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Offline jobe

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Who is Babylon the great?
« on: Wed Sep 01, 2010 - 20:33:51 »
Who is Babylon the great? According to The Archangel of Gabriel, “the rough goat is the king of Grecian: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king

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Who is Babylon the great?
« on: Wed Sep 01, 2010 - 20:33:51 »

Offline jobe

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The devil always works hard to look-alike God so that he may fool some of us. The usual best strategy to detect an imitation is to know the root of our belief very well. What is the root our belief? It is the word of faith that mosses wrote as Jesus spoken, “For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.  But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 03, 2011 - 11:22:00 by jobe »

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Offline jobe

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How I understand the meaning of revelation?
« Reply #2 on: Wed Sep 01, 2010 - 20:39:09 »
{Rev 12.1 The woman clothed with the sun and the moon under her feet … and she being with child Cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered, refer to the suffering and the anguish to get deliverance from captive of the mighty and being the prey of the terrible. From the time Adam driven out of the garden of Eden, man try to prove his worthiness for second chance to live with God and his angles in world of perfect peace and happiness as Adam their father did once. This is a question of new age, like an age of good and evil, and new age is like opening a new book as revelation depicted it. In order to get this chance, man tries to prove his perfection by living in according to the word of God in his life time while at the same time trying to communicate by praying to God that he may accept it. This is unacceptable by the ruler of this world, the dragon. It’s a pleading to God to lift up his influence from the shoulders of humanity {Matt 11:28-30}. Thus the dragon, continue to prove there imperfection by restrain their prayer and by leading them through various trials and punishments. This is trial of cruel temptation, mocking and scourging, moreover punishments of bonds, imprisonment and death and so on {Hebrews11:36-39}. Nonetheless, many passed trying and Job as well, “a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 03, 2011 - 11:22:29 by jobe »

Offline jobe

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Time of the tribulation is at hand.
« Reply #3 on: Wed Sep 01, 2010 - 20:53:00 »
What shall be the end of these things? {Dan 12:8} this is rough calculation based on the scripture so that you may study it farther. The two witnesses are the two olive trees and are for sure the Old and New Testaments. They testify a thousand two hundred and threescore days {Rev 11:3}, until the beast kills them. A thousand two hundred and threescore days divided for 360 days gives exactly 3.5 Leviticus years, this also  written as time, and times, and half a time, forty and two months, {Rev 11:2, 9}. The Old Testament is given to mosses about in the year 1446 B.C. according to Bible timeline in www.abiblestudy.com which I found quite reasonable. 1446 B.C multiply  by 365.24days and divide it with 360 days come to 1467 Leviticus years then adding on this the New Testament testifying years 2039 Leviticus years that is after converting 2010 years, sum up to 3506 Leviticus years, and by peter principle of, “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

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Time of the tribulation is at hand.
« Reply #3 on: Wed Sep 01, 2010 - 20:53:00 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline jobe

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An Abomination of desolation is the converting of the new temple which is going to build soon to mosque, that is after the invention Jerusalem  by the Muslim or the people of the prince that shall come {Dan 9:26} then the beast will get in it as written  “that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God

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larry2

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #5 on: Wed Sep 01, 2010 - 21:04:34 »

Parts of this are from Gene Hawkins study of Revelation.

Revelation 14:8 "And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication."

Here she is pictured as a woman and also in Revelation 17:5 she is pictured by a woman, "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH,"

A woman is figurative of a religious system in Revelation 2:18-29, she "Calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols." Now idolatry is one of the major fortes of her religion, it is substitution of Christ, and she indeed is called a harlot here because she is not true unto Christ Himself at all. She claims to be the bride of Christ, but she is by no means that because she has denied His headship.

Then in Revelation 17:6  And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

larry2

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Re: How I understand the meaning of revelation?
« Reply #6 on: Wed Sep 01, 2010 - 21:17:43 »

And you will notice in Revelation 5:5-6 that though Jesus as the Lion of the tribe of Judah prevailed to open the book, it was Jesus as the Lamb slain that took the book from His Father's hand.

Offline jobe

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How horse fight as horsemen?
« Reply #7 on: Thu Sep 02, 2010 - 14:49:27 »
The sixth trumpet

 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. And the number of the army of the horsemen [were] two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses [were] as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.  By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. {Rev 9:19} for their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. {Rev 9:13-19}

Here, they are four angels and with the army of two hundred millions (200,000,000). This is mach larger than the total number of army in the world at this time. The number of an army shows its distractive power, and two hundred millions men of distractive power are so huge that it will point us to the most powerful weapon we ever know to this date. This is nuclear weapon hidden underground facilities, which are bound in the great river Euphrates, and when we look more closely to the descriptions it reasonably fit. 
As we know Horses are carrier of army and in this case they are intercontinental ballistic missiles (ICBMs) which use fuel for thrust to fly thru the dark blue sky emitting fire and smoke that exit through their con shape head (tail) and the fire and smoke left a line which look like quite a serpent and their power determine how far (grade range in distance), and how mach warhead or distractive power can carry, with them they do hurt.
The warheads are horsemen that sat on them. To show that they are connected as one, exactly as intercontinental ballistic missiles, after he depicted the horses’ heads as the heads of lions, For their power is in their mouth, he replace them for the horsemen that suppose to deliver the distractive power as usual. Therefore we read the description of horsemen as the heads of the horses but not separate horseman as usual. And Fire and smoke and brimstone come out of the horses’ heads not from the horsemen.
And then, the distractive power of the warhead which is measured by the term ( ) mega tons symbolized by the number of the army of men, which is quite perfect for all generation and intellectuals differences, and it’s two hundred thousand thousand.
 
The four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, here we read the time is already predetermined to the last hour. The time of one of the big event of the third world war that turn to bring an end to the world, this is to point us that is reveled to Jesus Christ by his father,  and  shows to his servants by sending his angel {Rev 1:1},  has the time in witch the world end. Before this revelation is given to Jesus, while he is here on earth, Jesus said, “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Offline jobe

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who are the beasts? part one
« Reply #8 on: Thu Sep 02, 2010 - 14:54:03 »
The first trumpet
At the time John saw the woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast the angel tells him, the sixth one is reining. He is the beast that thou sawest on which the woman sits and will die or become is not {17:8}, until that the other one wouldn’t come, or the other one that is not yet come {17:10} but later, after the dragon is not or dies, the other one then shall ascend out of the bottomless pit {17:8}, and counted as the eighth and is of the seven {17:11}. That is to say, he is part of the total seven heads, which is the sixths. To say in short, after his death he resurrected, but to show the slight resurrection difference, he avoid saying he himself resurrected, but added the other one. Here is in plain words,

MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, is Istanbul turkey. THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS refers to this; Christianity was the official religion of turkey, all seven churches addressed in the Book of Revelation is found in and around it. However, she completely backslide more than Israel once did {Jeremiah 8:5}, from keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and embrace Islam, which presently constitutes 98 percent of 73 million citizens. In addition of the backsliding, she insult or disgrace God as written and here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sitteth.  {Rev 17:9}, - and upon his heads the name of blasphemy {Rev 13:1}, Istanbul is the woman built on seven mountains (hills) and all seven hills in Istanbul bears a  mosque, which is disgrace to God or a blasphemy. Which in other word inform us to examine Islam more closely?
Islam’s fundamental theological concept is tawhid, one single god, i.e. god has no Son, and Jesus Christ is prophet, not the WORD of God, just a man selected by God to be his messengers as everybody else is. Please bear in mind here that this is exactly the antichrist code. Here, we are not discussing about the God of Israel. The Muslim god is not the God of Israel, According to biblebelievers.org, Allah, the moon-god, represented by a crescent moon, which has three daughters, al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat and considered the chief among gods as al- ilah. Accordingly, it is very atypical to translate the God of Israel who is God of gods, very unique, in to one of chief of god’s name of the pagans for whatsoever reason. We all know how sacred the names of our God are; consequently he will never allow it to be translated to heathen god name, if it is not for our mix-up. Thus when the beast created Islam joyfully embrace the opportunity that gave him the chance to sneak in to the truth which help him to convince Christians as, he is one and same God  of Israel, found in Qur’an with different theological belief system. Nonetheless, he dare not claim the name of God of Israel, YHVH, neither declares Allah is a perfect or Direct translation of Elohim other than making an effort to convince us though its mere resemblance. However, Christian’s believe in truth and warned about resemblance in {2 Corinthians 11:13-15}. The fundamental belief about Qur’an god, “god, the One and Only; god, the Eternal, Absolute; He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 03, 2011 - 11:23:28 by jobe »

Offline jobe

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who are the beasts? part two
« Reply #9 on: Thu Sep 02, 2010 - 14:54:40 »
The Third trumpet
Once the dragon appear in Dubai, he will proclaim The Egyptian king as Isa Al-Maseeh i.e. as Jesus son of Mary himself, who came to correct Christianity and convert the world to Islam and avenge Jews, who sinned against the LORD {Jeremiah 50:7}, that is specially for corrupting the scripture for their own benefits. Despite His Qur’an explicitly states that Bible is the Word of God and no man can change God's Word. The true identity of Isa Al-Maseeh is; he is the king doeth according to his will in {Dan 8:4; 11:3; 11:36}, who he magnifies himself as a God, as it is written in Daniel, “Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory:
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 03, 2011 - 11:23:55 by jobe »

Offline jobe

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Judgment day
« Reply #10 on: Thu Sep 02, 2010 - 14:55:57 »
Judgment

Then after the earth move out of her place, the moon and sun heat increase greatly; “the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days

Amo

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #11 on: Thu Sep 02, 2010 - 18:48:26 »
FRANCESCO PETRARCH, Poet (1304-1374) Concerning the church of Rome.

     “ Vengeaunce must fall on thee, thow filthie whore
Of Babilon,
thow breaker of Christ’s fold,
That from acorns, and from the water colde,
Art riche become with making many poore.
Thow treason’s neste that in thie harte dost holde
Of cankard malice, and of mischief more
Than pen can wryte, or may with tongue be tolde,
Slave to delights that chastity hath solde;
For wyne and ease which settith all thie store
Uppon whoredome and none other lore,
In thye pallais of strompetts yonge and olde
Theare walks Plentie, and Belzebub thye Lorde;
Guydes thee and them, and doth thye raigne uphold:
It is but late, as writing will recorde,
That poore thow weart without lande or goolde;
Yet how hathe golde and pryde, by one accorde,
In wickedness so spreadd thie lyf abrode,
That it dothe stinke before the face of God.

Offline Truth Files

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #12 on: Fri Sep 03, 2010 - 20:54:21 »
Revelation
17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, mystery, Babylon the great, the mother of harlots and abpminations of the earth.

The symbolic meaning of Mystery Babylon the Great is revealed for the first time from the Lord's comprehensive point of view in Revelation 17 and 18. This adultrous [unfaithful] "woman" represents the prevailing condition of lost humanity estranged from Him on a global scale.

This historical and end time view of the Lord is revealed regarding His evaluation of the same and His ultimate intent to bring the rule of earth by a lost civilization to an abrupt ending. [Psalms 2; Daniel 2:31-45; 1Thessalonians 5:1-6; 2Thessalonians 2:1-17; Revelation 6:12-17]

The term Babylon is used symbolically to describe human organizational behavior apart from His providence and direction. Humans began to organize shortly after the flood for the purpose escaping the Lord's intervention and control. [Genesis 10:10; 11:1-9]

They did this by grouping collectively and developing political, social, and false religious systems, etc.; and building cities and related infrastructures.

Post flood inhabitants living in the Tigris and Euphrates river valley believed they could become self-sufficient and create survival measures which would prohibit the Lord's intervention so that they could control their own destiny.

One essential requirement for the accomplishment of their ambitions was a common language which they had. This feature coupled with human intelligence allowed for great potential to move in the direction of self-determination.

The Lord observed their activities, warned them of the consequences, and as a deterrent He confused their language so that they could not understand one another. [Genesis 11:1-9]

This had the temporary effect of halting the building projects and dispersing the people. His action was His way of getting attention and making a point which was soon ignored. Many cities and their collective habitations were eventually constructed in the river valley and beyond.

Some of them became city/states with their own king, government, offensive and defensive military, false religions, culture, and economic trading systems. These then grew into larger dominions, and then into empires by forming alliances and by conquest.

The name Babylon, which is derived from the word "Babel" [confused languages], was the name of the first major city of the ancient Sumerian civilization in the land of Shinar [southern Iraq].

This was also the name of the greater neo-Babylonian Empire which ruled most of the Middle East in the 6th century B.C.. This model of advanced human organizational structure has been repeated many times through out history and exists today as a connected worldwide integration.

The name "Babylon" has been used in scripture to define other cities like Jerusalem because of its intransigence and likeness to the ancient city of Babylon. Jerusalem is defined as a "great city" in the book of Revelation [Revelation 11], but different from the "great city" part of Mystery Babylon the Great [Revelation 17 and 18].

The concept and process of human organization is not the problem. It is the fallen condition of humanity that becomes amplified by the environment created by human interactions and intransigence against the Lord.

Humans have lived in a fallen state of existence since Adam and Eve decided not to trust the Lord's providence and direction [Genesis 3:16-24]. Post-flood populations decided to do the same thing and continued on without regard for His presence. [Genesis 11:1-9]

His warning to Adam and Eve was that they would die physically and spiritually, and would eventually cease to exist if they refused to trust Him and then to separate themselves from Him.

We are all in this same condition and must turn, seek His forgiveness and grace, and receive His gift of eternal life by accepting Him as our Lord and savior. [Romans 1:16-32; 2:1-8]

Mystery Babylon the Great has been and is influenced and controlled by satan who is called the god of this world and of the kingdoms of the nations.

He knows that humans have been created for eventual eternal life and his objective is to deceive them and turn them away from the Lord. All of Mystery Babylon's attributes are vulnerable to satan's manipulations.

