GCM Home | Bible Search | Rules | Donate | Bookstore | RSS | Facebook | Twitter

Author Topic: Should Christians Own Guns?  (Read 144877 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sopranette

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3775
  • Manna: 107
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2008, 02:28:43 PM »
And the ladies, too, Robert.

love,

Sopranette
*Link Removed*
A true adventure!

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2008, 02:28:43 PM »

Offline RAMS

  • Behold the Gold
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 513
  • Manna: 15
  • Gender: Male
  • Myself, New Mexico
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2008, 02:58:42 PM »
And the ladies, too, Robert.

love,

Sopranette

Yes, dear maiden, yes yes.

I oft times in rescues am reminded of your words above.  I find myself like in Majahual whereby I lost a few teeth in a scruffle with an Australian ex-pat who would not leave a maiden friend of mine alone, and I had to intervene.  I ask him to stop. He hit me and knocked out a bunch of my teeth.  I responded with hitting him in the face with a beer mug.  It occurred in my eatery place of 'Tina's Cantina', in Majahual, where I often repast and have a beer.

The bandito is still in the hospital in Tulum, now, 5 months later, and I wish him well.

But the maiden, Sierra Maja, 23, is fine and afterwards as she and her girlfriend Maria Terrie, was nursing my bloody mouth and face said, "you are wild and a warrior, Robert, but if I had a gun I would have shot him for you and saved your poor face and teeth......."

Maidens, historically, live by the same mantra as my salutation to Gary and Corbley, and your post is confirmation for that, and I do thank you. It surprises me in that this culture here is so bereft of passion and heart it is unusual for a maiden to address such as you have.

Thank you, dearest and my hat is tipped to you and a kiss stolen and put upon your cheek!......

(and I am here in the northwest US for repairs and now have new implant teeth. Good.)

Hail, to you........

Robert








« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 04:00:17 PM by RAMS »
Robert A.M. Stephens,  LLC ®
NASA Fine Art Documentation Program
Aztec-Maya Gold Expedition
*Link Removed*
________________________________________
Have Jeep, Have Horse, Have Heart, Will Travel

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #46 on: November 11, 2008, 02:58:42 PM »

Offline sopranette

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 3775
  • Manna: 107
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2008, 03:25:38 PM »
Thanks, Robert. 

I get a little annoyed at the anti-gun people who say we really don't need anything for self defense, because they are already safe.  Well, my question to them is, who, besides God, is protecting you?  The ones who are carrying legally, that's who.  The police, the military, even your next door neighbor is making sure you are safe to go about your daily business.  Especially for women, self defense is something all people should learn and practice.

love,

Sopranette
*Link Removed*
A true adventure!

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #47 on: November 11, 2008, 03:25:38 PM »

Offline RAMS

  • Behold the Gold
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 513
  • Manna: 15
  • Gender: Male
  • Myself, New Mexico
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2008, 04:01:57 PM »
True.  Live by the gun, love by the cross


Robert
Robert A.M. Stephens,  LLC ®
NASA Fine Art Documentation Program
Aztec-Maya Gold Expedition
*Link Removed*
________________________________________
Have Jeep, Have Horse, Have Heart, Will Travel

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #48 on: November 11, 2008, 04:01:57 PM »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

Offline Corbley

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1438
  • Manna: 58
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2008, 04:57:16 PM »
To Gary and Corbley,

It is so much lost now in the ides of new ageism and a roman indulgence type of begin upon the plain in that folks simply do not understand the real deal, in 80% of the planet.

I see it in all my travels, and the world is very very empty place, contrary to the nonsense demon like mantra of CNN and other media about resources, overcrowding, earth warming, etc etc etc. It is gibberish and it is wrong.

I travel to the far sides of the world. The Earth is adroit at producing banditos, great evil roaming the ethers of our lands and world. I have survived by the law of Jeremiah and Isaiah, and lived to see another day. There is wonder out on the wasteland. And there is great travail.

I have resorted to having to defend my life to the death and have threatened same, and will do so as it is required.

I also often times shoot for my food in places where I have none.  I bled out, butcher, and cook on fire, my food and eat with relish what the Lord provides me.

I am thankful that both of you men understand this and live by the gun, love by the cross.

Hail to you both, fellow warriors upon the plain.

