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Online 4WD

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2030 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 15:39:19 »
You know nothing of what was described in the Genesis creation account. You were not there, and your speculations regarding what transpired are exactly that, speculations of an albeit extremely over confident individual regarding the same.
And of course you were there so no need for you to speculate.   rofl rofl
Quote from: Amo
It is pure presumption, to demand that what you know of light and that which you can observe today in relation to the same, the sun, moon, and stars, dictates what God could have or did do then.
The Genesis account is the record of God's creation of the physical universe. Obviously, when it speaks about light, it is speaking about physical light.  And I do know something about light in this physical universe.  I am not an expert on it, but I know enough about it to understand what it is now and was in the beginning.
Quote from: Amo
Yes, I know how very highly you and yours think of yourselves.
There is none here who thinks more highly of himself than you do Amo.  That is patently obvious.
Quote from: Amo
Just where does Paul himself and others of scripture give eye witness of that?
Mat 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Amo, when it says  "his face did shine AS the sun" and "his raiment was white AS the light", do you really not understand that those are metaphors not literal descriptions?  Sad.
Quote from: Amo
Need I go on?
Why bother?  Every one of those examples are expressed in figurative language.  Something that seems to escape you.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2030 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 15:39:19 »

Online 4WD

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2031 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 15:52:28 »
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you……………………………….
22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Do you not understand that verse 23 refutes your argument completely?  There are two contrasting options presented there; they are death and life, neither of which are physical.  Eternal life is not being contrasted with physical death. Surely that is apparent to you.  The wages of sin is not physical death; the wages of sin is eternal damnation.
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 15:54:51 by 4WD »

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2031 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 15:52:28 »

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2032 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 17:37:50 »
Do you not understand that verse 23 refutes your argument completely?  There are two contrasting options presented there; they are death and life, neither of which are physical.  Eternal life is not being contrasted with physical death. Surely that is apparent to you.  The wages of sin is not physical death; the wages of sin is eternal damnation.

The verse is right in front of you, you deny it says exactly what it says,"the wages of sin is death" and say the wages of sin is eternal damnation, and tell me the verse refutes what I am saying. That is a pretty serious level of denial brother.

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2033 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 17:52:40 »
And of course you were there so no need for you to speculate.   rofl rofl The Genesis account is the record of God's creation of the physical universe. Obviously, when it speaks about light, it is speaking about physical light.  And I do know something about light in this physical universe.  I am not an expert on it, but I know enough about it to understand what it is now and was in the beginning.There is none here who thinks more highly of himself than you do Amo.  That is patently obvious.Amo, when it says  "his face did shine AS the sun" and "his raiment was white AS the light", do you really not understand that those are metaphors not literal descriptions?  Sad. Why bother?  Every one of those examples are expressed in figurative language.  Something that seems to escape you.

No I was not there, I just believe what the scriptures plainly state, which you say is not so. Again, the denial is not on my part. I am not adding or subtracting from the word of God which plainly states the world was created in six days. It is there written right in front of your face. You simply declare it does not mean what it plainly says.

You do not know anything about the light and brightness surrounding God, or what exactly the scriptures mean when they state that God is light. Paul is relating his eye witness account of what happened to him, with no suggestion at all of using metaphors or telling a story with a lesson. Your continual witness about scripture is that none of it is true or to be taken literally. It never ends, this is not true or real, that is not true or real, this is not true or real, that is not true or real, on and on this is your continual witness about the scriptures in all we discuss. Yet you profess to be a bible believing Christian. As long I guess as everyone agrees with what you determine the words of scripture are really saying, rather than that which they actually plainly state. You call believing God's word for what it plainly says thinking to highly of one's self, I call constantly saying it means something else other than what it plainly says according to your own understanding thinking to highly of one's self. Again, God will judge between us. We can fully trust in His judgment.
« Last Edit: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 17:55:33 by Amo »

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2033 on: Sat Mar 17, 2018 - 17:52:40 »

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2034 on: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 06:28:34 »
You do not know anything about the light and brightness surrounding God, or what exactly the scriptures mean when they state that God is light.
What I know is that the Scriptures do not say that God is made of photons.
Quote from: Amo
Your continual witness about scripture is that none of it is true or to be taken literally.
I have never said any such thing.  If that is what you think then you are no better at comprehending what I have written than you are at what God has written.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2034 on: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 06:28:34 »



