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Author Topic: Should Christians Own Guns?  (Read 145367 times)

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mikeyjc

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #150 on: November 13, 2008, 08:11:15 PM »
The thing is...I had made an honest mistake.  But had this happened in the US instead of Canada, do you think that I could have been shot and killed that night?  This is a serious question here.  Please give me your honest opinion.

Yes. You could have been shot and/or killed. Sad? Yes. Unavoidable? Yes. But sadly, we live in a day and age where if you take the time to ask, "Hey, are you in this house to cause me harm?", you and your family can be dead. So, if it would have happened, they probably would have been devastated. They would have been charged and probably found guilty of a crime. Anywhere from murder to involuntary manslaughter.

But the bigger question is this; What would you have done if it would have been you in that house in the middle of the night with your wife and kids depending on you to protect them? It isn't as clear cut as you think.

I don't think that I would want to shoot someone with a gun with the intent to kill.  I do like the idea of tasers though.  But then again, up here some people have died after being tasered by the police.  Scary.

I dunno...but I think that I would feel just a little bit safer if I had a taser--just in case.  But you know what intrigues me about this thread?  It's probably over 1,000 now who have viewed this topic and the reponses are what? 150?  Gun toting Christians--hot topic!

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #150 on: November 13, 2008, 08:11:15 PM »

Offline Mac

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #151 on: November 13, 2008, 08:53:03 PM »
I don't think that I would want to shoot someone with a gun with the intent to kill.  I do like the idea of tasers though.  But then again, up here some people have died after being tasered by the police.  Scary.

I may not have the intent to kill, but I would want to stop what is happening. But I can't say that for sure. Let's say that I came home to find some one hurting my wife or my children...I can assure you that I will have no problems in putting an end to it. Whether that be with a gun or with my bare hands. The problem then becomes, "In your anger do not sin". Did I sin, when protecting my wife or children?

The bible also tells us that there is no greater sacrifice than a man who would lay down his life for a friend. So, what do I do? Nothing? I am afraid not. I would stop the assault at all cost. His life, my life, what ever it took. And you know what, my wife and children deserve that from me.

I dunno...but I think that I would feel just a little bit safer if I had a taser--just in case.  But you know what intrigues me about this thread?  It's probably over 1,000 now who have viewed this topic and the reponses are what? 150?  Gun toting Christians--hot topic!

Now, that is funny there...I don't care who you are..That's funny.

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #151 on: November 13, 2008, 08:53:03 PM »

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #152 on: November 13, 2008, 10:36:44 PM »
I don't think that I would want to shoot someone with a gun with the intent to kill.  I do like the idea of tasers though.  But then again, up here some people have died after being tasered by the police.  Scary.


I may not have the intent to kill, but I would want to stop what is happening. But I can't say that for sure. Let's say that I came home to find some one hurting my wife or my children...I can assure you that I will have no problems in putting an end to it. Whether that be with a gun or with my bare hands. The problem then becomes, "In your anger do not sin". Did I sin, when protecting my wife or children?




Wow, Mac, what a great post. I do so salute you.  On pages 7,8,9 I have disclosed a little bit about scenarios I have found myself in Central America when I must cross into Nicaragua from Honduras and there, banditos, Marxists, ripped on Cocaine threaten to extract a 'toll' on public roads and stop me and want to threaten with death should I not comply.  I have gotten into shoot and loots there with them a few times and death ensued.

It is not often over the last 35 years that I have trafficked south to run into this, but it occurs. Normally the threat of the bic lighter and the gas cans on my Jeep will tone it down to a tolerable impasse.

From my travels all the way down to Terra del Fuego at the end of the world, seldom is there trouble, but I WILL NOT go through Colombia anymore -  choosing to put me and my Jeep and army trailer on a freighter at Panama and come into Caracas VZ, then head south from there.

Suffice to say, I am and have and will defend myself to the death, so that I may live another day, to love and lead others to the Lord.

It is the way of things, in places where men answer to the angels of their lesser calling.

Again, wonderful post of yours and I so thank you for posting your conviction on such.

Robert




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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #152 on: November 13, 2008, 10:36:44 PM »

Offline Mac

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #153 on: November 14, 2008, 12:19:20 AM »
Wow, Mac, what a great post. I do so salute you.  On pages 7,8,9 I have disclosed a little bit about scenarios I have found myself in Central America when I must cross into Nicaragua from Honduras and there, banditos, Marxists, ripped on Cocaine threaten to extract a 'toll' on public roads and stop me and want to threaten with death should I not comply.  I have gotten into shoot and loots there with them a few times and death ensued.

It is not often over the last 35 years that I have trafficked south to run into this, but it occurs. Normally the threat of the bic lighter and the gas cans on my Jeep will tone it down to a tolerable impasse.

From my travels all the way down to Terra del Fuego at the end of the world, seldom is there trouble, but I WILL NOT go through Colombia anymore -  choosing to put me and my Jeep and army trailer on a freighter at Panama and come into Caracas VZ, then head south from there.

