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Offline LaSpino3

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Wrath or rapture first?
« on: Sun Dec 02, 2018 - 09:38:12 »
Rapture and wrath, or wrath and rapture, which would you believe?

Romans 1:8, “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;”

The objects of God’s anger and wrath are the ungodly, whom he has declared to punish. We have read of God’s wrath manifested to many in this life, and in many awful degrees. We have the cases of Sodom and Gomorrah, the plagues of Egypt, the many punishments and captivities of the Jews; and the many striking judgment on nations and individuals over the past centuries. 
But when that great day of the Lord’s wrath does come, we read in,

Jeremiah 30:7, "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he (Israel) shall be saved out of it." And Jesus said of that day,

Matthew 24:22, "Except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:" And in that time of trouble, John writes,

Revelation 6:15-17, “And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and even bondman (slaves), and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; and said to the mountains and rocks, fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb (Jesus): for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

Well there we have it, the wrath of Jesus Christ on a fallen world.

I knew a man who was engaged to this wonderful faithful woman he claimed to be in love with. He had been engaged for 7 years, and during that period of time he intentionally used verbal and even physical force to get what he wanted from her, and he would constantly threaten her and at times, even injured her. But after 7 years he came to her and said, Honey I love you, will you marry me?”

Well, this is basically what mid and post tribulation believers would have us believe Jesus would do to the bride He claims to love so very much.
Your thoughts,
Laspino3

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Wrath or rapture first?
« on: Sun Dec 02, 2018 - 09:38:12 »

notreligus

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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #1 on: Mon Mar 25, 2019 - 16:14:08 »
1. Devil's wrath
2. Rapture
3. God's own unleashed wrath, not intended for His people.   

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #2 on: Mon Mar 25, 2019 - 16:54:43 »
Hebrews 12
"25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire."


Matthew 24
"29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

"26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be"

"13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

John 14
"1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. "

Online 4WD

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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Mar 26, 2019 - 06:53:09 »
Joh 5:26  For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.
Joh 5:27  And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man.
Joh 5:28  Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
Joh 5:29  and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.


And the whole of the NT is aligned perfectly with that.

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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #3 on: Tue Mar 26, 2019 - 06:53:09 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

notreligus

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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #4 on: Tue Mar 26, 2019 - 11:36:22 »
Hebrews 12
"25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29 For our God is a consuming fire."


Matthew 24
"29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

"26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be"

"13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."

John 14
"1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. "

Yes, God is  a consuming fire.   And I can pick Scriptures to support almost anything.

God Himself came to make if possible that all human beings could be reconciled back to Him.   God, the Father, turned away from Jesus Christ while He was on the cross and all of the sin of mankind was placed upon Him.   God did not save so that He would later destroy the ones He saved. 

My previous comment was one that was an attempt to appeal to the Dispensational who believes in the two-tiered Tribulational Period:  3 1/2 years of Tribulation plus 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation.   The Great Tribulation is when God's own unleashed wrath takes place.   Running to the mountains won't be an option.   

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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #4 on: Tue Mar 26, 2019 - 11:36:22 »



Offline Born.Again888

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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #5 on: Sun Jun 09, 2019 - 14:28:31 »
Rapture first

Antichrist arrives and deceives the lost left behind rebellious-deceived

Antichrist proposes and makes a 7 year peace treaty

in the middle of this 7 year period called the tribulation amongst Christians a ceremony happens in Israel in the new reconstructed temple, the antichrist claims he is god there and the drama begins

From that point there are 1355 days untill the end of the world and the second coming of  Christ   ::amen!::


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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #6 on: Sun Jun 09, 2019 - 15:44:03 »
Rapture first
Your position is against Paul's teaching.
Quote from: Paul
2nd Thessalonians 2:1-5~"Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
Which comes FIRST according to Paul, the man of sin, OR Christ's coming and OUR gathering TOGETHER unto him? You said the rapture comes first, BUT, Paul said that the man of sin is coming FIRST? I'll go with Paul. You are under a present delusion of Satan. Pray that you will be delivered from it.

