God and served him. Let that be a lesson to all of us of Satan's power of deception. No, man doesn't have to verbally deny Christ to deny Christ. He who hath an ear, let him hear. Judgment (as then, so now) must begin at the House of God, and the judgment is the same. Desolation for their abominations in the Holy Temple. Finally, the buyers and sellers (those with the mark of the beast) who take a seat in the Temple, as if they were God, are cast out. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

As I've said many times in this message, Satan’s principal weapon is deception. Again and again, Christ has warned us of this. In practically every verse or chapter about the end times there is witness to it. This is because God so desires His people to be so familiar with the truth of this, that we will be able to recognize the 'SIGNS' of this counterfeit gospel by examining these passages, and these false teachers in light of the word of God. It all comes down to this. Will we remain faithful to the laws in the word of God when all those around us are falling away from God like branches in the hard wind?

Antichrist has no specific prophetic application to any particular human being whether living or dead, but to all men who in the spirit of Satan practice lawlessness in the Church. These are those who substitute their word for God's law to deceive the people. The personification of ageless rebellion, the spirit of antichrist is not the Pope, not Hitler, and not a Roman entity. He is not identifiable with one nation, one church, institution, or person. He can show up in the Reformed, Presbyterian or Baptist Church just as easily as he has in the Roman Catholic church and EOC. As long as the spirit of Satan struggles against Christ through his minions, the antichrist is at work deceiving the flock. The more God allows this spirit to prosper, the more these false prophets will assault the Church. Only when the Lord Jesus Christ returns, having put down all rule and authority to deliver up the kingdom to God, will our warfare against antichrist cease. Then comes the consummation and our true Sabbath of rest.
Quote from: Paul
1st Corinthians 2:13~"Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
We discern the antichrist by carefully comparing scripture with scripture. So who is antichrist? He is Satan, and he is the professing Christian with his spirit of disobedience, who is in opposition to Christ and in doctrine and works deny Him. He is not the body of Christ, but a substitute or false christ. There were many antichrists throughout the last days of the New Testament so his origin is not solely a present-day phenomenon. He is Satan who comes as an angel or messenger of light, and he is Satan's army, those whom he commands, who come as ministers of righteousness (See and consider: 2nd Cor.inthians 11:14-15). And it is NO great thing that this is so since the mystery of iniquity has been at work since the very beginning of time and has worked greater or less throughout this world's history ONLY to increase greatly at the very end as never before in the history of this world for the Devil will come down KNOWING that he has a short time to do his evil deeds. 
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 08:02:49
Hi RB,

You are COMPLETELY IGNORING the fact that John said in Revelation 12:12 that the devil’s “SHORT TIME” of oppressing the inhabitants of the earth and sea had ALREADY BEGUN at the very time he was writing.  The devil had great wrath because he knew back then that his time to exist and do his deception of the nations was limited only to that present “LITTLE SEASON”.  After that, God had promised to slay him; a fact which was producing Satan’s urgency back in those days.

You are transporting that first-century “SHORT TIME” and “LITTLE SEASON” into our modern days, and it can’t be done.  That’s because of the *PRESENT TENSE* LANGUAGE that John was using for a current short period of time for Satan’s existence back in HIS days, not ours.  He said that “the Devil *IS* COME down unto you...”

Moreover, you have your conditions for the end of history flipped upside down.  The kingdom of God ADVANCES more and more towards the close of fallen man’s history.  It does not implode at that time, as you are presenting.  That “implosion” you are recognizing was the first century Great Tribulation period - a specific time, not to be confused with later periods of ordinary tribulation for the saints of God.   Your doom-and-gloom paradigm with Satan’s deceptive work prevailing and increasing until the end of human history is running directly counter to the examples Christ gave of the mustard seed, the growth of leaven, Daniel’s growing rock, and the INCREASE of Christ’s government and peace as human history progresses towards its culmination of the final resurrection.

Moreover, you still have not addressed why there is CONTINUED HUMAN HISTORY that comes *AFTER* THE GREAT TRIBULATION AND CHRIST’S RETURN.  Remember? That Great Tribulation with its “false christs” was supposed to be like no other tribulation before it, but also like no other period of tribulation AFTER IT (Matt 24:21).  “No, nor EVER *SHALL* BE”.

Moreover, you are skipping over the fact that the actual physical Temple in Jerusalem with its “SECRET CHAMBERS” (that collected  donated funds for dispersing charitable goods to the poor in Israel) was going to still be in existence when those “false christs and false prophets” were manifested (Matt. 24:24-26).  These “secret chambers” are speaking of the LITERAL JERUSALEM TEMPLE LOCATION - not a symbolic reference to the church in our days.

