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Author Topic: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?  (Read 2144 times)

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Offline EDEN2004

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Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 12:44:46 »
Rev 13:3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

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Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 12:44:46 »

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #1 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 16:29:57 »
Rev 13:3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Theologians speculate between a few possible ideas.

1) Seeing how God's angel describes the seven heads as a line of seven kings with the sixth being alive during St. John's time, some believe the "king" to be the emperor Nero who committed suicide.

2) When we actually read the entire verse the Bible records St. John observing this beast and it's sixth king "after" it's wound had already healed. Meaning that in the reign of the sixth king, which was during St. John's lifetime, the Beast had already been mortally wounded and recovered from the wound.

In keeping with those scriptural precedents, some theologians believe that the "king" who received the mortal wound was the first king; Julius Caesar. This mortal wound extends beyond destroying the caesarian line but also refers to the affliction of civil war that followed Julius Caesar's assassination.

In this school of thought the recovery from the mortal wound of assassination of Caesar refers to the victory of Gaias Augustus Ocatavian Caesar over his uncles killers Brutus and Cassius. Once healed the Roman Republic was restored as the Roman Empire and Caesar's dynasty would rule as the sole head of the empire for the next seven generations.

Under this empire Christians suffered through two Great Persecutions with the imperial sword killing all but three of the Apostles, pretty much all of their first generation students and many of the early church leaders.

3) There is a third few which is a bit more modern. The belief is that the head that received the mortal wound refers to the Pope that was arrested by Napolean which led successfully to the dissipation of the western Papacy's temporal authority.
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 16:36:21 by LightHammer »

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #1 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 16:29:57 »

Offline Linker

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #2 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 16:36:34 »
Satan's beast has 7 heads [kingdoms]

5 have fallen [5 ancient kingdoms of the Middle East]

The 5th kingdom was Syrio/Babylonia .... the beast's 5th

His lost his 5th kingdom just before the first century ["head" wounded] and was sent to the abyss [Syrio/Babylonia was overthrown by Rome]

The "head" is symbolic for a kingdom .... the beast, who is a fallen angel, does not have 7 literal heads

This beast is not human .... he is the angelic king of the abyss .... no human could ever live long enough to exist over the extended time frame of his appointed rule over human kingdoms

He rules over 7 literal human kingdoms and related king "positions" on the earth for Satan

This beast will come out of the abyss to rule the Middle East again

.... his 6th smaller ["head" healed], and expanded 7th divided kingdom with 10 other kings

[Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 13:1-4; 17:8-14]
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 18:55:59 by Linker »

larry2

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #3 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 17:25:47 »

Rev 13:3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
 

It is the antichrist, the little horn of Daniel Chapter Seven, but considering previous posts of yours, I believe you already know this.   ::smile::

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #3 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 17:25:47 »

Offline Linker

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #4 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 18:07:10 »
Satan's beast is his "anti-christ" who will be manifested in the human little horn of Daniel's visions

This angelic beast from the abyss will fully possess the human little horn of Daniel's visions [Revelation 9:11; 11:7; 17:8-14]

Notice that the little horn is not called the "little Horn" in Revelation's unfolding ..... this is because the beast has incarnated him .... the world will be astonished when they see this manifestation of the beast

The beast and the little horn will be come one ..... a first time experience for humans to encounter and observe ... this will be of the working of Satan [2Thessalonians 2:8-9]

This beast of Revelation will have the same 10 other human kings subordinated to him just as the human little horn does in Daniel's visions .... they are the same

He is called the "Assyrian" [designating the location of his rising at the time of the end] ..... and his mentor and  inspiration is Satan [the one that the Lord addresses as gog] [Ezekiel 38:17]

 
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 21:49:36 by Linker »

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
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Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #5 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 20:30:08 »

Rev 13:3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
 

It is the antichrist, the little horn of Daniel Chapter Seven, but considering previous posts of yours, I believe you already know this.   ::smile::

Nice post Larry! rofl

Jdg_4:2  And the LORD sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, that reigned in Hazor; the captain of whose host was Sisera, which dwelt in Harosheth of the Gentiles.
Jdg 4:3  And the children of Israel cried unto the LORD: for he had nine hundred chariots of iron; and twenty years he mightily oppressed the children of Israel.

Sisera is captain of the giants (sons of God daughters of men, hybrids).
The twenty years bolded above is 2 tens.....first coming second and second coming of Jesus. A prophecy that the beast will rule until Jesus comes back the second time.