Offline RB

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2035 on: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 09:00:56 »
This past week Stephen Hawking died, no lost to this world for sure. He believed that NEBULOUS CLOUD OF GASES is our CREATOR, Not God~of course he could NOT begin to tell you were those gases came from. Well did our Lord Jesus say,
Quote
John 5:46,47~ “For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed Me: for he wrote of Me. But IF YE BELIEVE NOT HIS WRITINGS, HOW SHALL YE BELIEVE MY WORDS?”
And again,
Quote
Luke 16:29-31~ “Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, IF THEY HEAR NOT MOSES and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.”
The verses above clearly state that when a man DOUBTS THE WRITINGS OF MOSES (Genesis ) he will evidently also deny the Words of our Lord!

“IN THE BEGINNING, GOD,” NOT CHAOS, NOT SOME NEBULOUS CLOUD OF GASES, BUT “IN THE BEGINNING GOD, CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH!” ~ the first verse of the first chapter of the first book of the right Book declares ~ ” In the beginning, GOD created the Heavens and the Earth.” Now either you believe THAT, (i.e. what God’s Book says), or you’re going to take what some LIAR like Stephen Hawking or Pope Francis says!

In fact here are some quotes from Stephen Hawkins~“There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, [and] science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win because it works.”

"The laws may have been decreed by God, but God does not intervene to break the laws," Hawking stated. In an interview published in THE GUARDIAN, Hawking regarded the concept of heaven as a myth, believing that there is "no heaven or afterlife" and that such a notion was a "fairy story for people afraid of the dark".

“We are each free to believe what we want and it is my view that the simplest explanation is there is no God. No one created the universe and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization. There is probably no heaven, and no afterlife either. We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe, and for that, I am extremely grateful.”

“Before we understand science, it is natural to believe that God created the universe. But now science offers a more convincing explanation. What I meant by 'we would know the mind of God' is, we would know everything that God would know, if there were a God, which there isn't. I'm an atheist."~Stephen Hawking.

Now here’s what God says –“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” [Genesis 1:1]

THIS IS THE PREMISE AND PREFACE AND FOUNDATION OF THE ENTIRE BIBLE! In the BEGINNING, first of all, what? GOD, there’s God! And God did what? He created the Heaven and the Earth! So if you don’t believe in either one, then you’re off the beam. There’s a God, and He created the Heaven and the Earth! And this is the BASIC foundation: If you don’t believe THIS, you can’t believe ANYTHING!

BECAUSE WHEN YOU DOUBT ONE WORD IN THE BIBLE, YOU’LL SOON DOUBT THE WHOLE BIBLE! Why? Just like it happens in a court of law with the testimony of a witness, when one thing he’s said is proven to be a lie, what do they do with his ENTIRE TESTIMONY?–They throw the whole thing out, including the true things he said, because they can’t believe it and every word will be in doubt. If he lied about one thing, maybe he lied about another? And that’s the way it is with the Bible. If you can’t believe EVERY WORD OF IT, then you can’t believe every word of it, then you can’t believe ANY OF IT!

JESUS SAID, “HAD YE BELIEVED MOSES, YE WOULD HAVE BELIEVED ME… But IF YE BELIEVE NOT his writings, how shall ye believe My Words?” (Jn.5:46,47) Now, what’s the first of Moses’ writings, upon which all five books are based? GENESIS! “In the BEGINNING….” all about creation, the history of Israel and the beginning of God’s dealings with man.

EVOLUTION!–THAT WAS THE DEVIL’S GREATEST LIE and greatest manufacture and most clever piece of teaching, evolution! As ridiculous and idiotic as anything you could possibly study, because it has NO FOUNDATION IN FACT whatsoever; there’s no evidence for it, no discovery yet has been made to prove it! As one of its top exponents, Margaret Mead, the famous contemporary anthropologist wrote in her own introduction to her textbook on anthropology: “We as honest scientists must confess that science has yet to discover one single iota (tiny speck) of concrete evidence to prove the evolutionary theory!”

AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT GOD’S GREATEST CREDENTIALS ARE, THE GENUINE PROOF OF HIS AUTHORITY? HIS CREATION!! His glorious creation is a constant testimony of the existence of a divine Designer and Creator, as Romans 1:20 says, “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (His Creation), even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse!” And that’s why the world wants to reject creation and say it’s all just a meaningless, chaotic evolution: Because if the world and its inhabitants are God’s creation, then they’re His property–and if they’re His property, then He’s got the right to be Boss–and they don’t want God to be Boss!

Therefore “they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,” in their education. (Rom.1:28) “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. PROFESSING THEMSELVES TO BE WISE, THEY BECAME FOOLS!” (Rom.1:21,22) They got so smart they could do without God and the Bible, and so they became what?–FOOLS! Absolute fools, who “changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. … Who changed the truth of God into a LIE, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator!” (Rom.1:23,25)

So Why? WHY DID THE DEVIL AND MAN COOK UP THIS RIDICULOUS, IDIOTIC SCHEME OF EVOLUTION? To try to get rid of God! To try get rid of God and the knowledge of God, “as they did not like to retain God in their education.” And since they threw God out, and they threw Creation out, and they threw the Bible out, they had to cook up something new! As Prof. L.T. More of the University of Cincinnati confessed, “Our faith in the idea of evolution depends upon our reluctance to accept the antagonistic doctrine of special creation.” They didn’t want the truth anymore, so they had to figure out some big lie! And that’s why they cooked up Evolution!

And it is no surprise that the Anti Christ Pope Francis along with atheist’s like Mr. Hawking is spewing out the same old blasphemy in our day! The Pope says, “When we read about creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said. “He created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfillment.” In other words, according to this false Christ, Evolution and the Big Bang theory are compatible with the Bible and the Christian’s religious belief!

A blind leader of the blind who will lead his followers into the ditch! [Matt 15:1]


Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2036 on: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 09:40:50 »
This past week Stephen Hawking died, no lost to this world for sure. He believed that NEBULOUS CLOUD OF GASES is our CREATOR, Not God~of course he could NOT begin to tell you were those gases came from. Well did our Lord Jesus say,And again,The verses above clearly state that when a man DOUBTS THE WRITINGS OF MOSES (Genesis ) he will evidently also deny the Words of our Lord!

“IN THE BEGINNING, GOD,” NOT CHAOS, NOT SOME NEBULOUS CLOUD OF GASES, BUT “IN THE BEGINNING GOD, CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH!” ~ the first verse of the first chapter of the first book of the right Book declares ~ ” In the beginning, GOD created the Heavens and the Earth.” Now either you believe THAT, (i.e. what God’s Book says), or you’re going to take what some LIAR like Stephen Hawking or Pope Francis says!

In fact here are some quotes from Stephen Hawkins~“There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on authority, [and] science, which is based on observation and reason. Science will win because it works.”

"The laws may have been decreed by God, but God does not intervene to break the laws," Hawking stated. In an interview published in THE GUARDIAN, Hawking regarded the concept of heaven as a myth, believing that there is "no heaven or afterlife" and that such a notion was a "fairy story for people afraid of the dark".

“We are each free to believe what we want and it is my view that the simplest explanation is there is no God. No one created the universe and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization. There is probably no heaven, and no afterlife either. We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe, and for that, I am extremely grateful.”

“Before we understand science, it is natural to believe that God created the universe. But now science offers a more convincing explanation. What I meant by 'we would know the mind of God' is, we would know everything that God would know, if there were a God, which there isn't. I'm an atheist."~Stephen Hawking.

Now here’s what God says –“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” [Genesis 1:1]

THIS IS THE PREMISE AND PREFACE AND FOUNDATION OF THE ENTIRE BIBLE! In the BEGINNING, first of all, what? GOD, there’s God! And God did what? He created the Heaven and the Earth! So if you don’t believe in either one, then you’re off the beam. There’s a God, and He created the Heaven and the Earth! And this is the BASIC foundation: If you don’t believe THIS, you can’t believe ANYTHING!

BECAUSE WHEN YOU DOUBT ONE WORD IN THE BIBLE, YOU’LL SOON DOUBT THE WHOLE BIBLE! Why? Just like it happens in a court of law with the testimony of a witness, when one thing he’s said is proven to be a lie, what do they do with his ENTIRE TESTIMONY?–They throw the whole thing out, including the true things he said, because they can’t believe it and every word will be in doubt. If he lied about one thing, maybe he lied about another? And that’s the way it is with the Bible. If you can’t believe EVERY WORD OF IT, then you can’t believe every word of it, then you can’t believe ANY OF IT!

