Author Topic: Online Sermons used Routinely?  (Read 3346 times)

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Offline cajungirl

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Online Sermons used Routinely?
« on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 15:56:35 »
 ??? ???I am wondering about Pastors that routinely preach Sermons from Online Sermon

My Pastor preached a sermon from an Online Sermon.  I discovered this after just searching the title online and clicked on to discover this Exact Sermon online....

Even more disheartening was he followed probably about 75-80% verbatim.   I have been in this church for about 10 years and surprised about this...Perhaps I am just out of the loop but I thought sermons were derived mostly from spending time in seeking the Lord and Prayer, etc.....

I mean he might have done this but I also saw a post he posted online saying this was message God placed on his Heart, etc.... ::smile::

Anybody that can help shed light on this is Appreciated.....Thank you Cajungirl

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Online Sermons used Routinely?
« on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 15:56:35 »

Offline JohnDB

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #1 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 16:07:12 »
Oh...you just opened a can of worms that you really do not want to know the truth about.


Most preachers used "canned Sermons" or sermon helps.


Let me see if I can help you with understanding why.


Pastors regularly have two different sermons to deliver on any given Sunday as there are morning and evening services.


Then they might have a Sunday School class to teach as well.


Then on Wednesday nights or some other night they have to preach yet another completely different sermon.




Thats four sermons a week to come up with. OK...multiply that times 52 weeks a year and that is 208 sermons a year...year in and year out. Its enough to wear anyone out of ideas. Never mind all the visitations that he goes on, administrative duties, and members and elders that he has to meet with every week. (Most pastors work 50-80 hours a week)


So...often most preachers will use "sermon helps" of some sort. Either printed or online or purchased brand new at any number of stores or outlets online. Last years are sold for discounted prices...two year old really deep discounted prices and three or more years old are usually just given away for free online.


I have heard the same sermon (almost word for word) from two different pastors on the exact same day...obviously they were both using the same sermon helps. The exact same sermon given by yet another pastor on the following year on the same holiday.


Obviously they all do it.

BTW...3 of the four pastors I mentioned previously held doctorate degrees. Only one just held a seminary degree. But all four delivered the same sermon.
« Last Edit: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 16:17:16 by JohnDB »

Offline Cally

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 17:08:43 »
 ::laughinghisterically::

It's a gig--a stage show with an audience. I think sometimes it comes from the heart, but it would probably be better for some pastors to say "no sermon today" and start telling his congregation to get up and move, and act like a leader to move them toward some kind of accomplishment. Or hey, at least follow the template in the Bible, which sure doesn't say a word about "at least one sermon per week."

Dunno how that would fly with congregations though.

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #2 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 17:08:43 »

Offline cajungirl

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #3 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 17:55:04 »
Wow....I am disheartened to say the least.  I now know its a can of worms and really appreciate your reply.  I have been disturbed since yesterday's message after finding the exact sermon online and then I listened to my pastor while holding up the printed one and needless to say I am very discouraged and feel betrayed. ::pondering::

What gets me is there is no mention of this anywhere in Service referencing this! 
He should have at least mentioned this don't you think...and the to Boot he said this is
what God Put on His Heart


Also Of Concern (for sometime now)  I am questioning several things.  Of course I am not going
to do anything with this information (as of now).  But..I am interested how others feel about this practice.

Thank you for your reply and I look forward to being a Member here.  ::smile::


I will pray for this Pastor and all other Pastors to not do this routinely and Seek God for Holy Spitit Inspired Messages

Offline JohnDB

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 18:04:15 »
Some "canned sermons" are really lined out & some have really sparse outlines & really need filling in.

All dependant upon what you purchase.

The sermons that need a lot of fleshing out are better IMHO as the REAL personality & spirit of a pastor can come through.

Jesus himself only had 20 some odd sermons He told during his earthly career as a Rabbi. Of course we turn those into thousands of them today.

200 sermons per year and this going on year after year. I aint got a real issue with it.

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #4 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 18:04:15 »



Offline cajungirl

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #5 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 19:15:08 »
Perhaps some outlines are sparse..but what shocked me was that besides the Main Points even the paragraphs were recited like I said probly about 75 % or so....