Jdg_4:21  Then Jael Heber's wife took a nail of the tent, and took an hammer in her hand, and went softly unto him, and smote the nail into his temples, and fastened it into the ground: for he was fast asleep and weary. So he died.
 
The deadly head wound sent Sisera to the pit. The next part in Isaiah is the best!

Isa 22:22  And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
Isa 22:23  And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place; and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house.

The cross fastened in a sure place, into the skull, Golgotha!

The beast that rises up from the pit is not a Roman, not a Jew, not even human, he is a hybrid. The giants will be coming back into the land soon I think.

The twenty years bolded above is 2 tens.....first coming second coming of Jesus. A prophecy that the beast will rule until Jesus comes back.

Does anyone have any idea who the other 7 heads are? And no Larry2, I don't know. lol

Amo

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #6 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 20:34:52 »
The following is taken from SABBATH, SUNDAY, AND THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION -

The question is of course, can we find an event in history relating to Papal Rome, that could rightly represent her receiving an apparent deadly wound to her head? The answer, of course, is yes.  Observe the following quotes.

When, in 1797, Pope Pius VI fell grievously ill, Napoleon gave orders that in the event of his death no successor should be elected to his office, and that the Papacy should be discontinued.

But the pope recovered; the peace was soon broken; Berthier entered Rome on the tenth of February, 1798, and proclaimed a republic.  The aged pontiff refused to violate his oath by recognizing it, and was hurried from prison to prison into France.  Broken with fatigue and sorrows, he died on the nineteenth of August, 1799, in the French fortress of Valence, aged eighty two years.  No wonder that half Europe thought Napoleon’s veto would be obeyed, and that with the Pope the Papacy was dead.--- “ The Modern Papacy,

larry2

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #7 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 21:07:18 »
All I call say is bull-feathers. “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck;" walla, it's the antichrist duck.
 ::thankyouthankyou::

Revelation 4:1  After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither (heaven), and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
 
This presents a question: are the following scripture verses subsequent to Revelation 4:1; a time yet future?

Revelation 13:3-8 
3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4  And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5  And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. Second half of tribulation, or Jacob's trouble.
6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #8 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 21:10:25 »
Wait how can you apply Revelation 17 an entity that was wounded, healed and on it's sixth of eight rulers in the first century to an power that you claim was wounded 208 years ago?

Are we all reading the same Bible?

Offline Linker

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #9 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 21:21:10 »
"Does anyone have any idea who the other 7 heads are? And no Larry2, I don't know"


The prophetic scriptures have your answer:

The 5 fallen human kingdoms of the beast were neo-Babylon [head of gold], Medo/Persian, [silver arms] the greater Persian [silver chest], Alexander the Great's Asian empire [bronze belly], and Syrio/Babylonia [the northern division of Alexander's broken empire] [northern leg of bronze] [see Daniel's image in chapter 2] .... all fell before the first century

Also see the same kingdoms in Daniel 7 [lion, bear, raised up side of the bear, leopard, the northern head of the divided Leopard]

The secular historical record also confirms this exact succession of Middle Eastern empires of the past

Rome and subsequent empires following like the Arabian, Mongol, Parthian, Ottoman, and British are not included in the scope of the visions of the Bible prophets [the beast has been in the abyss during this time frame and cannot interact with humanity until he is released at the time of the end of this present age]

.... there are only 7 kingdoms of the beast presented in the scope of the visions


Revelation's account of the beast's kingdoms is exactly the same as presented in Daniel, but adds 2 to complete the 7 .... there are 2 remaining and these will emerge at the time of the end ..... the first smaller kingdom of the little horn, and the next expanded divided with 10 other kings

The beast will be released at the beginning of the 70th week decreed for Israel [same as the tribulation period] and his human little horn will rise with a smaller kingdom in northern Mesopotamia [his 6th kingdom] .... the beast will then expand this kingdom into his 7th and final kingdom with 10 other kings by making alliances and by conquering [Ezekiel 30; Daniel 7:7-25; 11:36-44; 12:7; Revelation 13:4]

Notice that the beast carries the symbolic trappings of his past human kingdoms of the Middle East [Revelation 13:1-2]
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 21:55:19 by Linker »

Offline Linker

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #10 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 21:52:50 »
"This presents a question: are the following scripture verses subsequent to Revelation 4:1; a time yet future?"