JESUS SAID, “HAD YE BELIEVED MOSES, YE WOULD HAVE BELIEVED ME… But IF YE BELIEVE NOT his writings, how shall ye believe My Words?” (Jn.5:46,47) Now, what’s the first of Moses’ writings, upon which all five books are based? GENESIS! “In the BEGINNING….” all about creation, the history of Israel and the beginning of God’s dealings with man.

EVOLUTION!–THAT WAS THE DEVIL’S GREATEST LIE and greatest manufacture and most clever piece of teaching, evolution! As ridiculous and idiotic as anything you could possibly study, because it has NO FOUNDATION IN FACT whatsoever; there’s no evidence for it, no discovery yet has been made to prove it! As one of its top exponents, Margaret Mead, the famous contemporary anthropologist wrote in her own introduction to her textbook on anthropology: “We as honest scientists must confess that science has yet to discover one single iota (tiny speck) of concrete evidence to prove the evolutionary theory!”

AND DO YOU KNOW WHAT GOD’S GREATEST CREDENTIALS ARE, THE GENUINE PROOF OF HIS AUTHORITY? HIS CREATION!! His glorious creation is a constant testimony of the existence of a divine Designer and Creator, as Romans 1:20 says, “For the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made (His Creation), even His eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse!” And that’s why the world wants to reject creation and say it’s all just a meaningless, chaotic evolution: Because if the world and its inhabitants are God’s creation, then they’re His property–and if they’re His property, then He’s got the right to be Boss–and they don’t want God to be Boss!

Therefore “they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,” in their education. (Rom.1:28) “Because that, when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. PROFESSING THEMSELVES TO BE WISE, THEY BECAME FOOLS!” (Rom.1:21,22) They got so smart they could do without God and the Bible, and so they became what?–FOOLS! Absolute fools, who “changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. … Who changed the truth of God into a LIE, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator!” (Rom.1:23,25)

So Why? WHY DID THE DEVIL AND MAN COOK UP THIS RIDICULOUS, IDIOTIC SCHEME OF EVOLUTION? To try to get rid of God! To try get rid of God and the knowledge of God, “as they did not like to retain God in their education.” And since they threw God out, and they threw Creation out, and they threw the Bible out, they had to cook up something new! As Prof. L.T. More of the University of Cincinnati confessed, “Our faith in the idea of evolution depends upon our reluctance to accept the antagonistic doctrine of special creation.” They didn’t want the truth anymore, so they had to figure out some big lie! And that’s why they cooked up Evolution!

And it is no surprise that the Anti Christ Pope Francis along with atheist’s like Mr. Hawking is spewing out the same old blasphemy in our day! The Pope says, “When we read about creation in Genesis, we run the risk of imagining God was a magician, with a magic wand able to do everything. But that is not so,” Francis said. “He created human beings and let them develop according to the internal laws that he gave to each one so they would reach their fulfillment.” In other words, according to this false Christ, Evolution and the Big Bang theory are compatible with the Bible and the Christian’s religious belief!

A blind leader of the blind who will lead his followers into the ditch! [Matt 15:1]

Good summary.

Offline Amo

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2037 on: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 10:16:20 »
What I know is that the Scriptures do not say that God is made of photons.I have never said any such thing.  If that is what you think then you are no better at comprehending what I have written than you are at what God has written.

I certainly have not said that God is made of photons either. The scriptures say that God is light, I believe them, this does not mean in any way shape or form that I think I know what God is made of. Nor do I think that I or anyone else can know what God is made of according to our extremely limited understanding of light and all other things. I accept that there is much that I do not understand and believe the testimony of scripture regarding God being, emanating, radiating, light and brightness. This because I do not trust that I already understand everything concerning light, or God, or God's creation. As I see it brother, you deny this and other scriptures as literal because you do think you already understand all these things well enough to determine that what God's word says cannot be literal, and therefore does mean what it plainly states. You interpret God's word according your own limited understanding, I presume because you think to highly of the same. If God's word says something that does not fit into your limited understanding, you change it or claim it isn't literal according to that understanding. In so doing you subject God's word to yourself, rather than subjecting yourself to God's word. I say this, so you can understand where I am coming from, my view, in case you haven't already understood this.

