Author Topic: Let me be perfectly dumb here.  (Read 233 times)

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Offline Rella

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Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 12:18:54 »
Every two weeks we basically have had our isolation orders reaffirmed to allow mitigation of this stupid virus.

And every two weeks we basically are being told that our mitigation efforts are working.

The stupid virus has been climbing the mountain to the top and then leveling off in various timelines around the country.

NO... only talking about this country.

An now every two weeks we are basically being told how the positive tests are less and less and there is some talk of opening up some businesses in some of the states.  ::clappingoverhead::

I find it more then mildly amusing that this stupid virus seems to have a love fest with all the democratic states as those states
just cannot seem to lose it as fast as the republican states, but I digress.

People are tested... those with symptoms... ( I should be) .... I have had all the symptoms for at least 5 years.  That is the truth.

And less and less are showing positive. So as the decline is right around the corner, and we get to the point of being sent out to recess before having to be in lockdown again in the fall and winter....
 
Where does this stupid virus go until it is time for it to attack people once again?

If we all stayed in quarantine until there were zero positive cases  and then 2 to 3 weeks beyond those infected tested clear...
would the virus have died off to never return?  So where does it go?

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Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 12:18:54 »

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #1 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 13:05:59 »
We haven't really quarantined.  Quarantine would be complete isolation of an infected population until the virus was eradicated.

The point of lockdown was to give hospitals time to prepare for the worst.  "Flatten the curve."  That's fine.

After they got supplies and set up field hospitals, etc we are now told to "stop the spread."

You can't stop the spread when grocery stores and other stores are still open, and people are wandering around.  Further, if the virus can be aerosolized, and studies show that it can, anything beyond a N95 mask is highly ineffective at "stopping the spread."

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #2 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 14:21:01 »
It works just like any other epidemic.   It's a matter of how many infected people are out there at any give time, and how many contracts they make.   The 1918 influenza pandemic worked just like this one so for.    The news you don't want to hear is that quarantining and isolation worked somewhat, but when it was relaxed, the influenza came back and killed more people the second time around.

One thing we don't know is how prevalent asymptomatic carriers are.   The other joker in the deck is that we don't know for sure if recovering from the virus gives you good immunity from a second infection of it.


« Last Edit: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 14:23:07 by The Barbarian »

Offline chosenone

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #3 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 15:17:14 »
It works just like any other epidemic.   It's a matter of how many infected people are out there at any give time, and how many contracts they make.   The 1918 influenza pandemic worked just like this one so for.    The news you don't want to hear is that quarantining and isolation worked somewhat, but when it was relaxed, the influenza came back and killed more people the second time around.

One thing we don't know is how prevalent asymptomatic carriers are.   The other joker in the deck is that we don't know for sure if recovering from the virus gives you good immunity from a second infection of it.

That virus was in a different league, between 50 and 100 million died, and young people were very badly hit. Half of all deaths were people between the ages of 20 and 40.
« Last Edit: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 15:23:22 by chosenone »

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #3 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 15:17:14 »
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Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #4 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 15:36:51 »
It works just like any other epidemic.   It's a matter of how many infected people are out there at any give time, and how many contracts they make.   The 1918 influenza pandemic worked just like this one so for.    The news you don't want to hear is that quarantining and isolation worked somewhat, but when it was relaxed, the influenza came back and killed more people the second time around.

One thing we don't know is how prevalent asymptomatic carriers are.   The other joker in the deck is that we don't know for sure if recovering from the virus gives you good immunity from a second infection of it.

No, it isn't.  This is more like the flu in that it kills mostly older folks.  It's also far less deadly overall.

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #4 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 15:36:51 »



Offline Alan

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #5 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 17:07:25 »
I can't help think that 100 years ago we didn't have very sound advice for people that became ill with the flu and a deadly flu could have easily manifested from sheer lack of understanding. I'm old enough that I can remember friends that were very ill with the flu but they "sweated it out". That seemed to be the remedy at one time but as we know, it actually is the worst thing you can do to a high body temperature.
Hopefully those wive's tales are a thing of the past but you never know how some people treat sick people at home, what mom did always worked for them.

Offline Rella

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #6 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 18:53:05 »
I can't help think that 100 years ago we didn't have very sound advice for people that became ill with the flu and a deadly flu could have easily manifested from sheer lack of understanding. I'm old enough that I can remember friends that were very ill with the flu but they "sweated it out". That seemed to be the remedy at one time but as we know, it actually is the worst thing you can do to a high body temperature.
Hopefully those wive's tales are a thing of the past but you never know how some people treat sick people at home, what mom did always worked for them.

That was what they always did  for my fevers.

Make me sweat. And likely aspirin or anything the doc prescribed.

Truth be told.

If I had a fever...and can can well remember this.... As soon as I broke a sweat
the fever was broken. And I felt much better. Always within an hour. If not fully back to normal, would be maybe 99 or a hundred and then normal soon after.

