What Impact Will Having Gay Parents

[cberman]

You are making an arrogant asumption that you are so clever that you are capable of reading his books,and just becuase I have no wish nor desire to do so, then somehow I can not be 'capable'. Sheer arrongance , when you know absolutely nothng about me.

Apologies; it was poorly stated on my part. I got a little riled up. When people begin to denigrate my faith, I tend to get upset. There are a large number of reasons one might not want to read Dawkins that have nothing to do with capability.

Why would I want to read  a book by  man who tells others that there is no God? I know there is,therefore I will stick to books that are full of belief and not doubt.

I read them because I'm interested in his argumentation. As a philosophy major, competing points of view interest me. I also read them because, as a to-be-pastor, it is important for me to know what non-Christians believe and why they believe it.

You really do need to grow up a bit and mature, before you start telling those of us here who have kids much older than you what to believe.

Whoa now. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I have no value in intellectual conversation.

Boy, you really do need to start believing what The Bible says before you even think of becoming a pastor. What good is a pastor who dosnt even believe what The Bible teaches?. (mind you we have a few liberal  church leaders in the UK who dont believe what the Bible says either, and one or two are even Bishops, so it shoudlnt be a surprise, but very very sad.).

I believe what the Bible teaches.

I would point out that it is the height of arrogance to equate your interpretation of Scripture with the Bible itself. Just because I disagree with your interpretation does not mean I disagree with the Bible.

[lightshineon]

Ah but homosexuality is CLEARLY mentioned in scripture, many times, as is sexual sin of many types.Therefore we cannot just ignore it.

You seem to believe little of what the Bible says and instead like to read Richard Dawkins books. hmmm, No wonder you have so much unbelief.
I will leave this discussion as it is purely what you want to believe and not what The Bible says that seems to matter to you.

This is terribly convenient. I've said countless times I'm a Christian. I said I disagree with Richard Dawkins. I've shown how every Bible verse presented on this forum in this discussion and the other in the Politics sub-forum is improperly interpreted. NO ONE HAS ADDRESSED MY ANALYSIS.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php/topic,38712.msg700356.html#msg700356

You say I like to read Richard Dawkins books. I said I read one. I plan to read another. Correspondingly, I read the Bible every singly morning. Just because you are not capable of reading Dawkins without having an existential crisis doesn't mean the rest of us aren't. I plan to be a pastor. That will probably involve some form of apologetics. Accordingly, I need to know what other people believe for the sake of conversation.

I'm not a monk.

 C. look I can read anything the reprobate Dawkins puts out, if I wished to do so. The Bible tells me how to deal with unbelievers, dawkins is the devils best friend. many, many, many, young, middle and old, have their faith destroyed by this devil. Is it Hutchins also that is an atheist, destroying many's faith? If you believe Jesus is Lord, My sincere apologies, but, I want to know do you believe the Bible is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?  Jesus ask "Simon son of Jonas who do you say that I am?" Who do say Jesus is? The Holy Spirit did reveal Dawkins and you to me. Somehow your faith has been derailed, very badly. Do you go to a liberal college? Liberal Professors? You are only twenty, and messing up you faith is a serious thing. Did you know Jesus Loves you, saved, or unsaved? You need the voice of truth. I know the word, and I know the Holy Spirit speaks to me also. You really, really, need to find the real Jesus. Honey, Dawkins does not know any Jesus, so do not look to evil for truth, I know how to talk to you about truth, without someone like Dawkins. BTW, The Holy Spirit did reveal Dawkins to me, why do you think he did? Maybe, just maybe, Christ wants you to do a U-Turn. Think about it.

[chosenone]

You are making an arrogant asumption that you are so clever that you are capable of reading his books,and just becuase I have no wish nor desire to do so, then somehow I can not be 'capable'. Sheer arrongance , when you know absolutely nothng about me.

Apologies; it was poorly stated on my part. I got a little riled up. When people begin to denigrate my faith, I tend to get upset. There are a large number of reasons one might not want to read Dawkins that have nothing to do with capability.

Why would I want to read  a book by  man who tells others that there is no God? I know there is,therefore I will stick to books that are full of belief and not doubt.

I read them because I'm interested in his argumentation. As a philosophy major, competing points of view interest me. I also read them because, as a to-be-pastor, it is important for me to know what non-Christians believe and why they believe it.

You really do need to grow up a bit and mature, before you start telling those of us here who have kids much older than you what to believe.

Whoa now. Just because I'm young doesn't mean I have no value in intellectual conversation.

Boy, you really do need to start believing what The Bible says before you even think of becoming a pastor. What good is a pastor who dosnt even believe what The Bible teaches?. (mind you we have a few liberal  church leaders in the UK who dont believe what the Bible says either, and one or two are even Bishops, so it shoudlnt be a surprise, but very very sad.).

I believe what the Bible teaches.

