GCM Home | Your Posts | Rules | DONATE | Bookstore | Facebook | Twitter | FAQs


Author Topic: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?  (Read 54206 times)

th1b.taylor and 7 Guests are viewing this topic.


Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1995 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 01:02:04 »

Offline The Barbarian

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1381
  • Manna: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1996 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 04:29:24 »
Quote
I see ZERO scientific, concrete FACTS in the post.

You missed the links to the research:
Dating the rise of atmospheric oxygen

    A. Bekker, H. D. Holland, P.-L. Wang, D. Rumble III, H. J. Stein, J. L. Hannah, L. L. Coetzee & N. J. Beukes

    Nature volume 427, pages 117–120 (08 January 2004)
Abstract
Several lines of geological and geochemical evidence indicate that the level of atmospheric oxygen was extremely low before 2.45 billion years (Gyr) ago, and that it had reached considerable levels by 2.22 Gyr ago. Here we present evidence that the rise of atmospheric oxygen had occurred by 2.32 Gyr ago. We found that syngenetic pyrite is present in organic-rich shales of the 2.32-Gyr-old Rooihoogte and Timeball Hill formations, South Africa. The range of the isotopic composition of sulphur in this pyrite is large and shows no evidence of mass-independent fractionation, indicating that atmospheric oxygen was present at significant levels (that is, greater than 10-5 times that of the present atmospheric level) during the deposition of these units. The presence of rounded pebbles of sideritic iron formation at the base of the Rooihoogte Formation and an extensive and thick ironstone layer consisting of haematitic pisolites and oölites in the upper Timeball Hill Formation indicate that atmospheric oxygen rose significantly, perhaps for the first time, during the deposition of the Rooihoogte and Timeball Hill formations. These units were deposited between what are probably the second and third of the three Palaeoproterozoic glacial events.
 

...

Earth-Science Reviews
Volume 160, September 2016, Pages 220-239
The evolution of Earth's biogeochemical nitrogen cycle
Author links open overlay panelEva E.StüekenabcMichael A.KippaMatthew C.KoehleraRogerBuicka
Abstract
Nitrogen is an essential nutrient for all life on Earth and it acts as a major control on biological productivity in the modern ocean. Accurate reconstructions of the evolution of life over the course of the last four billion years therefore demand a better understanding of nitrogen bioavailability and speciation through time. The biogeochemical nitrogen cycle has evidently been closely tied to the redox state of the ocean and atmosphere. Multiple lines of evidence indicate that the Earth's surface has passed in a non-linear fashion from an anoxic state in the Hadean to an oxic state in the later Phanerozoic. It is therefore likely that the nitrogen cycle has changed markedly over time, with potentially severe implications for the productivity and evolution of the biosphere. Here we compile nitrogen isotope data from the literature and review our current understanding of the evolution of the nitrogen cycle, with particular emphasis on the Precambrian. Combined with recent work on redox conditions, trace metal availability, sulfur and iron cycling on the early Earth, we then use the nitrogen isotope record as a platform to test existing and new hypotheses about biogeochemical pathways that may have controlled nitrogen availability through time. Among other things, we conclude that (a) abiotic nitrogen sources were likely insufficient to sustain a large biosphere, thus favoring an early origin of biological N2 fixation, (b) evidence of nitrate in the Neoarchean and Paleoproterozoic confirm current views of increasing surface oxygen levels at those times, (c) abundant ferrous iron and sulfide in the mid-Precambrian ocean may have affected the speciation and size of the fixed nitrogen reservoir, and (d) nitrate availability alone was not a major driver of eukaryotic evolution.


There's a lot more.  If you read the summary, and don't bother checking the cited evidence, you'll never learn anything.


Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1996 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 04:29:24 »

Offline The Barbarian

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1381
  • Manna: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1997 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 04:34:37 »
Quote
So the experts say, so you believe. Of course there is the little problem of so many "experts" disagreeing among themselves. Shall we take a tour of the history of supposed experts, and how many of them and how often they were wrong.