I guess that why it bothers me so much Firstly is I just realized this after sitting under this Pastor and I have been very disappointed with this Church already and the constant "teaching" as opposed to doing some "preaching"  if that makes sense to you... I have always felt that I was always  in Class with outlines being "taught"  and whenever the youth minister or missionary comes...then I see the difference and really enjoy for lack of better word....and feel truly Enlightened and Moved by the Spirit..

This Online sermon thing has just solidified what I have discerned over the years....I have stayed because my husband has wanted to stay...however I am going start visiting other churches to get what I am lacking at this church.

I know this doesn't totally mean that this Pastor is a bad Pastor but I can't get around the other concerns I have regarding lack of Spirit leading, activities, etc.   

I REALLY DO NOT AGREE WITH REPEATING A SERMON WITHOUT MENTION OF IT.
and also repeating such a large percentage of it and then saying this is on heart.


Thank you for your response....

Offline cajungirl

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #6 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 19:23:35 »
Posted by: JohnDB
« on: Today at 05:04:15 PM » Insert Quote
Some "canned sermons" are really lined out & some have really sparse outlines & really need filling in.

All dependant upon what you purchase.

The sermons that need a lot of fleshing out are better IMHO as the REAL personality & spirit of a pastor can come through.

Jesus himself only had 20 some odd sermons He told during his earthly career as a Rabbi. Of course we turn those into thousands of them today.

200 sermons per year and this going on year after year. I aint got a real issue with it.

____________________________________________ ________________________

At John  ---200 sermons per year...yeah I can see the need for some  outlines,etc..but to
repeat soo much from original author...don't you think some MENTION SHOULD BE MADE ESPECIALLY WHEN THE MAJORITY OF TEXT IS REPEATED???

Just saying...cajungirl.

Offline Nevertheless

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #7 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 20:04:45 »
I agree with you both. There is nothing wrong with a preacher using sermon helps/outlines or even delivering another's sermon almost verbatim, BUT he shouldn't pass it off as his own.

Using another's work without giving the author credit is plagiarism, which is simply a form of theft. A preacher can just start his sermon by saying something like, "I found this sermon by Mr. Whoever online [or in a book] and the Lord laid it on my heart to share it with you today."

In my opinion, that is the honest way to use such resources.

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 21:28:59 »
??? ???I am wondering about Pastors that routinely preach Sermons from Online Sermon

My Pastor preached a sermon from an Online Sermon.  I discovered this after just searching the title online and clicked on to discover this Exact Sermon online....

Even more disheartening was he followed probably about 75-80% verbatim.   I have been in this church for about 10 years and surprised about this...Perhaps I am just out of the loop but I thought sermons were derived mostly from spending time in seeking the Lord and Prayer, etc.....

I mean he might have done this but I also saw a post he posted online saying this was message God placed on his Heart, etc.... ::smile::

Anybody that can help shed light on this is Appreciated.....Thank you Cajungirl
This pastor should be fired. Period.
Well, OK, taken to the woodshed.
If he does it again, he should be fired on the spot.
OK, you could give him three months severance.

There is no excuse for this behavior, I don't care how many other duties you might have. If that's what you're going to do, we should simply telelink from the local Calvary shop and get rid of you. It would save money and effort.

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #8 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 21:28:59 »

Offline cajungirl

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #9 on: Mon Jun 03, 2013 - 22:06:50 »
 ::juggle::

Hmmmm...A telelink...or what about SKYPE....  You,ve got a point.....


Yep I have learned a lot today regarding what I call Plagiarism in Pulpit.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Better Days Ahead  ::smile::

Offline JohnDB

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #10 on: Tue Jun 04, 2013 - 05:07:41 »
What I don't like about canned sermons is that they do remove a lot of the passion preachers used to have. Its made them some kind of actor on a stage.
I remember when pastors never had the rescources they have today. They made a lot of notes out of commentaries and history.  They also used anecdotes.

*sigh*

Every so often I hear a fresh sermon. It is refreshing. I wish it was more often.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #11 on: Tue Jun 04, 2013 - 17:37:30 »
What I don't like about canned sermons is that they do remove a lot of the passion preachers used to have. Its made them some kind of actor on a stage.
I remember when pastors never had the rescources they have today. They made a lot of notes out of commentaries and history.  They also used anecdotes.

