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Offline AVZ

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1855 on: Mon Jan 15, 2018 - 04:16:41 »
Since neither of these has anything to do with salvation, it's understandable why He didn't tell us about them.

Removed comment; pointless.
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 15, 2018 - 04:23:12 by AVZ »

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1855 on: Mon Jan 15, 2018 - 04:16:41 »

Online 4WD

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1856 on: Mon Jan 15, 2018 - 05:29:52 »
It does matter who or what you believe about creation. Choosing to believe that which contradicts the scriptures is choosing faith in another.
But that is not at all what this is about.  This is about what a few, including you Amo, think contradicts the Scriptures.  Nothing more and nothing less.  It is not about what the Scriptures say, it is about what you, Amo, think it means by what it says.  And although perhaps being interesting, it has nothing whatsoever to do with "faith in another".  You, whether you believe it or not, are not the author, the measure or the decider for "another faith". I know that just rips you apart, but so be it.
« Last Edit: Mon Jan 15, 2018 - 07:33:49 by 4WD »

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1856 on: Mon Jan 15, 2018 - 05:29:52 »

Online Alan

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1857 on: Mon Jan 15, 2018 - 07:26:02 »
Quote from: Michael2012
I wouldn't know if I were not taught in school. The ancients did not know that either. What they and I know is what I see and experience the sun to be. I see it rises and go down.

That's reasonable, and so it would also make the Genesis accounts reasonably narrated without the certainty of scientific explanation that we can see clearly today, that in itself is the entire emphasis of this topic.

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1858 on: Wed Jan 17, 2018 - 12:32:39 »
But that is not at all what this is about.  This is about what a few, including you Amo, think contradicts the Scriptures.  Nothing more and nothing less.  It is not about what the Scriptures say, it is about what you, Amo, think it means by what it says.  And although perhaps being interesting, it has nothing whatsoever to do with "faith in another".  You, whether you believe it or not, are not the author, the measure or the decider for "another faith". I know that just rips you apart, but so be it.

Yea, I'm torn all to pieces. It's such a confusing and difficult matter isn't it?

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,......................................................................
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


No way to clearly understand such an extremely complex statement, just mind boggling stuff you know. Did God really come down and say those words to Israel, or is that just a fairly tale as well? Of course we simply don't know, I mean how could we know just because the bible simply states it that way, right?

This much is true, I choose to believe what scripture simply states about creation as it is by faith. I am not, and I would not force it upon all in our public schools as fact that they must acknowledge as the truth. Yes, I believe and defend the scriptures as truth, but I do not force my faith upon others as evolutionists have, do, and no doubt will continue to do.


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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1858 on: Wed Jan 17, 2018 - 12:32:39 »

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1859 on: Wed Jan 17, 2018 - 12:46:51 »
Quote
I wouldn't know if I were not taught in school. The ancients did not know that either. What they and I know is what I see and experience the sun to be. I see it rises and go down.

Actually, some did.   

Aristarchus of Samos (/ˌærəˈstɑːrkəs/; Greek: Ἀρίσταρχος ὁ Σάμιος, Aristarkhos ho Samios; c. 310 – c. 230 BC) was an ancient Greek astronomer and mathematician who presented the first known model that placed the Sun at the center of the known universe with the Earth revolving around it (see Solar system). He was influenced by Philolaus of Croton, but Aristarchus identified the "central fire" with the Sun, and he put the other planets in their correct order of distance around the Sun.[1] Like Anaxagoras before him, he suspected that the stars were just other bodies like the Sun, albeit further away from Earth. He was also the first one to deduce the rotation of earth on its axis. His astronomical ideas were often rejected in favor of the incorrect geocentric theories of Aristotle and Ptolemy. Nicolaus Copernicus attributed the heliocentric theory to Aristarchus.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1859 on: Wed Jan 17, 2018 - 12:46:51 »



Online Michael2012

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1860 on: Wed Jan 17, 2018 - 20:46:53 »
Quote
I wouldn't know if I were not taught in school. The ancients did not know that either. What they and I know is what I see and experience the sun to be. I see it rises and go down.
Actually, some did.   