So they have been wrong in the past.   We learn more as we go.  For example, Luther and Calvin insisted that the Sun goes around the Earth.   Fundamentalists in the United States argued that blacks were inferior to other people.   Many of them also argued against evolution.   Some still do.   And so on.  None of this means that there isn't a God.   It just means that they put their faith in a particular interpretation of scripture, and were wrong.

Quote
Once again, it comes back down to believing either the word of God is expert truth and testimony, or the observations of fallen humanity as the same. We place our faith in whom we trust.

It is important not to confuse one's opinions with God, as you see from the above facts.

 

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1998 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 05:23:28 »
God is light. Jesus is the light of the world.
So then, given that metaphor, why do you discount the rest of the Genesis account as metaphor also?

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1998 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 05:23:28 »

Offline Alan

  • I AM Canadian!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5683
  • Manna: 216
  • Gender: Male
  • Politically Incorrect
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1999 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 05:50:10 »
So then, given that metaphor, why do you discount the rest of the Genesis account as metaphor also?


BOOM!

Christian Forums and Message Board

Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #1999 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 05:50:10 »



Online Johnb

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 11877
  • Manna: 178
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2000 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 05:51:00 »
The eternal thread.  LOL

Offline Texas Conservative

  • Resident Board Genius
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7116
  • Manna: 270
  • My church is 100% right, Your church is 100% wrong
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2001 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 05:58:49 »
The eternal thread.  LOL

All of the participants already know I am 100% right and they are 100% wrong but they won't admit it.

Offline Alan

  • I AM Canadian!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5683
  • Manna: 216
  • Gender: Male
  • Politically Incorrect
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2002 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 06:09:32 »
All of the participants already know I am 100% right and they are 100% wrong but they won't admit it.


We've evolved since your views were presented  ::crackup::

Offline Jaime

  • (Pronounced Hi-Me, not Ja-Me)
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 32001
  • Manna: 688
  • Gender: Male
  • I AM A DEPLORABLE
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2003 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 10:44:05 »
There has to be a musical instruments connection here, right?

 ::intherain::


Offline Alan

  • I AM Canadian!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5683
  • Manna: 216
  • Gender: Male
  • Politically Incorrect
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2004 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 10:57:24 »
There has to be a musical instruments connection here, right?

 ::intherain::



Trouble maker  rofl



Offline Alan

  • I AM Canadian!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5683
  • Manna: 216
  • Gender: Male
  • Politically Incorrect
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2005 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 11:04:21 »
Evidently, this particular dinosaur lived at the same time as humans.

Related image

Offline Ginger Rella

  • 100% Christian .... 100% American.
  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1200
  • Manna: 113
  • PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN AND A DEPLORABLE TOO
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2006 on: Fri Mar 09, 2018 - 13:39:04 »

KiwiChristian

  • Guest
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2007 on: Sat Mar 10, 2018 - 00:08:17 »
Dino did  ::nodding::

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU-5jYfnJ2E

at least they got one thing right.

Man and dinosaurs have always lived together.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2008 on: Sat Mar 10, 2018 - 05:05:12 »
Man and dinosaurs have always lived together.
You know that how?  Because the KJV says so?  rofl

Offline Alan

  • I AM Canadian!
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5683
  • Manna: 216
  • Gender: Male
  • Politically Incorrect
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2009 on: Sat Mar 10, 2018 - 06:59:24 »

Man and dinosaurs have always lived together.


Good one!  rofl

Offline Texas Conservative

  • Resident Board Genius
  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7116
  • Manna: 270
  • My church is 100% right, Your church is 100% wrong
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2010 on: Sat Mar 10, 2018 - 07:50:02 »

Good one!  rofl

The dinosaurs still live, but evolved as a spacefaring civilization known as the Voth.  They left earth due to climate changes and ended up in the Delta quadrant of the milky way galaxy.

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
  • Manna: 23
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2011 on: Sat Mar 10, 2018 - 12:14:42 »
So then, given that metaphor, why do you discount the rest of the Genesis account as metaphor also?

It is not just a metaphor, though at times it is applied as such. There is the light which dispels darkness, the light which is truth and dispels ignorance and deception, and the light which destroys and consumes evil and the wicked. God is all of these in a very real and literal sense.

