Author Topic: fertility  (Read 793 times)

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son of God

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fertility
« on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 - 01:31:14 »
In a quandry -- I read the bible as stating that: 1) God is in control of the womb, to shut it or open it 2) God says that miscarriage is a judgment from Him 3) God says that dry breasts are a judgment from Him.  So what's the quandry?  A) I see that we Christians agree with #1 and are typically ignorant of #'s 2 & 3, but then spend all sorts of money and time and emotion and prayer for success while using fertility treatments.  Isn't this hypocritical?  Or does the Word somewhere say to do this?  B)  The scriptures also state that we have the mind of Christ.  If so, then why do we do/pray these things in these situations?  Isn't this also hypicritical?  Or maybe I'm just a wacko that's all confused.  If you can clarify/rectify this situation for me, I'd appreciate it.

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fertility
« on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 - 01:31:14 »

larry2

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Re: fertility
« Reply #1 on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 - 03:03:05 »

I read where there is no condemnation to those which are in Christ, and then all things are of God. Because God does things, are we not to ask for His help?

Would you consider Hannah wrong by pouring her heart out to the Lord over being barren? Though her womb was unfruitful, the Lord remembered her and she conceived. Dear brother, we have freedom in Christ.

Matthew 21:22  And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. Now this is amended by 1 John 5:14. And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask anything ACCORDING TO HIS WILL, he heareth us.

Hebrews 4:16  Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

In Jesus' name - larry2

   

son of God

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Re: fertility
« Reply #2 on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 - 09:17:57 »
Good brother Larry2:

I think you missed what I said.  Yes, God is in control, and we are to pour out our heart to Him.  The Word also states that often our heart isn't in line with His, and thus we are not granted our requests.  We are urged, and indeed even told to make our requests known to God, who hears us.  However, that is a far cry from not accepting His response, of not accepting the fact that He has closed the womb, and not waiting for Him to open it.  Hannah did this.  God was gracious, which He doesn't have to be, and opened her womb.  We know that it might be on the male's part that the infertility is there, as we may find this out from the doctor.  But why do we go to the doctor about it?  If God opens and closes the womb, then why don't we wait on Him to open it?  Could it possibly be that God is trying to get our attention to something in our life?  This is stated in the Word.  Could it possibly be because we are walking in sin?  This too, is stated in the Word.  God always does His thing for good reason, right?  We need to have His mind in these things, not what we have been preconditioned to believe: especially when it ignores the clear Word of God and simple reasoning.  What I wrote was not about asking God about it, or even asking God to change it, as both of those things are proper to do, as stated also in the Word.  What is improper is not waiting on the Lord in it and going to the doctor about it and trying treatments for it, for in so doing we have ignored God in it, no matter what we say to the contrary: what we have then done in no way fits the Word of God.  Even without the Word of God telling us that these things are a judgment from God, or a testing from Him, simple reasoning should preclude us from circumventing the Holy One, the Awesome God who we are to follow with pure alacrity.  Submission is a word that few Christians indeed like to hear in our modern culture.  It's tragic.  So, if anyone can present the Word for our trying fertility methods, I am very open to hearing them.  Thanks.

Sorry, Larry2, but you mixed two totally different things in your reply, as evidenced in your first sentence/question, and the Word which you used subsequent to it.  And a third issue, freedom in Christ, does in no way apply to circumventing God having closed our womb.  Asking God to open it isn't circumventing it, but is another issue unto itself.  Your third sentence stated: ACCORDING TO HIS WILL.  This would then prove that we haven't asked according to His will, if the womb is not yet open.  To then persue "forcing" it open by fertility treatments is flat out slapping God in the face, so-to-speak.  Hebrews 4:16 is applicable, too, but does not permit us to ignore God's clear action in us physically, does it?

Thanks for your reply, bro.  I fully appreciate that you use the Word.

larry2

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Re: fertility
« Reply #3 on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 - 09:56:24 »

Dear Son, all I can do is take the will of God as being for me. The trial of my faith is certainly the possibility in anything in my life. That again does not preclude me from going to God about it. Paul sought the Lord three times concerning the thorn he bore.

I had a pastor that I believe exhibited more faith in physical healing than any man I have ever known. He survived a chemical burning away of his flesh I believe it was nine times, and at that time was the oldest human to survive that, and while in suffering above description preached four different services per week. He knew the testing of God and praised him in everything he did, and indeed went through so many healings of his body. One day it came to my attention that he wore glasses and had false teeth with all faith he had, and I asked his son about it to not be a smart aleck. He said that his dad did not have the faith for that and that was that, and it satisfied me.

I wear glasses also, I've had teeth repaired, and I have probably failed God where they didn't. Did I ask God about the different things He allowed in my life? You bet, but I bought glasses to occupy on my job, and when the pain of a tooth became unbearable I had it corrected. I do not think it wrong to trust God to use doctors in our lives even though I have seen instant healings of personal friends. I have prayed when a friend's child fell one whole floor into a basement on his head, come up with his head bent to the side as if with a broken neck, and immediately straighten his head and begin crying. If he had not been healed I would have helped take him to the hospital.

