Author Topic: Discussion Regarding Evolution, Fact or Fiction?  (Read 95912 times)

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KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #280 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 18:35:54 »

Observed fitness increasing in populations under natural selection



Observed FITNESS?

Really?

Natural selection SELECTS, it doesnt CREATE anything.

This is NOT "evolution".

KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #281 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 18:40:48 »


Huge number of predicted transitional forms either alive or in the fossil record


There is no such thing as a LIVE "transitional" form.

You DO know that the so-called "fossil record" exists NOWHERE except in the textbooks, right?

We see polystrata fossils. Petrified trees in the upright or even upside DOWN position going through SEVERAL rock layers that are supposedly thousands or millions of years apart in age. This proves the layers are NOT as old as people make them out to be.

There are, in fact ZERO transitional fossils.

If you find a fossil in the dirt or rock the ONLY thing it can tell you is that SOMETHING DIED. You dont know it had ANY kids, let alone how old it is as radiometric carbon dating methods DONT work.

And why you think a fossil in the ground can do something a living creature cant ( which is, produce something other than its' kind ) is beyond me.

KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #282 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 18:42:38 »

Genetics, showing the same nested hierarchy of species in a family tree of all living things


Can you rephrase this one, i dont really get what you mean.

Is this the "family tree" that shows, as darwin said that all living things are related?

If so, i refer you to my comments regarding fossils.

KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #283 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 18:45:04 »


Molecular data showing heme and collagen molecules of dinosaurs are more like those of birds than of modern reptiles


You can build many different things with metal. It is a good building material and usually a building material does not need to be made if metal will do the job.

This shows a common DESIGNER.

If you are saying that birds came FROM dinosaurs, you are not up with current research as the so-called dino-birds have been proven to be false.

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #283 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 18:45:04 »
Pinterest: GraceCentered.com

KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #284 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 18:46:28 »

Suboptimal structures like human hips, backs, and feet, that show common descent from 4-legged animals.

Common structures show a common DESIGNER. Again, just because apes and humans LOOK similar, that does not mean the ape is my granddad.

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #284 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 18:46:28 »



Offline 4WD

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #285 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 19:39:45 »
Common structures show a common DESIGNER. Again, just because apes and humans LOOK similar, that does not mean the ape is my granddad.

And no one who understands evolution would ever assert that to be the case.  I am not necessarily a proponent of evolution, but totally inaccurate posits like that do not help the discussion.

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #286 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 22:34:03 »
Quote
Observed FITNESS?

Really?

Yep.    Fitness is usually not hard to quantify.   Would you like some examples?

Quote
Natural selection SELECTS, it doesnt CREATE anything.

Mutation and natural selection do tend to increase fitness in a population.  That is what evolution is.

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This is NOT "evolution".

Evolution is a change in allele frequency in a population over time.   And that's what we see.   Random mutations are winnowed through natural selection, so that fitness increases.


Offline The Barbarian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #287 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 22:39:16 »
Quote
Common structures show a common DESIGNER.

God is not a designer.    He's the Creator.    Design is what imperfect creatures do.    And your assumption is incorrect about common structures.   For example, sharks, icthyosaurs, and dolphins have common structures, but when you look closely, they are derived from different things.    You're assuming analogous organs, while evolution is about homologous organs.   For example, dolphins are anatomically more like us than they are like sharks, even though they are analogous to sharks.   

Common descent is marked by homologies.

Quote
Again, just because apes and humans LOOK similar, that does not mean the ape is my granddad.

Again, you're confusing analogies with homologies.   The evidence that humans and other apes have a common ancestor is based on homologous structures like brain, jaws, and so on.    It is confirmed by genetic data showing that chimps and humans are more closely related than either is to other apes.    So we shared a common ancestor that had already diverged from other apes.


Offline The Barbarian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #288 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 22:46:38 »
Quote
You can build many different things with metal. It is a good building material and usually a building material does not need to be made if metal will do the job.

But because of details in the metal, it's possible to find where two metal objects have a common origin.  For example, archaeologists can determine by the mix of trace elements in copper artifacts that the ore from which they were made, came from a common source in Cyprus.   

This shows a common origin, not a common designer. 

And we can check these findings by seeing if related individuals have more similar molecules than more distantly related ones.    In the case of the dinosaur heme and collagen, the prediction was that it would be most like that of birds and crocodiles, and not as much like other modern reptiles.    The prediction was confirmed.   

There's no functional reason for this; it just shows common descent.

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If you are saying that birds came FROM dinosaurs

This pretty well nails it, since it shows that they are closely related.   