Suffice to say, I am and have and will defend myself to the death, so that I may live another day, to love and lead others to the Lord.

It is the way of things, in places where men answer to the angels of their lesser calling.

Again, wonderful post of yours and I so thank you for posting your conviction on such.

Robert

Thanks Robert. I read all of this thread and I find it quite amazing that people feel the way they do about guns and self preservation. I really makes you stop and think.

When I read of your "travels", I was very intrigued. I too, thought this would be a good read. So, I was interested when I saw that you were working on a manuscript.

I do have one question though..Do you get the authorities involved after these "run ins" with the Marxist? I have just heard that it is difficult to be treated fairly that deep into Central America. I would be interested in hearing about it.

God Bless,
Mac

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #153 on: November 14, 2008, 12:19:20 AM »

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #154 on: November 14, 2008, 01:19:17 AM »


Thanks Robert. I read all of this thread and I find it quite amazing that people feel the way they do about guns and self preservation. I really makes you stop and think.

When I read of your "travels", I was very intrigued. I too, thought this would be a good read. So, I was interested when I saw that you were working on a manuscript.

I do have one question though..Do you get the authorities involved after these "run ins" with the Marxist? I have just heard that it is difficult to be treated fairly that deep into Central America. I would be interested in hearing about it.

God Bless,
Mac

Yes, I do.  In Colombia, on my last travel through nearly 10 years ago it was awful. In that case I didn't even make it 20km in country before trouble. The FARC was as bad as it is now and it was a shoot and loot with the Colombian army involved as well. It was a disaster and had gotten worse steadily in the 5 years prior. Finally, after that last go around and having to reverse our of Colombia, I never trafficked through there again.

For Honduras into Nicaragua it is different in that if there is a shoot and loot the authorities are summoned on SS Band-CB and they arrive or are nearby and we unpack what happened.  I am fully bilingual so that is very very helpful.  Thereafter, the policia is after these banditos as well so  they tend to be thankful it was resolved as it was.

That is the only area, as mentioned, where this sort of thing happens.  There are other dangerous places but generally I can get out of it with the big lighter trick and some somokes or beer and then discussion on what the issue really is:  They are not banditos, marxists, insurgents, etc, but like all men, men who want work, food and women.  Frustrated men with a loathsome socialist-Catholic based governing power that is dire at best.

Hope that is helful and thank you for your inquiry and good words.

Robert



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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #154 on: November 14, 2008, 01:19:17 AM »



Offline Mac

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #155 on: November 14, 2008, 01:44:12 AM »
Yes, I do.  In Colombia, on my last travel through nearly 10 years ago it was awful. In that case I didn't even make it 20km in country before trouble. The FARC was as bad as it is now and it was a shoot and loot with the Colombian army involved as well. It was a disaster and had gotten worse steadily in the 5 years prior. Finally, after that last go around and having to reverse our of Colombia, I never trafficked through there again.

For Honduras into Nicaragua it is different in that if there is a shoot and loot the authorities are summoned on SS Band-CB and they arrive or are nearby and we unpack what happened.  I am fully bilingual so that is very very helpful.  Thereafter, the policia is after these banditos as well so  they tend to be thankful it was resolved as it was.

That is the only area, as mentioned, where this sort of thing happens.  There are other dangerous places but generally I can get out of it with the big lighter trick and some somokes or beer and then discussion on what the issue really is:  They are not banditos, marxists, insurgents, etc, but like all men, men who want work, food and women.  Frustrated men with a loathsome socialist-Catholic based governing power that is dire at best.

Hope that is helful and thank you for your inquiry and good words.

Robert

Thanks for the information. I hope it goes to print. I would like to read about it further. Take care.

God Bless,
Mac

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #156 on: November 14, 2008, 02:00:46 AM »
Fantastic and I love this sort of exchange. I hope you come back tomorrow if you are heading off to bed. This is very rewarding to me and so glad Lee sent me over here from his other single's site. 

Your input and past post are a joy to review and take in and would wish to know more about you as well.

Post some more and you have a good way of dissent as well, which is refreshing.

How old are you Mac, and how long have you been saved in Christ?

Robert



Offline Mac

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #157 on: November 14, 2008, 02:13:04 AM »
Fantastic and I love this sort of exchange. I hope you come back tomorrow if you are heading off to bed. This is very rewarding to me and so glad Lee sent me over here from his other single's site. 

Your input and past post are a joy to review and take in and would wish to know more about you as well.

Post some more and you have a good way of dissent as well, which is refreshing.

How old are you Mac, and how long have you been saved in Christ?

Robert

I am 39. I have been saved for 21 years. How about you?

Offline RAMS

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #158 on: November 14, 2008, 02:49:51 AM »
I am 56. I was saved on May 9th, 1972,  38 years ago, thus my blood birthday and spiritual birthday are the same.  It is easy then so I do not forget either!

I celebrate both annually.

I love your comments, BTW,  to our new guest- Alex.  Well stated.

