Don't know how to copy and paste very well the quotes:
Quote from: p.progress on February 09, 2012, 02:06:25 AM
I have been following your 'tennis match' with chosenone regarding divorce and remarriage. I have appreciated your reasoning abilities in that forum. [But by the way, it is futile to continue to try to instruct; correct; train or even reprove or rebuke individuals like 'chosenone', concerning their notions about divorce, marriage and so-called 're-marriage' (legalized adultery) in that tread: "...after the first and second admonition reject...". If you want to invest any more time with her, then perhaps you might just try asking a bunch of questions first to see 'why' she believes what see believes - just a thought].
I don't need to ask her why she believes what she believes - she has already said why. And the why is precisely what i have been questioning and what I have been showing to be a false proof.
But here though Teresa, I believe you are out of your element and league at present...and frankly sister, without meaning at all to be harsh, I believe you to be out of order here as well - as far as scriptural order is concerned...and coincidentally, as is found laid out in the very sections that 'ejected' has referenced several or more times regarding the way in which the ekklesia (called out saints) are to behave in the house of God (as the household of God that we are). Please go read and study carefully and meditate on 1Cor.14...but in particular for you at the moment, what has been assigned the number of verses 34b - 36:
I am not questioning Scripture. I am questioning Ejected's presumptive authority to determine who is and who is not following God and who is and who is not worshipping according to God's prescription.
Teresa, Perhaps I was not making myself clear.
What I was referring to, when I said: "But here though Teresa, I believe you are out of your element and league at present...and frankly sister, without meaning at all to be harsh, I believe you to be out of order here as well - as far as scriptural order is concerned..."
While I realize, understand and even respect on some levels your zeal to express not only your own opinion, but as I am sure you probably view it, the divine opinion of your denomination's dogmas and decrees (or whatever terms you may choose to use to describe what you are seeking to present); I was attempting in a kind way to bring to your attention a principle that the scriptures record about how judgments, instructing, correcting, reproving and rebuking are to be administered - and more specifically and pointedly; those who are
and those who are not
to be involved in this process.
You may disagree with 'ejected' (his statements, etc) - and it is clear you very much do. But there are some scriptures that you have to take into account for yourself, before expressing the things you think (and 'feel') so passionately about.
Hence I earlier had encouraged you to examine and meditate upon some of these things which Paul wrote to the believers in Corinth about - see 1 Corinthians 14:34b-36 & 1Timothy 2:9-15, for starters. I'll quote the former here. But note: Below quotes are from KJV, interwoven with my uninspired yet thoughtful musings/explanation - in 'black']:
 "*As in all churches of the saints, let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak
[in matters that require vocally exercising discernment by the brethren to judge, correct and teach what women are not permitted to exercise]; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
 "And if they will
[desire to question the soundness of a claim made, or ask questions in order to] learn any thing
[that may have been said by those who prophesied during the assembly], let them ask
[their questions about these things to] their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak
[on and utter their thoughts openly on these matters] in the
[assembling of the] church
[which are outside their designated purview - jurisdiction; namely, to verbally join in with the brethren when raising questions and/or making corrections to certain things declared by the prophets during the exercising of this gift in the assembly]."
[*See verse 33b. Because I believe "...as in all churches of the saints" seems out of place attached to the latter end of this verse 33; and appears more naturally connected (contextually speaking) to the statements of Paul, contained in the following 'verse' (v.34); I have taken the 'liberty' of doing so. Hence, I begin v.34 with: "As in all churches of the saints...". In my opinion, this does not violate the text, but as I said, appears more natural - contextually speaking.
]: I just looked for and found a Catholic Bible version. Interesting and to the credit of the translators, they to my dismay actually do place a period (".
"), where I find the sense of this section would naturally require one for English readers. I quote it here:
 "You can all prophesy, but one at a time, then all will learn something and all receive encouragement.
 "The prophetic spirit is to be under the prophets' control,
] for God is a God not of disorder but of peace.
/34] "As in all the churches of God's holy people, women are to remain quiet in the assemblies, since they have no permission to speak: theirs is a subordinate part, as the Law itself says.
 "If there is anything they want to know, they should ask their husbands at home: it is shameful for a woman to speak in the assembly.
- I broke up 33 and 34 into '33a' and '33b/34' of course.]
 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
[Too much to comment on in this last section (last three verses), that would take me off subject in some respects; save to say, these commands are not optional; subject to time, generational or cultural change.]
I am saying then, that while I realize this is a forum, and I'm sure you would hardly consider this worthy to be considered as applicable to you, given it is NOT within your definition as a 'church' - 'The' 'Church'. Notwithstanding, as a woman I would hope you would want and seek to be mindfully careful, nevertheless, not to violate these principles and instructions to you as a women.
See also similar instructions from Paul to Timothy (1Tim. 2:9-15):"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
"But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
"For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
"And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
"Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."
You say further about 'ejected':
I would not be surprised if he is guilty of the sin he accuses everyone else of. Be careful of taking the flint from someone's eye as there might be a boulder in yours is a good advice from our Lord.