You insist that God cannot be light because you already perfectly understand what light is, and or exactly what the scriptures mean when they say God is light. Thus the plain statement that God is light cannot be literal to you. This you do with creation, the flood, I think perhaps the second coming, and other scriptures as well. The scriptures are subject to definition and interpretation according to your limited but apparently highly thought of understanding. Which understanding is heavily influenced by fallen humanities "scientific" observations and speculations derived in large part from many a denier of God Himself and His word. Thus my continued observation, that you have more faith in fallen humanities self confidence, than the words written and recorded by God's prophets, under God's guidance for His people. Please correct me if I am wrong and demonstrate your faith in the word of
God above and beyond the self confidence of human observations called science today.

This is not to mention the many scientists who do believe God's word and examine the evidence around them in light of their testimony rather than the supposed superior observations of fallen humanity a great many of whom reject and deny God altogether.
They, and you reject such as scientists, because yo consider your observations apart from God and His word as superior to those who would be guided in their science by God's word.
Again, where do you really place your faith?

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2038 on: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 13:35:46 »
I certainly have not said that God is made of photons either.
Yeah you did.  Because that is what light is.  And if you claim the Bible when referring to God as light is not a metaphor then you are indeed saying that God is photons.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2039 on: Sun Mar 18, 2018 - 21:42:22 »
Yeah you did.  Because that is what light is.  And if you claim the Bible when referring to God as light is not a metaphor then you are indeed saying that God is photons.

Wrong.

"Visible light is carried by photons". CARRIED by photons.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2040 on: Mon Mar 19, 2018 - 06:20:50 »
Wrong.

"Visible light is carried by photons". CARRIED by photons.
rofl rofl rofl

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2041 on: Tue Mar 20, 2018 - 00:43:44 »
Yeah you did.  Because that is what light is.  And if you claim the Bible when referring to God as light is not a metaphor then you are indeed saying that God is photons.

Yes I know, from the inside of the box you have created for yourself, it appears that is what I must be saying. I'm not in your box though. Your the one that thinks so highly of fallen humanities observations, that you obviously think we already know everything about light, exactly what and how it is. Until of course the one's your faith is really in, tell you otherwise. They have changed their views about light before, and probably will again. Nonetheless, your faith awaits their leading. You think I am ignorant for thinking God and His creation have much more depth than we can understand, I think you are ignorant for thinking it does not.

2 These 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2042 on: Tue Mar 20, 2018 - 03:53:38 »
Yeah you did.  Because that is what light is.  And if you claim the Bible when referring to God as light is not a metaphor then you are indeed saying that God is photons.

That would only be true if God's attributes are the same as the natural attributes we know in our universe.
We know however that God's attributes are beyond the natural limitations of our universe.
You have no way of knowing how light is distributed by God outside our natural realm, or where it originates from.
The Bible says that God is light. And if scripture means that literally, how would you ever prove He is not light?

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2043 on: Tue Mar 20, 2018 - 04:18:17 »
That would only be true if God's attributes are the same as the natural attributes we know in our universe.
We know however that God's attributes are beyond the natural limitations of our universe.
You have no way of knowing how light is distributed by God outside our natural realm, or where it originates from.
The Bible says that God is light. And if scripture means that literally, how would you ever prove He is not light?


Yes, God CREATED those attributes

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2044 on: Tue Mar 20, 2018 - 04:20:07 »

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2045 on: Wed Mar 21, 2018 - 17:40:16 »
Quote
"Visible light is carried by photons". CARRIED by photons.

Actually "light" is a subjective perception caused by particles/waves that produce a chemical reaction in our retinas.   Radiation is a sort of paradox, sometimes behaving like a stream of particles, and other times behaving as waves.

None of this is about the illumination of God, which is a spiritual phenomenon.   Trying to restrict His illumination to the physical universe, just to get scripture to say what you want it to say, is a mistake.




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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2046 on: Wed Mar 21, 2018 - 17:54:30 »
You guys are still arguing, when I already "dropped the mic" pages ago?

