Author Topic: Giants  (Read 13524 times)

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Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Giants
« Reply #385 on: Mon Aug 15, 2022 - 10:10:16 »
Science in the Dark Ages?  ::headscratch::

They're called the Dark Ages because they lack science.  The Dark Ages are what happens when the church decides it knows everything and suppresses attempts to discover anything new.

I never mentioned "science in the dark ages."  I mentioned how those a few hundred years might look at what we believe now as though we were in the dark ages.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #386 on: Mon Aug 15, 2022 - 11:43:12 »
You have no idea what time or anything else does in what we call a black hole....
We have pretty good idea about time just outside of a black hole near the event horizon. Measuring time from the outside it appears to pass slower and slower for any item as it approaches the black hole.

https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/2016/01/19/time-inside-black-hole/

If a clock could survive in a black hole, would time stand still inside the black hole? What would space-time be like?
The answer is kind of boring since we do not have physics to describe the inside of black holes, the official answer is “we don’t know”. We can speculate given what happens right at the edge of the black hole though.

The first thing to state is: who (i.e., which observer) is asking? If the person asking is standing outside the black hole looking at a clock falling towards the event horizon, then the clock appears to move slower as it approaches the black hole… and actually, it would never fall inside the black hole because time gets infinitely slow at the event horizon. If the person asking is attached to the clock, then everything looks normal, time runs normally. Actually, general relativity says that the event horizon can be crossed and time would keep running exactly in the same way.
General relativity also says that the density of the black hole is infinite because its volume is formally zero – it is a singularity. For a static black hole, the singularity is a point, while for a rotating black hole, it is a ring, but still with zero volume. The thing is, quantum physics does not allow such precise numbers, so there must be something else actually happening there, but we still don’t have the physics to describe such a state.

Dr. Eva Noyola

UT Austin
« Last Edit: Mon Aug 15, 2022 - 11:45:54 by 4WD »

Offline Amo

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Re: Giants
« Reply #387 on: Mon Aug 15, 2022 - 12:28:38 »
We have pretty good idea about time just outside of a black hole near the event horizon. Measuring time from the outside it appears to pass slower and slower for any item as it approaches the black hole.

https://askanastronomer.org/bhc/2016/01/19/time-inside-black-hole/

If a clock could survive in a black hole, would time stand still inside the black hole? What would space-time be like?
The answer is kind of boring since we do not have physics to describe the inside of black holes, the official answer is “we don’t know”. We can speculate given what happens right at the edge of the black hole though.

The first thing to state is: who (i.e., which observer) is asking? If the person asking is standing outside the black hole looking at a clock falling towards the event horizon, then the clock appears to move slower as it approaches the black hole… and actually, it would never fall inside the black hole because time gets infinitely slow at the event horizon. If the person asking is attached to the clock, then everything looks normal, time runs normally. Actually, general relativity says that the event horizon can be crossed and time would keep running exactly in the same way.
General relativity also says that the density of the black hole is infinite because its volume is formally zero – it is a singularity. For a static black hole, the singularity is a point, while for a rotating black hole, it is a ring, but still with zero volume. The thing is, quantum physics does not allow such precise numbers, so there must be something else actually happening there, but we still don’t have the physics to describe such a state.

Dr. Eva Noyola

UT Austin


I'll just stick to the frank admission above as in "we don't know". "Scientists" have and do continue to be wrong about things right here in front of their faces, making corrections time and again, let alone concerting such as black  holes far beyond our present reach.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #388 on: Mon Aug 15, 2022 - 13:31:22 »
"Scientists" have and do continue to be wrong about things right here in front of their faces...
....as do so many self-proclaiming authorities (like you} about things in God's word.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #388 on: Mon Aug 15, 2022 - 13:31:22 »

Offline Alan

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Re: Giants
« Reply #389 on: Mon Aug 15, 2022 - 20:20:28 »
I'll just stick to the frank admission above as in "we don't know". "Scientists" have and do continue to be wrong about things right here in front of their faces, making corrections time and again, let alone concerting such as black  holes far beyond our present reach.