I would point out that it is the height of arrogance to equate your interpretation of Scripture with the Bible itself. Just because I disagree with your interpretation does not mean I disagree with the Bible.

  So how do you interpret that verse that says for a man to lie with a man is an abomination?

[chosenone]

Ah but homosexuality is CLEARLY mentioned in scripture, many times, as is sexual sin of many types.Therefore we cannot just ignore it.

You seem to believe little of what the Bible says and instead like to read Richard Dawkins books. hmmm, No wonder you have so much unbelief.
I will leave this discussion as it is purely what you want to believe and not what The Bible says that seems to matter to you.

This is terribly convenient. I've said countless times I'm a Christian. I said I disagree with Richard Dawkins. I've shown how every Bible verse presented on this forum in this discussion and the other in the Politics sub-forum is improperly interpreted. NO ONE HAS ADDRESSED MY ANALYSIS.

http://www.gracecentered.com/christian_forums/index.php/topic,38712.msg700356.html#msg700356

You say I like to read Richard Dawkins books. I said I read one. I plan to read another. Correspondingly, I read the Bible every singly morning. Just because you are not capable of reading Dawkins without having an existential crisis doesn't mean the rest of us aren't. I plan to be a pastor. That will probably involve some form of apologetics. Accordingly, I need to know what other people believe for the sake of conversation.

I'm not a monk.

 C. look I can read anything the reprobate Dawkins puts out, if I wished to do so. The Bible tells me how to deal with unbelievers, dawkins is the devils best friend. many, many, many, young, middle and old, have their faith destroyed by this devil. Is it Hutchins also that is an atheist, destroying many's faith? If you believe Jesus is Lord, My sincere apologies, but, I want to know do you believe the Bible is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?  Jesus ask "Simon son of Jonas who do you say that I am?" Who do say Jesus is? The Holy Spirit did reveal Dawkins and you to me. Somehow your faith has been derailed, very badly. Do you go to a liberal college? Liberal Professors? You are only twenty, and messing up you faith is a serious thing. Did you know Jesus Loves you, saved, or unsaved? You need the voice of truth. I know the word, and I know the Holy Spirit speaks to me also. You really, really, need to find the real Jesus. Honey, Dawkins does not know any Jesus, so do not look to evil for truth, I know how to talk to you about truth, without someone like Dawkins. BTW, The Holy Spirit did reveal Dawkins to me, why do you think he did? Maybe, just maybe, Christ wants you to do a U-Turn. Think about it.

 I would listen to this lady. God has revealed this to her, otherwise how on earth would she have known?,Gid may well be triyng to warn you and get you back on track. He may have great things for you but if you are in serious error, he wont use you at all. Why are you eraidng this godless nonsense. Stick to the Bible and books that godly men have written.

[cberman]

C. look I can read anything the reprobate Dawkins puts out, if I wished to do so. The Bible tells me how to deal with unbelievers, dawkins is the devils best friend. many, many, many, young, middle and old, have their faith destroyed by this devil.

The devil's best friend? That's pretty hateful. Can there be no sincerity, no love, no rationality outside of people who hold your worldview?

I believe that there are a great many wonderful people who are merely mistaken. Again, if you accept his premises (which obviously you and I do not), his position makes sense.

Is it Hutchins also that is an atheist, destroying many's faith?

You're thinking of Christopher Hitchens.

If you believe Jesus is Lord, My sincere apologies, but, I want to know do you believe the Bible is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?  Jesus ask "Simon son of Jonas who do you say that I am?" Who do say Jesus is?

I believe the Bible is truth about God. I don't believe it's the whole truth. There's a lot of truth that isn't in the Bible, like mathematical or scientific facts.

I say Jesus is the Son of God, and my Savior.

The Holy Spirit did reveal Dawkins and you to me.

I still don't have any clue what you're talking about. God revealed to you that I am a student of Dawkins? I've only read one of his books, as I've said, and I said right from the get-go that I disagree with him in parts. I agree with him that evolution is true. I disagree with his naturalism, which is the part antagonistic to faith.

I mean, heck, if reading a single book by someone and disagreeing with it makes me a student of that person, then I am a student of a great many persons who disagree with one another.

Somehow your faith has been derailed, very badly. Do you go to a liberal college? Liberal Professors? You are only twenty, and messing up you faith is a serious thing. Did you know Jesus Loves you, saved, or unsaved? You need the voice of truth. I know the word, and I know the Holy Spirit speaks to me also. You really, really, need to find the real Jesus. Honey, Dawkins does not know any Jesus, so do not look to evil for truth, I know how to talk to you about truth, without someone like Dawkins. BTW, The Holy Spirit did reveal Dawkins to me, why do you think he did? Maybe, just maybe, Christ wants you to do a U-Turn. Think about it.

