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Offline jobe

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2010, 11:21:42 AM »
Please let us stick with the scripture

“And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2010, 11:21:42 AM »

Offline mclees8

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2010, 04:37:32 PM »
Please let us stick with the scripture

“And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2010, 04:37:32 PM »

Offline jobe

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #32 on: September 16, 2010, 03:47:27 PM »
I am sorry, if I somehow become rude to you, I only want to show one more Christian brother who can persuade others to see what I think I see. As of being one sided vision I will prey on it tonight to God, who give wisdom and open secret for humbles. I already written above in a paragraph  why the great Harlot of REV 17 is Istanbul, Turky, but if you have a time and like to read all, specially about God mind and about the universe story from the beginning to the end as Jesus reviled to us here is the link https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=1f3NJZ4L2eRkejoMuWtHWTRITMjDZUrEit19DqmGHbYY&sort=name&layout=list&num=50

For you said can you can not know the mind of Gods wisdom, and you are right no body can, expect what he revile to us, but here we are taking about the behavior of God and the story of his creation, for that God himself personally reviled to us that is Jesus is God

here some verses

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. (john 1:1-5)

Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. ) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then,]Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. (John 14:8-11)

Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. (John 8:19)

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. (john 15:14-15)

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2010, 07:59:09 AM »
Israel and the Church are both referred to as women throughout the scriptures.  The prophecy of Gen. 3:15 embraces the church of both the old and the new covenants, and the struggle or war between them and their leader Christ, and those of this world and their leader Satan.

Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The woman and her seed are those who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus. Christ's church, that is, those who are in this world, but worship and live for Christ, are prophetically referred to as a woman, or the seed of a woman. However, there are two separate woman referred to in the scriptures, in regards to the church. There is a pure woman, or virgin, and there is the harlot, or whore. These two woman represent either the true church, or an apostate church. This terminology is used in both the old and new testaments in reference to those who claim to be God's people.

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

Jer 2:20 For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.
 
Jer 3:1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.
2 Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness.

Jer 3:6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Ezek 16:14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

Ezek 16:28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.
29 Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.

Hosea 4:15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Bethaven, nor swear, The LORD liveth.
16 For Israel slideth back as a backsliding heifer: now the LORD will feed them as a lamb in a large place.
17 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.
18 Their drink is sour: they have committed whoredom continually: her rulers with shame do love, Give ye.
19 The wind hath bound her up in her wings, and they shall be ashamed because of their
sacrifices.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.


Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication , and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
 
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

These are some of the scriptures that refer to Israel, and the new covenant church in an apostate condition.  We will now examine some of the scriptures referring to Israel, or the church as a woman, and bride.

Isa 62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.


John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
 
Matt 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.

Jer 3:13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.
14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Isa 37:22 This is the word which the LORD hath spoken concerning him; The virgin, the daughter of Zion, hath despised thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee.

Jer 14:17 Therefore thou shalt say this word unto them; Let mine eyes run down with tears night and day, and let them not cease: for the virgin daughter of my people is broken with a great breach, with a very grievous blow.

Jer 31:2 Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.

Jer 31:21 Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Israel, turn again to these thy cities.
22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

Lam 1:15 The Lord hath trodden under foot all my mighty men in the midst of me: he hath called an assembly against me to crush my young men: the Lord hath trodden the virgin, the daughter of Judah, as in a winepress.

Lam 2:13 What thing shall I take to witness for thee? what thing shall I liken to thee, O daughter of Jerusalem? what shall I equal to thee, that I may comfort thee, O virgin daughter of Zion? for thy breach is great like the sea: who can heal thee?

Amos 5:1 Hear ye this word which I take up against you, even a lamentation, O house of Israel.
2 The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up.

Matt 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 Cor 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
 
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


Christ left His Father in heaven, and became one flesh with humanity. He brought humanity and divinity together. This is the gospel. Those who accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal savior, enter into a relationship with the Lord that is symbolized by marriage. The two become one. This is salvation. For this reason, the church is referred to as a woman, that has been married, or betrothed to the Lord. They have entered into the deepest relationship possible. They are in Christ, and Christ is in them.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;[/b] and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The bride is ready, when she has received the clean and white linen of the righteousness of Christ. This righteousness is the gift of God, to those who have entered into this love relationship with Him.

Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


It has been, and is a favorite accomplishment of the Devil, to bring those of the old and new covenant churches to such a condition of apostasy that they are referred to as harlots, or whores by God’s word.  While in this condition, they very often end up persecuting God’s true Church of their time.  We can see this clearly in the writings of the old testament, and the warnings in the new regarding the same.  An examination of history since the new covenant clearly reveals the same struggle among many professing Christians.  The persecution of God’s people by the world, and by others claiming to also be God’s people throughout history, is the epic struggle depicted in the prophecy of Gen. 3:15.  This struggle will continue until Christ returns and puts down all rebellion against His authority.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2010, 07:59:09 AM »
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Offline mclees8

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2010, 09:44:30 AM »
 
Answering Jobe

This is an artical in part that i have come across that supports what i have said jobe
It saves me a lot of writing. There is more but i cannot past that much here

Please remember, for me Babylon encompasses the whole world system in these three components and has existed sense the fall of man. Religious Babylon, political Babylon, commercial Babylon. As the article states we see them in REV 17 & 18


Babylon as Seen in Scripture: An Introduction to Rev 17-18
By: J. Hampton Keathley, III Share7 Printer-friendly versionSend to friend
Introduction

Revelation 17 and 18 are two of the most intriguing chapters of the Bible, yet two of the most difficult and disputed. Both of these chapters deal with the subject of Babylon and form a unit of prophetic doctrine, namely, the destruction of Babylon. However, these are two of the most difficult chapters of Revelation to interpret and expositors vary widely in their understanding of this section of the book. Walvoord writes:

Any interpretation of Revelation 17 and 18 is difficult because expositors have not agreed as to the detail of their interpretations. In general, however, it is helpful to consider chapter 17 as dealing with Babylon as an ecclesiastical or spiritual entity and chapter 18 as dealing with Babylon as a political entity.199

While reasons will be given later to support this, two different aspects of Babylon are contemplated in these chapters, two separate aspects of Babylon and her fall (perhaps suggested by the repetition of the phrase “is fallen

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2010, 09:44:30 AM »



Offline mclees8

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2010, 01:25:00 PM »

It has been, and is a favorite accomplishment of the Devil, to bring those of the old and new covenant churches to such a condition of apostasy that they are referred to as harlots, or whores by God’s word.  While in this condition, they very often end up persecuting God’s true Church of their time.  We can see this clearly in the writings of the old testament, and the warnings in the new regarding the same.  An examination of history since the new covenant clearly reveals the same struggle among many professing Christians.  The persecution of God’s people by the world, and by others claiming to also be God’s people throughout history, is the epic struggle depicted in the prophecy of Gen. 3:15.  This struggle will continue until Christ returns and puts down all rebellion against His authority.
 


Mike
Hello Amo I always have respect for your posts It is true that throughout the old and the testament the devil works apostasy. I think for us today it is very important that the church understands the apostasy today, that we recognize what  it is and where its will take us.

We must first look at REV 17 where it describes in great detail a very certain Christian entity. Also the fact that it describes that  entity as wealthy with both religious and political power. Even the most novice Christian would think of only one entity that is Christian that fills all these characteristics. This entity is called the great harlot and the mother of them.  This means that she with her influence has given birth to other churches that have fallen into  apostasy.  What is the apostasy.

We are admonished in the New Testament to not love the world or the things that are of it. Not its religions, not its governments and not its lust for power wealth and materialism. Rev 17 describes this entity as of all these things. It is all that is the world and of the world. religious, political and commercial . In the time i have been a beleiver I have also seen these things at work in many Protestant church as well. The great harlots influence is far reaching, so we see more and more the church looking to politics, wanting politicIiacians in office that most represent are Christian values.

Politicians always vie for the Christian vote but this political desire to bring political solutions to world problems is like hopping in bed with the world. Some may scoff at that but it is courting antichrist. Much of what we see in the church today is big business with all its ambitions and compatition. Has not the church become a harlot along with her mother the great Harlot full of the aboninations of the earth.

Rev 18 describes how the church has become entangled with all this saying babylon has fallen has fallen and God calls for his people to come out of her and be no more partakers of her sins. Put no more faith in the world or its politics and lust for wealth and the material life.

Christian i pray you are hearing What Im saying because i am not saying it, God is 

God bless   

Amo

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2010, 07:16:31 PM »
Quote
Mike
Hello Amo I always have respect for your posts It is true that throughout the old and the testament the devil works apostasy. I think for us today it is very important that the church understands the apostasy today, that we recognize what  it is and where its will take us.