The woman in Revelation 17 is Mystery Babylon the Great and she is shown sitting on the heads [dominions, kingdoms] of the beast indicating a connection with the heads.

These heads symbolize successive and specific human kingdoms [dominions] and related king positions; and these dominions contain the lost human civilizations represented by the symbol of the unfaithful "woman".

Satan rules over the seven specific kingdoms presented in the scope of the visions through his beast Abaddon-Apollyon who is another fallen angelic, and they symbolize seven successive dominions which have and will exist in the Middle East. [Revelatyion 13:1, 17:8]

Each of them has a human king "position" that rules the dominion, or kingdom, which represents the geographical extent of the king's influence control.

The "woman" is unsaved organized humanity existing within the domain [kingdom]. Babylon is used symbolically to describe her. She is the prevailing condition of lost humanity over time [she is unfaithful to the Lord].

She also has and does exist in other parts of the world outside of the Middle East, but these dominions are not seen in the scope of the visions recorded in the Bible [many known civilizations of the past are not recorded in the visions].

The exception is her "great city" part [possibly a great nation] seen in the book of Revelation which will be located outside of the Middle East at the time of the end of this present age. [Revelation 17, 18]

This core great city part of lost humanity is seen dominating all of the other nations, their kings, and their cities in the world with specific reference to worldwide economic influence and control.

Abaddon-Apollyon is a fallen angelic prince who influences and rules over all of the seven human king positions and their dominions of the Middle East for satan. His presence is revealed with specific connection to the earth and world of humans centered in the Middle East. [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Micah 5:5; Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 17:8]

The woman is always present as the rule of each dominion falls and the next prevails. Her first five dominion relationships of the past recorded in the scope of Bible prophecy were all centered in the Middle East. [Revelation 17:8]

The Lord reveals her past and future existence in the book of Revelation. In the broader context she represents all of the dominions [nations] and their cities in the world during the coming time of the end.

Her future great city part will be dominant over the sixth dominion of satan's beast located in the Middle East and all of the other nations and their cities in the world at the time of the end.

satan [the dragon], Abaddon-Apollyon [the beast], the human little horn [human king], and the ten other horns [human kings] will hate her great city part and destroy it with fire in one day. This will occur just the beginning of the Lord's coming judgment. [Revelation 8:7-12; 14:8; 17:16-18; 18:1-21]

The Lord will draw satan and his agents to carry out His judgment process against her great city part.

This will be His first direct response and judgment against an unbelieving world of humanity just at the beginning of the coming tribulation period. He will strike at the woman's core civilization [the great city] and destroy it in one hour.

The rest of her dominion relationships of the cities of the nations will remain during the coming tribulation period and will include the sixth and seventh dominions of satan's beast in the Middle East.

She will be completely destroyed when the Lord destroys the dominion of the beast and all of the remaining dominions [nations] and their cities in the world. Not one will be left standing and all human rule of self government will come to an end. [Revelation 16:17-20]

Mystery Babylon's attributes [the lost condition of humanity] are deception, arrogance, self-sufficiency, greed, materialism, vice, corruption, violence, crime, murder, false religion, religious persecution, and offensive warfare.

She is the corporate collection of unbelieving unsaved human societies and empires that have existed since the flood and have separated themselves from the Lord.

He considers her accountable for the killing of prophets, believers, and all humans who have been slain on the earth. The nations [dominions] of the Gentiles and Israel have been guilty of all of these actions in many ways over time. [Revelation 17, 18]

Any combination of her attributes and behavior can influence and contribute to the ultimate destruction of humans by distraction and by keeping them from seeking and finding the right relationship to the Lord.

She will have grown to enormous advanced proportions [Mystery Babylon the Great] by the time of the end and her most prominent feature will be her commercial, financial, and economic dominance on a worldwide scale. [Revelation 18]

The Lord will judge her by motivating the little horn [the beast incarnate] and the ten other horns [human kings] to attack and destroy her great commercial and economic center of influence with fire in one day. [Revelation 17:16-18]

Her great city's destruction will occur just at the beginning of the tribulation period of the Lord's coming wrath and it is recorded within the first 4 trumpet soundings recorded in the book of Revelation. [Revelation 8]

The smoke of her burning will be viewed by those far off who depend upon her commercial and economic strength and presence; both as a provider and a market place. [Revelation 18]

Her abrupt fall will cause worldwide economic upheaval and huge environmental contaminations. Much of the world will reel in the confusion as the result of her destruction.

If we are close to the time of the end of this present age, her great city may very well be the combined cities of the USA [a unified nation of states .... a great city]. I am speculating on this possibility.

These states are all connected via financial, economic, and commercial interests which in turn dominate most of the world's commercial trade, wealth, and finance. The USA is the current leading economic power of the group and could be the part of the woman called the "great city" described in Revelation 17 and 18.

The little horn [the beast] and the other ten horns will be in the Middle East where his sixth and seventh dominions will be located.

I am speculating about the actual identification and location of the "great City", but not about the location of the sixth and seventh dominions [kingdoms] of satan's beast. [Ezekiel 38; Daniel 8:9-13; 11:36-45; Micah 5]

satan and Abaddon-Apollyon will dominate the Middle East through the human little horn and he will cause much difficulty and destruction on a worldwide scale during the coming tribulation period. His sixth kingdom will be a small one [the one that "is"] located in the northern sector of the Middle East. [Revelation 17:10]

He will then expand the sixth into the seventh and final divided kingdom incorporating the ten other Middle Eastern kings and their kingdoms. [Ezekiel 38; Daniel 7]

The current Islamic factor in the Middle East will be part of this picture. This religion is the common denominator that will produce the cult worship of the beast. The core of Islamic fundamentalism is located in the Middle East. [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Revelation 13:11]

The student of Bible prophecy needs to be aware of these things as we move closer to the end of this age. We could be on the very door step of the beginning of the time of the end of this present age.

Current conditions may change over the course of time and could present a different picture, but there are significant similarities existing today which resemble the Bible's descriptions of the coming end time events.

Two declarations are made in Revelation in conjunction with the Lord's judgment of Mystery Babylon's great city part, her other cities of the world, and the battle of Armageddon.

He will call His people to, "come out of her", so that they do not experience her calamities when her great city is destroyed. [Revelation 18:4]

This will be a command and action by the Lord to remove living believers from her great city part and the rest of the world just before the destruction comes. [Matthew 25:1-13; 1Thessalonians 4:13-18; Revelation 3:10]

"I will come as a thief", is the other declaration made which is what the Lord has said regarding His unannounced return to start the judgment process of His hour of trial against an unbelieving world. [1Thessalonians 5:1-4; 25:13; 2Peter 3:10; Revelation 16:15 (parenthetical)]

His warning is that believers must be prepared [keeping the truth], and watching, and waiting for this event so that they are not caught off guard and subjected His the hour of trial [judgment] that is coming.

Amo

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #13 on: Fri Sep 03, 2010 - 22:13:48 »
God's faithful servants of the past, who endured terrible persecution at the hands of Babylon the great, have already identified her as the Church of Rome.  Modern Christianities denial and rejection of this truth, has paved the way for the re-establishment of her power on a world wide scale.  It is growing greater every day.

