Author Topic: Expletive, without apologies.  (Read 1065 times)

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Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #35 on: Wed Mar 31, 2021 - 10:49:25 »
So follow up with forced vaccines? Electronic passports? RFIDs?
One of these things is not like the others...

I understand the objection to forced vaccination or RFIDs, but why would electronic passports be objectionable, exactly?

Offline Rella

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #36 on: Wed Mar 31, 2021 - 10:58:16 »
When submitting to governing authority would cause us to violate the revealed Will of God 

Then you are defying

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.






In Acts the apostles were ordered to not teach about Jesus, but the Lord specifically ordered them to do just that starting in Jerusalem. 
In the times of the Maccabees, Jews were ordered by Antiochus to worship Zeus.  So Matthew, Judah and the brothers had to revolt against that.

Offline DaveW

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #37 on: Wed Mar 31, 2021 - 11:20:21 »
Then you are defying

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Actually I am not defying that at all.  Paul wrote that when Nero was in Rome, and Nero HATED christians.  Loved to feed them to lions or use them to train gladiators.  When he burned down Rome it was on the pretense that it was Christians who started the fires.

Paul said to be subject to him and resisting him was resisting God.

Offline Rella

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #38 on: Wed Mar 31, 2021 - 11:47:08 »
Actually I am not defying that at all.  Paul wrote that when Nero was in Rome, and Nero HATED christians.  Loved to feed them to lions or use them to train gladiators.  When he burned down Rome it was on the pretense that it was Christians who started the fires.

Paul said to be subject to him and resisting him was resisting God.

Paul said to be subject to him and resisting him was resisting God.

An argument  could be made that when you said  "When submitting to governing authority would cause us to violate the revealed Will of God." that when under Nero
Christians would have gone the Nero way and avoided the will of God.

Or maybe this is just a Fatherly "spare the Rod" thing for us to have to live through these punishment  things.

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #38 on: Wed Mar 31, 2021 - 11:47:08 »
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Offline Alan

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #39 on: Wed Mar 31, 2021 - 11:47:25 »
One of these things is not like the others...

I understand the objection to forced vaccination or RFIDs, but why would electronic passports be objectionable, exactly?


An electronic passport is basically an RFID. The biometric chip is fully adaptable to new implementations, depending on the current set of security measures in place. I'm not necessarily comfortable with the data vulnerabilities of e-passports or the ability to be tracked while the passport is in my possession. 

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #39 on: Wed Mar 31, 2021 - 11:47:25 »



Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #40 on: Fri Apr 09, 2021 - 12:15:11 »
Yep.   But the second surge was also lower than in states without mask mandates.   Michigan's infection rate per 1 million people is 71,333.    US average is 93,056.    Average for states without mask mandates, last time I checked, was about 105,000.   Directly observable! 

Makes sense.   Your infection rate is much lower than average.   More direct observable data that masks are much more effective than some people think.

The saying goes, "every little bit helps," but in this case, it was enough to significantly reduce infections.   Michigan was a demonstration of that fact.   Like I said, directly observable.

The above post didn't age well.

Michigan is leading the country in new cases per capita.  Masks works so well!    rofl  All those restrictions are working so well.   rofl



https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2021/04/as-virus-surges-michigan-leaders-say-people-should-stay-out-of-restaurants.html
« Last Edit: Fri Apr 09, 2021 - 12:20:50 by Texas Conservative »

Offline Jaime

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #41 on: Fri Apr 09, 2021 - 14:06:36 »
Directly and observably so.  ::geek::

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #42 on: Fri Apr 09, 2021 - 21:59:01 »
Yep.   But the second surge was also lower than in states without mask mandates.   Michigan's infection rate per 1 million people is 71,333.    US average is 93,056.    Average for states without mask mandates, last time I checked, was about 105,000.   Directly observable!

Makes sense.   Your infection rate is much lower than average.   More direct observable data that masks are much more effective than some people think.

The saying goes, "every little bit helps," but in this case, it was enough to significantly reduce infections.   Michigan was a demonstration of that fact.   Like I said, directly observable.

The above post didn't age well.

Sounds like a testable belief.   As you know, you were telling me that Michigan's infection rate was lower than it actually turned out to be.   That misunderstanding aside, you've also assumed that "weather is climate."   (confusing short-term changes with long-term rates)

Let's see how it works now...

Presently, Michigan's infection rate is 81,393 per million people.   The national average for the United States is 96,080.    Michigan's record is a little less than 85% of the national average.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

As you learned last time, this site keeps up with the actual state reports.

As of last Monday, the average for states with no mask mandate was about 103,000 per million, and for states with mask mandates it was about 70,000 per million.

