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Offline MeMyself

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #140 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 10:33:39 »
Could someone *please* share what ARE some examples of godly Christian worship songs and dress and how they "should be" performed (please don't get flipped out at the word perform, its just the best one I could find to fit the context)?


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Re: Church Music
« Reply #140 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 10:33:39 »

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #141 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 10:35:15 »
Tell me, from where do you have all the information about early church meetings and what happened in them?

I don't claim to know what went down at early church meetings...but...neither do you know for sure. It seemed dishonest to try and use Paul's long winded preaching putting that one kid to sleep as an example of the "norm" in worship then ::shrug::

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #141 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 10:35:15 »

Offline AVZ

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #142 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 11:00:53 »
I don't claim to know what went down at early church meetings...but...neither do you know for sure. It seemed dishonest to try and use Paul's long winded preaching putting that one kid to sleep as an example of the "norm" in worship then ::shrug::

Eh, correction?

You said: "The early church services were spirit filled, not boring and religious. Many prophecies, words given in tongues, singing in the spirit, real genuine praise and worship." Post 135
You also said: "I think that most churches and Christians today would be pretty shocked and uncomfortable the way those in the early church worshiped, far far too lively and spirit filled for them." Post 117

Seems to me you have some intimate knowledge about what was going on in the church meetings of the early Church.
Or is what you say just wishful thinking?

There are actually very few references in scripture to what happened in the church meetings. Just 3 that I can remember off the top of my head:

1) Paul tells about whats going on the the Corinthian church. And he condemns it.
2) Ananias and Sapphira. Not really a case of a lively event, but I agree most definitely not boring at all.
3) Eutychus fell out of a window. Doesn't sound too much like a lively church to me. Cant even keep the people awake.

I don't understand why people make up all that stuff about the early church. The Bible never tells us there was prophesy, tongues and lively spirit filled events all around.
You can literally count the number of times the Bible talks about these things happening in the church on the fingers of two hands. Maximum.
And there must have been thousands upon thousands of church meetings.

The plain and simple fact is that besides preaching the gospel, singing hymns and communion we do not know what went on in these meetings and if anything else went on.
And from what we know of the historical hymns, they were not at all dance tunes but sober, respectful and easily identifiable from secular music.

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #143 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 11:10:03 »
Eh, correction?

You said: "The early church services were spirit filled, not boring and religious. Many prophecies, words given in tongues, singing in the spirit, real genuine praise and worship." Post 135
You also said: "I think that most churches and Christians today would be pretty shocked and uncomfortable the way those in the early church worshiped, far far too lively and spirit filled for them." Post 117

That was ChosenOne that said that.

I was addressing your objection and use of a time someone fell asleep during a long winded sermon of Paul's as a counter to what she said.


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Re: Church Music
« Reply #143 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 11:10:03 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #144 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 11:13:37 »
And from what we know of the historical hymns, they were not at all dance tunes but sober, respectful and easily identifiable from secular music.

Historical hymns are nothing more than an exposing of the "norms" of the time they were written in...and there is no time on earth that a people was perfectly righteous and holy.  I also am willing to bet that they were very similar in style of "secular" music of their times.

Times and norms change, therefore they are not the basis by which we decide what is acceptable...even *if* what was resonates best with our own preferences.


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Re: Church Music
« Reply #144 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 11:13:37 »



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Re: Church Music
« Reply #145 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 11:13:45 »
Eh, correction?

You said: "The early church services were spirit filled, not boring and religious. Many prophecies, words given in tongues, singing in the spirit, real genuine praise and worship." Post 135
You also said: "I think that most churches and Christians today would be pretty shocked and uncomfortable the way those in the early church worshiped, far far too lively and spirit filled for them." Post 117

Seems to me you have some intimate knowledge about what was going on in the church meetings of the early Church.
Or is what you say just wishful thinking?