Though radical Islam is a major threat to freedom, their power and influence over non Muslim countries, and even some Muslim countries, is not near as threatening as that of Romes.  Right hear in the USA her power is being felt in a big way.  One hundred and sixty two members of Congress belong to her ranks.  Our vice President also.  Our President himself attended some of her schools growing up.  Six out of nine of our Supreme court justices also belong to her ranks.

At this same time in history, when there are more Roman Catholic politicians in control of our Federal government than ever before, our nation is taking a serious dive.  Our constitution is being trashed daily.  More and more people feel unrepresented, by our supposedly representative government every day.  All these things are transpiring under the authority of a Federal government being heavily influenced by the Church of Rome.  This of course should be no mystery, since Rome has never supported constitutional government for the people, by the people, or Capitalism for that matter.  It should be no surprise therefore, that neither is fairing well under a heavily Roman Catholic influenced government.

One does not have to go far back in history, to see Rome's support of Socialistic and Fascist forms of government.  She is now doing her best to implement the same within the USA.  Babylon the Great does represent corporate humanity in rebellion against God, but this rebellion is, and will continue to be lead by the Church of Rome.  This is on account of her absolute refusal to separate herself from entanglement with the politics of this world.  She is the mother of apostate "Christian" entities which commit fornication with the kings of this earth.  She and her daughters, both "Christian" and non Christian religions of the world, will unite with the same to lead corporate humanity into it's final stand and rebellion against the government of God Himself.  These things, God will personally address at His second coming.


Offline Truth Files

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #14 on: Fri Sep 03, 2010 - 22:53:38 »
The RCC is definitely an organization that teaches a false christian fronting .... no question about this

But so are there many pseudo-christian organizations of other persuasions that are just as far off coarse from the very liberal to the fundamental "christian" cults

Islam is identified in the prophetic scriptures as the enemy of the Lord and His nation of Israel without question

The RCC is just another part of false christian persuasion and is not even named in the scope of the prophetic visions .... neither is the ancient Roman Empire

Revelation's description of MBG and the "great city" part is not a descrition of the RCC organization .... not even close


Offline jobe

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #15 on: Fri Sep 03, 2010 - 22:59:08 »
Why Rom is not Babylon the great.
Let us stick with the scripture
1. “And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth

Amo

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #16 on: Sat Sep 04, 2010 - 06:09:03 »
Quote
The RCC is definitely an organization that teaches a false christian fronting .... no question about this

But so are there many pseudo-christian organizations of other persuasions that are just as far off coarse from the very liberal to the fundamental "christian" cults

Islam is identified in the prophetic scriptures as the enemy of the Lord and His nation of Israel without question

The RCC is just another part of false christian persuasion and is not even named in the scope of the prophetic visions .... neither is the ancient Roman Empire

Revelation's description of MBG and the "great city" part is not a descrition of the RCC organization .... not even close

No sir, you are dangerously mistaken.  Biblical prophecy does not completely bypass the largest, most powerful, and longest lasting kingdom which existed in relation to God's people during the old covenant.  The same kingdom which was in power during the establishment of the new covenant, and into which Jesus Christ Himself was born.  Nor does it bypass the history of the Church of Rome, that is the Holy Roman empire which succeeded it, and dominated European religion and government for over a thousand years.  Which also persecuted countless of God's very own during this same time.  Again, your interpretation is only allowing her the opportunity to rise gain, as biblical prophecy has predicted.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Amo

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #17 on: Sat Sep 04, 2010 - 06:21:58 »
Quote
Why Rom is not Babylon the great.
Let us stick with the scripture
1. “And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth

Offline Truth Files

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #18 on: Sat Sep 04, 2010 - 08:16:52 »
The beast in Daniel 7 are human kingdoms of this world, but the 4th is not ancient Rome

This is a future confederation of Islamic states in the Middle East led by the little horn of Daniel 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 11:36-45; 12:7 [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Micah 5]

It is this little horn [king] and 10 others who will rule for a short period during the coming 70th week decreed for Israel [Daniel 9:24-27; Revelation 13:5; 11:2]

This same little horn will become the first beast of Revelation by incarnation and it is this entity and the 10 others from the Middle East who will destroy the great city part of MBG and then invade and occupy Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount at the Middle of the 70th week; and then rule for 42 months [Revelation 9:11; 11:2; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18

This destruction will be aganist the great city's dominance over the Middle East and the little horn and the 10 others will hate this dominance and will remove it by destroying the great city part of MBG .... this action will be the first strike by the Lord against an unbelieving world at the beginning of His hour [time] of trial and judgment [Revelation 8:8; 17:16-18; 18:1-21]

[The Lord will then later destroy all of the other cities of MBG of the gentile nations and will break the land mass where the great city stood into thirds with the greatest worldwide earthquake known to mankind during the battle of Armageddon at the end of the coming tribulation period [Revelation 16:13-21]]

Revelation 17 and 18 are not a description of ancient Rome, the Popery, RCC, and a reconstituted EU .... this idea is the view of the reformation movements of the past and primarily of the JW and SDA "church" organizations  today ..... neither have the correct understanding of the prophetic visions

The beast [in the little horn] will appear in the northern Middle East at the time of the end and he is called the "Assyrian" in the prophetic scriptures [Joel 2:20; Micah 5:5-6]

This geographical area today constituted the convergence of Syria [Lebanon] , Turkey, Iraq, and Iran .... this ancient land of Magog and his brothers is still there today [Genesis 10; 11; Ezekiel 38] and the coming confederation of the little horn is beginning to take shape at this time in the Middle East [Daniel 2:42-44]

His first kingdom [the 6th] of the time of the end will be a small one and he will then quickly expand it into a confederated kingdom of a divided Middle East .... 5 of his Middle Eastern kingdoms of the past have already fallen ending with the northern Asian Greek [Syrio/Babylonia] just before the first century

This beast will be released from the abyss by satan and he will return to rule the Middle East for satan [Revelation 12:12] again at the time of the end during the 70th week decreed for Israel [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 9:26-27; 23-25; 11:36-45; 12:7;  2Thessalonians 2:8-12; Revelation 9:1-11; 13:1-4]
 
« Last Edit: Sat Sep 04, 2010 - 08:24:43 by Truth Files »

Amo

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #19 on: Sat Sep 04, 2010 - 19:12:24 »

Quote
This is a future confederation of Islamic states in the Middle East led by the little horn of Daniel 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 11:36-45; 12:7 [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Micah 5]

It is this little horn [king] and 10 others who will rule for a short period during the coming 70th week decreed for Israel [Daniel 9:24-27; Revelation 13:5; 11:2]

This same little horn will become the first beast of Revelation by incarnation and it is this entity and the 10 others from the Middle East who will destroy the great city part of MBG and then invade and occupy Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount at the Middle of the 70th week; and then rule for 42 months [Revelation 9:11; 11:2; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-18

This destruction will be aganist the great city's dominance over the Middle East and the little horn and the 10 others will hate this dominance and will remove it by destroying the great city part of MBG .... this action will be the first strike by the Lord against an unbelieving world at the beginning of His hour [time] of trial and judgment [Revelation 8:8; 17:16-18; 18:1-21]

