Author Topic: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration  (Read 1035 times)

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Offline Jaime

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« Last Edit: Tue Sep 06, 2022 - 05:28:00 by Jaime »

Offline Rella

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #1 on: Tue Sep 06, 2022 - 07:12:39 »
There was a small story about this on TV last night...

It is far more then just human trafficking with the way the cartels are using children and raping the young girls and getting them on drugs and working brothels while the boys must sell the drugs all to make money to pay the ransom owed to the cartels for bringing them to the US

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #2 on: Tue Sep 06, 2022 - 09:03:43 »
The bad news is they never get out of slavery. It is a permanent hell until they die. This human trafficking or modern-day slavery is by far the worst problem. Who knew a Democrat President would be responsible for such slavery atrocities in this modern age.

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #3 on: Thu Sep 08, 2022 - 02:16:47 »
Quote
The bad news is they never get out of slavery. It is a permanent hell until they die. This human trafficking or modern-day slavery is by far the worst problem. Who knew a Democrat President would be responsible for such slavery atrocities in this modern age.

Democrats are amoral so that is not a surprise.

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #3 on: Thu Sep 08, 2022 - 02:16:47 »

Offline Amo

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #4 on: Sat Sep 10, 2022 - 11:40:06 »
“Whosoever becomes prince of a city or State, more especially if his position be so insecure that he cannot resort to constitutional government either in the form of a republic or a monarchy, will find that the best way to preserve his princedom is to renew the whole institutions of that State; that is to say, to create new magistracies with new names, confer new powers, and employ new men, and like David when he became king, exalt the humble and depress the great, “filling the hungry with good things, and sending the rich empty away.” Moreover, he must pull down existing towns and rebuild them, removing their inhabitants from one place to another; and, in short, leave nothing in the country as he found it; so that there shall be neither rank, nor condition, nor honor, nor wealth which its possessor can refer to any but to him. And he must take example from Philip of Macedon, the father of Alexander, who by means such as these, from being a petty prince became monarch of all Greece; and of whom it was written that he shifted men from province to province as a shepherd moves his flocks from one pasture to another. These indeed are most cruel expedients, contrary not merely to every Christian, but to every civilized rule of conduct, and such as every man should shun, choosing rather to lead a private life than to be a king on terms so hurtful to mankind. But he who will not keep to the fair path of virtue, must to maintain himself enter this path of evil.”— Machiavelli

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #5 on: Fri Sep 16, 2022 - 11:19:50 »
Illegal immigration is barely a problem.  Here in Arizona many of those who illegally arrive from Mexico and Central America are hard-working laborers that our economy needs.

The problem is the trafficking of drugs and people back and forth across the border.

Jarrod

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #6 on: Fri Sep 23, 2022 - 02:02:27 »
Quote
Illegal immigration is barely a problem.  Here in Arizona many of those who illegally arrive from Mexico and Central America are hard-working laborers that our economy needs.

The problem is the trafficking of drugs and people back and forth across the border.

Jarrod

If you are having to send bus loads of them to other places because they are overwhelming your resources, they are a problem.

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #7 on: Fri Sep 23, 2022 - 05:14:04 »
There is definitely a big problem in Texas.

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #8 on: Fri Sep 23, 2022 - 13:45:00 »
If you are having to send bus loads of them to other places because they are overwhelming your resources, they are a problem.
That problem only happens when they are detained.

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #9 on: Fri Sep 23, 2022 - 18:10:35 »
Otherwise the uncaught illegal immigrants become problems for a widespread area on the border as they move north. Especially with the overwhelming numbers they have had for 2 years. Way more than normal.
« Last Edit: Fri Sep 23, 2022 - 18:18:43 by Jaime »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #10 on: Fri Sep 23, 2022 - 23:25:36 »
Otherwise the uncaught illegal immigrants become problems for a widespread area on the border as they move north. Especially with the overwhelming numbers they have had for 2 years. Way more than normal.
Uh, not so much.  This is quite literally where I live.  The people who are immigrating in search of work mostly find work and become productive.  I could provide a ton of examples, but maybe I shouldn't publish that on the Internet, eh?

