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Author Topic: Should Christians Own Guns?  (Read 145257 times)

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Offline anchorman

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #105 on: November 13, 2008, 07:53:50 AM »
 
 If someone was harming my child- I want to kill them...and that's why I don't own gun, because I don't want that as an option.

Read the 26th chapter- he is telling us instead of arming ourselves- turn to his father in prayer. God will either provide a way out- and if he doesn't than what happens is his will.

Now as for the gentlemen who says what happens with the sword is really about Holy Wars- I don;t even know where to begin on this. But the proof that  your wrong comes a few lines later in that chapter where you see all the apostles flee in protection. The sword was self defense- not just defense of Jesus- the fact they ran away proves they were interested in survival...and yet Christ told them to put their faith in God

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #105 on: November 13, 2008, 07:53:50 AM »

Offline jb728b

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #106 on: November 13, 2008, 08:06:47 AM »
It's a strange idea that "not owning a gun" would actually prevent a person from killing someone else.  A gun simply makes killing more expedient it doesn't prevent it.  Believe me if person "A" really wanted to kill person "B" do you think the lack of a gun would prevent that?  Of course if person "B" had a gun he could prevent person "A" from killing him.  But that makes too much sense.

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #106 on: November 13, 2008, 08:06:47 AM »

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #107 on: November 13, 2008, 08:10:24 AM »
Answer my post on the bottom of page 7, Anchorman.

Robert

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #107 on: November 13, 2008, 08:10:24 AM »

Offline anchorman

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #108 on: November 13, 2008, 08:18:52 AM »
Actually- Rams you don't know who you are taking.

As a journalist I have- on two occasions- had a weapon pointed at me. In one case, back in 1994 when I was a producer- (and I know from your previous post that you will remember this) I was with a crew that traved to Chiapas to interview Subcomandante Marcos- who was the leader of a revelountary group called the Zapatistas. We were surronded- not just by machine guns- but by young kids holding machines guns.  

There were times when I was really scared for my life, but I never wished that I was armed. All though- I did wonder why I wasn't paid more.

Would Christ carry a gun or would he turn to prayer. You may think that turning the other cheek is crap- I think it is the way of the Lord

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #108 on: November 13, 2008, 08:18:52 AM »
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Offline Snargles

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #109 on: November 13, 2008, 08:50:45 AM »
It's a strange idea that "not owning a gun" would actually prevent a person from killing someone else.  A gun simply makes killing more expedient it doesn't prevent it.  Believe me if person "A" really wanted to kill person "B" do you think the lack of a gun would prevent that?  Of course if person "B" had a gun he could prevent person "A" from killing him.  But that makes too much sense.

The idea is that by the time you go to Honest Sam's Used Gun Store and purchase your piece you will have calmed down and realized that it is better to sue the other guy for $100000 than just shoot him and go to jail.

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #109 on: November 13, 2008, 08:50:45 AM »



Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2008, 08:52:30 AM »

Anchorman,

It always leaves me in wonder how people who have never seen anything remotely close to a weapon pointed at their face, any weapon held by those who are intent to kill you, or at least, do great harm, and then stand there and try and apply what you intone, as do so many others.

They really think they can, and somehow they think this is Godly..........., biblical or both.

In fact, the more isolated one is from any sort of harm, like you, here in the US or Canada or wherever, the more draconian that stance is to be so passive by boast,  and so wrong on the whole Biblical premise of self defense.

May I come there and point my 12 gauge sawed off shotgun at your cheek?  See how you do. Of course, in that scenario, like sometimes where and how I find myself, if I "slap" you with it, there is nothing but a pink, purple, and very bloody writhing, jerking, offal dripping stump left so there is no 'cheek' to turn, now is there.

Amazing revisionism.

Robert

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #111 on: November 13, 2008, 08:54:42 AM »

 If someone was harming my child- I want to kill them...and that's why I don't own gun, because I don't want that as an option.

Read the 26th chapter- he is telling us instead of arming ourselves- turn to his father in prayer. God will either provide a way out- and if he doesn't than what happens is his will.



Excerpted:

Then, it is safe to infer there is a way out. And that could very well be one being armed......

Robert

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #112 on: November 13, 2008, 09:05:31 AM »
Actually- Rams you don't know who you are taking.

As a journalist I have- on two occasions- had a weapon pointed at me. In one case, back in 1994 when I was a producer- (and I know from your previous post that you will remember this) I was with a crew that traved to Chiapas to interview Subcomandante Marcos- who was the leader of a revelountary group called the Zapatistas. We were surronded- not just by machine guns- but by young kids holding machines guns.  

There were times when I was really scared for my life, but I never wished that I was armed. All though- I did wonder why I wasn't paid more.