*sigh*

Every so often I hear a fresh sermon. It is refreshing. I wish it was more often.
What's interesting is that if you DO bring something new to the table, it won't be new for long.  I heard my Sunday school lessons get more or less repeated in my own church on Sunday morning more than once, and from there they seemed to travel the circuit in the city.

Jarrod

Offline cajungirl

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #12 on: Wed Jun 19, 2013 - 17:09:46 »
I noticed that this subject/question has been read 176 times and only 11 replies.

I am wondering why so few have responded and/or given Feedback on this Topic ???

I mean this is a Ministers Forum and only 11 people have input regarding this??

I can only hope that Ministers who have read this will Re-Think and Make Changes in the way they Research/Deliver their Sermons if Applicable in their Pulpit.


Peace and Blessings to All,  Cajungirl

PS   I might add that on Father's Day recently I heard another sermon repeated :( in my church.

 

Offline Reverend M

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #13 on: Sat Sep 28, 2013 - 03:52:22 »
I noticed that this subject/question has been read 176 times and only 11 replies.

I am wondering why so few have responded and/or given Feedback on this Topic ???

I mean this is a Ministers Forum and only 11 people have input regarding this??

I can only hope that Ministers who have read this will Re-Think and Make Changes in the way they Research/Deliver their Sermons if Applicable in their Pulpit.


Peace and Blessings to All,  Cajungirl

PS   I might add that on Father's Day recently I heard another sermon repeated :( in my church.

 

Cajungirl, the truth is that it's really hard to say anything that hasn't already been said, the greatest minds in history have been thinking about Christianity for 2000 years! A lot of things bear repeating.

Offline gbzone

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #14 on: Wed Oct 16, 2013 - 03:31:02 »
Oh...you just opened a can of worms that you really do not want to know the truth about.


Most preachers used "canned Sermons" or sermon helps.


Let me see if I can help you with understanding why.


Pastors regularly have two different sermons to deliver on any given Sunday as there are morning and evening services.


Then they might have a Sunday School class to teach as well.


Then on Wednesday nights or some other night they have to preach yet another completely different sermon.




Thats four sermons a week to come up with. OK...multiply that times 52 weeks a year and that is 208 sermons a year...year in and year out. Its enough to wear anyone out of ideas. Never mind all the visitations that he goes on, administrative duties, and members and elders that he has to meet with every week. (Most pastors work 50-80 hours a week)


So...often most preachers will use "sermon helps" of some sort. Either printed or online or purchased brand new at any number of stores or outlets online. Last years are sold for discounted prices...two year old really deep discounted prices and three or more years old are usually just given away for free online.


I have heard the same sermon (almost word for word) from two different pastors on the exact same day...obviously they were both using the same sermon helps. The exact same sermon given by yet another pastor on the following year on the same holiday.


Obviously they all do it.

BTW...3 of the four pastors I mentioned previously held doctorate degrees. Only one just held a seminary degree. But all four delivered the same sermon.

"Man  shall  not live   by bread alone  but by every Word that  proceedeth form the mouth of God"

Its a good thing God  does not do the same .Or no man would live at all.

Your excusing   such  behaviour  also says why the church  is in the state it is in. Both by the practice and your willingness to excuse it .
A man of God  is supposed to be always  ready   to give an account  of the hope that lieth with in him but also  to meditate on the Word day and night  etc (Joshua)
The scriptures are an inexhaustible fountain   of truth  that needs to be drunk from every day.
The man deludes himself  if he thinks God is  giving his  sheep dead meat  or stale bread  of another mans sermons .
For did not  God give them daily bread from heaven?  That is to say  FRESH .
Did not Jesus  say  he was the true bread   of heaven?
Is HE dead?  or stale in some way? Are we not supposed to "preach Christ"?

There are only two courses open to the OP.

Either   go privately  to the pastor  and tell him what you have found and see if he will not change his ways .
Or  leave the church and go and find   one where fresh bread   is preached .

In Christ

gerald

Offline gbzone

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #15 on: Wed Oct 16, 2013 - 03:38:48 »
I noticed that this subject/question has been read 176 times and only 11 replies.

I am wondering why so few have responded and/or given Feedback on this Topic ???

I mean this is a Ministers Forum and only 11 people have input regarding this??