Aristarchus of Samos (/ˌærəˈstɑːrkəs/; Greek: Ἀρίσταρχος ὁ Σάμιος, Aristarkhos ho Samios; c. 310 – c. 230 BC) was an ancient Greek astronomer and mathematician who presented the first known model that placed the Sun at the center of the known universe with the Earth revolving around it (see Solar system). He was influenced by Philolaus of Croton, but Aristarchus identified the "central fire" with the Sun, and he put the other planets in their correct order of distance around the Sun.[1] Like Anaxagoras before him, he suspected that the stars were just other bodies like the Sun, albeit further away from Earth. He was also the first one to deduce the rotation of earth on its axis. His astronomical ideas were often rejected in favor of the incorrect geocentric theories of Aristotle and Ptolemy. Nicolaus Copernicus attributed the heliocentric theory to Aristarchus.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarchus_of_Samos

Would you say the writer of Ecclesiastes knew?

With regards Aristarchus of Samos, what does he have at the time, a thought, a suspicion, a hypothesis, a theory, a fact, or truth?

The article speaks of Aristarchus of Samos as a Greek astronomer and mathematician. He most probably was not a Jew, but was a Greek Gentile. And so, most probability still, he was a pagan or an atheist, or a polytheist. But one thing may be certain about him, he was one who has the greater worldly wisdom at his time.

Nonetheless, at the time of the apostles, from about 230-300+ years after Aristarchus, here's what Scriptures says:

Romans 1:14 I am obligated both to Greeks and non-Greeks, both to the wise and the foolish.

1 Corinthians 1:20-22
20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom,

Blessed are we, that we aren't those who demand signs and aren't those who look for wisdom. but are those who have faith in God, even in His word in scriptures.

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1861 on: Thu Jan 18, 2018 - 06:57:15 »
Do you really think God had to wait for Newton to finally explain the truth of gravity to us? 

Maybe He left some things for us to find out for ourselves.   Since neither of these has anything to do with salvation, it's understandable why He didn't tell us about them.

Of course He left things for us to figure out ourselves, we have to if it is as you believe, that God's word is not dependable. If we cannot believe the testimony of scripture regarding that which it exactly addresses, then it is unreliable and we are dependent upon ourselves to know and understand these things, or some self acclaimed expert like well, an evolutionist. Thus the evolutionist is to be regarded as above the scriptures regarding truths they deem scripture is insufficient to address. Therefore also is the evolutionist exalted above the word of God in their own eyes, and the eyes of all who submit to their self proclaimed superiority.

The presumption of evolutionists may believe that we needed Newton to explain gravity to us. The creationist understands that most if not all of our present "discoveries" or scientific "enlightenment" are nothing new at all. They are just the slow accumulation of knowledge humanity already had prior to their destruction by the flood. Lost knowledge slowly being regained. Somewhat different to that of the ancients in that the world itself is far different, and the humans before the flood were had superior size, strength, life span, and intellect. Our knowledge and advancements are according to the inferior world we inherited, and the inferior size, strength, life span, and intellect due to de-evolution as well. The knowledge surmised and conclusions drawn concerning our past are vastly different between those who trust the scriptures and those who trust their own understanding. These two will never agree. They are motivated and lead by two opposing powers.
« Last Edit: Thu Jan 18, 2018 - 07:00:18 by Amo »

Online 4WD

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1862 on: Thu Jan 18, 2018 - 07:24:42 »
Yea, I'm torn all to pieces. It's such a confusing and difficult matter isn't it?

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,......................................................................
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.


No way to clearly understand such an extremely complex statement, just mind boggling stuff you know. Did God really come down and say those words to Israel, or is that just a fairly tale as well? Of course we simply don't know, I mean how could we know just because the bible simply states it that way, right?

This much is true, I choose to believe what scripture simply states about creation as it is by faith. I am not, and I would not force it upon all in our public schools as fact that they must acknowledge as the truth. Yes, I believe and defend the scriptures as truth, but I do not force my faith upon others as evolutionists have, do, and no doubt will continue to do.