Worked through all the childhood diseases.. the annual measles and chicken pox, and annual strep throats, and flues.

Offline chosenone

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #7 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 19:40:00 »
I can't help think that 100 years ago we didn't have very sound advice for people that became ill with the flu and a deadly flu could have easily manifested from sheer lack of understanding. I'm old enough that I can remember friends that were very ill with the flu but they "sweated it out". That seemed to be the remedy at one time but as we know, it actually is the worst thing you can do to a high body temperature.
Hopefully those wive's tales are a thing of the past but you never know how some people treat sick people at home, what mom did always worked for them.

Yes that was highly dangerous. Small children can get febrile convulsions if they are kept too hot. They need their bodies cool and not have bed clothes piled on them. Honestly, someone posted a photo of their child with covid 19, looking as red as a beetroot with a thick thick bed quilt on him. Wrong, you must keep their bodies cool and flannel them down with tepid water.

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #8 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 20:34:51 »
Quote
I can't help think that 100 years ago we didn't have very sound advice for people that became ill with the flu and a deadly flu could have easily manifested from sheer lack of understanding.

Yep.   Measles still can be a deadly disease, but in the 20th century, it became far less lethal as medical care improved.   Immunizations only furthered a decrease that was already underway.

So, it's hard to say.    Kids actually tolerate higher fevers than adults can handle (and they often run higher fevers than adults) ,  but febrile convulsions are always possible, and if they happen, they predispose the child to further episodes.


Offline mommydi

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #9 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 21:05:51 »
   Kids actually tolerate higher fevers than adults can handle (and they often run higher fevers than adults) ,  but febrile convulsions are always possible, and if they happen, they predispose the child to further episodes.
Children often run a higher fever than adults because the older we get, the more our bodies have trouble with regulating temperature. It's not uncommon for an elderly person to have a very serious bacterial infection but have no fever. Like they say - the older, the colder.




Offline mommydi

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #10 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 21:32:18 »
I can't help think that 100 years ago we didn't have very sound advice for people that became ill with the flu and a deadly flu could have easily manifested from sheer lack of understanding. I'm old enough that I can remember friends that were very ill with the flu but they "sweated it out". That seemed to be the remedy at one time but as we know, it actually is the worst thing you can do to a high body temperature.
Hopefully those wive's tales are a thing of the past but you never know how some people treat sick people at home, what mom did always worked for them.
Medical historians now believe more people with Spanish flu died from aspirin poisoning rather than the actual Spanish flu. Aspirin was the first and most common treatment for the Spanish flu, but doctors were prescribing toxic levels of aspirin which caused excess fluid in the lungs and death. Kind of reminds me of doctors putting coronavirus patients on ventilators which has actually turned into a death sentence for most patients on a vent. For whatever reason, they're now discovering oxygen delivered through a nasal cannulae is more effective and less lethal than an invasive ventilation device. Maybe any shortage of ventilators in the beginning of the pandemic actually saved lives.

When I was young, I'd spike really high fever from several bad bouts of tonsillitis. My mom would always pour rubbing/isopropanol alcohol over me to break the fever. Now they say children can get alcohol poisoning from that.

Offline mommydi

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #11 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 21:38:01 »
Speaking of fever - I have an appointment to get my hair cut and colored. My stylist sent out emails outlining procedures and precautions. We will have our temperature taken before we're allowed inside the salon. I guess that would help a bit on weeding out any active cases, but it sure won't weed out every case since people don't always have a fever with it.


Offline mommydi

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #12 on: Mon Apr 27, 2020 - 21:47:54 »
Kind of makes me wonder about something-

If medical historians now believe aspirin poisoning killed more Spanish flu patients than the actual Spanish flu, and we're learning now that doctors were blowing out coronavirus patients' lungs on a vent, which turns out to be more harmful than beneficial - what would our death numbers look like if people didn't go to the doctor or hospital when a flu or corona hits? What would happen if people stayed home, kept hydrated, and got rest, but didn't seek medical treatment?


Offline Alan

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Re: Let me be perfectly dumb here.
« Reply #13 on: Tue Apr 28, 2020 - 06:12:32 »
Kind of makes me wonder about something-

If medical historians now believe aspirin poisoning killed more Spanish flu patients than the actual Spanish flu, and we're learning now that doctors were blowing out coronavirus patients' lungs on a vent, which turns out to be more harmful than beneficial - what would our death numbers look like if people didn't go to the doctor or hospital when a flu or corona hits? What would happen if people stayed home, kept hydrated, and got rest, but didn't seek medical treatment?


From most articles I have read, most people that came in with respiratory illness needed some form of treatment due to extremely low blood-ox levels, oxygen by mask or nasal tubes also were effective with some patients. There weren't enough ventilators available to cause the number of deaths we have seen, most died because treatment wasn't available or age discretion was used in place of treatment. Who would have thought that a virus could mimic altitude respiratory illness? We learn for next time I suppose.