[The Lord will then later destroy all of the other cities of MBG of the gentile nations and will break the land mass where the great city stood into thirds with the greatest worldwide earthquake known to mankind during the battle of Armageddon at the end of the coming tribulation period [Revelation 16:13-21]]

Revelation 17 and 18 are not a description of ancient Rome, the Popery, RCC, and a reconstituted EU .... this idea is the view of the reformation movements of the past and primarily of the JW and SDA "church" organizations  today ..... neither have the correct understanding of the prophetic visions

The beast [in the little horn] will appear in the northern Middle East at the time of the end and he is called the "Assyrian" in the prophetic scriptures [Joel 2:20; Micah 5:5-6]

This geographical area today constituted the convergence of Syria [Lebanon] , Turkey, Iraq, and Iran .... this ancient land of Magog and his brothers is still there today [Genesis 10; 11; Ezekiel 38] and the coming confederation of the little horn is beginning to take shape at this time in the Middle East [Daniel 2:42-44]

His first kingdom [the 6th] of the time of the end will be a small one and he will then quickly expand it into a confederated kingdom of a divided Middle East .... 5 of his Middle Eastern kingdoms of the past have already fallen ending with the northern Asian Greek [Syrio/Babylonia] just before the first century

This beast will be released from the abyss by satan and he will return to rule the Middle East for satan [Revelation 12:12] again at the time of the end during the 70th week decreed for Israel [Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 9:26-27; 23-25; 11:36-45; 12:7;  2Thessalonians 2:8-12; Revelation 9:1-11; 13:1-4]

So now you have separated not only the seventieth week from the other sixty nine by over two thousand years, but also the fourth beast of Dan. 7 from the other three beasts of the same by an even longer period.  All with no indication from the scriptures that any kind of huge gap of time exists between any of them.  In fact, the prophecies themselves indicate just the opposite, that is, that the weeks and beasts occur in unbroken succession.

The four metals of the great image of Daniel 2, and the four beasts of Daniel 7, correspondingly represent the four successive kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, and Rome.  This was believed even by the Jews before the coming of Christ, and by the early Christians themselves.  You are playing directly into the hands of Rome’s Counter Reformation by promulgating an interpretation of biblical prophecy which completely bypasses over a thousand years of their extremely abusive and violent history.

Rev 17 1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.


BABYLON THE  GREAT, and the harlot, or whore of the book of revelation are one and the same.  When Israel of the old covenant sought after other nations and their gods, God referred to then as committing harlotry, and whoredom.  This is because they were once the true nation and religion of God on earth, but committed spiritual fornication by depending on other nations rather than God, and worshipping their false God’s also.  This is why it is not possible for Islam to be Babylon the Great, or the whore of Revelation, because they were never the true nation or religion of God in the first place. 

BABYLON THE GREAT, and the whore of the book of Revelation are necessarily then, an apostate “Christian

Offline Truth Files

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #20 on: Sun Sep 05, 2010 - 06:13:45 »
"So now you have separated not only the seventieth week from the other sixty nine by over two thousand years, but also the fourth beast of Dan. 7 from the other three beasts of the same by an even longer period."

Because all of the prophetic scriptures do the same

There is nothing in the scope between the end of the 69th week decreed and the beginning of the future 70th week decreed for Israel .... nothing

And Rome is not named in the visions .... and neither are the subsequent rulers of the Middle East of which there were many

And there have been many significant events upon the earth since the end of the Lord's "cutting off" at the end of the 69th week decreed for Israel .... and none of them appear in the prophetic visions .... the list is a long one

The Lord has obviously delayed His second advent because of Israel's rejection of Him as the nation's Messiah and King, but this is going to change in the near future [Romans 11]

The ancient Roman Empire is in the dust bin of history, never to rise again .... and the fragment of the RCC and its Pope of the past and today are not named and included in the visions

The remaining unfulfilled portion of the projections of the Bible prophets does name and identify the adherents of Islam who will form the 4th kingdom of Daniel's visions during the remaining 70th week decreed for Israel [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Micah 5]

Reformation theology is lacking in scope, is replacement theology [deny's the Lord's future dealings with Israel], and holds on to the incorrect rendering of the prophetic visions by inserting proprietary events of history into the breach

This is done to promote the exclusivity of the individual movements

There are many who do this today including the SDA, Mormon, liberal protestant, and the "christian" fundamental cults like the MSOG latter rain proponents ..... and ironically the RCC does the same

So do the adherents of Islam

All claiming a different twist .... same song

There is a rat in the wood pile and it is not difficult to determine the identification of the rodent  



 

« Last Edit: Sun Sep 05, 2010 - 06:39:59 by Truth Files »

Amo

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #21 on: Sun Sep 05, 2010 - 20:16:59 »
Amo
Quote
"So now you have separated not only the seventieth week from the other sixty nine by over two thousand years, but also the fourth beast of Dan. 7 from the other three beasts of the same by an even longer period."

truth
Quote
Because all of the prophetic scriptures do the same

No, all prophetic scriptures absolutely do not do the same.  You have twisted the ones in question to do the same, in order to make them say what you wish the prophecy to say.  The seventy weeks were an allotted time to the Jews, which were to commence at a specific time.  If God or the prophet intended that there would be a 2000 year gap between one of those 70 consecutive weeks, surely they would have indicated the same.  If you mean to say that certain events will transpire within 2000 some odd years, and seventy weeks, then that is what you say.  You don’t say simply, 70 weeks.

Quote
There is nothing in the scope between the end of the 69th week decreed and the beginning of the future 70th week decreed for Israel .... Nothing

And Rome is not named in the visions .... and neither are the subsequent rulers of the Middle East of which there were many

Nor is there any indication at all, that the 70th week would occur 2000 years later than the 69th week.  If the first 69 weeks transpired according to the natural progression of time, there is absolutely no reason at all to believe, or even suggest that the 70th would not as well.  Especially with no indication from scripture alluding in any way to that fact. Not to mention the series of events which did transpire at the time of the 70th week according to the natural progression of time, which have already fulfilled the details of the said prophecy.

You are correct to say that Rome is not mentioned in the vision, of course, neither is Islam.  Nor did the religion of Islam even exist until long after the establishment of the Roman Empire, and the Papacy.  One of the points of biblical prophecy is not to be so obvious, that even the enemies of God see clearly what God has revealed to His servants.

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And there have been many significant events upon the earth since the end of the Lord's "cutting off" at the end of the 69th week decreed for Israel .... and none of them appear in the prophetic visions .... the list is a long one

There were no 69 weeks decreed for Israel, only 70.  Again, you are twisting the prophecy to fit your own mold.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

All of the details of the above prophecy were fulfilled by the end of the 70th week in and through our Lord Jesus Christ, His sacrifice upon the cross,  and the final rejection from the Jews of the gospel of Jesus Christ three and half years later at the stoning of Stephen.  At which time the gospel began to be spread more speedily among the gentiles.