Here are just a few verses speaking of the "Ends of the Earth"  Please Amo, without giving us a bunch of mumbo jumbo of figurative descriptions, give us the literal meaning of the "Ends of the Earth" giving particular attention to the meaning of the word "ends".

Isa 40:28  Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired. His understanding is inscrutable.
 
Isa 41:5  The coastlands have seen and are afraid; the ends of the earth tremble; They have drawn near and have come.
 
Isa 41:9  You whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, And called from its remotest parts And said to you, 'You are My servant, I have chosen you and not rejected you.

Isa 43:6  "I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' And to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring My sons from afar And My daughters from the ends of the earth,

Isa 45:22  "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.

Isa 52:10  The LORD has bared His holy arm In the sight of all the nations, That all the ends of the earth may see The salvation of our God.

Jer 16:19  O LORD, my strength and my stronghold, And my refuge in the day of distress, To You the nations will come From the ends of the earth and say, "Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood, Futility and things of no


I can give you some more if you like.

Online Alan

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1863 on: Thu Jan 18, 2018 - 09:14:45 »
Here are just a few verses speaking of the "Ends of the Earth"  Please Amo, without giving us a bunch of mumbo jumbo of figurative descriptions, give us the literal meaning of the "Ends of the Earth" giving particular attention to the meaning of the word "ends".

Isa 40:28  Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired. His understanding is inscrutable.
 
Isa 41:5  The coastlands have seen and are afraid; the ends of the earth tremble; They have drawn near and have come.
 
Isa 41:9  You whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, And called from its remotest parts And said to you, 'You are My servant, I have chosen you and not rejected you.

Isa 43:6  "I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' And to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring My sons from afar And My daughters from the ends of the earth,

Isa 45:22  "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.

Isa 52:10  The LORD has bared His holy arm In the sight of all the nations, That all the ends of the earth may see The salvation of our God.

Jer 16:19  O LORD, my strength and my stronghold, And my refuge in the day of distress, To You the nations will come From the ends of the earth and say, "Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood, Futility and things of no


I can give you some more if you like.


But all of those verses are using the term "ends of the earth" figuratively.  ::crackup::

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1864 on: Thu Jan 18, 2018 - 09:41:39 »

But all of those verses are using the term "ends of the earth" figuratively.  ::crackup::

My point precisely.

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1865 on: Thu Jan 18, 2018 - 12:42:06 »
Quote
Would you say the writer of Ecclesiastes knew?

Maybe.  Maybe not.  If he made a mistake in that regard, did it in any way change the message that He was conveying from God?   

Quote
With regards Aristarchus of Samos, what does he have at the time, a thought, a suspicion, a hypothesis, a theory, a fact, or truth?

Well, he had a thought.   That became an hypothesis when he realized that he could test it with observations.  When he tested it and his hypothesis was verified by the facts he gathered, it then qualified as a theory.   As you might know, a theory is a well-tested and confirmed idea that explains a phenomenon.  Hence, the Earth revolving around the Sun is a fact and Heliocentrism is the theory that explains it.

Quote
The article speaks of Aristarchus of Samos as a Greek astronomer and mathematician. He most probably was not a Jew, but was a Greek Gentile. And so, most probability still, he was a pagan or an atheist, or a polytheist. But one thing may be certain about him, he was one who has the greater worldly wisdom at his time.

Sure.  And while it's important to know about nature, so as to live in this world, the Author of Ecclesiastes was telling us about God and His ways.

Offline tooldtocare

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1866 on: Thu Jan 18, 2018 - 17:24:36 »
Aliens planted the seed of life on this planet just like we are going to do sometime in the future. That is if we do not blow ourselves up first.
& that seed was DNA
 ::tippinghat::

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1867 on: Thu Jan 18, 2018 - 17:30:39 »
Aliens planted the seed of life on this planet just like we are going to do sometime in the future. That is if we do not blow ourselves up first.
& that seed was DNA
 ::tippinghat::

You got some great weed.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1868 on: Thu Jan 18, 2018 - 18:46:03 »
You got some great weed.


