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Author Topic: why do Christians support Israel-???  (Read 14204 times)

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Offline toodtocare

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #120 on: September 13, 2010, 07:27:21 AM »
“When the Lord Jesus and all the holy ones with Him return according to Zech 14:5, I will let you tell the Lord why the Jews don't belong there!

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #120 on: September 13, 2010, 07:27:21 AM »

Offline Eagle

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #121 on: September 13, 2010, 08:54:39 AM »
When in history was the last time the Jewish nation, held the land? The land i am asking about is the land God gave to Abe?

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #121 on: September 13, 2010, 08:54:39 AM »

Offline toodtocare

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #122 on: September 13, 2010, 10:47:22 AM »
“When in history was the last time the Jewish nation, held the land? The land i am asking about is the land God gave to Abe?

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #122 on: September 13, 2010, 10:47:22 AM »

Offline John 10:10

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #123 on: September 13, 2010, 11:10:18 AM »
“When the Lord Jesus and all the holy ones with Him return according to Zech 14:5, I will let you tell the Lord why the Jews don't belong there!

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #123 on: September 13, 2010, 11:10:18 AM »

Offline Eagle

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #124 on: September 13, 2010, 10:19:38 PM »
I will ask again....

When was the last time the Jewish nation, the Jewish people, The descendants of Abram held the land God gave to Abram?

Gen 15:18  In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:


Quote
First of all the term “nation

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #124 on: September 13, 2010, 10:19:38 PM »



Offline TonkaTim

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #125 on: September 13, 2010, 10:37:16 PM »
Eagle,

From the Euphrates to the Nile?

Never.

Unless we look at it from perspective of believers in Christ, then all that and beyond.

Offline Eagle

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #126 on: September 14, 2010, 07:41:42 AM »
Eagle,

From the Euphrates to the Nile?

Never.

Unless we look at it from perspective of believers in Christ, then all that and beyond.

I tend to agree Tonka... I have also wondered how to reconcile my thoughts with this verse......

Jos 21:43  And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

Offline John 10:10

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #127 on: September 14, 2010, 10:00:53 AM »
I will ask again....

When was the last time the Jewish nation, the Jewish people, The descendants of Abram held the land God gave to Abram?

(1)  Let's first look at who God gave the current land of Israel to.

7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.
8 "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession ; and I will be their God."

(2)  Now let's look at when the Jews last held the current land of Israel.

Luke 21:24 and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations ; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

This occured in 70 AD when Titus conquered the city of Jerusalem, and about 1 million Jews were killed according to Josephus.  The rest were led captive into all the nations.

(3)  Finally, let's consider the current status of the Jews now in Israel.  Some may consider what has happened since 1948 was a mistake, and that God has had nothing to do with bringing the Jews back to the land He promised to Abraham's descendants for an everlasting possession and establishing the nation of Israel, and that this current Middle East mess is all man's doing. 

For those who do not believe God foretold the re-gathering of the Jews in the original land of Canaan shortly before our Lord returns, no amount of Scripture will convince them. 

For those of us who do believe God foretold the re-gathering of the Jews in the original land of Canaan shortly before our Lord returns, it's all going according to God's plan, and we're priviledged to be a praying/active part of God's plan.

Blessings

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #128 on: September 14, 2010, 10:34:51 AM »
Eagle,

From the Euphrates to the Nile?

Never.

Unless we look at it from perspective of believers in Christ, then all that and beyond.

I tend to agree Tonka... I have also wondered how to reconcile my thoughts with this verse......

Jos 21:43  And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

I've heard discussions the land which the southern tip reached, the Wadi Of Egypt aka the Brook of Egypt, that it was was much bigger at the time and we confuse it with the Nile today. Due to early climate change the land and river flows look alot different to day. The Pharper River a tributary of Euphrates the northern border and the Wadi of Eqypt would have been the great river of the southern border. Fulfilling the land promise.

I've also heard the now dried up Pelusiun arm of the Nile also could have connected to the Wadi of Egypt when it was bigger making it part of the ancient Nile river system.

I have little knwoledge on this subject, but it may be a subject worthy of study & consideration.

Offline Eagle

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #129 on: September 14, 2010, 12:09:53 PM »
Quote
.......everlasting possession......


How and why does one REposes an EVERLASTING POSSESSION?

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #129 on: September 14, 2010, 12:09:53 PM »

Offline Eagle

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #130 on: September 14, 2010, 12:15:24 PM »
Thanks Tonka for a good direct answer. Not saying i agree but sure appreciate the answer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have learned to distrust many Bible scholars, one of the first reasons is the 'gap' therory. We must fit into scripture not force the scripture to fit us. ( Not implying Tonka is force fitting anything.) 

Offline TonkaTim

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #131 on: September 14, 2010, 12:26:18 PM »
Thanks Tonka for a good direct answer. Not saying i agree but sure appreciate the answer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have learned to distrust many Bible scholars, one of the first reasons is the 'gap' therory. We must fit into scripture not force the scripture to fit us. ( Not implying Tonka is force fitting anything.) 

Agreed.



(I'm not  - just stating I've heard it discussed  ::pondering::)

Offline John 10:10

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #132 on: September 14, 2010, 01:18:53 PM »
Quote
  .......everlasting possession......

How and why does one REposes an EVERLASTING POSSESSION?

By reading the end of the story!

Offline Eagle

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #133 on: September 14, 2010, 01:26:03 PM »
John 1010

Your wife gives you 'everlasting love'..... if at some point you have to regain that love it was not 'everlasting'.

The promise to Abram was conditional. God kept His part. We can count on Him we (mankind) fail He does not.

John your view is different than mine, i am interested in your thoughts of ...Jos 21:43  And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

Offline John 10:10

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #134 on: September 14, 2010, 01:54:30 PM »
John 1010

Your wife gives you 'everlasting love'..... if at some point you have to regain that love it was not 'everlasting'.

The promise to Abram was conditional. God kept His part. We can count on Him we (mankind) fail He does not.

John your view is different than mine, i am interested in your thoughts of ...Jos 21:43  And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
   

God's promises and possessing God's promises are two different issues.  God promised or "gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers" for an everlasting possession.  Possession of the land was always conditional on the Jewish people being obedient to the conditions of God's promises.  But there is coming a time when and after our Lord returns where "born again" Jews will possess the land for all of eternity.