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Author Topic: Wiping Out The Jews  (Read 2087 times)

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Stucky

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Wiping Out The Jews
« on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 16:05:37 »
By Jack Kelley  www.gracethrufaith.com
 
Q. My question is regarding a statement that you made on your MP3 study of the Book of Mark.  You referenced Hosea 5:15 – 6:1 to support your teaching that in order for the Lord to return the Jewish people would have to officially petition him through a qualified petitioner. You also stated that much of the motivation that Satan has for exterminating the Jewish race is to eliminate the possibility of this happening, and in fact had come very close to accomplishing that objective on more than one occasion. Who are the “qualified

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Wiping Out The Jews
« on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 16:05:37 »

Amo

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #1 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 17:35:55 »

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
[/u]


The new covenant Israel is composed of all those who are in Christ.  There are estimates ranging from 50 to 125 million Christians murdered for their faith during the dark ages alone.  The Devil's war, and therefore this worlds war, is against those in Christ, not those outside of Christ.  There are no people of God, outside of Christ.

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #1 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 17:35:55 »

Stucky

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #2 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 17:56:44 »

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
[/u]


The new covenant Israel is composed of all those who are in Christ.  There are estimates ranging from 50 to 125 million Christians murdered for their faith during the dark ages alone.  The Devil's war, and therefore this worlds war, is against those in Christ, not those outside of Christ.  There are no people of God, outside of Christ.

Another scripture used incorrectly and out of context.

Amo

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #3 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 19:45:10 »
Quote
Another scripture used incorrectly and out of context.

What does this one mean?

Matt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.




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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #3 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 19:45:10 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline rezar

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #4 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 19:53:47 »
Quote
Another scripture used incorrectly and out of context.

What does this one mean?

Matt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.




It means Christ would be for a rising & falling in Israel. Jerusalem was the harlot. Not the Pope Amo! Your still with the "dark ages" time anyway. It was far too future to the Biblical account.


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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #4 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 19:53:47 »



Amo

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #5 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 20:06:29 »
Quote
It means Christ would be for a rising & falling in Israel. Jerusalem was the harlot. Not the Pope Amo! Your still with the "dark ages" time anyway. It was far too future to the Biblical account.

Who was talking about harlots? 

Offline rezar

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #6 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 20:25:24 »
Quote
It means Christ would be for a rising & falling in Israel. Jerusalem was the harlot. Not the Pope Amo! Your still with the "dark ages" time anyway. It was far too future to the Biblical account.


Who was talking about harlots? 


Maybe not there Amo, but u know that i know it's still inevitable, isn't it?! lol. Have a pleasant evening!
rezar
                                     
                                         

Stucky

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #7 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 20:32:06 »
Quote
Another scripture used incorrectly and out of context.

What does this one mean?

Matt 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.


I interpret the bolded parts to mean 43) The people of Israel (unbelievers) will not enter the kingdom because they rejected Jesus.  Salvation will then be offered to Gentiles (believers).  45) Just what it says, they recognize that Jesus is talking about THEM in His parables.

Stucky

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #8 on: Tue Dec 15, 2009 - 20:34:27 »
Bikelight,

For some reason the website won't let me quote your reply.  But anyway, here is what I was going to say to you:

 ::eatingpopcorn:

Oops, sorry moderators, now I understand.   ::blushing::

Amo

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #9 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 08:23:22 »
Quote
I interpret the bolded parts to mean 43) The people of Israel (unbelievers) will not enter the kingdom because they rejected Jesus.  Salvation will then be offered to Gentiles (believers).  45) Just what it says, they recognize that Jesus is talking about THEM in His parables.

Do you not believe that believers are a part of the kingdom now.  Believers are a part of the kingdom now, though they must continue to live in this world, until in God's own timing, they are brought to His literal kingdom.  In this world, believers are already a part of God's kingdom, and non believers are not.  That would of course include non believing Jews.  The gospel was first to them, then to us.  Either one who rejects it, is not a part of the spiritual kingdom of God on this earth, nor will they be in the hereafter.


Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


The above words were spoken by Peter, to the Jews.  When did this truth change in relation to them.  How is it, that so many say they are still God's chosen people, when they will not even acknowledge the above truth addressed specifically to them.



Stucky

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #10 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 18:08:58 »
Quote
I interpret the bolded parts to mean 43) The people of Israel (unbelievers) will not enter the kingdom because they rejected Jesus.  Salvation will then be offered to Gentiles (believers).  45) Just what it says, they recognize that Jesus is talking about THEM in His parables.

Do you not believe that believers are a part of the kingdom now.  Believers are a part of the kingdom now, though they must continue to live in this world, until in God's own timing, they are brought to His literal kingdom.  In this world, believers are already a part of God's kingdom, and non believers are not.  That would of course include non believing Jews.  The gospel was first to them, then to us.  Either one who rejects it, is not a part of the spiritual kingdom of God on this earth, nor will they be in the hereafter.


Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.


The above words were spoken by Peter, to the Jews.  When did this truth change in relation to them.  How is it, that so many say they are still God's chosen people, when they will not even acknowledge the above truth addressed specifically to them.


Genesis 13:14 
The Lord said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, “Lift up your eyes from where you are and look north and south, east and west.  15 All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever.  16 I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted.  17 Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you.

Offline Azrael

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #11 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 18:25:16 »
So goes Israel, so goes the world. We would not be discussing this if it were not for them.

Stucky

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #12 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 18:29:00 »
So goes Israel, so goes the world. We would not be discussing this if it were not for them.

Exactly.

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #13 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 18:53:27 »
Sounds to me like God's covenant with Abraham would last "forever"   

Just to muddy the waters...

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:

Stucky

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #14 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 18:59:56 »
Sounds to me like God's covenant with Abraham would last "forever"   

Just to muddy the waters...

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:


A good example of why one should always use a verse in it's proper context.  Paul was referring to the believing gentiles that are grafted into the Jewish tree:


Romans 9
 1I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

 2That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

 3For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:

 4Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

 5Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

 6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

 7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 9For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sarah shall have a son.

 10And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac;

 11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;)

 12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

 13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

 14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

 19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

 20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

 21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

 25As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

 26And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

 27Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

 28For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

 29And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

 30What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

 31But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

 32Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

 33As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


King James Version

Amo

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #15 on: Wed Dec 16, 2009 - 23:04:18 »

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.


Christ is the vine.  Jews can be graffed in again, if they abide not still in unbelief.  Those who were broken off, and still remain in unbelief, are still broken off. 

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.


Jews that refuse to abide in Christ, have been, and will remain cast off forever, or until they turn and abide in Christ, the vine.  There are no people of God outside of Christ.  The seed of Abraham are those who are in Christ, by faith.

Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?
27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.











Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #16 on: Thu Dec 17, 2009 - 10:31:11 »
Sounds to me like God's covenant with Abraham would last "forever"   

Just to muddy the waters...

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:


A good example of why one should always use a verse in it's proper context.  Paul was referring to the believing gentiles that are grafted into the Jewish tree:

My point exactly, the context explains that Israel is not after the flesh. (Gal 6:16)

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #17 on: Thu Dec 17, 2009 - 10:44:47 »
I agree.  Charles was actually in context there.

Besides, Abraham was promised that he would "be a father of many nations" (Gen 17:4)  Last I checked, Israel is just one nation.

If I might speculate, the Hebrew for the verse makes this...

"become a father to many nations"

...a viable translation as well.

Which looks suspiciously similar to what Paul says here:

Rom 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be. 

::tippinghat::

Stucky

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Re: Wiping Out The Jews
« Reply #18 on: Thu Dec 17, 2009 - 21:08:33 »
Sounds to me like God's covenant with Abraham would last "forever"   

Just to muddy the waters...

Rom 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel:


A good example of why one should always use a verse in it's proper context.  Paul was referring to the believing gentiles that are grafted into the Jewish tree:

My point exactly, the context explains that Israel is not after the flesh. (Gal 6:16)

Charles, I owe you an apology.  I misunderstood your point.  I agree with you completely. I'm sorry.

 

     
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