Oddly enough, it is usually the Full Preterist who is accused of assigning a symbolic and metaphoric meaning to everything prophetic.  But that is exactly what you are doing, RB.  Nothing is literal at all with your eschatological interpretations - everything is only a symbol of something else. 

Pregnant women, or nursing women aren’t really females with a nursing baby. 

Fleeing Judea for the mountains isn’t really going on the run as a refugee - for you, its believers leaving corrupt church doctrine instead. 

Famines and earthquakes and pestilences?  Not literal with you. 

Beatings in the synagogues, imprisonment, and being delivered up to high priest rulers, and the council of the Sanhedrin?  Nah, only symbolic in your thinking.   By the way, when was the last time you were beaten in a synagogue or imprisoned?

The city of Jerusalem being “surrounded by armies” interpreted by Luke as being the “abomination of desolation”?  Just a metaphor supposedly.

The “goodly stones” of Jerusalem’s Temple all being thrown down?  Symbolic only in your understanding.

This is all a bit imbalanced.  You are working overtime to erase all of Christ’s clear-cut warnings of impending spiritual AND physical troubles for that first century’s imminent expectation.  I can appreciate that you have spent some 50 years trying to refine your position on these things.  That’s a lot of effort.  But personally, I have had to toss out almost 50 years of eschatological error from my youth upwards.  It can be done, if necessary to follow where truth leads,  which I know is your overriding concern.

Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 08:53:02
Pregnant women, or nursing women aren’t really females with a nursing baby. 

Fleeing Judea for the mountains isn’t really going on the run as a refugee - for you, its believers leaving corrupt church doctrine instead. 

Famines and earthquakes and pestilences?  Not literal with you. 

Beatings in the synagogues, imprisonment, and being delivered up to high priest rulers, and the council of the Sanhedrin?  Nah, only symbolic in your thinking.   By the way, when was the last time you were beaten in a synagogue or imprisoned?

The city of Jerusalem being “surrounded by armies” interpreted by Luke as being the “abomination of desolation”?  Just a metaphor supposedly.

The “goodly stones” of Jerusalem’s Temple all being thrown down?  Symbolic only in your understanding.
I did address your question concerning the sabbath day and in winter fleeing when they saw the abomination of desolation~in another thread, which I will go THERE and finish Matthew 24 and WILL address every point you are bringing up in this thread~ NO PROBLEM
Quote from: 3 Resurrections on: Today at 08:02:49
Symbolic only in your understanding.
NOT if one can take the SCRIPTURES ALONE and prove the use of Jesus' words, which we can do. Are not Daniel and Revelation BOTH written using highly symbolical language? Especially so is Revelation~and MUCH of Jesus' teaching was done in this fashion.
Quote
John 16:29~"His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb."
Quite often he did, and I could give many, many proofs of this.  I must be off to some meetings....later, RB
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 11:42:44
Hi RB,

What I would rather you addressed are the TIME LIMITATIONS connected to the following points that I brought out that you have yet to give an explanation for.  I have emphasized these points several times, but all I hear is a deafening silence from you about them.

#1)  The Devil’s THEN-PRESENT “SHORT TIME” and “LITTLE SEASON” that was already in place as John was writing back then (Rev.12:12).   Likewise how long scripture limits that “short time” and “little season” to be (i.e., shorter than the 40 years that make a “long season”).

#2)  The increasing ADVANCE of God’s kingdom towards the close of human history - not the disintegration and corruption of that kingdom that were present during the last days of the first century’s Great Tribulation.

#3)  The fact that an extended span of history with other periods of regular tribulation for the saints FOLLOWS AFTER the Great Tribulation along with Christ’s IMMEDIATE return coming at the end of that Great Tribulation (Matt. 24:21 & 29-31).

#4)  The actual still-existing presence of Jerusalem’s “secret chambers” where the first-century anti-christs were rumored to be appearing (Matt. 24:26).  These “secret chambers” of the physical Jerusalem Temple were destroyed when God threw down every one of the actual “goodly stones” that composed the physical temple structure, which the Jews had idolized.

#5)  Your failure to acknowledge SCRIPTURE’S OWN DEFINITION in Ezekiel 12:21-28 of what an “AT HAND” prophecy means (particularly in reference to all of Revelation’s unsealed prophecies that were then “at hand” - Rev.1:3 & 22:10). 