I can only hope that Ministers who have read this will Re-Think and Make Changes in the way they Research/Deliver their Sermons if Applicable in their Pulpit.


Peace and Blessings to All,  Cajungirl

PS   I might add that on Father's Day recently I heard another sermon repeated :( in my church.

 

Cajungirl, the truth is that it's really hard to say anything that hasn't already been said, the greatest minds in history have been thinking about Christianity for 2000 years! A lot of things bear repeating.

There is a world of difference  between  repeating  something  and regurgitating anothers  message .

I heard of one man of |God who has preached  on John 3:16  for a year and still had not exhausted it .
I know of another  who preached on Hebrews 1:1 and after 90 mins  had only got so far as  "GOD",
and it still  rings in my ears and burns  in my heart and that was over 15 years ago .

Now tell me  .If  a man  is not heard   or understood  unless  he gives his breath or life to it .
How much  less is God whos words  proceeds from His mouth?

Did not Jesus   say  "The words that I speak  are not my words  but the  Father  who si in me he doeth the work"?

How then  can you speak the Word of God  if the Spirit  of God   is  not  in evidence?

I don't think the OP is speaking about repeating a thing . But simply  cheating at  an exam.

in Christ

gerald

Offline Reverend M

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #16 on: Thu Oct 17, 2013 - 07:09:19 »
Okay, Gerald, when you work at a day job, prepare the Sunday school lessons and the music for Sunday, buy the communion wine and the coffee and doughnuts for the fellowship after the service, do your hospital and home visitations, take communion to the nursing home AND do the sermon prep without commuting some the the blaspheme we see on this forum regularly, then you can show us all how it's done. I'll wait.

Offline Cally

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #17 on: Thu Oct 17, 2013 - 07:42:29 »
Okay, Gerald, when you work at a day job, prepare the Sunday school lessons and the music for Sunday, buy the communion wine and the coffee and doughnuts for the fellowship after the service, do your hospital and home visitations, take communion to the nursing home AND do the sermon prep without commuting some the the blaspheme we see on this forum regularly, then you can show us all how it's done. I'll wait.

The point is just getting up and saying something halfway sincerely . . . which I suppose is possible even if you're using someone else's words.

But come on, if the job description says you have to come up with your own spiel every week for your paycheck, then that's what you have to do--or renegotiate the contract.

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #18 on: Thu Oct 17, 2013 - 07:44:57 »
without commuting some the the blaspheme we see on this forum regularly,

Whoa!  Now THATS a *big* accusation!!!

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #19 on: Thu Oct 17, 2013 - 11:46:41 »
Okay, Gerald, when you work at a day job, prepare the Sunday school lessons and the music for Sunday, buy the communion wine and the coffee and doughnuts for the fellowship after the service, do your hospital and home visitations, take communion to the nursing home AND do the sermon prep without commuting some the the blaspheme we see on this forum regularly, then you can show us all how it's done. I'll wait.

The point is just getting up and saying something halfway sincerely . . . which I suppose is possible even if you're using someone else's words.

But come on, if the job description says you have to come up with your own spiel every week for your paycheck, then that's what you have to do--or renegotiate the contract.

I don't have a job description, I have duties I perform as part of my calling. The preaching is actually a very small part of it, a typical sermon for me will be 5-10 minutes, while the service will typically go over an hour. The rest of the time we are either praying or reciting scripture, and there will be communion every feast day, which includes Sundays. So we pray, read scripture, sing, and communicate with The Lord. By contrast, the typical Protestant service will be one hour with 30 minutes of rock concert, 25 minutes of preaching, and they might throw in some scripture during the sermon.

The preaching part just isn't that important compared to spending time with God and taking care of widows and orphans.

Offline JohnDB

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #20 on: Thu Oct 17, 2013 - 15:54:14 »
Today's preacher has to have a bunch of sermons in his back pocket when he accepts a pulpit.


Jesus didn't have as many as today's congregations demand.


(now granted one of Jesus' sermons will sprout several thousand sermons from each sentence)


Jesus only gave out a couple of dozen different sermons...like the sermon on the mount.




And if people would quit committing the same sins they might get to hear some new sermons...but as it is they still haven't listened to the old ones yet as they still keep committing last years sins.

