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General Discussion => General Discussion Forum => Topic started by: tooldtocare on Wed Jan 16, 2019 - 19:07:21

Title: Privatize Social Security
Post by: tooldtocare on Wed Jan 16, 2019 - 19:07:21
Privatize Social Security

The Social Security program provides workers and their families with retirement, disability, and survivors insurance benefits. Workers earn these benefits by paying into the system during their working years. Over the program’s 83-year history, it has collected roughly $20.9 trillion and paid out $18.0 trillion, leaving asset reserves of $2.9 trillion at the end of 2017 in its two trust funds.

With assets of $2.9 trillion, who wouldn’t want to be the owner--?

I am sure Trump's minions would like a slice of the pie !!

 ::doh::
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Texas Conservative on Wed Jan 16, 2019 - 19:09:21
Privatize Social Security

The Social Security program provides workers and their families with retirement, disability, and survivors insurance benefits. Workers earn these benefits by paying into the system during their working years. Over the program’s 83-year history, it has collected roughly $20.9 trillion and paid out $18.0 trillion, leaving asset reserves of $2.9 trillion at the end of 2017 in its two trust funds.

With assets of $2.9 trillion, who wouldn’t want to be the owner--?

I am sure Trump's minions would like a slice of the pie !!

 ::doh::

We are gonna send all you old timers out on ice floes.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Ginger Rella on Wed Jan 16, 2019 - 19:29:00
We are gonna send all you old timers out on ice floes.


Only the male ones.     rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Ginger Rella on Wed Jan 16, 2019 - 19:31:06
Privatize Social Security

The Social Security program provides workers and their families with retirement, disability, and survivors insurance benefits. Workers earn these benefits by paying into the system during their working years. Over the program’s 83-year history, it has collected roughly $20.9 trillion and paid out $18.0 trillion, leaving asset reserves of $2.9 trillion at the end of 2017 in its two trust funds.

With assets of $2.9 trillion, who wouldn’t want to be the owner--?

I am sure Trump's minions would like a slice of the pie !!

 ::doh::

I got mine. Didn't you get yours?

Are you not enjoying your increase this year?

It never happened much under Obuma, and you know it....
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Wed Jan 16, 2019 - 21:38:40
I mean, privatizing medicare worked out so well...
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: 4WD on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 04:56:05
Privatize Social Security

The Social Security program provides workers and their families with retirement, disability, and survivors insurance benefits. Workers earn these benefits by paying into the system during their working years. Over the program’s 83-year history, it has collected roughly $20.9 trillion and paid out $18.0 trillion, leaving asset reserves of $2.9 trillion at the end of 2017 in its two trust funds.

With assets of $2.9 trillion, who wouldn’t want to be the owner--?

I am sure Trump's minions would like a slice of the pie !!

 ::doh::
There is no trust fund.  That $2.9 trillion reserves do not exist.  They are simply numbers on a piece of paper (in a computer) somewhere.  Had that $20.9 Trillion that was collected actually been in an actual trust fund invested in the market, there would not be a problem anytime soon.  But it has been collected and spent.

Throughout my working life (over 50 years) I, and my employer, paid over 10% of my total working income into that SS system.  During about 12 years my last employer contributed less than 3% of my salary into the company retirement system.  The income from that retirement plan pays me considerably more than SS.  SS is the about worst investment anyone could possibly make.  In terms of investment for retirement, it is a joke.

If the government imposed the rules and regulations upon the SS collections that it imposes upon the company retirement plan, there would be almost no problem with SS.  But it doesn't.  It simply collects the money and spends it.

And what is even worse is the retirement system that exists for government employees.  Everyone talks about how bad the SS system is.  The government employee retirement system is far, far worse. 
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: 4WD on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 05:04:06
I mean, privatizing medicare worked out so well...
Privatized medicare??  Are you serious??  Medicare is not privatized.  It is strictly a government operation.

And government operations suck.  The old story about a camel being a race horse designed by the government is not even close to how bad it really is.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 06:48:21
Social Security is a government sponsored Ponzi Scheme
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Carey on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 09:44:46
Social Security is a government sponsored Ponzi Scheme

We got you beat, our CPP makes SS look like a astute, conservative business plan.   
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 12:00:48
Quote
Privatized medicare??  Are you serious??

Yep.  That's what a "Medicare Advantage Plan" is. You give up your Medicare plan for a privatized plan.   You should be extremely careful as most plans are very limited as far as requiring "in-network" providers, and almost every service requires authorizations.   Which is understandable.  They are a middleman between you and Medicare, and they want their cut out of your benefits.

