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Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #120 on: November 13, 2008, 12:31:39 PM »
No reason to get caustic because I disagree with you or used a poor choice of words.

But the question still remains, if Christians are allowed to use swords or weapons in self-defense why do we see so many Christians getting murdered for their faith in the New Testament without a fight?

Hilarious..........
JB did not get "caustic" at all.  He answered your question perfectly and it still remains as does my comments to you also that you have not addressed yet or had time to, on pages 7,8 and above.

Charles,  come on friend, clear the mind some.

Robert

He said I was twisting a distorting, that was unnecessary.

But what comments addressed to me did I over look?
Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee.
Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.  — Psalm 128:1-3

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. — Psalm 138:2

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. — Colossians 4:6

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #120 on: November 13, 2008, 12:31:39 PM »

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #121 on: November 13, 2008, 12:32:17 PM »
Charles,

I, nor you, and or anyone here or alive is either Paul, Jesus, or Isaiah of Jeremiah, etc.

We are human, first, then saved by Grace.

We will and do kill at the sake of war, defense or defeating the ides of darkness, roaming the wasteland, to then witness, love and live another day.

Robert
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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #121 on: November 13, 2008, 12:32:17 PM »

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #122 on: November 13, 2008, 12:33:40 PM »
Charles,

I, nor you, and or anyone here or alive is either Paul, Jesus, or Isaiah of Jeremiah, etc.

We are human, first, then saved by Grace.

We will and do kill at the sake of war, defense or defeating the ides of darkness, roaming the wasteland, to then witness, love and live another day.

Robert

We are called to live our lives as they did, in obedience to the Gospel and the Word of God.

Just claiming we are not them isn't a defensible argument.
Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee.
Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.  — Psalm 128:1-3

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. — Psalm 138:2

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. — Colossians 4:6

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #122 on: November 13, 2008, 12:33:40 PM »

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #123 on: November 13, 2008, 12:35:20 PM »
Actually- Rams you don't know who you are taking.

As a journalist I have- on two occasions- had a weapon pointed at me. In one case, back in 1994 when I was a producer- (and I know from your previous post that you will remember this) I was with a crew that traved to Chiapas to interview Subcomandante Marcos- who was the leader of a revelountary group called the Zapatistas. We were surronded- not just by machine guns- but by young kids holding machines guns.  

There were times when I was really scared for my life, but I never wished that I was armed. All though- I did wonder why I wasn't paid more.

Would Christ carry a gun or would he turn to prayer. You may think that turning the other cheek is crap- I think it is the way of the Lord

Then you know what I speak.  And I laughed so hard at your statement above, "Would Christ carry a gun or would he turn to prayer", as it is so amazing.

ANSWER:  No, he would not. Since he is GOD in the flesh, he would kill all the people on Earth by water in the flood and save 6, then tell them, I'll do it again, watch the fire next time.

Such silliness.

And lo, how possible could I "know who you are"?

And your tale, as a journalist, yes, I know exactly what you were seeing and doing and feeling, and it was not your time as the Lord protected you, perhaps as a journalist, with maybe numbers and not you just by yourself.  Who knows, but the Lord does.  You came out on the other side with no harm.

I will say if I had been there and someone would have started shooting, as a fellow American, I would grabbed a weapon, tackled you, held you down with me as protection and started "shootin' and lootin'" till it was over, then introduce myself to you and ask,  "You okay, partner......?"

Then, we would have discovered we were both in Jesus Christ.  Would you then say, "you shot all those people and saved me......You are a murderer and filled with hateful sin......."

Consider?

Robert



=========================

Charles,

This one here above I have re-posted, mostly.  And Anchorman's initial post also, in retort to me.

I am intrigued for you to address this as you see things.

Robert
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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #123 on: November 13, 2008, 12:35:20 PM »

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #124 on: November 13, 2008, 12:40:57 PM »
I'm sorry Robert, I just don't understand what you are saying.  Its okay to kill people for the greater good? That just doesn't line up with Scripture or with the example of Christ from my understanding.

I'm sorry I don't have more to say.
Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee.
Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.  — Psalm 128:1-3

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. — Psalm 138:2

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. — Colossians 4:6

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #124 on: November 13, 2008, 12:40:57 PM »



Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #125 on: November 13, 2008, 12:44:48 PM »
Should Christians own guns, Charles?

Robert
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Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #126 on: November 13, 2008, 12:45:37 PM »
Should Christians own guns, Charles?

Robert

I have yet to see a compelling argument from Scripture.
Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee.
Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.  — Psalm 128:1-3

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. — Psalm 138:2

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. — Colossians 4:6

Offline kensington

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #127 on: November 13, 2008, 01:34:18 PM »
You guys are twisting the word for the sake of argument....  Charles I did give you a scripture ... Mark 3:37

And there is a BIG difference in being martyred for the Kingdom and the WORD of God, than defending the innocent lives of your children in your home.

IF you are preaching the gospel, and someone takes hold of you and kills you for doing that, you have no reason to fight, you have done well.  As the apostles did.

