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Author Topic: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?  (Read 2285 times)

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Online Jaime

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2009, 06:10:04 AM »
All Christians are healed of a lifelong disease when they die.

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2009, 06:10:04 AM »

Offline Elaine

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2009, 11:37:15 AM »
Sickness is from Satan. There wasn't any sickness before the fall. Also many are healed after deliverance. Sadly most churches don't have anything to do with this, but it is all there, in the Bible.


Yup, dis-ease comes from satan, the devil, the evil one and all his minons  ::nodding::  but, happily, the churches I know of do healings.
(I don't pay any attention to the others.)

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2009, 11:37:15 AM »

Offline Elaine

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2009, 11:38:32 AM »
We could ask a couple of our members to ask Jesus when they talk to him again - that'll settle this hash...

That was funny.

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2009, 11:38:32 AM »

Online Jaime

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 12:13:01 PM »
Sickness is from Satan. There wasn't any sickness before the fall. Also many are healed after deliverance. Sadly most churches don't have anything to do with this, but it is all there, in the Bible.


Yup, dis-ease comes from satan, the devil, the evil one and all his minons  ::nodding::  but, happily, the churches I know of do healings.
(I don't pay any attention to the others.)

My church celebrates healings also, but some are not healed. We still have funerals.

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2009, 12:13:01 PM »

Offline Elaine

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2009, 12:16:19 PM »
God certain can heal all our sickness and disease, and sometimes He does.  But it's important to remember the sometimes. 

The problem with the kind of thinking demonstrated in the op is that it equates our ability to be healed with our faith.  This kind of reasoning can destroy our faith if God says no, which He sometimes does--He even told Paul no, remember, and Paul certainly can't be accused of lack of faith.

God promised to give us everything we need, not everything we want.

I've seen God heal whomever came up for healing. He doesn't show favorites. God is no respecter of persons. If He's willing to heal one person, He will heal another. By His stripes we are healed(Isaiah53:5). That is the Word of God. Jesus came to set the captives free(Luke4:18). Whether that be physically, emotionally or spiritually.

You mention that God gives us everything we need. Healing is a need. Not being delivered will hold people back. The woman who was bent over for 18 years, this was causing havoc in her life. She wouldn't have been able to work, she'd probably have a hard time finding a man, perhaps pain and suffering would have went with it, she "needed healing."

Quote
God promised to give us everything we need, not everything we want.

That stuck out like a sore thumb for me ---I know people look at things from different sides and all ---but this is the side I look at that  - this is not exactly to disagree -to each his own --this is my "own" -and I do own it for myself...

This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.  And if we know that he hears us - whatever we ask - we know that we have what we asked of him.   

1 John 5:14-15

Healing is sooo very "according to His will "-oh boy, is it ever ---Jesus' ministry was a healing ministry - My Father and I are one - "whatever we ask " means "whatever we ask". To "know that we have" is to "know that we have".

This is how I look at it.   Either there is doubt in those words or there is not.
Either God is an Indian giver when He says something or He is not. Either He is a liar or He is not. We believe in His promises or we don't.

We trust or we don't. We hold firm when He says. "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it."  John 14:14  Or he won't.   See? Which is it for each of us?

We can throw in a bit of lee way (sp?) thus leaving that itty bitty room for doubt -("maybe it's not what God thinks I need...") or we stand firm on God's Word ---that Jesus came for us to live abundantly. John 10:10  (That doesn't mean sickly.)

Or He simply didn't.   Do you really think He does not want us healed and living in health ---why did He not deny even one person a healing?   He was the perfect image of God ----or maybe He wasn't??   Is that it ---maybe He wasn't??

Well, I believe He was -and God wants us healed. Period ---now anyone else can look at it any other way they want.

This isn't to start some argument ---it's how I read these things. And I 've been healed of physical problems.




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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2009, 12:16:19 PM »



Offline Elaine

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2009, 12:49:18 PM »
My church celebrates healings also, but some are not healed. We still have funerals.

 rofl rofl rofl
Well, that's no church I'd be going to ---get out quick, Jaime!!!

Offline llewksgood

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2009, 01:04:29 PM »
Sickness is a result of the curse, which works by the law.