There are actually very few references in scripture to what happened in the church meetings. Just 3 that I can remember off the top of my head:

1) Paul tells about whats going on the the Corinthian church. And he condemns it.
2) Ananias and Sapphira. Not really a case of a lively event, but I agree most definitely not boring at all.
3) Eutychus fell out of a window. Doesn't sound too much like a lively church to me. Cant even keep the people awake.

I don't understand why people make up all that stuff about the early church. The Bible never tells us there was prophesy, tongues and lively spirit filled events all around.
You can literally count the number of times the Bible talks about these things happening in the church on the fingers of two hands. Maximum.
And there must have been thousands upon thousands of church meetings.

The plain and simple fact is that besides preaching the gospel, singing hymns and communion we do not know what went on in these meetings and if anything else went on.
And from what we know of the historical hymns, they were not at all dance tunes but sober, respectful and easily identifiable from secular music.

Amen!  ::amen!:: Many modern professing Christians, fond of restless novelty, are sick and tired of the sobriety and gravity of traditional church music. They are pragmatists, finding every excuse they can think of in order to make church music more similar to secular music. Even in the middle ages, the Church with its sobriety and gravity of her own music, influenced even the more secular genres of music to follow this good example: But today, the world is dominating the music of the church. I already pointed this out in one of my earlier posts. I have a question for you, AVZ. Does your church allow instrumental music, solos, and/or choirs in public worship, and if so, does it allow women to sing solos or as members of a church choir or become choir directors?

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #146 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 11:32:46 »
I was sound and video director at our church for several years but I resigned that position some time ago now. I was to be there one hour prior to the start of service and remain for one half hour after the commencement of service. Just prior to my resignation, we had a female worship leader, she cared little about traditional gospel music or about the elderly in the congregation. There were constant complaints that the music was too loud and distracting, she was turning the worship session into a rock concert with her Bethel inspired music choices of Hilsong, Jeremy Riddle, Newsboys, et al. The Church pastor liked the direction she was taking despite the people that would purposely come late, or move to the foyer to chat where the music was less piercing. I did have a decibel meter that I was to keep the master volume in check with at 98db max, but she continuously asked for "more". I was caught in the middle of the complaints and the worship team and since no one would draw the line in the sand, I resigned.

I do enjoy a lot of secular music but I don't want to hear it at church, it's distracting and uncomfortable IMO. 

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #147 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 11:41:36 »
I was sound and video director at our church for several years but I resigned that position some time ago now. I was to be there one hour prior to the start of service and remain for one half hour after the commencement of service. Just prior to my resignation, we had a female worship leader, she cared little about traditional gospel music or about the elderly in the congregation. There were constant complaints that the music was too loud and distracting, she was turning the worship session into a rock concert with her Bethel inspired music choices of Hilsong, Jeremy Riddle, Newsboys, et al. The Church pastor liked the direction she was taking despite the people that would purposely come late, or move to the foyer to chat where the music was less piercing. I did have a decibel meter that I was to keep the master volume in check with at 98db max, but she continuously asked for "more". I was caught in the middle of the complaints and the worship team and since no one would draw the line in the sand, I resigned.

I do enjoy a lot of secular music but I don't want to hear it at church, it's distracting and uncomfortable IMO.

I *do* think its unfortunate when any agenda becomes more important than the hearts in attendance...and that respect for others/elders was tossed aside.

The "worship songs" only sect can be just as legalistic as the "traditional music" only-ers and that is too bad.

We have to find a way to stop seeing things that are disputable matters as ABSOLUTES and instead of showing grace or  denying self over our person preferences, we make absolute proclamations about the "other camps" we disagree with. (such has been posted here about making themselves god and worshipping satan  ::doh:: ::frown::)


The lost world watches us bicker and condemn and our lack of grace and maturity makes them say, "Jesus? Uh, no thanks!"

Its heartbreaking.

Offline AVZ

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #148 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 12:27:27 »
That was ChosenOne that said that.

I was addressing your objection and use of a time someone fell asleep during a long winded sermon of Paul's as a counter to what she said.

Yeah, sorry for that. Now I see. Apologies.