Let me put it this way, most Protestant Churches do not allow God to be head. The reason for this is that what underpins Protestant belief is relativism - private interpretation. In this sense it is not Chrsit who is head but the self. Ejected does this too. When he reads the Bible he reads it according to his own interpretation. So therefore, he is the head and Jesus come's secondary. I am sure that there [are] some things in the Bible that he ignores or sets aside because they are not comfortable - i.e. they do not jive with his own thoughts. That is not allowing Christ to be head.
Please be careful with your own assumptions here Teresa.
I do not know if you are; but if you are married with children at home Teresa, may I ask you (you need not answer if you do not want to) how it appears to me at least, you seem to have so much spare time to devote to reading and then writing so much on this forum?
I noticed you wrote your response after 3am last night...very early this morning. I know how long it takes me to write, it must take you some time as well - though I am certain you received a top notch education if you went to Catholic schools, and may be able to 'whip out' these posts in no time at all, like they were nothing, I don't know. But 3:30am (plus) is very late to be up, and all this writing can easily absorb a great deal of time - I am well aware of this. By the way, I was not being sarcastic about Catholic schools. I'm aware of the reputation of their schools being perhaps hard, or even retaining cruel and perverse educators at times; but they are also known to be fairly effective in training its students to excel. :-)
Please, do not misunderstand me, and I say this sincerely.
While I see you are very devote and a devoted adherent to your religion,*
one who seems to be clearly and thoroughly convinced that all you've been taught 'it' (Catholicism) is, teaches about and represents is true, whatever be the subject matter (both spiritually and historically); I normally would not invest my time to try to speak to such who are, as I see it, so blindly devoted to things they have yet to truly vet (examine and test to the limits its claims) for themselves. Yet, having read some of your posts, I am moved to write to you, whether prompted by the Lord or of my own.
But I want to say some things that I for some reason believe (or want to believe) you will not become offended at me when I say them.
That is to say, based upon what I have read you've written, and the attempts I sense you do make, to try to restrain yourself to be respectful of even those who you believe fail to represent the truth as you see it (flowing from Catholicism): In light of this, I don't expect you'll become offended by what I am saying...even if you think or might think I am saying this to demean or disrespect you - which I am not. I say this to your credit. I hope that I am perceiving you aright.
From my admittedly limited vantage point, it still appears to me that you have invested quite a bit of time and energy, not only writing all the posts you've written so far on this one web-site, but all the time its taken you to read all that you have on this forum.
But I am wondering if the focus of your time and energies would be better served, if directed towards and invested in those things which God calls you to as a woman, wife, mother and "keeper at home" to clearly be about the business of. Which would include getting plenty of sleep for you to be at your best to fulfill your actual responsibilities within your own life, and personal world of influence (family, friends, other women, and those you meet along the way).
I quoted 1Corinthians 14 above. May I encourage you to read it in the version of the Holy Scriptures you prefer, and see what it says in that vein. Read also other like passages which speak to woman, wives and mothers (the Timothy passage cited above, plus Titus 2; 1 Peter 3:1-6 at least (etc).
I am not saying you have no business whatsoever to express your opinions to anyone here or other places. If I said that, I would have no business, doing so. I am encouraging you though to be discreet in your zeal to express your opinions in a way that may find you in violation of the teachings of the scriptures (and perhaps, even the teaching of your religious affiliation - Catholicism).
Sorry, need to go, out of time.
God bless you Teresa.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * **
I too have very strong and deeply held convictions or beliefs, which I have come to be convinced to be the truth as revealed and laid out "in the scripture of truth"
[Dan.10:21]. So I voice them confidently, but hopefully with a level of humility and not in a way that is unjustifiably offensive, but the opposite. My purpose is to comfort, instruct, admonish, train, exhort, encourage, bring to sobriety, to warn, to reprove and rebuke if need be for the good of the person, or to mark and reject deceivers and full time self-deluded individuals, when it demands such action. I try to remain objective and dispassionate when dealing with individuals that seem not only ignorant of the things that try to speak about, but are I find even bent on being willingly ignorant.
All to say, I appreciate passion and those who display it for the things that they may even be wrong about; those who reveal they are not merely playing games with truth, in order to cover an agenda; but who at least are convinced what they believe is the truth.
I can respect for instance, a Jehovah's Witness, who though may be in error in various areas of scriptural teaching; yet are 'sincere' in their belief.
In my opinion, such are stifled in their knowledge and understanding, in great measure because they have been taught and persuaded by their leaders that what 'they
' say is (the so-called) 'truth' (on this or that subject or meaning of a passage), in fact, is
the truth. And for them, that settles the matter.
While they are not in error in certain areas of scriptural teaching, they are unaware of their error in certain other areas. They have not had the opportunity to be effectively confronted by someone who is able to filet their false notions, and help them facilitate making that 'leap' that is required of any who have had their ability to "exercise" "their senses to discern between good and evil" neutralized via the enemy within. Personal
'critiquing' is fine as far as the leadership is concerned, so long as it is to critique other people or groups, and so long as it is not aimed in their direction (or the organization/organism, and it's tenets).
To think to critique them, the organization, or the tenets of the organization, is an act of intolerable blasphemy.