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Offline Truth Files

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Who Is Gog?
« on: Sat Sep 11, 2010 - 22:52:48 »
Ezekiel
38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him

38:17 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them?

The Lord addresses "gog" in Ezekiel 38 and 39 with respect to Israel's return to the land of Israel at the end of this current age. The vision begins by addressing satan and his early involvement with the post flood inhabitants of the land area of Magog, son of Japheth, and his brothers. [Genesis 10:1-2]

Careful study of Ezekiel's vision and other related scriptures are necessary in order to identify gog [satan] and his involvement with humanity over a very broad time frame.

This includes his connection to both the spirit world, human kings, and the human organizations contained within the dominions of the human kings and their kingdoms.

There are some identifiers and other links to be considered which will lead to the realization that gog is not human. This entity has angelic characteristics which can be determined by studying the identifiers and the links given in scripture.

Gog is identified by other biblical prophets as being connected with different human rulers, in different geographical areas, at different times, over periods which exceed the limitations of human life span. [Ezekiel 38:17]

The Lord's angelic creatures do not age and are the same today as they were at their creation in the beginning. This angelic trait allows for perpetual involvement over vast time periods. [Job 38:4-7; Ezekiel 28:11-19; Revelation 20:1-3]

He notes that gog is a subject of many of the prophets, yet he is referred to as "gog" in only one other place in scripture .... in the 20th chapter of the book of Revelation. This must mean that he is identified by different profiles and agencies in the visions of the other prophets. [Ezekiel 38:17]

All other references refer to him or his agents by some other name or title. For example, Daniel sees the "prince that is to come" [Abaddon-Apollyon] in the little horn [a human king]. Both of these entities will be empowered and directed by satan. [Daniel 7:7; 8:9-12; 8:25-25; 11:36-45; 12:7; Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 17:8]

Gog is described as the chief angelic prince, in this case, of Mesheck and Tubal [the early post flood settlements of Magog's brothers]. The term "prince" is generally applied to an angelic ruler in prophetic scripture who rules over, influences, and operates through human kings [horns]. [Ezekiel 38:2]

The term "chief prince" indicates that gog is the ruler or leader of others of the same kind. The Hebrew word "rosh" used for "chief" is not in reference to "Russia" as some teach, but should be translated as "chief" or "head" prince. [Revelation 12:3-4; 12:9]

The title of "prince" is revealed to Daniel in describing angelic activity related to the archangel Michael's battle against the opposing forces of the princes of Persia and of Grecia. [Daniel 10:13-20]

The title of prince is used by the Lord when addressing the human king of Tyre. The message goes beyond the king to another entity [satan] who apparently has interaction and control over the king. [Ezekiel 28:11-19]

Isaiah contains references addressed to the prince of Babylon and to Lucifer. These are descriptions of satan's existence as an angelic being and his connection and influence with humanity. [Isaiah 14:12-17]

The angelic prince that "shall come" will be revealed at the end of this age during Israel's 70th week [the tribulation period of the Lord's coming judgment]. Daniel contrasts this entity with the Lord, the Messiah, the Prince that was "cut off". [Daniel 9:26-27]

This prince will stand against [oppose] the Prince of Princes, who is the Lord Jesus Christ. The result of the conflict will be the destruction of this prince [first beast of Revelation] in the lake of fire at Armageddon. [Revelation 19:20]

Other references to satan and his agents in the visions of the prophets include the Assyrian, prince of Persia, prince of Grecia, the beast, Abaddon-Apollyon [angelic king of the abyss] the destroyer, the man of lawlessness, and son of perdition. [Micah 5; Daniel 10; Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1, 17:8; 2Thessalonians 2:3-12]

Satan plays the role of "chief prince" when his angelic agents are functional. He is the power behind them as they do his bidding on the earth in relation to the influence and control of human kings and their dominions. [Ezekiel 38:2; Revelation 12:3-12; 13:1-2; 17:8]

Abaddon-Appolyon is satan's [gog's] angelic agent for all seven heads [human dominions, kingdoms, and related human king positions] as they are defined in Revelation 13 and 17. He is the beast from the abyss .... the first beast of Revelation. [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 17:8]

It is clearly stated that this "beast" [Abaddon-Apollyon] has seven heads [kingdoms]. Five have fallen [are historical], and the other two will exist in sequence during the 70th week decreed for Israel ... the Lord's hour of trial and the time of "Jacob's trouble". [Jeremiah 30; Revelation 3:10; 17:7-13]

Abaddon-Apollyon's connection with the seven human king "positions" is limited to influence and control. He is "of the seven" and is connected with all of them.