I think it's Tide Pods

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1869 on: Fri Jan 19, 2018 - 04:55:18 »
Aliens planted the seed of life on this planet just like we are going to do sometime in the future. That is if we do not blow ourselves up first.
& that seed was DNA
 ::tippinghat::
And who created the Aliens?  Other Aliens? 

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1870 on: Fri Jan 19, 2018 - 08:13:31 »
Quote
And who created the Aliens?  Other Aliens?

Very clever of you.  But it's aliens all the way down.


 

Offline Carey

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1871 on: Fri Jan 19, 2018 - 08:45:00 »
Aliens planted the seed of life on this planet just like we are going to do sometime in the future. That is if we do not blow ourselves up first.
& that seed was DNA
 ::tippinghat::
::headscratch::
Nope, the aliens wrote the simulation we find ourselves in though, just like we are going to do sometime in the future.  So technically we cannot really blow ourselves up. 
Quote from: TC
You got some great weed.
We got the best weed in Canada.
 rofl
« Last Edit: Fri Jan 19, 2018 - 08:51:55 by Carey »

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1872 on: Fri Jan 19, 2018 - 09:10:09 »
Here are just a few verses speaking of the "Ends of the Earth"  Please Amo, without giving us a bunch of mumbo jumbo of figurative descriptions, give us the literal meaning of the "Ends of the Earth" giving particular attention to the meaning of the word "ends".

Isa 40:28  Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired. His understanding is inscrutable.
 
Isa 41:5  The coastlands have seen and are afraid; the ends of the earth tremble; They have drawn near and have come.
 
Isa 41:9  You whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, And called from its remotest parts And said to you, 'You are My servant, I have chosen you and not rejected you.

Isa 43:6  "I will say to the north, 'Give them up!' And to the south, 'Do not hold them back.' Bring My sons from afar And My daughters from the ends of the earth,

Isa 45:22  "Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other.

Isa 52:10  The LORD has bared His holy arm In the sight of all the nations, That all the ends of the earth may see The salvation of our God.

Jer 16:19  O LORD, my strength and my stronghold, And my refuge in the day of distress, To You the nations will come From the ends of the earth and say, "Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood, Futility and things of no


I can give you some more if you like.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

First, what does the term ends of the earth whether figurative or literal have to do with the fourth commandment, which does not use the term at all? Second, the commandment is to specific to b taken in the figurative sense. The Lord made heaven, earth, sea, and all that is in or on them, in six days. Third, the ten commandments are absolutes from God not figurative or symbolic representations for speculation, though certainly embodying principles to be expounded upon. According to scripture they are a straight testimony from the mouth of God confirming that the Genesis creation account is a literal description and not figurative or symbolic in nature. All of this you deny by the faith you have chosen which blatantly contradicts this scriptural testimony. On top of that, your belief maligns the character of God by establishing that God commanded and enforced a law built and based upon an event that did not even happen. He punished individuals and an entire nation several times over for not believing or acknowledging this command which was and is to be observed by faith concerning an event which never really even happened. This is your testimony about the God of the bible according to your misplaced faith.

Unless of course the events recorded in Exodus are not true, and all the events connected with the Sabbath issue are not true either. So then, according to your misplaced faith, the creation account of scripture is not true and therefore also all scriptural testimony confirming it. That is quite a bit of scripture. Then of course the flood account of scripture is not true and therefore also all events recorded connected with it and scriptural testimony confirming it. That again, is quite a bit of scripture. Now apparently, the account of God descending upon the mountain and speaking the ten commandments to Israel is in serious question as well, since one of those commands backs up the creation account and is said to be spoken by the mouth of God Himself, who cannot lie. Therefore also all other events concerning the Sabbath command are also in serious question and all scripture which seems to confirm it. That again is a whole lot of scripture. You have chosen a faith which under increasingly close examination, increasingly attacks and destroys faith in the testimony of scripture. Now even the longest of God's ten commandments identifying exactly who He is, and His right to authority over all the earth and creation, is basically trashed by the faith which you have chosen.