Feel free to recalculate from today's data; it won't have changed significantly for reasons you could probably see, if you thought about it.
 
« Last Edit: Fri Apr 09, 2021 - 22:05:07 by The Barbarian »

Offline Amo

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #43 on: Sat Apr 10, 2021 - 14:07:55 »
Oy! Enough with the "directly observable"  already.

Can anyone show that wearing a mask properly INCREASES risk?  No.

Can anyone show that wearing a mask violates scripture or makes the wearer disobey God?  No.

So wear the mask already!

1 Peter 2:13-15
Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, 14 or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right. 15 For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.


No. I do not and will not ware a mask. Accepting at a hospital or elderly home perhaps. Nor has God commanded anyone anywhere to bow to petty dictatorial government of self appointed elitist leaders who are themsleves violating the Constitution of the nation they are falsely claiming to serve in doing so. This issue is exactly about either faith in God, or in the extremely faulty sciences of fallen humanity. You have a right not to see it that way, but if you choose to support liberty crushing dictatorial elitist government based upon their own faulty conclusions of what should be, then you will share their guilt in judgement from God. The majority of all in this world will suffer judgement and death exactly because they just went along with evil liberty crushing elitist government exercising might over right. Supporting the small steps of abusive government which lead directly to totally abusive government, is simply supporting abusive government. All who do so will in fact burn in the lake of fire.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Every step toward elitist government over and above the people, and away from constitutional government for and by the people, is a step toward the government of the beast power described in the scriptures above. There will be no excuse for those who have supported the same, when the Lord returns to put down all rule save His own.



« Last Edit: Sat Apr 10, 2021 - 14:10:09 by Amo »

Offline Amo

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #44 on: Sat Apr 10, 2021 - 14:15:28 »
Yep.   But the second surge was also lower than in states without mask mandates.   Michigan's infection rate per 1 million people is 71,333.    US average is 93,056.    Average for states without mask mandates, last time I checked, was about 105,000.   Directly observable!

Makes sense.   Your infection rate is much lower than average.   More direct observable data that masks are much more effective than some people think.

The saying goes, "every little bit helps," but in this case, it was enough to significantly reduce infections.   Michigan was a demonstration of that fact.   Like I said, directly observable.

Sounds like a testable belief.   As you know, you were telling me that Michigan's infection rate was lower than it actually turned out to be.   That misunderstanding aside, you've also assumed that "weather is climate."   (confusing short-term changes with long-term rates)

Let's see how it works now...

Presently, Michigan's infection rate is 81,393 per million people.   The national average for the United States is 96,080.    Michigan's record is a little less than 85% of the national average.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

As you learned last time, this site keeps up with the actual state reports.

As of last Monday, the average for states with no mask mandate was about 103,000 per million, and for states with mask mandates it was about 70,000 per million.

Feel free to recalculate from today's data; it won't have changed significantly for reasons you could probably see, if you thought about it.

At least Barb, you are satisfied in your own mind, that you have taught so many so much. As is obvious by your profuse us of the term, as you have learned, when supposedly informing others of what they do not know. Nevertheless, I believe you are deceived, and serve no one or thing any higher than fallen human presumption.   

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #45 on: Sat Apr 10, 2021 - 16:22:30 »
At least Barb, you are satisfied in your own mind, that you have taught so many so much.

It comes down to facts, doesn't it?   You're entitled to your opinions, but not to your own facts.

Quote
Nevertheless, I believe you are deceived, and serve no one or thing any higher than fallen human presumption.

Funny how those who are deceived, never think that it's them, um?    Maybe you should deal with the facts, instead of trying to read minds.    You're not particularly good at it.


 

Offline Amo

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #46 on: Sat Apr 10, 2021 - 18:22:06 »
It comes down to facts, doesn't it?   You're entitled to your opinions, but not to your own facts.

Funny how those who are deceived, never think that it's them, um?    Maybe you should deal with the facts, instead of trying to read minds.    You're not particularly good at it.

No actually, that is not very funny, rather sad of course. If the deceived knew that they were deceived, they would no longer be deceived. Of course no one thinks it is them, if or when they arrived at that conclusion, they would no longer be deceived.

As far as the supposed facts you speak of go, they themselves are constantly in dispute as well. Many supposed "scientific" facts or otherwise throughout history have had to be revised or scrapped altogether after new knowledge or evidence demands such. This is not even to mention declared facts that never were the same, or even deliberate deception concerning supposed facts. The supposed sciences of climate change and the plandemic are good examples of what is passed off as fact today by those simply wishing certain things to be so. So be it.
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 11, 2021 - 07:47:22 by Amo »

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #47 on: Sun Apr 11, 2021 - 02:33:04 »
It matters that it is directly observable  ::crackup:: that some here repeat what they google, as long as it fits the media narrative.  They wrap that up in pseudo-intellectualism, while never bothering to investigate the actual data.