This limitation will change when the Lord allows him to become the eighth king himself by an actual incarnation. This is the "lie" and strong delusion that the Lord will send against an unbelieving world [2Thessalonians 2].

It will occur during the little horn's [human king's] rule in the seventh king "position". "Of the seven" can also be translated "of the seventh" which more specifically describes Abaddon-Apollyon's connection with the little horn at the time of the end. [Revelation 17:11]

He will then become the 8th king himself. This manifestation will be exceptionally unique to humans who experience his presence. [2Thessalonians 2:3-12]

The little horn will expand his sixth Middle Eastern dominion toward the south, the east, and toward Israel by forming alliances and by conquest. [Daniel 8:9; 8:23-25; 11:36-44]

He will be occupying the seventh king position of his seventh dominion when Abaddon-Apollyon becomes the eighth king himself by incarnating [possessing] the little horn. [Revelation 17:11]

Abaddon-Apollyon will rule directly as an angelic king over most of the Middle East for a 42 month period [1,260 days] which will occur during the last half of the 70th week decreed for Israel. [Daniel 11:36-45; 12:7]

This entity will have an astounding presence and those who follow him will worship him as a god. His presence wil be like nothing that humans have experienced in the past.

This angelic beast wll be destroyed by the Lord in the lake of fire at the end of the next 30 day period, and satan will be captured and sent to the abyss for 1,000 years. [Daniel 12:11-12; Revelation 19:20, 20:1-3]

Revelation 20 also records satan's future release after the 1,000 years and his attempt to deceive the nations once again. He is referred to as "gog" again, and all of the nations involved are referred to symbolically as "Magog". [Revelation 20:7-10]

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Who Is Gog?
« on: Sat Sep 11, 2010 - 22:52:48 »

Offline Truth Files

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #1 on: Sat Sep 11, 2010 - 22:54:26 »
Who is gog continued ......

The Lord addresses satan as gog in Ezekiel and Revelation because of his early connections with the inhabitants of the land of Magog shortly after the flood.

The focus of Bible prophecy presents the view of satan's activities specifically in the northern regions of the Middle East [upper Tigris River basin]. [Ezekiel 38:15; Micah 5:5-6]

I believe this is because of the area's position in relation to Eden, Mount Ararat, and its northern interface with the land of Israel. There have been no valid archeological discoveries related to these inhabitants of the immediate post flood era so we must rely upon the scriptures for identification

The larger land areas of the early habitations of humans in the Middle East shortly after the flood are described in the Bible as the land of Egypt, the land of Canaan, the land of Magog, and the land of Shinar.

These lands formed a crescent shape from the Mediterranean to the Persian Gulf starting with the land of Egypt and ending with the land of Shinar [southern Babylonia] in clockwise order.

The land of Israel was developed later which replaced part of the land of Canaan on the eastern seaboard of the Mediterranean.

The general area of the ancient land of Magog today includes parts of northeastern Syria, eastern Turkey, northern Iraq, northwestern Iran, and Armenia and Georgia.

It is currently inhabited by a mixed group of original ethnic tribal ancestry plus genetic lineage from the other land areas of the Middle East.

The current populations located in the original ancient land of Magog are mainly Turkoman, Assyrian, Kurdish, Iranian [Medes and Persians], and Arab. The predominant religion is Islam. This common theology will have significance with regard to the coming end time events. [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38]

This is the geographical area where satan's beast [Abaddon-Apollyon incarnated in the little horn] will arise to power in the Middle East at the beginning of the time of the end of this present age .... ten other kings will rise with him. [Daniel 7:19-20; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; Revelation 13:1, 17:12-18]

Why does the Lord addressed satan as gog, connect him with the land of Magog, and identify him as the chief prince of Mesheck and Tubal?

Why does the Lord call him out of his place in the northern Middle East to attack a regathered Israel in the land of Israel at the end of this age?

The Lord has allowed satan to rule over this northern geographical area, from shortly after the flood and continuously through Greek rule just before the first century.

The visions of the prophets indicate his presence in the same geographical area at the time of the end. Included are the original land of Magog, the Akkadian/Assyrian Empire, and the subsequent empires of neo-Babylon, Persia, and Grecia.

All of these human dominions were centered in the ancient Middle East with connections to the northern area of the fertile crescent. This same area will be satan's base of operation at the time of the end.

His human agents will come from his place out of the north, the ancient area of the land of Magog [northern Iraq], with the objective of gaining control of the Middle East and destroying the nation of Israel.

Satan's strategy for this event will include Abaddon-Apollyon, the false prophet who will appear in the land of Israel, and the little horn who will become the human manifestation of Abaddon-Apollyon.