Ps 27:1 The Lord is my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the Lord is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Joh 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Joh 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


Those who trust in the Lord, the Light of the world are enlightened by His Spirit and testimony unto salvation. This is not just a metaphor but a spiritual reality and truth which will exist long after this present world is gone. That which is spiritual is real and eternal, that which is temporal is temporary and fading away. The deceptive darkness of the theory of evolution will perish along with the rest of this literal and temporal world when the Lord Jesus Christ returns and destroys the same by the brightness of his coming.

Ps 89:11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them. 12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name. 13 Thou hast a mighty arm: strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand. 14 Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne: mercy and truth shall go before thy face. 15 Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound: they shall walk, O Lord, in the light of thy countenance.

Ps 104:1 Bless the Lord, O my soul. O Lord my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty. 2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:

Eze 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Eze 8:1 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord God fell there upon me. 2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber. 3 And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.

Eze 10:1 Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne. 2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight 3 Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court 4 Then the glory of the Lord went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the Lord's glory.

Hab 3:3 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise. 4 And his brightness was as the light;[/]u he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power. 5 Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet. 6 He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Acts 22:6 And it came to pass, that, as I made my journey, and was come nigh unto Damascus about noon, suddenly there shone from heaven a great light round about me. 7 And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 8 And I answered, Who art thou, Lord? And he said unto me, I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom thou persecutest. 9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me. 10 And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do. 11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.

Acts 26:13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1 Joh 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Light is a visible physical attribute of God representative of the attributes of His character as well. It dispels ignorance and deception and is a consuming fire to sin as well.

Ps 90:8 Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.

Ps 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path………………
128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way. 129 Thy testimonies are wonderful: therefore doth my soul keep them. 130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. ]/u]14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.


God’s word is a lamp lighting the path unto salvation, while exposing sin and deception  eventually becoming a consuming fire unto the destruction of evil and the wicked. God’s light and word expose all darkness and deception and will destroy the same by His literal presence when He returns.

Matt 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:

Acts 12:6 And when Herod would have brought him forth, the same night Peter was sleeping between two soldiers, bound with two chains: and the keepers before the door kept the prison. 7 And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.

Exo 34:29 And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses' hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. 30 And when Aaron and all the children of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to come nigh him. 31 And Moses called unto them; and Aaron and all the rulers of the congregation returned unto him: and Moses talked with them. 32 And afterward all the children of Israel came nigh: and he gave them in commandment all that the Lord had spoken with him in mount Sinai. 33 And till Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face. 34 But when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded. 35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.


Even the angels of God and Moses himself shine forth with brightness just for being in the presence of the Lord. 

Isa 10:16 Therefore shall the Lord, the Lord of hosts, send among his fat ones leanness; and under his glory he shall kindle a burning like the burning of a fire. 17 And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day; 18 And shall consume the glory of his forest, and of his fruitful field, both soul and body: and they shall be as when a standard-bearer fainteth.

Matt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Lk 17:24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day. 25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. 26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 These 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


The literal presence of God will be an all consuming fire to sin, sinners, and their world when He returns. All the darkness of sin and deception will be destroyed by the brightness of our Lord’s presence. This will include all false religions and theories of human kind, including evolution. All who cling to such, are in danger of destruction when the Lord returns, and the second death in the lake of fire where all unrepentant liars will end up. None of this is a metaphor, it is all very real and will soon be realized.

Isa 60:19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the Lord shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. 20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. 21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. 22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the Lord will hasten it in his time.

Rev 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


God is light. He has, is, and will continue to be and provide eternal light for His people.

2 Pet 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The theory of evolution comes to us via the lusts and desires of the flesh of humanity, in the vanity of their pride in concluding they know and understand what transpired over billions of years concerning a slow development of life and eventually humanity which the bible neither depicts or supports in any way shape or form. They reject the destruction of this world by the flood which the scriptures and the above prophecy plainly state as fact, and insist that all things have continued the same according to the slow processes of evolution now for billions of years. If they allow for the destruction of this present world as the bible predicts because of sin, they are being strangely inconsistent having already rejected creation in a week and the destruction of the then world by the flood, I presume because such are to far fetched for them to allow for. If not, then they simply reject the plain testimony of scripture for that which they prefer of their own conjecture. They are fitly represented in the above prophecy, and I believe in grave danger of eternal damnation. May God convict their hearts and minds to place more faith in His written word than the vain speculations of fallen humanity.
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 10, 2018 - 12:16:52 by Amo »