Quote
you are not up with current research as the so-called dino-birds have been proven to be false.

You've been misled about that.   Ornithologist Alan Feduccia has claimed that birds did not descend from dinosaurs, but that both birds and dinosaurs descended from a common thecodont ancestor.    The results from heme and collagen show this is very unlikely, and numerous new transitional forms demonstrating the origin of birds, has convinced most scientists that Feduccia is wrong.

Would you like to learn more about the issue?


Offline The Barbarian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #289 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 22:55:07 »
Quote
There is no such thing as a LIVE "transitional" form.

Of course there are.    For example, there are transitional forms between wood roaches and termites.   There are transitional forms between eutherian mammals and reptiles.   There are transitional forms between invertebrates and chordates, and so on.   Would you like to learn about some of them?

Quote
You DO know that the so-called "fossil record" exists NOWHERE except in the textbooks, right?

If you think so, you've never taken a good look at a limestone cliff.    There are many, many examples.  Want to learn about those?

Quote
We see polystrata fossils. Petrified trees in the upright or even upside DOWN position going through SEVERAL rock layers that are supposedly thousands or millions of years apart in age.

Nope.   The layers are only a few decades apart, in most cases.    There are some polystrate trees being formed a few miles from my house, where a woods flooded by a dam years ago, is slowly burying them in sediment.   

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There are, in fact ZERO transitional fossils.

Let's test your belief.   Name me any two major groups, said to be evolutionarily connected and I'll see if I can find a transitional.    Which two would you like?

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If you find a fossil in the dirt or rock the ONLY thing it can tell you is that SOMETHING DIED.

No, that's wrong, too.    We can tell things like what kind of food it ate, if it was a freshwater or saltwater organism, what kind of metabolism it had, and many other things.    Would you like to talk about how we know these things?

Quote
let alone how old it is as radiometric carbon dating methods DONT work.

Carbon-14 works fine, but it has to short a half-life to be of much use in paleontology.  Would you like to learn how older rock are dated?



 

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #290 on: Sat Aug 05, 2017 - 22:59:16 »
Barbarian observes: 
  Just showed you one.
Such a formation could not have happened in a single flood.   It requires millions of years of slow erosion.
 
Quote
Of course this could of happened in a single flood.

No, it can't and you'll never see it happen like that.   Meanders require slow, gradual erosion.   A strong sudden flood would just have gouged out surface marks.    We have such examples like the scablands.     Meanders are never suddenly produced.    Would you like to learn why?


 

Offline Amo

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #291 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 00:54:12 »
Barbarian observes: 
  Just showed you one.
Such a formation could not have happened in a single flood.   It requires millions of years of slow erosion.
 
No, it can't and you'll never see it happen like that.   Meanders require slow, gradual erosion.   A strong sudden flood would just have gouged out surface marks.    We have such examples like the scablands.     Meanders are never suddenly produced.    Would you like to learn why?

Your right, no one will ever see it happen like that. There will never be a global flood again, and if there was, no one would live to tell anyone anything about it. Nor will anyone ever see, or has anyone ever seen it happen over the course of millions of years. Not possible. Your presumptions are as much conjecture as all he rest, and based upon the faulty observations of fallen humanity in contradiction to the word of God. Though you deny that word even when right in front of your face. Do you really believe, even if the world was countless millions of yeas old, that one spot on it would remain so unchanged for millions of years as to perfectly preserve the slow erosion of what we see in your photo over that course of time? Even that notion, is just plain silly.

KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #292 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 03:18:28 »
Barbarian observes: 
  Just showed you one.
Such a formation could not have happened in a single flood.   It requires millions of years of slow erosion.
 
No, it can't and you'll never see it happen like that.   Meanders require slow, gradual erosion.   A strong sudden flood would just have gouged out surface marks.    We have such examples like the scablands.     Meanders are never suddenly produced.    Would you like to learn why?

Yes, it can.

KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #293 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 03:20:31 »
God is not a designer.    He's the Creator.    Design is what imperfect creatures do.    And your assumption is incorrect about common structures.   For example, sharks, icthyosaurs, and dolphins have common structures, but when you look closely, they are derived from different things.    You're assuming analogous organs, while evolution is about homologous organs.   For example, dolphins are anatomically more like us than they are like sharks, even though they are analogous to sharks.   

Common descent is marked by homologies.

Again, you're confusing analogies with homologies.   The evidence that humans and other apes have a common ancestor is based on homologous structures like brain, jaws, and so on.    It is confirmed by genetic data showing that chimps and humans are more closely related than either is to other apes.    So we shared a common ancestor that had already diverged from other apes.

