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Offline Hobie

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What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
« on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 08:24:54 »
The "time of Jacob's trouble" comes from Jeremiah 30:7...

Jeremiah 30:7 King James Version (KJV)
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.


In previous verses, God promised He would someday restore His people to their land....

Jeremiah 30:1-6 King James Version (KJV)

1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying,
2 Thus speaketh the Lord God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.
3 For, lo, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the Lord: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
4 And these are the words that the Lord spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah.
5 For thus saith the Lord; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.
6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?


Despite a great time of distress the Lord would save them from it...

Jeremiah 30:8-11 King James Version (KJV)

8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:
9 But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.
10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the Lord; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
11 For I am with thee, saith the Lord, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.


The imagery in the Jeremiah passage most closely resembles the predictions given by Jesus in Matthew 24....

Matthew 24:3-22 King James Version (KJV)

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


We see it in other verses...

Luke 21:22-27 King James Version (KJV)

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.


1 Thessalonians 5:3 King James Version (KJV)

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.


And compare these....

Jeremiah 51:6-9 King James Version (KJV)

6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the Lord's vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.
7 Babylon hath been a golden cup in the Lord's hand, that made all the earth drunken: the nations have drunken of her wine; therefore the nations are mad.
8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed: howl for her; take balm for her pain, if so be she may be healed.
9 We would have healed Babylon, but she is not healed: forsake her, and let us go every one into his own country: for her judgment reacheth unto heaven, and is lifted up even to the skies.


Revelation 18:2-10 King James Version (KJV)

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

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What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
« on: Sat Jan 16, 2021 - 08:24:54 »

Offline RB

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Re: What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
« Reply #1 on: Sun Jan 31, 2021 - 04:20:38 »
Quote
Re: What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
Hobie, I would discuss this subject with you "if" you would stay around long enough to do so. You always post and then leave, or go on to another subject, very seldom do you truly enter into a serious discussion as Amo does.
Quote
Re: What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
It is the time when beast makes war with the saints and overcomes them, but NOT totally, for fire shall come down from heaven and destroy Mystery Babylon.
Quote
Revelation 13:1-7~"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."
Quote
Revalation 20:7-9~"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."
Jacob IS the beloved city of ZION, the time of Jacob's trouble will take place at the end of this world during the little season when Satan's restraint is removed~this period as far as I understand and can reasonably say started shortly after the beginning of the nineteen century when Mystery Babylon was flooded with some of its most corrupt professing churches, such as Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, SDA, Christian Science, and, Pentecostalism in all of its forms and a host of others. You folks want to limit Mystery Babylon to Catholicism while excluding you and many others.


Offline Choir Loft

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Re: What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
« Reply #2 on: Tue Feb 16, 2021 - 07:55:33 »
The "time of Jacob's trouble" comes from Jeremiah 30:7...

[...... edited out a lot of jibberish here....]

Jeremiah 30:7 King James Version (KJV)
Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.


As usual we are being treated here to a whole lot of post-protestant Roman Catholic rhetoric.  

About ninety per-cent of pseudo End Times doctrine is borrowed from Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera (1537-1591).  That doctrine was commissioned by the Roman Catholic church as a response to the writings of the protestant reformation.   If the reader wants to look it up, the doctrine is historically known as FUTURISM.   It assumes a fanciful End Times story that hasn't happened in real time and most likely won't happen at all.  The most significant pieces of that doctrine, all of which is false, is a description of the tribulation, rapture and Replacement Theology also known as Supersessionism.   Look it up.   You won't loose your salvation if you learn something new and true.

The section of Jeremiah quoted above comes from chapter 30.  The interpretation is totally out of context, but completely in line with RCC doctrine. 

At the time Jeremiah wrote he was living in and around the city of Jerusalem.  AT THE SAME TIME, the prophet Ezekiel was living in Babylon.  Both men wrote of the captivity of Jews taken from Judah, the southern kingdom, to Babylon.  Actually there were two captivities of Jews, the second being almost total eviction of Jews from their homeland.  Jeremiah wrote two books - one we know as the book of Jeremiah and the other as Lamentations.  The second book is a form of ancient poetry written in prose.  For those unfamiliar with poetry, that form doesn't rhyme like a child's limerick. 