I have read that when Jesus healed, one was healed in the way, another by dipping in a river, rubbing spit laden clay in the eyes, and a servant healed by just speaking the word. There is no prescribed way the Lord is relegated to follow in our healing, and unless directed by God otherwise I will take advantage of the things He made possible to me. I still may be missing your thoughts here, but hope I've made myself clearer.

God bless you in Jesus' name - larry2

 

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Re: fertility
« Reply #3 on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 - 09:56:24 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

son of God

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Re: fertility
« Reply #4 on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 - 10:44:45 »
Thanks, Larry2.

I like your candor and openness.  How refreshing it is to me.

Yes, I think that you miss the point, good brother.  Utilizing doctors isn't wrong.  Buy why do we utilize them, and when, and for what?  Is there not a huge difference between taking God's answer, and in this issue it is a closed womb, and not accepting it and thus going to a doctor to "fix" the problem?  The Word doesn't state that God is lord of your vision, so if you have poor eyesight, God has given it to you because of sin.  The pharisees were crazy on this sort of thing, demanding that the person with an ailment sinned, or their parents, and thus they were to live with the ailment.  Foolish indeed.  In like manner, on the other side of the coin, is the belief that God isn't Lord of the womb, that He doesn't close it or open it.  The Word expressly states this to be true regarding the womb.  Therefore, to go to a doctor for treatment in order to open the womb, is to sidestep God's having closed it.    There is a discussion on speeding, so to use the prevelant logic for fertility treatment, should we not use radar detectors so that we can speed?  I think that you see the problem with the logic as evidenced.

When the Word states that it is God who controls the womb, we should indeed ask Him why He has closed the womb.  We can also ask Him to open it.  If He doesn't, who are we to then go to a doctor so that HE can open it?!!!  We say one thing with our mouth, but with our actions we decry it.  That is hypocrisy as stated in the Word.  It is also a carnal mind, as stated in the Word.  You know these things, friend.  "Who has so easily bewitched you?"  It's a simple case of A + B = C.  By their fruits you shall know them.  "Acknowledge the Lord in ALL your ways, and He shall mke your paths straight."

Christ healed in many ways.  God has opened wombs upon request.  We see in the Word that when a person circumvented God in the closed womb, His blessing was not upon it even though He allowed them to circumvent Him in it.  We also see the incredible grief that it brought about.  God does not change.  How can we expect Him to bless us, or the fruit of the womb, when we have circumvented Him, even after asking Him to open the womb and He didn't?  "You ask and receive not, because you ask amiss."  Why do people argue with God?  "by your works you make Him out to be a liar"  "let God be true, and every man a liar"  "Awake to righteousness, and sin not."

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Re: fertility
« Reply #4 on: Fri Sep 04, 2009 - 10:44:45 »



Offline yesult

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Re: fertility
« Reply #5 on: Sat Sep 05, 2009 - 07:58:43 »
'son of god' are you really looking for answers to your questions when you post them or  a chance to argue?



son of God

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Re: fertility
« Reply #6 on: Mon Sep 07, 2009 - 20:08:25 »
What did Christ do?  Did He ever give questions in order to point something out?   ::doh::

Offline Corbley

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Re: fertility
« Reply #7 on: Mon Sep 07, 2009 - 20:43:21 »
In a quandry -- I read the bible as stating that: 1) God is in control of the womb, to shut it or open it 2) God says that miscarriage is a judgment from Him 3) God says that dry breasts are a judgment from Him.  So what's the quandry?  A) I see that we Christians agree with #1 and are typically ignorant of #'s 2 & 3, but then spend all sorts of money and time and emotion and prayer for success while using fertility treatments.  Isn't this hypocritical?  Or does the Word somewhere say to do this?  B)  The scriptures also state that we have the mind of Christ.  If so, then why do we do/pray these things in these situations?  Isn't this also hypicritical?  Or maybe I'm just a wacko that's all confused.  If you can clarify/rectify this situation for me, I'd appreciate it.
I know the answer:    It is because they put their own desires above Gods word.

You are not wrong........I think, many Christians stop after they accept Christ......And perhaps just saying the words is not enough.    You can say it with your mouth...But Christ wants to hear it from your heart.

Perhaps then, people would RESPECT Gods laws

Offline phoebe

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Re: fertility
« Reply #8 on: Mon Sep 07, 2009 - 21:58:21 »
In a quandry -- I read the bible as stating that: 1) God is in control of the womb, to shut it or open it 2) God says that miscarriage is a judgment from Him 3) God says that dry breasts are a judgment from Him.  So what's the quandry?  A) I see that we Christians agree with #1 and are typically ignorant of #'s 2 & 3, but then spend all sorts of money and time and emotion and prayer for success while using fertility treatments.  Isn't this hypocritical?  Or does the Word somewhere say to do this?  B)  The scriptures also state that we have the mind of Christ.  If so, then why do we do/pray these things in these situations?  Isn't this also hypicritical?  Or maybe I'm just a wacko that's all confused.  If you can clarify/rectify this situation for me, I'd appreciate it.

 ::headscratch::   ::frown:: 

 

     
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