The border problems are drug smuggling and human trafficking, not immigration.

Jarrod

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #11 on: Sat Sep 24, 2022 - 01:45:36 »
Quote
That problem only happens when they are detained.

No.  It is a problem wherever they enter illegally, and where ever they go in groups after that.   I've thought all along that there were only two goals to Liberals desire to flood the country with illegals.  To overwhelm the system with financial handouts and enable them to vote en mass even if they are not citizens.  It stuck me yesterday that those are only two of their goals.  The third goal is an attempt to change the basic culture of the country in as short a time as possible.  And the only way to do that is a mass influx of people from different countries.  They can't woo the deplorables into accepting their tainted world view and there are, irritatingly enough, still too many of them around.  If they fill the country with enough illegal freeloaders to accept their socialism wholesale, the protests of the deplorables won't matter.  They will either stop complaining, because they will be a minority too small to hear, or they will get lost in the confusion.  And both groups will disappear completely when the Left decides they can remove them in more efficient ways.  That's the way socialism always works.  The useful idiots are the first to go, as soon as they have nullified the people who objected openly to the socialism in the first place.

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #12 on: Sat Sep 24, 2022 - 01:51:08 »
Quote
Uh, not so much.  This is quite literally where I live.  The people who are immigrating in search of work mostly find work and become productive.  I could provide a ton of examples, but maybe I shouldn't publish that on the Internet, eh?

The border problems are drug smuggling and human trafficking, not immigration.

Jarrod

What is happening at the border is not immigration.  Immigration means entering the country legally.  These people are not entering the country legally and they are not immigrants.  They are illegal aliens.  As such, whether they find jobs or not, every single one of them should be deported back to where they came from.  I was born and raised in Arizona and the state has become unrecognizable to me, and partially, because of the attitude of people like you who don't care that the lower third of the state has turned into a No Man's land of drug cartels and the state now seems to shrug off the influx of 1000's of illegals.  Every state that adopts such an attitude does so at their own peril.

Offline RB

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #13 on: Sat Sep 24, 2022 - 04:33:46 »
No.  It is a problem wherever they enter illegally, and where ever they go in groups after that.   I've thought all along that there were only two goals to Liberals desire to flood the country with illegals.  To overwhelm the system with financial handouts and enable them to vote en mass even if they are not citizens.  It stuck me yesterday that those are only two of their goals.  The third goal is an attempt to change the basic culture of the country in as short a time as possible.  And the only way to do that is a mass influx of people from different countries.  They can't woo the deplorables into accepting their tainted world view and there are, irritatingly enough, still too many of them around.  If they fill the country with enough illegal freeloaders to accept their socialism wholesale, the protests of the deplorables won't matter.  They will either stop complaining, because they will be a minority too small to hear, or they will get lost in the confusion.  And both groups will disappear completely when the Left decides they can remove them in more efficient ways.  That's the way socialism always works.  The useful idiots are the first to go, as soon as they have nullified the people who objected openly to the socialism in the first place.
AMEN! Do not folks remember these famous words of that liberal Chuck Schumer? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMMrNeyIMWs


Offline Jaime

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #14 on: Sat Sep 24, 2022 - 05:53:08 »
Jarrod, i don’t know if Arizona is protected by the harsh terrain and such. But the Texas border is literally overrun and causing problems several hundred miles inland and that is where I live. Midland, Tx is 250 to 300 miles from the border depending on the curves of the Rio Grande. The towns on the border are totally swamped with illegals and their infrastructure is stretched beyond breaking, especially in the towns in the lower Rio Grande valley like McAllen. El Paso where the bimbo Kamala “visited” is not near as busy of a crossing place. There are small towns of 10,000 to 30,000 that literally have an estimated illegal population equal to their normal population at a given time. It’s a human disaster and tragedy even if the sex slave and Fentanyl traffic of the cartels is not considered. The good news is that Texas Hispanics are quite upset about the fiasco on our border so the Dems might not be be making Texas as purple as they think. They KNOW how stupid and destructive this is.
« Last Edit: Sat Sep 24, 2022 - 11:50:39 by Jaime »