Robert

I bet you have some fantastic stories of your travels.....You should write a book...If you haven't already

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #49 on: November 11, 2008, 04:57:16 PM »



Offline RAMS

  • Behold the Gold
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 513
  • Manna: 15
  • Gender: Male
  • Myself, New Mexico
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #50 on: November 11, 2008, 05:38:22 PM »



I bet you have some fantastic stories of your travels.....You should write a book...If you haven't already


Well, thanks to Double Day and the fact they own some of my paintings, am doing just that. Preliminary title thus far for drafts and slush pile submission requests by them is:

"Behold The Gold"
The Search for Balboa's Gold, A Grand And Disturbing Adventure

DoubleDay's By-line, off record:

"The true story of Robert A.M. Stephens, from unemployed cowboy out of Montana, to astronaut candidate to be the first artist in space. A true story of one mans journey from a life in rural Montana to traveling and seeking the quest for love and adventure to the far sides of the world and back."

"Seeking gold, treasure, fighting Muslin extremists in Asia, walking through China before it was open to the west, living on the razor's edge in Inner Mongolia and all points on the compass in between. The adventure of a lifetime and as Mr. Stephens says at age 56, ' the voyage is only half over'." 

"Robert A.M. Stephens is the living embodiment of Indiana Jones, wearing his fedora from 'Raiders of the Lost Ark', a personal gift from Harrison Ford after the actor bought two of his paintings.  His travels, travails, great personal loss and tragedy, great triumphs against overwhelming odds, and his conviction to never give up, makes for a modern day Don Quixote and Ghengis Kahn mixed into one."

"Stephens fought Conjestive Heart Failure from a scuba diving mishap with NASA and survived, healed then went on to keep diving, adventuring, and still runs with the wind as few men do. A tale of conviction laced with resolve.  The Artist-Archeologist-Adventurer makes his Home in Majahual, Quintana Roo, Yucatan."

bla bla bla........

The tome is due out in 2011, in May, but is in the 'can' as they say before their publicity announcement, and Paramont is discussing the movie rights.

We will see.  Very nice, but just noise in life is all.

But I still want to find Pizarro's and Balboa's Gold........

Robert




« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 06:23:17 PM by RAMS »
Robert A.M. Stephens,  LLC ®
NASA Fine Art Documentation Program
Aztec-Maya Gold Expedition
*Link Removed*
________________________________________
Have Jeep, Have Horse, Have Heart, Will Travel

Offline chosenone

  • Global Moderator
  • King James Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22163
  • Manna: 468
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #51 on: November 11, 2008, 06:47:33 PM »
of course we have crime here but mainly with knives, While knives are terrible and often kill, guns are far more lethal becuase so many can be killed in one go wheras a knife cant. Also we all have to have knives for cooking etc so it would be impossible to ban them.
Sure about that?


UK Guardian: Kitchen knife ban sought


Quote
Accident and emergency doctors today call for the banning of long, sharp kitchen knives, arguing they account for at least half of all stabbings.

They say such knives slice through clothing and penetrate vital organs.

"Many assaults are impulsive, often triggered by alcohol or misuse of other drugs, and the long, pointed kitchen knife is an easily accessible, potentially lethal weapon, particularly in the domestic setting," say the doctors from the West Middlesex university hospital, London, in the British Medical Journal.

----------

"UK government statistics show that 24% of all 16-year-old boys report carrying knives or other weapons, and 19% admitting attacking someone with the intent to cause harm.

"Although other weapons - such as baseball bats, screwdrivers and chains - are also carried, by far the most common weapons are knives."



people in all countries wiil carry knives whether we also have guns or not. however, knives cannot be stopped because they are not made for killing but for other purposes, Guns, however, are made for one purpose and that is to kill. I am very grateful to live somewhere where guns are not owned or used except by very strict criteria. I have never seen a gun, owned a gun, or ever known anyone who has and the cases of shooting here in the uk are still very rare, so rare that the story would be on the national news if there was a shooting.
I have absulutely no understanding of why anyone would ever want to have or use a gun, except in a war situation where you are fighting an enemy who is evil such as in the two world wars or whatever.

There was a recent tragic case here, where a man who had permission to have a gun (I dont know why, he was very wealthy and probably used it for shooting animals i guess on his large estate) . he had financial problems and shot his wife, his teenage daughter, their three dogs and their three pet horses and then himself . without a gun he couldnt have done this. maybe he still would have killed himself somehow, but the other would be still alive.
In Him I live and move and have my being.

My determined purpose is that I may know Him - that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly."

It is by Grace we have been saved though Faith and not by works so that no one can boast.

