Author Topic: Replacing Max Lucado  (Read 24936 times)

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Offline jb728b

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #35 on: Fri Jul 18, 2008 - 13:50:41 »
 ::eek:: Now I'm confused.  Reformed huh?

Oh and if some of his children left his house and the church yes, that would definatly bring up the question of his ruling.

And i never said if a child leaves the father must step down.

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #35 on: Fri Jul 18, 2008 - 13:50:41 »

Offline zoonance

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #36 on: Fri Jul 18, 2008 - 15:25:25 »
::eek:: Now I'm confused.  Reformed huh?

Oh and if some of his children left his house and the church yes, that would definatly bring up the question of his ruling.

And i never said if a child leaves the father must step down.


I said that .  My attempt at humorous satire.   

Offline zoonance

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #37 on: Fri Jul 18, 2008 - 15:26:12 »
One of the qualifications for elder/pastor is to 'rule his own house'. if a child is no longer 'in his house' then the elder is not responsible for the choices that child makes.

Au contrair mi Capitan!  If you had an elder who had four children, and three of those children "left the faith" shortly after leaving the house, would you conclude anything about said elder?

According to reformed theology, they just weren't among the elect.  They were predestined to reprobation.  No fault can be ascribed to the elder.

Jb728b is not reformed, so why does that have anything to do with this discussion?

I understood that you were.  If not then ignore the post.

It is a large part of my background, so I understand it.  However, I am not reformed.



Have you seen the Reformed Barbie?

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #37 on: Fri Jul 18, 2008 - 15:26:12 »

Offline Mere Nick

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #38 on: Mon Jul 21, 2008 - 23:18:26 »
Most preachers I have heard of, CofC or otherwise are responsible for doing more than preaching and teaching.  They end up doing a lot of the work of an elder and a lot of these elders sit on their fannies and expect the "hireling" to do it all.

I believe the following is the work of an elder:

Preach the word: 1 Timothy 4:1-2
Reprove, rebuke, exhort 2 Timothy 4:1, 2
Preach under all conditions 2 Timothy 4:2


Are you suggesting there are some who look for plausible deniability?  Who woulda thunk it?

Offline memmy

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #39 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 07:09:13 »
Quote
Have you seen the Reformed Barbie?

I sure hope that she is shaped more life like.  ::smile::

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #39 on: Mon Jul 28, 2008 - 07:09:13 »



Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #40 on: Sat Aug 02, 2008 - 10:41:30 »
Quote
Have you seen the Reformed Barbie?

I sure hope that she is shaped more life like.  ::smile::

I thought 36-24-36 with DD's WAS lifelike.   rofl

Offline Weeble

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #41 on: Sun Aug 03, 2008 - 13:30:54 »
36-24-36 is a Brickhouse!

Offline stevehut

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #42 on: Mon Sep 08, 2008 - 11:33:29 »
A reference for a good way to replace someone is through a transition such as Southeast Christian Church in Louisville, KY.  It was a lengthy, multi-year transitions with a gradual increase/decrease in duties. 


Bob Russell is a very smart guy in this regard.   ::nodding::

Offline ollie

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #43 on: Thu Sep 11, 2008 - 22:09:46 »
BCV to support a "pulpit preacher" as we know it will be difficult if not impossible, since the early church as described in the NT had no such.  There were visiting "planters" as
Tim and Titus and Paul, etc, but NO resident preacher.
Amen.

ollie

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #43 on: Thu Sep 11, 2008 - 22:09:46 »

HRoberson

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #44 on: Thu Sep 11, 2008 - 22:12:18 »
BCV to support a "pulpit preacher" as we know it will be difficult if not impossible, since the early church as described in the NT had no such.  There were visiting "planters" as
Tim and Titus and Paul, etc, but NO resident preacher.
Amen.

ollie
Not that I'm one to defend pulpit preachers or our overly expensive pastoral system, but it does seem that Paul settled down for a few years in a couple places - not counting his prison time in Rome.

Offline ollie

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #45 on: Thu Sep 11, 2008 - 22:28:11 »
This frees the preacher to do his job.

Then what is his job?
They are sent to preach/teach among the heathen.

Romans 10:13.  "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 14.  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
 15.  And how shall they preach, except they be sent?
as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"


How is this fulfilled with congregational live in preachers? We so misuse the gift of preaching by using them as administrators and preaching/teaching to the saved. When the congregation should be overseen spiritually by the elder men qualified to be bishops. Administration of physical/natural needs should be the deacon's responsibility. We are very not scriptural when it comes to the work of the preacher/evangelist.

ollie


Offline ollie

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #46 on: Thu Sep 11, 2008 - 22:32:21 »
BCV to support a "pulpit preacher" as we know it will be difficult if not impossible, since the early church as described in the NT had no such.  There were visiting "planters" as
Tim and Titus and Paul, etc, but NO resident preacher.
Amen.

ollie
Not that I'm one to defend pulpit preachers or our overly expensive pastoral system, but it does seem that Paul settled down for a few years in a couple places - not counting his prison time in Rome.
Was Paul in the pulpit of these places every Sunday preaching to the choir?

ollie

HRoberson

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #47 on: Thu Sep 11, 2008 - 22:39:10 »
BCV to support a "pulpit preacher" as we know it will be difficult if not impossible, since the early church as described in the NT had no such.  There were visiting "planters" as
Tim and Titus and Paul, etc, but NO resident preacher.
Amen.

ollie
Not that I'm one to defend pulpit preachers or our overly expensive pastoral system, but it does seem that Paul settled down for a few years in a couple places - not counting his prison time in Rome.
Was Paul in the pulpit of these places every Sunday preaching to the choir?

ollie
Seems like he said he reasoned with them......and taught them..........so yeah, I guess he was. Except that Jewish rabbis would have sat rather than stand. ;)

Of course he also apparently had a day job so that he wouldn't be a burden on the locals.