Offline Rella

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #15 on: Sat Sep 24, 2022 - 07:10:20 »
No.  It is a problem wherever they enter illegally, and where ever they go in groups after that.   I've thought all along that there were only two goals to Liberals desire to flood the country with illegals.  To overwhelm the system with financial handouts and enable them to vote en mass even if they are not citizens.  It stuck me yesterday that those are only two of their goals.  The third goal is an attempt to change the basic culture of the country in as short a time as possible.  And the only way to do that is a mass influx of people from different countries.  They can't woo the deplorables into accepting their tainted world view and there are, irritatingly enough, still too many of them around.  If they fill the country with enough illegal freeloaders to accept their socialism wholesale, the protests of the deplorables won't matter.  They will either stop complaining, because they will be a minority too small to hear, or they will get lost in the confusion.  And both groups will disappear completely when the Left decides they can remove them in more efficient ways.  That's the way socialism always works.  The useful idiots are the first to go, as soon as they have nullified the people who objected openly to the socialism in the first place.

As one of the "irritating"  deplorables who is still around you make a valid point. But you neeed to include "their" idea of white supremacist in there also... as not all WS are deplorable in the true MAGA sense.... actuallly mostly the opposite, though not socialist minded... if that makes any sense

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #16 on: Mon Sep 26, 2022 - 03:07:53 »
What is happening at the border is not immigration.  Immigration means entering the country legally.
No it doesn't.  Grab a dictionary and look:

Code: [Select]
verb (used without object), im·mi·grat·ed, im·mi·grat·ing.
   to come to a country of which one is not a native, usually for permanent residence.
   to pass or come into a new habitat or place, as an organism.

You don't get to just re-define words to fit your agenda.

These people are not entering the country legally and they are not immigrants.  They are illegal aliens.  As such, whether they find jobs or not, every single one of them should be deported back to where they came from.
They certainly are immigrants, per the dictionary definition.  Virtually everyone in America is ultimately an immigrant.  This country was founded as a refuge for those wanting to escape religious persecution in their home countries.  If you want to deport everyone that came to America against the wishes of the natives, you're going to have to deport basically everyone, probably including yourself.

Something I find ironic is when Americans object to illegal immigrants because they are "taking our jobs."  This is actually backwards from what is happening.  People who immigrate legally are the ones taking jobs.  They come on work visas to become doctors and teachers and such.  The ones who come illegally are doing unskilled labor jobs that nobody else here will do.

  I was born and raised in Arizona and the state has become unrecognizable to me, and partially, because of the attitude of people like you who don't care that the lower third of the state has turned into a No Man's land of drug cartels and the state now seems to shrug off the influx of 1000's of illegals.  Every state that adopts such an attitude does so at their own peril.
My post that you're responding to literally says, "the border problems are drug smuggling and human trafficking."  But here you are, trying to assert that I've said precisely the opposite.

May I suggest that you read your own posts before you hit 'post?'

Jarrod

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #17 on: Mon Sep 26, 2022 - 03:36:47 »
Jarrod, i don’t know if Arizona is protected by the harsh terrain and such...
We don't need protection from the people who are immigrating.  Our economy actually needs unskilled laborers.  But... the heat and lack of water kill a couple hundred people a year, mostly dirt-workers. 

What we need protection from are the people transporting drugs INTO America, and people OUT of America.  They are not immigrants.  They are American smugglers who travel back and forth.  The desert does not prevent this, and in fact assists them in this task (Arizona leads the nation in kidnappings).  We call these people 'coyotes,' because they know the desert like, well... a coyote, and use it to avoid ICE. 

Oh, ICE kills a bunch of people, too.  Those get buried in the desert, so I doubt any statistics exist.  Some of them probably deserve it.  Some of them certainly don't.

But the Texas border is literally overrun and causing problems several hundred miles inland and that is where I live. Midland, Tx is 250 to 300 miles from the border depending on the curves of the Rio Grande. The towns on the border are totally swamped with illegals and their infrastructure is stretched beyond breaking, especially in the towns in the lower Rio Grande valley like McAllen. El Paso where the bimbo Kamala “visited” is not near as busy of a crossing place. There are small towns of 10,000 to 30,000 that literally have an estimated illegal population equal to their normal population at a given time. It’s a human disaster and tragedy even if the sex slave and Fentanyl traffic of the cartels is not considered.
What's wrong with your immigrants?  Why do they not work?