Lamentations aside, (and I do recommend a study of it for the sake of appreciating that form of ancient literature), the general outline of the book of Jeremiah is in two parts.  The first part chronicles the fall of Jerusalem and captivity of Jews to Babylon.  The second part of the book of Jeremiah expresses hope that el-Shaddai (a Jewish name for God) would mercifully bring the Jews back from Babylonian captivity and bless them in the land He gave.  The Lord DID open the way for Jews to return to Jerusalem from Babylon, but the majority of them refused to go ... to return.  Only a very few made the return journey.

The portion of chapter 30 quoted above is from the second part of Jeremiah's book.  It promises restoration of Jews from Babylonian captivity.  It DOES NOT refer to RCC doctrine of the tribulation and it DOES NOT refer to making aliyah.  (Look up "making aliyah".   The exercise will be good for you.)

We must be cautious when we vomit slogans and religious notions without a full and complete understanding of the origins of the ideas we promote.  Independent study of God's word and history offers a clear idea of ancient times and the words used by those who lived them.  Most Christians study middle-school level Bible materials (fighting to stay awake the whole time).  That's if they study at all, which most don't. Most Christians prefer to memorize a few slogans and buzz words and content themselves that they know something they are completely ignorant about.   The number of cars in a church parking lot on Bible study day are typically a fraction of those parked during worship services.  Christians simply don't want to learn anything new.   They constantly regurgitate children's stories and that's it....except for the fact they continually argue about particular points of their Biblical illiteracy.  They argue because they don't know the facts and prefer to juggle false interpretations instead. 

Don't believe me?  How many people do you know got saved because of End Times doctrines?  Did they repent of their SINS and seek God because they wanted a ride on the rapture, or did they surrender to Christ because of His life and death and resurrection from the cross?   What is important here and what is nonsensical?  This is the meaning of rightly dividing the Word of God.  Dividing has nothing to do with swallowing RCC doctrine hook line and sinker.

Study the Bible.  In most cases it interprets itself.

Read Jeremiah again...the whole book.   You will see as I did there are two obvious sections and that they FOCUS upon the Jewish issues with Babylon at that time.   

God never abandoned His people Israel. 
He didn't then and He hasn't today. 
RCC would have us believe otherwise (and ask for donation$ along the way).

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

« Last Edit: Tue Feb 16, 2021 - 08:14:17 by Choir Loft »

Offline Hobie

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Re: What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
« Reply #3 on: Wed Feb 17, 2021 - 06:34:02 »
Hobie, I would discuss this subject with you "if" you would stay around long enough to do so. You always post and then leave, or go on to another subject, very seldom do you truly enter into a serious discussion as Amo does. It is the time when beast makes war with the saints and overcomes them, but NOT totally, for fire shall come down from heaven and destroy Mystery Babylon. Jacob IS the beloved city of ZION, the time of Jacob's trouble will take place at the end of this world during the little season when Satan's restraint is removed~this period as far as I understand and can reasonably say started shortly after the beginning of the nineteen century when Mystery Babylon was flooded with some of its most corrupt professing churches, such as Mormonism, Jehovah Witnesses, SDA, Christian Science, and, Pentecostalism in all of its forms and a host of others. You folks want to limit Mystery Babylon to Catholicism while excluding you and many others.
Babylon has always been what came out of Rome which is the system of paganism all the way from Babylon if you just check your history and it has continued in the Roman Catholic system of pagan worship and day, which anyone can see if they just look.

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Re: What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
« Reply #3 on: Wed Feb 17, 2021 - 06:34:02 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Hobie

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Re: What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
« Reply #4 on: Wed Feb 17, 2021 - 06:39:49 »
As usual we are being treated here to a whole lot of post-protestant Roman Catholic rhetoric.  

About ninety per-cent of pseudo End Times doctrine is borrowed from Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera (1537-1591).  That doctrine was commissioned by the Roman Catholic church as a response to the writings of the protestant reformation.   If the reader wants to look it up, the doctrine is historically known as FUTURISM.   It assumes a fanciful End Times story that hasn't happened in real time and most likely won't happen at all.  The most significant pieces of that doctrine, all of which is false, is a description of the tribulation, rapture and Replacement Theology also known as Supersessionism.   Look it up.   You won't loose your salvation if you learn something new and true.