Quote
Medicare is not privatized.  It is strictly a government operation.

It is, unless you opt for "Medicare Advantage."   

Costliest Mistakes You Can Make When New to Medicare
https://medigapseminars.org/mistakes-you-can-make-when-new-to-medicare/

Quote
And government operations suck.

Do a little research.   It could save you some grief later on.   I tend to agree with you on government, but worse is letting insurance companies play with your benefits.

   
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 12:02:49
Quote
Social Security is a government sponsored Ponzi Scheme

I remember people telling me  in the 1990s that Social Security would be broke by the time I retired.   Now, they're saying it will be broke by 2043.   So I'm skeptical.


Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 12:27:41
I remember people telling me  in the 1990s that Social Security would be broke by the time I retired.   Now, they're saying it will be broke by 2043.   So I'm skeptical.

It is broke now.  Money taken from my paycheck pays current retiree benefits.  That is a Ponzi scheme.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Ginger Rella on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 14:18:31
It is broke now.  Money taken from my paycheck pays current retiree benefits.  That is a Ponzi scheme.
[/quote

Yes, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart TC. rofl
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: 4WD on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 15:12:41
It is, unless you opt for "Medicare Advantage."   
And how much money do those plans receive from the Government?  It is not a small amount.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 19:29:14
Quote
It is broke now.

In the sense that a person holding millions in U.S. savings bonds is broke.   That is, not actually. 

Social Security Funded Until 2034, and About Three-Quarters Funded for the Long Term
https://blog.ssa.gov/social-security-funded-until-2034-and-about-three-quarters-funded-for-the-long-term-many-options-to-address-the-long-term-shortfall/

Quote
Money taken from my paycheck pays current retiree benefits.  That is a Ponzi scheme.

If so, your mortgage is a Ponzi scheme.


Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 19:30:41
Quote
And how much money do those plans receive from the Government?  It is not a small amount.

No, it's not.   They get what you'd ordinarily get from Medicare.   But they have to find a way to make a profit, so they skim off a little, hoping you won't need much attention.   If you're lucky, you won't.  If not...

Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Texas Conservative on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 19:53:16
In the sense that a person holding millions in U.S. savings bonds is broke.   That is, not actually. 

Social Security Funded Until 2034, and About Three-Quarters Funded for the Long Term
https://blog.ssa.gov/social-security-funded-until-2034-and-about-three-quarters-funded-for-the-long-term-many-options-to-address-the-long-term-shortfall/

If so, your mortgage is a Ponzi scheme.

Your logic is flawed.  My mortgage is me paying back money I borrowed with interest.  There is no coerced participation.

Portions of my paycheck (new investor capital) via FICA taxes pays current retirees (previous investor) dividends for their previous "investment." It is necessary to do this because the money current retirees put in was spent on "investors" prior to them with no actual gains by the fund other than continued forced participation of the next generation of workers.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Thu Jan 17, 2019 - 21:54:38
Quote
Your logic is flawed.

I'm just pointing out the obvious.  Until 2034, social security is 100 percent funded.

Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: AVZ on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 02:28:25
I'm just pointing out the obvious.  Until 2034, social security is 100 percent funded.

Sure, every Ponzi scheme comes to an end sooner or later.
This one ceases in 2034
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: 4WD on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 05:24:21
I'm just pointing out the obvious.  Until 2034, social security is 100 percent funded.
That is simply a play on the numbers.  There actually is no money there; everything that has gone into the SS system has been spent already.  The money being paid into the system doesn't meet the requirements for the money being paid out.  In fact, the actual payments are just part of the annual government expenditures, of which about 40% is borrowed.  It is even worse than that because of all the manipulation of the numbers by the FED.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: tooldtocare on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 09:07:27
I cannot speak for anyone else but I am getting $2,067.00 a month from SS. This pays my mortgage and a few of my other monthly bills. If it wasn’t for SS I would have lost my home and no telling what would have come of me. Maybe I would be holding a sign at a street corner asking for help?

You are welcome to badmouth SS but when your turn 67 your tune will change.

A SUMMARY OF THE 2018 ANNUAL SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE TRUST FUND REPORTS. In 2017, Social Security's reserves increased by $44 billion to reach $2.9 trillion by the year's end. ... The projected depletion date for the combined OASDI funds 1 remains 2034, as reported last year.
 ::tippinghat::
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Jaime on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 09:22:19
The trust fund is a box of IOUs that they have to periodically replenish because Congress long ago robbed the Trust fund.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 09:40:58
Quote
Sure, every Ponzi scheme comes to an end sooner or later.
This one ceases in 2034

Goes to 75% funded in 2034.   Unless, as they usually do, change the system.   As people have become healthier longer, they've been working longer, so the retirement age has increased.  If that demographic continues, as it is, the date keeps moving farther into the future.


Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 09:44:00
Quote
A SUMMARY OF THE 2018 ANNUAL SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE TRUST FUND REPORTS. In 2017, Social Security's reserves increased by $44 billion to reach $2.9 trillion by the year's end. ... The projected depletion date for the combined OASDI funds 1 remains 2034, as reported last year.

The "depletion date" means that you get 75% of your money after that.   Assuming retirement age remains the same, which is unlikely.   

And the illegal aliens working her continue to contribute to the fund, but most of them will never draw from it.   So there is that.

Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Texas Conservative on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 09:48:13
Goes to 75% funded in 2034.   Unless, as they usually do, change the system.   As people have become healthier longer, they've been working longer, so the retirement age has increased.  If that demographic continues, as it is, the date keeps moving farther into the future.

The 75% funded means less workers contributing current funds per retiree.  Again, Ponzi Scheme.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: 4WD on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 10:09:15
I cannot speak for anyone else but I am getting $2,067.00 a month from SS. This pays my mortgage and a few of my other monthly bills. If it wasn’t for SS I would have lost my home and no telling what would have come of me. Maybe I would be holding a sign at a street corner asking for help?

You are welcome to badmouth SS but when your turn 67 your tune will change.

A SUMMARY OF THE 2018 ANNUAL SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE TRUST FUND REPORTS. In 2017, Social Security's reserves increased by $44 billion to reach $2.9 trillion by the year's end. ... The projected depletion date for the combined OASDI funds 1 remains 2034, as reported last year.
 ::tippinghat::
If you would have saved and invested even modestly the same amount the government as taken from you, you would be receiving a lot more than $2000 a month.  This is just one more way in which the majority are being punished because a few like you probably wouldn't have saved anything without being forced to at the threat of a gun by the government.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: 4WD on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 10:15:15
The 75% funded means less workers contributing current funds per retiree.  Again, Ponzi Scheme.
Yes, the average life expectancy when SS was introduced was just under 62.  That meant that the average worker didn't even make it to retirement, let alone collect anything.  The average life expectancy now is just under 80.  The numbers simply do not work.

Another interesting statistic:  California now has more people [I believe of working age] on welfare of one sort or another than there are people working.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: tooldtocare on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 10:54:06
I'm 67. To get my driver’s license renewed I had to get a doctor sign off on my health. My doctor refused to sign off until I had my heart examined. I went to the hospital and got my heart scanned. The medical process took 6 hours at the hospital.

Medicare paid 100% of the bill.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: 4WD on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 11:46:15
I'm 67. To get my driver’s license renewed I had to get a doctor sign off on my health. My doctor refused to sign off until I had my heart examined. I went to the hospital and got my heart scanned. The medical process took 6 hours at the hospital.

Medicare paid 100% of the bill.

Six hours at the hospital?  Have you seen the bill?  It likely took thousands of dollars to get that OK for a driver's license.  And you are happy that Medicare paid for it?  Personally I think everything about that is just plain sick.  No wonder the country is going to hell in a hand basket.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 11:49:01
Quote
Yes, the average life expectancy when SS was introduced was just under 62.  That meant that the average worker didn't even make it to retirement, let alone collect anything.

Actually, that's not really the case.   Life expectancy included a much higher infant mortality rate than we have today.   So most workers did indeed make it to retirement.   If you got through early childhood, your life expectancy went up dramatically.    But all that infant mortality counted when calculating life expectancy. 

Quote
The average life expectancy now is just under 80.  The numbers simply do not work.

It's why the age of eligibility is slowly increasing.  But for the reason mentioned above, it's not as critical as the raw numbers might suggest.

Quote
Another interesting statistic:  California now has more people [I believe of working age] on welfare of one sort or another than there are people working.

I didn't immediately find that statistic, but the workforce participation rate (which includes children and people who are retired) is almost identical for California and the nation as a whole.   It's about 62%.
https://data.edd.ca.gov/Labor-Force-and-Unemployment-Rates/Labor-Force-Participation-Rate-US-and-California/ww59-3giz

Unemployment in California pretty much mirrors U.S. unemployment:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/189394/unemployment-rate-in-california-since-1992/

Sounds unsustainable until we get more robotics underway.  (Barbarian checks)

Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 11:51:07
Quote
Six hours at the hospital?  Have you seen the bill?  It likely took thousands of dollars to get that OK for a driver's license.  And you are happy that Medicare paid for it?  Personally I think everything about that is just plain sick.  No wonder the country is going to hell in a hand basket.