Robert



Offline jb728b

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #159 on: November 14, 2008, 10:21:07 AM »
So can I own a sword?  If a thief breaks in instead of using a gun I can go medieval on him with a sword.  It's not a gun.  How about a baseball bat could I use that?  Maybe I can push him out of a window would that make you feel better?  How about just beating him up?   I can't cast out demons but I can beat the devil out of him.

It is nothing short of circular thinking to equate and inanimate object such as a gun with an intent to go on a shooting rampage. 

Believe it or not a person can own a gun without the motive of blowing peoples heads of on a whim. Yeah you can kill someone with a gun but you can kill a person with just about anything if your creative enough.

If a person has emotionally crossed the line and was intent of killing I doubt that the lack of a gun would be much of a deterrent.

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #159 on: November 14, 2008, 10:21:07 AM »

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #160 on: November 14, 2008, 10:26:38 AM »
I am 56. I was saved on May 9th, 1972,  38 years ago, thus my blood birthday and spiritual birthday are the same.  It is easy then so I do not forget either!

I celebrate both annually.

I love your comments, BTW,  to our new guest- Alex.  Well stated.

Robert



I have read all of the post on this thread; After reading. I still have a question.
Personally, I would use a gun to defend myself, my family or anyone that could not defend themselves. If It were to result in the death of another. I would certainly, be instantly on my knees, begging Gods forgiveness. Which, I know he would forgive me for (Because, I did not want to take a life)

My question though: Goes back to the Garden, when the soldiers, came to seize Christ.
Peter, grabbed a sword and cut off the ear of one of the soldiers Right?

How did Peter get that sword? Did he grab it from one of the soldiers or was did he carry it the whole time, while following Christ?   I think this is relevent to this conversation...
Because, if he carried it the whole time, that would mean Christ does allow for us to defend ourselves in any manner required. Even by force....If he stole it from the soldier, then was it Peter's own anger and desire to protect the Lord, that provoked the Attack?

Does anyone know any verses that would, indicate, whether, it was Peter's sword or taken from a soldier?

Offline jb728b

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #161 on: November 14, 2008, 10:31:43 AM »
I am 56. I was saved on May 9th, 1972,  38 years ago, thus my blood birthday and spiritual birthday are the same.  It is easy then so I do not forget either!

I celebrate both annually.

I love your comments, BTW,  to our new guest- Alex.  Well stated.

Robert



I have read all of the post on this thread; After reading. I still have a question.
Personally, I would use a gun to defend myself, my family or anyone that could not defend themselves. If It were to result in the death of another. I would certainly, be instantly on my knees, begging Gods forgiveness. Which, I know he would forgive me for (Because, I did not want to take a life)

My question though: Goes back to the Garden, when the soldiers, came to seize Christ.
Peter, grabbed a sword and cut off the ear of one of the soldiers Right?

How did Peter get that sword? Did he grab it from one of the soldiers or was did he carry it the whole time, while following Christ?   I think this is relevent to this conversation...
Because, if he carried it the whole time, that would mean Christ does allow for us to defend ourselves in any manner required. Even by force....If he stole it from the soldier, then was it Peter's own anger and desire to protect the Lord, that provoked the Attack?

Does anyone know any verses that would, indicate, whether, it was Peter's sword or taken from a soldier?

Well here is what Jesus said:

Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #162 on: November 14, 2008, 10:37:07 AM »

Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

For what purpose did Jesus tell his followers to buy a sword?

A: For decoration
B: He liked bling
C: It brought out the color in their eyes
D: Self defense

Offline Charles Sloan

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #163 on: November 14, 2008, 10:37:46 AM »
No slant in those choices...

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Re: Should Christians Own Guns?
« Reply #164 on: November 14, 2008, 10:40:35 AM »
I am 56. I was saved on May 9th, 1972,  38 years ago, thus my blood birthday and spiritual birthday are the same.  It is easy then so I do not forget either!

I celebrate both annually.

I love your comments, BTW,  to our new guest- Alex.  Well stated.

Robert



I have read all of the post on this thread; After reading. I still have a question.
Personally, I would use a gun to defend myself, my family or anyone that could not defend themselves. If It were to result in the death of another. I would certainly, be instantly on my knees, begging Gods forgiveness. Which, I know he would forgive me for (Because, I did not want to take a life)

My question though: Goes back to the Garden, when the soldiers, came to seize Christ.
Peter, grabbed a sword and cut off the ear of one of the soldiers Right?

How did Peter get that sword? Did he grab it from one of the soldiers or was did he carry it the whole time, while following Christ?   I think this is relevent to this conversation...
Because, if he carried it the whole time, that would mean Christ does allow for us to defend ourselves in any manner required. Even by force....If he stole it from the soldier, then was it Peter's own anger and desire to protect the Lord, that provoked the Attack?

Does anyone know any verses that would, indicate, whether, it was Peter's sword or taken from a soldier?

Well here is what Jesus said:

Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

So does this mean to say, that all of the Apostles carried swords?