The little horn is seen in the visions coming out of the same land area of the northern division of Alexander's ancient divided empire at the time of the end. There is a breach in the scope of the visions from the ending of the ancient Syrio/Babylonian domination and the beginning of the little horn's appearance at the time of the end. He will expand his control over most of the Middle East. [Daniel 8:9-12, 8:23-25]

The important identifier will be the location of his original base of operation at the time of the end, and not necessarily his ethnic origin. He does not have to be a direct descendant of Magog, although this is a possibility, but he must appear in the area of the ancient land of Magog. [Ezekiel 38, 39]

Satan is the "chief angelic prince", as indicated in one of his former relationships with the ancient trading centers of Mesheck and Tubal. Magog's younger brothers were the founders of these two early and prominent commercial centers of trade. [Ezekiel 27:13; 38:2]

The Lord addresses satan as gog in Ezekiel 38 and satan is called gog again in Revelation 20. The ancient land of Magog in the Middle East has been and will be satan's point of origin and focus upon the earth at the time of the end during the coming tribulation period. He will be released again after 1,000 years to cause another human rebellion and then he will be destroyed in the Lord's lake of fire.

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #1 on: Sat Sep 11, 2010 - 22:54:26 »

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #2 on: Sat Sep 11, 2010 - 23:50:14 »
Very Interesting.

When I look in 1 Chronicles 1:5 The sons of Japheth; Gomer, and Magog, and Madai, and Javan, and Tubal, and Meshech, and Tiras. 6And the sons of Gomer; Ashchenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah

I find Gog as a son of Joel in 1 Chronicles 5:4The sons of Joel; Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son,

Interesting as well.

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #3 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 00:34:10 »
One of the reasons I find this so interesting is in Ezekiel 39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

Gog is buried in Israel. I find that very interesting.

Also the timing. When we look at the place we find these names regarding the last war. First in Ezekiel 38. But, prior in Ezekiel 37 we find the Valley of Dry Bones and what is describing a wild physical resurrection and the full restoration of the Kingdom, Judah & Israel under "my servant David" - Christ.

In Revelation 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 
Is not only a post resurrection event, but also a post millenial event.

Interesting?

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #3 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 00:34:10 »

Offline jobe

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 01:18:14 »

Here is what I think most of it is the same with you
After the troops of the dragon obliterated or water thereof was dried up,(16:12) in iraq, the dragon will gather the rest of his followers to Armageddon, on the plain of Esdraelon or Jezreel, southwest of Nazareth, from all over the world by working miracles, kind of instant mater transportation or teleportation, as Jesus spoken, “I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left {Luke 17:35-36}. The key explanation is after the question by his disciples, Where, Lord? He answered, “Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #4 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 01:18:14 »



Offline Truth Files

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #5 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 06:29:47 »
Tonka and jobe,

Brief comments .....

1Chronicles
5:4 The sons of Joel; Shemaiah his son, Gog his son, Shimei his son,

5:5 Micah his son, Reaia his son, Baal his son

I don't think there is any necessarily any connection here with the Gog [satan] of Ezekiel 38 and just an arbitrary naming of an indivdual human

Notice for example that there is one who is named Baal as well .... Baal was also a pagan god of the ancient Canaanites

So I see this as coinsidental with no connection to the Gog of Ezekiel 38

Ezekiel
39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

I believe that the Lord is referring to satan's loss at Armageddon here and his entire srtategy through his human agents wil be foiled

So it is not the literal burying of gog himself, but of his human followers

The very next thing that gog [satan] will experience is his capture [just after the battle of Armageddon] and confinement in the abyss for 1000 years [Revelation 19:11-20; 20:1-3] .... notice that he will also loose his two angelic beasts [Abaddon-Apollyon and the false prophet] at Armageddon .... these will be destroyed in the lake of fire ..... satan [gog] will experience the same fate after 1000 years of confinment in the abyss [Revelation 20:7-10]  
« Last Edit: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 17:08:56 by Truth Files »

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #6 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 13:39:24 »
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Not to split hairs, but, the lauguage seems clear enough. In the Post-Millenial Age Satan decieves the nations, Gog & Magog.

So Gog & Magog can mean alot of things. The root word for nations used in the verse is ἔθνη, transliterated as ethnē, which means a race, a people, a nation or nations.

Just like the Believers are a nation, a people, because they are heirs to the Kingdom of Christ. The nations of Gog & Magog could be a people who follow the luciferian doctrine of self-exaltation, thus easily decieved. Gog & Magog could also represent a people defined by borders of land like we typically see nations today. It could mean a lot of things, even things we do not have all the information.