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2012 on: Sat Mar 10, 2018 - 15:29:21 »
It is not just a metaphor, though at times it is applied as such. There is the light which dispels darkness, the light which is truth and dispels ignorance and deception, and the light which destroys and consumes evil and the wicked. God is all of these in a very real and literal sense.
You think God is made of photons.  Interesting perspective.  Silly, if not downright stupid, but what the hey; if that is what you believe, then so be it.

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
  • Manna: 23
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2013 on: Sun Mar 11, 2018 - 07:11:55 »
You think God is made of photons.  Interesting perspective.  Silly, if not downright stupid, but what the hey; if that is what you believe, then so be it.

I believe the testimony of the word of God, which never addresses what He is made of. I would never presume to know or even begin to understand what God is made of. Nor will I ever limit my mind to the very small enclosed box of fallen humanities observations concerning the finality of what anything is. Your the one who apparently thinks He knows what God is made of if the word of God says that God is light, and it does, not me. You have allowed your mind to be so very limited by both the box you are in by God's creation, and the one you have created yourself by thinking to highly of your own and humanities observations, you actually think that God has to be made of photons if He is light. This of course because you presume you already perfectly understand what the light you experience truly is, and that there are no other sources or forms of light apart from what you know, understand, comprehend, and apparently are the master and expert of and concerning. Is this not the exact problem and pride of the sinner in action? What is sin, but to think far more highly of ones self than any ought to in relation to God. Yes, this is where it all began, and where it will all end for all those who refuse their proper place before God.

Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
« Last Edit: Sun Mar 11, 2018 - 07:14:30 by Amo »

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2014 on: Sun Mar 11, 2018 - 07:50:32 »
I believe the testimony of the word of God, which never addresses what He is made of. I would never presume to know or even begin to understand what God is made of.
But you just did that with your interpretation of Genesis 1:3 when I asked you what was the light that God created on day one when the sun, moon and stars didn't appear until day four.  So don't try to give me the "I would never presume to know or even begin to understand what God is made of" bovine scat.

In point of fact, God is not literally physical light.  He created physical light, He is not physical light.  So again, in your literalist interpretation of the Genesis account of creation, what is the light that is referred to in Genesis 1:3 when there are neither sun, moon nor stars until day four?  If the light in Genesis 1:3 is a metaphor, what else in Genesis 1-3 is metaphor?
« Last Edit: Sun Mar 11, 2018 - 07:52:48 by 4WD »

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
  • Manna: 23
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2015 on: Sun Mar 11, 2018 - 08:42:04 »
But you just did that with your interpretation of Genesis 1:3 when I asked you what was the light that God created on day one when the sun, moon and stars didn't appear until day four.  So don't try to give me the "I would never presume to know or even begin to understand what God is made of" bovine scat.

In point of fact, God is not literally physical light.  He created physical light, He is not physical light.  So again, in your literalist interpretation of the Genesis account of creation, what is the light that is referred to in Genesis 1:3 when there are neither sun, moon nor stars until day four?  If the light in Genesis 1:3 is a metaphor, what else in Genesis 1-3 is metaphor?

Yes, I know, you think you know what God is. You also think you know what I think better than I do. So be it.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2016 on: Sun Mar 11, 2018 - 08:52:14 »
Yes, I know, you think you know what God is. You also think you know what I think better than I do. So be it.
Oh my.  Amo, I asked you a question concerning Genesis 1:3 that you should be able to answer if your view of the Genesis account of the creation is valid.  You answered with a metaphor.  But you have repeatedly denied any aspect of metaphorical language in the Genesis account claiming it is all literal. This actually, at least at this point, has nothing to do with what I think about the Genesis account of creation.  So which is it  --  literal or metaphorical?

If you can't or don't want to answer the question, then fine, don't answer.  But please refrain from your ad hominem attack on me because you can't or won't answer the question.