Offline RAMS

  • Behold the Gold
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 513
  • Manna: 15
  • Gender: Male
  • Myself, New Mexico
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2008, 06:54:54 PM »
[

people in all countries wiil carry knives whether we also have guns or not. however, knives cannot be stopped because they are not made for killing but for other purposes, Guns, however, are made for one purpose and that is to kill. I am very grateful to live somewhere where guns are not owned or used except by very strict criteria. I have never seen a gun, owned a gun, or ever known anyone who has and the cases of shooting here in the uk are still very rare, so rare that the story would be on the national news if there was a shooting.
I have absulutely no understanding of why anyone would ever want to have or use a gun, except in a war situation where you are fighting an enemy who is evil such as in the two world wars or whatever.

There was a recent tragic case here, where a man who had permission to have a gun (I dont know why, he was very wealthy and probably used it for shooting animals i guess on his large estate) . he had financial problems and shot his wife, his teenage daughter, their three dogs and their three pet horses and then himself . without a gun he couldnt have done this. maybe he still would have killed himself somehow, but the other would be still alive.

You are in gross error.  Please correct such an inane statement.

The first firearm, a matchlock, over 500 years ago, and 90% of all firearms since, are produced and sold for For Getting Food!.

You are here as a human being, typing away, because of a firearm or many and those men that in brevity used them to stead back the forces of travail and tyranny.

Consider this immutable fact.

Robert



« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 07:38:58 PM by RAMS »
Robert A.M. Stephens,  LLC ®
NASA Fine Art Documentation Program
Aztec-Maya Gold Expedition
*Link Removed*
________________________________________
Have Jeep, Have Horse, Have Heart, Will Travel

Offline chosenone

  • Global Moderator
  • King James Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22163
  • Manna: 468
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2008, 07:27:08 PM »
[

people in all countries wiil carry knives whether we also have guns or not. however, knives cannot be stopped because they are not made for killing but for other purposes, Guns, however, are made for one purpose and that is to kill. I am very grateful to live somewhere where guns are not owned or used except by very strict criteria. I have never seen a gun, owned a gun, or ever known anyone who has and the cases of shooting here in the uk are still very rare, so rare that the story would be on the national news if there was a shooting.
I have absulutely no understanding of why anyone would ever want to have or use a gun, except in a war situation where you are fighting an enemy who is evil such as in the two world wars or whatever.

There was a recent tragic case here, where a man who had permission to have a gun (I dont know why, he was very wealthy and probably used it for shooting animals i guess on his large estate) . he had financial problems and shot his wife, his teenage daughter, their three dogs and their three pet horses and then himself . without a gun he couldnt have done this. maybe he still would have killed himself somehow, but the other would be still alive.

You are in gross error.  Please correct such an inane statement.

The first firearm, a matchlock, over 500 years ago, and 90% of all firearms since, are produced and sold for For Getting Food!.

You are here as a human being, typing away, because of a firearm or many and those men that in brevity used them to stead back the forces of travail and tyranny.

Robert

 

Robert




We do not need guns we really can live without them you know. they are for killing whether it be humans or animals. your hospital emergency rooms are full of gunshot wound victims, especially in the cities. Countless thousands are shot each year in your cities. apart from in war, they are not needed. we manage without them, why cant you?
In Him I live and move and have my being.

My determined purpose is that I may know Him - that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and more clearly."

It is by Grace we have been saved though Faith and not by works so that no one can boast.

Offline Bon Voyage

  • Global Moderator
  • Lee's Inner Circle Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16049
  • Manna: 408
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2008, 07:31:41 PM »
[

people in all countries wiil carry knives whether we also have guns or not. however, knives cannot be stopped because they are not made for killing but for other purposes, Guns, however, are made for one purpose and that is to kill. I am very grateful to live somewhere where guns are not owned or used except by very strict criteria. I have never seen a gun, owned a gun, or ever known anyone who has and the cases of shooting here in the uk are still very rare, so rare that the story would be on the national news if there was a shooting.
I have absulutely no understanding of why anyone would ever want to have or use a gun, except in a war situation where you are fighting an enemy who is evil such as in the two world wars or whatever.

There was a recent tragic case here, where a man who had permission to have a gun (I dont know why, he was very wealthy and probably used it for shooting animals i guess on his large estate) . he had financial problems and shot his wife, his teenage daughter, their three dogs and their three pet horses and then himself . without a gun he couldnt have done this. maybe he still would have killed himself somehow, but the other would be still alive.

You are in gross error.  Please correct such an inane statement.

The first firearm, a matchlock, over 500 years ago, and 90% of all firearms since, are produced and sold for For Getting Food!.

You are here as a human being, typing away, because of a firearm or many and those men that in brevity used them to stead back the forces of travail and tyranny.