You're not entirely wrong. Science is often a work in progress, but by no means is it on the side of error that would result in YEC claims being correct.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #390 on: Tue Aug 16, 2022 - 07:01:18 »

 but by no means is it on the side of error that would result in YEC claims being correct.

While I tend to agree with you somewhat... the result... from science.... would not necessarily result in YEC claims being wrong.

YEC creation people generally live their lives in faith and belief that all that is needed for their point of view is the Holy Bible.

Science usually cannot provide concrete evidence that YEC is wrong because they live their lives in speculation.

NO... I do not think I am wrong.

I am one of the inbetweens. Knowing the Holy Words are accurate as far as the translators can be believed, but seeing things the translators translated as indicating they either missed something correctly either by misunderstanding Divine Inspiration or because Divine Inspiration either felt it not necessary to be so specific ( as to confuse the people or it not being needed for the message and teachings within the 4 courners of the Holy Bible.)

I personally have not question that there were giants on the earth at some point (That is biblical) And very large animals.

What I have trouble with is why there are scant few skeletal remain from the animals and hardly any for the people.

I have difficulty with them dating the age of the earth and then they tell us that the earth is younger then the Universe.

All the while expounding on their "big bang" stuff.

Could earth be younger.  Certainly... but then that gets closer to my beliefs for the reason why ::tippinghat::

Well... I have said enough

Just know that science is obviously more wrong then right. When they spout off with their ideas of everything but cannot even come up with medial helps for things like Covid and such... either to wipe it out or to actually immunize people against they just are guessing

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Re: Giants
« Reply #391 on: Tue Aug 16, 2022 - 18:01:21 »
Science has no interest in what YEC pseudo-science says, and yes, with very little effort most of the bizarre claims of YEC can be easily dismissed.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #392 on: Tue Aug 16, 2022 - 21:11:30 »
YEC creation people generally live their lives in faith and belief that all that is needed for their point of view is the Holy Bible.
It took you only 2 sentences to identify their error.  You are far ahead of Amo and the answers-in-Genesis crowd.

Science usually cannot provide concrete evidence that YEC is wrong because they live their lives in speculation.
No.  Don't buy into the spin put out by the YEC crowd.  What is labeled a theory in science is not speculative, but something well-established logically and well-tested.  It is the second-highest level of certitude that science awards.  Science is not about speculation; it is about testing to prove/disprove.

I personally have not question that there were giants on the earth at some point (That is biblical) And very large animals.

What I have trouble with is why there are scant few skeletal remain from the animals and hardly any for the people.
I think science and the Bible agree on very large animals.  As for giants, that is probably a question of the frame-of-reference.  People have been getting taller throughout history due to improving nutrition.  A giant 3000 years ago may have been someone six and a half feet tall.

Just know that science is obviously more wrong then right. When they spout off with their ideas of everything but cannot even come up with medial helps for things like Covid and such... either to wipe it out or to actually immunize people against they just are guessing.
That's not inability; it's malevolence.  The pharmaceutical industry engineered and propagated a home-made virus, just so that they could sell a therapeutic medicine while advertising it as a vaccine.  That's a high degree of ability, just used for bad instead of good.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #393 on: Wed Aug 17, 2022 - 15:18:46 »
It took you only 2 sentences to identify their error.  You are far ahead of Amo and the answers-in-Genesis crowd.

No.  Don't buy into the spin put out by the YEC crowd.  What is labeled a theory in science is not speculative, but something well-established logically and well-tested.  It is the second-highest level of certitude that science awards.  Science is not about speculation; it is about testing to prove/disprove
.

By what are you claiming well tested of things that have no true time reference that we can count on from the Holy Scriptures
and Genesis 2. Yes I skipped Genesis 1 completely and I start my biblical time line with Adam being formed of God.


Are you basing things on things like... carbon dating, for simplicity... because that  has gone from being the end all that is all to other things they claim are better or it is not viable.  ( no... I dont want to get into that cause I admittedly am not up to speed with things like dating that I was 20 years ago)

Quote
I think science and the Bible agree on very large animals.  As for giants, that is probably a question of the frame-of-reference.  People have been getting taller throughout history due to improving nutrition.  A giant 3000 years ago may have been someone six and a half feet tall.