The section of Jeremiah quoted above comes from chapter 30.  The interpretation is totally out of context, but completely in line with RCC doctrine. 

At the time Jeremiah wrote he was living in and around the city of Jerusalem.  AT THE SAME TIME, the prophet Ezekiel was living in Babylon.  Both men wrote of the captivity of Jews taken from Judah, the southern kingdom, to Babylon.  Actually there were two captivities of Jews, the second being almost total eviction of Jews from their homeland.  Jeremiah wrote two books - one we know as the book of Jeremiah and the other as Lamentations.  The second book is a form of ancient poetry written in prose.  For those unfamiliar with poetry, that form doesn't rhyme like a child's limerick. 

Lamentations aside, (and I do recommend a study of it for the sake of appreciating that form of ancient literature), the general outline of the book of Jeremiah is in two parts.  The first part chronicles the fall of Jerusalem and captivity of Jews to Babylon.  The second part of the book of Jeremiah expresses hope that el-Shaddai (a Jewish name for God) would mercifully bring the Jews back from Babylonian captivity and bless them in the land He gave.  The Lord DID open the way for Jews to return to Jerusalem from Babylon, but the majority of them refused to go ... to return.  Only a very few made the return journey.

The portion of chapter 30 quoted above is from the second part of Jeremiah's book.  It promises restoration of Jews from Babylonian captivity.  It DOES NOT refer to RCC doctrine of the tribulation and it DOES NOT refer to making aliyah.  (Look up "making aliyah".   The exercise will be good for you.)

We must be cautious when we vomit slogans and religious notions without a full and complete understanding of the origins of the ideas we promote.  Independent study of God's word and history offers a clear idea of ancient times and the words used by those who lived them.  Most Christians study middle-school level Bible materials (fighting to stay awake the whole time).  That's if they study at all, which most don't. Most Christians prefer to memorize a few slogans and buzz words and content themselves that they know something they are completely ignorant about.   The number of cars in a church parking lot on Bible study day are typically a fraction of those parked during worship services.  Christians simply don't want to learn anything new.   They constantly regurgitate children's stories and that's it....except for the fact they continually argue about particular points of their Biblical illiteracy.  They argue because they don't know the facts and prefer to juggle false interpretations instead. 

Don't believe me?  How many people do you know got saved because of End Times doctrines?  Did they repent of their SINS and seek God because they wanted a ride on the rapture, or did they surrender to Christ because of His life and death and resurrection from the cross?   What is important here and what is nonsensical?  This is the meaning of rightly dividing the Word of God.  Dividing has nothing to do with swallowing RCC doctrine hook line and sinker.

Study the Bible.  In most cases it interprets itself.

Read Jeremiah again...the whole book.   You will see as I did there are two obvious sections and that they FOCUS upon the Jewish issues with Babylon at that time.   

God never abandoned His people Israel. 
He didn't then and He hasn't today. 
RCC would have us believe otherwise (and ask for donation$ along the way).

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Christ Himself shows us that many of these text in the Old Testament were prophecies that were to be fulfilled or He Himself fulfilled, so need to look a little deeper.

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Re: What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
« Reply #4 on: Wed Feb 17, 2021 - 06:39:49 »



Offline Hobie

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Re: What is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
« Reply #5 on: Wed Feb 17, 2021 - 06:40:55 »
We are seeing some of the signs as the cold in Texas has shut down Nuclear, Coal, Liquid Gas Power Plants and even Wind power turbines generating electricity with century breaking temperatures...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-storm-power-outage-11613425923

https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-power-outages-after-deep-freeze-prompt-governor-to-urge-probe-11613513090

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Power-tight-across-Texas-winter-storm-blackouts-15953686.php

With people out of power and water for days and seeing icicles inside their homes...

https://www.unilad.co.uk/viral/frozen-ceiling-fan-photo-shows-brutal-reality-of-american-cold-snap/