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Author Topic: why do Christians support Israel-???  (Read 14139 times)

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Offline toodtocare

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #75 on: August 07, 2010, 03:42:57 PM »
When the nations gather against Jerusalem to battle in Zech 14:2, the Jews will be living in the land God gave for an everlasting covenant to Abraham and his descendants, "then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle" (Zech 14:3).

When this battle takes place, the nations that fight against Israel will lose big time.


Oh please grow up. That battle took place thousands of years ago and afterwards the Israelites broke the Lord’s covenants and were thrown out. They have done nothing to deserve God’s grace and allowing them to return today.

They returned out of spite not God’s good will. And they will gooo the same way they came or be carried out.

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #75 on: August 07, 2010, 03:42:57 PM »

Online Jaime

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #76 on: August 07, 2010, 03:57:44 PM »
When the nations gather against Jerusalem to battle in Zech 14:2, the Jews will be living in the land God gave for an everlasting covenant to Abraham and his descendants, "then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle" (Zech 14:3).

When this battle takes place, the nations that fight against Israel will lose big time.


Oh please grow up. That battle took place thousands of years ago and afterwards the Israelites broke the Lord’s covenants and were thrown out. They have done nothing to deserve God’s grace and allowing them to return today.

They returned out of spite not God’s good will. And they will gooo the same way they came or be carried out.


Or Romans 11 is not a farce. No one said they "deserve" anything.

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #76 on: August 07, 2010, 03:57:44 PM »

Online Jaime

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #77 on: August 07, 2010, 03:59:05 PM »
Time hasn't run out. See Romans 11.

You are going to have to do better than just reference a book in the Bible. If you cannot be more specific then you have nothing specific to say. Which leads us down a blind alley a place I will not venture.


I have quoted Romans 11 several times in this thread and I'm sure you haven't read it. I didn't for over 40 years. Try it, it's not that long, only 36 verses. We do have the online bible at the top of the page. Nothing I can add is any better than that one little chapter.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 04:06:17 PM by Jaime »

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #77 on: August 07, 2010, 03:59:05 PM »

Online Jaime

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #78 on: August 07, 2010, 04:07:49 PM »
Also as a moderator, I ask you to debate and cease the "oh grow up" type statements. That is if you want to continue here.

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #78 on: August 07, 2010, 04:07:49 PM »

Offline Huscarl

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #79 on: August 07, 2010, 04:55:06 PM »
It's the fact that debates like this even exist within Christian circles that does more to make me ashamed of calling myself a Christian than even those televangelist nut jobs

You pervert God's word to justify prejudice, which is disgusting.   And Christ himself was a Jew

"Love your neighbor as yourself."

And no I will not provide the book/chapter/verse for that one.  Even though you probably need it since you only pick and choose verses to create the most cynical, despicable interpretation I've heard in quite some time.

I will say nothing more because there is no point debating anti-semites, period.  I'll try and bring myself to pray for you later, if I can

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #79 on: August 07, 2010, 04:55:06 PM »



Offline toodtocare

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #80 on: August 10, 2010, 12:46:26 PM »
On an internet forum I found this post—

JERUSALEM (EJP)---The Jewish Agency for Israel brought 1,000 new immigrants from 17 countries to Israel last week, including 550 new olim from France, more than 100 from the United Kingdom, 60 from South Africa and 170 from South America.

You can move them around from one country to another but still their numbers continue to shrink until there is none left standing.

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population

Still they are being gathered as it was written. This I cannot deny.

(Ezek 20:41 KJV) I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered ; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen.

(Ezek 20:43 KJV) And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled ; and ye shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.

(Ezek 20:44 KJV) And ye shall know that I am the LORD , when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings , O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

(Ezek 21:2 KJV) Son of man, set thy face toward Jerusalem , and drop thy word toward the holy places, and prophesy against the land of Israel,

(Ezek 21:3 KJV) And say to the land of Israel, Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I am against thee , and will draw forth my sword out of his sheath, and will cut off from thee the righteous and the wicked.

(Ezek 21:24 KJV) Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have made your iniquity to be remembered, in that your transgressions are discovered, so that in all your doings your sins do appear; because, I say, that ye are come to remembrance, ye shall be taken with the hand.

(Ezek 21:25 KJV) And thou, profane wicked prince of Israel, whose day is come, when iniquity shall have an end,

(Ezek 21:30 KJV) Shall I cause it to return into his sheath? I will judge thee in the place where thou wast created, in the land of thy nativity.

(Ezek 21:31 KJV) And I will pour out mine indignation upon thee, I will blow against thee in the fire of my wrath , and deliver thee into the hand of brutish men, and skilful to destroy.