Question. Do you think the Holy Bible, when inspired,... for I am not convinced every word was... and certainly not the sentence and grammar construction...  but when it truly was inspired was actually the words or thoughts from God to the scribes, or do you think a thought came to their minds ( much like a vision or dream) and they interpreted what they felt to be correct?

We are told

Deuteronomy 1:28
28 Where can we go? Our brothers have made our hearts melt in fear. They say, ‘The people are stronger and taller than we are; the cities are large, with walls up to the sky. We even saw the Anakites there.’ ”

Deuteronomy 3:11
11 (Og king of Bashan was the last of the Rephaites. His bed was decorated with iron and was more than nine cubits long and four cubits wide. It is still in Rabbah of the Ammonites.)

That's not inability; it's malevolence.  The pharmaceutical industry engineered and propagated a home-made virus, just so that they could sell a therapeutic medicine while advertising it as a vaccine.  That's a high degree of ability, just used for bad instead of good.

Isaiah 40:22
22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Numbers 13:33
33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”

Deuteronomy 2:10-12
10 (The Emites used to live there—a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites.

So you feel these larger people are just taller but not giants?

Consider this and I shall stop.[/size]

When God talked to Moses

21 And the Lord said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

I envision a very large singular hand that could shield Moses..... Far larger then a normal man.

God may be a giant Himself. Also and this will bring the comments I know but the man and woman in Genesis 1 may have been made larger then Adam, for a different purpose.

« Last Edit: Wed Aug 17, 2022 - 16:32:10 by Wycliffes_Shillelagh »

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Re: Giants
« Reply #394 on: Wed Aug 17, 2022 - 16:47:50 »
By what are you claiming well tested of things that have no true time reference that we can count on from the Holy Scriptures
and Genesis 2. Yes I skipped Genesis 1 completely and I start my biblical time line with Adam being formed of God.


Are you basing things on things like... carbon dating, for simplicity... because that  has gone from being the end all that is all to other things they claim are better or it is not viable.  ( no... I dont want to get into that cause I admittedly am not up to speed with things like dating that I was 20 years ago)
I don't want to get into that either.  I'm not a scientist.

But even I know, a scientific theory isn't some schmuck's guess that he scribbled on the bathroom stall (i.e. on the Internet).  It's a sourced scholarly article with citations that is peer-reviewed before being published.

Question. Do you think the Holy Bible, when inspired,... for I am not convinced every word was... and certainly not the sentence and grammar construction...  but when it truly was inspired was actually the words or thoughts from God to the scribes, or do you think a thought came to their minds ( much like a vision or dream) and they interpreted what they felt to be correct?
Some of both.  I think the Bible does a fair job of telling us who is speaking.  When God is speaking, the text introduces it as God speaking.  Other times, it introduces it as "the Word of the Lord by the prophet Daniel (or whoever)."  And other times, it does neither and just reads as history, which is to say it isn't inspired.

We are told

Deuteronomy 1:28
28 Where can we go? Our brothers have made our hearts melt in fear. They say, ‘The people are stronger and taller than we are; the cities are large, with walls up to the sky. We even saw the Anakites there.’ ”

Deuteronomy 3:11
11 (Og king of Bashan was the last of the Rephaites. His bed was decorated with iron and was more than nine cubits long and four cubits wide. It is still in Rabbah of the Ammonites.)
Yes.  But those "walls up to the sky" still exist as mounds being excavated by archaeologists, and we know they were only 30-ish feet tall.  And a cubit is measured from the fingertips to the elbow, so its significantly smaller for someone who's 5'2" than someone who's 6'6".

Isaiah 40:22
22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

Numbers 13:33
33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”

Deuteronomy 2:10-12
10 (The Emites used to live there—a people strong and numerous, and as tall as the Anakites.

So you feel these larger people are just taller but not giants?
"People who are bigger" is the definition of a giant.  Is Shaq a giant?  I'd say yes.  They don't need to be 15' tall to be giants.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #395 on: Fri Aug 19, 2022 - 10:01:24 »
In the end, all science so called, and scientists who have contradicted the word of God, will bend the knee and confess their sin in placing their own vain imaginations above the word of God. All those who have declared the evidences presented by bible believers backing up the bibles account of creation and the global flood to be false, pseudo, or non science, will confess their guilt for doing so before God and all humanity.