Your Idealist pattern of symbolizing literally EVERYTHING eschatological ignores the very clear TIME CONSTRAINTS that scripture places on these things.  You have to turn a blind eye to all these time markers in order to arrive at the conclusions that you have developed.  In this you have surpassed even the hyper Full Preterists, who are generally derided for their totally symbolic view of the resurrection of the body (and rightly so on that one point).
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: RB on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 13:27:46
What I would rather you addressed are the TIME LIMITATIONS connected to the following points that I brought out that you have yet to give an explanation for.  I have emphasized these points several times, but all I hear is a deafening silence from you about them.
That's a lie~this is the first time that you have worded your points in that manner, maybe a point here and there over a period of two to three years~and not really sure if I did or did not~I did answer your question on Matthew 24:20 with no response back from you.....I cannot remember where thread that was, or its topic, but it was only in the past two to three weeks ~which I did not take personally~which I did sense a little of an upset spirit from you after I finished posting on the antichrist spirit you believe that there is no evil fallen spirit in this world post 70 A.D.~ you believe they were ALL destroyed in 70 A.D. including the DEVIL HIMSELF~which is the most corrupt doctrine among your many on eschatology. You posted:  http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/end-times-forum/is-satan-bound-today/ Replies 7  and 10~Okay, let me look at this and see if we need to find that post, or start a new one, or just do it on this one.....later.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Ant-Christ, does he has a name what is he to you?
Post by: dpr on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 15:26:40
No RB, that did not at all address the point I am making.

Here’s what we know for certain.  The “Great Tribulation” would never be duplicated at any time in history either prior to it, or subsequent to that period.  “...such as had not been since the beginning of the world until now, NOR EVER WILL BE.” (Matt. 24:21).  History as we know it would keep marching onward for humanity on this planet even after the “Great Tribulation”.
....

I beg to differ. Your last statement (underlined) certainly is not true. It is only an assumption based on the doctrine you've chosen to follow.

Dan 12:1-2
12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
KJV

That "time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time" is what our Lord Jesus was pointing to with the Matt.24 "great tribulation". Daniel 12:1 links it to the very end of this world, because it is pointing to deliverance of Christ's faithful, and the resurrection, which is for the very end of this world.


Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: dpr on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 16:10:18
For those who can receive it, the final Antichrist will be the devil himself, here on earth, in plain sight. And his angels are coming here with him.


John 12:31
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
KJV

John 14:30
30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in Me.
KJV


Many brethren argue over that idea of Satan being 'cast out', thinking it means he was bound in the pit at Christ's crucifixion. That's not what our Lord Jesus meant though. He was pointing to the Revelation 12:7-9 event, which is still in our near future. And then that John 14:30 example shows how He meant that 'cast out' also, applies to Satan being who is coming, meaning here on earth in person.

Remove the blinders. Don't think for one minute that Satan can only come here on earth as a spirit to possess someone in a flesh body. That idea is actually one of his deceptions his children use today.

Satan, as with all the angels, has the outward image likeness of man, for that image comes from our Heavenly Father, and that means from the Heavenly dimension. Even the Archangel Gabriel's name means 'man of God'.

This is the casting out our Lord Jesus was pointing to...

Rev 12:7-12
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

That has not happened yet. It is in what is called the prophetic perfect tense, which speaks of an event that's yet future as though it already happened. Further Scripture here will show this.

That idea, "neither was their place found any more in heaven" is very important to grasp. That is pointing to the difference between the two dimensions, this earthly vs. the heavenly where God and His angels dwell. When this casting out happens, Satan's place in Heaven will be no longer. He will not be allowed to appear before God's throne and accuse brethren like he did in the Book of Job. It means the only other... place he can go, is to this earthly dimension we live in, here on earth in plain sight.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10  And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

Salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ, will come IN HEAVEN then, because the devil and his angels will be cast out of the heavenly dimension, and not allowed back in. He won't be able to appear before God's throne and accuse us anymore.

The fact that "the power of His Christ" is mentioned at this event reveals this event could not have happened prior to Christ's death and resurrection. That places this event to be sometime after... Christ's death and crucifixion. The next verse will give us a more specific timing for this event of Satan's casting out of Heaven...

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

And there it is, the event of brethren being persecuted at the end of this world, which is the 5th Seal of Revelation 6. That event our Lord Jesus also pointed to for the end in His Olivet discourse.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
KJV

That "short time" is about the very end, the short time of "great tribulation" our Lord Jesus warned us about in His Olivet discourse.

Revelation 12:9 gave other titles for Satan used in Revelation, i.e., the dragon, that old serpent.