No matter who paid for it, it's equally bad.   But this isn't a federal issue.   It's the problem with the state, which has an apparently unreasonable law.   


Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: 4WD on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 12:02:57
No matter who paid for it, it's equally bad.   But this isn't a federal issue.   It's the problem with the state, which has an apparently unreasonable law.
Barbarian, the problem is government, first state, then Federal.  Footing the bill for unnecessary heart testing is a federal issue.  As Ben Shapiro says, "Government Sucks". 
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 13:26:39
Quote
Barbarian, the problem is government, first state, then Federal.

Yep.  This is why the mercantile class tended to support the king against the regional magnates; they knew that justice was more even-handed at a distance.

Quote
Footing the bill for unnecessary heart testing is a federal issue.

In this case, the state did it.   Apparently, Medicare covers legally-required state testing.   The solution isn't to stop Medicare; it's to stop the states from this kind of stupidity.

Quote
As Ben Shapiro says, "Government Sucks".

As Somalis will tell you, "anarchy sucks worse."   The answer is to keep government pruned back to the minimum necessary to keep people from imposing on other people regardless of whether the oppression is done physically or economically.

It's not the role of government to keep us good or keep us happy or wealthy.   It's only to keep people from limiting the freedom of other people.

And moderators, shouldn't this stuff be in "Politics?"   I don't post there, precisely because I don't like getting into these discussions.   Policy is too interesting for me to resist.



 
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: 4WD on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 13:32:07
In this case, the state did it.   Apparently, Medicare covers legally-required state testing.   The solution isn't to stop Medicare; it's to stop the states from this kind of stupidity.
As far as Medicare was concerned, the state had nothing to do with it.  The doctor prescribed the procedure.   Why is immaterial to Medicare.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Jaime on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 13:37:35
Barbarian, the Politics Forum IS all about policy. What else matters or differentiates us? We have some defending socialist or statist policies and others defending the opposite policies. If it wasn’t for policies, we could all claim uni-party status, which of course is not reality. Go ahead and jump in. Certainly no bigger dead horse to beat than evolution discussions for sure.
Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: The Barbarian on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 17:21:22
Quote
Barbarian, the Politics Forum IS all about policy. What else matters or differentiates us? We have some defending socialist or statist policies and others defending the opposite policies. If it wasn’t for policies, we could all claim uni-party status, which of course is not reality. Go ahead and jump in. Certainly no bigger dead horse to beat than evolution discussions for sure.

I really like everyone here, and I've learned politics is the best way to offend people.   I got more involved with it here, than I wanted to be.    I get your reasons, but I think I'll step out of this.   No one's offended me, but I would be more comfortable not talking about it here.

Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: tooldtocare on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 17:25:56
A few years ago, I drove to my local hospital because I felt a pain and went to the emergency room. The hospital implanted a stent in one of my arteries the same day. I paid “zero”; Medicare paid 100% of the bill

Last month I went to renew my driver’s license and the drivers license department required me to get my doctor to sign a statement that I was healthy enough to drive a car. My doctor refused to do so unless I get my heart looked at.

I went to the emergency room at the same hospital and told my story. From there they sent me to a special ward in the hospital where the scanned my heat and took a few other tests. The then sent a report to my personal doctor.
Medicare paid 100% of the cost.

the above is the truth, nothing but the truth so help me God

btw: I'm 67 years old  ::smile::


Title: Re: Privatize Social Security
Post by: Ginger Rella on Fri Jan 18, 2019 - 20:04:56
A few years ago, I drove to my local hospital because I felt a pain and went to the emergency room. The hospital implanted a stent in one of my arteries the same day. I paid “zero”; Medicare paid 100% of the bill

Last month I went to renew my driver’s license and the drivers license department required me to get my doctor to sign a statement that I was healthy enough to drive a car. My doctor refused to do so unless I get my heart looked at.

I went to the emergency room at the same hospital and told my story. From there they sent me to a special ward in the hospital where the scanned my heat and took a few other tests. The then sent a report to my personal doctor.
Medicare paid 100% of the cost.

the above is the truth, nothing but the truth so help me God

btw: I'm 67 years old  ::smile::

And you do not supplement your Medicare with a supplement or a Medigap Policy?

They tell you when you sign up that Medicare only pays 80%.

Maybe cause you went to the emergency room... though when I was there they oly did 80% and my supplment pays
the balance. I too, never pay a penny  ::clappingoverhead::