Quote
The Lord has obviously delayed His second advent because of Israel's rejection of Him as the nation's Messiah and King, but this is going to change in the near future [Romans 11]

To the contrary, the old testament prophets predicted this very event, and Christ Himself foretold Israel’s rejection of Him, and the consequent results of having the kingdom of God taken form them, and given to another.

Matt 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.

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The ancient Roman Empire is in the dust bin of history, never to rise again .... and the fragment of the RCC and its Pope of the past and today are not named and included in the visions

It is not the ancient pagan Roman Empire that will rise again, but rather the Holy Roman Papal Empire that is rising again at this very moment in history.  Prophecy clearly points out that one of the beasts which seems to have received a deadly would, is healed and comes back to life.  This is the Papal Roman Empire.  On the other hand, William Durant summarized the Papacy well with the following words -

When Christianity conquered Rome the ecclesiastical structure of the pagan church, the title and vestments of the pontifex maximus, the worship of the Great Mother and a multitude of comforting divinities, the sense of supersensible presences everywhere, the joy or solemnity of old festivals, and the pageantry of immemorial ceremony, passed like maternal blood into the new religion, and captive Rome captured her conqueror.  The reins and skill of government were handed down by a dying empire to a virile papacy; the lost power of the broken sword was rewon by the magic of the consoling word; the armies of the state were replaced by the missionaries of the Church moving in all directions along the Roman roads; and the revolted provinces, accepting Christianity, again acknowledged the sovereignty of Rome.  Through the long struggles of the Age of Faith the authority of the ancient capital persisted and grew, until in the Renaissance the classic culture seemed to rise from the grave, and the immortal city became once more the center of summit of the world's life and wealth and art.  When, in 1936, Rome celebrated the 2689th anniversary of her foundation, she could look back upon the most impressive continuity of government and civilization in the history of mankind.  May she rise again.(CAESAR AND CHRIST, A history of Roman Civilization and of Christianity from their beginnings to A.D.325. By Will Durant-1944)

A Church that has about a billion members world wide, and entertains ambassadors from virtually every nation on earth, is not a fragment.  Thinking it is, is a figment of your imagination.

Quote
The remaining unfulfilled portion of the projections of the Bible prophets does name and identify the adherents of Islam who will form the 4th kingdom of Daniel's visions during the remaining 70th week decreed for Israel [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Micah 5]

Islam is not the fourth kingdom of Daniels prophecies.  The four kingdoms were consecutive, just like the 70 weeks were also.  Rome was the fourth kingdom after Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece.  You are simply twisting these prophecies into the mold you wish for them, by placing huge gaps of time in the right place, for your own interpretation to work out as you wish it.  

Quote
Reformation theology is lacking in scope, is replacement theology [deny's the Lord's future dealings with Israel], and holds on to the incorrect rendering of the prophetic visions by inserting proprietary events of history into the breach

It is not lacking anything.  It is of the historicist school, and requires the unfolding of  history, to reveal further details in relation to the prophecies.  Those details were fulfilled by the Papacy in the past, and are being fulfilled by her again in this present time, by the rise of her political power and influence upon the kings and governments of this world once again.

Quote
This is done to promote the exclusivity of the individual movements

There are many who do this today including the SDA, Mormon, liberal protestant, and the "christian" fundamental cults like the MSOG latter rain proponents ..... and ironically the RCC does the same

So do the adherents of Islam

All claiming a different twist .... same song

That is a negative.  It is your interpretation and futurism that is the new twist.  Though there were many different Protestant denominations, up until about 100 years ago, they were all just about unanimous regarding the identity of the Church of Rome being BABYLON THE GREAT, and a system of antichrist.  This held true until the false interpretations of futurism, and preterism, which were devised by the Church of Rome as part of the Counter Reformation of the same, began to be accepted by apostate Protestant entities.  Your interpretation is right in line with that of the futurists.

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There is a rat in the wood pile and it is not difficult to determine the identification of the rodent

Yes there is.  It is the founders, and promoters of these Counter Reformation interpretations of biblical prophecy.  Those which were not devised with truth in mind, but simply to take the pointing finger of biblical prophecy off of the Church of Rome.


Offline Truth Files

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #22 on: Mon Sep 06, 2010 - 08:01:25 »
You sound like an SDA teacher .... I know many of them

The rat I am referring to is the common element of deception that resides in the anti-semitic/antichrist ["anti" meaning against Jesus Christ] pile of both "professing" christianity and Islam

..... none other than satan himself .... same song .... different venues

And the adherents of Islam are directly identified [ethnic origin and geographical location] in the scriptures by the way

Neither Rome or the RCC are identified in the visions .... you have to insert them ..... nothing in the scope of the visions ..... nothing

Neither do I "take the finger" off of the RCC as you say

This organization's teaching is very apostate, but just another part of false teaching which is rampant accross the board of sectored christianity today in many forms which includes the fundamental cults

MBG is symbolic of the much greater lost human condition that exists across the globe .... past, present, and future .... not just the RCC religion [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17]

And the Lord has delayed His coming judgment as well ..... the prophetic scriptures are totally silent regarding the breach between

He is waiting ..... and be glad that He is .... and make certain that you are ready for the balance [1Corinthians 15:22-58]

He could have pulled the trigger long ago and you would have never existed [Romans 11:25-26; 2Peter 3:8-9]



  
« Last Edit: Mon Sep 06, 2010 - 08:18:00 by Truth Files »

Amo

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #23 on: Mon Sep 06, 2010 - 14:42:44 »
Quote
You sound like an SDA teacher .... I know many of them

The rat I am referring to is the common element of deception that resides in the anti-semitic/antichrist ["anti" meaning against Jesus Christ] pile of both "professing" christianity and Islam

..... none other than satan himself .... same song .... different venues

I am not anti-semitic/antichrist.  My grandfather was Jewish, and I have nothing against them.  They are just like all the rest of us, in desperate need of a Savior.  If they will accept the gospel, they can be graft back into the vine, which is Christ, just like the rest of us.  If they will not, they are lost just like the rest of us.  Israel of the new covenant is not those born so of the flesh, but rather those born of the spirit by faith in the Son of God.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.


Quote
And the adherents of Islam are directly identified [ethnic origin and geographical location] in the scriptures by the way

Don't go out of your way to show us where though. 

Quote
Neither Rome or the RCC are identified in the visions .... you have to insert them ..... nothing in the scope of the visions ..... nothing

Again, the same can be said about Islam, or any other religion or institution for that matter.  This is because the prophecies are not meant to be understood, but by those who search diligently enough under the guidance of the Holy Spirit of God.  The historical details of this or that institution providing the proof of the fulfillment of the prophetic details outlined in the prophecy itself.  Thus Rome, and the Papacy have, are, and will continue to be identified by students of biblical prophecy lead by the Holy Spirit of God.  Millions have already come to this conclusion in the past.  I take serious issue with your insinuation that they were all anti-semetic/antichrist idiots. 