We see in Revelation 10:4 that John was not allowed to reveal the knowledge of the Seven Thunders -
 "4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

Even the great prophet Daniel did not understand the events.
Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

« Last Edit: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 13:50:59 by TonkaTim »

Offline Joshleet

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #7 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 15:36:30 »
Revelation 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Not to split hairs, but, the lauguage seems clear enough. In the Post-Millenial Age Satan decieves the nations, Gog & Magog.

So Gog & Magog can mean alot of things. The root word for nations used in the verse is ἔθνη, transliterated as ethnē, which means a race, a people, a nation or nations.

Just like the Believers are a nation, a people, because they are heirs to the Kingdom of Christ. The nations of Gog & Magog could be a people who follow the luciferian doctrine of self-exaltation, thus easily decieved. Gog & Magog could also represent a people defined by borders of land like we typically see nations today. It could mean a lot of things, even things we do not have all the information.

We see in Revelation 10:4 that John was not allowed to reveal the knowledge of the Seven Thunders -
 "4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not."

Even the great prophet Daniel did not understand the events.
Daniel 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? 9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.



   I agree with youjr statements here Tonkatim.  "Gog" is certianly defined by the Word of God as a seperate entity From Satan.  That is not to say that they could very easlily be influenced BY Satan.

  I see "Gog" destroyed and Buried After this midweek invasion into Israel.  It will be THE  true Armies of the antichrist, or the ARMIES HE WILL END UP CONTROLLING AFTER THIS VICTORY OVER GOG.  5/6'S OF GOG'S ARMIES ARE DESTROYED, The SAME TIME they invade Israel.  (Not 42 months later).

   What few today realize is the undercurrect that is occuring when this event happens. To understand this ""undercurrent", we need to understand what else IS occuring when "gog' invades.

    There is not only an invasion into the middle east (israel) by the almost entire Islamic world, we also witness a great "shaking in the land of Israel' (an earthquake).  We also witness "all the men on the face of the earth shall "shake at my presence".  Now if one wasn't nowledgeable of prophetic scripture, what would one conclude is occuring?


     
Quote
Rev. 6;`17  "For the great day of his wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand?"


    The Lord does divinely intervine the same time Israel is invaded by Gog.  Although what we see in scripture focuses on what is occuring in the middle east at this time, the ramifications of these events will be felt world wide. WE can make this conclusions, because we see it its  "ALL" the men on the face of the earth, shaking at the presence of the Lord, at the climax of this battle.

    We are witnessing the fulfillment of the Ezekiel 38 war occuring Midweek, in the sixth seal of revelation. WE are witnessing the very same events that have been prophesied to occur,  in Ezekiel 38.  We first witness a great earthquake, The fig tree is being shaken prematurely (it isn't the true harvest time yet), and the great men, and rich,  chief captians, and might men, cry for the mountains and rocks to fall on them, to hide them from the face of Him that is sitting on the throne.  This is what was prophesied to occur at the climax of the ezekiel 38 war.  The problem is, it is THESE PEOPLE that are concluding that it is the "GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH".

  iT IS AFTER THIS EVENT MIDWEEK, DO WE WITNESS SATAN BEING CAST OUT OF HEAVEN UNTO THE EARTH, FOR HIS 42 MONTH REIGN!!!!


   FEW TODAY REALIZE, that what is occuring here, is the World, is accepting THESE events as the final Battle of Armageddon.  They are accepting the climax of the Ezekiel 38 war, as the final battle, which is one of the reasons WHY they are concluding it IS the Day of the Lord!!!!

   The second reason WHY they are concluding it IS the day of the Lord, is Because the Lord has somehow Divinely revealed HImself to the entire world (on His throne)  at the climax of this war.  This,  combined with the climax of the ezekiel 38 war occuring, Is all part of Our Fathers "strong delusion" he promised (through Paul) he would bring on those that Love not the truth.

   The people in the sixth seal will truely and sincerely believe that what they just experienced WAS the day of the Lord,  and this is the reason WHY they will accept the False Messiah, as the True.  "God shall send them "strong delusion, that they believe THE LIE".

  The Lord will use "Gog" as part of His end time plan, But Gog will be destroyed Just prior to the reign of the false messiah.  Although it will be the Lord that divinely intervines, and saves Israel midweek, the World will give the credit for this TO the false messiah. Thinking it was HIM they saw sitting in the throne in the Sixth seal.

  These events are all part of the Lord's Strong delusion mankind will have to face, in the near future.

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #8 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 16:28:45 »
Josh,
Would you mind me asking a couple questions?

Is the event described in Ezekiel 38 the same event described in Revelation 20?

If so, why?

If not, why?