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #21 on: Thu Oct 17, 2013 - 16:04:13 »
Today's preacher has to have a bunch of sermons in his back pocket when he accepts a pulpit.


Jesus didn't have as many as today's congregations demand.


(now granted one of Jesus' sermons will sprout several thousand sermons from each sentence)


Jesus only gave out a couple of dozen different sermons...like the sermon on the mount.




And if people would quit committing the same sins they might get to hear some new sermons...but as it is they still haven't listened to the old ones yet as they still keep committing last years sins.
Cute, but John tells us that all of what Jesus said and did wouldn't fit into all the books available. Could be that He only had a handful of sermons and John was thinking of oodles more of miracles and no more sermons.

Offline Reverend M

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #22 on: Fri Oct 18, 2013 - 04:16:10 »
without commuting some the the blaspheme we see on this forum regularly,

Whoa!  Now THATS a *big* accusation!!!

I guess it depends on what your definition of blaspheme is. If you believe to speak blaspheme is to "speak irreverently of God or sacred things", there is plenty of it here. Some people's sacred things are other people's doormats, it seems.

Offline gbzone

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #23 on: Thu Oct 31, 2013 - 13:25:11 »
Okay, Gerald, when you work at a day job, prepare the Sunday school lessons and the music for Sunday, buy the communion wine and the coffee and doughnuts for the fellowship after the service, do your hospital and home visitations, take communion to the nursing home AND do the sermon prep without commuting some the the blaspheme we see on this forum regularly, then you can show us all how it's done. I'll wait.

"Man  shall not live   bread  alone  but by every Word that proceedeth from the mouth of God"

Is not the preaching of Gods  Word then the most important and critical thing then?
The Manna   that fell  from heaven was not last weeks but was fresh every day .Twice  fell  on the day before  the Sabbath.
Jesus  said I am the true bread   of heaven........ I  never found Jesus  'stale' or preaching  another mans  sermon. Or even   the last weeks . Though  I am sure he repeated the message  many times  perhaps . It was always  fresh and never the same as it was presented  before.

I accused no one .It is the devil who is the accuser of the bretheren .Why then should I ? Jesus  never did .Though he did rebuke  some and  sometimes  very strongly.

Jesus  said  "the words that I speak  are not my own words . (Nor were they another mans .) But the  father  who is in me He doeth the work"
and  in another place he said  I speak  only what the father  said or taught me .That which he was given  he gave.

In another  place of scripture  it says  " we will have to give  an account of every idle  word ...."
What  is an idle word then?

If not  a word  that does  no work.

The words  of Jesus   always  did a work  did they not? Why Because  it was the father who was in Him who did it .
Did he not say  I came to do my fathers will?

If the father  was  in Him is it not  Christ  who is  in us if we are his?  "Christ   in you  the hope of glory"
How then can any work of God be done  when  another mans words are used?
With all due respect   is that  not a lot different  than  a parrot?

You mention a lot of labours. Tell me what is the most important job of a minister?  If it is not what the scriptures in Ephesians say it is ?

The perfection of the Bride  till we all come to a unity of the faith.
faith comes by hearing  and understanding the Word of God.

Now if a man is neither heard or understood   unless he gives his  life or breath to his words .

How much the more then the Word of God?

If then  the message we preach is  another mans  words  then those words are dead  there is no life in it .
Moreover   is it not written   that the LETTER killeth   and the  Spirit giveth life ?

Did  not Jesus  say  His words wee Spirit and life .

In another place they recognised "he spoke with  authority" and not like the elders.

All they spoke   was the letter some other mans words and interpretations   of the law .

Jesus  was anointed by the Spirit   to PREACH  and it says it many timed.
You cannot open the eyes  of the blind  without  the Spirit  of God  inspiring   and  enlightening to you   the understanding of scripture  that then flows out of you  in your words to others  so that " the eyes   of their understanding may be opened as well.
How else  can we all come to a unity of the faith  unless there is also  a unity of understanding also.

So in answer to  your list  of jobs that hinders you is two fold.

