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Author Topic: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!  (Read 299 times)

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Offline Dave_UK

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Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 03:36:21 »
Like some other fellow Christians, it is not often that I feel led by the Spirit to pray "without understanding", after having already prayed "with understanding".  It is only in times of great crisis , that in desperation to "get the "ear of the Lord", that this occurs. In common with others, my life is based firmly on statements that I have read in the Bible. I append below, an extract from a message that I wrote on a sub-forum, concerning confidence in prayer : -

"Paul wrote in his epistles "If we ask for anything according to His will, He hears us - and if we know that He hears us, then we know that we have the petitions that we ask" (subject to His omniscient knowledge of what is best for us). This is why, although some say "Pray through till the burden lifts" - my experience of the Lord is that, if He tells me "I have heard you!" - that is good enough for me, I know the matter is in His capable hands - all I have to do is trust Him! "

You will doubtless like millions of others worldwide, have been praying for the successful rescue of the Thai lads trapped far underground in a flooded cave complex.  I followed it at every available stages of reporting, praying often "with understanding" - deeply aware of the lads anxiety as to, whether or not, they would be discovered and rescued.  Thanks to the Lord's orchestration of events, they were discovered and rescued in time - despite enormous difficulties.  Not the least being the fact that they were not swimmers - remembering the almost over-powering fear I experienced at my own initial stage of learning. The desperate flailing around of a person in fear of drowning is much to be feared by would-be rescuers (Thank you "Royal Life Saving Society" for teaching that necessary skill - I do remember what I learnt for my basic Bronze medal test - I was given a very determined/bigger "pretend victim" - certainly no "push-over"!) - hence the very wise decision to heavily sedate those being rescued, So at some stages in the completely flooded areas, a rescuer could hold firmly onto one of the lads - both getting air from their individual Scuba tanks - the difficulties encountered at the < 16" "choke-point" being particularly fraught with danger, requiring temporary detachment from the scuba tanks and passing them on ahead - and then in less flooded areas where it was possible to wade or crawl - a lad would be strapped onto a stretcher for 2 rescuers to carry their semi-conscious lad! ...

 It is for that reason, that I am convinced all would-be learner swimmers need to be taught the basics of just floating in various attitudes - "waving the arms and legs" around to provide some propulsion comes after that essential first step!   

  ...  On the last day of the rescue when there remained yet another 4 lads and their coach to be brought out.  (Incidently, I was impressed that their coach who had spent time as a Bhuddist monk, gave up his share of the birthday snack celebration stuff they had brought with them, and that he taught them how to meditate and use as little energy as possible, on that rather cramped inclined muddy shelf above the flood waters in the cavern.)  The current situation was being reported, when in concerned anguish of heart, with tears my "indwelling Spirit" burst out in prayer - sounds unintelligible to me.  When it ceased, I was astonished to hear the almost audible voice say "I have heard you!" - astonishment, because although I have heard the Lord say that sometimes after praying "with understanding" - it was the first time He had said that to me after a "tongue".  Some time after,  I asked the Lord what all the "gibberish" meant and got what I think was the answer "It was your spirit crying out to My Spirit!".  I knew that the whole business was in His hands - the best most capable hands of all!

I do not for one moment think that my poor prayers amounted to anything much, but with the outpouring of concern globally - and primarily the concern of the Lord Himself - the battle was won.  It was just sad that one of the rescuers lost his life in the preparation for the rescue attempt, while delivering oxygen bottles into the cavern, to bolster the low oxygen content of the air - may the Lord bless and protect that rescuers family!
« Last Edit: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 04:29:50 by Dave_UK »

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Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 03:36:21 »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #1 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 05:48:57 »
Yes that was such an amazing rescue. I feel especially proud as it was 2 British divers who found them and with 5 others helped in the rescue.

Praying in tongues is very powerful.

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #1 on: Thu Jul 12, 2018 - 05:48:57 »

Offline Dave_UK

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #2 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 02:38:38 »
...Praying in tongues is very powerful.