The good news is that Texas Hispanics are quite upset about the fiasco on our border so the Dems might not be be making Texas as purple as they think. They KNOW how stupid and destructive this is.
Most of the immigrants I've had dealings with are conservative where it comes to morality.  If they're becoming Democrats, it is probably because Republicans are perceived as... well, look at Cobalt.

Jarrod

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #18 on: Mon Sep 26, 2022 - 04:26:54 »
We’ve always had a certain amount of illegal immigratio. What’s happening today is is untenable in Texas. Hispanics in Texas are more and more are voting Republican because they don’t like what’s going on. It doesn’t benefit them in any way. When the majority of Hispanics vote Republican, it will all of a sudden be stopped. This is NOT about compassion or not. This will not become OK to me even if they do become Republican voters, but I do believe it will stop by and large when that becomes the case. Increasing legal immigration when we have a shortage of workers is fine with me.  Immigration always should be regulated, whethernitnis white Europeans or brown Mexicans or black Haitians. The chaos now is anything BUT regulated and controlled.

What I meant by “protection” in Arizona, the harsh conditions i would assume keeps a lot of people from crossing there. 
« Last Edit: Mon Sep 26, 2022 - 04:36:22 by Jaime »

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #19 on: Thu Sep 29, 2022 - 02:15:55 »
Quote
We’ve always had a certain amount of illegal immigratio. What’s happening today is is untenable in Texas. Hispanics in Texas are more and more are voting Republican because they don’t like what’s going on. It doesn’t benefit them in any way. When the majority of Hispanics vote Republican, it will all of a sudden be stopped. This is NOT about compassion or not. This will not become OK to me even if they do become Republican voters, but I do believe it will stop by and large when that becomes the case. Increasing legal immigration when we have a shortage of workers is fine with me.  Immigration always should be regulated, whethernitnis white Europeans or brown Mexicans or black Haitians. The chaos now is anything BUT regulated and controlled.

What I meant by “protection” in Arizona, the harsh conditions i would assume keeps a lot of people from crossing there.

I would classify conditions all along the Southwestern border as "harsh."  You have pretty much the same conditions along the California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas border except very narrow bands of less harshness because there is a river there.  It is mainly all barren desert terrain.  Without enough water, you won't get very far.

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #20 on: Thu Sep 29, 2022 - 02:21:02 »
Quote
Most of the immigrants I've had dealings with are conservative where it comes to morality.  If they're becoming Democrats, it is probably because Republicans are perceived as... well, look at Cobalt.

Jarrod

And once again, I will point out that for certain people, it's OK to frequently insult other people.  Well, maybe only if you are a Mod.  Otherwise, not so much.

The problem in Arizona and Texas isn't suddenly not a problem because you say it isn't, and these people are not suddenly legal immigrants because you say they are.  People who don't seem to like the concept of personal responsibility are the ones who re-assign meaning to words when they don't like their actual meaning to make unacceptable behavior suddenly OK.  According to you, it's perfectly acceptable for people to enter the country illegally, as long as they get a job once they are here.  And it's perfectly acceptable to insult people when you feel like it. 


Offline Rella

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #21 on: Thu Sep 29, 2022 - 08:19:41 »
We don't need protection from the people who are immigrating.  Our economy actually needs unskilled laborers.  But... the heat and lack of water kill a couple hundred people a year, mostly dirt-workers. 



Jarrod

Jarrod,

There is a way for many of these unskilled workers to actually come and work here without traipsing across the border.

Ever lawncare and many farmers around here use people from south of the border. They come up though government work programs that the people around here have to sign onto and then at the end of the season they go back home until next year.

Just had 3 large trees removed from a firm with migrant workers who could not speak English. They will not be up here in the winter.

Another landscaping firm actually provides housing for the time they are here.

It is a major source of supply of workers for those businesses here in PA.