Offline austins

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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #7 on: Fri Jun 21, 2019 - 14:52:10 »
"The rapture doctrine comes from 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 Verse 17.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with
the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet
the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I will tell you why I included verse 16 in a moment.

The catching up together of those who are alive when the Lord returns, that is the rapture.
So we see there will indeed be a rapture. The controversy with the rapture is not a matter of whether it
is real or not. The controversy is over the timing.

Unfortunately the ministers of Satan have taken simple to understand scripture and twisted it
to deceive unlearned Christians. The ministers of Satan teach that the rapture happens before the Lord
returns at the very end to destroy the wicked and renew the earth for the millennium.
They teach that Christians are getting a special get out of persecution free card to leave this world early.
This is completely wrong and I will show you why it is such a dangerous doctrine to believe.

Let's look at the verses again and see if they can give us any information regarding the timing of the rapture.
In verse 16 we see the Lord returns and at that time the dead in Christ shall rise first. This is important.
The dead in Christ rise first. Then going directly to the next words in verse 17 it says "then". Then meaning
after what just preceded. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together.

What does this mean?
This tells us the resurrection happens first and THEN the rapture happens.
Why is this important?
Because if we can figure out when the resurrection happens then we can know
exactly when the rapture happens because it takes place right after.

Thankfully God is not the author of confusion and has not left us without sound doctrine so that
we are not left in the dark concerning these things.
The Bible tells us 5 different times in the gospel of John when the resurrection takes place.

John 11:24
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on
him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:39
And this is the Fathers will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose
nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The word is clear, the resurrection happens on the LAST DAY.
Therefore the rapture also happens on the last day.

The reason that Satan's ministers have decided to teach the false timing doctrine is because
scripture tells us the Antichrist must first come before the end.
If you are expecting the true messiah Jesus Christ to return before the very end to save
you from the persecution of the Antichrist and his wicked followers then you are actually going to get
the false messiah Antichrist who comes to deceive the world into believing that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away
first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Christians have been martyred (killed for their faith) the last 2000 years since Christ came.
They are being martyred now, even openly in eastern countries. And we will continue to be martyred until the very end.
Few will survive to take part in the rapture. Nobody is getting an escape card in these last days.

It is our duty as Christians to share the truth (edify) with our brothers and sisters.
There are many that are deceived by this false doctrine, prepared to receive the Antichrist.
Please share with them what you have just learned."

This is a quote from the website www.gffg.info

Offline terishere

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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #8 on: Fri Jun 21, 2019 - 18:23:02 »
Your position is against Paul's teaching. Which comes FIRST according to Paul, the man of sin, OR Christ's coming and OUR gathering TOGETHER unto him? You said the rapture comes first, BUT, Paul said that the man of sin is coming FIRST? I'll go with Paul. You are under a present delusion of Satan. Pray that you will be delivered from it.

Amen!

Offline robycop3

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Re: Wrath or rapture first?
« Reply #9 on: Sat Jul 20, 2019 - 13:16:40 »
  The rapture will be first, shortly after the antichrist comes to power. This will be necessary to remove resistance to the mark of the beast, which'll be some sorta implanted microchip.

  The tech for this already exists. But recently, a company offered to implant its employees with a microchip that'd enable them to unlock doors in their HQ building & perform some other functions in that bldg. without the use of cards, passwords, etc.. They almost-unanimously refused, Christian or not, citing the "marka the beast". But with the Christians outta the way, the antichrist will have no trouble selling it to the general public worldwide as a loss and theft-proof replacement for cash, MAC cards, etc. Soon, he will make it compulsory.  Thus, the "trib saints" will have a hard time scoring food, meds, housing, employment, etc.
  Besides, God said He'd keep that His people from that hour of temptation. {"Sinful? it's only a microchip! How can that be sinful?) But God also said ALL who take the "mark" will be condemned!
  Also, with the Christians gone, recognition of the antichrist as the Biblical "beast-man of sin" will be nil. His path to almost-absolute worldwide power will be clear. The "trib saints" will be too few to stop him; they'll be too busy trying to survive & avoiding the beast's "security forces".
  So, the rapture comes first. Very shortly thereafter, the "great trib" will begin.