Offline Truth Files

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #9 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 18:14:47 »
Not jumping in here, just continuing with additional details related to the subject of this thread:

Ezekiel
39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel


Ezekiel 36; 37; 38; and 39 taken together gives a broad brush overview with focus upon Israel's return to the land of Israel after a very long period of absence.

Ezekiel's presentation of satan's [gog's] forces opposed to the Lord, Israel's return and subsequent invasion, and satan's defeat at Armageddon are the subjects of the vision.

This setting includes the initial invasion and occupation of the land of Israel and the ensuing warfare which will consummate in the battle of Armageddon. [Ezekiel 38:7-12, 38:18-23, 39:3-6]

Ezekiel's description of the war parallels the same battle of Armageddon given in Revelation and includes additional details regarding the Lord's purposes for His direct intervention. [Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

He will call for war [a sword] in the mountains of Israel in order to eliminate the forces of gog and will send His wrath (fire) upon extended geographical areas of the Middle East and beyond to those follow gog and who dwell securely in the coast lands. This is the battle of Armageddon. [Ezekiel 38:18-23; 39:3-29]

The battle will involve satan's human followers fighting among themselves because of the confusion and panic caused by the Lord's direct intervention; and also being driven out and defeated by the Lord. [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38:21; Joel 2,3; Micah 5]

The Lord will extend His wrath to other followers of satan who will be dwelling in the coastal areas of the Middle East and those further away from the main battle area. [Ezekiel 39:6]

Many of the details of events of the 70th week decreed for Israel are not part of Ezekiel's vision. The Lord's focus is directed at satan's initial invasion .... and then the vision moves to his defeat of his angelic and human agencies at Armageddon 1,260 days [42 months] later. [Daniel 9:25-27; 12:1-12; Revelation 11:2; 12:6-14; 13:5]

There will not be an immediate defeat resulting at the point of invasion as some interpret the vision. The scope of the vision does not include the events of the first 1,260 days of 70th week decreed for Israel .... the invasion will come at midweek .... and then the resulting battle of Armageddon will consummate at the end of the second 1,260 days. ["at the same time" should be understood to mean during the period and not an immediate defeat upon invasion .... Ezekiel 38:18]

Satan is addressed in Ezekiel's vision, but his beast and the human little horn are not directly identified. These are three separate entities, but also act as one in many prophetic presentations. Revelation, Daniel, and other scriptures supply related details of satan's angelic and human agents that will be involved. [Daniel 11:36-45; 12:7; Micah 5:5; Revelation 16:13; 19:20; 20:1-10]

The human little horn will be transformed by Abaddon-Apollyon's full possession and he will have great power and supernatural angelic abilities far beyond human capacity that will be bestowed by satan [gog]. [Daniel 8:9-12; 2Thesalonians 2:9; Revelation 13:4; 13:13]

Satan [gog] will move from his primary place of habitation out of the ancient land of Magog [northern Iraq today] to attack the land of Israel. The original land of Magog was in the northern part of the Middle East's fertile crescent sector and gog's initial base of operation will begin there again at the time of the end.

This area today includes parts of north eastern Syria [Put], eastern Turkey [Gomer], northern Iraq [Cush], north western Iran [Persia], and parts of Armenia and Georgia [Togarmah].

Canaan was a descendant of Ham and his descendants inhabited the eastern Mediterranean seaboard and the coastal and central regions of Anatolia [Asia Minor]. Primary examples would be the Canaanites, Phoenicians, and Hittites.

The land of Shinar was the location of the Sumerian culture developed by the descendants of Noah's sons Shem and Ham. Abraham was a descendant of Shem and lived in the Babylonian province of Ur. [Genesis 10, 11]

Nimrod was a descendant of Ham through Cush and built several of the first cities in the Tigris and Euphrates river valley. Asshur was a descendant of Shem and built Nineveh, the later core city of the Assyrians. [Genesis 10:8-10; 10:11]

Ancient Babylon was located in the land of Shinar which was northwest of the Persian Gulf and this area is in the southeastern portion of Iraq today. The original land of Magog including Mesheck, Tubal, Gomer, and Togarmah's settlements were all located in the region between the land of Canaan and the land of Shinar.

The land of Magog was later invaded and ruled by others including Akkadian/Assyrian domination toward the end of the first millennia after the flood. This vast land mass included the northern areas around Mount Ararat, south and west to the borders of the Canaanite civilizations, and south and east to the borders of the Sumerian civilization.

Cush, Put, and Persia are mentioned next. The reference to Persia would include those inhabiting an area east of the Zargos Mountains, and this would be Iranian territory today. [Ezekiel 38:5]

This area included both the Medes in the north [descendants of Madai of the Zargos mountains] and the Persians in the south [descendants of Elam]. These are mixed and still living in the country of Iran today.

