Author Topic: How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion  (Read 5379 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JERRY C

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1247
  • Manna: 49
  • Gender: Male
  • My hope is built on nothing less, than Jesus' ...
How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion
« on: Thu Sep 15, 2011 - 20:29:26 »
 ::frown::

I do not see this discussion in a "search" of the forum.  if it exists, then we can kill this post.

"How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders" is a GC article by Joe Beam.  interesting article raising some good insights and ideas.

do churches recycle damaged "earthen vessels"?  it seems to me they shop for new and shiny.  damaged pots are discarded and forgotten, IMHO.

any comments?

maybe good resources you know of for/about these purposes?

maybe a list of things that too often trip-up church leaders?

anecdotes?
« Last Edit: Thu Jun 07, 2012 - 19:42:34 by JERRY C »

Christian Forums and Message Board

How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion
« on: Thu Sep 15, 2011 - 20:29:26 »

Offline cds1109

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Manna: 0
  • Gender: Male
Re: How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion
« Reply #1 on: Mon Sep 26, 2011 - 16:19:14 »
I would like to recommend a resource which may fit with your needs.
A NEW book entitled "Facing the Sons of Thunder" provides Biblical
principles for conflict resolution within a Church.

This 250-page, Hard Cover Book, Published By Evangel Publications,
Is A Much Needed Presentation Of Biblical Principles For Conflict Resolution.
Dealing With Topics Of Judgmentalism And Accusation, It Speaks To The
Issues Of The Heart.  This Insightful Work Is Helpful To Pastors, Elders,
Deacons, Counselors, And Church Workers.

Link Deleted per rule:

3.1 You will not post any messages anywhere on this site that are primarily for the promotion or advertising of any website, email address, business, MLM (Multi Level Marketing or pyramid schemes), activity, church, ministry, prophetic services or any other entities or services that you have an affiliation with (ie. no self-promotion).





« Last Edit: Wed Sep 28, 2011 - 21:30:02 by JohnDB »

Offline ejected

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 69
  • Manna: 5
Re: How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion
« Reply #2 on: Thu Oct 20, 2011 - 11:29:22 »
They fall because they are in a position that God has not ordained. I read somewhere on how many hundreds are leaving the ministry weekly/weakly because of burn-out and rampant sin. God did not ordain it for one man to 'do it all' before a paying audience of log lumps. Doesn't help the man, doesn't help the log lumps. Church is deader than dirt right now because God is pulling out His Spirit and writing Ichabod on the door. He loves His people and will not allow for all the falsehood to continue. You 'leaders', so called' need to do what Paul commanded in Acts 20 and 'get a job' so you can help take care of the poor. Quit 'lording it over His heritage' and 'set His people free' so they can begin to 'minister one to another' 1COR12 and 14.
 Start by teaching these chapters to the folks. Then down size the folks into groups of 3 or 4 families. Have them pick a home or place to meet where they can all begin to use their God given functions. You can't minister to the back of someone's head. I tried, it don't work. Doesn't have to be on sunday. The 1st. ekklesia met all days of the week. Every day should be holy, wouldn't you say? So if all are ministering in their gifts and functions according to 1COR12 and 14, who gets paid the salary......nobody. Honour means honour and wages means wages which the apostles/missionaries had a right to. By the way..it was meals only...pretty much. Today I can concede money is involved here but not the TBN life styles of the rich and famous.

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion
« Reply #2 on: Thu Oct 20, 2011 - 11:29:22 »

Offline p.progress

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
  • Manna: 15
Re: How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion
« Reply #3 on: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 09:47:01 »
Quote
They fall because they are in a position that God has not ordained.


I agree. But also with respect to that which Paul speaks of regarding the ordaining of 'episkopos'; he says NOT to commission "a novice" - a *'newly planted' individual (young or even older immature man) to carry out this function in the Ekklesia.

I believe this to be possibly the means to provoke the greatest occurrences of those who fall -  they "fall into the [same] condemnation as the Devil".

How so? Simple. They are groomed in and by a 'system' that is foreign to that which scripture has something very differently to say regarding how, who, why, when and from what source the choosing of men to guide and guard and exemplify Christ in among and on the behalf of their brethren is to work itself out.

It is though futile to speak of these things in many respects. There will be no remedy of these departures of such 'ordained' men from any of the sects that make up the professing Ekklesia. The system is too, too, too entrenched and encrusted in traditional paradigms and the ways of the worldly-wise-man, to ever effect a change through revaluation of the system that breeds all this. No diligent inquire will be made to try to discover if there is something that has been overlooked, no rectifying will be sought for, so no voice will be raised that says in repentance: "We have sinned against the LORD. Let us make amends, amend our ways, cast away our own devises and inventions and make a diligent search to know what is that right way. WE have sown to the wind and have reaped the whirlwind; for that we sought him not "after the due order" at the first; so the LORD our God made a breach upon us."