Not long ago, I had to show you that your "data" on Michigan infections was completely wrong.   You were careless in your googling.    Especially when some site tells you want you really want to be true, that's the time to be very careful.   Because that's when you're easiest to fool. 

In that case, directly observable.   ::preachit::

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #48 on: Sun Apr 11, 2021 - 02:44:29 »
It comes down to facts, doesn't it?   You're entitled to your opinions, but not to your own facts.

Funny how those who are deceived, never think that it's them, um?    Maybe you should deal with the facts, instead of trying to read minds.    You're not particularly good at it.

No actually, that is not very funny, rather sad of course.

You can fix it.   Just be more careful before you post.

Quote
If the deceived knew that they were deceived, they would no longer be deceived.

"Populus vult decipi; decipiatur ergo" - Roman saying attributed to Petronius.   "The people wish to be deceived; therefore, deceive them."    There's a streak of that in every nation.

Quote
As far as the supposed facts you speak of go, they themselves are constantly in dispute as well.

That kind of post-modernist blather is merely clumsy excuse.  There is an objective reality, and we can learn about it by investigation.

Many supposed "scientific" facts peddled by non-scientists have been debunked by new knowledge as evidence accumulates. Mostly, they were declared facts that never were the same, or even deliberate deception concerning supposed facts.  The denial of climate change and the claim that the pandemic was a "hoax" are good examples of what is passed on as fact today by those simply wishing certain things to be so.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #49 on: Sun Apr 11, 2021 - 07:25:43 »
That kind of post-modernist blather is merely clumsy excuse. 
Barbarian, even you must know that post-modernist blather is a signature characteristic of the Left.

Offline Rella

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #50 on: Sun Apr 11, 2021 - 07:41:18 »
Barbarian, even you must know that post-modernist blather is a signature characteristic of the Left.

And Barbarian is truly a consummate example of a blatherskite. So yes, he knows.

Offline 4WD

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #51 on: Sun Apr 11, 2021 - 07:57:15 »
The denial of climate change and the claim that the pandemic was a "hoax" are good examples of what is passed on as fact today by those simply wishing certain things to be so.
There is virtually no denial of climate change.  That there actually is such wide spread denial is the real "hoax" in the politics of climate change.  And nearly the entire discussion going on about climate change is political not scientific.

Offline Amo

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #52 on: Sun Apr 11, 2021 - 09:06:01 »
It comes down to facts, doesn't it?   You're entitled to your opinions, but not to your own facts.

Funny how those who are deceived, never think that it's them, um?    Maybe you should deal with the facts, instead of trying to read minds.    You're not particularly good at it.

You can fix it.   Just be more careful before you post.

"Populus vult decipi; decipiatur ergo" - Roman saying attributed to Petronius.   "The people wish to be deceived; therefore, deceive them."    There's a streak of that in every nation.

That kind of post-modernist blather is merely clumsy excuse.  There is an objective reality, and we can learn about it by investigation.

Many supposed "scientific" facts peddled by non-scientists have been debunked by new knowledge as evidence accumulates. Mostly, they were declared facts that never were the same, or even deliberate deception concerning supposed facts.  The denial of climate change and the claim that the pandemic was a "hoax" are good examples of what is passed on as fact today by those simply wishing certain things to be so.

What exactly are you referring to regarding reading minds? When did I attempt to read someones mind?

We can go over the same points regarding supposed facts again and again if you want, but it will not change the outcome. All sides of many issues cry that the facts support their views, yet there is no agreement. Evolution and creation are prime examples. The evidence is the fact which can be observed by all, the interpretation of the evidence is where everything gets blurred. Apart from this though, many have been known to play with the evidence itself unto deception. This has been proved at least once that I know of, concerning the climate change issue. We also know well that the tests for Covid are and have been highly inaccurate, as well as the recorded deaths supposedly due to the plandemic. I say again, the supposed facts, are not necessarily so, in this world of sin and woe. God will straighten all of this out though when He returns. 

Quote
"Populus vult decipi; decipiatur ergo" - Roman saying attributed to Petronius.   "The people wish to be deceived; therefore, deceive them."    There's a streak of that in every nation.