Quote
Neither do I "take the finger" off of the RCC as you say

This organization's teaching is very apostate, but just another part of false teaching which is rampant accross the board of sectored christianity today in many forms which includes the fundamental cults

MBG is symbolic of the much greater lost human condition that exists across the globe .... past, present, and future .... not just the RCC religion [Psalms 2; Revelation 6:12-17]

The RCC religion is not just one of many, though there are many.  She is the Mother of harlots and the abominations of the earth.  She was the first apostate "Christian' entity which abandoned the power of the Holy Spirit of God, in favor of the power of the state.  Having recourse to the latter, because she had already lost the former through her fornication with the kings of this earth.  By which she brought about the amalgamation of apostate Christianity, and pagan sun worship.  Thus forming the Papacy.  As now she is embracing also all the false religions of this world, including Islam, and also entertaining ambassadors from virtually every nation on earth, that she might gather them together under her banner in rebellion against God.

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And the Lord has delayed His coming judgment as well ..... the prophetic scriptures are totally silent regarding the breach between

Of this I am sure, for He is not willing that any should perish.  However, the scriptures are not silent regarding this matter.

2 Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The Lord delaying His coming, and the huge gaps or breach you have created in some of the biblical prophecies are not at all the same thing.  The former is due to God's great mercy, the latter is due to your desire to make prophecy fit your own mold.

Quote
He is waiting ..... and be glad that He is .... and make certain that you are ready for the balance [1Corinthians 15:22-58]

He could have pulled the trigger long ago and you would have never existed [Romans 11:25-26; 2Peter 3:8-9]

Yes He is waiting, but this again has nothing to do with the huge gaps you have applied between the beginning and end of certain prophecies.  The 70 weeks have ended, and the fourth kingdom has already come about.

Offline Truth Files

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #24 on: Mon Sep 06, 2010 - 15:52:00 »
The breach in the scope of the prophetic visions is apparent and all of them reflect it .... here is an exmple: Daniel 8;8 (past) ..... 8:9-12; 8;23-25; 11:36-45; 12:7(future)

And there is nothing recorded in the scope between the end of the 69th week decreed for Israel [about 33 A.D.] ....... and the beginning of the future 70th week still pending .... absolutely nothing

Daniel 9 is all about a future remnant part of Israel that the Lord will bring under the covenant [the convenant confirmed] that He has with the nation .... this coming 70th week decreed has never taken place and it is speciffically for Daniel's people national Israel .... the time of "Jacob's" trouble [Jeremiah 30; Ezekiel 33-44; Zechariah 13:8-9]

All 6 of the objectives listed will be consumated by the Lord Himself for a believing remnant part of Israel "the many" during His execution of the future 70th week deceed [Romans 11:25-26]

70 A.D. was not the time of the end as some replacement/historical theologies teach .... the Roman invasions of 70 A.D. lie in the breach of the prophetic visions as well as many other significant events upon the earth over the past 2000 years .... the scope of the visions has none of these events recorded .... the list is a long one

"And He shall confirm the covenant with the many for 1 week" .... there are two princes noted in this vision .... the Lord, and the other prince who will come to desolate .... the other prince [2Thessalonians 2:8-12] is one that some call the "antichrist" [satan's beast in the little horn of Daniel's other visions and Revelation's unfolding] [Daniel 9:26-27]

These following passages of prophetic scripture define today's muslims of the Middle East related to the coming time of the end of this present age:

[Psalms  83, Ezekiel 36:5; 38:4-7; Daniel 11:36-45; Micah 5:5-6]

These ancient enemies still reside and surround a regathered Israel today .... the same offset that the Lord has determined between Isaac and Ishmael, and Jacob and Esau

This same stand off is apparent in the Middle East today and the stage is being set for the coming 70th week decreed for Israel .... a time of unprecedented trouble for Israel and the world [Matthew 24:15-22]

There is nothing identifying Rome, Popes, and the RCC in any of the prophetic visions related to the time of the end of this present age

Your position sounds like one of the many replacement theologies that suggest the Lord is finished with national Israel and this idea is far from the truth; and not supported by scripture at all

If you are looking to Europe, a revived Roman Empire, and the RCC to fulfill the balance of the unfulfilled portion of the prophetic visions you are looking in the wrong place .... reformation theology as many flaws regarding the interpretation of  Bible prophecy

The only reliable truth related to prophetic projections is recorded in the scope of the Bible prophets alone ..... nothing should be added and certainly not the inserted speculations of men [2Peter 1:16-21; Revelation 22:18-19]

If you care to tell me which reformation theology you are associated with I can show you specifically why you need to investigate what you are being taught [there are many including "professing" christian movements, orthodox Judiasm, Islam, and new age eastern religions] .... some of them have potentially dangerous dogmas attached which can effect your own salvation
« Last Edit: Mon Sep 06, 2010 - 20:39:00 by Truth Files »

Offline jobe

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Re: Who is Gog?
« Reply #25 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 01:36:05 »

After the troops of the dragon obliterated or water thereof was dried up, in iraq he will gather the rest of his followers to Armageddon, on the plain of Esdraelon or Jezreel, southwest of Nazareth, from all over the world by working miracles, kind of instant mater transportation or teleportation, as Jesus spoken, “I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left {Luke 17:35-36}. The key explanation is after the question by his disciples, Where, Lord? He answered, “Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together

Offline jobe

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #26 on: Tue Sep 14, 2010 - 23:02:30 »
This is for AMO, Please let us stick with the scripture you said,

“The RCC religion is not just one of many, though there are many.  She is the Mother of harlots and the abominations of the earth.  She was the first apostate "Christian' entity which abandoned the power of the Holy Spirit of God, in favor of the power of the state.
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 03, 2011 - 11:26:32 by jobe »

Offline jobe

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #27 on: Wed Sep 15, 2010 - 00:16:39 »
An Interpretation of prophecy especially about the end time like God will destroy the earth and Jesus will fight personally usually will take as to the wrong conclusion because it  directly conflict with One of The most important concept of God in the bible which says, “God is light, and in him is no darkness at all
« Last Edit: Fri Jun 03, 2011 - 11:27:28 by jobe »

Online mclees8

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #28 on: Wed Sep 15, 2010 - 10:16:43 »
An Interpretation of prophecy especially about the end time like God will destroy the earth and Jesus will fight personally usually will take as to the wrong conclusion because it  directly conflict with One of The most important concept of God in the bible which says, “God is light, and in him is no darkness at all

Online mclees8

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #29 on: Wed Sep 15, 2010 - 10:44:32 »
Who is Babylon the great ?  You might also say what is Babylon the great?

Babylon consists of the world and its systems. It is religious, political and economic. The great harlot is of all these things She is a harlot because she claims to be of Christ but is actually in bed with the world system.  She courts antichrist. Given her description she is not hard to identify.

Rev. 18 describes her involvement with the world and the call for Gods people to come out of her. this is to divorce yourself from the world and its lusts for materialism  power, wealth, and political control. 