  

"Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil."

Think about what the process is in the falling of such men. They are green, they lack stability, maturity, wisdom and understanding in way too, too many areas. And they cannot help but try to 'fake it till they make it'.

But Satan is not lazy, and he is way too shrewd and evil to permit one of these un-vetted prematurely set up 'tender shoots' to escape from his wiles. One thing about many young men. Whether they be seemingly mature and stable, or less so, Neither group (types) of these novices are any match for Satan. The skills he has developed and perfected to corrupt and bring down such men are ever being honed...and look no at all the practice he's gotten. These have no business being where they have been allowed by others to be. It requires (I think anyway) years to hone their own skills so as NOT to become shipwreck and fall into the condemnation of Satan. One thing important for us all is to first learn about their own humanity and human fragility. Humility is forged in the fires of trials, tribulations, sufferings, testings and failures, in order to learn to "overcome" whatever is thrown at you - as much as possible.  
A leader is one that actually is competent to lead. And the 'leaders' in the Ekklesia are not to mimic what 'leaders' are and do in the world (save genuine leaders), but they are to lead by example of life and wisdom gained in their pursuits of truth, knowledge, wisdom and understanding of the word and ways of the LORD.

How wonderful when such men then lead by their humble non-pretentious manner of life, not as though they think they have been granted some form of 'authority' to allegedly "rule over" others (their brethren). But rather, they joyfully and wisely serve their brethren in a true attitude of servitude guiding and guarding in and among the midst of and on the behalf of their brethren...which I take to be about the best descriptive picture of what 'episkopos' was meant to be picturing and defining
 


[*Greek #3504; νεόφυτος; neophutos; neh-of'-oo-tos; from G3501 and a derivative of G5453; newly planted, that is, (figuratively) a young convert (“neophyte
« Last Edit: Mon Feb 20, 2012 - 10:16:16 by p.progress »

Offline ejected

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 69
  • Manna: 5
Re: How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion
« Reply #4 on: Mon Feb 27, 2012 - 13:08:53 »
Another major is who knows what true leadership is scrpturally?

Elders are manefest by their character and their maturity in the things of God. They do not flaunt them nor do thy wave a banner 'Look at ME!!' They are obcure servants that set an example. They support the poor, in fact their heart bleeds for the needy. They are not given to avarice nor do they desire filthy lucre.
They are given to teaching and guiding not controlling and demanding. They seek not a pedestal or pulpit or podium. They do not take, they give, as all the body parts are taught to do, esteeming others greater than themselves. They do not wish for a personal following but they instruct others to follow Christ.
They deplore recognition and applause. They abhor presents and gifts. They shudder at the thought of any allegiance to them personally. They tremble at the prospect of favortism being lavished on them by the 'body'. Double honor is theirs for teaching well and their commitment to study but they would prefer to forgo that acknowlegement.
These are the marks of true servanthood and eldership. These are the fruits of the truly qualified leader. They look not for the lime-light but seek the Lamb-light as their reward. Nothing on this dismal earth appeals to them. Nothing can tempt them or buy them. Slander is their food and reproach is their mainstay. Rejection by religionists is their meat and their daily diet. To be accepted by the glitter and pomp and success of modern christendom is anathema to their spirit.
Their joy is to be girded about with a simple apron and on their knees tending to the weary and the castaways, the unlovely, the forsaken, the unwashed, all those who are forgotten at the 'church house' door, nay but rather are disdained at the 'church house' door.
They quake at the thought of being called Master, Pastor, Reverend or Apostle. They prefer to just be called brother, a tender to the needs of others.
They know they have an everlasting bounty waiting in heaven, a reward they feel not worthy to receive, but still the only reward they desire is to hear from the lips of the only true Master, Pastor, Reverend 'well done thou good and faithful servant'. Their daily rapture is to see the children of men set free from the curses this earth imparts to it's captives.
This is their very life. Others finding solace in the Saviour. Redemption in the Redeemer. To find their place and joy in Jesus.
To be hid in Him and the stench of their own ways and inclinations and religious dreams burned away as the chaff they are.
Are you looking for a leader? Look hard and long for it may take a while before you come upon him or her, who has discovered this secret path of service. In fact they may not even be where you would expect them for they are not welcome nor are they even given the time of day in most circles we call Christendom. They may not be comely. They may not have money, this latter being a prerequisite for acceptance in most 'churches' for ministry. They may not have anyone down here taking notice of their service, but heaven is watching with shere delight this lonely worker. Hell is raging because of the same.
The 'church' needs them but they know not of this character, this simplicity of servanthood. Congregants may hear of these attributes preached on a weekly basis yet not take and handle them experientially. I guess words are cheap as the saying goes. Hear it taught but see it not. How decieved can we be? How far have we fallen. How cheap have we made the gospel and the followers thereof? Then they ship this fruit world wide to make others 2 fold the devils they are.
I say to the hirelings 'Let my people go!' I say to the folks 'Quit financing this farce that we have so diluted.' I say further to the folks, 'pray that God would raise up these true leaders that are after His heart.' Few there will be that can fit this bill. Few there will be that will dare surrender to this point. God help us! devon and kathy
 