No, He is a creator. At least you admit there IS a God. God designed us AND created us.

"The evidence that humans and other apes have a common ancestor is based on homologous structures like brain, jaws, and so on"

Wrong. Again, it shows a common designer or creator.

KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #294 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 03:23:03 »
And no one who understands evolution would ever assert that to be the case.  I am not necessarily a proponent of evolution, but totally inaccurate posits like that do not help the discussion.

Oh, so humans and apes are NOT related?

Thats EXACTLY what evolutionists say.

I, too dislike inaccurate posts.

For someone who does not believe in evolution, you sure defend the religion a lot.

KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #295 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 03:27:11 »
Yep.    Fitness is usually not hard to quantify.   Would you like some examples?

Mutation and natural selection do tend to increase fitness in a population.  That is what evolution is.

No, its natural selection.

Evolution is a change in allele frequency in a population over time.   And that's what we see.   Random mutations are winnowed through natural selection, so that fitness increases.

Thats ONE very loose definition of evolution.

No-one disputes changes within a kind. big dogs, little dogs, etc.

But to extrapolate that into the belief that all living things ( humans, apes, cats, mice, plants, grass, etc. ) are all related to each other and that life began 4.6 billion years ago from a rock is a fairytale.

KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #296 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 03:33:11 »
But because of details in the metal, it's possible to find where two metal objects have a common origin.  For example, archaeologists can determine by the mix of trace elements in copper artifacts that the ore from which they were made, came from a common source in Cyprus.   

This shows a common origin, not a common designer.

Good point, my friend. But, i only used this as an analogy. Do you at least get what i am trying to say?

And we can check these findings by seeing if related individuals have more similar molecules than more distantly related ones.    In the case of the dinosaur heme and collagen, the prediction was that it would be most like that of birds and crocodiles, and not as much like other modern reptiles.    The prediction was confirmed.   

So in other words ( so i understand you, i am not an academic ) because i have nails and some mammals have nails, that proves we are related somewhere along the line, is that what you are trying to say?


There's no functional reason for this; it just shows common descent.

This pretty well nails it, since it shows that they are closely related.   

Fine.

You've been misled about that.   Ornithologist Alan Feduccia has claimed that birds did not descend from dinosaurs, but that both birds and dinosaurs descended from a common thecodont ancestor.    The results from heme and collagen show this is very unlikely, and numerous new transitional forms demonstrating the origin of birds, has convinced most scientists that Feduccia is wrong.

Wow, so a person CLAIMS that birds did NOT descend from dinosaurs? I have seen many professors say the opposite.

Show me a "transitional form", please. NOT a whole list, just ONE please and lets discuss it.

Would you like to learn more about the issue?

So far i havent seen you present any evidence and you havent disproven anything i have said.

Plus, you said you are NOT an evolutionist, so why would i come to YOU?

Also, since you are NOT an evolutionist, you just want to argue.

I would prefer to hear form an EVOLUTIONIST.

AVZ

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #297 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 06:04:36 »

Actually, it's been known for a very long time that a huge release of water can scour out canyons in relatively short time.  Decades ago, the scablands were determined to be the result of a sudden flood when Lake Missoula suddenly broke out of a glacial trap.   It was a model for the Martian canyons that seem to have been similarly formed.   What can't happen suddenly is this:



This sort of formation can only happen over millions of years, in a rejuvenated river where the bed becomes trapped and cuts deeper and deeper into stone.

There is in fact much scientific evidence that the various layers of sediment are deposited in a very short time, some instantaneous, which explains why fossils are preserved in those layers.
The formation in your picture could have been shaped in a very short time.

Offline 4WD

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #298 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 07:13:44 »
There is in fact much scientific evidence that the various layers of sediment are deposited in a very short time, some instantaneous, which explains why fossils are preserved in those layers.
The formation in your picture could have been shaped in a very short time.


In the Grand Canyon several of the layer deposits are the result of desert conditions not sea conditions.  There is no way that could have happened in a short period of time.  And your argument completely avoids the data provided by radiometric dating methods.  An excellent discussion of the subject may be found here

http://www.reasons.org/articles/radiometric-dating---a-christian-perspective

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #299 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 08:09:10 »
Quote
There is in fact much scientific evidence that the various layers of sediment are deposited in a very short time, some instantaneous, which explains why fossils are preserved in those layers.

In the Snake River canyon, shown above, there are deserts and forests at different levels in the rock along with animal burrows, insect hives, etc.   Seems unlikely that those would have had time to appear in flood deposits being laid down and then be covered during a year-long flood.    How do you suppose that happened?