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2047 on: Wed Mar 21, 2018 - 22:33:00 »
You guys are still arguing, when I already "dropped the mic" pages ago?


Someone else picked it up, people were still listening.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2048 on: Wed Mar 21, 2018 - 22:53:55 »
theory of evolution that things just evolved is fiction

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2049 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 01:38:52 »
theory of evolution that things just evolved is fiction

Absolutely. ZERO evidence for it.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2050 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 01:40:08 »
Actually "light" is a subjective perception caused by particles/waves that produce a chemical reaction in our retinas.   Radiation is a sort of paradox, sometimes behaving like a stream of particles, and other times behaving as waves.

None of this is about the illumination of God, which is a spiritual phenomenon.   Trying to restrict His illumination to the physical universe, just to get scripture to say what you want it to say, is a mistake.

particles OR waves?

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2051 on: Thu Mar 22, 2018 - 06:41:36 »

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2052 on: Fri Mar 23, 2018 - 15:45:21 »

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2053 on: Fri Mar 23, 2018 - 18:58:18 »
how can it be both?
If that comes as a surprise to you, then you are more science challenged than I thought.  I can't be certain, but I would imagine in this day and age, that is taught in high school science classes.  If it isn't then the educational system is even worse than I imagined.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2054 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 07:22:51 »
Actually "light" is a subjective perception caused by particles/waves that produce a chemical reaction in our retinas.   Radiation is a sort of paradox, sometimes behaving like a stream of particles, and other times behaving as waves.

None of this is about the illumination of God, which is a spiritual phenomenon.   Trying to restrict His illumination to the physical universe, just to get scripture to say what you want it to say, is a mistake.

No one has said that, or is saying that. The scriptures very plainly speak of God's light and illumination in both spiritual and literal forms.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2055 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 07:30:43 »
No one has said that, or is saying that. The scriptures very plainly speak of God's light and illumination in both spiritual and literal forms.
What can you possibly mean by God's light in literal forms?  Do you mean that God emits photons physically?  For that matter what is the meaning of the "spiritual form of light"?  What is spiritual light?

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2056 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 08:19:28 »
If that comes as a surprise to you, then you are more science challenged than I thought.  I can't be certain, but I would imagine in this day and age, that is taught in high school science classes.  If it isn't then the educational system is even worse than I imagined.

https://www.livescience.com/7186-enduring-mystery-light.html

Quote
The Enduring Mystery of Light

............................................ .......................................

Albert Einstein deciphered the mystery in 1905 by assuming that particles of light smacked into the electrons, like colliding billiard balls. Only particles from short wavelength light can give a hard enough kick.

Despite this success, the particle theory never replaced the wave theory, since only waves can describe how light interferes with itself when it passes through two slits. We therefore have to live with light being both a particle and a wave — sometimes acting as hard as a rock, sometimes as soft as a ripple.

Physicists rectify light's split personality by thinking in terms of wave packets, which one can imagine as a group of light waves traveling together in a tight, particle-like bundle.

Making a spectacle

Instead of worrying about what light is, it might be better to concentrate on what light does. Light shakes, twists and shoves the charged particles (like electrons) that reside in all materials.

How light works
How light works
These light actions are wavelength-specific. Or to say it another way, each material responds only to a particular set of wavelengths.

Take an apple, for instance. Radio waves and X-rays go essentially straight through it, whereas visible light is stopped by various apple molecules that either absorb the light as heat or reflect it back out.

If the reflected light enters our eyes, it will stimulate color receptors (cones) that are specifically "tuned" to either long, medium or short wavelengths. The brain compares the different cone responses to determine that the apple reflects "red" light.

Here are some other examples of light's specific activities.................................. ............

All this shows that light wears many different hats in its manipulation of matter. It is perhaps fitting then that light's true identity — wave or particle — is unanswerable.