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #149 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 12:33:23 »
Does your church allow instrumental music, solos, and/or choirs in public worship, and if so, does it allow women to sing solos or as members of a church choir or become choir directors?

I am not so sure what the relevance is. I am expressing my personal opinion and not what "my" church thinks.
Anyway, yes we allow instrumental music and in fact the music ministry is very active and attracts lots of youth. We have a fantastic orchestra made up of about 100 members.
Every service has a choir of about 30 people, so thats in total also more than 100 choir members.
Women as well as men sing in those choirs and do solo's, and I don't see why that could be a problem. And we have both male and female choir directors.
On top of that we have both Prayer & Praise services as well as Traditional services.

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #150 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 13:05:09 »
Yeah, sorry for that. Now I see. Apologies.

Thank you, AVZ and no worries!  ::smile::

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #151 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 13:16:00 »
Historical hymns are nothing more than an exposing of the "norms" of the time they were written in...and there is no time on earth that a people was perfectly righteous and holy.  I also am willing to bet that they were very similar in style of "secular" music of their times.

Times and norms change, therefore they are not the basis by which we decide what is acceptable...even *if* what was resonates best with our own preferences.
I agree.
I had many years of those old hymns at school and in the church I was bought up in, and boy am I glad to be free of them. Most were dead dry dirges, and there was no way that you could ever worship or praise the living, active, amazing God with them. I used to think that you had to be miserable to be a good Christian, and those songs certainly confirmed that to me as a child.

Offline Open Heart

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #152 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 13:21:18 »
I'm sorry, but although I'm all for doing things in a more modern music style, the following is true about current praise music compare to old hymns:


1. the words are more vacuous.
2. they are less poetic, no rhyming, etc.
3. they are less singable -- the melodies are simply harder
4. you have to learn them by rote -- music is not included
5. there is no harmony
6. loud volume (sometimes to the point where it hurts my ears) is substituted for the lack of substance.
7. basically, the music culture has become one of entertainment than one of participation.

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #153 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 13:26:40 »
Even in the middle ages, the Church with its sobriety and gravity of her own music, influenced even the more secular genres of music to follow this good example:
During the Middle Ages, the Gregorian Chant in the Churches was NOTHING like the secular music of the times.

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #154 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 13:27:50 »
I agree.
I had many years of those old hymns at school and in the church I was bought up in, and boy am I glad to be free of them. Most were dead dry dirges, and there was no way that you could ever worship or praise the living, active, amazing God with them. I used to think that you had to be miserable to be a good Christian, and those songs certainly confirmed that to me as a child.

I used to feel that way as well. I judged them on style alone and how they didn't live up to my preferences. (not saying that is what others that dislike them do, just speaking for myself---this is my own testimony and why I feel the way I do)
and then someone challenged me to read some of the stories behind the old hymns...and I am glad I was challenged!  When I read what led the composers of the songs to the words they chose, the style was of far lesser importance!

I learned to see things from their heart, rather than judge them on appearance and style alone.

I am a lover of music...hymns and praise songs alike, and I will defend either style, because I am confident that it was God who whispered His hope to their heart and they put that hope to song.  I also know how terrifying and vulnerable it is to share that whisper with a world *more* than ready to find fault...even our brothers and sisters in Christ... ::mopingaround::


Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #155 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 15:13:50 »
You don't know that.
It may have been so boring that someone fell asleep and dropped down from a window.

Which is an argument that assemblies should NOT focus so exclusively on long-winded preaching by one guy, but should be more active and group-participatory.

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #156 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 15:47:33 »
Eh, correction?

You said: "The early church services were spirit filled, not boring and religious. Many prophecies, words given in tongues, singing in the spirit, real genuine praise and worship." Post 135
You also said: "I think that most churches and Christians today would be pretty shocked and uncomfortable the way those in the early church worshiped, far far too lively and spirit filled for them." Post 117

Seems to me you have some intimate knowledge about what was going on in the church meetings of the early Church.
Or is what you say just wishful thinking?