All sciences so called which contradict a plain thus saith the Lord, will be proved to be the deception and vain imaginings of fallen humanity which they are. Those who have claimed to be these "authorities of truth", will be revealed as the ignorant, self important impostures of deception that they are.

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. 10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: 11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.


The word of God is living and active, it accomplishes that which God pleases. At Creation it accomplished what God spoke, as testified in six days. As God Himself testified again in word from His own mouth and written twice with His own finger in tables of stone, to the entire nation of Israel. God does not lie, or tell exaggerating stories, and command everyone to believe and be obedient to such. People do lie, and tell exaggerated stories to exalt themselves. The theory of deep time evolution is one of those lies, which sets it's believers up above the word and testimony of God Himself. A very dangerous habit. Worse yet, those who believe it claim that those who believe God's word, cannot even begin to be considered people of science. That is proponents of factual observable truth.

Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabitants of earth.

Rev 8:6 And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. 7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. 8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; 9  and the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. 10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. 12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. 13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. 6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. 7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. 8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. 9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. 10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months. 11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. 12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. 13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, 14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. 15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. 16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. 17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. 18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. 19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt. 20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: 21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Rev 10:1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: 2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, 3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. 4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. 5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. 8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. 9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. 10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. 11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings..................

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. 19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.


What is the ark of God's testament in the temple of God?

Exo 25:16 And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee. 17 And thou shalt make a mercy seat of pure gold: two cubits and a half shall be the length thereof, and a cubit and a half the breadth thereof. 18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: even of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. 20 And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. 21 And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. 22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

Deu 10:1 At that time the LORD said unto me, Hew thee two tables of stone like unto the first, and come up unto me into the mount, and make thee an ark of wood. 2 And I will write on the tables the words that were in the first tables which thou brakest, and thou shalt put them in the ark. 3 And I made an ark of shittim wood, and hewed two tables of stone like unto the first, and went up into the mount, having the two tables in mine hand. 4 And he wrote on the tables, according to the first writing, the ten commandments, which the LORD spake unto you in the mount out of the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly: and the LORD gave them unto me. 5 And I turned myself and came down from the mount, and put the tables in the ark which I had made; and there they be, as the LORD commanded me.


The ark of the testament or testimony contains the Ten commandments of God. By which all of humanity shall be judged. All who reject the truth or authority of any of those commandments, shall be condemned by them. Including the fourth, which the world and even most of "Christianty" rejects today. Rejecting both the truth and authority of the same. These words spoken by the mouth of God Himself and written with His own finger for humanity. The theory of deep time evolution is a false religion and intellectual idol of fallen humanities vain imaginnings. It's false tree of life is just that. It's end is death, not life. Those who submit to this false tree of life deception in place of the commandments or fourth commandment of God, will have no right to the true tree of life in heaven unto eternal life.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. 16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

« Last Edit: Fri Aug 19, 2022 - 10:06:42 by Amo »

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Re: Giants
« Reply #396 on: Fri Aug 19, 2022 - 12:32:00 »
All sciences so called which contradict a plain thus saith the Lord, will be proved to be the deception and vain imaginings of fallen humanity which they are. Those who have claimed to be these "authorities of truth", will be revealed as the ignorant, self important impostures of deception that they are.
All theologies so called which contradict a plain thus saith the Lord, will be proved to be the deception and vain imaginings of fallen humanity which they are. Those who have claimed to be these "authorities of truth", will be revealed as the ignorant, self important impostures of deception that they are.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #397 on: Fri Aug 19, 2022 - 20:44:11 »
All theologies so called which contradict a plain thus saith the Lord, will be proved to be the deception and vain imaginings of fallen humanity which they are. Those who have claimed to be these "authorities of truth", will be revealed as the ignorant, self important impostures of deception that they are.

So be it unto us, as we have both declared, when we stand before God on that great day.

Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Offline Amo

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Re: Giants
« Reply #398 on: Sat Sep 17, 2022 - 18:22:31 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlPq2-_TAu8

More questions regarding present time line narratives, in relation to obvious ruins from the flood.

Offline Amo

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Re: Giants
« Reply #399 on: Sat Sep 17, 2022 - 18:24:59 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWByKmdYB2U

More about out of time and place technology.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #400 on: Yesterday at 01:59:20 »
Quote
It took you only 2 sentences to identify their error.  You are far ahead of Amo and the answers-in-Genesis crowd.

If you feel you need something beyond the Bible to live out your "faith," such as science, you are not nearly as advanced, spiritually, as you believe yourself to be.  You are actually several steps behind people who do not require today's psuedo science to have faith in something.  Science works actively to attempt to prove God does not exists.  Science in it's purest sense has not always operated on this basis.  But since the Enlightenment, science has actively worked to eradicate faith and the concept of God.  When you make posts as some of the ones you made above, denigrating people who do not believe as you do, you actively participate in secular society's goal of eradicating religion.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #401 on: Yesterday at 06:33:53 »
You are actually several steps behind people who do not require today's psuedo science to have faith in something.
What is pseudo science?
Quote from: Cobalt
Science works actively to attempt to prove God does not exists.
Where did you ever get such an idea?  It is completely wrong.  There may indeed be some scientists that do not believe in God, but that has nothing to do with science.
Quote from: Cobalt
Science in it's purest sense has not always operated on this basis.
And what in the world is "science in it's purest sense"? 
Quote from: Cobalt
But since the Enlightenment, science has actively worked to eradicate faith and the concept of God. 
Another totally asinine statement.
Quote from: Cobalt
When you make posts as some of the ones you made above, denigrating people who do not believe as you do, you actively participate in secular society's goal of eradicating religion.
I truly believe that people who, being seriously scientifically challenged, make statements such as you have here have done more to eradicate faith in God than all those nasty scientists that you apparently abhor.

Offline Amo

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Re: Giants
« Reply #402 on: Yesterday at 09:01:23 »
Quote
I truly believe that people who, being seriously scientifically challenged, make statements such as you have here have done more to eradicate faith in God than all those nasty scientists that you apparently abhor.

Same old, same old. As if those who view science as separated from scripture as a foundational building block of observation and conclusion, are "scientifically" superior, while those who do such are "scientifically" challenged. According to what authority are you so superior in understanding 4WD? We've been through this before. I can and have presented YEC scientists with far greater supposed "scientific credentials" of this world than you will ever have. Are they all scientifically challenged simply because you and your demigod's of deep time evolutionary theory say so? Simply because their world view is based upon scriptures, and those of your chosen faith are not?

The bottom line is simple enough. What are deep time evolutionists, but just the leaders of another faith, claiming superiority of intellect above all others in their boisterous claims because of some learning in their own specific fields of study. Which they apply as they see fit to their own understanding or faith. Nevertheless, the basics are just that, and these individuals are no wiser than any of the rest of us concerning them. The world is covered from one end to the other with countless and ever increasingly discovered small, medium, and massive graveyards of obvious extinction level event or events. Some refuse the biblical testimony regarding the reason for this most abundant evidence everywhere. Others do not. Both consider the others ignorant according to their chosen faiths regarding this evidence. One side however denies that their observations are built upon faith, while the others freely admit of the same. And there you have it in a nut shell. The same underlying core beliefs are what determine the many other observations each applies to their chosen faiths.

We can all see the same evidence, and even acknowledge this or that observable fact about them, but we will apply them differently according to our faiths. It is not always a matter of ignorance or apparent superior intellect as so often claimed, as though such knowledge was so far out of reach of the average Joe, but simple disagreement regarding one's faith. Yes some are truly ignorant, and some are truly self important and believe they actually are intellectually superior to all those who disagree with them. These are the exceptions though, not the rule. YEC's are not scientifically challenged, they are simply of another faith. Nor are deep time evolutionists of superior intellect but in their own minds perhaps, but simply of a different, perhaps more popular faith today.