So what is your new theory along these lines 4WD? Is it that the creation account was only a limited event to a local area, and then evolution proceeded from that point? No, I guess that would be silly. So what are you trying to say? What are your implications concerning the fact that the term ends of the earth doesn't always mean the entire earth when used, in relation to the fourth commandment of God. Or is it as always, you simply cast doubt upon taking scripture for just what it says according to the faith you have chosen, without explaining or offering the alternate meaning of the same because you yourself do not even have one? Please do correct me if I am wrong. If I am not wrong, then you simply doubt God's word because of your faith in fallen humanities speculation over and above the same. You have no alternate explanation of the things you say are not true, you just choose to believe they are not true because you have chosen to believe that fallen humanities wisdom and insight is greater than that of the prophets of God. Again, please do correct if I am wrong and give your alternate version of all theses things you say are not literal. What do they represent then according to the testimony provided in scripture? Or was God completely incapable of revealing the truth of your faith in any way shape or form through the testimony He provided us, and had to wait for you and yours to do it for Him? You have evolved above God's abilities and can now tell us the truth, is that it? Please do expound and explain.

Perhaps I have missed the point you were trying to make all together, if so, please do expound. I take the term ends of the earth to mean all the earth. I see no problem with that application in the verses you quoted. So, what are you implying about the term, or what exactly is your point if I have missed it? Also, what does that point have to do with the fourth commandment, which does not use the term?

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1874 on: Fri Jan 19, 2018 - 09:25:56 »
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.  

AMO, How many hours are thene in that seveth day that God rested?

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1875 on: Fri Jan 19, 2018 - 09:39:47 »
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.  

AMO, How many hours are thene in that seveth day that God rested?

Can't be exactly certain. A biblical day is from evening unto evening. Today that is about 24 hours. As you know though, I believe there have been major changes in this world since the flood. The world was very different then which possibly included a different rate of the earths rotation. We simply do not know for sure, since we have not and cannot observe what was.

Offline AVZ

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1876 on: Fri Jan 19, 2018 - 12:53:15 »
Exo 20:11  For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.  

AMO, How many hours are thene in that seveth day that God rested?

24 hours.
Because the next day it was Sunday again.

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1877 on: Fri Jan 19, 2018 - 21:45:20 »
Quote
Can't be exactly certain. A biblical day is from evening unto evening. Today that is about 24 hours. As you know though, I believe there have been major changes in this world since the flood. The world was very different then which possibly included a different rate of the earths rotation. We simply do not know for sure, since we have not and cannot observe what was.


Actually, it's possible to know how long days were in the ancient past:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/97GL00234/pdf

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1878 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 05:18:23 »
Can't be exactly certain. A biblical day is from evening unto evening. Today that is about 24 hours. As you know though, I believe there have been major changes in this world since the flood. The world was very different then which possibly included a different rate of the earths rotation. We simply do not know for sure, since we have not and cannot observe what was.

Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.
Gen 2:2  By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.


There are many biblical scholars who contend that we are still in God's seventh day of rest.  There was, is and will be no more creation until that time when Christ returns and God creates the New Heavens and New Earth.  God continues to work, to make and do things, but He does not now create [ex nihilo]  From all of His creating He is resting according to the verses above.  I tend to agree with that observation. Which means that God's seventh day of rest is according to biblical counting about six thousand years and counting.

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1879 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 06:54:20 »
Actually, it's possible to know how long days were in the ancient past:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/97GL00234/pdf


Says the man who knows evolution is an established fact of our origin. One of the differences between "Christian" evolutionists and creationists is of course in regards to where they place their faith. Creationists tend to place more faith in the word of God, evolutionists in the word of "scientists". I'm not overly concerned with exactly how long a day was prior to the flood, though I do accept that detailed by scripture, that a day is from evening to evening. Evolutionists of course who do not believe there ever was a global flood and put a great deal of faith in "scientists" who generally do not believe such either, are likely to believe whatever they are told by the same. Still, even many scientists know and acknowledge that the world of long ago was different than this present one.

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1880 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 06:58:57 »
Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.
Gen 2:2  By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.