In Revelation 13:11, the 2nd beast, a beast king that comes up out of the earth, speaks like a "dragon".

In Revelation 12:3, we are shown the "great red dragon" that had seven heads, ten horns, and seven crowns, drew a third part of the stars (angels) to earth with him. The number of crowns there is different than the beast in Revelation 13 which is to have ten crowns. Rev.12:3-4 is thus pointing to Satan's rebellion of old, before the foundation of this world. If you don't understand this, then you've got some Bible studying to do. Our Lord is actually showing you in Rev.12:3-4 what Satan did at his first rebellion and sin against God, that he is going to try and do it again at the end of this world, which is what the Rev.13 system is about.

In Revelation 12:15, the "serpent" cast out of his mouth water AS a flood after the woman, pointing symbolically to lies. Then the "dragon" (same one as that serpent, i.e., Satan himself), becomes wroth and goes to make war with the remnant of the woman's seed, i.e., Christ's Church, those who keep God's commandments and have the TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST.

In Revelation 13:4-8, we are shown the whole world will worship the "dragon", excepting Christ's elect. And that dragon will blaspheme God's name, those in Heaven, and he will have power over all nations and peoples for 42 months.

Again, who is the "dragon" per Rev.12:9? It is Satan himself.

In Revelation 13:11-14, we are shown that "another beast" that will speak as a "dragon", will work great wonders on earth, raining fire from heaven down to earth in the sight of men! He will work miracles to deceive the whole world with! So it's bird, it's plane, its a pope, it's a mahdi, nope... it is Satan de facto, in person, here on earth in plain sight. He is coming with his angels, just as Apostle Paul also hinted to this future event in 2 Cor.11 that Satan disguises himself as an angel of light, and his ministers and ministers of righteousness.






Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: 3 Resurrections on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 22:24:51
Hi dpr,

Responding to your reply #74 above...

Of course, Daniel 12:1 and Matt. 24:21 are both describing the very same period of unparalleled Great Tribulation, with Matt. 24:21 going a step further by saying that there would never be any FUTURE period of tribulation AFTER THAT Great Tribulation which would ever be able to equal the severity of the former one.  And of course, both Dan. 12:1 and Matt. 24:21 each conclude with the same resurrection at Christ’s second coming return, which happens  immediately after that great Tribulation.

We can’t ignore those FUTURE periods of regular tribulation for the saints (following Christ’s second coming return) which Matthew 24:21 speaks about.  These periods of normal tribulation prove that there must be yet another resurrection at a third coming of Christ AFTER Christ’s second coming return.  That is because God leaves none of the bodies of His saints behind in the grave.  It’s an assumption based on the normal understanding of the English language in this verse - not an invention of mine.  God “harvests” and changes to incorruptible the dead bodies of His saints on 3 separate occasions, with two of these events having already been accomplished.

As for the two verses you submitted (John 12:31 and 14:30), you might want to pay special attention to the word “NOW” which applied to the time Christ was speaking back then.  Satan was going to be cast out at the ascension of Christ on His resurrection day.  The salvation of man came and the power of Christ was manifested when He raised Himself from the dead by the Spirit.  We currently have no more accuser of the brethren in heaven, and haven’t had this since Satan was cast out of heaven with his angels at Christ’s ascension.

The Rev. 12 casting out of heaven for the Devil and his angels is a past event.  It is dated to Passover week of AD 33 after the blood of the Lamb was offered by our high priest in heaven that morning after his resurrection.  It’s not a future event.
Title: Re: What is the name of the Anti-Christ, does he have a name?
Post by: dpr on Tue Feb 25, 2020 - 23:06:37
....

We can’t ignore those FUTURE periods of regular tribulation for the saints (following Christ’s second coming return) which Matthew 24:21 speaks about.  These periods of normal tribulation prove that there must be yet another resurrection at a third coming of Christ AFTER Christ’s second coming return.  That is because God leaves none of the bodies of His saints behind in the grave.  It’s an assumption based on the normal understanding of the English language in this verse - not an invention of mine.  God “harvests” and changes to incorruptible the dead bodies of His saints on 3 separate occasions, with two of these events having already being accomplished.

Your first paragraph aligned with the Scripture.

But your second paragraph does not.

When Jesus returns, it's all over. The resurrection on the last day spoken of in The Gospel happens right then, and then Christ begins His "thousand years" reign with His elect over all the nations, over the whole earth. Thus there is only ONE more coming of Christ Jesus, and that is when all tribulation against His saints will be over too, forever.