Both form and submit theories according to their faiths. Some are good and withstand the tests of time and increased knowledge, many are not and do not. Neither is necessarily intellectually or scientifically challenged or superior. They are simply of different faiths or disciplines if you will. If anything ends up being superior or inferior, it will be between the faiths chosen, not actual intellect of this or that person. As for me, I will stand by scriptural testimony as the superior faith.

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #403 on: Yesterday at 09:30:21 »
If you feel you need something beyond the Bible to live out your "faith," such as science, you are not nearly as advanced, spiritually, as you believe yourself to be.  You are actually several steps behind people who do not require today's psuedo science to have faith in something.  Science works actively to attempt to prove God does not exists.  Science in it's purest sense has not always operated on this basis.  But since the Enlightenment, science has actively worked to eradicate faith and the concept of God.  When you make posts as some of the ones you made above, denigrating people who do not believe as you do, you actively participate in secular society's goal of eradicating religion.

Wait a minute.

First this is a silly statement

"If you feel you need something beyond the Bible to live out your "faith," such as science, you are not nearly as advanced, spiritually, as you believe yourself to be.

Why? Because the unfortunate fact of life... if you have not noticed ... is that we are alive in a world that has existed long before anyone here was ever thought of. IT IS because of that that there are things... primarily of the past that the Holy Bible does not explain.

Why? My belief is that it is totally irrelevant to why were are here and where we will be going in eternity.

And therefore has ZERO to do with faith of any kind. NOT Christianity, Muslim, Buddhist or any other.

That does not mean that we have to live in a bubble lacking curiosity.

If it was not for some scientist way back when... who came up with a vaccine against polio... how many people on here... maybe you would have been cripples all your life?

You are going to say a doctor is not a scientist.... WRONG

A scientist is a person who conducts scientific research to advance knowledge in an area of interest.

Curing the human body is an area of interest to many.

Can medical scientists be wrong.

You only have to look at Fauci ( And Birx) to know they can. Yet he still has his main interest in gain of function.

Does wanting to cure the human body go against God? Against Christianity? Against Faith? NO

So going in another direction and that is the history of things...

YOU have such by the very nature of your Christian faith and what you have endeavored to know and understand that comes from the HAND BOOK that God gave us.... The Holy Bible and What is in the four corners thereof.

But ... and not to be crude... stop and think what the bible does tell us.

It said... go and multiply.... All the way back in Genesis...

What does the bible not tell us.

HOW. There is no blueprint on how to conceive... and if it were not for scientists somewhere in history women would not even know when they were ovulating.....

And there are no instructions of manner and form ... and as far as we know intention was that all would mate like the animals....

Dont dare get into Solomon cause it is not mating specific... just forplay specific.

So when the subject comes up such as Giants....

You have not even said if you have a belief in them or not.

I posed the question long ago about why there were no skeletons found... and have only read stories about how they somehow disappeared from the Smithsonian... etc.

BUT they are mentioned in the bible..... usually under a Nephilim reference.

There are those who say the term simply describes tall people. 

Deuteronony talks of OG

Wiki says..
Deuteronomy 3:11 declares that his "bedstead" (translated in some texts as "sarcophagus") of iron is "nine cubits in length and four cubits in width", which is 13.5 by 6 feet (4.1 by 1.8 m) according to the standard cubit of a man.

To need a sarcophagus 13.5 feet by 6 feet is for a pretty tall man.

It is said  King Og was at least 11-feet tall, yet some claim up to 18. (I doubt 18 unless his legs were bent in his sarcophagus.
Or unless they broke his legs like  Pilate's command to the soldiers to break the legs of the thieves, to be sure they were dead?)

Goliath was 6 cubits and a span... that translates to around 9 feet 9 inches.

Both of these men were far above just very tall people we might commonly see today.

But you have the scientists that come in the form of archaeologists, historians, physicists, astronomers etc.

You cannot uncategorical claim every one of these fields of study is an affront to the Christian faith.

Without question I personally believe their claim of the age of the universe is wrong.... and without question I personally believe that Adam of the Garden of Eden was not the first man God made.

But I would challenge my faith to be every bit as strong as yours.

Do I follow along the explorations of all things in space. YES.