There are many biblical scholars who contend that we are still in God's seventh day of rest.  There was, is and will be no more creation until that time when Christ returns and God creates the New Heavens and New Earth.  God continues to work, to make and do things, but He does not now create [ex nihilo]  From all of His creating He is resting according to the verses above.  I tend to agree with that observation. Which means that God's seventh day of rest is according to biblical counting about six thousand years and counting.

Yes they do. Many of them believe in evolution as well. Many of them have been wrong in the past, and many of them argued with the truths presented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ when He was here on earth as one of us as well.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1881 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 07:31:29 »
Yes they do. Many of them believe in evolution as well. Many of them have been wrong in the past, and many of them argued with the truths presented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ when He was here on earth as one of us as well.
So how many days did God rest from all His work of creation?

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1882 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 07:34:51 »
Says the man who knows evolution is an established fact of our origin. One of the differences between "Christian" evolutionists and creationists is of course in regards to where they place their faith. Creationists tend to place more faith in the word of God, evolutionists in the word of "scientists". I'm not overly concerned with exactly how long a day was prior to the flood, though I do accept that detailed by scripture, that a day is from evening to evening. Evolutionists of course who do not believe there ever was a global flood and put a great deal of faith in "scientists" who generally do not believe such either, are likely to believe whatever they are told by the same. Still, even many scientists know and acknowledge that the world of long ago was different than this present one.
So you didn't read the article and probably wouldn't understand if you had.

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1883 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 08:52:12 »
Isa 40:17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity. 18 To whom then will ye liken God? or what likeness will ye compare unto him? 19 The workman melteth a graven image, and the goldsmith spreadeth it over with gold, and casteth silver chains. 20 He that is so impoverished that he hath no oblation chooseth a tree that will not rot; he seeketh unto him a cunning workman to prepare a graven image, that shall not be moved. 21 Have ye not known? have ye not heard? hath it not been told you from the beginning? have ye not understood from the foundations of the earth? 22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: 23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. 24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble. 25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. 26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth. 27 Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the Lord, and my judgment is passed over from my God? 28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. 29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength. 30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall: 31 But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

It is no surprise that as knowledge has increased in this world once again, which the bible predicted (Dan 12:4), the deceptive nature and character of humanities idols would increase as well. The cunning craftsman or "scientists" of today have erected the ideological idol of the theory of evolution rather than an actual statue of a false deity. While the idol worshippers of old crafted literal idols in representation of the false religions and god's they brought forth through their own imaginations in contradiction and rebellion against the word of God, many idol worshippers of today bow down to cunningly crafted theories devised through the speculative observations of their own imaginations in contradiction and rebellion against the word of God. These idol theories are better suited unto deception than the idols of old, and the "scientists" who crafted them can and do easily modify and adapt their theory as knowledge continues to increase, or evidence suggests is necessary. The result is identical to that of the idols of old though, a greater faith in the speculations and imaginings of fallen humanity, than that of the word of God. Some of these idol worshippers are atheists maintaining their own religion as scientific fact and denying the God of the bible. Others have taken the idol of evolution into their respective religions, as many a "Christian" evolutionist has as well amalgamating both religions into one.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

In the idols of old humanity bowed down and worshiped the creature above God, changing the incorruptible God into an image made like unto corruptible man. So to do evolutionists change the image of the creator God, into the image of the god of evolution devised in the darkness of their own imaginations. Exalting the speculations of humanity above the word of God. Declaring that life and humanity evolved by and into "birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things", rather than the special creation of God described in His word. Preaching that the God of creation and the god of evolution are one and the same. For "Christian" professing evolutionists, the word of God must conform to the dictates of the religion of evolution to maintain validity. Thus spawning another apostate form of religion built upon and or amalgamated with those portions of scripture acceptable to the perpetrators. Israel was guilty of doing this with the pagan religions during the old covenant. Christianity did the same early on during this new covenant and gave us the Roman Catholic church. Now the Roman Catholic church and individual members of all denominations practice the same with the religion of evolution. All of these amalgamations require the abandonment of certain and sometimes large portions of the Holy scriptures as truth. Thus do we increasingly see the results of the same described in the book of Romans quoted above increasingly permeating and polluting society. All with non stop increasing pressure for bible believing Christians to acknowledge the same as normal and acceptable behavior.