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
  • Manna: 23
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2017 on: Sun Mar 11, 2018 - 09:29:48 »
Oh my.  Amo, I asked you a question concerning Genesis 1:3 that you should be able to answer if your view of the Genesis account of the creation is valid.  You answered with a metaphor.  But you have repeatedly denied any aspect of metaphorical language in the Genesis account claiming it is all literal. This actually, at least at this point, has nothing to do with what I think about the Genesis account of creation.  So which is it  --  literal or metaphorical?

If you can't or don't want to answer the question, then fine, don't answer.  But please refrain from your ad hominem attack on me because you can't or won't answer the question.

I didn't answer you with what you consider a metaphor, that was someone else. I addressed the fact that the association in scripture between God and light is not just a metaphor. The scriptures state very clearly that God is light, and that there is a brightness often associated with His presence, which brightness is of such power as to destroy this world when He returns. These attributes are not presented as metaphors by scripture. I do not know what the source of light was before the sun and moon were created, scripture does not address this. It does however specifically and conclusively state that God is light and there is a brightness exceeding that of the sun in His presence, which would of course logically account for light at creation before the sun, moon, and stars were created.

Those who believe God's word is above and dictates the confines of real science are not in your box. Your box belongs to those who believe fallen humans observations concerning "science" are above and dictate the interpretation of God's word. This is the main difference between "Christian" creationists and evolutionists. The former interpret science in accordance with God's word, the latter interpret God's word in accordance with their "science".

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2018 on: Sun Mar 11, 2018 - 15:00:46 »
I addressed the fact that the association in scripture between God and light is not just a metaphor.
No, it is a metaphor.
Quote
The former interpret science in accordance with God's word, the latter interpret God's word in accordance with their "science".
Pure nescience  --  both of God's word and science.
« Last Edit: Sun Mar 11, 2018 - 15:05:07 by 4WD »

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
  • Manna: 23
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2019 on: Fri Mar 16, 2018 - 04:31:29 »
No, it is a metaphor.Pure nescience  --  both of God's word and science.

So be it. When He returns one of us will be found true, the other a liar.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2020 on: Fri Mar 16, 2018 - 05:44:48 »
So be it. When He returns one of us will be found true, the other a liar.
I don't consider you to be a liar; wrong, but not a liar. 

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
  • Manna: 23
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2021 on: Fri Mar 16, 2018 - 06:17:12 »
I don't consider you to be a liar; wrong, but not a liar.

That is nice, but we should not worry about what we think about each other, we are not the standard of truth that all will be judged by. God's word is truth, and all will decide concerning it, and be judged by it.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2022 on: Fri Mar 16, 2018 - 06:30:39 »
That is nice, but we should not worry about what we think about each other, we are not the standard of truth that all will be judged by. God's word is truth, and all will decide concerning it, and be judged by it.
If you think that we will be judged according to whether we perceive the Genesis account of creation as literal or not then you are to be pitied. What one believes about that is not a condition for salvation; and you should know that. But, seemingly, you do not.

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
  • Manna: 23
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2023 on: Fri Mar 16, 2018 - 06:48:42 »
If you think that we will be judged according to whether we perceive the Genesis account of creation as literal or not then you are to be pitied. What one believes about that is not a condition for salvation; and you should know that. But, seemingly, you do not.

We will stand or fall according to God's word. Our opinions on the matter will mean little to nothing at that time. When He appears, we will know just how insignificant our opinions were and are. Then, we will also learn just how much of God's word He expected us to accept as written, and how much simply didn't matter. Till then humanity will rave on in the freedom God has given us. You certainly are not my God or the final word of anything to me, as I know I am not to you. We will both know that God is the final word when He returns, and receive exactly what we deserve from Him. Praise His holy name.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2024 on: Fri Mar 16, 2018 - 07:39:18 »
You certainly are not my God or the final word of anything to me...
Never said I was.  And unlike you, I have never even implied it.

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
  • Manna: 23
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2025 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 06:58:47 »
Never said I was.  And unlike you, I have never even implied it.

Same deal. When God returns, we'll find out which one of us assumed prerogatives which are His alone in that which we have professed.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2026 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 07:10:51 »
Assumed prerogatives ? ? ?