All of them are

John's spirit was transported into the future to be shown the time of the end still pending today

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #11 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 21:54:10 »
"This presents a question: are the following scripture verses subsequent to Revelation 4:1; a time yet future?"


All of them are

John's spirit was transported into the future to be shown the time of the end still pending today

Chapter and verse.

Offline Linker

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #12 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 22:00:57 »
All of Revelation's unfolding beginning in chapter 4:2 through the end of the book is still pending

Some of the chapters include historical reach backs for overview like chapter 12 and 17

And this prophetic vision of the Lord's revelation repeats subject details as the narrative rolls forward

Offline LightHammer

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #13 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 22:06:27 »
All of Revelation's unfolding beginning in chapter 4:2 through the end of the book is still pending

Some of the chapters include historical reach backs for overview like chapter 12 and 17

And this prophetic vision of the Lord's revelation repeats subject details as the narrative rolls forward

I hear you saying that but you made a claim and I asked for biblical substantiation.

larry2

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #14 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 22:21:00 »

All of Revelation's unfolding beginning in chapter 4:2 through the end of the book is still pending

Some of the chapters include historical reach backs for overview like chapter 12 and 17

And this prophetic vision of the Lord's revelation repeats subject details as the narrative rolls forward


The history of the church is Revelation Chapters One through Three. From Revelation 4:1 John only sees thing hereafter from the perspective of the Lord's Day when He sits on His own throne. John was caught forward to that day, and heard behind him a voice, turned and describes this present time.

Offline Linker

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #15 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 22:31:18 »
"I hear you saying that but you made a claim and I asked for biblical substantiation"

The Bible has your asking .... the scriptures themselves have your answer

.... but you may think differently

I believe that Revelation's unfolding is still pending just as I said ..... the things "hereafter"

The Bible is one book and the visions of the Bible prophets are totally congruent with the Lord's book of Revelation ..... and there is much unfulfilled and yet to come in both ..... events that have just not happened .... but they will .... all of them with 100% accuracy

After what? ..... after chapters 2-3 which are the "things that are" ..... and still are today

.... the setting of the Lord's church and His evaluation of the same by example

You may have a different view

So we will just have to agree to disagree as it seems

..... and we will wait to see .... the Lord is going to finish all of it in His due time  



  

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #16 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 22:37:45 »
"The history of the church is Revelation Chapters One through Three. From Revelation 4:1 John only sees thing hereafter from the perspective of the Lord's Day when He sits on His own throne. John was caught forward to that day, and heard behind him a voice, turned and describes this present time."


Absolutely true
« Last Edit: Tue Apr 24, 2012 - 07:18:56 by Linker »

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #17 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 23:04:07 »
All I call say is bull-feathers. “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck;" walla, it's the antichrist duck.
 ::thankyouthankyou::

Revelation 4:1  After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither (heaven), and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
 
This presents a question: are the following scripture verses subsequent to Revelation 4:1; a time yet future?

Revelation 13:3-8 
3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4  And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5  And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. Second half of tribulation, or Jacob's trouble.
6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Larry2, the details are of the end times are laid out in the old testament.
Moses - Moses couldn't lead the children of Israel into the promise land because he was a shadow of the first coming.
Joshua - Joshua a type of the second coming of Jesus leads the children of Israel into the promise land.
If you want to know how the events of Revelation will play out, read the books of Joshua and Judges.

I think most of the events you listed are in the future. There is no time frame mentioned here between the head being wounded and the head being healed.
3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Offline EDEN2004

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #18 on: Mon Apr 23, 2012 - 23:15:55 »
Guys there is nothing new under the sun. Everything mentioned in Revelation has a double witness in the old testament.

Jos 6:4  And seven priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall compass the city seven times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets.

Jos 6:5  And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and when ye hear the sound of the trumpet, all the people shall shout with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and the people shall ascend up every man straight before him. 

The people ascend up at the long blast of the ram's horn.

I am telling you it is all there, we just have to look for it.

Offline n2thelight

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #19 on: Tue Apr 24, 2012 - 02:33:00 »
The first beast is a political system (one world government)the deadly wound means it shall fall apart,the 2nd beast is satan himself who shall heal that wound....

Revelation 13:11 "And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon."

This beast coming up out of the earth looks like a Lamb [Jesus Christ], yet he speaks like a dragon; because he is the dragon [Satan]. He claims to be Jesus, and most Christians will believe him.