There are actually very few references in scripture to what happened in the church meetings. Just 3 that I can remember off the top of my head:

1) Paul tells about whats going on the the Corinthian church. And he condemns it.

No, he condemns a few specific things.  That's why I take the rest of it as normative.

Quote
2) Ananias and Sapphira. Not really a case of a lively event, but I agree most definitely not boring at all.
3) Eutychus fell out of a window. Doesn't sound too much like a lively church to me. Cant even keep the people awake.

Which is an argument AGAINST that kind of service as being normative.

Quote
I don't understand why people make up all that stuff about the early church. The Bible never tells us there was prophesy, tongues and lively spirit filled events all around.
You can literally count the number of times the Bible talks about these things happening in the church on the fingers of two hands. Maximum.
And there must have been thousands upon thousands of church meetings.

More accurately, the Bible does not talk in detail about the goings on in the assemblies one way or the other -- certainly not enough to know that staid and formal was the norm, either.

Quote
The plain and simple fact is that besides preaching the gospel, singing hymns and communion we do not know what went on in these meetings and if anything else went on.

Maybe that's what YOU "know."  It's not what OTHERS of us "know."

*I* know there was widespread praying and singing in tongues, prophesying, singing of psalms (complete with the style and accompaniment of Psa. 149-150), dancing, and participation by members in various gifts as the Spirit willed.

Quote
And from what we know of the historical hymns, they were not at all dance tunes but sober, respectful and easily identifiable from secular music.

And we know that the early Church drew much of their praise and worship style from the Psalms, which included both quiet reverence and loud, active, celebratory elements.

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #157 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 16:07:10 »
I'm sorry, but although I'm all for doing things in a more modern music style, the following is true about current praise music compare to old hymns:

I'm not up on the current crop of "manufactured" music.  I'm mostly familiar with the stuff from 25+ years ago.  I really appreciate the several "Praise" albums from Petra.

Quote
1. the words are more vacuous.

This has been my unfortunate experience visiting a church a friend of mine pastors.  Apparently a lot of the songs are composed by their own band members.

Quote
2. they are less poetic, no rhyming, etc.
3. they are less singable -- the melodies are simply harder

The latter has never been my experience.  The former is sometimes true because many composers write in keys in which THEY are comfortable singing.

Quote
4. you have to learn them by rote -- music is not included

For many -- most? -- people, this is irrelevant.  I can *sort of* read music, but trying to do so while also singing the lyrics is an utterly unwelcome distraction.

Quote
5. there is no harmony

So?

Quote
6. loud volume (sometimes to the point where it hurts my ears) is substituted for the lack of substance.

I've never experienced it THAT loud.  In the old days -- '80s -- the guys from my church band were also in a Christian rock band.  Their concerts sometimes DID get to that level, but not their playing in church.

Quote
7. basically, the music culture has become one of entertainment than one of participation.

Maybe.  Or maybe that's just perception.  In the old days, the soaring architecture of churches supposedly called attention to the greatness and exaltation of God.  If I had not been *told* that, and not terribly long ago, I would have considered it meaningless ostentation.  I would not be surprised to learn that many truly consider loud music and light shows to symbolize the power and glory of God.  Personally, while I appreciate upbeat, celebratory music (not to the exclusion of all other types), I'm not big on fancy lighting, smoke machines, etc.

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #158 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 16:58:11 »
I used to feel that way as well. I judged them on style alone and how they didn't live up to my preferences. (not saying that is what others that dislike them do, just speaking for myself---this is my own testimony and why I feel the way I do)
and then someone challenged me to read some of the stories behind the old hymns...and I am glad I was challenged!  When I read what led the composers of the songs to the words they chose, the style was of far lesser importance!

I learned to see things from their heart, rather than judge them on appearance and style alone.