The descendants of Ham were located in at least three different land areas including the Tigris and Euphrates river valley, the Land of Canaan, Egypt, and areas near Egypt in Africa.

The original location of the descendants of Put was in the western extents of the Tigris and Euphrates river valley before migration to Africa.

Gog and his allies will be located in the land areas originally settled by all of these included above at the time of the end. Most of the Middle East is in view.

The present inhabitants of these locations today include original ancestry and others who have moved in and through the area over the centuries of the past. There has been a complex intermixing of Middle Eastern populations and others outside of the area over the vast sweep of historical change.

This leads me to believe that the significance of identifying gog's allies by ethnic origins has more to do with original geographical locations rather than the specific ethnic lineage of subsequent migrations.

The land area in view has been ruled by several early post flood patriarchs starting with Magog and his brothers. The next rulers were the major empires of Akkadian/Assyria, neo-Babylonian, Persian, Grecian, Rome, Arabia, Mongolian, the Ottoman Turks, and the British.

The first five are included in the scope of Bible prophecy which then moves directly to the time of the end of this present age and identifies the future rulers, but does not name them.

The purpose of Israel's invaders will be to attack and occupy the land of Israel and for exterminating the returned remnant of Israel. Psalms 83 indicates the same confederation of Israel's direct enemies adjacent to the nation's borders.

Ezekiel is told that the position of his nation at the time of the end will be one of security [living safely .... in confidence] and permanency [at rest] before the invasion takes place.

Israel has great confidence and the military ability to secure and protect the nation even during great opposition and conflict brought against them.

The Lord will make it possible for Israel to defend themselves and maintain a national presence in the midst of their enemies against overwhelming odds in order to fulfill His plans and purposes.

Israel's existing security and confidence is self-generated. The nation possesses the third ranked overall military force in the world and they are fearless when pushed against the wall by their enemies.

The Lord states His intentions very clearly in Ezekiel's vision. His intervention and related actions will be to reveal Himself so that the nations will know that He is the creator of the universe and the one and only true God. [Ezekiel 38:23, 39:25-29]

There are common threads that run throughout the Middle East today which include the religion of Islam and the existing inhabitants who are the traditional enemies of Israel.

It is my opinion that Islam is replacement theology for Judaism and Christianity. The teachings of the religion display distinct satanic hatred against Israel and against believers in Jesus Christ.

It is also interesting to note that the area today is divided into several states which resemble the little horn's [beast's] divided dominion at the time of the end [Daniel 2:31-45; 7;7-14; Revelation 17:12-17].

Daniel is told that these would remain divided politically [10 kings, horns], but will be mixed in the seed of men [genetically].

Their unity will come about because of the leadership of the little horn. [Daniel 2:40-43; 7:19-23; Revelation 17:7-17]

It seems that the prevailing religion Islam, the ancestry of its adherents, and its historical hatred for Israel, is the glue that will consolidate satan's strategy at the time of the end. [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 36; 38; 39]

If Islam is part of the process, satan will be in good position to leverage the conditions that this religion has amplified. He may have been the instigator in 600 A.D. when Mohammed contrived Islamic monotheism.

This religion is not identified by name in the Bible although the events, actions, and behavior of the little horn and his followers described in scripture resemble fundamental Islam today.

The Lord's purpose of Ezekiel's vision adds to an even larger theme which includes the final destruction and dismantling of the rule of all nations. [Psalms 2; Jeremiah 30:1-11]

He will establish the nation of Israel as the center of His literal 1,000 year long Kingdom on the earth. [Micah 4; Revelation 19:11-15; 20:1-4]

There will be universal recognition and acceptance of the Lord's rightful position as creator and ruler of the universe and the earth as the result of His intervention.

The proper identification of Gog is essential for the correct understanding of Ezekiel 38 and 39. Gog is satan who works through his angelic and human agents.

This satanic deception is his beast .... the "man of lawlessness" .... the angelic destroyer of the byss in the little horn, human king of the north. This beast will rule over the core inhabitants of Middle East and will cause great tribulation and destruction upon the earth. [Revelation 12:12]

The Lord will defeat satan at the battle of Armageddon and his human confederation will be vanquished. Satan [gog] will ultimately fail to halt the Lord's plans and purposes and he will be destroyed in the lake of fire [Revelation 20:10].

Offline Joshleet

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #10 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 18:21:53 »
Josh,
Would you mind me asking a couple questions?

Is the event described in Ezekiel 38 the same event described in Revelation 20?

If so, why?

If not, why?

  I have considered this situation, and wondered if not perhaps, we are trying to apply the Ezekiel 38 war to the wrong trime frame.