Revelation 13:12 "And he exerciseth all the power [authority] of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

Satan [the Antichrist] uses all the power and authority he has, because it is given to him by God. God allowed the "one worldism" to take place, because it is in God's plan. He gave us that plan, and that is what we are studying now. It is Satan that will cause the wounded political beast, "one world system" to come back together after it falls apart. Then that system, and all the people on the face of the earth will worship Satan. All, except the elect of God, and those sealed in their minds.

Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

Revelation 13:14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles [signs] which he had power [it was given him] to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

This is the whole object for the great tribulation. "DECEPTION"! Satan is going to make an image of this "one world system" [religious beast] and breath life into system. Their will be something symbolic created within the system that will cause the whole world to bow. This reminds me of the "image" created in Babylon's "one world government" under king Nebuchadnezzar, in Daniel 3. At that time there were only three that would not bow to the image.

Revelation 13:15 "And he had power [it was given unto him] to give life [breath] unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed."

Satan while sitting in his temple in Jerusalem is given the power to assign his authority to the new religious beast, the "one world system. He has been given the control of all the people on the earth, and he will require them to worship him as god. Satan [the Antichrist] will require their respect, and he will give protection to them and his system. So both the system, and the Antichrist will demand the respect and worship of all people.

This is in reference to the two witnesses that will be killed, for the trouble they caused to Satan, the people of the earth, and Satan's religious system.

The moment the political beast is healed, it becomes a religious order, and set of moral codes and controls. It will be a copy of Christ's kingdom that will follow, however, it is a complete deception, and cheap imitation.

Revelation 13:16 "And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:"

This is the "Mark of the beast" which is confusing to many today. This mark is in your hand, and in your forehead. Can a electronic chip be put in your hand, and forehead change your beliefs? I don't think so.

"In your hand" is an idiom that means to do Satan's work. You do the work of Satan [the Antichrist] when you bring others to him, or help in his system. This mark in the hand is speaking in a spiritual sense. "In the forehead" is referring to your mind [brain]. Being deceived by Satan in your mind is when you think he is the true Christ, and in ignorance you worship him. No computer chip will condemn you, for it is your faith that you will be judged by.


larry2

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #20 on: Tue Apr 24, 2012 - 02:39:12 »
All I call say is bull-feathers. “If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it must be a duck;" walla, it's the antichrist duck.
 ::thankyouthankyou::

Revelation 4:1  After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither (heaven), and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
 
This presents a question: are the following scripture verses subsequent to Revelation 4:1; a time yet future?

Revelation 13:3-8 
3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4  And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5  And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. Second half of tribulation, or Jacob's trouble.
6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Larry2, the details are of the end times are laid out in the old testament.
Moses - Moses couldn't lead the children of Israel into the promise land because he was a shadow of the first coming.
Joshua - Joshua a type of the second coming of Jesus leads the children of Israel into the promise land.
If you want to know how the events of Revelation will play out, read the books of Joshua and Judges.

I think most of the events you listed are in the future. There is no time frame mentioned here between the head being wounded and the head being healed.
3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but in my opinion the unbelief Moses displayed is in no way a type of Jesus' first coming. E.g. Ye believed Me not, ye trespassed against Me, ye shall not go unto the land I give Israel. Jesus died for our sin, not His own.

Jesus was the firstfruits of them that slept, not denied it, and as we read in Dueteronomy 32:50  Die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people: a sin unto death?

Numbers 20:12. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not,  to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

Dueteronomy 32:51  Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel.

Dueteronomy 32:52 Yet thou shalt see the land before thee; but thou shalt not go thither unto the land which I give the children of Israel.

Offline OurGodIsOne

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #21 on: Tue Apr 24, 2012 - 07:02:20 »
I believe it is the Islamic Caliphate that is trying to be reinstated right now.

Offline Linker

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Re: Who was/is the head with the deadly wound?
« Reply #22 on: Tue Apr 24, 2012 - 07:26:33 »
"I believe it is the Islamic Caliphate that is trying to be reinstated right now."


Satan's beast in the human little horn will fill this role according to scripture .... by location and by description given of those who will follow

This all has to do with a returned remnant of Israel and the nation's surrounding ancient enemies

Many do not understand the related prophetic scriptures and what is going on in the Middle East today so they do not see the impending drama that is going to unfold

This view takes indepth knowledge of the prophetic visions and a good understanding of recorded ancient and modern history