Get others to do the  jobs  that you don't need to for it is   needed to prepare  for the  next time of preaching.
Though perhaps  we should always be ready .

and if there is no one  .Then perhaps  the reason is your method   or sources of your messages  .

in Christ

gerald

Offline gbzone

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #24 on: Thu Oct 31, 2013 - 13:27:58 »
Okay, Gerald, when you work at a day job, prepare the Sunday school lessons and the music for Sunday, buy the communion wine and the coffee and doughnuts for the fellowship after the service, do your hospital and home visitations, take communion to the nursing home AND do the sermon prep without commuting some the the blaspheme we see on this forum regularly, then you can show us all how it's done. I'll wait.

The point is just getting up and saying something halfway sincerely . . . which I suppose is possible even if you're using someone else's words.

But come on, if the job description says you have to come up with your own spiel every week for your paycheck, then that's what you have to do--or renegotiate the contract.

I don't have a job description, I have duties I perform as part of my calling. The preaching is actually a very small part of it, a typical sermon for me will be 5-10 minutes, while the service will typically go over an hour. The rest of the time we are either praying or reciting scripture, and there will be communion every feast day, which includes Sundays. So we pray, read scripture, sing, and communicate with The Lord. By contrast, the typical Protestant service will be one hour with 30 minutes of rock concert, 25 minutes of preaching, and they might throw in some scripture during the sermon.

The preaching part just isn't that important compared to spending time with God and taking care of widows and orphans.

I would  suggest  that  5 or 10  minutes once a week will never  feed a spiritual babe  let alone a young man  or father .

Offline gbzone

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #25 on: Thu Oct 31, 2013 - 13:31:44 »
without commuting some the the blaspheme we see on this forum regularly,

Whoa!  Now THATS a *big* accusation!!!

But often true .

and when it is  not blaspheme  it is like the serpent  or Peter  who once  became  the mouth piece  of Satan.

For  there are far too many questions  on this site  that are of the  "yea hath God said ................" variety  and as full of subtlety and deceit as the first one.

Nor does this  website  help matters  . For where as scriptures says give no place to the devil  .It has given  space to all sorts of mischief  and works of the devil   in any number of its 'forums'

in Christ

gerald

Online DaveW

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #26 on: Thu Oct 31, 2013 - 13:45:02 »
"Man  shall not live   bread  alone  but by every Word that proceedeth from the mouth of God"

Is not the preaching of Gods  Word then the most important and critical thing then?

Huh??  Preaching  comes from OUR mouth, not God's.

God can and does speak for Himself.

Offline bro jerry

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #27 on: Sat Nov 02, 2013 - 19:42:18 »
i have yet to ever get a message  on line to preach.  i wait  for the Lord to show me the message..  i might get material on line and use it. but the message i preach  Comes from the throne of Grace..not the internet 

Offline Reverend M

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #28 on: Mon Nov 04, 2013 - 04:21:42 »
Okay, Gerald, when you work at a day job, prepare the Sunday school lessons and the music for Sunday, buy the communion wine and the coffee and doughnuts for the fellowship after the service, do your hospital and home visitations, take communion to the nursing home AND do the sermon prep without commuting some the the blaspheme we see on this forum regularly, then you can show us all how it's done. I'll wait.

"Man  shall not live   bread  alone  but by every Word that proceedeth from the mouth of God"

Is not the preaching of Gods  Word then the most important and critical thing then?
The Manna   that fell  from heaven was not last weeks but was fresh every day .Twice  fell  on the day before  the Sabbath.
Jesus  said I am the true bread   of heaven........ I  never found Jesus  'stale' or preaching  another mans  sermon. Or even   the last weeks . Though  I am sure he repeated the message  many times  perhaps . It was always  fresh and never the same as it was presented  before.

I accused no one .It is the devil who is the accuser of the bretheren .Why then should I ? Jesus  never did .Though he did rebuke  some and  sometimes  very strongly.

Jesus  said  "the words that I speak  are not my own words . (Nor were they another mans .) But the  father  who is in me He doeth the work"
and  in another place he said  I speak  only what the father  said or taught me .That which he was given  he gave.

In another  place of scripture  it says  " we will have to give  an account of every idle  word ...."
What  is an idle word then?

If not  a word  that does  no work.

The words  of Jesus   always  did a work  did they not? Why Because  it was the father who was in Him who did it .
Did he not say  I came to do my fathers will?