As I have said elsewhere - am deeply aware of the "poverty" of my "prayer-life", it is so often superficial and with relatively little time devoted to it (not even as much as for [what ought to be!] my daily Bible reading!).  The paucity of it makes me wonder in general, how the Lord regards our "Intercessions" sections in the C.of.E services.  The leader gives out the short description for each corporate prayer - to which we dutifully intone a reply, such as "Lord graciously hear us!".  Does that "cut any ice" with the Lord? - or is it just pious words said without deep conviction and concern for the subject of the prayer??? ("These people worship Me with their lips - but their hearts are far from Me!") Perhaps my opinion just reflects the personal "poverty" I wrote of above - and it involves deeper feelings with other worshippers in church services.

 I think Paul writes in one of his epistles, that Jesus would go out into a lonely desert place and pray to the Father, with loud cries and tears.  That speaks of real deep concern and involvement!!!

I have written in my Bible a very short extract of Bill Johnson/Randy Clark's book "The Essential Guide to Healing" in which it says "If my prayer does not move me - it certainly won't move God".  By that, I understand that most of our prayers are like pious intellectual wishes! Am not suggesting that we need to get "all worked up with emotion" when we pray - but if we do not have a deep-felt concern for the subject - almost to the point of agonized concern - then perhaps we should "back off" until we do appreciate what is involved in a subject!

Perhaps corporate meetings/church services are not the place for any "emotional outbursts" in order to preserve decency - but should be strictly reserved for individual private prayer (in the "prayer closet") - then we are free to pray "as led by the Spirit"!

There are, of course, the more practical matters of life! We know full well that we are now the body of Christ here in this world - He has no feet, no hands, but ours - so it behoves us as "living sacrifices" to present ourselves to the Lord, for use in whatever way He wishes.  As with those cave divers that took part in the hazardous rescue of the Thai lads from the cave complex - He may well, according to our suitability for the need, call us to get down in the filth, grime, and dark places of real living.  Your will Lord - not ours!
« Last Edit: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 04:19:57 by Dave_UK »

Offline avenger

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 09:18:51 »
Is "praying in tongues" more powerful than just praying?  If so... how / why?

I don't understand this.

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #3 on: Fri Jul 13, 2018 - 09:18:51 »

Offline Dave_UK

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 02:31:18 »
Is "praying in tongues" more powerful than just praying?  If so... how / why?

I don't understand this.

From my own limited experience of this - I can only offer this suggestion, viz that it bypasses our logical thought processes with all our inbuilt "hang-ups" resulting from the life we have led.  The answer that I received when I asked the Lord in prayer (with "understanding"!) about this - that it was "my(i.e. one's) indwelling spirit crying out to His Spirit" seems to be a satisfactory explanation to me.  Just opening the mouth and deliberately spouting forth "gibberish" is not "praying in the spirit" - it has to come with deep heart-felt emotional involvement for some crisis - and IMO with tears of anxious concern.  It is not some self initiated logical action, but our indwelling spirit's anguished cry to the Lord . It is beyond logical thought!

Doubtless you have come across Scriptures such as - "God has set us in Christ Jesus.", "Christ in you the hope of glory to come." etc, . Although many will not be ready to submit to the Lord's will ruling in our hearts, it can be a fact - and so we can each have deep communion with him - the (often "captive") indwelling spirit with the ever-present Spirit (outside of us!?)

We had an R.C. acquaintance, sadly now deceased, who regularly prayed for the sick "without understanding"(i.e. in some "tongue") with recognized good results.  However, I cannot definitely say that in that process he was "led by the Spirit" - it may well have been a self-initiated action, in logical response to a persons request for prayer!
« Last Edit: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 02:54:43 by Dave_UK »

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #4 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 02:31:18 »



Offline chosenone

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #5 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 07:30:46 »
Is "praying in tongues" more powerful than just praying?  If so... how / why?

I don't understand this.
 

When we do this we are praying completely in His will. Our minds, thoughts and ideas don't come into it. So as has happened with people I have known, God can impress on them the need to pray for something or someone, they can pray in tongues even thought they don't know any specifics or what they are actually praying for. They just know that they are praying in His will for a situation that needs prayer.  Also the Bible says that praying this way builds us up spiritually. 