This is so silly. I don't trust in Dawkins. I have no idea where you're getting this idea that I trust Dawkins, or have hope in Dawkins, or that I consider him more truthful than Jesus.

Whatever you think the Spirit revealed to you is not of the Spirit, and it is not true. I am not a student of Dawkins. He is an atheist. I am a Christian.

[cberman]

I would listen to this lady. God has revealed this to her, otherwise how on earth would she have known?,Gid may well be triyng to warn you and get you back on track. He may have great things for you but if you are in serious error, he wont use you at all. Why are you eraidng this godless nonsense. Stick to the Bible and books that godly men have written.

God has revealed what to her? That I am a student of Richard Dawkins? I'm not. That I am an atheist? I'm not. That I hold to naturalism over theism? I don't.

I have no doubt she genuinely believes the Spirit has revealed something to her, but it's false. I'm not a student of Richard Dawkins. I've read his book; that's it. I read a lot of books.

[phoebe]

You might want to inform the Episcopal and Lutheran churches that they don't believe in the Bible. I'm sure they would be interested in hearing that.

It isn't so much that they don't believe it, but that they don't teach it.  And I'm sure they've already been told, and by many of their own members who have left.

I know a couple where husband and wife are both clergy.  One could not uphold the teachings of the Episcopalian church and left for another denom.  Sad that they not only pastor at different churches, but that they no longer worship God together. 

[Elaine]

Sometimes I think obsessing about it (not accusing anyone here) is more sinful than

Elaine, having a discussion about something doesn't mean we are obsessed by it......... unless we discuss it for maybe a year or two like some of these threads reflect.

That's precisely why I said I "wasn't accusing anyone here".
The amount of homosexual threads makes one wonder -somebody, somewhere is.
They're equal to the tatoo threads!!  LOL

Elaine, why are you trying to annoy me? I thought we were on the same side of truth.

Hi Bonnie,

I may annoy someone - but I don't "try" to annoy them. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I hate annoyances. People can view things from a different perspective, right?  I'd love it if everyone saw things similarly ( doesn't have to be exactly) - or at least tolerate another's view.

I thought I was being careful NOT to ruffle feathers by saying "I'm not accusing anyone" ---sorry if it upset you - I think you took me wrong.
But, hey, my view is nothing new ----I'm extremely tolerant of gays ( and drunks and liars and procrastinaters and late people and selfish people and slobs and gluttons and smokers,and ,and ,and)  ---I just don't care much about them here nor there and I can see their kids are just fine. Lot's better than many brought up in hetero fams. as we all know.

Like JohnDB said something about them not going to Heaven ---Well exactly ---then why not treat them nicely here for their short time. :) It's God's job to judge and mine to love. Period.  (Another bumper sticker idea!)

That's my logic.   It's not deliberately meant to annoy --- yet, still it does.
Oh well, people do things all the time opposite of the way I think they should be done, again ....Oh well.

What can I do - we just don't all see things from the same  perspective - but I'm not sure we "mean" to annoy.

Thanks,
:)Elaine

[Bonnie]

The devil's best friend? That's pretty hateful. Can there be no sincerity, no love, no rationality outside of people who hold your worldview?

Yes there can and is. We just don't compromise the scriptures. They seem very plain on this subject. I would think that anyone reading them could only agree on that.

[Bonnie]

Elaine, it's post #6 of yours that made me think that you were trying to annoy me.  Why else go and on that you are afraid you will annoy me?

I'm not annoyed by the main contents of the post at all but if you thought it would annoy me, why post it?

Also, I may be forgetting some topics but I don't remember the children of homo's being discussed before.

Some topics are discussed often because of new members and I can understand that. I'm not judging what people discuss but sometimes it does get a little boring.

[lightshineon]

I would listen to this lady. God has revealed this to her, otherwise how on earth would she have known?,Gid may well be trying to warn you and get you back on track. He may have great things for you but if you are in serious error, he wont use you at all. Why are you eraidng this godless nonsense. Stick to the Bible and books that godly men have written.

God has revealed what to her? That I am a student of Richard Dawkins? I'm not. That I am an atheist? I'm not. That I hold to naturalism over theism? I don't.

I have no doubt she genuinely believes the Spirit has revealed something to her, but it's false. I'm not a student of Richard Dawkins. I've read his book; that's it. I read a lot of books.

 Believe what you want to believe about me and the Holy Spirit. Why would you read that mans book, you cannot handle it? I say this because you do not believe God's word is 100% truth.  So you mix darkness and light Dawkins , Hitchens, and the Bible each in your opinion containing a little bit of half-truths. Makes sense Chris. Why do you not read the case for Christ by Lee Stroble or the case for Creation by Lee Stroble. I would not lie about the Holy Spirit, so take it as a warning, or just be arrogant and see what happens. If you do not believe the Bible 100 truth you do not believe in the real Jesus.