  The answers to your questions lays within the reasons behind WHY the invasion of Ezekiel 38 occurs in the first place.  Consider what occurs at the climax of the Ezekiel 38 war...


        
Quote
Ezekiel 20-21 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, AND ALL THE MEN THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, SHALL SHAKE AT MY PRESENCES,  and the mountqains shall be thrown down, and the steep placews shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground, AND I WILL CALL FOR A SWORD AGAINST HIM THROUGHOUT ALL MY HOLY MOUNTAINS, SAITH THE LORD GOD:  EVERY MAN'S SWORD SHALL BE AGAISNT hIS BROTHER.

    LETS CONSIDER WHAT IS OCCURING HERE. If this was the event that is supposed to occur in Rev. 20,  Then why are all the men on the face of the earth now shaking at the "presence' of God?   Christ will have already ruled on earth  for nearly 1000 years....

     Secondly, we see the Lord call for a sword against the invading armies of ezekiel 38.  Every MANS SWORD shall be against his Brother.   This is NOT what is prophesied to occur when "Gog" raises his ugly Head at the end of the 1000 years.  The Lord will destroy this army very quickly at the  rebellion that occurs after the 1000 year reign.

     Lastly, this war cannot be the final battle of Armageddon either.  This final war is fought between the Antichrist, and His hordes of fallen angelics, Vs.  Christ, and His returning armies.  Although this war will encompass actual physical armies, The main focus of this battle is between armies made up of Spiritual beings, being fougfht in the physical reallm.


    It will be at the climax of the ezekiel 38 war, where we witness the first time,  Those of the Spiritual realm, manisfest themselves in the physical.   We witness the World, Shaking at the presence  of the Lord in Ezekiel 38:20, and in the sixth seal of revelation.  These are the same events. We will also witness that it is at this time, Satan will be cast out of Heaven, with His fallen angelics,

    it is no surprise that the World has accepted the idea that the day of the Lord has begun at this time.  They are witnessing events,  events one would consider "supernatural"  occuring at this time.  

Offline Truth Files

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #11 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 19:07:14 »
A testing of the prophetic details

Who can see the differences in these passages of scripture?

Are they both viewing the same exact time; or are they different and separate events?

Detection of the differences is significant and necessary for end time study

These two:

Revelation
6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Matthew
24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

These two:

Ezekiel
39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

39:10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

39:13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

39:14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

39:15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

39:16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

39:18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

39:19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

39:20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Revelation
20:1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Who can see the exact parallels of the following passages of scripture?

Ezekiel
38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.

38:19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

38:21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.

38:22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

38:23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

39:1 Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

39:3 And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

39:4 Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

39:5 Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

39:7 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

39:8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

39:10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

39:11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

39:12 And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

39:13 Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

39:14 And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

39:15 And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

39:16 And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

39:17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

39:18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

39:19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

39:20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

39:21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

39:22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

39:23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

Revelation
14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

14:16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

14:20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

« Last Edit: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 19:45:58 by Truth Files »

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #12 on: Sun Sep 12, 2010 - 19:21:40 »
Josh
I understand what you're saying about the 6th seal.

I asked those questions because in my heart of hearts I'm not completely sure myself.
At times Ezekiel 37 can make me think Ezekiel 38 does line up with Revelation 20. Which leads to alot of questions I haven't resolved, yet.

Which leads to me back to Rev 10:4 & Daniel 12:8.

If even Daniel did not understand & John was forbidden to reveal all (knowledge of the Seven Thunders), these are cautions to me. So I wait patiently & study the scriptures for knowledge.

Offline Joshleet

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #13 on: Tue Sep 14, 2010 - 21:47:49 »
Josh
I understand what you're saying about the 6th seal.

I asked those questions because in my heart of hearts I'm not completely sure myself.
At times Ezekiel 37 can make me think Ezekiel 38 does line up with Revelation 20. Which leads to alot of questions I haven't resolved, yet.

Which leads to me back to Rev 10:4 & Daniel 12:8.

If even Daniel did not understand & John was forbidden to reveal all (knowledge of the Seven Thunders), these are cautions to me. So I wait patiently & study the scriptures for knowledge.

   Hi TonkaTim,

    Nothing wrong with having a healthy defense up, concerning prophetic scripture.   Lots of crazy ideas floating around out there now!!

    Whenever I share what I do, I always say, You can accept it, you can reject it, you can research it out for your self.  I can only share what the Lord has  Shared with me,  But its the Job of the Holy Spirit to confirm.