I am a lover of music...hymns and praise songs alike, and I will defend either style, because I am confident that it was God who whispered His hope to their heart and they put that hope to song.  I also know how terrifying and vulnerable it is to share that whisper with a world *more* than ready to find fault...even our brothers and sisters in Christ... ::mopingaround::


Yes and there are some real old classics that you just KNOW were written by spirit filled people. My preference though is the more  modern meaningful worship songs. I am not a fan of very loud really bouncy type of music, so more worship than praise I guess. Ones that just draw me to God are my choice, and they are in the main the more modern songs. 'Indescribable' by Chris Tomlin just moves me to awe and wonder of the amazing God we worship.


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Re: Church Music
« Reply #159 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 17:19:37 »

Yes and there are some real old classics that you just KNOW were written by spirit filled people. My preference though is the more  modern meaningful worship songs. I am not a fan of very loud really bouncy type of music, so more worship than praise I guess. Ones that just draw me to God are my choice, and they are in the main the more modern songs. 'Indescribable' by Chris Tomlin just moves me to awe and wonder of the amazing God we worship.

 ::smile::  I can appreciate that! Thanks for sharing your preference, Chosen!

I SO respect it when people say "this is what I prefer", rather than pretend a preference means that *they* are more godly or right and they even get to speak for God and do His condemning for Him.

Like you, I LOVE many of Chris Tomlin's worship songs, Hillsong isn't really a fave of mine (oddly enough, I can't keep their lyrics straight and for me to be able to worship with all my heart, I can't be constantly looking at the words); still, I can't discount the obvious impact they've had on the lives of others.  God obviously enjoys variety, just look at how wide and vast and different His own family is ( ::wink:: ) so who are we (mere humans) to limit whom He works through and how He chooses to touch people and draw them to Himself? ::shrug::  Its sad that this obviously disputable matter (based on preference) can't be shown a measure of grace...(not shaking a finger at YOU or saying YOU specifically aren't showing grace, Chosen...just venting and wishing for something that reflects a bit better the grace God shows each of us, is all)
« Last Edit: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 17:24:54 by MeMyself »

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #160 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 18:46:49 »
::smile::  I can appreciate that! Thanks for sharing your preference, Chosen!

I SO respect it when people say "this is what I prefer", rather than pretend a preference means that *they* are more godly or right and they even get to speak for God and do His condemning for Him.

Like you, I LOVE many of Chris Tomlin's worship songs, Hillsong isn't really a fave of mine (oddly enough, I can't keep their lyrics straight and for me to be able to worship with all my heart, I can't be constantly looking at the words); still, I can't discount the obvious impact they've had on the lives of others.  God obviously enjoys variety, just look at how wide and vast and different His own family is ( ::wink:: ) so who are we (mere humans) to limit whom He works through and how He chooses to touch people and draw them to Himself? ::shrug::  Its sad that this obviously disputable matter (based on preference) can't be shown a measure of grace...(not shaking a finger at YOU or saying YOU specifically aren't showing grace, Chosen...just venting and wishing for something that reflects a bit better the grace God shows each of us, is all)

Yes, God loves us all as different unique individuals and that includes the way we worship. Some love the bouncy louder worship(and children LOVE that), some the more reflective quiet times, some the worshipful music that enables them to be drawn close to God. As long as we are worshipping Him then that's what matters.
When you think of the majority who reject God and don't give Him a thought, and those who attack Him and His followers, I think he more than happy that we are worshiping Him at all.  I think Heaven will be a pretty awesome place with the variety of worship we will find there.

 

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #161 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 19:44:32 »
Yes, God loves us all as different unique individuals and that includes the way we worship. Some love the bouncy louder worship(and children LOVE that), some the more reflective quiet times, some the worshipful music that enables them to be drawn close to God. As long as we are worshipping Him then that's what matters.
When you think of the majority who reject God and don't give Him a thought, and those who attack Him and His followers, I think he more than happy that we are worshiping Him at all.  I think Heaven will be a pretty awesome place with the variety of worship we will find there.

 ::nodding:: ::amen!:: ::clappingoverhead:: It will be amazing!