By the way, you never did give us the literal interpretation of Genesis 1:3 given that the sun, moon and stars do not appear until the fourth day.
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 07:16:55 by 4WD »

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
  • Manna: 23
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2027 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 08:11:42 »
Assumed prerogatives ? ? ?

By the way, you never did give us the literal interpretation of Genesis 1:3 given that the sun, moon and stars do not appear until the fourth day.

Some things are beyond our understanding or comprehension due to either the limited information provided in scripture, or the fact that we are the created with very limited understanding, not the creator with perfect understanding. Light of course is not a problem, since God Himself is light and there is brightness all around Him. This is a problem for you of course, since you reject the testimony of such in scripture as merely metaphorical, though Paul himself and others of scripture give eye witness testimony of the same. While we are at discussing interpretations, I have been asking "Christian evolutionists" to describe the evolutionary process to us as described in the creation account of scripture. It is one thing to say certain scriptures are a metaphor or symbolic, and then explain those metaphors or symbols, it is another to do so simply to disregard what they plainly state. Please explain how the creation account really speaks of the evolutionary process, and how this all relates and ties into the gospel message of Jesus Christ and the Apostles. In particular, if death did not come about through sin, but was a natural part of our development and creation, how does that relate to the gospel of Jesus Christ? What is the gospel according to this understanding? Please don't just tell us the creation account and gospel message are not what scripture simply appears to state, tell us what they really are, if in fact you really have understanding and should be listened to. Thank you.

Offline 4WD

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6327
  • Manna: 166
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2028 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 08:52:35 »
Some things are beyond our understanding or comprehension due to either the limited information provided in scripture, or the fact that we are the created with very limited understanding, not the creator with perfect understanding.
Amo, I do not intend this in any derogatory way, but the fact that you do not understand something does not mean that others may not understand that something quite well.
Quote from: Amo
Light of course is not a problem, since God Himself is light and there is brightness all around Him.
Obviously this must be what you were referring to above.  Some of us know quite well what light is.  Apparently you do not.  If you did, you wouldn't make such silly statements.  As I noted some time ago, light is a physical entity.  Since God is not physical, any allusion to God as light must, by definition, by metaphoric.
Quote from: Amo
This is a problem for you of course, since you reject the testimony of such in scripture as merely metaphorical, though Paul himself and others of scripture give eye witness testimony of the same.
Just where does Paul himself and others of scripture give eye witness of that?
Quote from: Amo
While we are at discussing interpretations, I have been asking "Christian evolutionists" to describe the evolutionary process to us as described in the creation account of scripture.
If you would bother to actually read the Genesis account as it is written, you would note that there are only three things that are really spoken of as being created, and here I mean created ex nihilo as the Scripture intends.  The first is "heaven and earth", the second is life, and the third is the spirit of man.  Everything else is not created but comes from something else, that is, it is made, not created. The question then is in what manner did God "make" the rest of it.  You cannot answer that question because God did not specify how He did that.
Quote from: Amo
In particular, if death did not come about through sin, but was a natural part of our development and creation, how does that relate to the gospel of Jesus Christ? What is the gospel according to this understanding? Please don't just tell us the creation account and gospel message are not what scripture simply appears to state, tell us what they really are, if in fact you really have understanding and should be listened to. Thank you.
That is a totally separate issue.  I would be happy to discuss that with you, but I really do not see how that has any relation one way or the other to the "Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?"  I will simply note here that the idea of physical death being the result of Adam's sin comes not from Scripture but rather from the teachings of Augustine and others long after the written word of God was completed; and that quite frankly comes in conjunction with the false teaching of original sin.

Offline Amo

  • Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
  • Manna: 23
  • (T)ogether (E)veryone (A)chieves (M)ore
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2029 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 15:06:29 »
Quote
Amo, I do not intend this in any derogatory way, but the fact that you do not understand something does not mean that others may not understand that something quite well.