Robert

 

Robert




We do not need guns we really can live without them you know. they are for killing whether it be humans or animals. your hospital emergency rooms are full of gunshot wound victims, especially in the cities. Countless thousands are shot each year in your cities. apart from in war, they are not needed. we manage without them, why cant you?

Because the United States is a lot different than the UK. 

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2008, 07:31:41 PM »

Offline Snargles

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1598
  • Manna: 43
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2008, 07:33:01 PM »
Thanks, Robert. 

I get a little annoyed at the anti-gun people who say we really don't need anything for self defense, because they are already safe.  Well, my question to them is, who, besides God, is protecting you?  The ones who are carrying legally, that's who.  The police, the military, even your next door neighbor is making sure you are safe to go about your daily business.  Especially for women, self defense is something all people should learn and practice.

love,

Sopranette

Ever hear "If God is for us who can be against us"? If God is protecting us why do we need anyone else? If you want to live forever you might need some protection but if you are just putting in your time on earth until you receive your reward, don't worry about protecting yourself with a gun.

Offline RAMS

  • Behold the Gold
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 513
  • Manna: 15
  • Gender: Male
  • Myself, New Mexico
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #56 on: November 11, 2008, 07:39:55 PM »
Bizarre.

Robert
Robert A.M. Stephens,  LLC ®
NASA Fine Art Documentation Program
Aztec-Maya Gold Expedition
*Link Removed*
________________________________________
Have Jeep, Have Horse, Have Heart, Will Travel

MegaJedi

  • Guest
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #57 on: November 11, 2008, 08:31:23 PM »
To ask this question, you should ask the people back in the Time of David, "Should followers of GOD (The CHRISTians before  CHRIST came to earth) if theu should have owned spears.  The answer in my mind (again like you said for protection/selfdefence) is yes.

Offline Charles Sloan

  • Prisoner of Grace
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5404
  • Manna: 2209
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #58 on: November 11, 2008, 08:51:41 PM »
Can this be justified by Scripture, or is this just your personal beliefs apart from the Bible?


Yes.


Okay...

The underlying argument for gun control seems to be that the availability of guns causes crime. By extension, the availability of any weapon would have to be viewed as a cause of crime. What does the Bible say about such a view?


No sir, the question was about Christians owning and using guns in self-defense not gun control.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php/topic,30416.msg569959.html#msg569959

Strawman.

Perhaps we should start at the beginning, or at least very close to the beginning -- in Genesis 4. In this chapter we read about the first murder. Cain had offered an unacceptable sacrifice, and Cain was upset that God insisted that he do the right thing. In other words, Cain was peeved that he could not do his own thing.

Cain decided to kill his brother rather than get right with God. There were no guns available, although there may well have been a knife. Whether it was a knife or a rock, the Bible does not say. The point is, the evil in Cain's heart was the cause of the murder, not the availability of the murder weapon.

God's response was not to ban rocks or knives, or whatever, but to banish the murderer. Later (see Genesis 9:5-6) God instituted capital punishment, but said not a word about banning weapons.


Like I said, this discussion was never about gun control.

Exodus 22:2-3 tells us "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."


I wonder with your application of Exodus, would you also advocate the practice stoning your children to death for disobedience, gluttony or drinking? (Deu 21:18-21) Or would you agree that homosexuals should be put to death? (Lev 18:22, 29) Or would you support bringing back slavery today? (Exd 21)

If you are going to just cherry pick verses to support your opinion it might be safer to just admit its just your opinion.
Blessed is every one that feareth the LORD; that walketh in his ways.
For thou shalt eat the labour of thine hands: happy shalt thou be, and it shall be well with thee.
Thy wife shall be as a fruitful vine by the sides of thine house: thy children like olive plants round about thy table.  — Psalm 128:1-3

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name. — Psalm 138:2

Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man. — Colossians 4:6

Offline Jimbob

  • Global Moderator
  • King James Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 21530
  • Manna: 439
  • Gender: Male
  • vigil et audax
    • View Profile
Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #59 on: November 11, 2008, 09:02:08 PM »
You're creating a red herring there, Charles.  It's the principle brought up in Ex. not the letter of the law.  The principle is that there is a time when self-defense is justifiable.  No one's advocating stoning, but the principles are still true that adultery, gluttony, drunkenness (they were stoned for drunkenness, not drinking, btw) and homosexuality are sinful, and unacceptable among the people of God.  Are you really open-mindedly asking a question here, or asking for the purpose of shooting down (pun intended) one side of the discussion?
“Only he who believes is obedient and only he who is obedient believes.”
- Dietrich Bonhoeffer

“Followers of Jesus don't get to decide if they will be missionaries. They just get to choose where.”
- Rick Atchley