Now with regards to the curse one would have to ask, who gave the law? The answer to that is obvious. God did. So you could say God created sickness, and this would fit in with the revelation of the old testament, "...I created evil... [see Isaiah]."

However there is strong indication in Scripture that the administration of the curse has been placed in the dominion of satan -- death and hell are in satan's dominion -- so you could argue that sickness comes from satan, and still be right.

But then the Bible tells us that the sting of death is sin and we know that sickness works towards death. We also know that without Adam and Eve's rebellion the curse had no power. Thus it could also be said that sickness comes from within you.

The important thing is not where disease originates from, but that Jesus has given us authority over it. There is little doubt in my mind that Jesus said that it is "the power of the enemy". Sickness exists to glorify God when it is banished from any individual, no matter who they are.

Instead of griping about what churches do, or don't do; why not use the ability you received when you believed? You should not be relying on man or denomination, but on Christ. The authority to heal the sick and cast out devils is given to every believer -- everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ. You are equipped therefore YOU go into all the world and preach the gospel to everyone.

Offline Elaine

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2009, 03:14:28 PM »
Goodlookin',
We have the authority and are equipped.... ::nodding::

Offline canuck

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2009, 01:00:38 PM »
Re sickness coming from Satan

God is the one who initially brought sickness on the human race-- not Satan. It is the curse the Lord enacted on humanity due to adam's disobedience -- the curse of death (see Gen. 2:17) that resulted in our flawed human constitution that is presently unable to ward off the various microbes, viruses etc. that have plagued this cursed Earth since the Fall. We should all take note that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is in the business of creating, healing but also wounding and killing (see Deut. 32:39).

We also need to understand that while Satan's raison d'etre is to steal, kill and destroy (see John 10:10 ), and while God has allowed him to perpetrate evil amongst mankind, he can only go so far as God permits (see Job 1:12 ; 2:6).

canuck

Offline Cally

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2009, 01:57:49 AM »
The condition of being sick is not an indication of a lack of faith.

EVERYONE who is sick is headed in the direction of getting well, some way or another. (no one enjoys being sick) Along with every other "bad thing" the purpose of sickness is the opportunity to show redemption.

John--9:1 As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth.
9:2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
9:3 Jesus answered, "Neither did this man sin, nor his parents; but, that the works of God might be revealed in him.

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2009, 01:57:49 AM »

Offline rach1370

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2009, 02:38:22 AM »
Upon reading the OP and some of the following posts, I felt I had to reply. To believe that a person who is ill is in some way at fault, be it through sinning, or lack of belief, is so wrong, its just sad. If you bear with me, I'll tell you why...
I am a christian, my life happily rests in Gods grace, and I also have a chronic illness. I have prayed for years that God may heal me, as it is no easy thing to be so unwell with a young family. I have even had my church elders pray over me, as it stated in James. The Lord has chosen not to heal me, and while for some time I mourned this, a short time ago I suddenly realised that it was my very illness that brought me where I am today. I am a stronger christian, by far, and am trusting my Lord to led me wherever he wants me. I have become involved in a wonderful church that has God at its centre and have the opportunity to serve the people of my communtiy through it.
All of this because I had an illness. You see, God sees the bigger picture, and if it glorifies God for someone to be unwell, then unwell they shall be! I would not trade my illness now, if I am to be sick to be able to show my love and gratitude to God, then I shall cling to it!!
Rach

Offline Cally

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2009, 02:44:54 AM »
Upon reading the OP and some of the following posts, I felt I had to reply. To believe that a person who is ill is in some way at fault, be it through sinning, or lack of belief, is so wrong, its just sad. If you bear with me, I'll tell you why...
I am a christian, my life happily rests in Gods grace, and I also have a chronic illness. I have prayed for years that God may heal me, as it is no easy thing to be so unwell with a young family. I have even had my church elders pray over me, as it stated in James. The Lord has chosen not to heal me, and while for some time I mourned this, a short time ago I suddenly realised that it was my very illness that brought me where I am today. I am a stronger christian, by far, and am trusting my Lord to led me wherever he wants me. I have become involved in a wonderful church that has God at its centre and have the opportunity to serve the people of my communtiy through it.
All of this because I had an illness. You see, God sees the bigger picture, and if it glorifies God for someone to be unwell, then unwell they shall be! I would not trade my illness now, if I am to be sick to be able to show my love and gratitude to God, then I shall cling to it!!
Rach

I like your testimony, although I don't think you should stop pursuing wellness or even stop asking God--Paul had a thorn in his flesh because of an extreme knowledge, and while grace is sufficient for all of us, I think most of us should be persistent with healing so long as our eyes are foremost set on the coming kingdom.