If the father  was  in Him is it not  Christ  who is  in us if we are his?  "Christ   in you  the hope of glory"
How then can any work of God be done  when  another mans words are used?
With all due respect   is that  not a lot different  than  a parrot?

You mention a lot of labours. Tell me what is the most important job of a minister?  If it is not what the scriptures in Ephesians say it is ?

The perfection of the Bride  till we all come to a unity of the faith.
faith comes by hearing  and understanding the Word of God.

Now if a man is neither heard or understood   unless he gives his  life or breath to his words .

How much the more then the Word of God?

If then  the message we preach is  another mans  words  then those words are dead  there is no life in it .
Moreover   is it not written   that the LETTER killeth   and the  Spirit giveth life ?

Did  not Jesus  say  His words wee Spirit and life .

In another place they recognised "he spoke with  authority" and not like the elders.

All they spoke   was the letter some other mans words and interpretations   of the law .

Jesus  was anointed by the Spirit   to PREACH  and it says it many timed.
You cannot open the eyes  of the blind  without  the Spirit  of God  inspiring   and  enlightening to you   the understanding of scripture  that then flows out of you  in your words to others  so that " the eyes   of their understanding may be opened as well.
How else  can we all come to a unity of the faith  unless there is also  a unity of understanding also.

So in answer to  your list  of jobs that hinders you is two fold.

Get others to do the  jobs  that you don't need to for it is   needed to prepare  for the  next time of preaching.
Though perhaps  we should always be ready .

and if there is no one  .Then perhaps  the reason is your method   or sources of your messages  .

in Christ

gerald

All right, these seem like honest questions.

Quote
Is not the preaching of Gods  Word then the most important and critical thing then?

You hear a lot of Protestants (and whatever you call yourselves) talk about the "priesthood of the laity". They apparently believe that this negates MY job, which is to assist the Bishop in administering the sacraments and to serve God at His altar. This is what I do. The congregation is then sent forth to go and preach the Gospel. Some of them apparently think this gives them infallibility, and they think that whatever the voices in their heads tells them is the Gospel truth, when the reality is that you can only have infallibility if you teach what the church of all believers has always believed. (and don't tell me you don't need the Church, to reject the Church is to reject ourselves.)  Not everybody teaches what the Church has always believed. In fact, hardly anybody does that, they make it up as they go along. A lot of what I see the neo-Protestants posting is just "thank God we are not like them" (Luke 18:11) and they are usually talking about the RCC. That is not the Gospel. Neither is railing on about homosexuality or the evils of being in another denomination.

I am not Billy Graham, I am not preaching to millions of unchurched souls who have never heard the Gospel, I am preaching to people who have heard the Gospel, we read it straight from the scriptures every Sunday. I am going to tell you something you probably haven't heard, the story behind the story, or something someone a lot smarter than I am thought of this reading. When I am standing in the pulpit I am not speaking for myself, and my words better be right, there are eternal consequences for leading people astray. So I look at what the church has always taught, some of it is on the internet, some of it is not. There are scores of books no longer in print commenting on the Gospel, I have some of them, but not all of them. But I don't use canned sermons, I find them shallow and unenlightening. But I rarely tell the people what the voices in MY head say, because there are competing voices. I read you the Gospel, then I tell you what it said.

Quote
In another  place of scripture  it says  " we will have to give  an account of every idle  word ...."
What  is an idle word then?

The words people post here are idle words, there are people all over the world who see this. Some take it as the truth. If you are going to claim to speak for God, it had better be the truth, every soul that turns from Him because of a word written here will be on our heads.

Quote
If then  the message we preach is  another mans  words  then those words are dead  there is no life in it .

Are you trying to tell me that no one has greater insight or knowledge than you do? Who taught you? Did they know more than you do, or less? I'll tell you one thing: I am immediately suspicious when someone tells me that God or the Holy Spirit told them to do or say something, the guy who killed John Lennon made the same claim. If you are going to make that claim then your words have to comport with what believers have always believed, everywhere.

Quote
Jesus  was anointed by the Spirit   to PREACH  and it says it many timed.

Jesus was GOD.

Quote
So in answer to  your list  of jobs that hinders you is two fold.

Get others to do the  jobs  that you don't need to for it is   needed to prepare  for the  next time of preaching.
Though perhaps  we should always be ready .