Offline chosenone

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #6 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 07:42:36 »
As I have said elsewhere - am deeply aware of the "poverty" of my "prayer-life", it is so often superficial and with relatively little time devoted to it (not even as much as for [what ought to be!] my daily Bible reading!).  The paucity of it makes me wonder in general, how the Lord regards our "Intercessions" sections in the C.of.E services.  The leader gives out the short description for each corporate prayer - to which we dutifully intone a reply, such as "Lord graciously hear us!".  Does that "cut any ice" with the Lord? - or is it just pious words said without deep conviction and concern for the subject of the prayer??? ("These people worship Me with their lips - but their hearts are far from Me!") Perhaps my opinion just reflects the personal "poverty" I wrote of above - and it involves deeper feelings with other worshippers in church services.

 I think Paul writes in one of his epistles, that Jesus would go out into a lonely desert place and pray to the Father, with loud cries and tears.  That speaks of real deep concern and involvement!!!

I have written in my Bible a very short extract of Bill Johnson/Randy Clark's book "The Essential Guide to Healing" in which it says "If my prayer does not move me - it certainly won't move God".  By that, I understand that most of our prayers are like pious intellectual wishes! Am not suggesting that we need to get "all worked up with emotion" when we pray - but if we do not have a deep-felt concern for the subject - almost to the point of agonized concern - then perhaps we should "back off" until we do appreciate what is involved in a subject!

Perhaps corporate meetings/church services are not the place for any "emotional outbursts" in order to preserve decency - but should be strictly reserved for individual private prayer (in the "prayer closet") - then we are free to pray "as led by the Spirit"!

There are, of course, the more practical matters of life! We know full well that we are now the body of Christ here in this world - He has no feet, no hands, but ours - so it behoves us as "living sacrifices" to present ourselves to the Lord, for use in whatever way He wishes.  As with those cave divers that took part in the hazardous rescue of the Thai lads from the cave complex - He may well, according to our suitability for the need, call us to get down in the filth, grime, and dark places of real living.  Your will Lord - not ours!

Some of the things you have said here are why I stay away from churches that use those sorts of repetitive prayers. I was bought up in a High Anglican church, and the 'religion' I got from it has taken me many years to get rid of. I am now probably one of the least religious Christians ever, my relationship with God and my faith is very relaxed. He is my Dad and I am His child, that's it. I can chat to Him any time and anywhere, and guess what, I don't even need to close my eyes or put my hands together which for many years I thought was the only 'proper' way to pray!

I've been praying in tongues for about 30 years now, and what I have learnt is that in each person it is in some ways individual. I can pray in tongues any time and anywhere. Its not something that I only do in a crisis, but just the same as my prayer life in English is normal, so is this. Its also under our control as to when and if we do it. My husband(who has been praying in tongues for about 40 years) can pray in tongues in his head as well, I cant do that, I have to actually speak it out physically.     

Offline Dave_UK

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #7 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 14:16:07 »
Quote from: chosenone
Some of the things you have said here are why I stay away from churches that use those sorts of repetitive prayers. I was bought up in a High Anglican church, and the 'religion' I got from it has taken me many years to get rid of...

I agree with your sentiment on such repetitive "gutless" corporate prayer - unfortunately it is a case of "Hobson's choice" choice in the matter for me, due to transport problems.  There are a couple of other churches - a Mormon church  ::frown:: about a mile away, also a  "fellowship" church (attached to the C.of.E) "aimed at" parents and their young children (not our "cup of tea" since they have meetings in the afternoons).  There are 2 others, an old  Methodist some 2 miles away and a friendly Baptist church at a similar distance. Both at the upper limit of my walking ability now - just don't mention bus transport - our first bus into town is after 10:30 on Sundays!

I am so glad that you, and your "hubby", are experienced in the use of "tongues" - by comparison I am a very late "developer" because when younger, I thought it was just meaningless gibberish, without any real value!  I understand that some that use "tongues" do have an "inkling" of what is being spoken, although Paul describes it as prayer "without understanding".