The above is certainly true, but it is not just a streak, according to scripture it is or will be the vast majority of humanity. They will choose to believe lies, and therefore God will give them up wholly to deception. I suppose therefore, that it is not that the deceived do not know they are deceived, but rather that they will not admit they are deceived. Eventually coming to believe the lies they have chosen to be true.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

No one is saying that climate change or the plandemic are hoaxes. This too is a manipulation of the facts, that a false argument might be built upon this faulty premise. Climate change is and has always happened, as it always will. It never meant the end of the world before, and it does not now. The fear mongering politics and power grabs by unelected elitist religious and political leaders working together is the farce. They have and are causing far more problems for humanity in doing the same, than any climate change going on. They are fear mongering power hungry liars, using created crisis concerning things that have always taken place on this planet, to place themselves above all on earth as the self declared and exalted leaders and savior of the same. And you agree with and support them, which makes it appear that you are one of them. Therefore it seems, are you here constantly arguing and defending their positions and therefore cause.

Pandemics have always taken place in this fallen world as well. There is no denial of pandemics, or even this Corona virus, though there certainly is suspicion regarding its origins and rightly so. Your faulty premise does not properly apply to this issue either. It is the same problem as the climate change issue. What the fear mongering power hungry religious and political leaders are doing to the world in relation to the virus is far worse for humanity than the virus itself. They are liars, using natural phenomena which has always occurred to create undue panic and crisis which they are using as an excuse to take complete control of humanity as the self proclaimed and exalted leaders of the same. You appear to be one of their minions, defending their actions built upon their hyper sensitized fear mongering created crisis politics demanding as they say, immediate and radical change. Change which leaves them in greater power over the entire world, none of whom elected or asked for their leadership or any of the change they are demanding. Do I need to supply you with the endless calls for all of the above from your Pope? Go to the SDA board and read the many many articles, papal Encyclicals, Doctrinal Notes, and otherwise I have quoted and addressed for years now on the Roman politics thread. Your Pope has recently called for people to directly use the corona virus pandemic as a time to demonstrate and bring about radical systemic change in society. I could go on and on, but the material is there for all to see who desire to know the truth of the matter.

The Catholic church is a political machine right in the middle of this whole globalist movement, calling for all of the radical changes in our government and the entire world's, which we are presently witnessing. You appear to be one of their minions on these boards defending and supporting the same. Shall we turn this thread into another one quoting the leaders of your church regarding all of the same? Will you acknowledge these facts if I present them to you from the words of your own leaders written in their countless documents addressing the politics of this world? Obviously not, you either are ignorant of the same, or I presume would ignore them. Nevertheless, you are on these boards presenting their same faulty premises and arguments. Of course climate change and pandemics exist, which no one is denying. It is the fear mongering politics and power grabs by wicked religious and political leaders that many are denying as necessary or truthful practice.

I tell you the truth Barb. All of this is nothing more than preemptive stikes by the evil one himself, and his minions on this earth. He knows in fact, that serious climate change and pandemic like we have never seen is coming soon upon this world, because the scriptures have said it will be so near the end. All of this is just setting up the great we told you so by the satanic, fear mongering, power hungry, self elected, self exalted, pretend saviors of this world. Who themselves have enough faith in scripture to make these evil preparations for what is surely coming according to the sure word of God. We haven't seen anything yet. Far from saving anyone, Satan's elites are ripening this world for mass destruction by the judgments of God, for presuming authority over others which belongs to God alone. Just as their leader did in heaven before he was cast out of the same.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. 21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. 22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD. 23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.

The above is the fate of this world as lead by Babylon and the kings of this earth, who have presumed to exercise authority which belongs to God alone. The religious and political leaders of this new world order being set up right now in front of our faces, are not the saviors they claim to be at all, but rather the forerunners of the complete destruction of this world by the judgments of God. So be it, come Lord Jesus.

Rev 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. 6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. 7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. 8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
« Last Edit: Sun Apr 11, 2021 - 09:21:52 by Amo »

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #53 on: Sun Apr 11, 2021 - 11:34:01 »
Barbarian, even you must know that post-modernist blather is a signature characteristic of the Left.

The notion that truth is whatever the narrative makes it, sounds more like QAnon than the left.    BTW, post-modernists tend to disparage science as "elitist", so there is that, too.


Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Expletive, without apologies.
« Reply #54 on: Sun Apr 11, 2021 - 11:40:52 »
There is virtually no denial of climate change. 

Here are the members of Congress who have questioned human-caused climate change
https://www.businessinsider.com/climate-change-and-republicans-congress-global-warming-2019-2?op=1

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That there actually is such wide spread denial is the real "hoax" in the politics of climate change.

Those guys seem pretty emphatic in their denial.    There may not be much denial among scientists and engineers, but lots of it among politicians.

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And nearly the entire discussion going on about climate change is political not scientific.

True.   We're talking mostly about the echo chamber effect,where people only listen to sources that agree with them.

 

     
anything