 

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion
« Reply #4 on: Mon Feb 27, 2012 - 13:08:53 »



Online DaveW

  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 14330
  • Manna: 190
  • Gender: Male
  • My grandson Arturus
Re: How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion
« Reply #5 on: Tue Feb 28, 2012 - 11:46:11 »
To the OP - I get an error message when trying to open up the article.  The link has a double http in it.

I was able to pull it up when I figured out what the problem was.

THe only denomination I know that has a set out plan for restoring fallen congregational leaders and pastors with significant time away from the pulpit is the Assembly of God.   Most others either let someone go on in ministry or ban them for life from any kind of ministry. 

That was made available to Swaggart back in the '80s when he had his first moral crash and burn.  But he chose to ignore it and go on as an independant and then had an even worse crash.

Another pastor I know (presbyterian) started off in a large baptist congregation as an assistant pastor and when he came due for full ordination he told the senior pastor that he was having marital difficulties.  That guy gave him a year to straighten it out and it was not mentioned again until the year was up.  No help.  Then he was asked if it was completely settled  - no it wasn't - so he was summarily dismissed frm the clergy.

Amnd another case of a TV pastor who was blindsided by his wife up and divorcing him.  He was resoundly criticized by another christian media figure who accused him of "obtaining a divorce without consequences," when his TV show was not immediatly canceled.

So who is right? THe A/G who tries to restore, the guy that just goes on or the other guy that tells someone struggling to come to grips with a marriage in trouble that he can no longer serve the Lord as a pastor?

It is a difficult question, one that I surely cannot answer.

Offline p.progress

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
  • Manna: 15
Re: How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders - discussion
« Reply #6 on: Tue Feb 28, 2012 - 19:09:33 »
The question was:

Quote
"How to Rescue Fallen Church Leaders"

Rescue fallen 'church' 'leaders'? I would start at the very beginning of this Yellow Brick Road. Which to me is to start with the realities of the situation, which my other post touches upon.  

So, as for the...well...the leader part...that's a moot point now. He (they) don't need rescuing from something that is threatening to 'topple them off the 'pedestal' of their 'position' of 'power' - that already happened -  they have been toppled. Correct?

The task at hand for him (them) is their need to come to grips with how they came to the place (the state) they find themselves in; and discern for their present and future wisdom and edification, what and why, what happened, happened in the first place. Which in his case, in all likelihood was inevitable.

What they need now from others, is for those who would approach him, that they not be what he was; but hopefully (for his sake and theirs) they would be truly spiritual individuals: wise, godly and experienced in how to restore a fallen brother, which is to "restore such an one in the spirit of meekness". Hopefully, such an one is ready and willing to be restored. But again, not to 'leadership', let that one go for the duration. If that is in the mind of such an one, trying to figure out how and when they can once again occupy their position and regain the power. And let us not kid ourselves nor allow others to try to kid us either. It is a question of power and position. And if that is even one of their concerns at this point of the game, they had better recognize where that's coming from and why.
[*Not merely alleged to be 'godly', 'wise' and 'spiritual', i.e. in name only]



One question I believe that a truly repentant ex-'leader' would begin to ponder and take a very serious look into; is to question their current definition and understanding what the actual meaning of the word 'leader' is.

Now that God has their attention...or if the Lord now has this fallen 'leader's' attention - which I tend to doubt He had while this fellow was in hot pursuit of his 'doctorate' (sheepskin) - I would think that such men would be moving in the direction of reevaluating all of their previously cherished notions about the WHOLE PROCESS that they thought, not only was required, but was needed to 'become' a 'preacher boy'; a minister; a 'Pastor' ('pastor' with a capital 'P').

