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Author Topic: Should Christians Own Guns?  (Read 145300 times)

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Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #135 on: November 13, 2008, 02:21:33 PM »
  Charles- since it was your question that started this thread- I just wanted to say that I am proud of you.

You have a new baby at home and as a good father you want to do everything to protect this precious child. And yet you asked this question (I am guessing here) because protection is not enough- first and foremost you also want to set an example of what a good Christian man looks like.

The courage you've shown on this board far exceeds what those who rush for the comfort of a gun can ever understand



Thanks for your kindness.

That is really what this is all about, but really it isn't enough for people just to tell me its okay to satisfy my convince. I really need to find something in Scripture to support and advocate the use of guns in self-defense. I would rather not think about someone coming in my home and threatening my family, but I don't want that same fear to motivate me to becoming a gun nut.

But what really got me thinking about this was after watching a few of these movies, and realizing that our gun rights are under attack. But again I am torn, just because the radical left is trying to ban guns and the right-wing are trying to protect our rights shouldn't move me one way or the another. I am supposed to be a citizen of a heavenly kingdom where Christ is my king, not some republican or democrat.

So again I don't know, I got alot on my mind with issues addressed in this topic. But one thing is clear, Biblically Christians are hard pressed to support gun use in self-defense.

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #135 on: November 13, 2008, 02:21:33 PM »

Offline Imabear

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #136 on: November 13, 2008, 03:44:27 PM »
An excerpt from: http://www.thirdway.com/peace/?Page=1828|What+Would+Jesus+Do%3F  A Mennonite View of the Issue...
Quote
...Perhaps we don’t want to hear what Jesus has to say: “Love your enemies. Do not resist an evildoer. Pray for those who persecute you

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #136 on: November 13, 2008, 03:44:27 PM »

Offline Jimbob

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #137 on: November 13, 2008, 03:50:29 PM »
So, if someone's breaking in or attacking your family, do any of you refuse to call 911 on the basis that it's an expression of a lack of faith, and the fact that the police who come may indeed use lethal force if necessary?

To be consistent with some of the views expressed, you'd have to.

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #137 on: November 13, 2008, 03:50:29 PM »

Offline Bon Voyage

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #138 on: November 13, 2008, 03:50:56 PM »
I would like to see a balanced view that doesn't seem to flippantly dismiss the OT in favor of the NT, or dismiss the NT in favor of the OT.

The "Hebrew Scriptures" are not just for Hebrews, they are our scriptures.  

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #138 on: November 13, 2008, 03:50:56 PM »

Offline Imabear

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #139 on: November 13, 2008, 04:02:32 PM »
Actually, I have lots of guns in my house.  My FIL was publisher of Sports Afield back in the '50's and '60's.  He had lots of guns.  After a period of time he was transferred to Good Housekeeping as director of advertising.  (Talk about a switch.)  But when he passed on, hubby, who was the only son out of 5 kids, inherited the guns.   

We had some phone line problems a few years back.   The guy from the phone company commented on our "impressive" security system.  Maybe I should learn how to use it.  :)

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #139 on: November 13, 2008, 04:02:32 PM »



Offline zoonance

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #140 on: November 13, 2008, 04:04:41 PM »
  Charles- since it was your question that started this thread- I just wanted to say that I am proud of you.

You have a new baby at home and as a good father you want to do everything to protect this precious child. And yet you asked this question (I am guessing here) because protection is not enough- first and foremost you also want to set an example of what a good Christian man looks like.

The courage you've shown on this board far exceeds what those who rush for the comfort of a gun can ever understand



Thanks for your kindness.

That is really what this is all about, but really it isn't enough for people just to tell me its okay to satisfy my convince. I really need to find something in Scripture to support and advocate the use of guns in self-defense. I would rather not think about someone coming in my home and threatening my family, but I don't want that same fear to motivate me to becoming a gun nut.