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #162 on: Fri Apr 20, 2018 - 22:07:16 »
Which is an argument that assemblies should NOT focus so exclusively on long-winded preaching by one guy, but should be more active and group-participatory.

Or make sure you always preach on the ground floor

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #163 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 07:32:35 »
I hate the JIMB-y songs.  Self indulgent trash.

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #164 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 08:18:12 »
I hate the JIMB-y songs.  Self indulgent trash.

Dear TexasConservative,

RB, one of the more conservative of our fellow forum members, is on a journey and and I do not know when he will return. There is a strong tendency in many professedly Christian churches to mingle the praises of God with the theatrical pop music of the world. Pious and wise professedly Christian Church dignitaries, clergymen, and theologians (whether "Roman Catholic", Protestant, or Eastern Orthodox) have historically condemned abuses like these, as tending to worldly conformity and the desecration of the "Sabbath" (which had historically been assumed to fall on a Sunday).

"NorrinRadd", "chosenone", and "MeMyself" have shown their true colors as Leftists on the subject of church music, yet they refuse to admit they are conforming to the lusts of the flesh and of the world. It is IMPOSSIBLE to glorify both God and the flesh at the same time.

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #165 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 09:04:42 »
"NorrinRadd", "chosenone", and "MeMyself" have shown their true colors as Leftists on the subject of church music, yet they refuse to admit they are conforming to the lusts of the flesh and of the world. It is IMPOSSIBLE to glorify both God and the flesh at the same time.

In my opinion, (since you are kicking around absolutes about the 'true colors' of others and specifically me) it is you that is glorifying your flesh.  You've taken scriptures and formed them to your own agenda, decided that God fits *your* ideals for Him and in doing so, you create Christ in your own image. (but that's just my opinion and luckily for you, my opinion matters as much to God about you as yours does of those YOU disagree with...nada!)

What I refuse to conform to is your set of rules on the subject and your *personal* conviction on the matter; and I also refuse to allow the stand you try and impose upon others to go unchallenged. (I would be fine with it, if you kept it to personal conviction, but since you are implying that others are "conforming to the lusts of the world"  and saying that they aren't glorifying God, but Satan, over worship styles, I'm gonna speak up.   ::shrug:: Call me whatever you need to to make yourself feel "better" than...

This is a disputable matter and one you refuse to show an ounce of grace over. Somehow music has become a major in your theology, and it just isn't one.  Don't worry though, because our convictions differ in this area, if I were to invite you over for dinner with my family, we would play no music at all, so we do not cause you to stumble. ::smile::
« Last Edit: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 09:14:02 by MeMyself »

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #166 on: Sat Apr 21, 2018 - 17:18:35 »
...
"NorrinRadd", "chosenone", and "MeMyself" have shown their true colors as Leftists on the subject of church music, yet they refuse to admit they are conforming to the lusts of the flesh and of the world. It is IMPOSSIBLE to glorify both God and the flesh at the same time.

I'm not sure what "leftist" means in this context.  If it means, "liberal," well... then I'm still not sure exactly what YOU intend by that.  In any case, it's not a term that particularly bothers me.  I'm "conservative" on things like the deity and miracles of Christ.  I'm fairly conservative on the inspiration and authority of Scripture.  But my understanding of Scripture has led me to conclusions some would probably characterize as "liberal."  So be it.

Offline Carey

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #167 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 08:04:22 »
I'm not sure what "leftist" means in this context.  If it means, "liberal," well... then I'm still not sure exactly what YOU intend by that.  In any case, it's not a term that particularly bothers me.  I'm "conservative" on things like the deity and miracles of Christ.  I'm fairly conservative on the inspiration and authority of Scripture.  But my understanding of Scripture has led me to conclusions some would probably characterize as "liberal."  So be it.

 ::pondering::

Since leftist is the opposite of rightist, that would make you a wrongist.  ::tippinghat::

You most certainly do have a more liberal bent than I when it comes to some issues, on others you seem more conservative.  Same goes for Memyself and Chosenone.  I dunno, but I think that is exactly where one should wanna be.