Claiming to know something quite well, does not equal knowing something quite well. You know nothing of what was described in the Genesis creation account. You were not there, and your speculations regarding what transpired are exactly that, speculations of an albeit extremely over confident individual regarding the same. It is pure presumption, to demand that what you know of light and that which you can observe today in relation to the same, the sun, moon, and stars, dictates what God could have or did do then. This is according to the same scoffers testimony and mentality that, “all things remain the same since creation”, which the apostles Peter prophesied concerning you and yours.
 

Quote
Obviously this must be what you were referring to above.  Some of us know quite well what light is.  Apparently you do not.  If you did, you wouldn't make such silly statements.  As I noted some time ago, light is a physical entity.  Since God is not physical, any allusion to God as light must, by definition, by metaphoric.

Yes, I know how very highly you and yours think of yourselves. This to the extent that those who disagree with you, and take some scriptures for just what they say, rather than what you say they say, are silly. Again, this makes nothing so, but within your own self important mind. Those who believe God’s word are not silly for dong so above what you demand God’s word is saying. You are on very shaky ground sir, declaring to know exactly what God is, and is not, even in contradiction to His word. Again, I think, you think, way to highly of yourself and your own observations which either address things which scripture has not revealed and or contradicts the same.
 

Quote
Quote
This is a problem for you of course, since you reject the testimony of such in scripture as merely metaphorical, though Paul himself and others of scripture give eye witness testimony of the same.

Just where does Paul himself and others of scripture give eye witness of that?

Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Mark 9:2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. 3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Lk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. 22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. 23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. 24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Acts 9:1 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. 3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

Acts 26:12 Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, 13 At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. 14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks 15 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest.

Eze 1:4 And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire………………………….
13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning. 14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning……………………………………..
26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. 27 And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. 28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake…………………………..

8 And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord God fell there upon me. 2 Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber……………………………….

10 Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne. 2 And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub, and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims, and scatter them over the city. And he went in in my sight. 3 Now the cherubims stood on the right side of the house, when the man went in; and the cloud filled the inner court. 4 Then the glory of the Lord went up from the cherub, and stood over the threshold of the house; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the Lord's glory………………………………..

Hab 3:1 A prayer of Habakkuk the prophet upon Shigionoth. 2 O Lord, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O Lord, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy. 3 God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise. 4 And his brightness was as the light; he had horns coming out of his hand: and there was the hiding of his power.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband……………………………..
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Need I go on?


Quote
Quote
While we are at discussing interpretations, I have been asking "Christian evolutionists" to describe the evolutionary process to us as described in the creation account of scripture.

If you would bother to actually read the Genesis account as it is written, you would note that there are only three things that are really spoken of as being created, and here I mean created ex nihilo as the Scripture intends.  The first is "heaven and earth", the second is life, and the third is the spirit of man.  Everything else is not created but comes from something else, that is, it is made, not created. The question then is in what manner did God "make" the rest of it.  You cannot answer that question because God did not specify how He did that.

Wrong. None of us of course understand the exactness of the how of creation. Nevertheless, the scriptures testify that it was done in six days which included evening and morning, specified what was created on which day, and established a day of rest on the seventh day commemorating the event. Later the word of God establishes that this creation was in six literal days again, and even establishes a commandment testifying to this that God’s people were to observe in commemoration of creation from then on. You deny all of this by your acceptance of the theory of evolution.

Quote
Quote
In particular, if death did not come about through sin, but was a natural part of our development and creation, how does that relate to the gospel of Jesus Christ? What is the gospel according to this understanding? Please don't just tell us the creation account and gospel message are not what scripture simply appears to state, tell us what they really are, if in fact you really have understanding and should be listened to. Thank you.

That is a totally separate issue.  I would be happy to discuss that with you, but I really do not see how that has any relation one way or the other to the "Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?"  I will simply note here that the idea of physical death being the result of Adam's sin comes not from Scripture but rather from the teachings of Augustine and others long after the written word of God was completed; and that quite frankly comes in conjunction with the false teaching of original sin.

It is not a separate issue. The bible is not a conglomeration of separated issues and ideas, but a testimony regarding the truth of the fall of humanity in sin against God, and His plan of salvation to solve this problem in Christ Jesus His Son. It is 100 % biblical that sin was and is the cause of death.

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you……………………………….
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 15:12:50 by Amo »

 

     
anything