Quote
The formation in your picture could have been shaped in a very short time.

Nope.   Never does.   Sudden erosion never meanders.   Those are almost kilometer-high banks.   They were solid rock when they were eroded.   Soft sediment always slumps and collapses when it erodes more than a few meters.   Would you like me to show you?



Offline The Barbarian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #300 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 08:11:54 »
[quote[So far i havent seen you present any evidence[/quote]

Just showed you some, which refutes your argument.
 
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Plus, you said you are NOT an evolutionist, so why would i come to YOU?

I'm a biologist.   But I accept the fact of evolution. 

Quote
I would prefer to hear form an EVOLUTIONIST.

I'm just showing you the evidence for evolution.


Offline The Barbarian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #301 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 08:15:53 »
Barbarian observes:
Evolution is a change in allele frequency in a population over time.   And that's what we see.   Random mutations are winnowed through natural selection, so that fitness increases.


Quote
Thats ONE very loose definition of evolution.

No,that's the precise one used by scientists.

Quote
No-one disputes changes within a kind. big dogs, little dogs, etc.

Actually, many professional creationists now admit the fact that new species, genera, and families evolve.   They suppose there's some kind of "wall" at higher taxa, but they can't show that it exists.



But to extrapolate that into the belief that all living things ( humans, apes, cats, mice, plants, grass, etc. ) are all related to each other and that life began 4.6 billion years ago from a rock is a fairytale.


Offline Amo

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #302 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 10:49:18 »
Quote
Nope.   Never does.   Sudden erosion never meanders.   Those are almost kilometer-high banks.   They were solid rock when they were eroded.   Soft sediment always slumps and collapses when it erodes more than a few meters.   Would you like me to show you?

Again and again, all your presumptions are based upon the false concept that all things are the same as they once were, and continue the same as they always have. This you believe and propagate against the direct and plain testimony of the word of God, even addressing exactly what you are doing. You have placed your own understanding above the word if God, and are hopelessly deceived because of this.

2 Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

You are one of the scoffers Peter was referring to of the last days. You preach that all things have remained as they were in your false model of God's creation over millions of years, so that you can observe and figure out just how it happened in contradiction to the plain testimony of scripture. You deny the flood, because your precious evolution cannot be true if it really happened.

Tell us, since the flood didn't happen, do you believe the rest of what Peter said was going happen in the future is really going to happen? Or do you deny this testimony in the word of God also? Just how much of God's word needs to be trashed according to your own understanding?
« Last Edit: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 10:51:28 by Amo »

Offline th1b.taylor

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #303 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 15:27:23 »
There is in fact much scientific evidence that the various layers of sediment are deposited in a very short time, some instantaneous, which explains why fossils are preserved in those layers.
The formation in your picture could have been shaped in a very short time.
Indeed, and with our Omnipotent God it could all be done in less than 24 hours.

Offline th1b.taylor

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #304 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 15:39:13 »
In the Grand Canyon several of the layer deposits are the result of desert conditions not sea conditions.  There is no way that could have happened in a short period of time.  And your argument completely avoids the data provided by radiometric dating methods.  An excellent discussion of the subject may be found here

http://www.reasons.org/articles/radiometric-dating---a-christian-perspective

You are not serving the Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob for whom nothing is impossible including the Great Delusion e promised to send, the very thing a part of is being discussed here?  And Jesus taught us, "Except you believe!"

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #305 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 16:01:20 »
You're off by a little over 1600 years.   The realization that Genesis was not a literal history came about long before Darwin or any sort of evolutionary theory.   


All that traditional Christian believe refutes is the testimony of YE creationists, and their new interpretation of Genesis.

While denying the traditional Christian understanding of Genesis does not put you outside of His people, referring to those who don't agree with you by putting quote marks around the word "Christian" might be a bad idea. 

Have a little humility.     Neither YE creationism, nor acceptance of evolution are requirements for being a Christian.
And Jesus teaches us that except you believe as a small child you cannot enter into the kingdom!  When I taught the Primaries Class I  never, even once, had one of them ask me how the Big Bang "theory" and/or the "Theory" of Evolution fit into the Scriptures.

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #306 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 17:37:18 »

You are not serving the Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob for whom nothing is impossible including the Great Delusion e promised to send, the very thing a part of is being discussed here?  And Jesus taught us, "Except you believe!"


It is strange indeed to find such arrogance in such ignorance.  Or perhaps not.  Do you really think that God would so completely distort the science He Himself created?  I think not.  The question here to me is clearly whether God actually needs the distortion and delusion that you seem to perceive in order that His faithful would remain so.  Again, I think not.  But perhaps it is not God who requires such distortion and delusion in order that you can believe.