Offline MeMyself

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #168 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 08:49:32 »
::pondering::

Since leftist is the opposite of rightist, that would make you a wrongist.  ::tippinghat::

You most certainly do have a more liberal bent than I when it comes to some issues, on others you seem more conservative.  Same goes for Memyself and Chosenone.  I dunno, but I think that is exactly where one should wanna be.

I was thinking on that as well. ::smile::

Jesus always makes me ask myself the hard questions and if my answer is "because *I* like it this way", I'm in the wrong.

I do NOT like it when other believers start throwing their own way around and try to convince those listening that any that do not believe like they do are "conforming to lusts of the flesh" and other nasty things like that.

My flesh...would just let me be lazy, be a bandwagoner, never ask myself hard questions about why I feel the way I do, and would let the Word fit ME, rather than me fit with it...but Jesus never lets me settle for that and it is exhausting!!!  rofl

The conclusion of the matter? If my commitment to grace makes me a leftist, a liberal...oh yes, please...because God Himself has been so liberal in applying His grace to me! ::smile::

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #169 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 09:10:23 »
On the subject of Church Music, "MeMyself" has proven herself to be a Politically Correct cultural Marxist and feminist!

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #170 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 09:16:28 »
On the subject of Church Music, "MeMyself" has proven herself to be a Politically Correct cultural Marxist and feminist!

 ::eatingpopcorn:

I wonder what Jesus is gonna say now? I love the part when the Accuser sits back down and my defender stands up, and clears His throat....

 ::eatingpopcorn:

(its heartbreaking how often the Accuser speaks through brothers and sisters in Christ  ::mopingaround::  )
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 09:19:02 by MeMyself »

Offline soterion

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #171 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 09:23:01 »
But today, the world is dominating the music of the church.

Today, it is quite possible the world is influencing so much of what the church is supposed to be about.

I would think if I was going to try and tackle worldly influences on the church, I would point out something a bit weightier than whether soloists, choirs, or instrumental music are being used. I don't even believe I would call this topic a salvation issue. I think there are more important topics to tackle for the good of all.

If you see a problem with worldly influence in the church, then any actual departure from the scriptures regarding music is just a symptom. You can't beat the problem by just pointing out one symptom. Find the root cause of that symptom, and others, and then deal with that root cause. If you do this, the music can take care of itself in time and you won't even necessarily have to mention it.

Browbeating people regarding this will get you nowhere. ::frown::

Offline Carey

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #172 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 12:37:09 »
On the subject of Church Music, "MeMyself" has proven herself to be a Politically Correct cultural Marxist and feminist!

 rofl

I know you may think you are insulting Memyself, but y'all might want to look up some of those terms you are using.  Someone using leftist and Marxist to describe musical taste may be undermining his/her credibility.  just sayin'  ::tippinghat::

Offline MeMyself

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #173 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 13:10:51 »
rofl

I know you may think you are insulting Memyself, but y'all might want to look up some of those terms you are using.  Someone using leftist and Marxist to describe musical taste may be undermining his/her credibility.  just sayin'  ::tippinghat::

My husband said, "What does that even *mean*" and so we looked it up...funny stuff.

Still, at the heart of it, is a desire to shame and silence and so he pulled out the biggest guns he could think of...

kinda like little kids do when they are REALLY mad and call you a "stinky poop face".

 ::eatingpopcorn:

Offline NorrinRadd

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Re: Church Music
« Reply #174 on: Sun Apr 22, 2018 - 21:38:56 »
::pondering::

Since leftist is the opposite of rightist, that would make you a wrongist.  ::tippinghat::

You most certainly do have a more liberal bent than I when it comes to some issues, on others you seem more conservative.  Same goes for Memyself and Chosenone.  I dunno, but I think that is exactly where one should wanna be.

I'm not "comfortable" with all my own views, nor with the fact that a few of them definitely depart from those of NT scholars I admire and respect.  But I have to go with what I see in Scripture, and some things that I've come to see, I am now not able to "un-see."