Questions arise: 'Was I ever a 'leader' to begin with?' They certainly thought they were; and others thought the same thing about them; yet, they did so in vain. Again, this I would hope motivate them to seek out from the Word of God what makes a leader a leader? What is a leader? There are examples from secular life that I find to paint a very good picture as to what truly constitutes and defines the meaning of the word 'leader'. We have though I think, a pretty good glimpse of the actual 'living and breathing' meaning of this word, by examining the meaning of the Greek words for "rule" [proïstēmi; but in particular hegeomai and poimainō] and the Hebrew *root word [*nagad] for the Hebrew word translated as "leader" [nagiyd].

My caution here though would be to be careful not to focus on the 'positional' aspects to the meaning of these words. But delve into the aspects that cause others to follow one who is viewed (esteemed - hegeomai) a leader, what makes him a quote "leader" in the minds of those who follow him. People though will follow men who are both worthy and unworthy to be esteemed as leaders. The worthiness and unworthiness can be somewhat subjective, depending upon what you are looking for in a leader; what is it that he is leading in.


LEADERS: THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY - AND A COMBINATION OF THEM ALL
A 'good' leader could be a pirate who is successful in his campaigns in capturing other ships without sustaining much damage in the process. His morals are reprehensible in many respects I would venture; but his skills in his line of work cannot be denied - they are very honed. What though makes him a leader as a pirate, and in command of other men; is that he possesses a heightened degree of intellect, competent confidence, adroitness, and skills borne of exercising all these over a period of time. He is a leader, because he is adapt at leading in his particular field of endeavor. And he does so having been successful navigating wisely through whatever situations and circumstances that he has placed himself in and has been placed in.

In my opinion, I consider both ship captains and wagon train 'trail-bosses' as true and excellent examples of what a leader actually is. I could develop this, but too long as it is. So I'll just say that there can be no room - there is no room for 'leaders', who are leaders in name only. When it comes to commanding either a ship on the sea or leading a long train of covered-wagons from point 'A' through points 'B' and 'C' (etc) in order to safely arrive at point 'D' (destination), novices not only 'Need Not Apply', they had better not apply - the stakes are much too great and grave to attempt to do so. No novice ought to ever attempt to take on what is beyond their abilities to handle, especially when the thing that is at stake is human life. And for a man to 'captain' a ship attempting to cross the wide and treacherous seas; or for a man act as a 'trail-master', attempting to cross the wide expanses of wild and yet uncharted country, there is no room or tolerance for error. Hence there is no room or tolerance for 'leaders' 'captains' or 'trail-bosses' in name only. That will get people killed.

Paul warned (commanded) not to ordain a novice for good reason; they cannot help but fail, they cannot, they will not 'make the grade'; they cannot perform what only experienced men can do.

So as far as the word leader goes. Those who are able, who are truly competent to 'lead', they alone own and epitomize the meaning of the word lead and leader. They do so, because they actually are able to lead; they are then leaders - not in name; but in deed.



"YE WHICH ARE SPIRITUAL,
RESTORE SUCH AN ONE IN THE SPIRIT OF MEEKNESS..."

But back to the restoration of 'leaders'.

Let us be sure to do what we can in an all out effort to restore (render aid; mend; strengthen to wholeness) a fellow, yet fallen believer and brother, to soundness...hopefully to a level of soundness they have not previously experienced before - whether they were once thought and called a 'leader'.

If it were me that was being called upon to render this kind of aid to such a fellow. I would do what I hope I am communicating here in this tread (and forum). I would comfort and encourage them to get the very most out of the process God is graciously allowing and even orchestrating, to occur in their lives at the moment. I would when appropriate, attempt to point out whatever I thought was necessary and profitable to encourage and provoke him "unto love and good works". Which would include, attempting - as Priscilla and Aquila did with Apollos and Ananias with Saul (Paul)  - to present to him, "the way of God more perfectly" (as much as I am privy to). So that when he is spiritually healthy, he will know better what the will of God is in such things as he once thought to be the right way; with respect to what Christ says and requires in his Ekklesia.

I would hope he would become a better man for the experiences he went through, and in time, be able to comfort other 'fallen' brothers and including fallen so-called 'leaders'; in the same he was comforted and enlightened about God's ways and receive the insight God has for him to gain, as to the whole process that brought him to where he is and how he got there (how it all came about) in the first place. It would be natural then on my part to expect such and one, in turn would indeed become a very great help to others. How could it not act to think, act and speak in a more realistic manner with respect to the meaning of what true leadership consists of.

[Had to go quick. No time to edit or add. Hope it makes some sense and addresses the OP.]

p.progress
« Last Edit: Tue Feb 28, 2012 - 23:59:20 by p.progress »

 

     
anything