Fallen humanity makes observations, lists characteristics, actions, reactions, and what have you. Speculates theories concerning the same, and then presumes irrefutable knowledge concerning said theories. This is the pride of the fallen heart, not real substantial irrefutable knowledge and or understanding. This is not to deny real accomplishments and observable facts of "science" but only to place proper limits and perspective upon fallen humanities observations and conclusions regarding the same. We have been wrong many times over and over. Increased knowledge is usually the cause of correcting or modifying our views. This progression of thought and acquired knowledge is necessary to the fallen state of humanity. We have been separated from God and the rest of His creation by sin. Unlike the rest of creation, we cannot be in the literal presence of God and do not therefore see or deal with the concrete realities and absolutes of His being. Thus the friction between faith in God's word, and faith in the very limited observations of fallen humanity and the contradictory conclusions that limited information appears to create in relation to the testimony of God's word. This is not to mention of course, the faulty premise or foundation of much scientific speculation based upon there being no God or creator. Where we place our faith then, is the true source of the greater part of the friction between "science", and authentic Christianity. The latter of course placing greater faith in the testimony of God's word, than the testimony of "scientists".


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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2057 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 08:26:43 »
Fallen humanity makes observations, lists characteristics, actions, reactions, and what have you. Speculates theories concerning the same, and then presumes irrefutable knowledge concerning said theories. This is the pride of the fallen heart, not real substantial irrefutable knowledge and or understanding.
What a load of Bovine Scat.  You appear to be totally unenlightened [pun intended] about science at any level and then think you actually speak intelligently about it.  Too funny! !

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2058 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 08:29:37 »

Someone else picked it up, people were still listening.

From what I am reading, people are talking, but no one is listening.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2059 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 08:32:49 »
What can you possibly mean by God's light in literal forms?  Do you mean that God emits photons physically?  For that matter what is the meaning of the "spiritual form of light"?  What is spiritual light?

I would not dare to presume to explain God's physical being or that which He chooses to manifest Himself in, to you. I simply do not deny the attributes of that being plainly stated and described in the scriptures. As to spiritual light and darkness, let me reflect some of your own attitude toward others back upon you. If you don't know what spiritual light is in relation especially to spiritual darkness, then you are more scripturally challenged than I thought.  I can't be certain, but I would imagine that this is basic knowledge to any true student of scripture. If it isn't then basic teaching and understanding of scripture is even worse than I imagined.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2060 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 08:39:54 »
What a load of Bovine Scat.  You appear to be totally unenlightened [pun intended] about science at any level and then think you actually speak intelligently about it.  Too funny! !

Yes, I know, it is hard to be humble when you already know it all. All those silly people who would dare to challenge your superior knowledge and intellect built upon faulty fallen humanities observations. Certainly a laughable load of Bovine Scat. Only inferior beings would demonstrate a lack of trust in fallen humanities divine as it were, observations and conclusions.

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2061 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 08:47:13 »
I would not dare to presume to explain God's physical being

God's physical being????   rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2062 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 10:15:38 »
God's physical being????   rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Yes we know, you already know exactly what God is, therefore any suggestion at a physical manifestation is ridiculous to your superiorly enlightened mind. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. It is this world, and everything we perceive as real in and of it that is passing away, not the spiritual and eternal truths of scripture which posses a reality we do not yet even comprehend. Humanities confidence in itself does nothing but dwarf our scope and intellect. When the sky is rolled back like a scroll, and we see God and His holy angels as they are, then and only then will we be confronted with reality. We will come to understand that that which is spiritual is very real and filled with substance and literal being. We are what is passing away, we are the puff of smoke.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

1 Cor 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. 50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.


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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2063 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 10:20:53 »
.... that which is spiritual is very real and filled with substance......
So then the spiritual is filled with the physical.   rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

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Re: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?
« Reply #2064 on: Sat Mar 24, 2018 - 13:39:01 »
So then the spiritual is filled with the physical.   rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl

Surprise surprise, 4WD doesn't believe any scriptures which describe God or angels with physical attributes, or on occasion describe physical interaction with us, mean at all what they plainly state. At least his testimony is consistent, scripture simply is not true. It is only what he says it is, which is not often if ever described or explained. Therefore, for the most part, the scriptures are simply untrue. 4WD himself is the standard of true scriptural and scientific knowledge and all who disagree with his understanding are laughable simpletons. Tell us 4WD, what exactly are God and the angels, if they have no physical being or traits? If you know exactly what they are not, certainly this suggests you have at least an idea of what they actually are? Surely if you can laugh anyone who suggests a physical spiritual being to scorn, you can explain why such is laughable with real knowledge of what a spiritual being actually is, can't you?

 

     
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