Offline Jimbob

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #48 on: Fri Sep 12, 2008 - 05:32:01 »
Most preachers I have heard of, CofC or otherwise are responsible for doing more than preaching and teaching.  They end up doing a lot of the work of an elder and a lot of these elders sit on their fannies and expect the "hireling" to do it all.
::nodding::

Quote
I believe the following is the work of an elder:

Preach the word: 1 Timothy 4:1-2
Reprove, rebuke, exhort 2 Timothy 4:1, 2
Preach under all conditions 2 Timothy 4:2

In context, Paul is calling these these "the work of an evangelist."  Though I agree, elders are to be "pastoring teachers" (imho, a more accurate reading of Eph 4 is "pastoring teachers" instead of "pastors and teachers").

Offline stevehut

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #49 on: Mon Sep 15, 2008 - 08:41:01 »
They are sent to preach/teach among the heathen.

Romans 10:13.  "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

I don't understand.   ???  Isn't this the task of every Christian?

And Romans 13 doesn't seem to be in the context of leadership; it simply gives a general principle...no?

Offline stevehut

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #50 on: Fri Oct 24, 2008 - 07:59:45 »
Hellooo??  Is this thing on??   ???

Offline stevehut

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #51 on: Mon Jul 19, 2010 - 15:04:14 »
In my church I hold no title of any kind, and I'm not on the payroll.  But sometimes I get called on to teach, wash windows, preach, sweep the parking lot, baptize, clean toilets, vacuum the sanctuary, and counsel people.  What does that make me?   ::lookaround::

I think we all should be humble enough to admit that we have institutionalized traditions that are neither good or bad.  Anyone out there got BCV for a pulpit?  A microphone?  An indoor baptistery?  

Down the street here we have a COC where they believe it's a sin to have a kitchen in the building, because the NT doesn't authorize it.  But if that's the case, they should look a bit closer: There's something else the NT doesn't authorize -- A building!  I don't understand how one is OK and the other isn't.

Since Jesus told us we should remember him regularly in the Eucharist, isn't it reasonable that we have a place to prepare it??  ::noworries::

Offline stevehut

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #52 on: Mon Jul 19, 2010 - 15:09:00 »
If Paul is giving a rigid list here of qualifications, then he himself may not be qualified

You don't suppose that a divinely ordained apostle outranks an elder?

Offline davidmac

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #53 on: Tue Jul 20, 2010 - 13:18:54 »
Quote
I think we all should be humble enough to admit that we have institutionalized traditions that are neither good or bad.  Anyone out there got BCV for a pulpit?  A microphone?  An indoor baptistery? 

Down the street here we have a COC where they believe it's a sin to have a kitchen in the building, because the NT doesn't authorize it.  But if that's the case, they should look a bit closer: There's something else the NT doesn't authorize -- A building!  I don't understand how one is OK and the other isn't.
::nodding:: ::amen!::

Offline zoonance

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #54 on: Tue Jul 20, 2010 - 18:01:22 »
If Paul is giving a rigid list here of qualifications, then he himself may not be qualified

You don't suppose that a divinely ordained apostle outranks an elder?


outranks?   As to servanthood?  So an apostle doesn't have to be the husband of one wife, hospitable, etc.... 

Offline stevehut

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #55 on: Sat Mar 19, 2011 - 18:09:13 »
So an apostle doesn't have to be the husband of one wife, hospitable, etc.... 

No such mandate in Scripture, zoo

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #56 on: Tue Mar 22, 2011 - 22:07:34 »
In my church I hold no title of any kind, and I'm not on the payroll.  But sometimes I get called on to teach, wash windows, preach, sweep the parking lot, baptize, clean toilets, vacuum the sanctuary, and counsel people.  What does that make me?   ::lookaround::

I think we all should be humble enough to admit that we have institutionalized traditions that are neither good or bad.  Anyone out there got BCV for a pulpit?  A microphone?  An indoor baptistery?  

Down the street here we have a COC where they believe it's a sin to have a kitchen in the building, because the NT doesn't authorize it.  But if that's the case, they should look a bit closer: There's something else the NT doesn't authorize -- A building!  I don't understand how one is OK and the other isn't.

Since Jesus told us we should remember him regularly in the Eucharist, isn't it reasonable that we have a place to prepare it??  ::noworries::

 
Quote
I think we all should be humble enough to admit that we have institutionalized traditions that are neither good or bad.  Anyone out there got BCV for a pulpit?  A microphone?  An indoor baptistery?  

Down the street here we have a COC where they believe it's a sin to have a kitchen in the building, because the NT doesn't authorize it.  But if that's the case, they should look a bit closer: There's something else the NT doesn't authorize -- A building!  I don't understand how one is OK and the other isn't.
::nodding:: ::amen!::

the bible also never speaks against buildings or having kitchens in them .
So since God never spoke for these things and never spoke against these things and as long as we keep God first in our lives
these would be matters of indifference to God or other wise said christian freedom to have or not to have.  other wise called "Adiaphora'

 adiaphora from the Greek ἀδιάφορα "indifferent things"

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Re: Replacing Max Lucado
« Reply #57 on: Thu Apr 07, 2011 - 21:21:30 »
you pastor that teach in  church buildings made by human hands  shame on you guys  ::frown::

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