Offline 4WD

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #307 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 17:39:51 »
And Jesus teaches us that except you believe as a small child you cannot enter into the kingdom!  When I taught the Primaries Class I  never, even once, had one of them ask me how the Big Bang "theory" and/or the "Theory" of Evolution fit into the Scriptures.
And it is probably a good thing they didn't since you don't really have a clue about what either theory is;  or for that matter even what "theory" means with regard to either.

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #308 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 20:47:32 »
Quote
Again and again, all your presumptions are based upon the false concept that all things are the same as they once were, and continue the same as they always have.

God made the rules.  He doesn't change.    If you have to assume things not in scripture to make your point, isn't that something for you to think about?

If you would accept God's word as it is, without adding anything to it, all of your difficulties would  be gone.   Worth a try?

 Instead of scoffing at God's creation, just accept it as it is. 

Quote
Tell us, since the flood didn't happen

What makes you think there wasn't a flood?   Turns out, there was a huge flood in the Middle East about the right time.   It covered a huge area, drowning settlements, pastures and covering mountains.    It's now known as the Black Sea.    Was that Noah's Flood, or is the story entirely a parable?    It doesn't matter.    What matters is what God was telling you in that story.    Listen to the point.    It doesn't matter at all whether or not there was a Good Samaritan in the literal sense.   What matters is the lesson.    Pay attention to that.

Let God be God and do it His way, not yours.



 

Offline The Barbarian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #309 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 20:49:47 »
Quote
And Jesus teaches us that except you believe as a small child you cannot enter into the kingdom!  When I taught the Primaries Class I  never, even once, had one of them ask me how the Big Bang "theory" and/or the "Theory" of Evolution fit into the Scriptures.

You should have learned from that.    The Bible isn't about science, and science can't tell you what God tells you.    Listen to Him, accept it His way, and stop trying to fit scripture into your own wishes.


AVZ

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #310 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 21:14:04 »
In the Grand Canyon several of the layer deposits are the result of desert conditions not sea conditions.  There is no way that could have happened in a short period of time.  And your argument completely avoids the data provided by radiometric dating methods.  An excellent discussion of the subject may be found here

http://www.reasons.org/articles/radiometric-dating---a-christian-perspective


As far as the Grand Canyon is concerned, there is no proof that desert conditions formed the layers. In fact the same layers are found globally over different continents, also in countries without desert conditions.
Burial of fossils always happens in a short time, it cannot be done over a long time.
There is no evidence of corrosion between layers, which is a real problem for science.
Radiometric dating is proven unreliable.

AVZ

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #311 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 21:19:09 »
In the Snake River canyon, shown above, there are deserts and forests at different levels in the rock along with animal burrows, insect hives, etc.   Seems unlikely that those would have had time to appear in flood deposits being laid down and then be covered during a year-long flood.    How do you suppose that happened?


Nope.   Never does.   Sudden erosion never meanders.   Those are almost kilometer-high banks.   They were solid rock when they were eroded.   Soft sediment always slumps and collapses when it erodes more than a few meters.   Would you like me to show you?

How deep do you say Snake River Canyon is, kilometer high banks?

AVZ

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #312 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 21:28:15 »
2 Peter 3:3

Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation."
But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water.
By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed.
By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.


1) Peter warns us that men will come and claim that everything goes on the way it has always been. That is not true.
2) These men will do so deliberately, ignoring Gods Word. The earth being formed by water.
3) God will destroy the world in a day, impossible according to the scientists
4) God can do in 1 day what man claims should take a 1000 years

KiwiChristian

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #313 on: Sun Aug 06, 2017 - 21:30:35 »
In the Grand Canyon several of the layer deposits are the result of desert conditions not sea conditions.  There is no way that could have happened in a short period of time.  And your argument completely avoids the data provided by radiometric dating methods.  An excellent discussion of the subject may be found here

http://www.reasons.org/articles/radiometric-dating---a-christian-perspective


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXMcR1D-vSE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Maa_V3_GQA

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Re: The empty-headed myth of Evolution
« Reply #314 on: Mon Aug 07, 2017 - 06:29:25 »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXMcR1D-vSE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Maa_V3_GQA

Ken Hovind ??   rofl   rofl   rofl

Have you read anything about him?  Even the AnswersinGenesis folks think he is a sham.  He compared the Grand Canyon to a farmers pond in Tennessee.   He's a joke.  His geology credentials should give it away.  His credentials in any science should give it away.

 

     
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