God bless

Offline jobe

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #30 on: Wed Sep 15, 2010 - 12:21:42 »
Please let us stick with the scripture

“And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth

Online mclees8

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #31 on: Wed Sep 15, 2010 - 17:37:32 »
Please let us stick with the scripture

“And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth

Offline jobe

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #32 on: Thu Sep 16, 2010 - 16:47:27 »
I am sorry, if I somehow become rude to you, I only want to show one more Christian brother who can persuade others to see what I think I see. As of being one sided vision I will prey on it tonight to God, who give wisdom and open secret for humbles. I already written above in a paragraph  why the great Harlot of REV 17 is Istanbul, Turky, but if you have a time and like to read all, specially about God mind and about the universe story from the beginning to the end as Jesus reviled to us here is the link https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=1f3NJZ4L2eRkejoMuWtHWTRITMjDZUrEit19DqmGHbYY&sort=name&layout=list&num=50

For you said can you can not know the mind of Gods wisdom, and you are right no body can, expect what he revile to us, but here we are taking about the behavior of God and the story of his creation, for that God himself personally reviled to us that is Jesus is God

here some verses

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.  In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. (john 1:1-5)

Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. ) Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then,]Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake. (John 14:8-11)

Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also. (John 8:19)

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you. (john 15:14-15)

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #33 on: Fri Sep 17, 2010 - 08:59:09 »
Israel and the Church are both referred to as women throughout the scriptures.  The prophecy of Gen. 3:15 embraces the church of both the old and the new covenants, and the struggle or war between them and their leader Christ, and those of this world and their leader Satan.

Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The woman and her seed are those who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus. Christ's church, that is, those who are in this world, but worship and live for Christ, are prophetically referred to as a woman, or the seed of a woman. However, there are two separate woman referred to in the scriptures, in regards to the church. There is a pure woman, or virgin, and there is the harlot, or whore. These two woman represent either the true church, or an apostate church. This terminology is used in both the old and new testaments in reference to those who claim to be God's people.

Isa 1:21 How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

Jer 2:20 For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.
 
Jer 3:1 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the LORD.
2 Lift up thine eyes unto the high places, and see where thou hast not been lien with. In the ways hast thou sat for them, as the Arabian in the wilderness; and thou hast polluted the land with thy whoredoms and with thy wickedness.

Jer 3:6 The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.
7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Ezek 16:14 And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD.
15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them,

Ezek 16:28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.
29 Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.

Hosea 4:15 Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Bethaven, nor swear, The LORD liveth.
16 For Israel slideth back as a backsliding heifer: now the LORD will feed them as a lamb in a large place.
17 Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.
18 Their drink is sour: they have committed whoredom continually: her rulers with shame do love, Give ye.
19 The wind hath bound her up in her wings, and they shall be ashamed because of their
sacrifices.

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.


Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Rev 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication , and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
 
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

These are some of the scriptures that refer to Israel, and the new covenant church in an apostate condition.  We will now examine some of the scriptures referring to Israel, or the church as a woman, and bride.

Isa 62:4 Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.
5 For as a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.


John 3:28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.
29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.
30 He must increase, but I must decrease.
 
Matt 9:15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.

Jer 3:13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.
14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Isa 37:22 This is the word which the LORD hath spoken concerning him; The virgin, the daughter of Zion, hath despised thee, and laughed thee to scorn; the daughter of Jerusalem hath shaken her head at thee.

Jer 14:17 Therefore thou shalt say this word unto them; Let mine eyes run down with tears night and day, and let them not cease: for the virgin daughter of my people is broken with a great breach, with a very grievous blow.

Jer 31:2 Thus saith the LORD, The people which were left of the sword found grace in the wilderness; even Israel, when I went to cause him to rest.
3 The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
4 Again I will build thee, and thou shalt be built, O virgin of Israel: thou shalt again be adorned with thy tabrets, and shalt go forth in the dances of them that make merry.

Jer 31:21 Set thee up waymarks, make thee high heaps: set thine heart toward the highway, even the way which thou wentest: turn again, O virgin of Israel, turn again to these thy cities.
22 How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

Lam 1:15 The Lord hath trodden under foot all my mighty men in the midst of me: he hath called an assembly against me to crush my young men: the Lord hath trodden the virgin, the daughter of Judah, as in a winepress.

Lam 2:13 What thing shall I take to witness for thee? what thing shall I liken to thee, O daughter of Jerusalem? what shall I equal to thee, that I may comfort thee, O virgin daughter of Zion? for thy breach is great like the sea: who can heal thee?

Amos 5:1 Hear ye this word which I take up against you, even a lamentation, O house of Israel.
2 The virgin of Israel is fallen; she shall no more rise: she is forsaken upon her land; there is none to raise her up.

Matt 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 Cor 11:1 Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
 
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.


Christ left His Father in heaven, and became one flesh with humanity. He brought humanity and divinity together. This is the gospel. Those who accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal savior, enter into a relationship with the Lord that is symbolized by marriage. The two become one. This is salvation. For this reason, the church is referred to as a woman, that has been married, or betrothed to the Lord. They have entered into the deepest relationship possible. They are in Christ, and Christ is in them.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;[/b] and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

The bride is ready, when she has received the clean and white linen of the righteousness of Christ. This righteousness is the gift of God, to those who have entered into this love relationship with Him.

Rev 19:6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.


It has been, and is a favorite accomplishment of the Devil, to bring those of the old and new covenant churches to such a condition of apostasy that they are referred to as harlots, or whores by God’s word.  While in this condition, they very often end up persecuting God’s true Church of their time.  We can see this clearly in the writings of the old testament, and the warnings in the new regarding the same.  An examination of history since the new covenant clearly reveals the same struggle among many professing Christians.  The persecution of God’s people by the world, and by others claiming to also be God’s people throughout history, is the epic struggle depicted in the prophecy of Gen. 3:15.  This struggle will continue until Christ returns and puts down all rebellion against His authority.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 



Online mclees8

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Re: Who is Babylon the great?
« Reply #34 on: Fri Sep 17, 2010 - 10:44:30 »
 
Answering Jobe

This is an artical in part that i have come across that supports what i have said jobe
It saves me a lot of writing. There is more but i cannot past that much here

Please remember, for me Babylon encompasses the whole world system in these three components and has existed sense the fall of man. Religious Babylon, political Babylon, commercial Babylon. As the article states we see them in REV 17 & 18


Babylon as Seen in Scripture: An Introduction to Rev 17-18
By: J. Hampton Keathley, III Share7 Printer-friendly versionSend to friend
Introduction

Revelation 17 and 18 are two of the most intriguing chapters of the Bible, yet two of the most difficult and disputed. Both of these chapters deal with the subject of Babylon and form a unit of prophetic doctrine, namely, the destruction of Babylon. However, these are two of the most difficult chapters of Revelation to interpret and expositors vary widely in their understanding of this section of the book. Walvoord writes:

Any interpretation of Revelation 17 and 18 is difficult because expositors have not agreed as to the detail of their interpretations. In general, however, it is helpful to consider chapter 17 as dealing with Babylon as an ecclesiastical or spiritual entity and chapter 18 as dealing with Babylon as a political entity.199

While reasons will be given later to support this, two different aspects of Babylon are contemplated in these chapters, two separate aspects of Babylon and her fall (perhaps suggested by the repetition of the phrase “is fallen

 

     
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