We must first look at REV 17 where it describes in great detail a very certain Christian entity. Also the fact that it describes that  entity as wealthy with both religious and political power. Even the most novice Christian would think of only one entity that is Christian that fills all these characteristics. This entity is called the great harlot and the mother of them.  This means that she with her influence has given birth to other churches that have fallen into  apostasy.  What is the apostasy.

We are admonished in the New Testament to not love the world or the things that are of it. Not its religions, not its governments and not its lust for power wealth and materialism. Rev 17 describes this entity as of all these things. It is all that is the world and of the world. religious, political and commercial . In the time i have been a beleiver I have also seen these things at work in many Protestant church as well. The great harlots influence is far reaching, so we see more and more the church looking to politics, wanting politicIiacians in office that most represent are Christian values.

Politicians always vie for the Christian vote but this political desire to bring political solutions to world problems is like hopping in bed with the world. Some may scoff at that but it is courting antichrist. Much of what we see in the church today is big business with all its ambitions and compatition. Has not the church become a harlot along with her mother the great Harlot full of the abominations of the earth.

Rev 18 describes how the church has become entangled with all this saying babylon has fallen has fallen and God calls for his people to come out of her and be no more partakers of her sins. Put no more faith in the world or its politics and lust for wealth and the material life.

Christian i pray you are hearing What Im saying because i am not saying it, God is 

God bless 

I agree with the above Mike.  The last confederation of rebellion against God from this world will include all of fallen humanity, it’s governments, and religions.  They will unite in a final affront to God and His authority.  This event however, will include not only the adulterous relationship of apostate “Christianity

Offline jobe

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2010, 06:04:19 PM »
The woman clothed with the sun- woman symbolizes a city where a religious people live and spread their doctrine, “And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 10:28:31 AM by jobe »

Offline Brooktrout

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2010, 04:44:55 AM »
I think Babylon the Great is all rolled into to a one world government, economy and religion. I think sometimes we make things more difficult then they are and do not think the Lord intended for it to be such a mystery as some think it is. I think it is pretty clear.

Here are some great resources and sermons on this subject.

http://www.gty.org/search/resources/What+is+Babylon+the+Great

Offline jonebgood

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2010, 11:52:10 PM »
What is the fastest growing religion in the world and now the worlds biggest?
What is the greatest persecuting religion in the world at this time?
What religion is calling for the destruction and removal of the Jewish people from the face of the earth, and killing Christians whenever possible?
Simple it is Islam.

Defended by governors, a President, and for the most part the UN.


Visionary

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #40 on: October 11, 2010, 12:04:11 AM »
Isaiah 3:12-26     ::drama::
 
Youths oppress my people, women rule over them. O my people, your guides lead you astray; they turn you from the path.


2Peter 2:1-10 3:3


 

Offline marc

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #41 on: October 11, 2010, 01:25:21 AM »
What is the fastest growing religion in the world and now the worlds biggest?
What is the greatest persecuting religion in the world at this time?
What religion is calling for the destruction and removal of the Jewish people from the face of the earth, and killing Christians whenever possible?
Simple it is Islam.

Defended by governors, a President, and for the most part the UN.



It wasn't only Bush that defended Islam, he was just the most vocal. Others have as well.

You did mean Bush, didn't you? ??? ???

Offline marc

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2010, 01:25:50 AM »
Isaiah 3:12-26     ::drama::
 
Youths oppress my people, women rule over them. O my people, your guides lead you astray; they turn you from the path.


2Peter 2:1-10 3:3


 

What in the world are you talking about?

Babylon and on.

Offline jonebgood

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #43 on: October 11, 2010, 05:31:23 PM »
No I sure dont mean former President Bush.  I mean the current president, the most anti Isreal, pro Islam president ever. The one who puts a Muslim in charge of homeland security. The one who supports a mosque of triumph at the site of the Towers. 

Offline marc

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #44 on: October 11, 2010, 06:07:19 PM »
No I sure dont mean former President Bush.  I mean the current president, the most anti Isreal, pro Islam president ever. The one who puts a Muslim in charge of homeland security. The one who supports a mosque of triumph at the site of the Towers. 


Then perhaps you need to recheck your facts. Google Bush's statements about Islam, as well as images such as this.



'course he was a white Republican Texan with a name that didn't end in a vowel, so that absolves him.