     There is a PROPER  perspective of Prophetic scripture, that unless we view  these events from this proper time perspective,  all we will get is a whole lot of mans ideas of what HE THINKS IT IS STATING.  Understanding this perspective, lies within what was told daniel concerning these events. ;



Quote
daniel 12:9  And he said, go thy way Daniel, FOR THE WORDS ARE CLOSED UP AND SEALED TILL THE TIME OF THE END.



   What is this scripture really trying to tell us?   We have a natural tendancy to try to view prophetic scripture from a "futuristic perspective".  What I mean by this, is that from our current time perspective, we try to view into the fuiture to try to understand these scriptures.  SCriptures however, tell us that UNTILL ONE FINDS THEMSELVES GOING THROUGH THESE ACTUAL EVENTS,  ONE WILL NOT UNDERSTAND EXACTLY WHAT IS OCCURING.  The book of revelation is set up the very same way.

  We do however, being the Children of the Most High God, have the  same privledge  as John did in revelations, and  being in and led of the Spirit, we can view events  as John did, as they are actually occuring.  IF we do not view prophetic scripture from this time perspective, they will not make any sense whatsoever. 

   By viewing these events of revelation as John did, we can stop at any given time,  view what has ALREADY HAPPENED,  what is currently happening, and what is still yet future from our current point in prophetic time.

 Here is a couple of Good examples.  Lets place ourselves as the events of the sixth seal are occuring.  What have we witnessed up to this time?  The first five seals.  What do they contain?  The very thing That jesus spoke of as "birthpians".  What is currently happening in the sixth seal?  We are witnessing a group of unbelievers accepting  certian events that they are proclaiming IS the day of the Lord.


  What is still yet future from the sixth seal?  The trumpets, which include Satan being cast out of heaven, with His hordes of fallen angelics in the fifth and sixth trumpets.  We then witness a time "pause" between the Sixth and Last trumpet.  In this time "pause, we witness the description of the 42 month reign of the false messiah. At the sounding of the last trumpet, we witness the sickles thrust in (chapter 14), as the world is prepared to face the TRUE Day of the Lord, which follows the 42 month reign of the false messiah.


   An other good example of properly viewing prophetic scripture, Is we can stop at the POint John is told he must prophecy "again" in chapter 10:11.  We can ask, What has John Witnesed UP TO this time?  What is He currently witnessing, and from His vantage point, what is still yet future?

   Everything John has witnessed up to this time propheticly, In the seals and first six trumpets, have been events that Have ALL occured Prior to the 42 month reign of the false messiah.  These events have been a near perfect "mirror image" of events yet to come,  that will occur Prior to the return of the TRUE Messiah.  Thus the reason WHY John was told, He must "prophecy again"

Offline jobe

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #14 on: Tue Sep 21, 2010 - 23:26:34 »
Here is what I think,
Before I explain my writing about Gog , I think it is necessary to say something about our translation of revelation. As I see it, revelation is written in circle, not typically like other books paragraph after paragraph, and in order to translate it correctly, we should know the words or sentences that confirm to us the end of the paragraph, that is instead of continue reading to the end of the paragraph. Words and sentences like, judgment, last supper, it is done, great earthquake.  Words and sentences like these will tell us event which will happen only once in the universe. What I am trying to say is For example,

“And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness

Visionary

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #15 on: Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 00:58:29 »
Ezekiel 38 Gog is the prime minister of Rosh/Russia. Tubal exists today as part of russia. Persia is China who just years ago became allies with Russia. Cush are the northern provinces of Africa including Egypt. Note verse 12 of Ezekiel 38 ... resettled ... Jews have been returning to Israel consistently for some time now and the reason for the pressure of a peace settlement with her enemies.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #16 on: Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 13:43:05 »
Ezekiel 38 Gog is the prime minister of Rosh/Russia. Tubal exists today as part of russia. Persia is China who just years ago became allies with Russia. Cush are the northern provinces of Africa including Egypt. Note verse 12 of Ezekiel 38 ... resettled ... Jews have been returning to Israel consistently for some time now and the reason for the pressure of a peace settlement with her enemies.
Mmmm... based on the geography:

Gog/Magog would be in Ukraine.  Tubal would be northern Turkey.  Persia would be Iran (they still call themselves Persian btw).

Visionary

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Re: Who Is Gog?
« Reply #17 on: Tue Oct 05, 2010 - 14:03:36 »
Thanks cliff. I was thinkin of Marco Polo going to persia-china. Borders have changed somewhat in the passing of time. Meshech-Moscow. Notice many nations gathered with them... Ezekiel 38:15 from the far north-Russia. And notice the response of the other nations... Verse 13. I once saw a program documenting the history of the Czars of Russia and it was quite interesting in regard to their lust for power and greed differing somewhat from other nations.

 

     
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