I do these jobs because they are MY jobs, I am not at liberty to assign tasks to others, the Bishop does that. And any time anybody wants to take the music ministry away from me they are welcome to do so, but I do it because I am an accomplished musician, among other things, which brings me to another point:  people sometimes speak of spiritual gifts, I am not a gifted musician, I spent years learning how to do this. You can't come to me with no training and say you will take my place if you haven't put the time into it. In other words, study to show yourself approved, in this thing, in all things.



« Last Edit: Mon Nov 04, 2013 - 05:48:45 by Reverend M »

Offline Reverend M

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #29 on: Mon Nov 04, 2013 - 04:24:09 »
Okay, Gerald, when you work at a day job, prepare the Sunday school lessons and the music for Sunday, buy the communion wine and the coffee and doughnuts for the fellowship after the service, do your hospital and home visitations, take communion to the nursing home AND do the sermon prep without commuting some the the blaspheme we see on this forum regularly, then you can show us all how it's done. I'll wait.

The point is just getting up and saying something halfway sincerely . . . which I suppose is possible even if you're using someone else's words.

But come on, if the job description says you have to come up with your own spiel every week for your paycheck, then that's what you have to do--or renegotiate the contract.

I don't have a job description, I have duties I perform as part of my calling. The preaching is actually a very small part of it, a typical sermon for me will be 5-10 minutes, while the service will typically go over an hour. The rest of the time we are either praying or reciting scripture, and there will be communion every feast day, which includes Sundays. So we pray, read scripture, sing, and communicate with The Lord. By contrast, the typical Protestant service will be one hour with 30 minutes of rock concert, 25 minutes of preaching, and they might throw in some scripture during the sermon.

The preaching part just isn't that important compared to spending time with God and taking care of widows and orphans.

I would  suggest  that  5 or 10  minutes once a week will never  feed a spiritual babe  let alone a young man  or father .

10 minutes of solid food is more effective than 30 minutes of empty calories, you simply must choose your words carefully.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #30 on: Tue Nov 05, 2013 - 00:10:42 »
Today's preacher has to have a bunch of sermons in his back pocket when he accepts a pulpit.


Jesus didn't have as many as today's congregations demand.


(now granted one of Jesus' sermons will sprout several thousand sermons from each sentence)


Jesus only gave out a couple of dozen different sermons...like the sermon on the mount.




And if people would quit committing the same sins they might get to hear some new sermons...but as it is they still haven't listened to the old ones yet as they still keep committing last years sins.
Cute, but John tells us that all of what Jesus said and did wouldn't fit into all the books available. Could be that He only had a handful of sermons and John was thinking of oodles more of miracles and no more sermons.
Or maybe they just didn't have that many books.  I mean think how rare and costly books were back then.  No printing presses.  ::eek::

Offline gbzone

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Re: Online Sermons used Routinely?
« Reply #31 on: Sun Nov 10, 2013 - 22:10:18 »
"Man  shall not live   bread  alone  but by every Word that proceedeth from the mouth of God"

Is not the preaching of Gods  Word then the most important and critical thing then?

Huh??  Preaching  comes from OUR mouth, not God's.

God can and does speak for Himself.


Are we not to be made   conformable to Christ?

What then of the Lord?

The words that I speak   are not my own words   but the words of Him that sent me.

What the father  taught me   so I teach or speak.

is it not also written  That is the father  who is IN me   he doeth the work?

As I said before   if a man is not heard or understood unless  he gives  his breath or life to them .

How much  less  the Word of God?

are we not called to be filled with the Spirit  of God?

And is not the Word of God   the seed?   and is bread  to the hungry  and seed to the sower?

and what then shall we liken   the kingdom of  God?  But as a man who went out to sow?

Then  I say    when God saw the cry of his people   and said  I will deliver them .Did he not send Moses?

How is it then you say   God will do the speaking?
are we not called to be co-workers with God?

if then   you say God will do the speaking  why then do you speak?

Is it not   then to  give the what you have been given?

and what you have learnt and been taught  to then freely give and teach others\?

Did not Jesus   say  "As the Father  sent me  so send I you"?

are we hirelings  or shepherds of the flock of God.?

in Christ

gerald