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #22 on: Thu Sep 29, 2022 - 09:38:23 »
Yes there is ample opportunity for migrants that want to do it right as to work programs or even getting on a path to citizenship. We need to secure our borders, not lock the gates, but man the gates and have a process. This is not unfair cruelty; it is simply what nations with borders do. Border laws are for maintaining order. Open borders is at best extremely poor management. Organized and regulated immigration is good. Disorganized and unregulated immigration is bad. For those that argue that disorganized and unregulated immigration is good, then 100% disorganization and 100% unregulated immigration is by far the best. NOT! - only in Bizarro World, otherwise it equals total chaos, resulting in endless but justified "Let's Go Brandon" chants.  ::takingphoto::
« Last Edit: Thu Sep 29, 2022 - 09:41:44 by Jaime »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #23 on: Thu Sep 29, 2022 - 20:30:10 »
And once again, I will point out that for certain people, it's OK to frequently insult other people.  Well, maybe only if you are a Mod.  Otherwise, not so much.
I said, "look at Cobalt."  If holding up your words and actions as an example to others is an insult, what does that say about you?

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #24 on: Thu Sep 29, 2022 - 20:34:17 »
There is a way for many of these unskilled workers to actually come and work here without traipsing across the border.

Ever lawncare and many farmers around here use people from south of the border. They come up though government work programs that the people around here have to sign onto and then at the end of the season they go back home until next year.

Just had 3 large trees removed from a firm with migrant workers who could not speak English. They will not be up here in the winter.

Another landscaping firm actually provides housing for the time they are here.

It is a major source of supply of workers for those businesses here in PA.
Yes, there is a way to come here on a work visa, or even as a migrant farm worker.  Have you looked into it?  It's not easy to do. 

Work Visas are only issued to skilled laborers.  Dirt-workers need not apply.  Likewise, becoming a migrant farm worker is only beneficial for those who only need seasonal work.

Our immigration system needs a major overhaul, but everyone already knows that.

Jarrod

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #25 on: Thu Sep 29, 2022 - 20:39:37 »
Yes there is ample opportunity for migrants that want to do it right as to work programs or even getting on a path to citizenship. We need to secure our borders, not lock the gates, but man the gates and have a process. This is not unfair cruelty; it is simply what nations with borders do. Border laws are for maintaining order. Open borders is at best extremely poor management. Organized and regulated immigration is good. Disorganized and unregulated immigration is bad. For those that argue that disorganized and unregulated immigration is good, then 100% disorganization and 100% unregulated immigration is by far the best. NOT! - only in Bizarro World, otherwise it equals total chaos, resulting in endless but justified "Let's Go Brandon" chants.  ::takingphoto::
This all seems reasonable to me.  I'm not in favor of abandoning the post.  I want someone there stopping the cartels and coyotes.

I would like to see the process for immigration simplified or streamlined.  As it stands, immigrants don't apply for work visas because they know they can't get them.  They don't become migrant workers because they need more than seasonal employment.

Bottom line: let in the good people.  This country has always been about welcoming refugees and giving them economic opportunity.  Let's keep doing that.

Offline Jaime

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #26 on: Fri Sep 30, 2022 - 04:34:06 »
Correct Jarrod. We presently don’t have a clue of WHO is coming in for WHAT PURPOSE by standing holding the door open and looking the other way. Besides, with another two years of wildly radical Democrat control, the flow of immigrant traffic could be the other direction.
« Last Edit: Fri Sep 30, 2022 - 05:06:21 by Jaime »

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #27 on: Fri Sep 30, 2022 - 07:23:54 »
About low-skilled jobs that Americans won't do:

Time to re-evaluate some of our social safety net programs so our labor participation rate is a bit higher.

I know in extremely rural areas without immigrants anywhere near, some of those jobs are done by Americans.

Offline Rella

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #28 on: Fri Sep 30, 2022 - 13:12:24 »
About low-skilled jobs that Americans won't do:

Time to re-evaluate some of our social safety net programs so our labor participation rate is a bit higher.

I know in extremely rural areas without immigrants anywhere near, some of those jobs are done by Americans.

True but they are not being done cause the Americans want to... and they are not being done as well.