But what really got me thinking about this was after watching a few of these movies, and realizing that our gun rights are under attack. But again I am torn, just because the radical left is trying to ban guns and the right-wing are trying to protect our rights shouldn't move me one way or the another. I am supposed to be a citizen of a heavenly kingdom where Christ is my king, not some republican or democrat.

So again I don't know, I got alot on my mind with issues addressed in this topic. But one thing is clear, Biblically Christians are hard pressed to support gun use in self-defense.





I don't have the clearest answer, but it is clear that I could not count on you protecting my life with a gun if the opportunity arose.  Not that you should.

Offline Jimbob

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #141 on: November 13, 2008, 04:11:05 PM »
I would like to see a balanced view that doesn't seem to flippantly dismiss the OT in favor of the NT, or dismiss the NT in favor of the OT.

The "Hebrew Scriptures" are not just for Hebrews, they are our scriptures.  
::amen::

Offline Imabear

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #142 on: November 13, 2008, 04:29:26 PM »
I would like to see a balanced view that doesn't seem to flippantly dismiss the OT in favor of the NT, or dismiss the NT in favor of the OT.

The "Hebrew Scriptures" are not just for Hebrews, they are our scriptures.  

Okay maybe since you're not CoC you can get away with that argument.

The following is an excerpt from an article written by a former military man:
http://www.thirdway.com/peace/?Page=2039|Former+Coast+Guard+Officer+Becomes+Pacifist
Quote
My dramatic change of position was caused by a fresh reading of scripture, a closer examination of Jesus' example, a new study of church history and a personal tragedy. 

May a Christian serve in the military?...
There is no evidence of a single Christian soldier, after New Testament times, until about A.D. 170.

As I studied the life and teaching of Jesus, it became clear to me that he taught pacifism. In the Sermon on the Mount, he declared, "Blessed are the peacemakers." He taught us to "turn the other cheek" and "love our enemies." Jesus not only taught nonresistance, he practiced it, even to the point of his own death. John the Apostle proclaims, "Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did." This demands radical living. Today, I see Jesus' example of nonresistance as a spiritual discipline that I need to cultivate in my life, similar to other spiritual disciplines, like prayer and fasting.


I can use the same argument as the anti-IM people make.  :)  (I know it's a slightly different topic.)

Also there are lots of things that were done in the OT times that today would be considered barbaric. 
The atheists that visit these forums are often well prepared with a list of them...

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #143 on: November 13, 2008, 04:45:54 PM »
  Charles- since it was your question that started this thread- I just wanted to say that I am proud of you.

You have a new baby at home and as a good father you want to do everything to protect this precious child. And yet you asked this question (I am guessing here) because protection is not enough- first and foremost you also want to set an example of what a good Christian man looks like.

The courage you've shown on this board far exceeds what those who rush for the comfort of a gun can ever understand



Thanks for your kindness.

That is really what this is all about, but really it isn't enough for people just to tell me its okay to satisfy my convince. I really need to find something in Scripture to support and advocate the use of guns in self-defense. I would rather not think about someone coming in my home and threatening my family, but I don't want that same fear to motivate me to becoming a gun nut.

But what really got me thinking about this was after watching a few of these movies, and realizing that our gun rights are under attack. But again I am torn, just because the radical left is trying to ban guns and the right-wing are trying to protect our rights shouldn't move me one way or the another. I am supposed to be a citizen of a heavenly kingdom where Christ is my king, not some republican or democrat.

So again I don't know, I got alot on my mind with issues addressed in this topic. But one thing is clear, Biblically Christians are hard pressed to support gun use in self-defense.


Charles,

I have to praise you in this sage response, in tender mercy, and great reason, and sound sagacity.  Thank you for this offering for all of us and my hat is tipped.

Very well put as well.

For me, I have lived so long on the razors edge, so far from my home place, and on the far sides of the world, in great travails and great triumphs and leading people to the Lord as well, and for this culture, sadly, I am very much a Boanergez (A Son of Thunder).  I have killed in self defense and will do so again and have killed to protect others as well.