Quote
my relationship with God and my faith is very relaxed. He is my Dad and I am His child, that's it. I can chat to Him any time and anywhere, and guess what, I don't even need to close my eyes or put my hands together which for many years I thought was the only 'proper' way to pray! 


 Amen to that!  Whenever and wherever - He is there, just as He promised, and we will find Him as we turn our hearts towards Him. "Those who would come to God must believe that He exists, and is a rewarder of those who seek His face."
« Last Edit: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 14:30:55 by Dave_UK »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #8 on: Sat Jul 14, 2018 - 15:12:01 »
When we last moved I made sure that we had a good church nearby within 10 min's walk(actually its 8 min's walk). I don't drive and who knows if one day we may not be able to depend on a car.
Its a Baptist church this time(we have been to many different denominations in the past). Its pretty relaxed and informal and we don't have those repetitive prayers etc. As it happen we are moving again to a new county, and we have found another nice looking church, also a Baptist which seems to be more relaxed as well. Its a bit further away, but still walkable at the moment, although as we get older probably not.

You just have to make the best of where you can get to don't you.

Offline Dave_UK

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #9 on: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 01:43:49 »
Quote from: chosenone
...You just have to make the best of where you can get to don't you.

Yes indeed! We, of the possibly older generation ::smile:: may not be as "mobile" as those of the younger generation.  We did go to the friendly Baptist for a couple of Sundays - but the absence of liturgy was a bit of a shock (although we had regularly attended a Baptist church in Sandown on the I.O.W. - over 15 years ago - where I "got" my full-immersion baptism as a re-dedication to the Lord.  The "baby-sprinkling" in a high Anglican church, when an infant did not count IMO - it needs to be a "believer's" baptism, to "identify with" the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.

 In the end it was it's distance from us in our relativlely new locality (West Midlands) that brought that experiment to a close.   None of the people at any of the churches in this town that we have tried, felt inclined to offer a "lift" for "outliers" without transport.  Even the C.of.E I attend fairly regularly, whenever there is a joint service with a church outside the locality or some other similar venture - no one ever offers any transport to others, despite the fact that the majority of attendees have cars.  It's not that we are (I hope  ::eek::) obnoxious - we just aren't all that familiar with others - what an unfriendly lot - all scattered around the church, often just one or maybe up to 3 to each pew (attendees vary between 15-25 in total).  And to think we are all part of the body of Christ!!! 

I have heard it said that our locality is the most "God-forsaken" in the county! Yet down at the "gritty end" of life, we have devoted "street pastors" ministering to the troubled late night "revellers" in the town centre some 2 or 3 miles away - and there is a "food bank" system for those in need etc, to which many contribute, and are staffed by "eager to help" volunteers. So there are signs of Jesus working in some!  Maybe all it needs is some sort of "ignition" or "vital spark", that will shock all of us into action! 
« Last Edit: Sun Jul 15, 2018 - 02:36:44 by Dave_UK »

Offline Dave_UK

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #10 on: Wed Jul 18, 2018 - 05:08:29 »
Back to the topic!

  My wife sees and talks with a great many more people than I ever do, during her journey-ings to her gym/swim pool venues each day.  She lifts their "concerns" to the Lord during our joint prayer time - and increasingly of late - I join in, with tears, moved by their troubles, and "praying in the Spirit" quietly.  BUT I do not now "hear" the still small voice saying "I have heard you" at the close - maybe that's because He is fully aware of our cries, and expects us to trust that He has heard!  Perhaps I'm too "hung up" on the Scripture I quoted near the start of this thread "If we ask for anything according to His will, we know that He hears us, and if He hears us, then we know we have the petitions that we ask" (subject to His omniscient knowledge of what is best).

When you have "prayed in the spirit" for others needs - have you "heard" any sort of "acknowledgement" or sensed a "burden release" at the end of prayer???   
« Last Edit: Wed Jul 18, 2018 - 05:12:51 by Dave_UK »

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: Another little step forwards in "Praying in the Spirit"?!
« Reply #11 on: Wed Jul 18, 2018 - 05:12:15 »
...
When you have prayed in the spirit for others needs - have you "heard" any sort of "acknowledgement" or felt a "burden release" at the end of prayer???

Yes, but not every time.