NOT to find the age of the earth or to see what they may find UFO wise...

NO... I am totally fascinated by what we have seen out there by way of shapes and colors.

Every planet or anything else they send pictures back are individual and as special as the one you are living on.

A plethora of colors... because they are all individually composed differently...

And this picture ( I could post dozens upon dozens of the differences seen ) is of our neighbors....

All created by the master of all time... Our Lord God.... what a vision He had/has.... it gives me goose bumps to know his artistry and what we now... because of some scientists can enjoy.


The planets of the solar system are varied in their appearance. Mercury is slate gray while Venus is pearly white, Earth a vibrant blue, and Mars a dusky red. Even the gas giants are different, Neptune and Uranus an opaque blue, while Jupiter and Saturn are mostly beige with brilliant red-brown belts.

jpeg-PIA03153" border="0

So many pictures showing the beauty He created... just for our Galaxy.... can be seen here

https://www.istockphoto.com/photos/planets-in-solar-system

Well, I digress yet again so I will stop.

Final comment....

There is nothing wrong with wanting to know more about what God has given to us.

It takes nothing away from our faith.

Those who are agnostic or atheist never had faith to begin with but I believe God has used them to show us his grandeur.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #404 on: Yesterday at 09:56:23 »
Same old, same old. As if those who view science as separated from scripture as a foundational building block of observation and conclusion, are "scientifically" superior, while those who do such are "scientifically" challenged.
I have never made such a statement.  I have never ever suggested that anyone view science as separated from scripture. I have said on several occasions those, such as you, who are nearly devoid of any scientific knowledge are indeed scientifically challenged.
Quote from:
According to what authority are you so superior in understanding 4WD? We've been through this before. I can and have presented YEC scientists with far greater supposed "scientific credentials" of this world than you will ever have. Are they all scientifically challenged simply because you and your demigod's of deep time evolutionary theory say so? Simply because their world view is based upon scriptures, and those of your chosen faith are not?
My chosen faith?  I certainly would not bow to you in any sense of faith in God and His word.  I have no doubt whatsoever that my faith in God is every bit as sincere and deep as yours.
Quote from: Amo
The bottom line is simple enough.
Yes, it is.  And that is that you haven't a clue about what you rage on and on about when it comes to things scientific. 
Quote from: Amo
As for me, I will stand by scriptural testimony as the superior faith.
That is simply not true.  What you stand by as superior faith is your particular translation/interpretation of scripture.  As far as you are concerned, any who would disagree with you on just about anything scriptural is a non-believer.
Quote from: Amo
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Notice what it says.  It is talking about being made "wise unto salvation" and "instruction in righteousness".  There is absolutely nothing in that passage that would you make you "wise unto or instructed in science".  That you would so interpret it only shows how far out, scripturally, you really are.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 09:59:11 by 4WD »

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Re: Giants
« Reply #405 on: Yesterday at 10:07:35 »
I have never made such a statement.  I have never ever suggested that anyone view science as separated from scripture. I have said on several occasions those, such as you, who are nearly devoid of any scientific knowledge are indeed scientifically challenged. My chosen faith?  I certainly would not bow to you in any sense of faith in God and His word.  I have no doubt whatsoever that my faith in God is every bit as sincere and deep as yours. Yes, it is.  And that is that you haven't a clue about what you rage on and on about when it comes to things scientific.  That is simply not true.  What you stand by as superior faith is your particular translation/interpretation of scripture.  As far as you are concerned, any who would disagree with you on just about anything scriptural is a non-believer.  Notice what it says.  It is talking about being made "wise unto salvation" and "instruction in righteousness".  There is absolutely nothing in that passage that would you make you "wise unto or instructed in science".  That you would so interpret it only shows how far out, scripturally, you really are.