That is not a racist comment... it is fact

But an uncontrolled border is very dangerous. Very because we have no idea who is coming or why

Offline Texas Conservative

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #29 on: Fri Sep 30, 2022 - 13:22:33 »
True but they are not being done cause the Americans want to... and they are not being done as well.

That is not a racist comment... it is fact

But an uncontrolled border is very dangerous. Very because we have no idea who is coming or why

They are being done just as well in the extremely rural areas.  If people had to do these jobs to be able to eat, things would change.

Many immigrant children who grow up in American culture grow up to be just as lazy as any other American.

Offline Amo

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #30 on: Thu Oct 06, 2022 - 08:15:26 »
Illegal immigration is barely a problem.  Here in Arizona many of those who illegally arrive from Mexico and Central America are hard-working laborers that our economy needs.

The problem is the trafficking of drugs and people back and forth across the border.

Jarrod


Spoken like one truly detached from the problems they do create for a great many people. They obviously are not taking your job, or crowding your streets, or dynamically changing the cultural, racial, political, or financial landscape of your town or city. Not to mention the problems and or damage caused personally to those who own homes or property within their chosen paths of illegal entry. Or the huge cost of caring for and placing millions into society, or more over many times creating whole new communities which have no intention of integrating into our societies, bringing up the massive cultural changes subject again.

Working in construction for about 40 years now I have seen several entire companies and trades completely taken over by them. Displacing countless people who once filled those job positions. While such obviously benefits companies who can pay their employees much lower wages, it obviously also negatively effects those displaced by them.

When I was sub-contracting work, I dealt with this. The company I was subbing for, used them as well, and I ended up having them work on jobs with me. Several of them would show up, install systems faster than I could keep up with at times, and not very well. It was obvious they could copy others work as it were, but did not really understand the dynamics of what they were doing, and therefore wrongly installed certain things. This can change over time of course, if they will learn as they go, as so many do. Driving one home from a job we were working on one day, I had some conversation with him, and found out that there was no way I could compete with these guys price wise. There were twelve of them living together in one home. Splitting payment for the bills and food, and sending as much as possible home to relatives in Mexico. That is why they could work for so much less. My personal overhead was way above theirs, simply because I was an established citizen with a family, home, vehicles , private education, insurance, taxes, and so on and so forth, to keep up. There was no way I could compete price wise with these guys. They weren't here for the same reasons I was at all, they were just here to use the system for a while, to enrich themselves and their families back home at the expense of our nation and people.

This isn't to say they were not productive, or even necessarily evil for using a system put in place for them to do so. It is however to address just a few of the very real problems such creates for those who are displaced by millions of them entering our country. The bottom line is that those effecting all of this, are not the ones most seriously effected by it. Nor apparently do they care about those who are seriously effected. They have a means, which justifies their ends, in their own minds in any case. Politicians elected to represent their citizens in a government which is supposed to be for the people and by the people, do not put the citizens of other nations before those they were elected to serve. When they do, there are obviously ulterior motives involved. Which are basically traitorous in character, concerning what their real jobs should be. All of these things must be carefully weighed and balanced concerning the effects of legal and illegal immigration upon existing populations, by a government which is supposed to be serving them. Obviously our leaders are serving a different purpose than that which they were elected for, when they effect massive immigration seriously and often negatively effecting their own citizens. The link below addresses one of the culprits they are serving unto the globalist agenda, over and above their own people. 

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/seventh-day-adventist-forum-(sda)/immigration-over-conversion/
« Last Edit: Thu Oct 06, 2022 - 08:19:52 by Amo »

Offline Wycliffes_Shillelagh

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #31 on: Thu Oct 06, 2022 - 23:49:42 »
Spoken like one truly detached from the problems they do create for a great many people. They obviously are not taking your job, or crowding your streets, or dynamically changing the cultural, racial, political, or financial landscape of your town or city. Not to mention the problems and or damage caused personally to those who own homes or property within their chosen paths of illegal entry.
I'm in Phoenix, Arizona.  I work with construction companies.  My work involves ensuring compliance with employment regulations, among other things.  I have helped quite a few people legally immigrate to America (and it is a giant pain in the...)  In short, you have made bad assumptions about me.

