Author Topic: The American church  (Read 1909 times)

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Offline OldDad

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The American church
« on: Mon Apr 27, 2009 - 09:29:44 »
Every time I read Larry Osborne's books and blog, I am challenged on something I thought I had previously figured out.  Today is no exception.

It’s fashionable to decry the current state of Christianity in America.

But frankly, I don’t buy it.

Some of the most popular conference speakers on the circuit today excel at drive-by-guiltings. They paint a picture of a church that lacks guts, cowers from dying to self, and lives out a self-satisfied, what’s-in-it-for-me Christianity.

In most cases, I like these speakers. They are good guys. I respect them. But I just don’t agree on this issue.

I’ve noticed that their audience is usually a room full of charge-the-hill-type young leaders who eat it up and then return home to look with disdain upon other churches, pastors, leaders, and often their own congregation (oblivious to how much they have in common with the self-congratulatory zealot in Luke 11: 9-14).

Now don’t get me wrong, I’ll agree that we have lots of carnality and self-centered living in our churches today. But come on, that’s nothing new. It’s been like that from the beginning. It’s simply not accurate to paint a heroic picture of the early church without also pointing out its many failures. In reality, the early church was pretty messed up, about as messed up as the American Church.

Have we forgotten...

to read the rest of this post go to Why I'm PUMPED about the future of the American church

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The American church
« on: Mon Apr 27, 2009 - 09:29:44 »

Offline apokalupsis

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Re: The American church
« Reply #1 on: Mon Apr 27, 2009 - 17:10:38 »
Hey OldDad, thanks for this post.  I just got back from a conference this year and a young speaker just ripped and ripped congregations and churches.  A lot of the criticism from him (in my opinion) seemed trivial, like the Christian t-shirts we wear.

It sounded all self-important, but I found myself kinda shaking my head wishing that he would have prepared a sermon that dug out some deep spiritual truths from Scripture instead of just telling us how bad a job churches are doing.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm dismayed at the lack of depth our seminary grads are getting in deep spiritual truths, and the lack of work ethic by so many young ministers. 

They're plenty arrogant, but they don't work their butts off enough. lol

(I'm certainly getting old)

Offline Brasee

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Re: The American church
« Reply #2 on: Tue Jun 23, 2009 - 17:07:33 »
Yay! This is kind of exactly what I think. I run into doom-and-gloom types and I tell them, "Have you forgotten that we are INVINCIBLE, at least in the long run, since God is with us?". There is so much brightness that I have seen in the Church, and I do not like the guiltings! Being consumed with guilt is not a sign of conscience. I for one will not apologize for Christianity's contributions and the way we've changed the world!

(I have been reading good books on the subject, like "How The Catholic Church Built Western Civilization", "Christianity On Trial", and "How Christianity Changed The World"...well, I want to read the third one).

::reads the link you posted::

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Re: The American church
« Reply #2 on: Tue Jun 23, 2009 - 17:07:33 »

Offline Christian Commando

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Re: The American church
« Reply #3 on: Sun Jun 28, 2009 - 02:13:23 »
Hi Pastors- I'm also one.

I suggest there is plenty we need to work on in the church- (Body of Christ) for faults, as we need to celebrate for God's working thru us as well.

there is no reason why God can't bring Ministers around at specific times to point out such things to help us be reminded theres still work of improving our own witness of Christ to the world, individually as well as with Churches.

Are we so comfortable with where we are at as a "Body of Christ", we have already forgotten what Jesus pointed out to each of those 7 Churches and what needed to be changed in each of them?

Those were "Letters" written to those Churches dictated by Christ, to John. And its believed, those "Letters" also compare to specific time frames thruout the existance of Christianity.

To look at what Jesus retorted to the Church of the "Laodiceans", consider how what Jesus wrote of correction to them, relates to the "Church" today.

As an Evangelistic Minister myself, I've come across many a Church in my travels who are quite comfortable where they are at living well in thier luxuries, not wanting to step out of thier "comfort zone", to spread out serving God even more as God would have them.

I would suggest, if we look back thru Christian history, we'd find, God brought about particular people at diverse times, to speak out about certain "lackings" that were in the church as time went on.

but, most people took them wrong, or others who listened and paid attention to them, eventually grew in numbers, then people turned what was brought out, into a "religion".

Why is it so many Christian Leaders only want to speak out on or hear only "good" about the "Church" and not about the "wrongs" of the "Church"? Are they so afraid as many Leaders have told me, of the trouble they'd have from HQ if they spoke the Truth of needs for change, that might anger members or scare visitors, so either one would leave and thier monetary input would lower?

Where is the true Godly Leading of the "Church", when Ministers only want to speak what will "tickle" a Congregations ears- (Please them), and not speak correction for the "Church" when necessary?

Larry spoke of all the problems the "Early Church" had in thier Churches. Of course. They were new converts with young Ministers as thier first Leaders and Deacons as young sub-leaders also. Look at what Paul declared-

He had to speak unto them, as tho "babe's in Christ, because they were yet unable to understand deeper things.

Yet... as a whole- (majority), look at the average years Children of God in the main "Body" have belonged to God, yet we are still to a considerable degree, like new converts, not having grown in God from "milk Drinkers" into "Meat Eaters" as we should've by now.

So then, rather than teach young Ministers to speak the "Truth", good and bad as needed for edification and or correction, now this older generation wants to hear only "good", no correction.

Jesus spoke of both edification and correction in His "Letters" to those churches. Should we not then too, be examples ourselves to do both as examples to young Ministers and not be afraid to speak Truth when necessary for correction also?

Its a good thing God has brought out some young Ministers willing to boldly speak of corrections needed, for as God declares, many in the "Body" have fallen asleep- (gotten lazy and liberal, doing little if any service for God, outside of in thier church alone).

I've come across way too many True christian Families, who quit Churches, because for all they've attended, they were never "fed by God" in the sermons. It had nothing to do with  hearing the worst, but always just hearing "good" all the time, as tho everything is "rosey", when those visitors found fault in the churches from the start.

Basically, many of them are ignoring the "wrongs" in thier churches, just to preach only uplifting and edifying messages with no true Holy Spirit driven messages being shared.

You know, when God speaks in His Word of the "gathering together of the Saints" its not just for uplifting and edification and praise and worship of God, but also for correction, as Paul clearly denotes to the Corinth Church and people of problems they let stay in the church, promoting wrongs.

Theres a "Balance of God" we, as Leaders, need to apply, so that both good and evil things are pointed out for blessing and correction.

A close friend of mine, saw he had to bring his eldest son home again, after a second failed atempt at living on his own. He told his Dad this-

"I look back now, and wish you had been more strict about boundaries and lessons taught me when younger, so I'd have been more prepared for what I can't handle now, on my own."

And many of people who quit going to church, share nearly identical things as reasons for leaving Churches or not finding a good one to stay at.

Think about this Pastors-

God Bless!!

Offline Victorious

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Re: The American church
« Reply #4 on: Fri Oct 02, 2009 - 20:37:51 »
So true.  Unfortunately, Laodecean comes to mind. 

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Re: The American church
« Reply #4 on: Fri Oct 02, 2009 - 20:37:51 »