Would Christ carry a gun or would he turn to prayer. You may think that turning the other cheek is crap- I think it is the way of the Lord

Then you know what I speak.  And I laughed so hard at your statement above, "Would Christ carry a gun or would he turn to prayer", as it is so amazing.

ANSWER:  No, he would not. Since he is GOD in the flesh, he would kill all the people on Earth by water in the flood and save 6, then tell them, I'll do it again, watch the fire next time.

Such silliness.

And lo, how possible could I "know who you are"?

And your tale, as a journalist, yes, I know exactly what you were seeing and doing and feeling, and it was not your time as the Lord protected you, perhaps as a journalist, with maybe numbers and not you just by yourself.  Who knows, but the Lord does.  You came out on the other side with no harm.

I will say if I had been there and someone would have started shooting, as a fellow American, I would grabbed a weapon, tackled you, held you down with me as protection and started "shootin' and lootin'" till it was over, then introduce myself to you and ask,  "You okay, partner......?"

Then, we would have discovered we were both in Jesus Christ.  Would you then say, "you shot all those people and saved me......You are a murderer and filled with hateful sin......."

Consider?

Robert





Offline jb728b

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #113 on: November 13, 2008, 11:52:40 AM »
What would Jesus do?

Well here is what Jesus said:

Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Should a Christian own a Sword?  A sword was created for the very same purpose as a gun.

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2008, 11:57:49 AM »
"Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."
    —Matthew 26:52, King James Version


 A little context please!

The context concerns those who would take up arms to FORCE religious views.  Notice WHY Peter drew his sword, it was to force others to accept Jesus on his (Peters) terms.  This text is simply a condemnation of "Holy Wars", crusades and other such nonsense.  Nothing to do with self defense or protection.  Also, did you notice,  the apostle Peter owned a sword.

It wasn't to force anyone to accept Jesus, it was to prevent Jesus from being captured.

What would Jesus do?

Well here is what Jesus said:

Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Should a Christian own a Sword?  A sword was created for the very same purpose as a gun.

I don't believe Luke 22:36 is a Christian call to arms.

If so why are the Apostles and disciples getting martyred without a fight?

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #114 on: November 13, 2008, 11:57:49 AM »

Offline jb728b

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #115 on: November 13, 2008, 12:08:12 PM »
"Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword."
    —Matthew 26:52, King James Version


 A little context please!

The context concerns those who would take up arms to FORCE religious views.  Notice WHY Peter drew his sword, it was to force others to accept Jesus on his (Peters) terms.  This text is simply a condemnation of "Holy Wars", crusades and other such nonsense.  Nothing to do with self defense or protection.  Also, did you notice,  the apostle Peter owned a sword.

It wasn't to force anyone to accept Jesus, it was to prevent Jesus from being captured.

What would Jesus do?

Well here is what Jesus said:

Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Should a Christian own a Sword?  A sword was created for the very same purpose as a gun.

I don't believe Luke 22:36 is a Christian call to arms.

If so why are the Apostles and disciples getting martyred without a fight?

Whoa!  What is this crap about "call to arms"?  Those are your words not mine.  Talk about twisting and distorting. 

The question was "Should Christians own guns?"
Not
"Should idiots go on a shooting rampage?" 
 Get the facts straight!

Second let's look at Jesus again.

Since Jesus called people vipers and white washed tombs and chased the money changers in the temple  with a whip  I guess he didn’t practice what he preached about turning the other cheek.

Can a Christian own a whip?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 12:15:48 PM by jb728b »

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #116 on: November 13, 2008, 12:20:34 PM »
No reason to get caustic because I disagree with you or used a poor choice of words.

But the question still remains, if Christians are allowed to use swords or weapons in self-defense why do we see so many Christians getting murdered for their faith in the New Testament without a fight?

Offline zoonance

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #117 on: November 13, 2008, 12:24:44 PM »
Perhaps because they were murdered for their refussal to deny Him.  Not in protecting their families etc.?

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #118 on: November 13, 2008, 12:28:58 PM »
Perhaps because they were murdered for their refussal to deny Him.  Not in protecting their families etc.?

I wasn't really asking why they were murdered, since that is a subject of little debate. But the question is why didn't the disciples ever put of a fight when faced with death, why does Paul constantly get beaten, stoned, imprisoned, harassed, etc. without defending himself with a weapon or even any resistance?

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #119 on: November 13, 2008, 12:29:15 PM »
No reason to get caustic because I disagree with you or used a poor choice of words.

But the question still remains, if Christians are allowed to use swords or weapons in self-defense why do we see so many Christians getting murdered for their faith in the New Testament without a fight?

Hilarious..........
JB did not get "caustic" at all.  He answered your question perfectly and it still remains as does my comments to you also that you have not addressed yet or had time to, on pages 7,8 and above.

Charles,  come on friend, clear the mind some.

Robert