I think if someone is conflicted about this issue, he should just pray, "if you are willing, make me healed," and not give up on the general directive of his livelihood. God doesn't stick his nose up at this prayer one way or the other (one whom Jesus healed asked that way), nor does it hinder a prayer for healing.

"By your will, not mine," one way or the other, and don't turn it into something you do--that's where so many healing ministries have caught themselves going wrong and haven't figured out how to fix it that simple, simple way. Part of the reason for that is that they're determined to legitimize "their" ministry in the face of others, which, sadly, is always what feeds the faction noise.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 03:20:11 AM by Cally »

Offline llewksgood

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2009, 01:05:40 PM »
To suggest that Paul's thorn in the flesh was an illness is speculation, he doesn't actually say what he is referring to.

To say that the failure to procure your healing indicates a lack of faith is a little too simplistic. It is infinitely better to die sick in Christ than to die whole without him. To rach1370 I say, how do you know God will not heal you? Yes, he has not healed you... yet. Yes, you have asked and, as I understand Jesus' words and actions, asking presupposes faith. Now you believe you have received an understanding from God, and that is good, and it is good that you live by it; but you have not reached that point in your life where God cannot heal you.

Concerning cally's reference to the will of God I agree, yet disagree. To pray for healing is to pray in the will of God Jesus taught us to pray, "thy kingdom come, thy will be done," and later testified, "if I, by the finger of God cast out devils then the Kingdom of God is revealed among you." When we pray for one another to be healed, and it happens, it reveals the power and authority of God through Jesus Christ. I would that we saw more of it.

Take another look at Hebrews 11 concerning faith. Faith is not the ability to always get what you want. Faith is the attitude of obedience to God no matter what your circumstance, but this faith has the infinite ability to receive all things from God. Now he that said, "believe in me and have everlasting life," also said, "believing, go into all the world and preach the gospel with signs following." It is obedience to heal the sick, cast out devils, and do all things in the name of Jesus Christ.

Let me just say that it is our expectation that often hinders us in seeing the glory of God revealed. This is what I have seen in the denominations and factions. Where there is little or no expectation for God to show his glory in this way they do not practice the laying on of hands that others may be healed. Rather there is debate and confusion. If you do not obey the instruction of Christ you cannot receive the benefits he has promised by them.

I have right now, rach1730, asked God for a gift for your healing that you may find a new rejoicing in Jesus Christ. This is what I do. If one is sick I ask God to heal them -- to give someone close to them the absolute assurance when they lay hands on them they will be healed. Then I wait to see it done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Since I know that God is no respecter of persons I always ask myself, why should I be healed on no less than 5 occasions and another never experience it once? That is my story and why I cannot accept that God has no intention of healing anyone.

Read the gospels and see how long some were sick before they were healed -- 12 years and more. God's word is coming to heal you, and indeed has already arrived. Do not despair.

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2009, 04:56:33 PM »

Dear llewksgood, though it is not said what Paul's thorn was, there is reason to speculate that Paul's thorn was an affliction in his eyes considering the following verses.

Galatians 4:13  Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

Galatians 4:14  And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:15  Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me.
 
Galatians 6:11  Ye see how large (#1) a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand.
 
#1   Strong's - denoting geometrical magnitude as distinguished from arithmetical -
My understanding is to have been large font used instead of length of letter.   

In Jesus' name - larry2


Offline rach1370

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Re: Where Do You Think Sickness And Disease Really Come From?
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2009, 06:14:26 PM »
Hi all! Of course if God heals me I will be overjoyed! I am not one of those people who enjoy suffering! I do have hope that he will eventually take this illness away, my point (perhaps poorly expressed) was that my illness is a small price to pay to know Jesus better!
Rach  ::smile::