Prov 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. 9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


The law of God, the ten commandments are holy, just, good, and thereby also of course true.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1884 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 08:56:14 »
So how many days did God rest from all His work of creation?

The seventh day, as scripture plainly states. This is only unclear to those who need it to be so. Thus also God commanded the Sabbath to be observed one day a week on the seventh day.

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1885 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 09:23:36 »
So you didn't read the article and probably wouldn't understand if you had.

No I didn't. As I already stated, I am not very concerned exactly how long a day was when the world was first created compared to now, or whether there is any difference. A day is from evening to evening. I do know that all observations and or speculations relating to unobservable ages of the past, must include assumptions regarding particulars of how things were, since we simply cannot know all the details at present. To the contrary, that is what we are trying to figure out, and making speculations about. Most of those speculations, hypotheses, and or theories will remain just that. Apart from this, most will place their faith in either or. Biblical creationists place their faith in the word of God as it simply states, unless otherwise indicated by scripture itself, not speculations of humanity.

Your article refers to the precambrian period of supposed countless millions of years ago. I don't even believe in such a period promulgated by speculations of fallen humanity. My faith is in the word of God, not the speculations of fallen humanity. Without giving the article much attention, I presume it presumes that the world has gone along relatively unchanged for millions of years as well, as most evolutionists do. Again, scripture contradicts this false theory and even predicts those who would assume it.

2 Pet 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Why would I as one who places faith in scripture above the speculations of fallen humanity, remove that faith and place it upon the scoffers scripture itself predicted would come? I do not presume or believe that all things remain the same since creation, and therefore can provide a stable or consistent graph as it were, to which one can refer or calculate dependable scientific observations that would be reliable believing such to be so. All such speculations would be faulty according to my faith in God's word above fallen human speculations derived in contradiction to the plain testimony of the same.
« Last Edit: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 09:26:11 by Amo »

Offline tooldtocare

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1886 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 10:20:52 »
People, these loooooooooooooooooooong posts are drowning out the discussion.
Please cut them up if you really want folks to read them.
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Or Paraphrase the content
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 ::tippinghat::
« Last Edit: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 10:26:03 by tooldtocare »

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1887 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 11:30:20 »
People, these loooooooooooooooooooong posts are drowning out the discussion.
Please cut them up if you really want folks to read them.
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Or Paraphrase the content
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 ::tippinghat::

This is a message board, not face book, twitter, or phone texting. Those of us from the older side are a little more used to actual and even in depth conversations and debate. Were not of the modern one liner world, which quite frankly lacks depth and conviction.

Offline tooldtocare

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1888 on: Sat Jan 20, 2018 - 12:10:34 »
Yes I do  ::tippinghat::

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1889 on: Mon Jan 22, 2018 - 15:06:39 »
 Barbarian observes:
Actually, it's possible to know how long days were in the ancient past:
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/97GL00234/pdf

Quote
Says the man who knows evolution is an established fact of our origin.


No.  Evolution is not about the origin of life.   It describes how populations of living things change over time.   However, tidal rhthmites tell us how long the days were at the time the rythmites were laid down.   And hundreds of millions of years ago, days were shorter.   And we know why.   The Moon's gravitational pull on the Earth's oceans are slowing the Earth's rotation by a tiny, but measurable amount.   Since the amount of energy transferred to the Moon (which makes it move farther away because of the greater kinetic energy) depends on the amount of coastline, the rate of change has varied as continents split apart and move together.

Quote
One of the differences between "Christian" evolutionists and creationists is of course in regards to where they place their faith.


YE creationists, maybe.  They put their faith in man's modern re-interpretation of scripture, while OE creationists and theistic evolutionists tend to accept the Bible as it is.

No one with any sense puts "faith" in science.   It depends entirely on evidence.   Faith is the way you must accept God.

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Evolutionists of course who do not believe there ever was a global flood


Since the Bible doesn't say there was, it's not really a problem for anyone who accepts the Bible as it is.

 

 

     
anything