(Ezek 21:32 KJV) Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire ; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered : for I the LORD have spoken it.

(Ezek 22:4 KJV) Thou art become guilty in thy blood that thou hast shed; and hast defiled thyself in thine idols which thou hast made; and thou hast caused thy days to draw near , and art come even unto thy years: therefore have I made thee a reproach unto the heathen, and a mocking to all countries.

(Ezek 22:5 KJV) Those that be near, and those that be far from thee, shall mock thee, which art infamous and much vexed.


I don’t think this is what the Israelis had in mind, do you--?

Offline fish153

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #81 on: August 10, 2010, 01:16:57 PM »
When the nations gather against Jerusalem to battle in Zech 14:2, the Jews will be living in the land God gave for an everlasting covenant to Abraham and his descendants, "then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle" (Zech 14:3).

When this battle takes place, the nations that fight against Israel will lose big time.


Oh please grow up. That battle took place thousands of years ago and afterwards the Israelites broke the Lord’s covenants and were thrown out. They have done nothing to deserve God’s grace and allowing them to return today.

They returned out of spite not God’s good will. And they will gooo the same way they came or be carried out.


No one has ever done anything to "deserve God's Grace" (as you put it).  God saves sinners with undeserved favor (Grace), and God is restoring Israel by His undeserved favor (Grace) also. God is fulfilling His prophecy because of His Word and promise, not based on Israel's behavior now or in the past.  God is restoring them because He promised to do so,  not because they do/do not deserve it.

Offline John 10:10

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #82 on: August 10, 2010, 03:20:00 PM »
When the nations gather against Jerusalem to battle in Zech 14:2, the Jews will be living in the land God gave for an everlasting covenant to Abraham and his descendants, "then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle" (Zech 14:3).

When this battle takes place, the nations that fight against Israel will lose big time. 


Oh please grow up. That battle took place thousands of years ago and afterwards the Israelites broke the Lord’s covenants and were thrown out. They have done nothing to deserve God’s grace and allowing them to return today.

They returned out of spite not God’s good will. And they will gooo the same way they came or be carried out.

If the battle of Zech 14:2-3 took place thousands of years ago, then I guess these verses are also past tense?

4 In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east ; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.
5 You will flee by the valley of My mountains, for the valley of the mountains will reach to Azel ; yes, you will flee just as you fled before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD, my God, will come, and all the holy ones with Him!
6 In that day there will be no light ; the luminaries will dwindle.

Online Jaime

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #83 on: August 10, 2010, 06:43:38 PM »
Small detail John.

Offline Eagle

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #84 on: August 10, 2010, 09:43:09 PM »
Which half is Jesus standing on? When the Mount splits what happens to the city Jerusalem?


Quote
No one has ever done anything to "deserve God's Grace" (as you put it).  God saves sinners with undeserved favor (Grace), and God is restoring Israel by His undeserved favor (Grace) also. God is fulfilling His prophecy because of His Word and promise, not based on Israel's behavior now or in the past.  God is restoring them because He promised to do so,  not because they do/do not deserve it.

I fully agree  "God saves sinners with undeserved favor " BUT the promis to Abe was conditional.

Gen 18:19  For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #84 on: August 10, 2010, 09:43:09 PM »

Offline revmitchell

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #85 on: August 10, 2010, 10:26:21 PM »
Which half is Jesus standing on? When the Mount splits what happens to the city Jerusalem?


Quote
No one has ever done anything to "deserve God's Grace" (as you put it).  God saves sinners with undeserved favor (Grace), and God is restoring Israel by His undeserved favor (Grace) also. God is fulfilling His prophecy because of His Word and promise, not based on Israel's behavior now or in the past.  God is restoring them because He promised to do so,  not because they do/do not deserve it.

I fully agree  "God saves sinners with undeserved favor " BUT the promis to Abe was conditional.

Gen 18:19  For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.


In fact it was not conditional. It was one sided as indicated in Genesis 15. Only God walked between the two sides of the heifer. If it was conditional both Abraham and God would have walked between them.

Offline Eagle

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2010, 07:33:13 AM »
Odd how we ALL seem to pick and choose which Scripture to fully accept as written.

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #87 on: August 11, 2010, 07:46:42 AM »
Dad tells Johnny   “ You do your home work and you can use the car Saturday.

Offline revmitchell

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #88 on: August 11, 2010, 08:45:05 AM »
How odd we do not choose to fully understand scripture so that we may place it in our predetermined context

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Re: why do Christians support Israel-???
« Reply #89 on: August 11, 2010, 01:08:47 PM »
How odd we do not choose to fully understand scripture so that we may place it in our predetermined context


That is a statement we should ALL be able to agree on!