Or the huge cost of caring for and placing millions into society,
This is always brought up, and it's simply not true.  The immigrants, at least where I am, support themselves.  They rarely receive any social assistance.  Indeed, a condition of legal immigration is that you cannot receive social assistance.  And, a consequence of illegal immigration is that you also cannot receive most social assistance.

The only way that it costs America anything to care for these people is when you incarcerate them.  In that case, they are prevented from supporting themselves, and America does indeed bear the cost.

Working in construction for about 40 years now I have seen several entire companies and trades completely taken over by them. Displacing countless people who once filled those job positions. While such obviously benefits companies who can pay their employees much lower wages, it obviously also negatively effects those displaced by them.
Illegal immigrants are always business owners or subcontractors; never employees (it is illegal to actually hire them as employees).  The penalties for this are prohibitive.  Very few employers try to go around the law on this point, because it is extremely simple and safe to simply keep hiring them on a contractual basis. 

Does this create competition for subcontracted work? Yes. This is not a bad thing.  Capitalism thrives on competition (and fails without it, but I digress).

When I was sub-contracting work, I dealt with this. The company I was subbing for, used them as well, and I ended up having them work on jobs with me. Several of them would show up, install systems faster than I could keep up with at times, and not very well. It was obvious they could copy others work as it were, but did not really understand the dynamics of what they were doing, and therefore wrongly installed certain things. This can change over time of course, if they will learn as they go, as so many do.
This is a problem of licensing and hiring.  If the GenCon is hiring contractors that are not properly licensed (or vetted), then of course the work will be subpar.  This would still be true of any unlicensed/inexperienced contractors, no matter their origins. 

It sounds to me like you were hired perhaps as a QP and saddled with a bunch of amateur workers.  Am I close?  That happens a fair amount.  (If you're acting as a QP, you should have a say in who is hired on the project).

Jarrod

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #32 on: Fri Oct 07, 2022 - 01:17:57 »
Quote
I said, "look at Cobalt."  If holding up your words and actions as an example to others is an insult, what does that say about you?

It says you are insulting another member because you cannot cogently and rationally deal with their post.  When you can come from a position of confidence, insults would be un-necessary.   But you seem to fall back on them frequently.  And that doesn't speak to me at all.  All it illustrates is your less-than-civil behavior when you don't like something someone else says.  And since you are a Mod, that makes it two times worse, because you are also abusing your authority.

Offline Cobalt1959

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #33 on: Fri Oct 07, 2022 - 01:28:25 »
Quote
True but they are not being done cause the Americans want to... and they are not being done as well.

That is not a racist comment... it is fact

But an uncontrolled border is very dangerous. Very because we have no idea who is coming or why

I am not working the job I work because I want to.  My wife is not working the job she wants to.  We work them to earn a living.  When you give a person a choice between getting a job, or paying them to sit at home, the majority of people given that choice will sit at home.  We are paying millions of people to sit at home in an economy, post-Covid, that doesn't have enough people to even accomplish basic supply needs in the supply chain.

When you let people into your country unchallenged, and then supply them with a job, what you are actually saying to them is "It's perfectly acceptable to break our laws if you wish.  We obviously don't care."  And we broadcast this to the extent that nothing is done about child trafficking, and in some cases murder, because secular society seems to not care about the problem at all.  "Citizens won't do those jobs" is never a good excuse to allow illegal aliens to trample the borders.  I don't believe in closing the border.  I believe in tightly monitoring it and only letting in a certain number of people per year, legally.  And if entitlements were changed drastically in this country and people had to work or not have food to eat, things would change drastically.
« Last Edit: Fri Oct 07, 2022 - 01:30:52 by Cobalt1959 »

Offline RB

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Re: The Border Crisis is NOT Just About Illegal Immigration
« Reply #34 on: Fri Oct 07, 2022 - 02:59:10 »
When you can come from a position of confidence, insults would be un-necessary.
Without getting into this discussion at the moment, these words spoken by Cobalt1959 are so true.

At the moment, I'm just reading and pondering before speaking. RB