Your post though is also sound in that you have embraced a matter of great dissernment and admitted the VEX two fold; one, now, you have a new life from your loins amongst you and your heart for which you would surely kill to allow that child to live another second. Yet, you also see some soundness in the view, even as wild as my life is, where I traffic.  Thank you.  To, you are vexed that Christians should not defend themselves, which from my view is patently not correct.

I salute you, from my heart.

In good respect,

Robert



Offline Flying To

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #144 on: November 13, 2008, 05:43:11 PM »


Hey, Candians are proof Indians did mate with raccoons

"at least were not 'frostbacks"

Yep, psychos is right  ::noworries::



Quote
However, still holds, as an aside, "live by the gun, love by the cross.'
I don't even understand what that means....

....a gun is far removed from the cross....




« Last Edit: November 13, 2008, 06:27:28 PM by Flying To »

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #144 on: November 13, 2008, 05:43:11 PM »

Offline Jimbob

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #145 on: November 13, 2008, 06:19:15 PM »
The "Hebrew Scriptures" are not just for Hebrews, they are our scriptures.  
Okay maybe since you're not CoC you can get away with that argument.
You may not know us CoCers as well as you think.  I agree with Gary's statement entirely, for example.
Quote
May a Christian serve in the military?...
There is no evidence of a single Christian soldier, after New Testament times, until about A.D. 170.
Are you serious?  Are you unaware of Cornelius' occupation, and that the NT record does not say he had to quit his job and give up his sword on conversion? 

Offline Flying To

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #146 on: November 13, 2008, 06:26:29 PM »
To, you are vexed that Christians should not defend themselves, which from my view is patently not correct.

I don't think that's anything he's getting at at all...there are times to defend ourselves...but using something that shouldn't even exist shouldn't be promoted.

I would never want to have anyone dead because I claim I am defending myself...I would want to pray to God that both of us would end up staying alive.

Offline Imabear

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #147 on: November 13, 2008, 06:32:06 PM »
The "Hebrew Scriptures" are not just for Hebrews, they are our scriptures.  
Okay maybe since you're not CoC you can get away with that argument.
You may not know us CoCers as well as you think.  I agree with Gary's statement entirely, for example.
Quote
May a Christian serve in the military?...
There is no evidence of a single Christian soldier, after New Testament times, until about A.D. 170.
Are you serious?  Are you unaware of Cornelius' occupation, and that the NT record does not say he had to quit his job and give up his sword on conversion? 
Yeah, I knew that about you.  I had to try though.  :)  Good point about Cornelius. I was just quoting something I read.  I hadn't ever run into that statement before today.  I wasn't a raised Mennonite, and I don't agree with them 100%... I just was trying to make a case from their viewpoint, and honestly most of them will tell you that if someone was threatening to use deadly force against them or a loved one, they just might strike back, although I did read that they would feel it was a sin to do so, so they would feel remorseful about it.

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #148 on: November 13, 2008, 07:49:46 PM »

I don't think that's anything he's getting at at all...there are times to defend ourselves...but using something that shouldn't even exist shouldn't be promoted.

I would never want to have anyone dead because I claim I am defending myself...I would want to pray to God that both of us would end up staying alive.

You may need to read back a few thread pages.

Robert

Offline Mac

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #149 on: November 13, 2008, 07:51:50 PM »
The thing is...I had made an honest mistake.  But had this happened in the US instead of Canada, do you think that I could have been shot and killed that night?  This is a serious question here.  Please give me your honest opinion.

Yes. You could have been shot and/or killed. Sad? Yes. Unavoidable? Yes. But sadly, we live in a day and age where if you take the time to ask, "Hey, are you in this house to cause me harm?", you and your family can be dead. So, if it would have happened, they probably would have been devastated. They would have been charged and probably found guilty of a crime. Anywhere from murder to involuntary manslaughter.

But the bigger question is this; What would you have done if it would have been you in that house in the middle of the night with your wife and kids depending on you to protect them? It isn't as clear cut as you think.