Like I said, same old, same old. I don't have a clue, but 4WD does and is the authority to tell me so, apparently. According to the authority of himself as well, apparently. It is not my translation 4WD, it is every translation that anyone has ever put forth. Correct me if I am wrong by showing us a translation anywhere which says what you have chosen to believe. It does not exist anywhere in scripture. Not to mention, you yourself will not even make a conclusive statement regarding exactly what you believe. We do not even know this, but only that you do not accept what scripture simply states, as translated by every translator, thus far at least that I know. Again, please do provide evidence to the contrary, if in fact there are translations I do not know of.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #406 on: Yesterday at 10:18:01 »
Like I said, same old, same old. I don't have a clue, but 4WD does and is the authority to tell me so, apparently. According to the authority of himself as well, apparently. It is not my translation 4WD, it is every translation that anyone has ever put forth. Correct me if I am wrong by showing us a translation anywhere which says what you have chosen to believe. It does not exist anywhere in scripture. Not to mention, you yourself will not even make a conclusive statement regarding exactly what you believe. We do not even know this, but only that you do not accept what scripture simply states, as translated by every translator, thus far at least that I know. Again, please do provide evidence to the contrary, if in fact there are translations I do not know of.
It is not difficult to find many authoritative sources who interpret the Hebrew word, "yom" translated "day" in English, to mean something other than today's 24-hour period of time.  I have presented a few of those in the past, some even being Hebrew scholars; but of course, you reject any such scholarly views.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #407 on: Yesterday at 11:13:15 »
It is not difficult to find many authoritative sources who interpret the Hebrew word, "yom" translated "day" in English, to mean something other than today's 24-hour period of time.  I have presented a few of those in the past, some even being Hebrew scholars; but of course, you reject any such scholarly views.

There are people who interpret it as such, which some may consider authoritative, but there is no bible translation expressing the idea. There is a reason for that. Not the least of which is the fourth commandment, no doubt.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #408 on: Yesterday at 11:31:35 »
There are people who interpret it as such, which some may consider authoritative, but there is no bible translation expressing the idea.
[/size]There is no Bible translation expressing the idea that the earth revolves around the sun, and there are plenty to suggest otherwise.  But few doubt the actual truth is found in the science..

So your argument is completely invalid.

Offline Amo

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Re: Giants
« Reply #409 on: Yesterday at 12:33:02 »
[/size]There is no Bible translation expressing the idea that the earth revolves around the sun, and there are plenty to suggest otherwise.  But few doubt the actual truth is found in the science..

So your argument is completely invalid.

Apples and oranges. We are not talking about what the bible does not say, we are talking about what the bible does say. It does say that the world was created in six days. Several times over.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #410 on: Yesterday at 14:40:15 »
It is not difficult to find many authoritative sources who interpret the Hebrew word, "yom" translated "day" in English, to mean something other than today's 24-hour period of time.  I have presented a few of those in the past, some even being Hebrew scholars; but of course, you reject any such scholarly views.

Good afternoon 4WD,

May I assume that based on what I bolded and colored in your reply to Amo that you do believe, without much hesitancy , that
you  accept the scholarly views of those you suggested?

Please tell me if the following  somewhat sums up what you believe... more or less, for this is not from me it is from another who will be revealed in due time with the source as I will list it all... in the hopes that you and also AMO will read in full.

"Contrary to what is often implied or claimed by young-earth creationists, the Bible nowhere directly teaches the age of the earth.

"I want to suggest there are some good, textual reasons—in the creation account itself—for questioning the exegesis that insists on the days as strict 24 hour periods. Am I as certain of this as I am of the resurrection of Christ? Definitely not. But in some segments of the church, I fear that we’ve built an exegetical “fence around the Torah,” fearful that if we question any aspect of young-earth dogmatics we have opened the gate to liberalism. The defenders of inerrancy above show that this is not the case. And a passion for sola Scriptura provides us with the humility and willingness to go back to the text again to see if these things are so.

"How long were God’s workdays? The Bible doesn’t say. But I see no reason to insist that they were only 24 hours long.

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Re: Giants
« Reply #411 on: Yesterday at 16:41:27 »
Rella,
I could go along with most of that.  Beyond that, I have presented articles by Gerold Schroeder to show how, through the theory of relativity, both the six 24-hour days of Genesis and the 13+ Billion years from science could both be literally true.  He has shown how the schedule of events over the 13+ Billion years as presented by modern-day science lines up very nearly one-to-one with the schedule laid out in the six creation days in Genesis.

 

     
anything