 Ever read the first Ch. of John? If so what does it say, about who Jesus? It says in the begging was the word, and the word became flesh, and dwelt among us. So what parts do you choose to believe and not believe? Why would I even know you read Dawkins I do not know you? It just blows my mind you cannot see. I just had a psychic experience or what in your view, or a lucky guess (LOL)

[lightshineon]

The devil's best friend? That's pretty hateful. Can there be no sincerity, no love, no rationality outside of people who hold your worldview?

Yes there can and is. We just don't compromise the scriptures. They seem very plain on this subject. I would think that anyone reading them could only agree on that.

 Yes the main and plain things do not need Strong's, or three theologians.

[cberman]

Believe what you want to believe about me and the Holy Spirit.

Let us be clear. I believe in the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I believe that the Spirit may reveal some things to some people.

But if someone says to me, 'The Spirit told me that a meteor just dropped down and killed your pet lemur,' when I have no pet lemur, I'm not exactly inclined to believe them.

Whatever it is you feel, it is false. I am not a student of Dawkins. Dawkins would thoroughly disapprove of my belief system.

Why would you read that mans book, you cannot handle it? I say this because you do not believe God's word is 100% truth.  So you mix darkness and light Dawkins , Hitchens, and the Bible each in your opinion containing a little bit of half-truths. Makes sense Chris.

I believe that God's Word is entirely true. If you are referring to the fact that I disagree with your interpretation, then let us be clear. I do not think your interpretation is entirely true. But your interpretation is not equal to the Book of God.

Why do you not read the case for Christ by Lee Stroble or the case for Creation by Lee Stroble.

I've already read those, as well as 'Case for Faith'. They're ok. Not my favorite style of apologetics, and I have a few quarrels with some of the cases made.

I would not lie about the Holy Spirit, so take it as a warning, or just be arrogant and see what happens. If you do not believe the Bible 100 truth you do not believe in the real Jesus.

I do not think you are lying. Lying requires maliciousness, and a thorough attempt to deceive. I think you honestly believe that the Spirit told you something. Unfortunately, what you think the Spirit told you involves me, and I can see that it is false. I am not a student of Dawkins.

Ever read the first Ch. of John? If so what does it say, about who Jesus? It says in the begging was the word, and the word became flesh, and dwelt among us. So what parts do you choose to believe and not believe? Why would I even know you read Dawkins I do not know you? It just blows my mind you cannot see. I just had a psychic experience or what in your view, or a lucky guess (LOL)

You claimed earlier that I am a Dawkins follower. You said that that is what the Spirit told you. It's entirely false. I even said from the moment we introduced him into this discussion that I disagreed with him. I'm a Christian. He is a naturalist. We're like oil and water when it comes to fundamental beliefs.

You've been somewhat hazy in this topic. Originally, you claimed that the Spirit told you I was a Dawkins follower (or, as you put it, a 'student of Dawkins'). Now you're kinda insinuating that the Spirit told you I've read Dawkins. Which is it? If it's the first, it's, as I said before you even mentioned receiving a divine message, false, and (if I were you), I'd be a bit more careful about spiritual communications you receive in the future. If it's the second, then why the sudden change from 'student/follower of Dawkins' to 'reader of Dawkins'? Those are two very different things, and I have a hard time believing the Spirit would fudge up those details.

[lightshineon]

 The Holy spirit did not fudge up. I just put in different context Chris, because you do not get it. You contradict yourself more than anyone I have seen. Argue with the Holy Spirit, some of us know his voice, some do not. Forget it, believe in a reprobate way, it is your soul.

[chosenone]

There are some things in the Bible that need no interpretation. There are some things that God CLEARLY says are wrong, and among these are sexual sins such as adultery, fornication, incest, bestiality and homosexual sex.These are condemned many times.There really is no other way to interpret tham as far as I can see.
I fear for you if you cannot even accept things that are THIS clear in the Bible. I also fear for you if you really are telling people that it is OK ot do something that The Bible clearly condemns , Its like me going round telling people that it is perfectly Ok to cheat on your spouse, or rob a bank, or shoot someone, or abuse their children, or sleep arund or whatever.I would be held accountable for those thinsg that I said. This teaching is one of the BASIC CLEAR teachings in the Bible.

You also seem to forget that there are men and women who God has set free from homosexuality that have gone on to marry and be a dad/mum and husband/'wife. I actually have 2 books in my house written by 2 such men, and it has happened to many many others.
There is an amazing Christian place near me that teaches on, among other things, Gods plan for sex, and they have seen many people set free from homosexuality or lesbianism. Thay have many testimonies of this happening after teaching, ministry, prayer and in some cases deliverance.
God can do this and He loves to see people restored to what He created them to be. Does He love those who struggle in this area? Of course he does. Does he want them to continue to Live this way?. Of course not. He wants them to live HIS way and to be free.