If you are in your home, and someone is breaking in to rob you, rape your wife or even your child, and you shoot them, you have not done anything wrong.
MARK 3:37 

They are different.  Really.   But, of course... continue the pee contest.... as you were.  ::rolling::
Wimpy Christians won't survive spiritual warfare. - Carman

He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called, "The Word Of GOD".  {Revelation 19:13}

Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #128 on: November 13, 2008, 01:40:25 PM »
Should Christians own guns, Charles?

Robert

I have yet to see a compelling argument from Scripture.

Have you found any compelling argument from scripture against owning them?

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #129 on: November 13, 2008, 01:45:05 PM »
Should Christians own guns, Charles?

Robert

I have yet to see a compelling argument from Scripture.

Have you found any compelling argument from scripture against owning them?

Numerous, and repeatedly throughout this thread.
Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee.
Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.  — Psalm 128:1-3

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. — Psalm 138:2

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. — Colossians 4:6

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #129 on: November 13, 2008, 01:45:05 PM »

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #130 on: November 13, 2008, 01:48:05 PM »
You guys are twisting the word for the sake of argument....  Charles I did give you a scripture ... Mark 3:37

And there is a BIG difference in being martyred for the Kingdom and the WORD of God, than defending the innocent lives of your children in your home.

IF you are preaching the gospel, and someone takes hold of you and kills you for doing that, you have no reason to fight, you have done well.  As the apostles did.

If you are in your home, and someone is breaking in to rob you, rape your wife or even your child, and you shoot them, you have not done anything wrong.
MARK 3:37 

They are different.  Really.   But, of course... continue the pee contest.... as you were.  ::rolling::

Honey, the verse is Mark 3:27 and Jesus is speaking in parable about demonic possession.
Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee.
Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.  — Psalm 128:1-3

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. — Psalm 138:2

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. — Colossians 4:6

Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #131 on: November 13, 2008, 02:02:15 PM »
Should Christians own guns, Charles?

Robert

I have yet to see a compelling argument from Scripture.

Have you found any compelling argument from scripture against owning them?

Numerous, and repeatedly throughout this thread.

I haven't seen one.

Offline anchorman

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #132 on: November 13, 2008, 02:09:25 PM »
  Charles- since it was your question that started this thread- I just wanted to say that I am proud of you.

You have a new baby at home and as a good father you want to do everything to protect this precious child. And yet you asked this question (I am guessing here) because protection is not enough- first and foremost you also want to set an example of what a good Christian man looks like.

The courage you've shown on this board far exceeds what those who rush for the comfort of a gun can ever understand

Offline anchorman

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #133 on: November 13, 2008, 02:12:47 PM »
gary I have been wondering where you have been all day on this issue. Here is my sciputral arguement against using a gun for protection.  I am reposting this from earlier because I want you to way in
____________________________________________ _______________

Rams- in the eyes of God there is no difference between a slap on the cheek and someone pointing a gun in your face. How does that passage start off; "do not resist an evil person." What does resist mean; fight back.

Christ is telling you: Do not fight back.

Now what is really amazing to me is that anyone on this board would use Mathew 26:52 as an arguement for guns...in fact it's a clear cut arguement against guns and specfically against using guns for protection.

The context- and try as you might you cannot take it out of context- is one of an invasion- not unlike someone breaking into your home. Here comes Judas with the army- which under 25:47 clearly says the army has its swords drawn. "47While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs" Not unlike an armed robber.

So what does Peter do- he pulls out a sword- just like a homeowner running for his gun. And Christ publically rebukes him. Telling him not to fight back- that violence breads more violence; "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword"

But don't stop there. On the next line of scripture- Jesus tells Peter where his faith should invested,---not in guns but in God. VS 53 "Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

In the eyes of Christ you can only live by the cross- living by the gun is not an option- not a Christian option anyway. To even buy a gun is to not have faith in God's plan


Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #134 on: November 13, 2008, 02:19:07 PM »
gary I have been wondering where you have been all day on this issue. Here is my sciputral arguement against using a gun for protection.  I am reposting this from earlier because I want you to way in
____________________________________________ _______________

Rams- in the eyes of God there is no difference between a slap on the cheek and someone pointing a gun in your face. How does that passage start off; "do not resist an evil person." What does resist mean; fight back.

Christ is telling you: Do not fight back.

Now what is really amazing to me is that anyone on this board would use Mathew 26:52 as an arguement for guns...in fact it's a clear cut arguement against guns and specfically against using guns for protection.

The context- and try as you might you cannot take it out of context- is one of an invasion- not unlike someone breaking into your home. Here comes Judas with the army- which under 25:47 clearly says the army has its swords drawn. "47While he was still speaking, Judas, one of the Twelve, arrived. With him was a large crowd armed with swords and clubs" Not unlike an armed robber.

So what does Peter do- he pulls out a sword- just like a homeowner running for his gun. And Christ publically rebukes him. Telling him not to fight back- that violence breads more violence; "Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword"

But don't stop there. On the next line of scripture- Jesus tells Peter where his faith should invested,---not in guns but in God. VS 53 "Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? 54But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

In the eyes of Christ you can only live by the cross- living by the gun is not an option- not a Christian option anyway. To even buy a gun is to not have faith in God's plan



Still don't see it.  I am not "living by the gun" because I have a .30-06 in my house.